The Official Stop Playing Steve Blake Now Post
by shiz on Nov 4, 2009 4:46 PM PST
122 comments
First things first, I've got nothing against Steve Blake the person. I love his attitude and work ethic and admire his love for the game. I was a supporter of his last season, defending him against attacks from many of my friends. Last Season there was no better option then Blake at the PG spot. The next in line at the PG position was Sergio Rodriguez who is having trouble finding playing time on the Kings now. With this security and massive amount of playing time on his hands he had a career year. But this is a new season and Steve Blake's role has diminished on this team during the offseason. We spent 7 million to acquire a new point guard, Andre Miller, a huge upgrade at point guard who does everything better than Blake except shoot the 3. We also have Rudy, Martell (back from injury), Batum (who is out now but will be back and deserving playing time later in the season), and Outlaw who all want more minutes and can have those if Blake loses his. With Rudy taking some playing time at the point and no more three guards on the court simultaneously with one being Blake (that Nate loves to play for some reason) taking time away from our SF's there will be more time for all the players listed. And those players deserve Blake's 26 minutes a night, 4th most on the team.
On a team as stacked as the Blazers are, every player needs to bring a unique set of skills that he does better than the other players he is competing with for playing time. Unfortunately for Blake, he doesn't. Blake's biggest competitor for minutes, Miller, can handle the ball, rebound, initiate the offense, execute difficult passes, drive, and get to the line better than Blake and pretty much any other player on this team besides Roy. The single thing that Blake does better is shoot the 3, but then again Martell, Batum, Outlaw, and Rudy can all hit the 3 as well so Blake's skill in that category is very redundant. Blake has little talent in finding his own shot, unlike Miller, Rudy, Outlaw, and cannot defend like Martell or Batum. While Rudy and Miller are no defensive Aces either, they are not any worse than Blake at defending point guards. Blake does not bring anything to the court that his playing time competitors don't already do better. Even the states say so. His points per shot is truely telling at 1.00, by far the worst of any player with significant minutes except pryzbilla.
Name MIN PTS REB AST TO FTA 3P% PPS
Blake 26.0 6.4 1.4 3.4 1.6 .8 .389 1.00
Martell 27.2 8.8 3.0 1.0 .8 2.0 .4 1.22
Outlaw 24.8 12.4 4.8 1.0 1.0 2.8 .4 1.13
Rudy 22.4 8.2 1.8 1.4 1.4 2.4 .286 1.32
Miller 25.0 8.2 2.4 5.0 1.0 4.0 .333 1.08
Blake is last in points, rebounds, turnovers, free throw attempts, and points per shot. He is second for assists, and third in three point percentage. How does that kind of production warrant 26 minutes a night on a playoff bound team? With Blake's talent and ability, he is at most a 10 - 15 min a night backup for a team with depth issues.
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Which is why he started for us last season right?
Love.
by L-TrainFTW! on Nov 4, 2009 4:56 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
He started
because we had no better option last season. Now we do.
by shiz on Nov 4, 2009 7:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No joke.
Was he better than Sergio? Yes. Does that really mean anything? No.
by Nick Van Excellent on Nov 4, 2009 7:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep.
But Nate is longing for the Blake hitting the 3 over and over again like last year.
I agree that Miller needs to start. NOW. Get the adjustment over with, so that the second half of the season will be smooth.
by 3pointer on Nov 4, 2009 4:57 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Agree
We didn’t sign Andre Miller to warm the bench. While he may not have Blake’s shooting range, he’s an upgrade in every other department. We just gotta let Roy & Miller get used to each other. Also I’ll add (despite being off topic a bit) that we should just leave Oden in despite picking up a tic tac foul, when he’s in the flow of the game, gotta go sink or swim and not pull him after every foul.
by Oden_Favre_28 on Nov 4, 2009 5:09 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Miller isn't a better 3-pt shooter than Blake but Martell is better than Batum
Consider them canceled out and start ’dre. The transition needs to start sooner than later since it WILL happen sometime.
It also give Nate an opportunity to drop the two-squad idea and just rotate players in as necessary – no black and white units predicated upon supposed “fit” with one another. The substitutions are seldom done this neatly anyway. How many minutes a game do you see all of the second team in the game together? Very few.
put a body on 'em
by RayBourque on Nov 6, 2009 12:00 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Take the above stats....
Make Blake a 10mpg player, Miller a 35mpg player and Rudy a 28 MPG player and that probly how 99.9% of sane coaches would rotate it. The other .1%? well that seems to be occupied by Nate Mac.
Let me just say, i have been a HUGE Nate fan. UNTIL this year, preseason was a joke. I got experimenting with line ups for games 1-3, but after that nearly every team in the league and certainly all of the good ones were running there regular season players in there normal rotation spots. (obviously not reg season minutes but there groups played together, starters, bench players, etc) Us? well we were toying with our rotaions up untill…….well up till now even. Freaking nates subs rotaions last night were a freaking joke! What was Nate on? Meth? What the heck! Really? I am losing my faith in Nate at an astonishing rate and im clearly not the only one. <Cough, players, fans, cough>
Here to hoping things turn around.
by blazerbeliever97504 on Nov 4, 2009 5:18 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
stop paying blake
PLEASE
Delonte West: Zombie Hunter
by In Walks Rudy on Nov 4, 2009 5:45 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I don't think that goes far enough.
Blake should be fined every time he bricks a three or blows a defensive assignment. Not just little wrist-slapping fines either, but serious fines that are going to get his wife’s attention. He probably shouldn’t even play again until he can paddle Bayless’s butt in a ping pong game.
by CatMan2 on Nov 4, 2009 6:20 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Blake should just be cut from the team
He’s an expiring contract anyway. It won’t hurt the team, they’d actually be better.
by tominhawaii on Nov 5, 2009 12:57 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Stop starting Blake. I like him as a player, just not as a starter.
Kenny Vance was calling out Brandon today on wheels at work and I kind of agree with him a little bit. He was saying it’s partly Roy’s fault for saying publicly that he was more comfortable playing with Blake. Seriously Brandon, how do you freaking know you’re more comfortable playing next to Steve than with Dre?! How many minutes have you played with Andre. I feel like Brandon made the decision for Nate before he even gave Andre a chance.
Something needs to change. That’s for sure. I’m not getting all doom and gloom. I still think this is a playoff team that takes a series this year, but I think if this poor play isn’t figured out by game 15-20, they are looking at another lottery pick.
by dario argento on Nov 4, 2009 6:01 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Good points!
The best players only try to, "do it all," themselves when it is a playoff necessity or, on occasion, to put on a show. Other than that, the game is easy for them, and they are just having fun and getting a workout in. There is no need to belabor the point!
by KINGofMACct on Nov 4, 2009 8:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes and no on the Brandon comments.
I think he is being too earnest with media members. However, you can’t blame the guy for being more comfortable with Blakey. Roy and Blake have played together for three years; that’s three more years than Brandon has played with Dre.
We fear what we don’t know; right now, Brandon is unsure about playing with Miller. I get that. What I don’t get is why he’d be reluctant to learn how to play alongside a solid, playmaking PG.
"The best team in the county right now wears green and goes quack, quack." -Chris Dufresne, LA Times
formerly rockingharder
by Mr. Knox on Nov 5, 2009 3:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I get Nate's "theory," but it isn't working on the floor.
I understand the idea of limiting the disruption to last year’s rotation. I get the Idea of balancing penetrators with shooters. I get the Idea of having Dre push tempo with the second unit. I understand that Steve doesn’t look like a good fit with the second unit. It kinda-sorta made sense, but we are getting all the disruption of bringing in Miller and a lot less of the benefits.
Both Dre and Steve look like they are pressing, neither is shooting as well as they have over the past couple of seasons. Dre in the starting unit would likely help everyone on the floor except Roy, and over the long run I think Miller and Roy can work it out. To me, when the playoffs get here, we are going to want both Miller and Roy on the floor for 35-40 minutes per game. That means they are going to have to learn to play together if this team is going to have a decent chance to advance. It makes more sense to start that transition now than continue to struggle with the current confusion.
Besides, I would like to see some decent minutes for Rudy and Bayless together on the second unit. Let them share the playmaking responsibilities and give Bayless a chance to work on his defensive skills and recognition. We desperately need better PG defense, and I think Bayless is our best bet.
Finally, I really didn’t understand Nate’s decision, last night, to play so many minutes without a real center on the floor. We were getting our tails kicked on the board and our interior defense suffers noticeably when neither of the bigs are out their.
by upper left corner on Nov 4, 2009 6:31 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Trout and Blake for Battier and who ever makes the saleries worth it.
Dont know if its poassable but its my dream ATM.
by blazerbeliever97504 on Nov 4, 2009 6:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I like the idea of packaging Trout and Blake but I would want a strong 4-5 veteran
When you see how bad we look w/o Oden or Pryz on the floor, it really makes me want another big man who can back up LMA and play spot minutes at the 5 when both guys are in foul trouble or if somebody gets hurt.
by upper left corner on Nov 4, 2009 6:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Is that guy on the roster?
Juwan Howard looked great during the preseason. I realize he’s not a viable option for spot minutes at the 5, but what about backing up LMA?
"The best team in the county right now wears green and goes quack, quack." -Chris Dufresne, LA Times
formerly rockingharder
by Mr. Knox on Nov 5, 2009 4:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Would another 5 actually change things?
I think McMuff would just sit him on the bench. I doubt the rockets would offer up bat for that, but it would certainly bring us from being a long shot at the title to a very serious contender. Bat would be our starting 3, we would have the lock down defense again, and with his analytical mind he’d even focus on not creating fouling situations for Oden. I think he would be a great fit. With Dre playing 30-36 MPG, rudy or bayless could cover the others.
by lurtsman on Nov 6, 2009 9:19 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
These points bear repeating.
To me, when the playoffs get here, we are going to want both Miller and Roy on the floor for 35-40 minutes per game. That means they are going to have to learn to play together if this team is going to have a decent chance to advance. It makes more sense to start that transition now than continue to struggle with the current confusion.
Besides, I would like to see some decent minutes for Rudy and Bayless together on the second unit. Let them share the playmaking responsibilities and give Bayless a chance to work on his defensive skills and recognition. We desperately need better PG defense, and I think Bayless is our best bet.
Players take time to gell. They might as well get started!
The best players only try to, "do it all," themselves when it is a playoff necessity or, on occasion, to put on a show. Other than that, the game is easy for them, and they are just having fun and getting a workout in. There is no need to belabor the point!
by KINGofMACct on Nov 4, 2009 8:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I like how Nate wants to attack the basket more. We need to draw fouls, yes?
2008-2009 Foul% among PG’s.
Jerryd Bayless: 18%
Louis Williams: 17%
Baron Davis: 16%
Ramon Sessions: 16%
Russell Westbrook: 14%
Rodney Stuckey: 14%
Andre Miller: 13%
Deron Williams: 13%
Chauncey Billups: 13%
Rajon Rondo: 12%
Chris Paul: 11%
Tony Parker: 11%
DJ Augustine: 11%
Jarrett Jack: 10%
Nate Robinson: 10%
Rafer Alston:10%
Monta Ellis: 9%
Mike Conley: 9%
Mario Chalmers: 9%
Chris Duhon: 8%
Sabastian Telfair:8%
Derrick Rose:8%
Jordan Farmar: 8%
Raymond Felton: 7%
Beno Udrih: 7%
Kirk Hinrich: 6%
Aaron Brooks: 6%
Steve Nash: 5%
Jason Kidd: 5%
Derrick Fisher: 5%
Jameer Nelson: 5%
Mo Williams: 4%
Jose Calderon: 4%
Mike Bibby: 4%
Steve Blake: 2%
by Nick Van Excellent on Nov 4, 2009 6:31 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Between Roy, Oden, Miller and yes, Bayless, we have four guys who are all good at getting to the line.
If we gave them all decent minutes and decent opportunities we can put a lot of pressure on opposing defenses. Combine these guys with the shooters Marty, Rudy, Trout and you have a pretty nice balance it seems to me.
Let Rudy share some of the playmaking duties for Bayless, and give him some minutes on the floor. At a minimum, we desperately need better PG defense, and Bayless is likely our best hope.
by upper left corner on Nov 4, 2009 6:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It's not that Blake is bad at drawing fouls...
it’s that he’s historically bad at drawing fouls. The team as a whole would be much better at getting apposing players into foul trouble if Blake never played. Even Rudy, who shoots a ton of threes, is much better than Blake. I just don’t get it. For all the foul trouble Oden goes through, you think at some point we would realize how important drawing fouls is.
Foul% PER Possesion
Oden: 23%
Przybilla: 22%
Bayless: 18%
Roy: 14%
Miller: 13%
Aldridge: 11%
Outlaw: 10%
Fernandez: 6%
Blake: 2%
by Nick Van Excellent on Nov 4, 2009 6:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed, if all you do is spot up for threes, you are not going to the line very often.
Rudy gets out on the break and does take it to the hole occassionally. Steve only does it when he has a clear path to the basket, about once per game last season.
Oden needs the ball, and Miller is the guy to get it to him. We know how good Roy is at drawing fouls. Bayless could be a good energy guy with Rudy or Roy off the bench.
by upper left corner on Nov 4, 2009 7:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd be in favor of trading Blake (package with outlaw) as expiring contracts
even if we got high picks in return. I like Dre starting and bayless as the backup. Ideally we’d get someone like Bat, but I don’t think the rockets are that bad at making decisions.
by lurtsman on Nov 6, 2009 9:22 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
lol... has Bayless played at all yet?
I cant remember him either of the games I watched.
Delonte West: Zombie Hunter
by In Walks Rudy on Nov 4, 2009 6:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
All of those stats are from last season.
I do not remember Bayless playing this year either.
by Nick Van Excellent on Nov 4, 2009 6:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Also...
I forgot to include Devin Harris who draws the highest percent of fouls by far at 21%.
by Nick Van Excellent on Nov 4, 2009 6:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Out of those point guards, which one won the NBA championship???
Getting to the line is not the end all be all for the point guard position. Blake fits better with Roy than Miller does period. Miller was the wrong acquisition for this team. Blake like Derick Fisher on the Lakers is a good fit with the team, even though he is not a premier point guard. No he’s not flashy, no he has not started playing as well as he can yet this year, but he will get this team winning faster than Miller without a doubt. Those stats for the first five games painting Blake as the guy that turns the ball over the most are childish, when we know the guy has one of the lowest turnover stats in the NBA over 82 games last year. Give me a break! The points is also totally misleading, since we know he can shoot, and he just hasn’t found his shot in these first few games. Miller taking his minutes is hurting Blake’s game too, but the biggest problem for both point guards are the three guard lineups Nate has been playing. That’s what is killing us on defense and offense.
They should have “let the cake bake”, but that cap money was burning a hole in their pocket. When they couldn’t get what the team needed (a PF), they took the only guy available. I have a feeling he may not be here for his whole contract if they can find a suitor for him. The bad news is, we could miss the playoffs this year. KP dropped the ball with the whole free agency thing. We needed something totally different, and he came up with Miller. The Celtics could use Miller as their back up, because their SG Ray Allen is a shooter. You see, “fit” is huge, and KP gave it no regard, just like a lot of fans. I bet he will now, but if he makes the wrong choices the “window” will be closed.
As it is now, I have a feeling Miller can be good, or Roy can be good, but maybe not at the same time against good balanced teams. We’ll see eventually.
by wingzeta on Nov 6, 2009 1:13 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Miller Ain't The Answer, Folks
Sorry, but Miller is not the PG for this team — actually he looks slow and largely unskilled. I haven’t seen this “Big Man Chemestry” in action, yet. I also don;t remember him stopping Aaron Brooks any better than Blake.
The numbers on Miller are very skewed with 3 pt shots. He made 1 this year when he was wide open, and he’s missed the next 2 he’s taken. We do not know when he’ll make his next. Say what you want, but Blake is a pretty decent 3 pt shooter, and that opens up Roy for drives to the basket.
We have lost games because of our horrible team defense — NOT because of our offense. Miller isn’t the answer to that, either.
Why do you people hate Blake? Is it because you’ve been sold on the fact that all point guards need to be slashers?
by Anim8rguy on Nov 6, 2009 9:50 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ya know......
i have read in a few places that some players and some managment actually read this site. For fun im sure and to laugh at us arm chair critics, myself included. Here is my request: Please Rec this into oblivion!
If even one person who has a small relationship with either K.P. or Nate Mac reads this and is able to get the message of this post in there freaking skull then its worth it. Am i delusional for thinking that would happen? Yes. Have stranger things happened? Yes. I am probly over-reacting, and im hoping to laugh at how i feel about the team at the moment in about a month or so, but man this is tough to watch/read/hear/live.
I agree with Dario though, i too still think the ship can be righted.
by blazerbeliever97504 on Nov 4, 2009 6:33 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for all the positive feedback guys.
I didn’t write this post because the 2-3 start spooked me. I wrote it because I know that how far we want to go as a team depends on having the most productive players on the floor. Unfortunately Blake is not one of those players and is taking minutes from the players that are.
by shiz on Nov 4, 2009 7:21 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Most productive? Blake's +/- is +16 (2nd best on team), Miller's is -28 (worst on team)
Miller’s -28 is worst on the team by a large margin, next worst is -9. Is that what you call productive?
I’m not a big fan of +/-, especially after only 5 games, but it is what it is. Last night they were up 6 when he came in the first quarter and up just 1 after he played to the end of the half. Then they go -8 with Miller in the 2nd half and +1 without him. Was that productive?
Points per shot is not a valid measure, because players get points on free throws, which don’t count as shots unless the shot is also made. Therefore if you get a lot of free throws, as Miller does, he uses possessions to get those points that are not included in the shot total. To take that into account you need to use the TS%, where Blake is slightly ahead of Miller, 47.4% vs 43.8%.
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Nov 4, 2009 7:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
well
You also have to account for the players the Miller is playing with in relation to blake…Also, Jamal Crawford affected that statistic A LOT in the last game. Crawford’s flurry of offensive brilliance really had nothing to do with Miller…No one could stop him.
by kajuayn on Nov 4, 2009 8:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Prior to last night game he was still last on the team in +/-
There is also an adjusted +/- that seeks to take into account the strength of the players that are on the court with you, both your teammates and the opposition. Miller is also last in that stat as well, both before and after last night’s game. (I don’t like that adjusted stat very much but some people like it better than the non-adjusted version), There’s another stat that shows the net difference between how your team does when you are on the floor vs off the floor, Miller is dead last in that stat as well, and Blake is 2nd on the team. Again, I’m not a big fan of these stats over just 5 games, but they agree with what I see in this case.
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Nov 4, 2009 8:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I have yet to hear a decent defense of using +/- to evaluate player performance
There are simply too many uncontrolled variables to draw meaningful conclusions.
Using +/- to diminish Miller after 5 games strikes me as absurd.
If you want to use PER or Win Shares or something else fine, but non-adjusted +/- has no reliable significance
by upper left corner on Nov 4, 2009 9:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The team plays better with Blake on the court, regardless of individual stats
The accomplishments of the team are what matters most.
by RABID_RABBIT on Nov 5, 2009 3:19 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
+/- only works for large sample sizes.
If it was a year or two worth of data then you would have a point, but for only a couple games that stat is pretty worthless.
PER is a much better measure of offensive value in a small sample. Miller has a PER of 11.89, which isn’t great, but still semi-respectable. Blake has a PER of 6.96, which is just god-awful.
They both look bad, but Miller is still outplaying Blake by a fairly wide margin.
by Nick Van Excellent on Nov 4, 2009 8:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
In this case the difference is enormous and mirrors what has happened in the games,
Last night was a great example, We played well in the 1st and 3rd quarters when Blake ran the offense, and then lost our leads when Miller played. In the 4th quarter of the 2nd Houston game we went from 2 down to 11 down with Miller’s outside shooting, offensive foul, and poor defense. Although I agree with you in general about the stat, in this case, probably because of the enormous magnitude of the numerical differences, Miller’s +/- stats over this stretch of games have been mirroring how he has contributed.
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Nov 4, 2009 8:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It doesn't matter how enormous the difference is right now
the error bars are so great that the true measure could put either as the greatest player in the league or the worst. Most people refuse to use APM for anything less than 2 full seasons. 5 games is a joke.
by Royster on Nov 4, 2009 9:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Did we get out-scored by 13 points when Miller was in the game last night or not?
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Nov 4, 2009 9:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Who was guarding Jamal Crawford?
Was it… Travis Outlaw and Rudy Fernandez? Yeah, that’s probably not Miller’s fault. Most of Crawford’s 27 points came against the second unit, so it’s not surprising that Miller’s plus minus looks bad. It just happens to coincide with the other teams leading scorer getting red hot, which has nothing to do with Miller unless he was guarding him the whole time, which I don’t remember happening.
+/- is really shouldn’t be used for anything less than a full season IMHO. Otherwise people get crazy ideas, like Blake being better than Miller.
by Nick Van Excellent on Nov 4, 2009 9:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Crawford went off because he was being "guarded" by a smaller player
The three guard line up killed us again. We can’t do that in the fourth and expect to win. We needed a True Center in there, and we had three guards a SF, and a PF playing the 5. The Hawks didn’t substitute any of their smaller guys to match us, so we got killed every possesion. We couldn’t get a stop, and we didn’t deserve one with that lineup. By the way, Blake was on the floor with Miller during some of Crawford’s nice play, as part of one of the three guard sets. So actually, his +/- would have been even better if Nate had kept him on the bench for the whole fourth.
by wingzeta on Nov 6, 2009 1:27 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
We Didn't Match His Scoring
Maybe our defense let him score, but our offense didn’t match up with Crawford while Miller was on the floor.
by Anim8rguy on Nov 6, 2009 9:53 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Getting belligerent when folks are making valid criticisms of your "data" doesn't help your credibility
by upper left corner on Nov 4, 2009 9:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't think I was being belligerent for stating facts.
It is a fact that we were out-scored by 13 points last night when Miller was in the game, There are no error bars involved, no probabilities involved. A simple fact. Another fact is that we have been outscored by a total of 28 points in 5 games when MIller was in the game. Another fact is that we have outscored the competition by 16 points in those 5 games when Blake was playing.
I believe that establishes the fact that the team has been more productive so far this year with Blake playing than Miller playing. That is statement of fact about what has happened, not a prediction of the future.
The original poster asserted:
… how far we want to go as a team depends on having the most productive players on the floor. Unfortunately Blake is not one of those players and is taking minutes from the players that are.
While that may be his opinion, or yours, I simply provided facts that show that conclusion is not supported by the team’s results so far this year. i offered no prediction of future performance based on that data, so there was no reason to lecture me on misusing statistics, particularly when I said, “I’m not a big fan of +/-, especially after only 5 games, but it is what it is.” And that is simply data that factually shows that the team has been more productive with Blake than Miller (no matter how you want to explain the reason for it).
Now, I will leave it to you, Nick Van Excellent, and Royster to assign fault for the team’s productivity and explain why the team will be more productive with Miller starting and Blake coming off the bench in the future. My only comment about that is that i would wait until that actually happens before starting Miller (which I predicted would happen within the first two months of the season).
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Nov 4, 2009 11:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Simplest explanation
Blake’s played roughly 80% of his minutes with Roy. Andre’s played roughly 65% of his minutes with Roy.
by Royster on Nov 4, 2009 11:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with 1970
but that said there’s a valid point that if Miller had more time, he might fit better. Also something to be said about Roysters comment that Miller is playing with the second unit.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
by ratbastird on Nov 5, 2009 7:37 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, but he is also playing more against 2nd string PG's and other 2nd strings,
which should make it easier for him to run the offense and score himself. I use the word run loosely, since the offense isn’t running. We had 4 fast break points in the Atlanta game and two of them were off a Rudy steal, who then flung the ball ahead to Roy for an uncontested layup. I don’t recall the other fastbreak – probably some sort of freak accident. :)
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Nov 5, 2009 8:03 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't disagree with you here
my point is mainly that +/- data is pretty meaningless at this point in terms of evaluating the better player/fit. Too many other variables to take the data ans use it to say that Miller is the root cause of the problem, especially when Rudy has played pretty terribly most of the season so far.
by Royster on Nov 5, 2009 8:09 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
well, that explanation fails
Since the Blazers have played especially poorly when Miller and Roy have played together. There are other possibilities, however…. like bad luck.
The team has played better with Miller in, but Roy out, -.5 points per 48 minutes, then when Miller and Roy have played with each other -15.423 points per 48 minutes.
by PoliSam on Nov 5, 2009 8:48 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I'd attribute a fair amount of this
to the larger percentage of Miller’s minutes with Roy that have come as part of the Blake/Miller/Roy lineups, which have been uniformly awful.
by Royster on Nov 5, 2009 9:22 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
not a large percentage of minutes, 10 minutes total or less about 14%
And, when Miller has played with Roy, but without Blake, the team has still been outscored at a rate of roughly 7 points per 48 minutes.
But, yes, that unit has been very bad.
by PoliSam on Nov 5, 2009 10:33 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Closer to 15 minutes
according to basketball value. Nearly 20% of Miller’s minuites with Roy (~19% to be more accurate) have come with that lineup while about 11% of Blake’s minutes with Roy have come with that lineup.
by Royster on Nov 5, 2009 11:36 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
your right, it is closer to 15 minutes
But the more important point is that units with Miller and Roy, but not Blake, have not had much luck this season. Maybe they will in the future, though.
by PoliSam on Nov 5, 2009 12:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That's exactly the point
The guys that were killing us when Miller was in were Crawford and Pachulia. Now, there was a brief period of time when Miller was guarding Crawford, but for the most part, he wasn’t. Miller just happened to be in while Crawford was going off on Roy and Rudy. It takes a lot of cognitive dissonance to say that Mike Bibby’s man was responsible for Crawford going off when Bibby wasn’t exactly racking up assists.
Each game has its own unique set of circumstances, until a long term trend builds up, it’s just not a reliable measure.
by Royster on Nov 4, 2009 10:03 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
that's actually not true either...
the error bars are so great that the true measure could put either as the greatest player in the league or the worst.
even with error bars Miller would still not show up as anywhere near the best player in the league.
But, the more important point is that the other statistics are equally joke worthy right now. Biedrins is shooting 91% from the field! Rasho Nesterovic has a per of 30! ha!
by PoliSam on Nov 5, 2009 8:58 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
PER ignores defense completely, and that is where Miller has really been deficient.
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Nov 4, 2009 8:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
They have both been bad.
Miller at least, has been asked to do a little more on defense. I’ve seen him occasionally guarding small forwards and shooting guards, something Blake can’t handle.
Blake seems to guard quick PG’s a tiny bit better than Miller, but Miller handles everyone else better than Blake. I would handily give the defensive advantage to Miller.
by Nick Van Excellent on Nov 4, 2009 9:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Are you seriously going to try to blame Miller for Crawford going off?
Are you seriously going to argue that Blake’s defense is significantly better than Miller’s? Next thing you know you will be blaming Miller fro the fact Brooks torched us in the playoffs.
by upper left corner on Nov 4, 2009 9:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
from what I've seen
yes… blakes defense is better because he’s putting more effort into it.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
by ratbastird on Nov 5, 2009 7:38 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Blake had the best +/- of anyone on the team last year. Large sample size.
by RABID_RABBIT on Nov 5, 2009 3:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
yes, but Blake only played 162 mins last season
without Roy on the floor out of 2187 total played minutes. In those mins he had a negative +/-. When you play a vast majority of your time with the best player/players on your team your +/- is going to be inflated because of them.
by shiz on Nov 5, 2009 4:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
the whole point is the team's numbers are better with Blake on the floor.
Including Roy’s numbers. Roy’s numbers with Sergio on the floor went down, same for Aldridge. The team did and still does play better with Blake, or else Roy’s +/- would be higher than Blake’s. Blake’s was the highest, so it proves that when he steps on the floor the team plays better, even if he is not the best individual player on the floor at any time. Portlanders just don’t seem to be able to grasp the concept that an effective roleplayer can be more valuable to a team that has a lot of talent at other positions, than another “star”. Jordan always played alongside a “roleplayer” PG, so has Kobe. Do you seriously think the Lakers who seem to be able to get any player they want couldn’t get an “elite” PG if they wanted one?
by wingzeta on Nov 6, 2009 2:14 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, Miller needs to start immediately, but not for the reasons given
If Blake were playing like his usual self, Nate’s plan would make some sense. Miller could gradually get a feel for the team—and vice versa—while the starting unit picked up where it left off last season. But Blake flat can’t shoot the ball right now. Why?
1) Like Roy, Blake is rusty because he didn’t play over the summer. (In Blake’s case, he had to recuperate from shoulder surgery.) There’s nothing wrong with his stroke mechanically, and I’ll bet he never misses in practice. But he’s lacking the confidence and rhythm factors in games because he wasn’t able to shoot and scrimmage regularly thru the summer like he’s used to.
2) I think Blake is missing his shots because he’s having to look over his shoulder at Andre Miller. As I wrote in another thread last night, back when Przy was starting in front of Magliore, he played terribly, and he later admitted that part of the problem had been looking over and seeing the guy who was killing him in practice sitting on the bench. (Nate hadn’t explained to him that he didn’t want Magliore & Zach clogging up the low post together.) So Przy pressed and stunk it up—just like Blake is doing right now.
Nate needs to accept the fact that he’s not going to get last year’s Blake in that starting unit. He needs to move him to the second unit where he belongs. Once there, I expect Blake’s shot to magically return. Meanwhile, Miller will be more comfortable in that starting role and he and the other starters will begin to get a feel for each other.
"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla
by hurryup09 on Nov 4, 2009 7:25 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
It seems like
the offense stalls in the 2nd unit when Blake is initiating it for them. Without Roy in the game, there is too much pressure or him to create offense, which he cant do. The reason he played so well last season was that for much of the game Roy, not Blake, was initiating the plays and he would play more as an off guard, hitting open 3’s when his man came to help on Roy. But now we have Rudy, Martell, Outlaw, and soon enough Batum who can all hit that same shot and add so much more to the game that Blake cant.
by shiz on Nov 4, 2009 7:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with your analysis, but not your conclusion.
The problem is that Miller is playing even worse than Blake. His defense is terrible and his shoot selection and shooting percentage is worse than Blakes. At least Blake is now running the offense effectively. Miller’s +/- of -28 for 5 games is by far the worst on the team, while Blake is 2nd best on team with +16. Miller is getting plenty of playing time, but is not playing well. He would be more out of place starting where he would be expected to hit the outside shots, which are often the 2nd or 3rd option in our plays. Coming off the bench with Rudy and Travis and usually LMA playing, he should get this team running, but he hasn’t done it (4 points on fast breaks last night). If Miller were playing well in the role he has we would be winning games.
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Nov 4, 2009 8:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
There's no winning for you BlazerFan.
Rational thinking isn’t welcomed here, only believing what they want to believe.
What I’ve seen is that Miller has played very poorly to this point despite getting generous minutes.
Brandon Roy just destroyed everything in his path. There's your rational analysis -- Dave
Also: COMCAST SUCKS!
by TwoDeep on Nov 5, 2009 1:31 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No problem. I'm just an old guy playing in the kid's sandbox.
But wait until I get them on my turf. :)
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Nov 5, 2009 3:09 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, I'm a geezer too!
Of course, you’re right that Miller hasn’t exactly been lighting it up. But starting Blake and having Miller come off the bench is helping fuel the poor play of BOTH point guards, as I explained above. Miller isn’t going to be instantly brilliant as a starter. He still needs to learn his teammates & vice versa. And he needs to play himself into shape (Miller’s annual ritual, apparently). But simply being in his familiar role as starter will almost certainly help him.
As for Blake, even coming off the bench, he’s still going to be dealing with rust from not having played all summer long as he’s used to doing. But I believe he’ll relax visibly when he’s officially demoted to the second unit, and his shots will begin to drop.
Re/ the alleged poor fit of Miller with the first unit: I don’t really buy it. It’s true that Miller isn’t an effective spot up 3-point shooter like Blake. But neither is BLAKE right now. Plus, Miller can take that kick out pass and create something going to the basket with it—something Blake has never been able to do on a consistent basis.
Miller and Roy will learn to play effectively together. They’re too talented & unselfish not to. And Miller should be able to get much more out of Greg Oden than Steve Blake can, and that’s huge. If the Blazers are to get to the next level—winning playoff series—they will need GO as a credible low post threat.
"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla
by hurryup09 on Nov 5, 2009 12:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This has been my observation as well
just watching the game it seemed the most out of sync with Miller in.
It is, however, a small sample size and I believe the argument of Miller needed to figure out his fit as well as all the other players, is valid.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
by ratbastird on Nov 5, 2009 8:35 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, he's played very poorly.
Steve Blake has been slightly worse. That’s my only point.
by Nick Van Excellent on Nov 5, 2009 2:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think that's an interesting point
and showcases Nate’s lack of communication skills.
I’ve been noticing a trend about Nate. “My door is always open”. That’s nice, but why don’t YOU initiate that conversation?
He has some good ideas and plans that come out later, but he doesn’t explain what those things are before hand. He doesn’t own the fans anything (although, it’d be nice sometimes), but he DOES owe his players.
This is starting to look to me like a weakness of nate’s. How much better would Joel have played if he’d KNOWN why he was starting and what the master plan was?
Anyway, it’s something that i’ve been watching the past few months and find the “Joel was looking over his shoulder” interesting as it supports my other observations.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
by ratbastird on Nov 5, 2009 8:33 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I've had the same thought about Nate's standard "my door is always open" line
"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla
by hurryup09 on Nov 5, 2009 12:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Blake Taco....
Delonte West: Zombie Hunter
by In Walks Rudy on Nov 4, 2009 7:43 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Seriously, what is Nate doing with his rotations?
Blake can be a great 3 point shooter, but that is it. The onus lies on Brandon Roy and LaMarcus Aldridge to figure out how to expand their games and play with Miller. If they think they can just show up and expect the same thing to happen as last year, forget it. Look at how many teams across the NBA are better this year. We so far have regressed. It is painstakingly obvious that the Blazers biggest problems on offense are a lack of post and inside scoring, along with no easy fast break buckets. Am I mistaken or isn’t Andre Miller great at getting the ball to bigs inside, and pushing the tempo…
The initial post is right on, Blake’s minutes need to be reduced so that our BEST players like Rudy and the SF trio can play more.
Also, Nate, please stop playing long stretches without Greg/Joel. Every time we do that we stop defending and give up tons of offensive rebounds. Last time I checked, playing a player and letting him foul out is more effective than benching them for fear of what might happen…
by willr24 on Nov 4, 2009 8:47 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Blake isn't great, but the Blazers have played very poorly while Miller has been on the floor
Maybe playing Miller more would help him and the team learn how to play with one another, but right now they are really struggling while he plays, losing by 12.13 per 48 minutes. http://basketballvalue.com/player.php?year=2009-2010&id=31. His net plus/minus is -26.26. Maybe that’s the fault of the rotations Nate has played him with, but his playing time has actually been pretty balanced between playing mostly with starters and playing mostly with back-ups. The Blazers have especially struggled on the defensive end when Miller has played, which makes sense from watching the games.
Now, the fragmented nature of his playing time is another issue.
by PoliSam on Nov 4, 2009 9:00 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Come on, PoliSam
you’re versed enough in stats to know the absurdity of using APM for 5 games.
by Royster on Nov 4, 2009 9:09 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
“the Blazers have played very poorly while Miller has been on the floor”
This is a descriptive fact… no more absurd than quoting his assists or saying anything about how he’s played at this point.
by PoliSam on Nov 4, 2009 9:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Qualitatively, sure
but drawing conclusions would be way premature.
by Royster on Nov 4, 2009 10:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This post, however, is making a conclusion
The stats, although the sample size is small, don’t support hte conclusion.
I believe that’s the point.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
by ratbastird on Nov 5, 2009 8:38 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Miller tends to be on the floor when Roy is off the floor, no?
Doesn’t that sort of make plus/minus worthless at this point?
Miller is statistically playing more efficiently on offense than Blake. Defense is harder to gauge, so everyone’s eye-balls probably tell a slightly different story. I think Miller has been better than Blake on defense by a small margin, but I’m sure some people disagree.
by Nick Van Excellent on Nov 4, 2009 10:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
no.
Minutes played with Roy 74.
Minutes played without Roy 47
The team has played better with Miller in, but Roy out, -.5 points per possession, then when Miller and Roy have played without each other -15.423 points per possession.
Of course, some of the worst units have been with Miller, Blake, and Roy all in the game!
by PoliSam on Nov 5, 2009 8:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
I hate it when people use meaningless or deceptive stats to bolster a point. This is truly a case of “garbage in, garbage out.”
I had this discussion repeatedly with folks who used non-adjusted +/- stats to savage Bayless last season. +/- has too many uncontrolled variables, like Crawford going off for 27 last night, to have much meaning.
by upper left corner on Nov 4, 2009 9:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
please viturally every metric you can use says Miller has played poorly so far
PER
Adjust plus minus
Net plus minus
Raw plus minus
Shooting percentage
Defense rating
Rebound rating
The only number that’s good for him is assist to turnovers. Point is, you don’t have to cherry pick numbers to say he’s played poorly so far this season. It would be absurd to conclude that he is not a good fit for Portland or that he should not play more… but I did not say that. Indeed, I qualified the description of how he has played so far by saying that if he played more that he would probably play better!
Maybe Blake has played worse… fair enough. All I was trying to do was balance out a conversation that was piling on Blake.
by PoliSam on Nov 5, 2009 8:39 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It seems to me that this thread was born out of the frustrations
of the 2-3 record. The cause for that record is that the entire team (not just Steve Blake) is playing like dung. And until these players get on the same page, it won’t matter who’s starting at PG.
Currently there is no flow on offense, while the defense is only good in streaks. It may take them 15 to 20 games to figure things out. Until then, they’re going to have to grind through games relying on raw individual talent, some luck, and poor play by the opponents.
20 game prediction: 12-8.
Portland's PG of the Future - MORE John Wall
Treat people well because Karma can hit you at any second.
by Net Ranger on Nov 4, 2009 9:13 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
You act as if this is some uncontrollable force of nature
It isn’t. This is about coaching decisions. Blake’s PER is at just over 6, which is ghastly. Miller’s career stats all support the contention that he is a much better player. Trying to reverse the natural order for reasons of fit is just messing with both Blake and Millers heads. Both guys are pressing and under-performing.
Eventually Miller and Roy are going to need to be on the floor for 35-40 minutes per game in the playoffs. They need to learn to play together. Why not start now?
by upper left corner on Nov 4, 2009 10:06 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Agreed
I know this is bash Nate day as well (he got killed on 95.5 today), which I don’t entirely agree with, but I really wish Mac had picked a couple games this season to focus on Roy and Miller working together in game situation. Unfortunately, that didn’t happen, so now it’s trial by fire.
I hate Comcast.
Card carrying member of Team Bayless
I believe in Greg Oden
by blazeraddict on Nov 4, 2009 10:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think that's a good point.
I also believe that during those growing pains, the blazers will plummet. It’s possible that nate was attempting to smooth out that transition (although it’s clearly not working at the moment).
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
by ratbastird on Nov 5, 2009 8:42 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It might have worked if Blake hadn't been rusty from his summer of shoulder rehab
But as it is, Blake’s bricking those open 3’s and pressing all over the court. It’s time for Nate to bite the bullet and put Miller in the starting lineup where he belongs.
"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla
by hurryup09 on Nov 5, 2009 12:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Also, Miller will be a much better mentor to Bayless .
Hey while I’m at it, y’all remember Bayless? What ever happened to that guy?
An Oregonian in Texas.
by NoiseMekanik on Nov 4, 2009 9:47 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Why is Nate so in love with Blake?
I think it’s obvious to everyone by now (except to Nate) that Miller should be starting. We should play Miller for at least 35 min a game and then let Bayless have any remaining minutes at PG. Nate’s all about experimenting right now, why not experiment with that? At least Bayless would bring intensity off the bench and I think he’d really thrive with that 2nd unit.
"The two things you've got to do to give yourself a chance to win games. One, you've got to shoot the ball. Second thing, we've got to play defense."
- Nate McMillan
by ericking on Nov 4, 2009 10:59 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
If one player fits well with 3 out of 5 starters
and another fits well with 1, who should start?
Roy is a great player, he will figure out how to play next to Miller.
Miller is a damn good point guard and has played with high usage players before, he will figure out how to play with Roy.
Meanwhile, Miller can help Webster, LA and Oden get the ball in the places they need it to be successful. Blake does not and will not do that.
"What happened to Bayless anyway? Did he turn into a pumpkin? Most teams don’t just let #11 picks rot." - Xiane
by MadBlaze on Nov 4, 2009 11:21 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
I know that Roy is our guy
but this comment speaks to another thought that’s been going through the analysis lately. Namely, that Brandon’s increased scoring (and looking for his shot) is not necessarily the best thing as it doesn’t get his team-mates as involved in the offense.
If our team was comprised of scrubs and Roy at the other four positions, I might argue your point. But when your other guys are some combination of Oden, Aldridge, Marty, Travis and Rudy, the 3 out of 5 argument really sticks with me.
by Montavilla Steve on Nov 5, 2009 12:09 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm in agreement that Miller should start...
a 2-3 start is never something you want to see, especially when 2 of those losses came on our home floor. If Nate is too thick headed to at least try a different starting line-up then maybe we do need to consider making a change. Its been proven in the comments above that Miller is a superior point guard with the exception of the 3 pointer. Its also been a long time complaint that this team is ‘just a jump shooting team’…well it seems to me if we force Miller to play the starting PG position, that will be one less ‘shooter’ on the floor and one more guy that knows how to attack the basket. This should open up the inside-out idea on offense and allow LA, Martell and B-Roy handle the outside shooting duty.
Its been said you can ‘never have too many shooters’, but I would argue that having too many shooters in your starting lineup (especially one-dimensional ones…) does turn you into a strictly jump shooting team.
Just my 2 cents…
by abobo84 on Nov 4, 2009 11:59 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I think Bayless should start
Miller and Blake haven’t proven to be better than him yet.
"I'd like to see Nate McMillan stop treating fouls like they are rollover minutes." - Blazer Guy 11/4/09
by jamon51 on Nov 5, 2009 12:19 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
How did this post become official?
I might make the “Final Word on Not Playing Blake” fanpost.
by tominhawaii on Nov 5, 2009 12:59 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
It's a pretty common "trick" in overflowing forums (sports, tech, ....) to collect everything for one topic under one thread
As for Steve, I suppose he only gets worried once Paul Allen hands KP “The Official Stop Paying Steve Blake Now Post-It”.
But slowly things happen that they cannot help and the Blazers Fellowship of the Ring begins to break apart
by Norsktroll on Nov 5, 2009 2:33 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not stop playing Blake, but play Miller enough to let him get acclimated
Blake is a solid back-up PG
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on Nov 5, 2009 7:49 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I still don't get this post, can someone explain it to me
It says “Stop playing Blake” then says at the end to play him 10-15 minutes.
by tominhawaii on Nov 5, 2009 8:41 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
It says that
He could get 10- 15 backup mins on a team not as stacked as the Blazers are. But on our team he doesn’t have the talent to justify minutes.
by shiz on Nov 5, 2009 12:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I've got an idea
Let’s trade Blake and Miller for Jason Wiliams and Goran Dragic! Their PERs are way higher than Miller and Blake’s. They have high assist to turnover ratios… and are shooting better from outside.
by PoliSam on Nov 5, 2009 9:02 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
The Magic aren't in a bad situation. If a former championship-winning point guard is your #3, I'm almost positive that's a good sign.
But slowly things happen that they cannot help and the Blazers Fellowship of the Ring begins to break apart
by Norsktroll on Nov 5, 2009 11:08 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
just do it
start miller and make a run to being a great team.
by 9ballkid on Nov 5, 2009 9:11 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I have No Problem w/ Steve Blake...
on the bench clipping 3s in the 2nd and early 4th quarter; The problem is our “upgrade” at Point is really fools gold; we just got older at the position with Miller and hes not bringing anything to the table Jay Bay Bay can’t bring. We’ll be OK by March but we have to square up the rotation…
"The official GOON for McMillian and co"
by whutupfam on Nov 5, 2009 10:41 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Really? Bayless is as good a PG as Miller?
wow
I am an oasis of Blazer fandom in a bleak desert of Laker fans.
by RenoBlazerFan on Nov 5, 2009 3:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
same strategy get same result
doing the same thing with mostly the same players as last year will get the same results. except that last year the team seriously overachieved in the regular season. that is whey KP got Miller, to do something differently. maybe its time to break with the slow paced half-court oriented offense that suits Blake and give his minutes to Miller and Bayless
by 55wins on Nov 5, 2009 5:00 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Miller shot more free throws
in just one season (last year) than Blake has his whole career.
Miller- 409 FTAs in 08/09
Blake- 406 FTAs from 03/04 through 09/10.
by CleBlazer on Nov 5, 2009 11:18 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
But they have completely Different Playing Styles
Earlier in his career, Miller was driving and beating guys regularly that fouled him.
Blake is a point guard that works better with another player being the guy who drives and kicks out to him.
I think the problem is that the offense gets stagnant frequently, with everyone standing around waiting for something to happen. Usually Rudy comes in and breaks up that funk.
by Anim8rguy on Nov 6, 2009 10:04 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
great post!
I like your argument. Thanks for providing stats to back up your point and not just bashing Blake with no data to show for it. Also Nate, please stop playing Blake and Miller at the same time. What the? That makes zero sense.
I like Sarge, but yeah if this season doesn’t start looking better than last season, we gotta start questioning his coaching decisions.
Also, Brandon hasn’t really delivered anything but excuses so far. There is a reason his shooting percentage is low. He needs to change his attitude about his role on the team… as the team leader. He should WANT to play with the best point guard. I don’t get it. He needs to learn how to play without the ball all the time. He just stands around when he doesn’t have it. Brandon is so freaking good it should really not take him that long to adjust… then how much better will he be? MVP candidate at that point. B-Roy is a stud but I think there is still some maturity that has to happen so he realizes that some decisions that are better for the team are more important than what is best for him. He might think that, but is not acting like that based on this Andre Miller issue.
by 6manoffense on Nov 6, 2009 11:49 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Another in a LONG LINE of Blame Blake / Play Miller posts...
It always scares me when a post starts with the ol’… I really like Steve Blake but… type line.
…I guess I’m not getting it… Andre Miller has showed me ABSOLUTELY nothing to prove he can do all the things everybody says he can do…Not for us at least! I’ve seen Blake make the same lob passes as Andre… Miller has made some good passes don’t get me wrong but have they really made up for his poor shot selection and overall play. Doesn’t really matter does it… The most important thing is that it gives soembody another reason to make a post like this.
What exactly will the benching of Blake accomplish?.. Does he really have anything to do with our poor start? Can anyone really believe that a PG combination of Miller / Bayless is superior to Blake / Miller?…
…Well I guess they can… I just don’t get it!
I surrender. I really thought this site was the top dog when I first came here but I simply can’t take the redundant beating of this dead horse anymore. I love the Blazers and want to have fun following them… not pick a part everything they do … Look at the fanpost list right now… “New B-Roy is the Old Kobe”… Another Pro-Andre Post" and this beauty… “Official Stop Playing Steve Blake Now Post”… All that’s missing is an “Oden’s a Bust” and an “Outlaw is a Slow Southerner who’s Money Hungry” post…. Nothing fun there for me. As a matter of fact it insults me!..
To me this isn’t discussion of the finer points of Basketball… It’s being jaded, fair weather fans who either weren’t around or have forgotten the Whittset / Jailblazer era.
Either way… I’m out… I’m sure my homerism won’t be missed. Ya’ll will be having too much fun pointing fingers of blame at the guys I love!..
GO BLAZERS!!!
by Ilikeemall on Nov 6, 2009 5:22 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I'm not pointing a finger at Blake for the slow start.
And i really don’t think anyone else is blaming just him for it either. I am simply saying I think that Blake doesn’t have the talent level to warrant the minutes he is receiving on this team now. The Blazers will be a good team whether or not they play Blake. I just think they will be better in the long run if they don’t play him. You are right though, Miller hasn’t shown us a whole lot yet this season, but based on his career he is a very talented PG capable of leading any type of team and making them better.
I am just as much of a homer as you are. I love the Blazers and what they are doing. But I also want them to be the best team they can be.
by shiz on Nov 6, 2009 5:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
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