The Blazers NEED to make a move at or before the trade deadline...
by Aaron Sass on Nov 8, 2009 2:12 AM PST
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PrintThe Trail Blazers have way too much talent on their roster. They have a great young player in Jerryd Bayless who isn't getting on the floor. Though he did get some minutes in the San Antonio game and he looked good. I think if the Blazers continue to keep Bayless on the bench then they'll have trouble keeping him happy and eventually they'll have to get rid of him. Which, I think would be a big loss because I think someday Bayless is going to be a star in the NBA.
But at the deadline or before they'll have to move somebody. I would prefer it to be Blake or Outlaw. Not because I don't like those two. I love them. But it would make the most sense to get rid of one of those guys. I think you could trade Outlaw for a good veteran power forward who can bang inside. If the Blazers can get a backup 4 who can play with his back to the basket then I think that will help the Blazers tremendously. If you could team a banger at the 4 spot with Pryzbilla at the 5 I think you could potentially have a very good second unit. Outlaw is a jump shooter who should be a slasher because he's a great athlete. If Travis wanted to he could average 7 to 9 rebounds a game but he neglects to crash the boards. Portland doesn't need any more shooters on that second unit. Especially if you're thinking long term. When Batum comes back you'll have Martell and Rudy on that second unit. They're great shooters. If you team them up with a post presence they could be dangerous.
One of the main reasons I say the Blazers need to make a move is to keep Rudy happy. Rudy is an extremely talented player and in the long run I think he'll help the Trail Blazers much more then Outlaw will. You don't want to make Rudy unhappy to the point where he contemplates going back to Spain. Rudy could be starting on most of the teams in the NBA and I'll bet he knows that. If Nate only plans to play him 20 minutes a night then that will cause trouble. Rudy is too talented to only play 20 minutes a night. If you trade away Blake or Outlaw you could open up more minutes for Rudy, Martell, and Andre Miller. The Blazers can't mess around with a 10 man rotation in the later stages of the season and in the playoffs because people won't know their role. If your players don't know their role by the postseason then you're in big trouble.
To sum in up I think the Blazers will be in big trouble if they don't make a move. It won't show up on their win/loss total but it will cause trouble in the locker room. If they could package Bayless and Outlaw or Bayless and Blake for a good strong power forward that doesn't need a bunch of minutes then they'll be in great shape. But if not, their could be trouble in Portland.
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I bet this is the 100th time I've read a post just like this on BE
I have a problem with this line:
If they could package Bayless and Outlaw or Bayless and Blake for a good strong power forward that doesn’t need a bunch of minutes then they’ll be in great shape.
There is no such thing as a good strong power forward that doesn’t need a bunch of minutes. The only players that don’t need a bunch of minutes are scrubs.
by tominhawaii on Nov 8, 2009 3:12 AM PST reply actions 4 recs
Tom, you have been on this site since the beginning of time...
…and you are wise. “The Trail Blazers have way too much talent on their roster.” is like saying “My gun has way too many bullets loaded into it”. Come on over to my basement, we can discuss…
....formerly GonzoFan. Now, this has been a message from "The People's Alliance to Continue to Encourage Greg Oden on his Path to Dominance"
by bforsythe on Nov 8, 2009 5:07 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
These posts are looking far less convincing
As the blazers are winning and playing ten deep. Bayless is shining in his low minute reserve roll. The three guard lineup has produced the offensive ball movement we needed to recover the offensive juggernaut of last season.
My bar
Has far too much fine wines and spirits.
"My shoulder is OK. And away we go." -- Nic Batum
"wang-dang diddly wubba SPROING wow-wow" -- Dave
Ah Tom, you're so grumpy lately!
It’s the 100th time you’ve read it because it’s generally true. Don’t make people feel bad for having an epiphany regardless of timing.
Let me translate his post:
“We [the Blazers] need to prioritize the players on the roster who will get more minutes rather than continue to dilute talent with dribbles of minutes…
“My own personal sense of prioritization suggests Blake and Outlaw as the most expendable of very good players…
“I think a reasonable trade is a veteran power forward that doesn’t demand minutes because the apex of his career has passed [I assume Aaron Sass thinks Howard by himself is insufficient].”
There’s nothing wrong with that line of reasoning and none the worse for having been said before. In fact, seeing it repeated help create some sense of validity (or, conversely, Group Think).
Buck Williams for the hall of fame
I think the deal might be
that this same “solution” gets tossed out over and over and over and over and over again. Does somebody every day join BE in order to post the same exact thread that’s already been put out there a hundred times, as if it’s some sort of epiphany?
"I can shoot with my left hand, I can shoot with my right hand, I'm amphibious".
I think of BEdge like a university
People probably do join every day trying to “join the conversation.” I think the Oregonian and mainstream press in general is driving an ever-increasing number of people to Blazers Edge every day.
But, just like teaching English Literature 101, it means that you have to listen to a Freshman come to the epiphany that struggles of the Montague and Capulet family in Romeo and Juliet can serve as a metaphor for other class and race struggles and gasp may have even been an inspiration for West Side Story.
It’s part of the learning process. Or an initiation process if you will.
It’s hard for folks who’ve been involved with the BEdge for years to hear this stuff just like it’s hard for English profs to smile encouragingly at freshmen. But it’s important to be welcoming and do the best we can.
Buck Williams for the hall of fame
I wasn't hating on his consolidation as much as the idea that by trading Blake and Outlaw for a big that doesn't need minutes
How many bigs making around $9 million a year are cool with 10 minutes a game?
Also...
…how many bigs playing 10 minutes a game are worth $9 million a year.
....formerly GonzoFan. Now, this has been a message from "The People's Alliance to Continue to Encourage Greg Oden on his Path to Dominance"
I'm cool with replacing either guy with a "quality big"
I just have had my fill of trade talk that really has no point. It’s like, “We should trade Blake and filler for Chris Paul.” Paul isn’t going anywhere and “filler” doesn’t mean all the Blazers you don’t like.
At least do the homework and say, Batum for Hansbrough makes sense because the contracts fit, we need a big, and they need a wing. It’s not that hard. Not that what I just proposed would happen because they are injured. I’m just giving an example.
I don't know...
I’ve been doing some research. Apparently Paul is going to Minnesota. Who would have thought…
Sucking at darts is not a super power
Erm...
Raef LaFrentz?
:-)
"My shoulder is OK. And away we go." -- Nic Batum
"wang-dang diddly wubba SPROING wow-wow" -- Dave
Zydrunas Ilgauskas?
How many bigs making around $9 million a year are cool with 10 minutes a game?
Erick Dampier
Eddy Curry
Kenny Thomas
There’s a few of them out there. (Ben Wallace, before he “retired”) I’m not saying I want KP to pursue any of them. McDyess is a good example, he’s making 4.5mil and coming off the bench for the Spurs. Portland could still use a guy like that. Turiaf, Collison, Foster…the usual suspects. I don’t think Blake is going anywhere, so putting his name alongside Outlaw is just wishful thinking for Steve’s ‘haters" Nate talked about his desire to add a “back-to-the-basket beast of a 4” to the roster this summer. Certainly Greg fits that description, but Oden can’t be on the floor all 48 minutes, and LMA is nobody’s beast.
Jason Maxiell is still out there, and KP could put together a package that Dumars might be interested in. Maxiell’s only making 5mil, and with Prince on the shelf maybe the Pistons would be interested in Travis? Would Maxiell be content playing 10-12 mpg behind LMA? Probably not, but with the way Greg/Joel have been getting into foul trouble lately, there might be more minutes available for a 4th quality big than meets the eye at first glance
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Good post
Some good reasoning here. Just my thoughts:
Dampier’s done
Curry’s a creep and a cancer
McDyess is a finesse jump shooter now
Maxiell I could see, but I think he’s on the up in his career and still wants a lot of minutes/shots.
Turiaf was an interesting idea tossed around here a bit, might fit.
Collison would be the answer
Overpaid in OKC but his skills would make him worth it in Portland. Could play all the backup pf minutes plus whatever necessary at C when Gregzilla’s in foul trouble. Probably amount to 15-20 minutes a game in which I’m sure he would be a good rebounding, good defensive role player. Just what we need.
Now how do we get him? Outlaw would be assumed piece but I don’t see a need for him there unless they want to free up more capspace for free agency. Any ideas?
"What happened to Bayless anyway? Did he turn into a pumpkin? Most teams don’t just let #11 picks rot." - Xiane
OKC needs a PF
and we don’t have any to spare…I’d rather pursue Turiaf or Maxiell.
Collison makes too much (6.25 mil) to be acquired with only Outlaw + capspace. If we’re talking about going after a guy making more than 6 mil, I like Jeff Foster. He’s a veteran who knows all the “tricks” and (the stats say) he can start a fast break better than any other NBA big man
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
They seem to think Jeff Green is a PF
Maybe they would think Outlaw is one aswell. We could throw in Pendergraph after Dec 15th right? Pendy + Outlaw might be enough for them if they wanna cut payroll – don’t know if that is the case though.
If you think Collison is overpaid then Foster is no better – I value production over ‘tricks’
"What happened to Bayless anyway? Did he turn into a pumpkin? Most teams don’t just let #11 picks rot." - Xiane
I like veteran role players
they tend to not complain when their minutes get shortened
Nick’s looking good tonight against the Magic. I think OKC may not want to let him go, they’ve got plenty of scoring from the wing (Durant, no duh) so they shouldn’t be that interested in Travis
http://www.atdhe.net/7458/watch-orlando-magic-vs-oklahoma-city-thunder
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Pendy's only earning 457,588
So no, adding him to Travis and the capspace won’t get you over 6 mil
Including Juwan Howard (1,306,455) might be enough to reach Foster (6,077,500) though…
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Ack!
Well if you are going to do that then it would reach within 100K of Collison too right? 3.6+1.4+1.3=6.3 or just 25k short of Collison. Is that allowable.
Would much prefer him to a 33 year old with no offensive skills whatsoever. OKC should want him off the books with where they are at, a 6.3 million dollar backup doesn’t quite sound right especially when he’s only getting 15 minutes for them this year. Development is the name of the game there whereas for us Collison would be a perfect piece in the quest to become contenders.
The Thunder do have wing scoring but they also definately lack in offensive punch from the bench – Outlaw could provide that as a Rashard Lewis lite type pf for them. There would be some appeal I’m sure.
Its my pipe dream anyway.
"What happened to Bayless anyway? Did he turn into a pumpkin? Most teams don’t just let #11 picks rot." - Xiane
Then there's DeJuan Blair
OK, never mind. I didn’t really want to go there. But when someone mentions Maxiell or Millsap, I just can’t help myself. I’ve been preaching for years that the Blazers need a “Maxsap,” and that the best way to get one is in the second round of the draft. (Why break the bank when one of these “undersized” rebounding fiends drops to the second round every year or two?)
Then our GM has a gem of a “Maxsap” drop into his lap and he turns up his nose—not once but twice.
Sigh…
"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla
very well put fizz
I can appreciate that
"I can shoot with my left hand, I can shoot with my right hand, I'm amphibious".
I don't argue with your thought
But that comes across pretty condescending in print. Besides, sometimes freshmen are brilliant, innovative thinkers. And sometimes seniors & grad students have their noses up in the air and sticks up their…well, you get the idea.
"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla
It wasn't true the last two years
After Oden got drafted, folks were trying to trade away Pryz because the Blazers had Frye, Oden, and LA. We know how that turned out.
Last year there were too many small forwards and point guards. Webster ended up out for the entire season and Sergio and Bayless were not adequate back up point guards.
This year, Batum is out and neither Blake or Miller are playing like a starter. Text me about consolidation when we are farther into the season.
Yeah except when the offense is in the crapper
and there is no rhythm and Roy is getting double teamed, where do yo go to get six or nie quick points to open things up again, cut a deficit or save a lead?
Outlaw is it, right now. Rudy an Martell could maybe be it, but they ain’t. No matter how much the holes in Outlaw’s game drive you nuts, he is, at this moment, indispensible.
like rudy or bayless have any say
they are signed to a contract to play for the Blazers, they dont have too many options that help them
Woof
by Charles Barkley McLovin on Nov 8, 2009 9:48 AM PST reply actions
I'd say, as a general statement, that about 98.765% of BLAZERS TRADE posts aren't worth the electrons they're made of...
While I concur with Tom that there are no “quality bigs” out there that are (a) gonna be traded for Blake + Travis or Rex + Travis; (b) gonna be cool with playing 10-15 minutes behind LMA — it is also true that this post is no worse than the massive ceaseless river of comparable posts making similar cases.
Either Bedge can ban such posts altogether (which it has shown no interest in doing) or it can consign them to a single regular thread which can be easily avoided (which it has done sporadically) or we can dodge such things individually (which seems to be the inevitable solution).
My own preference would be for some active moderation to keep the herd of these things thinned down (what’s the point of SIX moderators again?!?!) but it’s Dave’s blog and if he thinks the “discussion” is enriched by such things, it’s pointless to argue…………..
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
I think a special case can be made for "Chris Paul" trade posts which should result in the
OP serving a one month suspension, summarily imposed.
Wait you mean you don't think
New Orleans would go for blake, Outlaw & Webster for CP3?? I mean it works on the NBA trade machine and everything!!
**Please note dripping sarcasm :-)
Now we have heard the argument many times
to segregate repetitive posts into some sort of BE quarantined space (electronic I hope). I suggest Timbo serve as St. Peter. But who’s going to give themselves up to cyber justice before their time. The time to quarantine trade post is coming my friend. It will build to a fever pitch a few weeks before the deadline, then we will gladly act on your suggestion.
we've past up too many trades in the past
we had shots at vince, richard jefferson, and guys even before that, anyways, something should change. pritchard is a good enough GM to recognize a weakness in our team, and find a solution, have faith, hopefully pritchard will pull the trigger
Jefferson's -20 would have sure helped us out the other night.
Wait….
πάτερ, ἄφες αὐτοῖς, οὐ γὰρ οἴδασιν τί ποιοῦσιν.
Just being a smart ass.
But watching him in Milwaukee did not do anything to make me a fan of his game. He’s basically Outlaw with East Coast media exposure, forced into being a number one option to pad his PPG numbers, and a big contract.
πάτερ, ἄφες αὐτοῖς, οὐ γὰρ οἴδασιν τί ποιοῦσιν.
I don't know if we NEED to make a trade before the deadline, but believe one is definitely coming this year.
I think KP didn’t pull the trigger last year because it just didn’t feel right. The team was over performing, and RLEC would still be valuable in the offseason in the form of cap space. This year, teams that lay a turd on the court and are over the cap will probably be selling pretty low. The Blazers will be looking for more success in the playoffs, and this much talent doesn’t get you much in the playoffs where the rotation tightens.
Also, we have question marks in Joel, Travis, and Blake. All could bolt for other teams in the off-season, leaving us with lost commodities. A big trade is just too likely not to happen in my opinion.
I agree, it's gonna be "move it or lose it" time
Travis’ expiring contract and the little bit of capspace that remains are assets that will disappear in KP doesn’t act at the deadline. (I’m not worried about Steve and Joel, I think they will both sign “fair” deals or extensions to remain in Portland) Outlaw is the real wild card. Chad Ford reported this week that he doesn’t think the Blazers will resign #25 in the offseason, and the team’s pursuit of Hedo and Millsap (to me) was a clear signal that they were already looking past the Outlaw era, last July.
Sure, for now Nate will play Travis as much as he needs to, but if Batum hadn’t gotten hurt Trout’s minutes would’ve been reduced—Trout really caught a break when Nic went in for surgery, because he needs to PT to build up his stats in his “walk” year. It’s in KP’s best interest for Outlaw to play well during the first half of the season, because a productive player with an expiring contract should be in great demand. My hope is that KP has a particular player in mind that he likes a lot (Rudy Gay? don’t be surprised…) and he’ll make a significant deal before his capspace is completely gone, next July. Then he can use trade exceptions to bring in veteran FAs, in the coming offseasons
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Gay? I hope not.
I want a DEFENSIVE player for crying out loud. Gay is a gunner and a scorer. We need grit, defense, and rebounding. There will not be enough shots for Roy, Andre, Lamarcus, Greg, and Gay.
by dario argento on Nov 8, 2009 4:04 PM PST up reply actions
Nick Collison
"What happened to Bayless anyway? Did he turn into a pumpkin? Most teams don’t just let #11 picks rot." - Xiane
Believe me, it's not my idea
Jason Quick has mentioned Gay’s name several times in the last 6 months when he’s been asked "who are some of the “special fit” players that KP has shown interest in?" Gay had a great workout at the PF the year he was drafted, and he has the reputation of being a team-first player who’s just stuck in a bad situation. Will Rudy be yet another “fallen angel” for KP to rescue?
We’ll see…I keep putting RG’s name out there, mostly to annoy Morty ;^)
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
KP still needs to know what this team's identity is
before he can make a trade. If and when our identity with Miller is established, there will be fewer question marks surrounding the roster.
by Blazin' on Nov 8, 2009 2:49 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
so far I’m not convinced that Rudy is all that talented. Maybe he just isnt fitting in this year yet?
Rudy not that talented?
Yes, he has flaws in his game. Handles, physicality, defense.
But not that talented?
Rudy is immensely talented...
but I disagree with the original post about him starting for many other teams. I really don’t buy that, he doesn’t have the size or the defense to be a starter. He fits in well with us because we are a half court offense and he is great at motion. He’d play well with a running team, but I’m not sure he’d start. There are too many athletic guys that have size over Rudy. In a year or two I might be wrong depending on how well he adjusts his game to the NBA.
"I been ridin' the midnight train, got ice water in my veins." -Bob Dylan
"Sasha? That's a sissy name." -Mike Rice
I agree
I just about asked the previous poster to list the teams that Rudy could start for, right now. (Besides the team that Portland is facing tonight, there aren’t many…New Jersey also comes to mind) Fernandez is a 6th man who can play shooting guard—that’s about it, and at this point I’m not sure he’s got the strength/stamina to last very long playing big minutes in the NBA. 82 games plus the playoffs, then playing during the summer for Espana? He’s already broken down and Nate/KP will have to handle #5 with care to get the most out of him
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Well you get to the kernel of the problem when you mention Rudy's international play
What we’re seeing so far this season is not the real Rudy Fernandez. That guy IS good enough to start for many other NBA teams in my opinion. But he’s seriously dragging right now. Who wouldn’t be? You can’t play non-stop pro hoops for years on end and not show the effects.
"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla
21 points for Andre tonight
Miller reversed roles with Roy, who had only 2 points but 7 assists
Sure, it was “just” against the Wolves, but things are looking up for the “new” Blazer backcourt
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Just when we thought Roy would be a perennial all-star, Miller shows up and starts freezing him out. :)
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Nov 8, 2009 11:49 PM PST up reply actions
I like the 1977 "formula"
5-6 players in double figures, Lucas lead the way with 19+ ppg. I like that balance as compared to 2 main scorers (Roy. LMA) because it’s eaiser for an opponent to shut down one or two talented guys (ref Houston series) than to defend a squad with 5 legitimate scoring threats who know how to share the ball
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I like it too, but I don't think Luke can go 35 minutes anymore.
Seriously though, that’s about where we were last year with 5 guys averaging double figures, only one guy over 20 ppg (Roy 22.6 ppg). The 76/77 team had 6 guys in double figures with one guy over 20 ppg (Luke 20.2).
76/77 Luke 20.2, Big Red 18.6, Train 14.7, Gross/Pinball/Kentucky Rifle 10-11 ppgs each.
08/09 Roy 22.6, LMA 18.1, Outlaw 12.8. Blake/Rudy 10-11 ppg each, then (6th) Oden at 8.9 ppg.
The 77/78 team got even more balanced with 7 guys averaging 10 or more, but that was probably because Walton missed 24 games and Lucas missed 14 games, so Tom Owens (10.1 ppg), and Lloyd Neal (11.0) got more minutes per game.
It’s early but I suspect we will have 6 guys in double figures this year even if Roy has more than 20 ppg. Roy, LMA, Miller, Outlaw, Oden, and then one of Rudy, Blake, or Webster.
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Nov 9, 2009 4:46 PM PST up reply actions
I would love it if everyone could come up with an arbitrary goal of the team being x amount of games over .500 at which point we’d all agree to stop clamoring for major changes to the roster. Why, then we’d all really have something to shoot for!
"I take the little gummy bear Flintstones vitamins…I try not to eat the lady. I try not to eat the man. Just give me the car. I try to find the car. Yea, worst case scenario, I eat the lady." - Ron Artest, 2009
Best trade ever!
Let’s trade blake to Orlando for the Hedo trade exception. :-)
I would cry if we traded Bayless as a throw in
This guy works HARD. He’s very young but his game is starting to bloom. Tonight in the limited time he got he hit some jumpers. When he was drafted people questioned his passing and shooting ability. The shooting is really getting there and the passing will come with time as he learns to play the game. This guy is crazy young! Don’t trade a top prospect as a throw in for a veteran PF!!
I agree
I don’t think I’ve included Rex in any trade scenario for a backup PF. I doubt KP will surrender his latest lottery pick, regardless, but I also like what Jerryd offers both in talent and intensity. He may never be a “starter” alongside Roy, like some of us envisioned after his ‘08 summer league MVP performance, but he has shown he can be an attacking “6th man” combo guard to change tempo and create foul trouble for Portland’s opponents
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
i just thought of the perfect backup foward for la
GregZilla. joel is putting up some nice numbers and deserves more time. i dont care who plays what. id still like to pick up someone big and physical and tough to back up the beast incase of foul troubles.
that's really tough
I like the idea of the twin towers as well, and it might become an option. Especially in the playoffs. The usual objections are 1) when Joel/Greg are in the game together, the team is at risk of both of them collecting fouls at a faster rate, and 2) spacing on offense becomes a problem because neother players is a good outsie shooter. Greg could develop into a better short-range shooter, but I’d rather see him playing as close to the basket as possible
If the coaches came up with an offensive strategy to use the two big guys to set screens for the wing shooters, the twin towers concept might work. They certainly both deserve 24+ mpg, as long as they can stay out of foul trouble
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Nope, they can't stay out of foul trouble as twin towers.
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Nov 9, 2009 4:48 PM PST up reply actions
Greg's making some progress in that area
but I’d still rather have a 4th quality big man, as we saw when LMA hurt his knee, a 3 big man “rotation” isn’t enough when you can’t play the 2 centers together
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Is this Post from last year?..
No such thing as too much talent only in too much ego… I like the guys we have now and look forward to seeing what happens…
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