Andre and Greg

by thomasikehara on Dec 1, 2009 2:09 PM PST

"He's a big breath of fresh air for me. When he comes into the game, he's like, 'G.O., we are going to run a play for you so you can try to get the other big man in foul trouble.' That definitely puts a big smile on my face. I turned my head and had a big smile."-Greg Oden

Greg Oden is most effective with Andre miller on the floor. He has a +59 with him, which is higher than with anyone else. Andre playing with Greg is very crucial to his development and I think should play together as much as possible. Currently, Nate takes Oden out early in the first so he can play with Andre in the second unit. While this makes some sense, that point in the game when Oden leaves is when team have been making their runs.

Originally, I just wanted Miller to start, but after looking at the stats, a +/- combo including Blake makes up the top 3.

1. Blake/Roy

2. Blake/miller

3. Blake/Aldridge

With 2 of those guys being starters, it wouldn't make sense to bench him.

Another option would be to start Joel and have Greg come off the bench with miller. I really can't imagine doing this.

One more option would be to bring miller in early instead of Joel coming in early for Oden. Obviously, this can't be done if Greg is in foul trouble. The blazer most effective 3 person combo is Roy, miller and Blake, so bringing in miller for Marty early in the game (unless Webster in stroking and Blake is, well, not).

This substitution gives us out top 9 two play combos on the floor at the same time:

PLAYER 1	PLAYER 2	TEAM	+	-	+/-	MIN	+/- /MIN	G

S. Blake	B. Roy	Trail Blazers	1,050	-954	96	514:01	.186
A. Miller	S. Blake	Trail Blazers	469	-385	84	220:58	.380
S. Blake	L. Aldridge	Trail Blazers	904	-828	76	449:30	.169
A. Miller	B. Roy	Trail Blazers	766	-697	69	375:03	.183
A. Miller	L. Aldridge	Trail Blazers	701	-635	66	349:06	.189
A. Miller	G. Oden	Trail Blazers	544	-485	59	264:32	.223
L. Aldridge	B. Roy	Trail Blazers	1,096	-1,043	53	546:36	.096
B. Roy	G. Oden	Trail Blazers	829	-777	52	407:49	.127
S. Blake	G. Oden	Trail Blazers	691	-642	49	341:11	.14

If Greg is in foul trouble, than we have to go with what he have been doing.

Poll

What do you think is the best way to get Miller and Oden together?

Do what we do, bring Joel in early reguardless of Oden's fouls or play

1 votes

Start Miller over Blake

111 votes

Start Miller in a 3-guard lineup

3 votes

Start Joel

5 votes

Bring in Miller early for Blake, leave Greg in

28 votes

Bring in MIller early for Webster, leave Greg in

3 votes

Miller and Oden playing together is not important

2 votes

other

1 votes

Roy and Miller is our 4th best combo? hmm

4 votes

Hinirch

8 votes

#25

2 votes

I hate basketball, and thus don't understand this poll or the post

1 votes

I hate the Blazers, and only visit this blog because of the exeptional blogging by Dave and Ben

0 votes

I'm a Heat fan just doing some advance scouting on Blazers blogs

0 votes

I don't have an opinion, but I love to vote

15 votes

184 votes | Poll has closed

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Comments

nice poll

seriously, though, while I’ve been guilty of this myself, I think we should be a little wary of reading too much into the plus/minus data this early. We ran the three-guard lineup agaist a bunch of really bad teams in a row, and I think that experiment is skewing the plus/minus data.

I agree with the general thrust of your thinking, though. Personally, I think Miller should start and Roy should spend the first part of the game working on his off-the-ball game (which he needs to develop) while Miller runs the offense. I think McMillan should try to play Oden longer in the first quarter and give Roy his rest early. Roy can then come back in during the slow stretch of the second quarter, when Miller is resting, and be more aggressive offensively. Roy is the best guy on our team at creating his own shot. He needs to be in the game during the stretches when we have few offensive weapons. That’s the time when he should be aggressive offensively.

www.blazerguy.com

by Blazer Guy on Dec 1, 2009 2:21 PM PST reply actions

I agree!!! Why doesn't McMillan just start Miller??????!!!!!

by Natsthecat on Dec 1, 2009 2:24 PM PST up reply actions

esp considering the opposition for the 3 guard lineup. someone needs to make an adjusted +/- that accounts for strength of schedule

Please, for the love of all that is holy, please stop using the following: "Book it.", "FTW", "Epic" & "Fail".

...no seriously--stop.

by nima on Dec 1, 2009 2:32 PM PST up reply actions

This. The 3-guard lineup included Blake and has great numbers because it played against bad teams.

You can measure skill and talent with your eyes, but productivity is shown through statistics.

by austinpwnz on Dec 1, 2009 5:03 PM PST up reply actions

I think Miller should start and Roy should spend the first part of the game working on his off-the-ball game

Agreed, but I would edit that sentence to read

I think Miller should start and Roy should spend the first part of each half working on his off-the-ball game

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Dec 1, 2009 3:45 PM PST up reply actions

Stats

Stats only go so far. Most of these stats are with teams who have not played well this season.

by Natsthecat on Dec 1, 2009 2:22 PM PST reply actions

What I find most disconcerting about the whole Miller not starting thing

Is that at the beginning of the season, McMillan clearly stated that the starting position would be based on merit, meaning the person who performed better would get the job.

To my recollection, Miller performed better in pre-season.

Blake got the nod.

Through 19 games this season, Miller has clearley perfomred better.

Blake still gets the nod.

This is worrisome in that if McMillan continues to make the “comfortable” decision in sticking with Blake, he risks losing the trust of his players for saying one thing and doing another.

"Ain't nothin' in this world for free."

by Arby on Dec 1, 2009 3:00 PM PST reply actions

Also risks future Free Agents having second thoughts about playing here

Blazer Fan

by leeroyjenkins on Dec 1, 2009 3:01 PM PST up reply actions

in fact in yesterday's Chris Sheridan chat, he called Miller the biggest offseason bust over Hedo

Of course Miller came at around half the price, so his opinion is debatable but still it’s not Miller’s own doing that he’s being labeled the biggest FA bust so far

Blazer Fan

by leeroyjenkins on Dec 1, 2009 3:02 PM PST up reply actions

Has this guy seen the Spurs play this year?

by Sean M on Dec 1, 2009 3:59 PM PST up reply actions

To be fair

Miller was not in the best shape even early int he season, he looks like a different guy now. But maybe that is just the haircut.

"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man

by PDXBuckeye on Dec 1, 2009 4:43 PM PST up reply actions

I do agree that we need to pair up oden and Miller more and early

Miller should start. I posted my idea on rotations earlier. In that post I have Oden and miller each going 32 minutes a game working exactly the same shifts all game.

"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man

by PDXBuckeye on Dec 1, 2009 4:41 PM PST reply actions

I'd like to see "Start Miller and Fernandez" option

Kinda curious how many people would pick that. I probably would.

by xedubx on Dec 1, 2009 4:42 PM PST reply actions

you talking Miller, Roy, Fern, Ald, Oden?

I just don’t like that deffensive matchup out of the gate…

"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man

by PDXBuckeye on Dec 1, 2009 4:45 PM PST up reply actions

no

he means bring Roy off the bench for either Webster or Fernandez – Elgin

Travis Outlaw, the Funnel Cake of the Blazers

by 22baylor on Dec 1, 2009 4:55 PM PST up reply actions

Actually, I meant Miller, Fernandez,, Roy, LA, Oden

But I guess we could try both?

by xedubx on Dec 3, 2009 3:01 PM PST up reply actions

If we're going to start a 3 guard lineup, I want it to be this one.

You can measure skill and talent with your eyes, but productivity is shown through statistics.

by austinpwnz on Dec 1, 2009 5:06 PM PST up reply actions

Miller, Roy, Rudy, LMA, Oden is probably the best/most talented lineup the Blazers have

The idea of starting Webster and bringing Roy off the bench is also pretty interesting though. Miller, Rudy, Webster, LMA, Oden is a pretty good lineup, and Roy could make up for the lack of offensive firepower on the rest of the bench.

by trk on Dec 1, 2009 5:48 PM PST up reply actions

Effectiveness.

I agree having Andre in does wonders for Greg’s game. Obviously, Greg thinks so too. I think more troubling than anything is that Roy hasn’t had a similar impact on Oden’s game. Roy and Oden are in it for the long haul. Miller is not. Also, this quote is the first I’ve read from Oden singling out any particular player that he was fond of. Last year, Greg (to some people’s eye) seemed aloof from the rest of his teammates. I didn’t get the feeling that he was “tight” with Roy or Aldridge. It’s interesting that a vet like Dre is demonstrating how better an offense it would be to go to the big man first. Problem is, the other younger players haven’t bought into this (yet?),

by Stryder9 on Dec 1, 2009 5:04 PM PST reply actions

If you want to get Greag and Dre time together

I would continue to pull Greg early with Joel, then bring Dre and Greg in together with the second unit

""He's (Andre Miller's) a big breath of fresh air for me," Oden said. "When he comes into the game, he's like, 'G.O., we are going to run a play for you so you can try to get the other big man in foul trouble.' That definitely puts a big smile on my face."

by Tiparillo on Dec 1, 2009 5:27 PM PST reply actions

Just start Miller. He doesn't seem to get lit up nearly as much as Blake because he is stronger. He also gets Oden involved.

Roy needs to start playing better.

by BRoyInThe4th on Dec 2, 2009 2:05 AM PST reply actions

It's painfully obvious that Miller is better.

But god forbid we put our best players in the starting lineup! At least Blake is barely playing after he starts though. But yeah, no more having Blake in while Martel goes out first..they need to have Blake leave when Miller comes in. And never play him again.

Start Miller. Trade Steve Blake.

by twiggs on Dec 2, 2009 6:52 AM PST reply actions