How One Minute Will Make Oden An All-Star
I want to see more of Greg Oden. He and Martell Webster have been the shining lights in an otherwise horribly disappointing beginning to this season. The number one obstacle to me seeing more of Greg is...you guessed it...fouls (no, not Nate McMillan's substitution patterns - grin). I've poured over the five games we played and charted the mean time between Greg's fouls. Yes, I'm that desperate to find some way to expend my Blazers frustration. Check out the results.
I'll start with the caveat that this is not scientific since I'm dependent on play-by-play accounts of the game. If they missed something, I missed something. Feel free to check my work. Check out the link here: http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tM8k14-weQ8ySZaVY0Bz_IA&output=html
I charted every time Greg entered the game, exited the game and drew a foul. I then took an average of time between fouls for each game, and mean time between fouls for the season-to-date. A few tidbits:
- The longest time Greg has been on the court without drawing a foul = 11 m 52 sec
NOTE: That is not one single contiguous block of time. In this case during the OKC game, Greg drew a foul at the 10:03 mark of the 2nd qtr, exited the game at the 6:50 mark, re-entered at the 3:12 mark all the way until halftime, then started the 3rd qtr and didn't foul until the 6:33 mark of the 3rd. Add that all up and you get his longest stint without a foul.
- The shortest time Greg has been on the court before drawing a foul = 16 sec (start of Denver game)
- # of times more than 7 mins has elapsed without Greg drawing a foul = 5
- # of times Greg has drawn a foul in less than 2 mins = 7
Best Game For Greg Avg Time Between Fouls = @OKC, 6 min 15 sec
Worst Game For Greg Avg Time Between Fouls = ATL, 2 min 53 sec
Looking over the first five games, Greg averages a foul every 4 mins 9 sec of playing time. Given that you get 6 fouls in the NBA, that means he projects to being able to play 24.54 mins/game. His actual season average is 23 mins/game. That means Nate could be getting an extra 1 min 54 sec of Greg each game if he chose to. Setting aside the Nate bashing for a moment (since there is another thread on that), I wanted to see what would happen if Greg made the modest improvement of increasing his average time between fouls by a single minute to 5 mins 9 sec between fouls.
That would increase his projected playing time to 30 mins 54 sec. Given that Greg averages .30 pts/min, .43 reb/min, and 0.1 blocks/min, that single extra minute would add 1.8 pts, 2.58 reb, and 0.6 blocks to his per game averages, which would raise his averages to 8.6 points, 12.38 reb, 2.8 blocks. I'd argue that larger blocks of playing time would lead to more points as well just from a rhythm and flow perspective, but I have not numbers to back that up. My guess is if someone did an analysis of games Greg played 30 or more mins, they'd see an average far higher than 8.6 points.
Taking it a step further and just asking for the average time between fouls to go up two minutes to 6 mins 9 sec, would get you averages of 10.4 pts, 14.96 reb, 3.4 blocks per game.
My point in all this minutiae is it's time for someone to explain to Greg that even adding 60 seconds more time between his fouls would have a major impact on this team. If he can set a stretch goal of adding two extra minutes between fouls, he becomes an All-Star. Last year, we could point to a host of things that were holding him back. This year, it's almost exclusively fouls. Nate and team should be pulling out all the stops to increase the mean time between fouls, including little things like talking about this to the refs before every single game and even having Greg ask the refs for tips on how to avoid fouls. People in authority, like refs, love to feel like they hold the power. Having Greg put himself in subordinate position to them increases the chances they will think twice about making a call and actually pull for him to improve in this area. Call me crazy, but this strategy works across almost everything in life.
Bottom line: we're minutes away from seeing Greg explode.
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Oden's fouls are a crisis.
He is averaging 7.5 fouls/36 minutes, up a full foul/36 from last season. He’s on track to absolutely blow away the record for fouls/36.
I am with you that Oden playing 30 mpg is a very good player. Oden playing 35 mpg is a possible allstar.
I don’t know that this is a simple fix though. Its a huge, huge problem.
by jksnake99 on Nov 4, 2009 4:53 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I think when you simplify the message to a player, it helps
“Foul less” is not as easy to wrap your head around. “Look at the clock and subtract 5 minutes from it. Don’t get a foul before that time.” is more actionable. I really do believe it’s a mindset with him.
Bring back the Uncle Cliffy!
by hawkblogger on Nov 4, 2009 4:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
oden needs to do
is talk to the refs after a foul. ask them what they saw. complain. he doesnt say anything. he just takes it, and they will keep giving it. if he dont complain they have no reason to stop.
by jeremyse on Nov 4, 2009 5:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
All of our 5s
including LaMarcus have seen their foul rates skyrocket this year. Joel is up 3 fouls/36, and LaMarcus has nearly doubled his fouls per minute this year. Oden started out as a bad fouler from last year, but describing this regression as an Oden-specific issue probably isn’t capturing the entirety of the situation which looks to have a large systemic component.
While it’s certainly possible that Oden has gotten worse, it’s unlikely that not only did Oden get worse, but Przybila and Aldridge both took humongous leaps in their foul rates completely independently as well. Of course, regardless of why it’s happening, the result is still the same, Oden is collecting a lot of fouls, but the fix may be something simpler such as changing up our defensive scheme rather than Oden himself having to go back to the drawing board.
by Royster on Nov 4, 2009 8:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Good point.
Five games does not a trend make. While Oden’s fouls will obviously continue to be of concern given his foul rate last year, they still have 77 more games and 26 more teams to play. We’ll have a much better idea of how it’s going to go for him this season after they’ve played 20 or 30 games. No reason to freak out yet.
by MDBlazerfan on Nov 4, 2009 9:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep--the underlying problem is perimeter defense, I think
But like the poster said, if GO could just draw a FEW less fouls, that’d be huge. And I do like the idea of asking advice from the refs. Hey, it worked with my college profs…
"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla
by hurryup09 on Nov 5, 2009 7:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It's a mind boggling problem
I know I’m not 7 feet tall, but I’ve found it incredibly easy not to foul when playing basketball. Hitting a three point shot off the dribble is hard. Not fouling I can do in my sleep.
Hey, do we know if his foul rate is higher or lower after playing for x contiguous minutes. I also wonder how his foul rate varies as a function of the number of fouls he already has.
by PoliSam on Nov 4, 2009 9:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know, but we determined in one of the junk drawers that in college his foul rate was just 3.8 per 40 minutes
Pace adjusted and non-adjusted. So he gives up like 3-4 more fouls, which is staggering. And it’s the one thing that negatively truly differentiates him from every other great big man in the game. All of them started out with something < 4 personal fouls per 36 minutes, and further reduced this as the years went on. There is pretty much no exception, no matter if you look at great offensive or defensive centers past or present.
But slowly things happen that they cannot help and the Blazers Fellowship of the Ring begins to break apart
by Norsktroll on Nov 5, 2009 3:10 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
maybe NBA refs are now calling the game...
incredibly tight, especially when centers are involved? Howard seems to think so.
Playing the role of a conspiracy theorist a bit here: with the Blazers slow pace and huge front line, if they allowed Oden to play physically, the Blazers could hold teams to some truly anemic offensive numbers… in the not too distant future.
I know there is no conspiracy, but it makes me feel better pretending there is one.
by PoliSam on Nov 5, 2009 9:12 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I haven't whined about the refs in a while so I'll take this opportunity
Specific to Greg, they’re calling minimum two phantom fouls a game on Greg. Where is the balance? More generally, the refs have had a heavy hand in every game. They’re changing things with their arbitrary decisions, and it seems like every down the stretch call hurts us.
Even when they call fouls on the opposition, it’s likely to be “before the shot” and the shot goes in. When there’s a tangle and it could be attributed to multiple players they call it on Greg or LMA. And when it’s a tangle on our side they award the foul shots to Greg instead of… anyone else.
by jiminut on Nov 4, 2009 5:52 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Great headline.
Greg will foul less eventually. I can’t think of any impact player in the league who had his kind of rookie foul issues throughout his career.
by MiledAnimal on Nov 4, 2009 6:26 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Dear ATL Blogger...I Loved this post!
No doubt about it. Greg will shed this problem.
The only real question is (and that’s a “Big Un”) ………
WHEN?
Chucky Darwin’s own statistically & scientifically proven humanistical probability growth chart reveals it is coming sooner than later. Carl Jung recently told me to dive right in cuz I was onto something here. Sigmund says I am just envious, that I need to go back into my unconscious state that I usually post from.
Personally I believe that the successful expression and integration of the complex, interdependent elements within the larger self is often short-circuited by traumatic events (Blazers start to this season) and social or familial conditioning, repressing the individual’s natural drives (wife pushing me away all the time). The result is varying degrees of mental illness (upset at Nate pulling Greg out of the game way too quickly) resulting in the form of disabling neurosis or deep pathological psychosis (it’s not my fault!).
Well for sure I’m onto something but…….
The Oden Era, Day 865
by Heymoe on Nov 4, 2009 7:24 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Boy, that's a long way of saying ...
“If Greg played more, he’d score and rebound more.” Nice way of putting it, though.
"These are dreams that we have." --Rudolfo Fernandez
by bfan on Nov 4, 2009 8:11 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I saw something really miraculous tonight that completely changed my life
Danny Granger was in foul trouble early in the fourth quarter. Jim O’Brian left him in the entire time. He fouled out with 3 minute to go in the game. Granger is the Pacers best player, but, miraculously, the Pacers did not fall apart and die. Instead, they held onto the lead that Granger helped them get. Having watch Nate McMillan coach, I thought this was impossible. I thought that if one of your star players fouls out before the end of the game, you are guaranteed to lose… because made baskets are worth triple during the final three minutes.
by PoliSam on Nov 4, 2009 9:08 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
Granger does not make his living on defense so big difference
"Either way we have two phenomenal units. I'm excited to play with either one." - Martell Webster
by lee3022 on Nov 4, 2009 11:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Nice way to bring clarity to the subject
Dazzle us with ????
No really – cute – it made me smile.
"Either way we have two phenomenal units. I'm excited to play with either one." - Martell Webster
by lee3022 on Nov 4, 2009 11:10 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
My head is going to explode
if he keeps losing the ball on almost “sure thing” dunks! AAHHHH!!!!!!!
I love my Comcast!
by Comcast Lover on Nov 5, 2009 6:23 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Oden not the only center having issues with the refs
From Dwight Howard
was on the floor for 16 minutes and fouled out!!! Let me say that again: 17 minutes and six fouls!!! How can that be, ya’ll? It was crazy. They called me for a charge on a flop, a push off when the defender was on me and two fouls on blocked shots.
Man, 16 minutes is a lifetime low for me I think. I haven’t played that little in a game since I was 10 years old in pee-wee ball. It was crazy from the start of the game all the way to when I fouled out with about 4 minutes to play.
What really bothers me is they are letting guys hammer me at one end of the floor, yet I’m being called for everything. All of those hits take a toll on my body after a while.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
by usmcr3049 on Nov 5, 2009 9:00 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Welcome to Greg's world, Dwight.
Like a unicorn, fast break offense is a mythical creature in Portland.
Offensive production is irrelevant without defensive stops.
Step #1 - Feed Greg. Step #2 - See Step #1
by Sean M on Nov 5, 2009 11:35 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
should every shot be contested?
do the very best post defenders try to block every shot? i doubt it. i wonder if our bigs are confusing Nate’s plea for effort with “contest every shot”. are there not situations where you are clearly beaten that you let it go rather than making an ill-advised attempt at defensive heroics only to lead to an “and one”?
by 55wins on Nov 6, 2009 11:07 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

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