Nate in the land of the giants
With questions swirling around Nate McMillan's offensive schemes and substitution patterns involving Greg Oden - and to some extent Joel Przybilla - I was wondering about Nate's experience coaching a dominant big man, like the team and fans envision Oden to become. (He arguably played alongside one in Shawn Kemp.) Has he ever had a center good enough to warrant an inside-outside offensive approach going over the big man on many plays? A guy who won games for him on the defensive end? Or is he a proponent of small-ball playing even without a true center for stretches because that's what he had to do in the past for lack of better options?
Is Nate maybe just learning how to use Oden effectively while we are observing him, right now before our eyes?
Here is a review of the centers Nate was able to work with so far in his career as a head coach:
2000-01 season, Seattle:
Mr. Sonics first head coaching job taking over after a few games from Paul Westphal, and maybe the best big man he ever had right at the start: Patrick Ewing. But at this time, Ewing was 38. And while he did appear in 79 games that season and played 26 minutes per game putting up some respectable numbers, he was a shadow of his former self and would retire a season later in Orlando. The other big guys on that team: The notorious forward-center Vin Baker (6'11") at the beginning of his decline, recording his lowest point and rebounding totals per game so far in his career while appearing in 76 games. And the not very talented youngsters Jelani McCoy (70 games, starting 44) and Olumide Oyedeji (he stars in 1 game), both 6'10". The team missed the playoffs that season.
2001-02 season, Seattle:
Vin Baker and Olumide Oyedeji are still there. Ewing and McCoy are gone. There is a new big man in town: 7'0" Jerome James, in his sophomore NBA season. At age 26. They got him straight from European powerhouse club KK Buducnost, after he failed to stick with the Sacramento Kings and the Harlem Globetrotters two years earlier. Well, yeah, most of you know how that turned out. More on him later. The team had 3 more players capable of playing center: The Montenegrin sensation Pedrag Drobniak (6'11"), a 26 year old "rookie". Journeyman Calvin Booth, who appeared in 15 games. And F-C Antonio Harvey (6'11), coming straight from Portland to the deep but not very good big men bench in Seattle towards the end of his playing career. He would appear in 5 games, and record almost as many fouls (8) as rebounds and points (9). Gary Payton, forward Rashard Lewis and a few others willed the team into the playoffs without much help from their pivot men, where they lost in the first round to the San Antonio Spurs.
2002-03 season, Seattle:
Jerome James, Calvin Booth, Pedrag Drobniak returned. They were joined by Vitali Potapenko (6'10") coming from Boston in his 8th NBA season, which turned out to be one of his 3 worst. And journeyman Elden "Big E/Easy E" Campbell (6'10") came to the team for the second part of the season. That's right, I'm counting 5 centers on the depth chart again. None of them good. They finished 5th in the Pacific Division and missed the playoffs.
2003-04 season, Seattle:
More James and a lot more Booth and Potapenko in a shortened rotation. Drobniak and Campbell were gone. Sophomore Leon Smith (6'10") would appear very briefly in the last 4 minutes of his career. The San Antonio Spurs had used a 29th pick on him in 1999 before instantly trading his rights to Dallas, who signed him to a 3 year deal at $1.4 million before realizing he was a dud and never played him before shipping him along to the Hawks (100 minutes) and Bucks (0). Almost 30 picks later in the 99 draft the Spurs lucked into Manu Ginobili. Where were we? Ah, Seattle had no good big men and missed the playoffs again.
2004-05 season, Seattle:
Jerome James' "breakout season". He appeared in 80 games, scored 395 points, grabbed 241 rebounds, and weighed 300 pounds. Still his career high. Well, maybe he has gained weight. Patrick Ewing was still able to do more at 38 - and in all prior years. Never mind that backup power forward Reggie Evans (736 boards!) out-rebounded and a young Nick Collision even out-scored him thoroughly (not to speak of fellow forwards Rashard Lewis and Vladimir Radmanovic). But thanks to Isiah Thomas falling in love with his play, James' agent managed to parlay a good stretch at the end of the season and a short playoff-run into a multi-year $30 million contract from the Knicks. From which he is living to this day. Now in Chicago. Likely not playing for 1 minute. Vitaly Potapenko was still in Seattle in a reduced role. Oh, and the Sonics also drafted a 19 years old center talent named Robert Swift with the 12th pick that year. Nate didn't seem to like the rookie all that much in training, so he played him in just 16 games averaging 5 minutes, thus giving Robert a lot of time to plan how to decorate his body in the future while he was sitting on the bench.
2005-06 season, Portland:
Driving down I-5 to take his new coaching job, Nate was now tasked working with center-forward Theo Ratliff (6'10"), Korean standout Ha Seung-Jin (7'3"), and Joel Przybilla (7'0"). None of them was a polished offensive player to carry any scoring load, or terribly healthy this season for that matter. Joel and Theo both missed about 25 games, Ha only appeared in 27. And the team had bigger issues than creating plays for center domination anyway.
2006-07 season, Portland:
Ratliff was moved, so the newly acquired Jamaal Magloire (6'11") in his one season with the team, F-C Raef LaFrentz (6'11"), Joel (in just 43 games), a bit of 7'1" Luke Schenscher (11 games) and another F-C with rookie LaMarcus Aldridge (6'11") had to man the 5 position. Portland again missed the playoffs, and the talk of the town was rookie of the year Brandon Roy.
2007-08 season, Portland:
Everything was supposed to become different with the #1 pick 7'0" rookie center prodigy Greg Oden, only he had to undergo knee surgery before the season as we all remember all too painfully and was sidelined the whole year. So coach Nate had to make do with another year of Joel (playing in 77 games and starting in all but 10 of them), Raef LaFrentz in his last healthy season, and some relief from 6'11" non-traditional forward-center Channing Frye just acquired in the draft day deal for shipped out high-scoring power forward Zach Randolph.
2008-09 season, Portland:
Finally Greg Oden was healthy, and his belated rookie season was about to begin. Nate and everybody in the organization marveled about how great Greg looked in training. And then, another injury a few minutes into the season stepping on the foot of fellow center prospect Andrew Bynum. Nice. A slow start into the year, foul trouble limiting his minutes, Channing also not completely healthy at the start of the season, so a lot of Joel and some LaMarcus on center. When Greg seemed to find his rhythm just before the All-Star break he was sidelined again for a month. Then some solid play in the return to the playoffs fronting the gigantic Yao Ming by both centers, but ultimately they were mostly used as defensive weapons. You know the result.
Other experience:
But wait, Nate was was also the defensive coordinator of the US Senior Men's Team in the Olypmics and World Championships, right? He must have picked up something there working for a few weeks with some of the top big men and coaches of the nation. Well, probably quite a bit, and new experiences and long discussions with some very good coaches and players definitely can't hurt. But in international ball most big men the US team encounters aren't that big by NBA standards. There is an advantage to having some more mobile players who can shoot from further outside and set moving picks, though of course a monster in the paint gobbling up rebounds also is nice. Here are the statistics from the 2008 Olympics in Beijing. Power forward Chris Bosh (138) got the same minutes as the best young center currently in the NBA in Dwight Howard (130). And a number of those came at center since he turned out to be the better defender against international competiton, with Carmelo Anthony or LeBron James playing power forward.
Similar at the 2006 World Championships in Japan, when the big guys besides Howard (121 minutes) and Bosh (109) where the mobile big men Brad Miller (50) and Elton Brand (157) to go alongside LeBron or Anthony.
Nate's coaching colleagues wouldn't mind. Coach K also isn't exactly known to have or play plenty of dominant real big men in his career at Duke (Boozer, Laettner, ...), and Mike D'Antoni had no problems to pass off players like Amare Stoudemire, Boris Diaw (6'8"), and now David Lee (6'9") as centers in his system.
2009-10 season, Portland:
And that brings us to the current season, again with reports of Greg Oden looking very good in training after his first full summer workout regimen and improvements in pre-season play, but still in foul trouble in the early going and with debatable involvement into the offensive schemes. With his time likely split about in half with Joel, and some occasional small-ball with LaMarcus at center.
Now I'm not really in favor of hiring a specialist to fix a weakness on the coaching staff, often causing big names to be thrown around who don't have to be better than who is currently working with Greg. Yes Kareem Abdul-Jabbar was a great player and did teach Andrew Bynum some tricks for a while, but he also taught the amazing Michael "Kandi Man" Olowokandi as a special assistant for the Clippers, Kwame Brown, Chris Mihm, ... to not much effect. Hakeem Olajuwon can't make Yao's foot healthy or even a healthy Yao spin around like he did. Patrick Ewing couldn't yet teach Howard his bread-and-butter baseline jumper. The players ultimately have to figure out what works for them on their own, while being trusted by the coach and involved in the team.
I'm also not saying Nate has to be a sub-par big man coach or doesn't know how to design plays for a center. At all. Just that he doesn't yet have much experience with a center on his team tasked and able to dominate either side of the court. So naturally, one might assume his strategies have been focused on other positions so far with the center as an also-ran on the floor. It will be interesting to see how that evolves while Nate and his staff try to make Oden into the Oden it hoped to get when drafting him.
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Great history on Nate's experience.
I think we are seeing early growing pains from everyone involved. Rec.
www.sumnerlawpc.com
www.CenterForVetRights.com
by NoGame on Nov 5, 2009 7:28 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Well, I'd argue that he is a sub-par big man coach NOW
although experience could fix that. I would imagine that if Seattle had ever had a real center during his time as a player either(Sam Perkins and Jim McIlvaine, baby) he’d have been able to pick up the nuances of playing with one. As it was, Kemp was nowhere close to a traditional back to the basket player, so Nate has never been involved in basketball at a high level with anything resembling a true post up player (although Vin did a reasonable Eddy Curry impression before Eddy Curry, weight and all).
I agree that it’s fixable, but I’m a little disappointed in the progress so far. My solution would be to build a time machine and go back and convince the Rockets to draft him instead of the Sonics.
by Royster on Nov 5, 2009 7:29 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Nate isn't the big man coach
They need to stop using old Blazers and hire competent coaches.
by tominhawaii on Nov 5, 2009 8:42 AM PST up reply actions 3 recs
Big man coach
in the sense of integrating a legit big man into a coherent offensive and defensive scheme.
To clarify, he’s a sub-par coach of teams with big men now.
by Royster on Nov 5, 2009 9:00 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He's also sub-par at hiring big men coaches
Maurice Lucas needs to be fired!
by tominhawaii on Nov 5, 2009 9:11 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
if good former big men make bad big man coaches, then should we hire a bad former big man?
I get the paper, so I don't care!
by Name's Ash on Nov 5, 2009 10:08 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think Shawn Bradley is available.
"The best team in the county right now wears green and goes quack, quack." -Chris Dufresne, LA Times
formerly rockingharder
by Mr. Knox on Nov 5, 2009 1:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed!
I agree. But Nate needs to go first. Watch every other championship team and NOT ONE of them substitutes like Nate. It is crazy.
P.S.
Travis needs to go also.
by jthomas on Nov 5, 2009 10:54 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It's 5 games into the season
When the Blazers are playing championship ball, there will only be a 9 man rotation.
Outlaw’s contract expires at the end of the year. What’s your rush?
by tominhawaii on Nov 5, 2009 11:02 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
rec'ed
I want to agree with this point now no matter how unpopular because eventually everyone will come around. Nate isn’t the man for this team. He got us to here but this is his limit. Now he is in over his head. He has so much talent and no idea how to use it, hence the ridulous number of substitutions…oh, and the fact that he named Blake the starter without even seeing Andre in practice.
by the glide on Nov 6, 2009 5:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He didn't hire him
Luke just walked onto the court one day and sat down on the bench….he just kept coming to all the games, and would sit on the bench with the players…… everyone assumed he must be the big man coach….I mean you can’t blame Luke, he just wanted to watch the team play (from the front row)……this is why he doesn’t travel with the team, not only does the plane ride make him sick, but the seat is reserved for the big man coach…….
by WyEast on Nov 6, 2009 5:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
"They need to stop using old Blazers "
If I could REC this a hundred times I would.
Delonte West: Zombie Hunter
by In Walks Rudy on Nov 5, 2009 10:15 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I would phrase it
they should stop hiring people BECAUSE they were blazers, and instead hirer them because they’re skilled.
I still roll my eyes at the “We want porter to coach us!” fan club.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
by ratbastird on Nov 5, 2009 12:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
One guy I like is an old Blazer.
Buck Williams.
BUt then I’m extremely biased here. It was the trade for Buck that turned me into a Blazer fan.
hakkaa päälle !
by timg56 on Nov 6, 2009 8:12 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He had limited skills
but he was fundamentally sound and worked hard to achieve his status…..
Sometimes you have to work harder as a big man, especially if you want to score with 3 guys hanging on you ….Buck was not a scorer,(unless he was about 3 feet from the hoop) but he still was about the best role player money could buy…..
I would think, teaching fundamentals to the young players on this team would be of great benefit and Buck may be a good one…..Maybe he could teach LMA how to position for inside scoring and rebounds….that alone would be worth hiring him…..
by WyEast on Nov 6, 2009 4:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure which Buck you are eferring to ...
… but Buck Williams did not suffer from a limited skills set and was a rather good scorer, both in college and for the first half of his NBA career.
Williams sacrificed his scoring for the betterment of the team. He understood that in coming to Portland he would be called upon for defense and rebounding.
hakkaa päälle !
by timg56 on Nov 9, 2009 9:57 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I suggested the Blazers hire Clifford Ray, this summer
he did pretty well with the Celtic’s frontcourt players, and was around in Orlando when Dwight Howard was breaking in
and if the Blazers had signed Ray, perhaps Tom Thibodeau would eventually agree to come along, as well?
Coaches who have won NBA titles >>> coaches that have taken young teams to the playoffs
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Nov 5, 2009 10:08 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Maurice Lucas won a title, and he's the Blazers' big man coach
Why in the world would Cliff Ray do a better job? I just don’t see that, and I grew up in the Bay Area rooting for Clifford Ray.
Importantly, while Luke played power forward, not center, in the NBA, he was a center during his seasons in the ABA.
"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla
by hurryup09 on Nov 6, 2009 1:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The thoughts been rattling around in the back of my mind that it’s Nate’s turn to grow, or go. That’s not to disparage him. I think he knows that, as evidenced by his decision to take the one year contract. I believe in Nate and I think he will come out of a rough start with more confidence and team on it’s way to the top.
My team went to the playoffs in my first year.
by pxilpooshr on Nov 5, 2009 7:36 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Rec
cuz your good people
Delonte West: Zombie Hunter
by In Walks Rudy on Nov 5, 2009 7:52 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
he has good people?
are they forcing yo uto say that?
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
by ratbastird on Nov 5, 2009 12:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
...whispering...
yes….
Delonte West: Zombie Hunter
by In Walks Rudy on Nov 5, 2009 12:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Good post Norsk
I want to like Nate and believe he’s a great coach, but the evidence is scant and I’m not the only one getting impatient. The playoff loss to Houston last season should have provided some motivation. Instead all I see is a team that’s totally lost and doesn’t appear to care much about that fact. I’ll give Nate a quarter of a season to figure it out before I’m ready to jump off his bandwagon.
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on Nov 5, 2009 8:13 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
"...totally lost and doesn't appear to care much about that fact"
Think you mighta got a little carried away there? Come on, the Blazers are 5 games into the season, have a 2-3 record (with all the games close), and seem extremely disappointed at their start.
“Lost” teams start the season 1-4 with a couple of 20+ point blowout defeats, and they party in the locker room post-game. Just saying.
"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla
by hurryup09 on Nov 6, 2009 1:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Rec
Nice research, well-made point.
"Woulda, Coulda, Mighta and Shoulda – the Four Horsemen of the Procrastocalypse" - Red-5
by jscot on Nov 5, 2009 8:27 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Rec
Great research. I think it will be a mix of Greg getting better as well as Nate learning how to use Greg better.
On a side note I have one ticket to Spurs Game tomorrow night. Anyone want to go? I am giving it away. Of course the only thing is that you have to sit in 334 Row J. But it is a free Ticket. Email me gatesr@wlwv.k12.or.us or email my profile email
"Do or Do not there is no Try"
Yoda
by Bakasama on Nov 5, 2009 8:33 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
My Japanese isn’t that great, but doesn’t your screen name mean “highly respected idiot”?
I get the paper, so I don't care!
by Name's Ash on Nov 5, 2009 10:12 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
Spot on in the Translation there.
"Do or Do not there is no Try"
Yoda
by Bakasama on Nov 5, 2009 10:27 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
rec for the screen name
I am an oasis of Blazer fandom in a bleak desert of Laker fans.
by RenoBlazerFan on Nov 5, 2009 10:30 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
sweet
Nice one!
I get the paper, so I don't care!
by Name's Ash on Nov 5, 2009 10:39 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Big man coaches are rare right?
I could only think of a few coaches that had much experience with a quality big man…AK will come in here preaching for JVG in 3, 2, 1….
Btw, for some reason every time I see Vin Baker’s name, it makes me laugh.
Great post. Rectastic.
by broyposse on Nov 5, 2009 9:05 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Good Point
Big Man Coaches
Bill Fitch = Larry Bird + Kevin McHale + Ralph Sampson + Hakeem
Alex Hannum = Nate Thurmond + Wilt + Elvin Hayes
Larry Brown = David Robinson + Buck Williams + David Lee
Tom Nissalke = Swen Nater + Spencer Haywood + Moses Malone
Pat Riley = James Worthy + Kurt Rambis + Vlade Divac
"Either way we have two phenomenal units. I'm excited to play with either one." - Martell Webster
by lee3022 on Nov 5, 2009 10:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Love that sort of analysis. Thanks for all the work.
Brandon Roy just destroyed everything in his path. There's your rational analysis -- Dave
Also: COMCAST SUCKS!
by TwoDeep on Nov 5, 2009 10:02 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
very nice norsk, i especially enjoyed the info about bosh playing 5 during the olympics over howard.
by Ben. on Nov 5, 2009 10:38 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
In the finals he also got 6 minutes more than Howard, while Boozer got none, LeBron played a lot of 4, and Team USA got outworked by the Gasol brothers. Since both are in the NBA, obviously the most NBA-comparable front court they faced maybe besides Kaman and Dirk where they had no problems.
But slowly things happen that they cannot help and the Blazers Fellowship of the Ring begins to break apart
by Norsktroll on Nov 5, 2009 10:55 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I've had it with Point Guards............
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Nov 5, 2009 11:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Drobnjak's Manjaks
Would have enjoyed it more if you mentioned the greatest NBA marketing campaign of all time, Drobnjaks Manjaks.
by robrun2 on Nov 5, 2009 11:35 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
This is exactly what I was thinking-- Nice Work Norskie
When the (maybe not wrong) criticisms of “Nate doesn’t know how to use a dominant center” started coming up, I thought— well, who has he ever had that’s even CLOSE to what Oden could be?
So I thought perhaps Nate was stuck, a little, on the sorts of gameplans that he had to resort to as a coach with no real center. I mean, until Oden, he never ever ever had a center who could play both ways and should be used as a dominant force on offense. He’s never had normal PF/C who pick and ROLL and don’t pick and pop (except for Magloire, who, with Sergio and Jack, actually did the pick and roll pretty effectively as a Blazer).
Part of Nate’s time with the Blazers has been defined by his own personal growth. From a tough, “Sarge”-like coach, to a player’s coach who is their father figure. To a more equal partnership with the star. To being open to the advanced stats KP and Friends work on, to sleep doctors adjusting their practice schedules on the road, to uncharacteristically sensitive late night meetings with his players (though that always ends up as people accusing him of having crushes on said player)… Nate has changed a lot from the “my way or the highway” type coach he seemed like at first.
The rotations have been weird, his loyalty to some players troubling to me, Oden hasn’t been involved enough, but I know Nate thinks and considers all of his decisions and makes conscious decisions about them. He doesn’t just “do” things… he has a reason. Whether it’s the best reason, only time will tell.
He also knows that he is still a very young coach who is learning, and he seems to be adjusting to this new team just like we are.
Oden doesn’t make things any easier by getting in constant, insane foul trouble. Perhaps if he stays on the floor every night for around 30 minutes, Nate suddenly looks like Pete Newell or Tim Grgrich with the big men. It’s hard to say, and the blame gets placed on the coach too easily.
Nate doesn’t seem nearly as stubborn as many think, and I think he has the ability to change and grow. To incorporate Oden like he should be, he’ll need to…
Great Post, Norsktroll (I copy and pasted that from your last one to save time).
Mortimer
by Mortimer on Nov 5, 2009 12:01 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I agree he has the ability to change and grow
I think the issue is that sometimes he takes to long to recognize it’s needed.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
by ratbastird on Nov 5, 2009 12:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I can see that as well
But for a stubborn-esque leader alpha male guy like Nate is, that willingness to change can’t be underrated.
May take too long, but it seems like it happens.
—M
by Mortimer on Nov 5, 2009 12:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It happens thanks to the imparted wisdom of us BE denizens
"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla
by hurryup09 on Nov 6, 2009 1:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Great post Norsk and great summary Mort!
All reports indicate the players like him. Have we heard anything about him feuding with a player? We’ve heard gripes against him (Sergio, Zach) but Nate is above feuding with anyone. I agree the rotations/lineups have been weird but not as much for the centers (alright, the in and out and in of Greg vs ATL in the 2nd half was weird).
My question: is Oden not involved because of Nate’s gameplan or players just not passing him the ball? I think we could run better plays for him (like a post screen from LMA) to get him open but I don’t think the players have made much of an effort to get him the ball where he needs it and when he needs it. It is always too late and only after Greg has spent half the possession fighting for position. Has Nate pointed this out to the players? It doesn’t appear (after 5 games) that the players have figured it out even though they should recognize this and/or Greg should make it known to them!
I think with time we’ll figure this part out. To do so, we need to keep Greg in the game longer. The more important problem is that the perimeter D can’t leave him hanging out to dry all the time…
"Do me a favor. Put your lip over your head... and swallow." Max Goldman
by clinchmobb on Nov 5, 2009 12:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with that
The players are as guilty (maybe more so) of not passing to Oden as Nate is not incorporating him… how many times have we seen Oden either wide open, or with insta-dunk position, and he doesn’t get the ball? Very frustrating.
THAT is on the players.
So, the players and Nate have to adjust to The Oden. I think they will, in time, since everyone wants Oden to be Oden and we got smart people we’re counting on here…
Morty
by Mortimer on Nov 5, 2009 12:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ben and Casey tweet from practice that Nate had the guys exhausted today running, and at the end was having Roy, Miller and Blake practice lob passes to LaMarcus and Greg with himself defending. It certainly won’t go overnight, but as described in the post I suppose Nate is learning this situation of handling a potentially dominant big man a bit wide-eyed along with the fans and isn’t that far ahead of the curve as he is with other situations.
But slowly things happen that they cannot help and the Blazers Fellowship of the Ring begins to break apart
by Norsktroll on Nov 5, 2009 12:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
We all know Miller can do it...
but is this exercise really for Roy and Blake? Greg and LMA? or all of the players? Do you really think Nate is just realizing this option?
I have a tough time thinking Nate just realized it as an option or is just now implementing this ‘play’. I think more along the lines that he may have realized it has been a problem for the players to execute because we certainly run the pick and roll enough to set this up. And now his solution is to 1) make the players recognize the problem. 2) teach how to execute properly. 3) practice the execution. Just like a good coach should….
Or maybe, just maybe, Nate reads Blazer’s Edge!
"Do me a favor. Put your lip over your head... and swallow." Max Goldman
by clinchmobb on Nov 5, 2009 1:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And thanks for the update by the way!
"Do me a favor. Put your lip over your head... and swallow." Max Goldman
by clinchmobb on Nov 5, 2009 1:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He certainly knows what he wants the team and his big guys to do in theory, but so far it doesn’t come natural so it has to be reinforced time and again. The best lob pass into the post so far ironically might have come from Greg to LaMarcus. Rudy is also good at finding cutters and post-up players. The other guards don’t seem to look out enough for it, so they have to stress execution.
But slowly things happen that they cannot help and the Blazers Fellowship of the Ring begins to break apart
by Norsktroll on Nov 5, 2009 1:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I guess that's why I lean toward it being a player issue not a Nate issue...
Don’t get me wrong, Nate has room to improve and maybe should have emphasized this earlier (maybe he did, we don’t know) but I just see it as players needing to recognize the situation on the floor and make the play. In my experience, it is hard to miss a big guy when he’s open (lob or no lob) but maybe they don’t have as much faith in Greg executing and thus look for something else?
"Do me a favor. Put your lip over your head... and swallow." Max Goldman
by clinchmobb on Nov 5, 2009 1:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Anyone thinking that Sergio might have been good at this?
Though I still agree with your comment from another post about how Rodriguez’ current status pretty much says everything about his ability to be an NBA starter.
hakkaa päälle !
by timg56 on Nov 6, 2009 8:16 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder if Nate has tried talking to Oden
and explaining that defensive intensity does not necessarily mean aggressively attacking everyone that enters the paint. I know that it seems very simplistic, but I often get the feeling watching him (Oden) that he feels he needs to be the “backbone” or “last line” of our defense. He can still do so without being as aggressive. It’s almost as if he’s afraid he’ll be benched if he doesn’t “bring it” enough on defense. Just a thought…
Sucking at darts is not a super power
by 1badbadger on Nov 5, 2009 5:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I am so tired of seeing GO
legitimately whistled about once every game for bodying or kneeing out of bounds a guy trying to run the baseline with the ball — one of a half-dozen or so automatic Oden fouls that every ref in the league now has a handle on. Let the sucker go, for crying out loud, and block his shot on the other side. It starts with coaching, and Nate is not coaching GO on the simple rudiments of not wasting your fouls.
by blazerwizard on Nov 6, 2009 7:16 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Then again, perhaps Nate, Luke, et al have coached GO ad nausem on these points
Sometimes, it’s difficult for a player to break bad habits. Can’t automatically blame the coaches for that. Remember, we’re not present at the practices. Just saying…
"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla
by hurryup09 on Nov 6, 2009 2:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Too bad we can't
go back in time and get Oden to Pete Newell’s big man camp (while Newell was still alive).
Great info Nork!
"I'm a man, but I can change.....if I have to......I guess." - Red Green
by antediluvian on Nov 5, 2009 4:03 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Some sportswriter noted that Ewing was so immobile by the time he came to Seattle
that he made Sabonis look like Secretariat.
by MiledAnimal on Nov 5, 2009 4:31 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Good stuff here
I don’t comment often, but one thing that seems apparent is that for whatever reason Oden draws double teams when he gets the ball in good position.
Right now in his development, if he tries to make a move to the basket against the double team he doesn’t have a lot of success. That said, he’s a willing passer out of the double-team.
Why not initiate a lot of the offense through Greg – and have him pass out when the double comes and force the defense to recover? I’m picturing something like Blake making the entry pass to GO, kicking it back out to him, and swinging the ball around to the opposite wing/corner where the defense will have the farthest ground to cover.
Oden is not a dominant offensive force yet, but defenses seem to be put out of position when he has the ball down low – and it doesn’t seem like the offensive schemes leverage that to it’s fullest potential.
Anyway, just my $0.02, but I really do think Greg needs to be more involved on the offensive end, esp as a facilitator.
by ljm42 on Nov 5, 2009 4:51 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
no, it’s a great point. Isolate Greg and Rudy/Brandon/Martell on one side of the court. Pass it in to Greg to draw the double and kick it back out for a shot or a repost opportunity.
free bayless
by Cablinasian on Nov 5, 2009 6:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure why I said no. Anyway, I agree.
free bayless
by Cablinasian on Nov 5, 2009 6:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
take the d out of oden to get gregoen
seriously, i want to see No focus on defense out of greg for a while. im tired of him fouling out covering for lack of d by other players and so other guys can get their touches. he can play d later but id like to see a focus on his offensive game. burn a game or 2 and run 20-25 shots through him or at least as many (in scoring position as brandon gets) and untill he fouls out completely. then he can get the respect from refs and mabey not foul out so much and i think his shot percentage is higher than everyone elses anyway so it should add alot of points, and he is alot more fun to watch.
by riccc_l on Nov 5, 2009 8:36 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I'm an arm-chair coach of sorts (I've coached before, allbeit teenagers) but even I have a fair idea of what to do with centers.
It’s really not that difficult to imagine.
#88 > #23 > #25
by The Pirate on Nov 5, 2009 8:40 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Nate is blowing it on the top 2 positions
Yes, our top two players are a forward and a shooting guard. But the two central positions on a team are center and point. Nate is blowing it on both. We are now 13 games into the season (counting pre and regular) and Nate hasn’t made an ounce of progress on either — in fact, he seems to be going backwards. What are we doing? Waiting to Game 30? Or 50? Or, “waiting to next year?” Let’s get this ship underway right now with the center actually playing O and D, and the right guy playing point. Then, by Game 30 or so, we’ll be in decent shape and “next year” will be a non-issue.
by blazerwizard on Nov 6, 2009 7:07 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
How is he blowing it?
I'm on your bandwagon. Eating your nachos.
by Fanboi on Nov 6, 2009 9:12 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
to be fair
seattle drafted some really bad big men during nate’s time there. I think there a little to much uncertainty at point and center, and its starting to bother me. i want to see one game where nate doesn’t take greg out of the game after two fouls, the guy needs some time on the court, and walking to the bench doesn’t count. and his ridiculous devotion to steve blake, when there is an all star point guard on the bench, is also getting to me, play miller, he’s better, bottom line
by StocktonNEP on Nov 6, 2009 2:26 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Curious...
For all those calling for Nate’s ouster, who do you have in mind to replace him? I really can’t think of any coach that’s realistically available that I would rather have than Macmillan. Not saying he couldn’t improve in some areas, but overall I think you would be hard pressed to find someone significantly better.
That said, I do think they need to find a replacement for Maurice Lucas. He was out most of last season and looks like he’s not physically up to the task this year. Greg mentioned how the workouts over the summer with Brian Grant really helped him and I think his progress has been obvious this year. Seems to me, he should be getting that kind of coaching/mentoring during the reg. season as well.
by superbatman on Nov 8, 2009 2:35 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
You write great posts
It does point out that maybe Nates going through growing pains along with everyone else. Interesting read.
by Sound_Automatic on Nov 8, 2009 12:46 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

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