When is enough, Enough?!
by TeamChemistry on Dec 13, 2009 8:57 PM PST
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As a diehard Blazer fan, I have come to point of sheer disgust with how the Blazers play. Let me step back and say I have long quit writing about the Blazers woes, due to the over bias Blazer goggle wearers on BE. As much as I love Blazer fans, they have a difficult time seeing the trees from the forest. I love the Blazers, yet the goal of being a Blazer fan is seeing the team not only succeed, but rise to a level that can compete with the best.
Yet over the last 15 years I've watched time and time again how Blazer fans defend the players or coaches as if it was their child. Truth is I'm not a hater, but a basketball fan and former player. That being said, it is obvious that when a team doesn't play the right style of basketball, the end result sooner or later will be the same. As much as it was fun to see the Blazers succeed last year, I knew in my heart of hearts they didn't have the right style to succeed. They don't move the ball, they don't run, they don't get easy baskets and most of all they play horrible defense. Roy being the biggest culprit of them all, and to top it off, he usually is assigned to the weakest player on the opposing team.
What gets me frustrated the most about all this is that Coach Nate longingly requested veterans to be able to push the ball and play harder and smarter defense. But the more we see of this regime, the more we see that in fact the whole system is broken. Nate hasn't made all the players accountable, hasn't put in a system that moves the ball, gets easy baskets and breaks down the defense. Yet we have shipped away those young players who so famously failed under McMillians tutelage. I bring this up in part after seeing the recap of the Kings game against NO, to my surprise Sergio has the game of his life.
BENCH MIN FGM-A 3PM-A FTM-A OREB DREB REB AST STL BLK TO PF +/- PTS
Sergio Rodriguez, PG 24 9-14 2-4 4-4 0 2 2 5 2 0 0 1 +20 24
Yet when asked about it, he clearly points out that its the coaches that let him play, where he isn't trying to make a play while in the game. After reading this I just shook my head, again you see the result of a coaching style that is truly affecting our Blazers. I know there is all the hate for McMillian, yet I think he is a good guy, moral, righteous, upstanding citizen. Someone who I would want to lead this team, yet the reality is he doesn't know how to put players in a position to succeed.
What grinds on me the most of all this is that Pritchard has put together a very good team, assembled good players, role players and quality players. Yet if they aren’t used properly what can you do as a GM? What are you supposed to do when the guys move on to different teams and play well? Andre Miller in my opinion was a great signing for 7 million over 2 years, yet he is completely misused by the coaching staff and then “Blazer Fans” jump all over him. People, Andre Miller knows he can’t shoot the 3, he knows he can’t sit and watch, but what can he do if the coach says go to that corner?? When will people see that the system is what kills the Blazers, not the players? Andre Miller has been successful at every stop except the Blazers, so when will fans stop assuming a trade is the answer? The truth is that no trade will change the system; no trade will make the coach push the ball and hold people accountable on defense. One thing that was always said about defense, its 10% athleticism and 90% mental, and it’s so much truer especially in the NBA.
I don't know how much longer as a fan you can sit there and say, dang the guy knows what he's doing! I hear the defense for Nate, well out of time outs he is one of the best coaches, because last year they had the highest rated scores after a TO. What??!!! That determines that you’re a good coach?! Maybe I'm just not too smart and I'm like the guy who says, hey the prince isn't wearing any clothes, yet his buddies all tell him, no they just aren't smart enough to see him!
I don't want to go off, and sound like a ragging lunatic, but when does playing the right way come into the discussion of what makes a great coach? Where are the people going, hmm basketball isn’t supposed to be this hard, there is supposed to be flow, and movement and creativity. I hate to say this, but Dave from BE is like blinded completely by his RED BLAZER Goggles. I know he doesn’t want to bash on the players, coaches or what not, but when do you say this way of playing is not going to win much of anything. Yeah maybe it got 54 games, but that’s probably the most it will ever get and the reality is here. This is pretty much the Blazer team that won 54 games last year and yet it’s as if everyone is wondering what happened. The style of play is completely predictable and the easiest style to defend. If you can always set up your defense to guard the basket, its going to be a tough go, no matter if you have Greg Oden, LaBrone, Kobe, or Jordan. I know I’ll get a lot of homers who think I’m an idiot, but I’ve said my peace and to a point I hope it’s the beginning of the end, because what I see on game night is painful. I can’t watch, its like watching your sibling screw up, or your best friend who keeps doing something stupid, but he just won’t listen. You still love em, yet you just don’t want to watch them go down in flames.
(Side note - After reading a few of the comments, I will clarify that this isn't a post in anyway to say how good Sergio is. Rather this is to illustrate that no matter who the personel is, the system is flawed. When we did have Oden, he wasn't being used properly, nor was Rudy for that matter. The system itself doesn't create openings, any advantages, doesn't provide opportunities for players to excell. Yes they may do OK, but the overall success of the team is completely hindered by the system, or lack there of.)
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Enough has been reached
I think it is now official.
PTB Liberation Day - 2/10/04
by tssbro on Dec 13, 2009 9:35 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Sergio the next six games...
5pts, 4asst, 1to
12pts, 3asst, 2to
2pts, 2asst, 5to
5pts, 4asst, 0to
4pts, 4asst, 2to
5pts, 9asst, 4to
I’m sorry, but what exactly is Sergio doing differently in Sacramento that he did not do in Portland?
Founder of the "Crash Batumcoot" Movement.
by damir on Dec 13, 2009 9:47 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
he said in a half tiem interview
that it feels nice to have trust from your coach. this is something nate has never given our young PGs…poor bayless
Cloudy is Sergio. Makes other people look good, can’t score himself. -Cablinasian
Greg Postertag is probably wielding a jack hammer of a Wenis - AK1984
by Philthyanimal on Dec 13, 2009 10:27 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
However what is germaine is his performance, not what he says.
Sure one can cherrypick a couple of good performances by Sergio to make the point that all he needed was to be turned loose to do his thing. But as Damir illustrates, a couple of games a season does not make.
hakkaa päälle !
by timg56 on Dec 14, 2009 7:56 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I actually ran Sergio's YTD numbers like I did for Roy/Miller/Blake/Rex and he's having a very nice, very efficient year.
Bear in mind I am a strong Team Bayless supporter and a notorious Sergio hater.
He still turns the ball over a lot, but he’s discovered how to hit the 3-point shot at a decent clip this year and in terms of the two stats that I actually like: points per 36 minutes and points per possession used, he’s doing quite well.
I’ll have the specific numbers in my next sidebar thing, which will go up Wednesday morning.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Dec 13, 2009 11:30 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Where is Upper Left Corner?
Need him to point out that since Bayless only has a 17 PER and Sergio has 19, we traded the wrong guy.
by BoatRockinBatum on Dec 15, 2009 11:22 PM PST up reply actions
Changes from last year
Injuries
Miller
Roy and LA having to adjust to GO on offense instead of the other way around
I'm sorry
But excuse #3 would only hold water if our offense looked better after Oden’s injury… which I don’t think has happened at all
Good stuff. Couldn't agree more. I was on the fence about Nate all of last year during our coming out party, but it's pretty clear to me the players achieved everything last year, not Nate.
Nate requires players to play within his system. He seems uninterested in adjusting his coaching style to accommodate talent.
He wants shooters to spread the floor for Brandon while he grinds out points in ISO. He wants his bigs to shoot jumpers. He wants his defenders to switch on picks to allow a free flowing defense. He wants to slow the game down as much as possible it seems. He values low turnovers ( to a fault I believe ) over pushing the pace and placing pressure on the defense.
These aren’t necessarily bad traits, just not traits a championship team possesses. I think we need to part ways with him after this season. I think the most likely outcome at this point is just that his contract does not get re-upped, and we hire a new coach in the off-season. I think there is VERY LITTLE chance he gets fired. KP seems like a man who wants to take care of his people, and firing someone mid season is cold.
Oden fan for life
by dario argento on Dec 13, 2009 10:06 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
He already got a contract extension for next season,
so he either gets fired this summer or he is back next year.
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Dec 13, 2009 10:27 PM PST up reply actions
Oh. I did not know that. Lame.
Oden fan for life
by dario argento on Dec 14, 2009 5:55 PM PST up reply actions
with the kind of "severance" pay we are talking about..
not all that “cold”. He can pick the nicest beach he can find to warm himself on.
"Travis went all wang-dang diddly wubba SPROING wow-wow on everybody " Dave's recap, season opener
Thank You...
for straightforwardly addressing what I have felt also…PAIN at what I see. I would love to see these guys running under the Jack Ramsey system for example, or, dare I say Triangle Offense?
The Song Remains the Same
It is so painful watching this team have to claw for every little gap in a stagnant half-court while other teams beat down our overworked defenders through multiple picks and by running it back at us.
BTW — HAVE YOU SEEN HOW WELL PHILADELPHIA IS DOING THIS YEAR? … NOT!!!
The Sixers let Miller walk and they have gone from playoff team to cellar dweller.
FREE MILLER!
Ugh
This is in the rec’ed column? Sergio’s big game is the evidence? And we’ve got basically the same team from last year on the floor right now? Come on. Two of our biggest defensive pillars are out, as well as a pair of our offensive ones as well. I’m just shocked that this is the stuff we are going on.
It took my two years to come up with an avatar and sig
and this is the best I could come up with.
by einman77 on Dec 14, 2009 12:36 AM PST reply actions 3 recs
Not surprised this has gotten rec'd.
One thing BE has in abundance are fans who believe foremost in their right to bitch and find fault and secondly in the knowledge that they could make a living as basketball analysts, so broad and deep is their understanding of the game.
hakkaa päälle !
by timg56 on Dec 14, 2009 8:00 AM PST reply actions 6 recs
Well that's pretty much the point of fan sites...
I’m not sure exactly what you’re after
meanwhile as many of the BE’ers are paying customers, I wholeheartedly support their right to complain about the product
and since Steven A Smith made a living as a basketball analyst, pretty much anyone can. The only difference between you and Marc Stein is that Marc Stein has sources.
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on Dec 14, 2009 9:02 AM PST up reply actions
also which is worse, complaining or complaining about the complainers?
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on Dec 14, 2009 9:02 AM PST up reply actions
The worst
Complaining about the people who complain about the complainers.
PTB Liberation Day - 2/10/04
complaining about the people complaining about the people complaining about the complainers?
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on Dec 14, 2009 10:50 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm making an observation about the complaining.
Not complaining about it.
As for the purpose of fan sites, I imagine they serve all sorts of purposes. For me, one of the purposes is to increase information input level about the team. Dave’s insights, Ben’s links and presence covering the team, interesting and useful commentary from many of the posters here – all contribute to increasing my knowledge level about the team and the game.
Ok, who am I kidding. I really come here to impress Tom, hoping that some day he tell’s me I’m one of his top 10,000 contributors here at BE.
hakkaa päälle !
And I'm not complaining about your denial of
I’m making an observation about the complaining. Not complaining about it.
But I wish you would stop:
Not complaining about it.
#52
I think complaining about complainers (really, not a joke)
It starts the cycle of meta-discussion where substantive debate is less important that allegiances, conversation style, etc …it adds fuel to the fire … and finally says its more important to simply respond than to “advance” a conversation. This is not like our jobs where our attitudes may affect outcomes. Nothing I feel will improve or worsen the situation, so why get bent out of shape when others express their own helplessness in a way I would not? After a person complains about complainers the only positive thing I can do is say nothing or ignore the remark (and say something else). So really, meta-complaining begins a downward spiral that kills conversation altogether. It becomes a social war of attrition where the only ones left standing are people who enjoy being combative for its own sake.
by Sound_Automatic on Dec 14, 2009 4:36 PM PST up reply actions
Third.
Fan posts that make the same argument over, and over, and over.
Fourth: fans who offer statistical evidence that supports their points but opt for anecdotal “evidence” when the numbers don’t fall in line.
Keep your expectations low and you won't be disappointed.
Assuming that's directed at me, I'll rise to the bait...
There is no existing numerical measurement for defense which I accept. Some stat geeks have arcane and esoteric measurements which they feel are meaningful — but there is nothing out there which does the trick.
The old saying is that “statistics don’t lie but you can lie with statistics” — particularly so when one is touting obscure numerological incantations which have no demonstrated or demonstrable connection with WINS.
Offense can be charted, quantified, and correlated. Defense is problematic.
If one wants to make a point about defense, one MUST do it anecdotally.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
To an extent
Certainly, one can measure team defense statistically, to a degree. Individual defense is problematic, though individual statistics like blocked shots correlated with opponent points in the paint can certainly tell a story. So also a lot of steals may not tell us that a defender is a good defender, but they tell us that he is aggressive and can at least disrupt the offense, while very low steals probably indicates a relatively passive defender.
Standard statistics don’t help on defense that much, but the kind of stuff Synergy does in evaluating every single defensive play is useful.
#52
It wouldn't be that hard to put together a better methodology for evaluating individual D.
A lot of these guys on BEdge spend huge chunks of their day doing fanposts, looking at contracts and messing with the trade machine, reading articles by every prominent analyst, checking out other fansites, watching other NBA games, etc. I’m sure you’re spending a significant portion of your day writing engaging fanposts and finding interesting links to post.
There is no reason why several guys with varying biases can’t sit down with a DVR, analyze games possession by possession as jscot argues, and compare notes. Doing this would entail a literature review and an agreed-upon methodology. Perhaps looking at Synergy’s studies would be a good place to start. It would be a complicated process, but is a lot more doable than answering a lot of sociological research questions. One can lie with statistics, as you argue. But if the various factions agree upon a set of criteria for evaluating games and all play a part in compiling the measurements, it alleviates this problem somewhat.
And yeah, that one stuck out in my mind because a couple hours before you posted your blog, Ben posted a synopsis of Synergy’s study that indicated Blake’s defense wasn’t as bad as a lot of posters think. (This is an think tank whose only interest is to provide teams with accurate information.) It also had a lot of good things to say about Jerryd Bayless’ offense. While fans didn’t question the latter set of conclusions, they were trying to shoot holes in the former based on sample size, etc. This is instructive, since fans were lauding Bayless’ efficiency 5 games into the season. (A lot of fans argue, persuasively, that Bayless’ minutes are inadequate given his play this year.) I didn’t read many critical comments about sample size from the Bayless camp at the time and there were plenty of recs. It struck me as glaringly inconsistent.
This post is getting Tolstoy-esque so I won’t get into how certain defensive stats could be made into more salient measurements by dividing them into different sub-categories, but you can imagine the possibilities.
Keep your expectations low and you won't be disappointed.
So true.
As if they can really coach and play better than them.
by ireallylikejerrydbayless on Dec 14, 2009 5:49 PM PST up reply actions
Take yourself back to October
If I told you we would start the season with Joel, LA, Howard, Cunningham, and Webster as our frontcourt rotation, how many games would you expect the team to win? Seriously? I know that is only the past few games but we are playing minutes with 3 PGs with Miller at the SF position. It is difficult for me to overlook the injuries at this point.
PTB Liberation Day - 2/10/04
I don't think people are POed about lack of wins as much as the obvious issues with the team that nobody will correct
ie. poor effort a lot of the time, non-producing players playing big minutes, lack of chemistry etc etc
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on Dec 14, 2009 10:52 AM PST up reply actions
Seriously?
I would expect them to go about .500 with that front line. – Elgin
Travis Outlaw, the Funnel Cake of the Blazers
Once Oden went down
The upside for this season changed. It had already dropped with Batum out. Now with Rudy out as well we have a serious roster imbalance. Although Nate’s system is flawed at times it is more about personnel now than anything else. That said they need to get the ball into the post more to LMA….how much and how often depends on its affect on Lamarcus. He isn’t put together like Oden or even a Boozer type player. Post play can nick up a big man pretty good.
The best thing that could happen IMHO is for a trade that nets us a proven SF while getting rid of Blake, Web, and possibly Outlaws contract. That way Batum won’t need to come back early and he will have a vet to play behind a couple of seasons to learn from. Bayless and Mills could play behind Miller and learn from a true PG. Nate and Roy would be forced to live without Blake. Possibly ending the lean on the iso play to Roy addiction which would lead to a LOT more movement in our offense.
O.R.
by the way
Sergio is still not very good.
He actually sort of is, offensively speaking and being in mind that he's a 15 minutes per game backup.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
Completely agree. It does all start with coaching which I feel is HORRIBLE.
McMillan should have started Dre from the beginning. He SAID players would earn their minutes. Maybe he should have clarified and said " EXCEPT at the point guard position,where I will start Steve Blake no MATTER WHAT HE DOES ON THE FLOOR." I don’t blame Blake. I feel sorry for him. As another blogger put it: I think Steve has a severe case of “what am I doing starting over a clearly more talented and qualified player LOOKING OVER HIS SHOULDERITIS.” and Ande Miller should be allowed to not only START but run the floor when he starts. I am so sick of the style of play that McMillan dictates. The Blazers have been hurt by injuries. This, to me, makes it even more imperative that they are allowed to get EASY buckets. Brandon will have more ENERGY to run if he isn’t continually put in iso situations where he has to overcome the double team….ughh….great post. It’s not a whiny post. It just points out what the Blazers need to do to have FUN…PLAY and possibly win!!! They certainly have the talent to do so..now all they need is the coaching staff who is capable of allowing this to happen.
To be fair Andre barely outplayed last seasons Blake
Nate gave Blake some time to find himself and he didn’t. Miller will likely start and Bayless will back him up but thats no panacea. There are times when Miller works well in the offense like in the Heat game where he was making offball cuts to the basket instead of shooting threes but thats defendable. Bayless is the only posible solution at PG and he fits well in Nate’s scheme but Nate wants vets. Well the rubber has met the road. Like many great coaches (I’m not saying Nate is great) Nate is slow to change but he knows he needs to change.
Count me in on the frustrated bandwagon...
What wins championships? Defense first, right? And ideally, a defense that feeds the break, which is a staple of nearly every championship team. Ball movement, and players moving without the ball to create easy chances. These are the hallmarks of champions. Please tell me, has Nate led us to succeed at ANY of these areas? I don’t think so.
To be fair, some of the blame lies with KP. Don’t get me wrong, I’m a huge fan, he’s done a great job dumping the Jail Blazers and getting good quality guys in here. But unfortunately he’s concentrated too much on flashy offense (Roy, LMA, Rudy, Bayless, Mills), and not enough on D (Oden… perhaps Pendergraph?). So, point 1: KP needs to get some defenders.
But Nate, while he constantly seems to TALK about pushing the ball, either doesn’t know how to coach that, or is letting his loyalty to Blake sabotage this team’s ability to run the Break. Blake is perhaps the worst PG in terms of running the break I’ve ever seen. Other than long passes to LMA, he NEVER completes a fast break. Drive to the hole, don’t stop at the 3-point line! (It’s a wonder my TV screen still has a picture tube the number of times I throw something at Blake running the break…)
And then, finally, is our wonderful cough offense… The BRoy iso may be good for one hoop you really need, especially if it hasn’t been used for every play in the 4th quarter (a bit of a surprise, maybe once in a while, Nate?) But “doing the Portland” will NEVER win a championship.
We need a completely new offense that features a point guard who knows how to pass to the post, and an inside out attack based on LMA or Greg getting the ball on the low block. I’m afraid that I no longer believe that Nate can, or even wants to, coach that style.
Our coaching staff is preventing us from reaching the next level
They are completely ignorant to the situation and have huge heads.
WHY IS BLAKE GETTING MORE MINUTES THAN EVERYONE EXCEPT ROY? Game after game, he continually gets rewarded for his stagnant offense and sub-par defense. He hasn’t done anything to prove he is a point guard; rather, he has proven to be a guard that other teams can take advantage of. Blake knows he isn’t playing well, but the coaching staff is trying to ignore that.
Do not trade Bayless!
wow, I'm really impressed by the rec's this post has aquired
it really seems like BE is beginning to split. not too long ago, if anyone had the stones to post this there would be the normal list of “regulars” ready to pooh pooh it into obscurity.
now I see there are others who support the “I can love the blazers but be critical at the same time” movement. don’t get me wrong, I don’t like any post that isn’t well thought out, but its good to see something new besides the ol’ rah rah support our troops fanposts.
The Blazers as a whole are far more like my wife than like me in the sense of their physicality on defense.
-Dave
Really?
its good to see something new besides the ol’ rah rah support our troops fanposts.
I can’t remember when the last time I saw one of those was. Of course, after last game, it’s a stretch for me to remember much of anything…
πεντήκοντα δύο
Things'll be good again
That’s not rah rah rah. Its just hard to see how this team, depleted as it is, can continue to lose. Even though we have not won (except once) since Greg has been injured, it seems that the players got back to understanding roles a little more, which has to be good for a few wins. And while its true that we no longer can compete with the Juggernauts most other teams in the league have their share of problems, too, and will be injured. For me, the start to this season has really driven home in my mind just how much we miss steady production (at both ends of the floor) from the 3 spot. Get better soon, Nic. I just love watching basketball and the Blazers have served up some pretty pooey squads compared to this one in the last decade … It makes watching to current decline a little more bearable when I remember I’m not paying money to see Ruben Patterson or Zbo or Darius or (blech lllsmmemlsdkf) …. sorry, caught a little bit of barf in my mouth.
by Sound_Automatic on Dec 14, 2009 5:33 PM PST up reply actions
Miller
This article makes an important point relative to those of us calling for less Blake and more Miller and Bayless. The strengths of neither of those two can be fully exploited in our current “Portland Style Offense”.
"but what can he do if the coach says go to that corner?? "is an excellent summary. Depressing, but an excellent summary.
then we could negative rec this comment as well.
Land Rondo.
"He needs to realize that he can't stop every shot, especially from a smaller and offensively potent player. Get your hands up, make him shoot it over you, but let him shoot every once in a while. They score a little but you stay in the game a lot. And when you stay in the game...smashy smashy!" Dave on Greg Oden
by loyal_blazer on Dec 14, 2009 11:35 PM PST up reply actions
Great post
I agree with you. There are many fans who defend and defend coach Nate. I have been using the analogy that a worker who has been working with a company for 20-30 years could definitely tell you whether or not a supervisor is doing a horrible, mediocre or great and innovative job.
The argument that we are just dumb fans is mute. Nate has been losing chess-games for over 2 years now. Fans from Seattle now following the Blazers have been saying they are seeing more of the same, a broken system.
I would imagine these same type of fans who don’t believe 20-30 year vets of watching the game have any ability to judge a coach are same types of peoples who do not accept that Greg Oden might need help outside of his trainers. They simply don’t accept the fact that things may be overlooked. They are both ignoramus stances. It is PROBABLE that Greg Oden will never become what we all hoped and that we waste an exorbitant amount of time on coach Nate(so long as the team outgrows his unwavering implementation of a broken systems).
Thank you for the post, I agree wholeheartedly.
Land Rondo.
"He needs to realize that he can't stop every shot, especially from a smaller and offensively potent player. Get your hands up, make him shoot it over you, but let him shoot every once in a while. They score a little but you stay in the game a lot. And when you stay in the game...smashy smashy!" Dave on Greg Oden
IT IS PROBABLE,
if the team adopts the stances that there are no better physical therapy options for Greg or coaches/philosphies that are superior to Nate.
Land Rondo.
"He needs to realize that he can't stop every shot, especially from a smaller and offensively potent player. Get your hands up, make him shoot it over you, but let him shoot every once in a while. They score a little but you stay in the game a lot. And when you stay in the game...smashy smashy!" Dave on Greg Oden
by loyal_blazer on Dec 14, 2009 11:38 PM PST up reply actions
Interesting analogy...
Generally a supervisor does have more knowledge at his/her disposal than the worker. Not because the worker is dumb, but because the supervisor is directly engaged in meetings that include numbers and variables that the worker is not given access to. Generally, a management team sees a much bigger and hopefully more complete picture than the workers.
I would think it wise to balance the opinion that the worker has of the supervisor after 30 years with the opinion of the supervisor’s supervisor. And vice versa. One perspective is not a complete picture of that person’s ability.
So to apply that to Nate and the Blazers current position:
To say that it is an ignoramus position to defend Nate is looking at one perspective without considering another. The “broken system” idea is an opinion of a loud group of fans. It has some merit and should certainly be debated. But the “broken system” did lift a team from 21 to 54 wins and help them earn homecourt advantage in the playoffs. It did pretty well for a “broken system.” Yes, it is debatable whether Nate is the guy to lead the team forward but I would think there is some evidence over the past year or two that Nate might actually be able to pull this team together. If KP is upset with Nate, he is certainly playing that close to the vest. He has been nothing but supportive of Nate since he has been here in spite of the “not on the same page” opinions of some fans and media folk. Why offer extensions to a guy you don’t share values and a vision for success with?
PTB Liberation Day - 2/10/04
Bad analogy.
Fans are not workers. They are customers. Like his system or not, his employees (players) have generally been happy with his coaching and management of the group dynamic and his bosses seem to concur.
Keep your expectations low and you won't be disappointed.
Thank you, well thought out. I still stick to what I am saying.
Defending Nate is fine. The ignoramus portion comes from the belief that 20-30 year fans have no ability to critique Nate’s job coaching. 20-30 years of seeing 30 different teams’ coaches and we still have do not have the abilty to say whether or not one looks subpar at the moment or for the last couple years for that matter.
That broken system has had the benefit of adding Roy, Aldridge, Oden, Batum, Bayless and many others. Many NBA coaches would be able to go from 21 to 54. That same system was slow to the punch in the playoffs when home-court was won. Slow to make adjustments, even the obvious ones(fronting Yao).
As far as KP….hey every overpaid, bust, player/coach has been signed or extended by someone. Does not mean that someone did not have drunk or coherent thoughts about that person before making an offer.
Land Rondo.
"He needs to realize that he can't stop every shot, especially from a smaller and offensively potent player. Get your hands up, make him shoot it over you, but let him shoot every once in a while. They score a little but you stay in the game a lot. And when you stay in the game...smashy smashy!" Dave on Greg Oden
it's never enough
i’m still going to watch tonight’s game…and the next one…and the next
but you can rest assured i will complain about them all
Blazer Fan
Good Post
I have been thinking this all season. Bayless has not been used to his potential. Miller isn’t being used the way he wants to be. I do think that Outlaw and Rudy’s strengths have been used well. I have always thought that if Outlaw got traded, he would be a much better player, and the same goes for Bayless. But Nate seems to be stubborn and unbending about many things, particularly playing time. How many times does he bench the guy with the hot-hand until he cools off?
It's Brandon Roy's world and we're only renting space We don’t like him—we’re only on his side so he doesn’t dunk on us in front of our co-workers, wives, girlfriends, mistresses and children.
-Correction It’s B Rex’s world and Brandon’s just keeping it warm until The Coming
by OhOhOden
by SandyTrailBlazer on Dec 15, 2009 6:09 PM PST reply actions
Nice Post
I think a lot of the players on this roster could and would flourish under different different offensive systems. Imagine Aldridge as a Phoenix Sun! Wowsers! Roy as a Spur?
Portland's PG of the Future - MORE John Wall
Treat people well because Karma can hit you at any second.
You've Got to be kidding...
Right?
Right?
No?
I cannot believe the number of talent evaluators, and coaching experts that are on this string. KP should fire Nate immediately and hire TeamChem or loyal_blazer for the job..
NOT!!!
There is too way too much typing for me to list all the evidence and examples that People/Fans/Whatever around here are just… (I’m trying to think of a nice word for uninformed, oblivious, provincial, or just dumb)
For those who think Nate is not an excellent coach.. Just look at what he has done with this extremely young, untested, inexperienced team.
1. Over 50 wins in a conference stacked with excellent teams… Several established
teams possessing proven, veteran talent. The west was, and is very very strong.
2. The Blazers point differential whenever most of the team has been healthy enough to
play.
3. Nate sets an example of maturity, professionalism, and hard working attitude.
4. Look at the locker room atmosphere and behavior.
5. Try listening to the credit his peers bestow on him… Or do you guys think you are
smarter than all the other coaches & GMs in the league. Everyone seams to think J.
Vangundy is the greatest (and I’ll agree that he is one of the best) He thinks Nate is
an excellent coach. Ask Mike K. what he thinks of Nates coaching, or are you guys
smarter than him too?
6. Loyal_blazer, Why don’t you have a job in the NBA? Is it because you are better at
hiding on the internet, and taking shots at people who have actually made it to the top
level of their profession. And the rest of the shit-talking idiots on here should try being
an NBA coach.
Okay
Year before Nate: 27 wins
Nate’s first year: 22 wins
Draft Roy/LMA: Wins go up each year
I mean? It makes sense doesn’t it? You draft an AS and a possible AS and you start winning games. Who is to say Nate has anything to do with this? The flip side is of course who is to say he doesn’t have anything to do with it…
by BoatRockinBatum on Dec 15, 2009 11:25 PM PST up reply actions
I get the feeling that Nate is stubborn.
I think he coaches quite well overall. I can understand his apparent allegiance to Roy, as much as he has done for the team. Sure, give Roy what he wants – if it works. When it doesn’t, remind him that you are the coach. Do what you have done well in the past and play the best players when they are playing well. Give the young, un-proven talent a shot when the proven talent is off. Take advantage of individual players’ strengths, and mainly ADJUST when $#*! happens. I know, I really, really wish we hadn’t been hit so hard by the injury bug, but we have. It’s time to move on and play with what we’ve got, and ADJUST. And yes, go through LA and Roy, and utilize the supporting cast around them. Let them do what they can do, not what you or Roy wishes they could do. I seem to remember a post by Ben (Synergy Sports and the Blazers) that noted how much better Roy was off the screen and on catch-and-shoot plays. Can we maybe put Miller in there (why else did we get him?) and move the ball a bit and just see what happens? Maybe leave Bayless in there when he’s scoring, EVEN IF (and when) he gets a couple turnovers? Perhaps push the tempo on offense (again, remind Brandon who the coach is) some more.
I guess my key point here is to ADJUST. That should be the the word of the season. We are not the team we thought we’d be this season, so ADJUST.
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