Andre as a starter and He who has no bay
by RUDYYYY on Dec 18, 2009 10:00 AM PST
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I've loved what I've seen from Andre MIller as a starter. Without Andre starting we have weak first quarters, no ball movement, and shoot nothing but jumpers. With Andre in the starting lineup the ball moves well and we get lots of layups and points in the paint. That is what we need from our starting point guard is someone who can initiate the offense and get things moving because the way you get easy shots is by ball movement and player movement. We don't need a point guard to just pass the ball to B-Roy and post up at the three point line. It also seems like with Andre as the starting point the offense moves in closer to the hoop. Andre makes cuts, gets the ball down low, and makes sweet dishes to the open man for a layup which Blake would never be able to do because he would never wander to that spot on the floor in the first place. Not to mention that I believe our team is 8-1 with Andre Miller starting at point.
Jerryd Bayless killed it last night. He brought the scoring we have been looking for since all the injuries took away our bench scorers. He played point guard well and initiated the offense even while Blake was on the floor. He had 4 nice assists to go along with his 29 points. People have been saying for a while now that Bayless is not a true point guard and never will be able to learn it. He has good court vision, great speed and quickness, much better defense than Blake or Dre, can pass well, and has shown that he can play the role of initiating the offense also. He can stretch the floor with the jumpshot and showed us that even a point guard who attacks the rim can coexist with B-Roy since Brandon still had 27 points last night and it almost seemed as though Bayless opened things up for Brandon in the 4th quarter. He has all the skills to be a good point guard and is a great basketball player.
I feel like the coming of Jerryd Bayless has made Steve Blake expendable. There have been rumors lately about Blake being the player that the Blazers might be looking to trade instead of Steve Blake and I think that is a really good thing. Steve Blake is a good three point shooter, but turns the ball over too much in clutch situations. I like Steve Blake but I don' think he's the best thing for this team. We need a point guard who can run the offense, get us easier baskets, and mentor Jerryd Bayless on how to run a team and be an attacking point guard.
Jerryd Bayless has shown that he can contribute on the court, and has shown it on national television so every team in the league knows about it. His trade value is at its highest right now. Steve Blake is a niche player and there are teams in the league who would love what he brings to a team. Andre Miller is a good point guard and has a great record as the starter of this team, but he can't shoot from distance (against anybody but the Cavs) and makes the most money so we could probably get the most back for him. So I'm wondering what you other BEdgers think we should do with our point guard situation because it seems like something needs to be done soon.
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"has made Steve Blake expendable"
That’s pretty much the situation since September and what’s been giving Coach so much personnel confusion. Now, hopefully, it’s Pritchard’s problem. Because of our three active points, Steve has the least trade value.
Steve shot 4/7 from downtown last night.
But I do agree that he’s expendable. Maybe more so than Miller if we continue pushing the pace. That is Miller and Bayless’ game. Steve is probably better in half court sets. When things slow down and Blake is actually making shots (at least at a .400 clip) from downtown, he’s the better starting PG. But if Bayless stays consistent and especially after Rudy comes back, I’m forced to agree with you here. Miller for the time being is a better fit for last night’s pace vs. Phoenix. But in the words of Dwight Jaynes, “I’ll believe it when I see it” regarding us pushing tempo on a nightly basis.
"Sometimes that light at the end of the tunnel is a train."
-- Charles Barkley
I have noticed
The past two games with Miller starting, even with his limited minutes we’ve come out with a faster pace from the outset. Much more fluid basketball, from a spectator’s perspective far more enjoyable to watch for both aesthetic and scoreboard reasons. That is what the dude can do for your team if you let him play his game.
When Rudy comes back, he duplicates Blake’s outside shooting and I like him playing with Andre because of his movement off the ball. To me, Blake is basically expendable then, but what do I really know? My guess is from the Blake/Miller/neither trade options, it’s even money 3 ways at this point…
That was Phoenix and Sacramento though.
Phoenix always plays fast and only 6 teams in the league turn the ball over more than Sacramento. Neither team plays defense.
Keep your expectations low and you won't be disappointed.
Bayless had a great game
he won’t always score that well, but he should be able to avg 10-15 ppg if he is given the minutes. For now Miller, Bayless, and Blake is working, but once Rudy comes back, one of the 3 will have to be moved or benched, because Rudy is better than all of them at streching the court. Hopefully Bayless can continue to excel in the minutes he is given which will lead to the Blazers either moving Blake or sitting him in favor of Bayless. I agree with Sir Charles, this team has to find ways to get Bayless on the court, because he is better than Miller and Blake.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
Bayless is very good. He is NOT better than Miller. He was better than Miller last night
but Miller got us off to a great start and has better court vision than Bayless at this point as he has more experience. Bayless could REALLY benefit from a veteran point guard who KNOWS WHAT HE IS DOING. Bayless can CONTINUE to learn by watching and practicing with Miller..who runs the court when he is on the floor (when allowed to do so)
Especially if they make the playoffs. Miller is a competitor who is calm in clutch situations. Blake spazzes out MANY times when the heat is on.
I was at the Clippers game last year when he missed 4 out of 5 free throws at the end of the game…which put us into overtime..which we lost. Didn’t realize at the time he rarely goes to the free throw line…unlike Miller who went to the free throw line 500 times last year….Blake got there I believe 70 times.
Keep Miller to teach and add a veteran presence.
Yes, but for how long will Miller be better
Miller is 33 years old. Bayless is 21. Bayless needs more game time in order to learn.
by The Thinker on Dec 18, 2009 12:05 PM PST up reply actions
I am not calling for Bayless to start
Miller should stay there, but this year, Bayless is at least starting to prove that he is the best of the 3. His numbers are so far above Miller and Blake it is crazy. Bayless’s style fits with Roy more than Miller, and he defense while still improving is already better than Blake. If you offered any GM in the league the chance to take Blake, Bayless, or Miller, all 30 of them would take Bayless I suspect, because not only is he showing this year that he can play, but he has the potential to be so much more.
I want Miller to stay on this team for at least this year and next, because I believe he is very valueable for all the reasons you stated, but Bayless is the most talented of the 3, there is no doubt in my mind.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
miller needs to be a point guard
but when he has to bring the ball up, hand it off to roy and then go sit in the corner on a 20 second time-out, he is going to have a hard time being more useful than bayless.
Bayless has about averaged 1 point per min. played all season.
but it is good for this team to see how well Mills can play point also. Miller starting is good for this team now, but as said before Bayless will be the best guard to play with BRoy on a consistent basis. Steve was great to be out there in clutch time as he was hitting the 3 ball. My guess is that Mills will become a very fast point guard, Bayless and BRoy will become a dynamic duo taking turns driving and dishing. Yes Oden is out and we might not win the division but we will make a noise in the playoffs anyway, and 1 or 2
PG will be traded (Blake & Miller) if and only if our newest pickup turns out to be a gem in the ruff just as Bayless has always been and Mills will prove to be, but he must be able to play a post position, and or Juwan gets cut from playing time but is retained to help coach the younger bigs.
Once Rudy is back, how about this deal?
My trade idea is, depending on how things go in the next few weeks, Andre Miller for Jeff Foster OR Outlaw/Blake for Foster. Foster is a classic banger, doesn’t need the ball, gets rebounds and plays defense.
I’m not totally convinced of Indiana’s benefit in this deal, but maybe we could throw in a draft pick.
Then try to sign back Outlaw in the offseason, because his scoring off the bench is big IMO.
Hit it. Yes he did. Ohhhh yeah.
by Badalona Baddie on Dec 18, 2009 11:42 AM PST reply actions
Except of course we probably won't have caproom to get back Outlaw.
Hit it. Yes he did. Ohhhh yeah.
by Badalona Baddie on Dec 18, 2009 11:44 AM PST up reply actions
Hard to believe Outlaw would command more than the MidLevel this offseason with his injury.
That said, I would love to get Foster on the Blazers, trading Miller for him though is not an option, we need Miller on this team still. Blake/Outlaw for him would be a good trade, but Indy doesn’t seem to want to trade him for whatever reason, Denver tried to trade for him last year, and they wouldn’t do it, not sure if they have changed their mind since then.
If Bayless is able to use this time to truely break out this season, then Outlaw and Blake should be moved, because Bayless replaces Outlaw’s scoring, and Blake won’t have the minutes to be effective. Using them to get a true back up 4 would be the best, as we have Rudy and Batum coming back to play the 3 with Web.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
sure sounds great, but why not go for gold and trade roy for greg ostertag? the utah jizz still have his rights.
Please, for the love of all that is holy, please stop using the following: "Book it.", "FTW", "Epic" & "Fail".
...no seriously--stop.
I completely agree with you that Andre Miller should remain the starting point guard for all of the
reasons you stated…have already said this in a brief comment on another post. You expressed what I had to say much better than I did..I think Andre Miller has already taught Rex a thing or two..Bayless had some NICE passes that I did not see from him last year. Much more Miller style. I want Miller to stay. Add veteran calm and cool and court vision. Who loves to COACH. SOMEONE needs to.
Bayless is smart and has already learned..he also seemed calmer last night…I bet anything Bayless has been watching Miller, practicing with him.
I want Blake GONE. I feel the same about him as you. Role player. Rudy can spread the floor when Blake is gone. Blake’s departure will free up minutes for Rudy!!! Rudy will run WILD when he is back and PAIN FREE!!!
I’m SURE Rudy will drain 3s like a MADMAN when he is back and feeling GOOD!!!
Unless Bayless continues to hit his shots...
He will be on the bench again when Rudy returns. Nate prefers a true point. He started Blake over Miller. He still plays Blake for longer than Miller and Blake is often on the court at the same time as Miller.
Unless Blake is traded, Bayless will end up on the bench as soon as his shooting cools down. And it will cool down once other teams start paying more attention to him.
Since I do not see teams lining up for Blake (or Miller for that matter), I predict Bayless will once again end up on the bench and getting 10min per game or less.
what is sad
is every Blazer fan can actually see this happening. Hopefully Bayless can force the coaches hand by continuing to play well, or KP can force their hand by trading Blake for some front court help.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
Yes
I would be angry though regardless, because Steve has mostly stunk it up this season. Nate’s earn your minutes adage definitely doesn’t seem to apply to Steve.
Garden Variety Internet Denizen. Play Jerryd Bayless.
WORD UP.STAY.FRESCO
thats a positive. defenders will back off.
Please, for the love of all that is holy, please stop using the following: "Book it.", "FTW", "Epic" & "Fail".
...no seriously--stop.
I disagree
No one has been able to predict what Nate will do, but if Bayless earns his playing time, he’ll keep it. Rudy will just take more of Blakes playing time.
start paying moire attention to him....
Like teams pay attention to Monta Ellis? We see how well that works for them when he gets 30 points a night. Some guys can just score on anyone and I think Bayless has that quality.
These are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others. -Groucho Marx
when teams start paying attention to bayless
he should have the opportunity to pick up the assists like everyone who is a detractor seems to harp on. of course he isn’t finding great passing lanes, nobody doubles him, and when he goes to the lane, he’s still getting the shots and drawing fouls. hopefully when defenses start to follow him earlier (outside the key) he will be able to make some nice passes to the bigs or wings.
Who had a bigger impact last night?
Blake played 38 mins and was 4-7 from three and he is expendable? Who was spreading the floor for Bayless and Roy to operate in the fourth quarter? I agree that Rudy will be doing that when he comes back but Miller is the guy that doesn’t fit in. He has much higher trade value and just has not found his niche in Portland. Blake has.
Bayless is starting to show he can be the guy next to Roy in the backcourt for the next few years. Blake can still be a back up that can play an effective 20-30 minutes as Bayless and Rudy take over. Blazers should apologize to Miller and move him for another big man.
PTB Liberation Day - 2/10/04
by tssbro on Dec 18, 2009 12:27 PM PST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
I agree. As long as Blake gets some semblance of a shooting touch back, he fits the team better than Miller.
But Bayless would really, really have to prove his ascendance over the next few weeks for Miller to be traded.
Hit it. Yes he did. Ohhhh yeah.
by Badalona Baddie on Dec 18, 2009 12:30 PM PST up reply actions
Agree
I think a trade is still a few weeks away, maybe not even until summer. There will be time to sort out who should stay and who should go. I’m glad were getting a chance to see what Bayless can do. The most encouraging thing to me is that in addition to penetrating and getting to the line like we have seen before, he is hitting jumpers, playing under control, making smart decisions with the ball, and not committing dumb fouls at the top of the key by putting his hands all over guys with the ball. Those are the things I want to keep seeing from him on this road trip.
PTB Liberation Day - 2/10/04
Contrats to Blake because it was also his best game of the year too. Sad.
And 2 assists to go with those unbelievable 12 points in 38 minutes(Miller had a bad game and still managed 5 assists in half the time). Blake has been extremely expendable this year so the fact he had his first decent at best game of the year does not mean he’s played well. Miller has had plenty of games better than that and still hasn’t had a chance to show us how good he’s always been. Not to mention, Miller is worlds better at pushing the pace, seeing the court, and distributing. There’s a reason our record is so much better with Miller starting. Plus, Blake’s trade value is actually pretty decent due to his $4 million expiring contract.
This isn't a one time thing for Blake
He has struggled with his consistency this year but has had a number of games this year where he has been effective. I like Miller and agree that his strengths are different and even things the Blazers need but he is not fitting in. He might as the season progresses but I think he would bring back more than Blake in a trade. Usually trading an expiring contract means bringing back a bad contract the other team doesn’t want.
It is a bit early to get too set on trading any of them. They will need all three of them until they know they are going to get Rudy back which gives all three of them time to prove their worth. I think it is more likely that Blake starts hitting more consitently from the outside than Miller blends in with this team. Bayless looks like he may be what Blazer fans are hoping he will be: the future combo guard that can play with Roy in the backcourt.
PTB Liberation Day - 2/10/04
I disagree
As Timbo puts it, Blake is good at playing the Portland. But we have other guys who can do that — Rudy, Batum, Webster, even Bayless.
When Miller is in, we actually have an offense that moves. Miller has skills that no one else on this team have. Blake’s skills are all duplicated many times over.
Blake is a great guy, and I think he’ll be fine if he rides the pine once Rudy comes back. Or we can trade him. Whatever.
I definitely see Blake fading as Bayless and Rudy step up.
That is why I think it would be better to trade the guy who hasn’t really gelled with the team because they will get more back for him. But I also think they should trade him for his sake if they are not going to use him.
PTB Liberation Day - 2/10/04
Every time I see Blake on the floor my eyes start to bleed...not my quote but a good one...
I say let Miller start, play his game and let Rudy spread the floor…or Webster…or Bayless!!!! Get rid of Blake. That way Roy will be forced to play off the ball and maybe just maybe we will be able to run “the pick and roll” and other sets CORRECTLY. As long as Nate has Blake to go to, he will. Really it’s not Blake’s fault he does EXACTLY what the coach wants. Or better yet…let’s just get rid of NATE.
I just want to say
I love the two combo guard tandem of Roy and Bayless. If those 2 can be on the court together 30 minutes a game every night, they’ll be tough to stop. Very nice balance.
I like our depth at guard
Let’s wait to see how Rudy’s back is doing before moving anybody.
Miller is looking better. He was much fatter at the beginning of the season. Just look at the big hair Andre promos. He looked soft. He is starting to play into shape don’t give him away now.
I tend to agree with you
My comments are premature about trading Miller. I am starting to think it would be a good thing to do for him but I like having all three for Nate to pick from.
PTB Liberation Day - 2/10/04
The Miller effect?
or maybe the Bayless effect? Some numbers from the last two games, (small sample size alart!)
Blazers seasonal offensive eff = 106.0. good for about 12th in the league
Last two games offensive eff = 114.3 which would be tops in the league.
Clearly the Blazers have found a combo that works on the offensive side of the ball. Miller starting has gotten the team off to good starts, the same could not be said for Blake. However just as importantly, Bayless playing the 4th qtr poing guard minutes has produced highly efficient offense by the team. Based on offensive efficiency, we need to be seeing more Bayless, maybe 25-30 mins per game on his good nights, and less Blake especially when his shot is not falling. Hopefully Nate continues to coach more by feel than by strict rotations.
On defense the results are mixed.
Portland’s seasonal defensive eff = 101.3
Against Sactown it was 98.9 which is very good, top 4 in the league good.
Against Phx it was 109.7, which is bad, 2nd to last in the league bad. However Phx’s offense is much better than sactown. If I use each teams, (sactown and PHX) seasonal numbers and then see how they did against Portland it might give a better idea of how the teams defense was over the two games.
On the year Sactown’s offensive efficiency is 107.0, the Blazers held them to 98.9 good for a 8.1 difference in points per 100 possesions.
On the year Phx’s offensive efficiency is 111.5, the Blazers held them to 109.7 good for a 1.8 difference.
With the small sample size, these numbers can’t really be used for much of anything, but I thought I would throw them out anyways. It appears the line up change has helped the Blazers offense, and at the very least, doesn’t appear to have hurt their defense.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
I don't have any stats
But the Blazers were going against crappy defenses. Bayless may be able to attack the basket when Frye is the center, but can he do it when it’s Dwight Howard?
I mean to include that
Sacramento and Phoenix can make a lot of offenses look better after playing them.
true...
we all hope Bayless can continue his recent success tonight and on the rest of this road trip, that would solidify his spot in the rotation in my view.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
I hope he does well too
Orlando’s center will give him fits if Bayless can’t get draw some fouls.
by tominhawaii on Dec 19, 2009 10:30 AM PST up reply actions
Um... yeah
They did lose to Orlando. But read this after the fact. This depleted Blazers team just beat the Heat, the Mavericks, and the Spurs at home. Shut. Up.
I know I am conservative
…but I would rather move Andre (imo slightly better trade bait than Blake), move Bayless up to starter, and have Blake be the “steady” (as in non-flashy but fundamentally sound) back-up PG.
Andre is old and (call me crazy but) he just doesn’t fit into the “Rise With Us” team build that we have been growing here. His numbers are all good, there is just something chemistry-wise that doesn’t …. quite …..work ….
Blake is aging, his numbers are down (last night may signal a return to better stats), but he fits this team. Call it Blake goggles but, he has played with our “big three” since they have entered the league. There is a lot to be said there that doesn’t end up on the stat sheet.
Bayless is just an explosion waiting to happen. His fire is the kind any team would kill for. It can be, is, and will be contagious. Team wide.
He does have some shortcomings but the cure for every one of them is playing time. His best position is – on the court.
Rasta
we can still win........
by RastaMonsta on Dec 18, 2009 3:41 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
...and we still have Mills
We definitely want to keep that in mind!
kids got skills
we can still win........
First, Bayless will NOT be the one traded...
for the reason you state: all 30 GM’s would take him over Blake, and all but a team looking to win this year who has lost their PG, would take Bayless over Miller.. Which tells KP enough….. don’t move the kid…
Miller and Bayless play similar styles, and I would love to see Dre showing JB how to pass, especially to the bigs down low. I think Miller might be traded NEXT year, as an expiring contract, but unless a team loses their PG, I don’t think they’d be willing to part with a guy we’d want.
Blake ONLY has value to other teams because of his expiring contract. I can’t think of another team in the league where he would be enough of an upgrade over their current cast to trade us anybody we’d want. I think Blake’s shoulder is still not right – his shot often looks very un-fluid around the shoulder, like it’s not rotating right or something…
And we have Mills, who obviously has very limited trade value
I have to believe Blake is the one who will be moved. That $4M off a team’s salary for the free agent class of 2010 is huge…
Blake plays better team defense than a lot of point guards in the league
He has WAY more value than just an expiring contract.
Blake should be the odd man out here,
but I doubt that stubborn Nate will see it that way. Blake is a one-dimensional player, that’s hitting the 3. Problem is, he doesn’t take enough, make enough, or shoot them when we really need them most of the time. Miller is a far better all around PG than Blake and it’s not even close. Trade Blake and let Miller start getting plenty of rest from Bayless. That’s the winning formula here.
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