Start Bayless? Start Bayless!

by VinnyB on Nov 30, 2009 4:36 AM PST

Before you scoff at my idea you should know(if you don't already that is) that Dallas is starting another rookie PG and having success. They did it with Devin Harris and now with Beaubois. They start them and let them play 15-20 minutes a game. While they don't offer a lot on offense, they have turned into capable defenders. Bayless, like Beaubois, is quicker than both Blake and Miller and J-Bay might be able to learn the PG duties quicker when he actually plays. Playing him a couple minutes a game is not going to speed up his progress any. He is still the same kind of player he was last year when he wasen't playing either. Give him the minutes now and we'll be able to find out if he's the real deal. Miller can take the rest of the minutes and Blake can sit on the bench for a change. Nate can kiss his bum alot more often if Blake is sitting next to him for 48 minutes a night. You go Nate!

Do I really need to explain how much of an impact this could have on the team if its succesfull? Bayless needs the minutes to make a few mistakes and thereby learn from them. If he does not play, how does he learn? Perhaps playing with better players will help his confidence. Everytime I look around the league, nearly every team has a good young PG (sometimes 2 of them) and I get envious, alot! A while back I thought that since Minnesota has 3 young PGs and 0 SGs, that we could make a trade with them. Then I remember that we still have Bayless that we need to develop and how he would feel if we went out and traded for another young PG. Wouldn't it be great if we could know NOW if Bayless was the real deal or not? At this rate Bayless will never develop the tools to play PG, at best he'd be a combe guard off the bench, like Ronald Murray or Will Bynum. I 'd rather know now if he can play or at least learn to play PG. Wouldn't you?

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Start VinnyB!

"Woulda, Coulda, Mighta and Shoulda – the Four Horsemen of the Procrastocalypse" - Red-5

by jscot on Nov 30, 2009 4:42 AM PST reply actions 2 recs

Do I really need to explain how much of an impact this could have?

"Woulda, Coulda, Mighta and Shoulda – the Four Horsemen of the Procrastocalypse" - Red-5

by jscot on Nov 30, 2009 4:42 AM PST up reply actions

Vinny needs to make a few mistakes and learn from them!

"Woulda, Coulda, Mighta and Shoulda – the Four Horsemen of the Procrastocalypse" - Red-5

by jscot on Nov 30, 2009 4:43 AM PST up reply actions

Perhaps posting with better posters will help his confidence!

"Woulda, Coulda, Mighta and Shoulda – the Four Horsemen of the Procrastocalypse" - Red-5

by jscot on Nov 30, 2009 4:43 AM PST up reply actions

Let's make other sites envious of our young PG (Posting Guru)!

"Woulda, Coulda, Mighta and Shoulda – the Four Horsemen of the Procrastocalypse" - Red-5

by jscot on Nov 30, 2009 4:44 AM PST up reply actions

Wouldn't it be great if we could know NOW if Vinny is the real deal?

"Woulda, Coulda, Mighta and Shoulda – the Four Horsemen of the Procrastocalypse" - Red-5

by jscot on Nov 30, 2009 4:45 AM PST up reply actions

I'd rather learn if he can play!!!

"Woulda, Coulda, Mighta and Shoulda – the Four Horsemen of the Procrastocalypse" - Red-5

by jscot on Nov 30, 2009 4:45 AM PST up reply actions

Silver Screen & Roll is starting a rookie poster!

by Marvin100 on Nov 30, 2009 8:14 AM PST up reply actions

Timbo! Stop hijacking jscot's account!

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by LaMarvelous on Nov 30, 2009 8:18 PM PST up reply actions

That's not timbo's style

He has these conversations back and forth with himself.

I was just citing the last paragraph of the OP.

"Woulda, Coulda, Mighta and Shoulda – the Four Horsemen of the Procrastocalypse" - Red-5

by jscot on Dec 1, 2009 12:26 AM PST up reply actions

Despite the comments above

I still expect Jerryd to be starting next year.

"Woulda, Coulda, Mighta and Shoulda – the Four Horsemen of the Procrastocalypse" - Red-5

by jscot on Nov 30, 2009 4:46 AM PST reply actions

Wow.

That is a bold, bold statement. I’m not down on Bayless at all, but I think the odds of him starting next season are about the same as Cunningham starting next season.

by Nick Van Excellent on Nov 30, 2009 5:56 AM PST up reply actions

I know lots of people disagree with me

I said by the start of next season before we got Miller.

I think the likelihood of Jerryd being behind Blake on the depth chart by the start of next season is less than 25%. I am convinced he’ll be adequate as a three point threat, adequate as a distributor, adequate bringing the ball up court, an adequate team defender, and miles ahead of Blake as an individual on the ball defender, and light years ahead of Blake in taking it to the hoop and scoring/drawing fouls. And I think that will be enough to convince Nate. Nate got criticized for playing Jarrett Jack ahead of Blake sometimes, and he kept doing so even though Jarrett kept stepping out of bounds. Well, Jerryd is going to be Jarrett Jack plus by next year.

And I’m not yet convinced Miller is going to be a success in Portland, nor that he won’t be slowing down by next year.

And I think if Jerryd and Miller are roughly equal, that Jerryd is more of a Nate guy than Andre — aggressive defense, especially, being the key.

The things that had everyone excited about Andre coming here aren’t happening. 1) We aren’t seeing Brandon getting the ball in easy position to score. 2) We aren’t seeing the pick and roll with Greg. 3) We aren’t seeing Andre quarterback a running attack, whether with the starters or the bench.

Blame Andre, blame Nate, blame Roy, blame Blake, blame sunspots or global warming or the worldwide Communist conspiracy or Rush Limbaugh or Tony Blair or GWB or OBL, blame whoever, but those things aren’t happening.

And if those things aren’t happening, then the Andre playing for us on the court is simply not all that far ahead of Jerryd, and Bayless is far more athletic and a better defender.

The fact is, our PG play has been poor no matter who is playing the position, for the most part. Blake’s play the last two years and Andre’s the last ten years means nothing to what is happening on the court right now, and these guys better get their game together or the new kid on the block is going to take all their toys and send them crying home to mummy.

"Woulda, Coulda, Mighta and Shoulda – the Four Horsemen of the Procrastocalypse" - Red-5

by jscot on Nov 30, 2009 7:09 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs

P.S.

I said “start” of next season before we got Miller. Now that we have him, it may take longer, but I still expect Jerryd to be starting sometime next season.

"Woulda, Coulda, Mighta and Shoulda – the Four Horsemen of the Procrastocalypse" - Red-5

by jscot on Nov 30, 2009 7:12 AM PST up reply actions

It's not all that crazy.

The thing is, Blake and Miller are playing like poop on offense. That wouldn’t be such a big deal, since they’re role players and all, if they weren’t also playing like poop on defense.

Miller is playing a little better, but not enough that it really matters. Clearly the Blazers haven’t been happy with the PG play in a LONG time. There’s pretty much been a new PG every season for the past five years or so. It’s gotten to the point of embarrasment. The Blazers are a revolving door of crappy point guards.

Think of it this way; Andre Miller is the best PG we’ve had in soooooo long and he still stands a good chance of getting traded before the year is up. It’s been said that Paul Allan loves point guards, that he has a fetish of some kind. Well, he’s not doing a very good job of fulfilling that fetish. There are like a billion promising young point guards in this league. The Blazers might actually STILL have the worst PG rotation among playoff contenders in the West.

This is getting old.

by Nick Van Excellent on Nov 30, 2009 7:57 AM PST up reply actions

P.S.

I can almost guarantee that Nate is telling Miller to shoot threes. When Andre played in Philly he said he didn’t shoot behind the arc because the coaching staff told him not to. He’s attempting more than twice as many three pointers per game in Portland than he did under Cheeks.

There’s a ten year blueprint on how to play Andre Miller effectively. If Nate can’t get the most out of Miller then he can’t get the most out of anyone.

by Nick Van Excellent on Nov 30, 2009 8:18 AM PST up reply actions

Perhaps an overstatement, so let me fix it

If Nate can’t get the most out of Miller then it looks like he can’t get the most out of any PG.

Is that better?

Well, not true, I think he’s been getting the most out of Blake for a couple of years.

The problem is that Nate has chosen to build his offense primarily around an on the ball SG. That is understandable when you have Brandon Roy, but it is also limited.

But an offense built around Brandon Roy is never going to get the most out of a true PG, but out of a combo guard who virtually plays SG on offense.

"Woulda, Coulda, Mighta and Shoulda – the Four Horsemen of the Procrastocalypse" - Red-5

by jscot on Nov 30, 2009 9:13 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs

It sounds like we need to change offenses

Clearly the best offense featuring on the ball SG is the triangle. Maybe we need to swap Rambis or Phil Jackson for Nate.

by NWfan on Nov 30, 2009 11:28 AM PST up reply actions

Yeah.

He got the most out of Blake last season, which wasn’t enough. That doesn’t say a lot about where Blake is as a player.

by Nick Van Excellent on Nov 30, 2009 5:26 PM PST up reply actions

Not if Blake gets re-signed

Nate will never allow it!

by VinnyB on Nov 30, 2009 4:59 AM PST reply actions

Rodrigue Beaubois can play off the ball adequately and defend well against opposing 1s; therefore, he's a ...

optimal fit next to Jason Kidd, who’s ball dominant and is physically built to defend best against opposing wing players. Now, the problem with starting Brandon Roy with Jerryd Bayless is that they’re both ball dominant. As it is, Bayless is best used right now as a change-of-pace guy off the bench at the 2 whenever Roy receives his 4 to 6 minute breather each half.

That way, Bayless can then play his me-first game — which involves pounding the ball and driving to the basket like a gunner with his head down looking to score or draw a foul — without clashing with Roy.

For Bayless, Rudy Fernandez is the best backcourt partner for him on offense. Unfortunately, though, those two aren’t the greatest on-ball defenders — as Fernandez is beaten off the dribble easily, while Bayless commits a ton of boneheaded ticky-tack fouls and can’t fight through screens worth a damn — although the Spaniard has thus far displayed a knack for overplaying the passing lanes successfully as a solid help defender.

Dear Paul Allen:

Fire Nate McMillan & hire Jeff Van Gundy.

Sincerely,
AK1984

by AK1984 on Nov 30, 2009 5:21 AM PST reply actions

well said

...and that's a good thing

by In Walks Rudy on Nov 30, 2009 9:13 AM PST up reply actions

would you describe Roy's game

as “me-first” as well?

I wish you would if you’re going to bash on Bayless for his need to play with the ball in his hands, when Roy apparently plays about as well off the ball as Bayless does.

by pdxlifer on Nov 30, 2009 9:22 AM PST up reply actions

Roy's developed that aspect of his game, and earned his ball-dominance. He's also a 2, whereas PGs are expected to get everyone involved, Roy's high assist total is gravy for a SG.

by Marvin100 on Nov 30, 2009 5:13 PM PST up reply actions

The problem with Bayless taking Blake's minutes....

Is that Blake is the only point guard that is a reliable threat as an outside shooter. Next to Roy, Nate clearly values outside shooting in his point guard. I believe it is the sole reason why Blake continues to get excessive minutes, despite his plethora of flaws. He is the only point guard that can be Roy’s safety valve on offense and take those flaming bag kick outs and do something with them. It frustrates me as much as anyone, but it is what it is at this point. When Bayless proves he can be a threat as a spot up shooter, and at least adequate at running an offense, he will get the minutes most want him to…

RUDY > MJ

by Rudiculous on Nov 30, 2009 7:32 AM PST reply actions

The Blake who is 30 for 83 this year? That reliable outside threat?

Ceterum censeo Lakers esse delendam

by Norsktroll on Nov 30, 2009 8:49 AM PST up reply actions

haha

History is on Blake’s side, but yes, he has had a down year so far shooting the ball. I haven’t been shy about saying it either, because if Blake isn’t knocking down those jumpers, he isn’t really doing anything. 36% from 3 is still better than Bayless’s 20% and Andre’s 14% though, and I imagine Nate expects him to break out of his slump(if you can call it that after 19 games).

RUDY > MJ

by Rudiculous on Nov 30, 2009 11:41 AM PST up reply actions

Actually it’s not so much a slump as going back to where he started out his career, around 35 to 38 percent. Another problem with shooting so many threes is: It’s the shot that draws the least fouls. Bayless shoots worse from outside (while that certainly can increase as he learns), but also draws a ton more fouls than Blake ever will. Similar with Miller, who should just stop shooting any threes and always take it inside for a jumper, layup or floater. I suspect he’s not healthy at the moment though.

Ceterum censeo Lakers esse delendam

by Norsktroll on Nov 30, 2009 12:07 PM PST up reply actions

Too many new people to incorporate

Brandon is already complaining that things aren’t the same as last year…and with Greg needing touches and Martell being more of an offensive threat than Batum last year, adding Bayless to the starting lineup will make things even worse for Brandon. Bayless needs usage and minutes to get better…I doubt he’d get the usage on the first unit than he would coming off the bench.

Cloudy is Sergio. Makes other people look good, can’t score himself. -Cablinasian

by Philthyanimal on Nov 30, 2009 7:56 AM PST reply actions

personally

I’m sick of this thought that we can only have one dribble penetration style player on the floor at a time. We’re always talking about conserving Brandon for the playoffs by reducing his minutes, and/or giving him a break when he slacks off a bit on defense, but we’re forgetting that he’s a 3 point threat, too. I’m not a huge J-Bay fan, but what I do love about his game is the chaos he creates in the lane. Chaos that both our big men and 3 point shooters can take advantage of if he learns to see the floor, and chaos that, should Roy chose not to take the 3, he can throw a pump fake and then take advantage of in the lane. My point is this, why have Brandon work hard to make it easy on someone else, when we can adapt by using Bayless, or Miller and make them work harder to make it easy for him?

by JudgeDridge on Nov 30, 2009 8:48 AM PST reply actions

"I’m sick of this thought that we can only have one dribble penetration style player on the floor at a time." ME TOO!

Didn’t Roy and Jarrett Jack play fine together? And Jack drove to the whole practically every time he touched the ball. He was our points in the paint. Playing Bayless seems like a great idea with little downside. Although Bayless is really a backup 2 and not a 1 at all.

...and that's a good thing

by In Walks Rudy on Nov 30, 2009 9:17 AM PST up reply actions

Not to mention that Blake has 2 options: shoot or swing-

We could use an outlet that can shoot swing OR DRIVE if they close out too fast. It’s a race, Rudy learns to drive or Bayless to shoot

Please, for the love of all that is holy, please stop using the following: "Book it.", "FTW", "Epic" & "Fail".

...no seriously--stop.

by nima on Nov 30, 2009 12:19 PM PST via mobile up reply actions

Rudy needs to learn to play point

Because the dude LOVES to make pretty passes. Arvydas Sabonis smiles when Rudy gets the ball. Rudy and Roy would be far superior to any of our other PG options.

by pdxlifer on Nov 30, 2009 9:24 AM PST reply actions

Rudys passes seem to come organically/oportunistically rather than through plays

Cloudy is Sergio. Makes other people look good, can’t score himself. -Cablinasian

by Philthyanimal on Nov 30, 2009 10:14 AM PST up reply actions

so thats perfect isn't it?

If you can make plays out of nothing, how can you not expect him to make clean passes when a play is drawn up.

by pdxlifer on Nov 30, 2009 11:04 AM PST up reply actions

He doesn't have the handle to be a PG and he can't guard PGs.

by Marvin100 on Nov 30, 2009 5:14 PM PST up reply actions

ans move bayless up

And have him back up 1 & 2.

by facetious on Nov 30, 2009 9:55 AM PST via mobile reply actions

&/or

by facetious on Nov 30, 2009 9:55 AM PST via mobile reply actions

He is a 1

He doesn’t have the wingspan to play the 2. Its not his game. He scores like a PG. He does it with the ball. He can play off the ball and his shot is developing but his strength is his ability to break down the defense and create easy assist and offensive rebound opportunities.

by Kaanyr Vhok on Nov 30, 2009 12:05 PM PST reply actions