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Game 5 Recap: Blazers 91, Hawks 97

Is this a dagger which I see before me?  Oh no wait, that's Macbeth.

More photos » Sam Forencich - NBAE/Getty Images

Is this a dagger which I see before me? Oh no wait, that's Macbeth.

The Blazers followed a familiar script in their 97-91 stumble against the Hawks tonight.  Let's call it their version of Hamlet, circa 2009-2010.

"This is the very ecstasy of love"

The first quarter started well, as if the team had put its woes behind.  Brandon Roy and LaMarcus Aldridge carried the scoring, the latter looking as good as we've seen this season.  The Hawks had no real answer for either.  Greg Oden, meanwhile, looked like he was about three feet taller than the nearest Atlanta player on every rebound.  The Blazers controlled the ball and the game.  On the defensive end they worked hard to keep the Hawks away from the hoop, forcing them to settle for jumpers.  They made sure Atlanta collected no second chances.  Few and far between were layups or free throws for the Hawks until the final dregs of the quarter.  And by then it looked to be too late.  Portland was up 25-15 at home, apparently demonstrating that athletic and skilled beats just athletic.

"A little more than kin, and less than kind"

The Hawks announced their presence quickly in the second period, showing that they were every bit as skilled and determined as the Blazers.  Their made buckets to start the quarter read like this:  three-pointer, 3 free throws off of a three-point foul, assisted dunk, assisted layup, 2 free throws.  Most of their makes for the rest of the quarter were assisted and they continued to get to the line.  The Blazers weren't doing poorly on offense themselves.  LaMarcus Aldridge continued hot with Oden bulling his way inside and Travis hitting Trout-like jumpers.  But the Atlanta attack was more focused, more energetic, and produced better looks and more extra points consistently.  At the end of the half Portland found itself up by only 1.  Once again a hot start had faded under a lack of sustained energy and concentration.

"What a piece of work is man! how noble in reason! how infinite in faculty! in form and moving how express and admirable! in action how like an angel! in apprehension how like a god! the beauty of the world, the paragon of animals!"

Indeed, but man still has to rebound if man wants to win a basketball game and the Blazers just didn't.  Greg Oden, pinned with three fouls from the first half, started the period on the bench in favor of Joel Przybilla.  Joel played with energy but he couldn't keep Al Horford from scoring or the Hawks from offensive rebounding.  Atlanta collected 5 of their 11 offensive boards in this period.  Their team offense wasn't as productive or penetrating as it had been in the second quarter but Joe Johnson made up for it by finally coming alive after a lackluster first half.  The Blazers offense stalled under a barrage of non-passes and lofted jumpers.  Martell Webster was the only guy who could claim a reasonably hot hand in the period and his outburst was brief.  Having scored 21 in the period the Blazers found themselves down 3 entering the fourth.

"To D, or not to D: that is the question"

By this time it was becoming quite apparent that the game was going to be a slugfest with the more intense, physical team winning.  Atlanta began to push the Blazers around.  Portland responded to being pushed by running their turtle formation:  one guy gets the ball, makes a move, and heaves a jumper.  Much of the time that guy was Brandon Roy.  To Brandon's credit he did break the mold a little and try to drive, but seeing that the Blazers were passing like your grandma in a Smart Car, the Hawks simply swarmed him every time he put the ball on the floor.  This led to a lot of bobbles and tough shots.  Travis Outlaw, LaMarcus Aldridge, and Andre Miller all tried their hands at going one-on-one but their success was minimal.  Be that as it may, the game was still up for grabs had the Blazers been able to match Atlanta's intensity on defense.  They couldn't.  The Hawks made 6 layups or dunks in the period, some in transition, some off of bad rotations.  Greg Oden looked tentative playing with four fouls and trying not to pick up his fifth.  He did anyway.  Because Portland needed offense to catch up Joel Przybilla wasn't a good option so they went small.  This led to disaster, as that small unit played defense like they had never seen the hardwood or each other before.  When you're playing LaMarcus at center and he gets stuck out above the three-point line defending the opposing point guard you did something wrong.  It happened twice.  Watching your shooting guards try and stop their power forward from scoring at the rim makes your eyes hurt.  Oden re-entered the game with 3:03 remaining and put a stop to most of the inside scoring but by then the game was balanced on a precipice.  Joe Johnson and Jamal Crawford pushed it over the edge by hitting jumpers and drawing fouls, neither of which Portland could have really stopped at that point.  End result?  97-91 Hawks and the Blazers leave the court with their heads down, 2-3 on the season, 1-2 on their supposedly invincible home court.

"That it should come to this!"

Once again there were few glaring weaknesses evident for the Blazers.  (We'll get to those few in a moment.)  The team simply bowed to an opponent's superior, sustained energy and failed to execute in a way that covered for, rather than exacerbated, its mistakes.  You could see the talent evident on this team.  Four different guys got red hot on the offensive end at different times.  The Blazers dominated the boards and the interior for stretches.  They found favorable matchups throughout the game.  But that talent couldn't pull together for 48 minutes nor could any individual carry the team on both ends for that long.  Too many holes appeared.  Too many minutes went by without quality looks.  Too many opponent drives went through too easily.  Most importantly of all, the team didn't step up to the same level Atlanta did when the game was on the line.  The parts were there.  They didn't come together as a whole.

"Though this be madness, yet there is method in it."

You can see what the Blazers are trying to do offensively.  They feel they have matchup advantages and they're trying to exploit them.  And they're correct!  Brandon Roy can take most anybody in the league.  LaMarcus Aldridge, Greg Oden, Travis Outlaw, and Rudy Fernandez all create trouble for their opponents.  Despite that the offense isn't really succeeding because though the Blazers often field five dangerous players on a given offensive set they only end up using two.  On the plays where the ball goes to a third guy it's usually an open shot or drive, both yielding a high rate of success.  But most of the time the opponent is reading Portland's intent, giving help, and forcing the Blazers to make decisions they don't appear ready for.  Those decisions too often default to a forced shot off the dribble. 

If a play runs by design the Blazers score.  After a play breaks down they look lost.  Part of it may be players trying to do too much.  I suspect part of it is that the Blazers are trying to run a flex offense that creates many options off of simple sets like the high screen and roll.  But only the players near the ball seem to be reading the offense and they're the ones being bothered most by defenders and thus able to do the least.  Guys off the ball look clueless much of the time.  Thus the offense stalls.

"Do you think I am easier to be played on than a pipe?" 

Game after game the Blazers are dealing with shortcomings in the point guard department.  Part of the offensive confusion just mentioned can be laid at their feet even though Portland does put the ball in the scorers' hands as often as the distributors.  In addition you can look at the utter lack of conversions (Blake and Miller combined for a 3-16 shooting night tonight) as part of the reason the Blazers aren't finding better options when the first thrust is blunted.  But the biggest issue of all is that team are starting to intentionally run plays at the Blazer point guards.  In my game preview I said that Portland couldn't let Mike Bibby go off and they didn't.  He scored only 7 points on 3-10 shooting with 5 assists.  Jamal Crawford, however, destroyed the Blazers with 27 points and 7 assists.  Granted with Portland's switching, rotating defense no individual gets credited with stopping or allowing the production of any given opponent.  Nevertheless, these are guards running at our guards and our guards aren't handling them.  Blake isn't.  Miller isn't.  Rudy isn't when he's in there.  Brandon isn't either.  But Brandon and Rudy at least provide (or potentially provide) strengths which counterbalance the deficits.  Combine defense with the pathetic shooting and lack of coordination amongst our point guards right now and there aren't enough assists in the world to fill that hole.  It's turning into a net loss on the Blazers' ledger most every night and that's a problem.

"When sorrows come, they come not single spies, but in battalions" 

The Blazers probably don't need a major facelift.  The issue here isn't personnel...or it's not just personnel anyway.  Portland is letting small mistakes evolve into larger problems, partially through repetition but also through distraction and not dealing well with things going wrong.  The team that couldn't lose last year all of a sudden can't keep from tripping over itself.  You could read it on the faces of the players as they left the court tonight.  That confidence is gone.  The good news is that it's a mental fix which theoretically just takes some commitment followed by positive feedback on the court.  The bad news is that mental fixes are hard to identify, let alone enact.  More trust in each other, more focus, more hustle, more confidence...until the Blazers show these things to each other and the teams they face it won't matter who you shuffle in there or how hot they get.  The road will be uphill all the way.

"This above all: to thine own self be true" 

The good news is that it's early and we know the Blazers can do this.  They haven't hit their spark in the first five games of the season.  They have 77 more in which to find it.  When they do the Blazers you're used to are going to come back.  I'll repeat something I said during last week's podcast:  this team is going to go on a couple of whopping winning jags this season, the kind that let you dream way above their heads.  But those winning streaks alone won't be enough to take them where they want to go.  The season will be decided by what happens in between on the nights when they're off and have to fight and claw.  We know this team can do it.  They just need to rediscover who they are.

Individual Notes (briefly)

Greg Oden did pretty much what he was supposed to, bowling over and through the smaller Atlanta centers on his way to 8 points and 9 rebounds in 16 minutes.  That said, he only played 16 minutes on a night when we needed 30 and Atlanta had a far easier time when he was out.

LaMarcus Aldridge had a fantastic game with 20 points and 14 rebounds in 40 minutes.  His battle with Josh Smith was fun to watch.  He was one of the Blazers giving effort tonight.

Brandon Roy had a hard time keeping his hands on the ball and despite hitting some great shots early he was handcuffed most of the second half.  Atlanta basically threw everything at him and dared the Blazers to beat them with somebody else.  The strategy worked.  19 points and 6 assists but only 3 free throws.

Travis Outlaw tied Roy's production with 19 points in 23 minutes on 7-15 shooting and also appeared to enjoy playing the Atlanta forwards.  It was a good offensive game for him but he'll also be remembered for a possession late in the fourth wherein the Blazers desperately needed a three-point shot, got it to Travis wide open, and with two seconds left on the shot clock he passed up the three, drove, and had to force a shot against the buzzer missing badly.  It wasn't the only mistake of the evening by a Blazer but it was a painful one.

Speaking of painful, Rudy Fernandez had a painful night.  He shot 1 of 5 and had the Atlanta commentators remarking that he was "just running around with a lot of energy but not really going anywhere".  Between questionable decisions and risky defense you wonder some nights if he gives up as many as he scores.  When he's on life is fantastic, but the Blazers haven't been able to rely on him yet.

We won't belabor the point guard issue.  Everybody else had an in-between night with flashes of good and bad.  Enough said.

Final Thoughts

Only one:  Time to man up against San Antonio.

Links and Jersey Contest Results

Boxscore

Check out the opposing reaction at PeachTreeHoops.com

You can view your Jersey Contest scores for this game here.

And you can enter your predictions for the Spurs game here.

Please bookmark both of those links, as they will remain constant throughout the season.

--Dave (blazersub@yahoo.com)

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Comments

Display:

Hard to believe you could do a recap

With out mentioning Nate’s[insert your word] coaching

by southern oregon on Nov 3, 2009 11:40 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

easy way out

I’m sure he is trying to avoid that, it must be killing him inside…

Let out the HATE young blazerwalker, you don’t know the power of the darkside!

"No disrespect to Jeff Blake"

by Eat Politicians on Nov 3, 2009 11:57 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Bad game..

and bad jersey contest score.

sigh

by brioe162 on Nov 3, 2009 11:44 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

So that’s how you bold…

by brioe162 on Nov 3, 2009 11:44 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Nate needs to trust his team

I disagree with his comments after the game that the Blazers lacked effort. They didn’t. The problem is in execution, and a lot of this, imo, is a direct result of tentativeness and indecision among the players caused by the same negative traits in the schemes/rotations of Coach Mac. Some of the moves tonight struck me as a coach flailing wildly looking for an idea that would take. While in game adjustments are critical, so is the master plan – right now, there is no rhyme or reason to what Nate is going to do from minute to minute, and it shows in the on court product.

I hate Comcast.
Card carrying member of Team Bayless
I believe in Greg Oden

by blazeraddict on Nov 3, 2009 11:50 PM PST reply actions   3 recs

Stop calling almost all of the plays from the Bench

Put Miller in the Starting Line-up, Sit down, and let the team play.

by ralphzillo on Nov 4, 2009 11:11 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

The best center rotation in the league is 14 feet of useless if both are on the pine

I hate Comcast.
Card carrying member of Team Bayless
I believe in Greg Oden

by blazeraddict on Nov 4, 2009 12:01 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I suspect Nate learned his lesson on that one

He’s struggling at this point along with the team. It’s taken a perfect storm to get this talented team a 2-3 record. But I’m sure Nate will get it together in time, along with the players. It’s a long season.

But in the meanwhile…didn’t Hamlet commit suicide? Better keep an eye on our more emotionally fragile BE brethren.

"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla

by hurryup09 on Nov 4, 2009 12:04 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I hope so

I would much rather see Portland play to its strengths and force the opponents to adjust than the other way around

I hate Comcast.
Card carrying member of Team Bayless
I believe in Greg Oden

by blazeraddict on Nov 4, 2009 12:10 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Or give them a gun ...

… with instructions on how not to botch the job.

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Nov 4, 2009 8:38 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Great Analysis, but you forgot to include Nate

Nate made even more suspect moves with his matchups/lineups tonight.

He had Rudy guarding Marvin Williams at one point. Nate…NOT DO THIS…EVER.

2 quick things for Nate:
-
- When the opposing team has a player going off on us, consider putting someone who PLAYS HARD ON DEFENSE on said player.

- When the opposing team starts attacking the rim over and over, consider putting in A TRUE CENTER
-

I hope that Nate will get a cohesive unit and rotation going sooner rather than later, it’s costing us games.

Enjoy the Ride

by DigitalDaggers on Nov 3, 2009 11:56 PM PST reply actions   2 recs

unfortunately true

“minutes” politics may kill our record this season…

"No disrespect to Jeff Blake"

by Eat Politicians on Nov 3, 2009 11:59 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

"...someone who PLAYS HARD ON DEFENSE..."

I think all our guys try their best on defense. I agree with blazeraddict that the problem isn’t a lack of effort. Change your comment to knows how to play solid individual and team defense and I think you have a winner. The question then is… who?

How many times did Mike Rice comment last night that the second unit looked lost on defense? The players are struggling to put it all together. Defense only works well when everyone knows how to read and react correctly to what an offense is doing. Our players are not at that point yet.

Greg was fouling at last year’s torrid rate, so I agree with Nate wanting to save him for the last few minutes. He collected five fouls but didn’t foul-out. Nate would like to have kept Joel in the game for defense, but the offense was sputtering and he needed five players who can score.

by MiledAnimal on Nov 4, 2009 11:01 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

i don't know what mike rice said

because i was sitting courtside. i’m that dude with the moustache that caught travis as he saved the ball last night.

“I think all our guys try their best on defense”

i basically just flat-out disagree. i think that the effort (or maybe talent?) from some players on defense is lacking. but you are right, our players do seem a little “lost” sometimes…part of that is on the players getting a feel for one another, part of that is nate letting players find a groove.

Greg picked up his 5th foul late, and Joel had only 2 fouls. Sorry, Nate…we don’t need more offense at the center spot when the other team is beating us in the paint.

Enjoy the Ride

by DigitalDaggers on Nov 4, 2009 12:22 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Gut check time indeed.....

so, SA….. must win?? We need some damage control or this team will be playing from it’s heels all season.

by Bump22 on Nov 4, 2009 12:00 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn't go so far as must win

Maybe more of a must play well. San Antonio is a team that can beat Portland even if Portland brings its best game, but it would be nice to see a crisper effort.

I hate Comcast.
Card carrying member of Team Bayless
I believe in Greg Oden

by blazeraddict on Nov 4, 2009 12:02 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Great post after a depressing game, Dave

A truly Shakespearean effort. Some of the wiser hoops-prophets among us predicted that this team would struggle out of the gate as it assimilated new members (Miller, Martell, & a re-vamped GO) and attempted to absorb the lessons of last year’s playoff flameout.

I wasn’t among those prescient fans. But I do recognize that what counts in the marathon that is an NBA season is how your team plays down the stretch and in the playoffs. And I see nothing—outside of the point guards’ perimeter defense, perhaps—that isn’t likely to be fixed in time. Nate isn’t making things better with his erratic coaching, granted. But I don’t doubt that he’ll settle down along with the rest of the team.

As for those issues with the guards’ defense: unfortunately, that may be a problem that can only be fixed over the off-season. But last year’s team had the same problem and still won a lot of games and made the playoffs. At the very least, I think we can expect to see that much success this year. Miller IS an upgrade over Sergio Rodriguez.

"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla

by hurryup09 on Nov 4, 2009 12:01 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

The worry I have with that solid logic

is this: What if the rest of the West has improved more dramatically than Portland? LA is still loaded, SA re-tooled, Carmelo Anthony is playing like a man possessed, Utah is dangerous if healthy, etc. This year’s team, by the end of the year, may very well be better than last year’s. However, the W/L column and playoffs may not show that if the field has upped its game dramatically. We won’t know until later on in the year, but the thought is beginning to cross my mind…

I hate Comcast.
Card carrying member of Team Bayless
I believe in Greg Oden

by blazeraddict on Nov 4, 2009 12:06 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Good point

But remember, the injury factor is always huge in the NBA thanks to the long season. The Blazers have already been hit and hit hard (Batum), but other contenders will suffer as well. And when they do, few are as well-equipped to deal with injuries as the Blazers, thanks to the Blazers’ unusual depth and its youth.

(For the same reason, I react to the Celtics’ fast start with a big yawn. With all the geezers on that team, multiple, debilitating injuries are all but inevitable. Just watch: the Mighty Celtics won’t come out of the East this season.)

"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla

by hurryup09 on Nov 4, 2009 12:14 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I shudder at the thought of Batum in the lineup....

and how Nate’s tinkering would look right now… It would probably be worse.

"You can lose lots of money chasing women, but you will NEVER lose women chasing money. " - Mr.Landis

by Bump22 on Nov 4, 2009 12:16 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I disagree

Batum’s length and nose for the ball cause major problems for opposing offenses. He blocks shots, gets steals, and then gets out on the break to capitalize. Plus, unlike Martell, Batum had no rust to get off or need to re-familarize himself with his teammates.

With all due respect for Martell’s great effort this season, Batum’s loss has hurt a lot in my opinion. But he’ll be back, and so will this Blazer team. It’s just hard to watch them right now…

"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla

by hurryup09 on Nov 4, 2009 12:25 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You cant pin this on Martell. He is playing his arse off compared to a lot of other guys out there.

by trautmatizer on Nov 4, 2009 12:27 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Not pinning this on Martell in the least

He’s playing with a lot of heart & desire. Read what I said again…

"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla

by hurryup09 on Nov 4, 2009 12:28 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Read it again. Dont see much rust at all. Batum’s defense is missed. Noted.

by trautmatizer on Nov 4, 2009 12:30 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

batum

would add great depth to the team.

but having him active doesn’t solve the issues that need solving.

Enjoy the Ride

by DigitalDaggers on Nov 4, 2009 12:30 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

no way

I don’t think having Batum would’ve made us worse at all. An additional good perimeter defender is always a plus.

by blazerbeliever on Nov 4, 2009 12:30 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The dropoff in defense from Batum to Marty this year

is not as significant as we want to believe….

"You can lose lots of money chasing women, but you will NEVER lose women chasing money. " - Mr.Landis

by Bump22 on Nov 4, 2009 12:31 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not saying that Marty is better or worse...

I’m just saying that having an “additional” good defender would be nice, and who knows what kind of options that would give us. Not gonna dwell on this too much though. Like Digital Daggers said, " having him active doesn’t solve the issues that need solving."

by blazerbeliever on Nov 4, 2009 12:35 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Geez, no kidding.

Batum didn’t get enough minutes last year, when Martell wasn’t around. Now when Trout needs to be showcased? Fat chance.

formerly rockingharder

by Mr. Knox on Nov 4, 2009 7:20 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Are you a marathon runner by chance? :)

The long term approach is the healthy one. Gen Yers like myself could stand to learn a thing or two, lol

I hate Comcast.
Card carrying member of Team Bayless
I believe in Greg Oden

by blazeraddict on Nov 4, 2009 12:19 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, I'm a baby boomer, but I yell at the t.v. the same as you probably do

Watching your team struggle isn’t fun for anyone. But you have to try and take the long view.

"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla

by hurryup09 on Nov 4, 2009 12:27 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The same here.

My wife gets pissed at me for all the yelling I do watching the games.

But I don’t bring all that frustration to places like BE and vent my hate (and show my ignorance) by constantly blaming
   - specific players

   - the coach

   - the GM

I’m still working on extending this to the refs. But blaming the officials runs deep.

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Nov 4, 2009 8:44 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Officials are scum, of course

The only lower form of human life is their greedy overlord: David Stern.

"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla

by hurryup09 on Nov 4, 2009 12:17 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

One thing....

got it to Travis wide open, and with two seconds left on the shot clock he passed up the three, drove, and had to force a shot against the buzzer missing badly. It wasn’t the only mistake of the evening by a Blazer but it was a painful one.

Sure wasn’t…. Roy going under a screen and letting Joe Johnson get all day and a mile for a back breaking 3 hurt like hell too

by Bump22 on Nov 4, 2009 12:02 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

It is time for Bayless.

Bring on Bayless. You know he is going to give 100 percent on both ends of the court. I’m tired of watching no defense from the other two.

by trautmatizer on Nov 4, 2009 12:04 AM PST reply actions   1 recs

He played well in the pre-season

and heaven knows this team needs a spark. Also, aside from Roy, is there a Blazer in the rotation who gets to the line/rim with regularity? Take down the fences

I hate Comcast.
Card carrying member of Team Bayless
I believe in Greg Oden

by blazeraddict on Nov 4, 2009 12:08 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Mac is too stubborn. We have seen this before. Look at Frye in Phoenix. Sorry, but Nate’s system is starting to suck and he doesnt give chances when they are deserved.

by trautmatizer on Nov 4, 2009 12:09 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Do you truly think Channing Frye's problems were Nate's fault?

Sure, with more minutes his shot would have been more consistent. The guy can shoot the ball, no question. But he flat cannot play in the paint, and the Blazers needed that from him.

"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla

by hurryup09 on Nov 4, 2009 12:31 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

That’s why I said in another post that its all about the system. The guy is born again in phoenix and a lot of that is confidence. He had no confidence in portland and that can be attributed to nate.

by trautmatizer on Nov 4, 2009 12:33 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'd attribute it to his role

And that he isn’t as good as LMA, and can’t play center for a regular team. PHX ain’t regular.

Minutes create confidence, but as long as we had a better PF/C in front of him, Frye wasn’t ever gonna be able to produce how he is doing in PHX.

I am very happy for Frye, and I predicted he’d do well there since he has ALWAYS done well when he has gotten minutes, but it just wouldn’t be possible for us because of the players we got. Not the coach.

Morty

by Mortimer on Nov 4, 2009 12:38 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Well right now we have a situation where we have a mustang fenced up on the bench at point guard. When do you start blaming Nate when we continue to lose games because of poor point guard play. Halfway into the season?

by trautmatizer on Nov 4, 2009 12:40 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I dunno if Bayless is the answer...

I like Bayless, I really like his potential, but do you see him being more effective than Miller?

Miller can get to the rim as well, and is a much better passer and much headier player… I’d say the bigger problem is the splitting of the minutes and playing Blake over Miller, and not integrating the better player with the others yet.

For a team lacking consistency and control, I dunno if Bayless is the answer. I’d think he wouldn’t be.

For a team that is under control, consistent, and needing a raw spark to ravage the other team, the answer would be Bayless.

Morty

by Mortimer on Nov 4, 2009 12:42 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

I agree. Miller needs to start because he is a better point guard. But, you cant continue to sit bayless. He needs to play to show what he can do. You cant show what you can do if you dont play, period.

by trautmatizer on Nov 4, 2009 12:44 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Potential needs to be manifested into material somehow.

by trautmatizer on Nov 4, 2009 12:45 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Honestly... Miller/Bayless

Would be an even trade off… you get two players bent on getting to the rim with both… Miller is a liability behind the arc, so players will simply play back behind a screen and let him shoot all day preferring to clog the lane to slash…

You can’t do that with Bayless, because he will hit a trey…

However, u lose the ability to dish and the vision Miller has… Bayless , from the small sample size we have on him.. Is not good pushing the ball.

"You can lose lots of money chasing women, but you will NEVER lose women chasing money. " - Mr.Landis

by Bump22 on Nov 4, 2009 12:44 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Bayless hasn't shown he can hit the trey since college

They’d dare him to shoot just the same, and we lose the great passing ability Miller brings.

I really do think Bayless can be a very nice fit next to Roy, but with how we’re playing, consistency is what we need… not developing a raw point guard.

We’re developing Oden on the job, that’s more than enough development for a team that is supposed to be good.

Morty

by Mortimer on Nov 4, 2009 12:47 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Again. We are back to the confidence issue and Nate not bestowing it on his team. Growth stunting.

by trautmatizer on Nov 4, 2009 12:48 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

If Bayless isn't better for the team than those in front of him

How is the coach supposed to magically give him confidence?

Not everyone can play. A young player with potential— potential unrealized yet, with better players on front of him— will not play on a good team. Unless they are an Oden type of player.

And I’d say Oden is our best center, so it’s not the same at all.

What does it do for the confidence and attitude of the vets to get sat down for the young pup who didn’t earn his role yet?

M—

by Mortimer on Nov 4, 2009 12:50 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Do you seriously think that if blake played bayless one on one that he would win? That is silly.

by trautmatizer on Nov 4, 2009 12:54 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Unfortunately...

it’s a 5 on 5 game.

"You can lose lots of money chasing women, but you will NEVER lose women chasing money. " - Mr.Landis

by Bump22 on Nov 4, 2009 12:57 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

What in the galaxy does that matter?

Do we play 1 on 1 in the NBA?

Jarrett Jack would beat Blake one on one too. He also would turn over the ball a lot, isn’t a good shooter or playmaker, and was very frustrating to watch.

What made you think I am basing anything I am saying on an imaginary one on one game?

M—

by Mortimer on Nov 4, 2009 12:57 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Play the better player. Blake has zero potential. Bayless has loads. Our window will not open until he plays and improves. Playing blake now just keeps it shut longer.

by trautmatizer on Nov 4, 2009 12:59 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You weren't discouraged by Rex's play in the summer league??

at all??

"You can lose lots of money chasing women, but you will NEVER lose women chasing money. " - Mr.Landis

by Bump22 on Nov 4, 2009 1:00 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

were you encouraged the year before?

by trautmatizer on Nov 4, 2009 1:02 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You mean by the Nets game??

"You can lose lots of money chasing women, but you will NEVER lose women chasing money. " - Mr.Landis

by Bump22 on Nov 4, 2009 1:02 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I meant when he was summer league player of the year. He should have been backing up blake over sergio all of last year. This year he would have been on track for drastic improvements. Instead, we have steve blake to trust for a championship. Not going to happen!

by trautmatizer on Nov 4, 2009 1:04 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Ahhhh

yes the year before, Summer League… ok.. so yes, he goes from xtraordinary then to awful…. I dont see how we can go forward with enthusiasm when the man has went backwards in progression..

"You can lose lots of money chasing women, but you will NEVER lose women chasing money. " - Mr.Landis

by Bump22 on Nov 4, 2009 1:04 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

He was trying to be a PG

I find the effort encouraging, but he’s still developing.

And developing at PG is extremely rough to do on a good team.

M—

by Mortimer on Nov 4, 2009 1:03 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Send him to the D-League then

Westbrook is Bayless with playing time, and that’s crazy. He is better than Rose “Ric Bucher’s MVP tip” so far this year.

But slowly things happen that they cannot help and the Blazers Fellowship of the Ring begins to break apart

by Norsktroll on Nov 4, 2009 1:10 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The problem with sending Bayless to the D-league

Is that he would likely totally dominate, but not actually learn anything relevant to his NBA career.

It would be tough for him, against inferior opponents, to not just do what he did that first summer league. In the 2nd summer league, playing like a real PG is fine for the 5 games or so they play, but in the D-league, in a relatively full season, the urge to not take over would be tough.

I think he needs time with the real coaches, the real players, in practice and in games if we can. I worry that the d-league would more firmly establish his scoring game, which isn’t what we want him to work on.

Morty

by Mortimer on Nov 4, 2009 1:12 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Bayless wants to work on getting out of Portland. Jermaine O’neal #2

by trautmatizer on Nov 4, 2009 1:14 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

And it will happen....

it is inevitable

"You can lose lots of money chasing women, but you will NEVER lose women chasing money. " - Mr.Landis

by Bump22 on Nov 4, 2009 1:15 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Under contract 3 more years, including this one

Way too early to worry about that. He’ll get over it, if he is worth it.

Morty

by Mortimer on Nov 4, 2009 1:16 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Trades are prevalent in the NBA I heard.

by trautmatizer on Nov 4, 2009 1:17 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Ya don't say

Pray tell what reason are we trading Bayless for?

To keep him happy? Who cares if he isn’t happy besides Bayless and his parents? He holds no political sway over the team or the locker room. He is a kid; kids are unhappy.

Ya don’t trade him just because he is sad.

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Nov 4, 2009 1:18 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Did you watch the LMA press conference? We keep character guys. Rex’s character may start to go down the crapper when he doesnt play.

by trautmatizer on Nov 4, 2009 1:19 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Can LMA beat Bayless one on one though?

LMA was bummed during the negotiations, then got happy once it was fixed.

If and when Bayless earns the chance to play, he will be happy and all will be okay in the world. Him being unhappy won’t have much ramifications unless he was an influential player in the locker room or on the court.

Just because a kid is maybe unhappy right now, doesn’t mean he won’t be happy in the future. Especially if he gets what he wants in the future. Right now, he hasn’t done what needs to be done to get minutes.

You only trade him for something better, not just to move him. Jermaine was partially moved because he was unhappy, reportedly, and like Dunleavy said back then— who cares if he was unhappy? When Sabonis retired Jermaine would be the starting center and everything would be okay.

If all goes as planned, in a year or two Bayless is the starter, and he says “yay I am starting” not “boo I didn’t start at first”.

If he isn’t good enough, then it was worth a shot at least.

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Nov 4, 2009 1:24 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

But for the sake of keeping roles and positions earned

And not losing the vets at the PG spot, you can’t just hand Bayless their minutes.

Not till he has proven he deserves them.

That’s all I mean.

Mooo—

by Mortimer on Nov 4, 2009 1:28 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I remember a time when I was young ...

 .. and unhappy. Mainly because I wasn’t getting laid.

But lo and behold, when I got a little older and started getting laid, I was (and am) a happy guy.

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Nov 4, 2009 8:52 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Now you are into what is called ...

… circular reasoning.

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Nov 4, 2009 8:49 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Doesn't start until December anyway

But slowly things happen that they cannot help and the Blazers Fellowship of the Ring begins to break apart

by Norsktroll on Nov 4, 2009 1:15 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

If the coaches and management think he could avoid the urge to dominate

And work on being a basic PG, hey, I’m all for it.

If they don’t send him, I imagine they just think it’s better to keep him with the real coaches.

M—

by Mortimer on Nov 4, 2009 1:17 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Blazers don't seem to have a real d-league strategy anyway

But slowly things happen that they cannot help and the Blazers Fellowship of the Ring begins to break apart

by Norsktroll on Nov 4, 2009 1:18 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I know Mills is going from what KP said

I also know Bayless isn’t, because that would a serious slap in the face for a guy who is easily a backup guard in this league

"What happened to Bayless anyway? Did he turn into a pumpkin? Most teams don’t just let #11 picks rot." - Xiane

by MadBlaze on Nov 4, 2009 2:42 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I still agree that Bayless would be like Westbrook with minutes

Westbrook would be really rough on our team though, what with his rudimentary playmaking (despite the two good assist games), his constant big turnover games, no jumper, etc…

Bayless would look better on a bad team, for sure, and would put up very nice scoring numbers and go to the free throw line a lot.

—M

by Mortimer on Nov 4, 2009 1:19 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

His shot in college was better than Westbrook’s, his defense and rebounding likely wouldn’t be. But just having someone who plays dynamic on that level would be a great weapon.

But slowly things happen that they cannot help and the Blazers Fellowship of the Ring begins to break apart

by Norsktroll on Nov 4, 2009 1:36 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Again, I like Bayless

But our window is Oden-reliant, not Bayless-reliant.

Right now, Bayless is a driver and foul shooter. He hasn’t shown he can hit an outside shot regularly, is not a playmaker, and is an inexperienced defender.

Do you really want to get LESS consistent, with less ball movement, and less shooting?

AGAIN: I like Bayless. But he has to show he can do some of those things before he can play big minutes. I would LOVE it if he could.

My simple formula for the PG playing time would be Miller starting, leaving halfway in the 1st, Blake playing all of his minutes with Roy (but Roy not playing all of his minutes with Blake), and when Roy goes and sits, Miller comes back in and the offense runs through him with LMA and the 2nd unit dudes out there.

That way ya get Miller with Oden, Miller with LMA, and Miller with the non-playmaking bench unit. And you have a shooter next to Roy.

Totally moving Blake to the bench, without minutes with Roy, leaves no playmakers in the 2nd unit. I get that, and that’s why Miller is coming off the bench. I think we can have it both ways though.

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Nov 4, 2009 1:03 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It should have been oden and bayless reliant. Bayless will never play meaningful minutes as a blazer ever with Nate as coach. If he would have been progressed the way he should have been, he would be the backup right now. Thats all i am saying. Good thing Paul allen has some sense to hold onto mills.

by trautmatizer on Nov 4, 2009 1:08 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Hmm

I think Nate is higher on Bayless than most, actually.

He just isn’t developed enough to play PG on a real team yet.

Bayless is under contract for 2 more years AFTER this one. If he is good enough he’ll get his shot.

Morty

by Mortimer on Nov 4, 2009 1:10 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I disagree...

Bayless shouldn’t have to recreate himself.. They should have known what they were getting… Becoming a floor general is not something you can just “teach” in a year or two… It’s almost second nature..

The sooner the Blazers realize that Bayless is not a conventional PG and they are trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, the better they will be.. Let him be a scorer..

Bring him off the bench for some instant juice…

The project never worked with Iverson, it will never work with Bayless.

"You can lose lots of money chasing women, but you will NEVER lose women chasing money. " - Mr.Landis

by Bump22 on Nov 4, 2009 1:11 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not expecting him to ever be a "real" PG

The Bayless Theory is based around him being a scoring guard on offense while Roy handles most of the playmaking, and the guy who defends the PG on defense. I believe that it can become actual, and not just a theory.

But right now, he hasn’t shown he can get us in our basic sets, he hasn’t shown he can hit an outside shot any better than Miller can, and he hasn’t shown the experience needed to defend intelligently yet. I think he definitely has the effort and athleticism to be a good defender, but he is a very inexperienced defender still.

M—

by Mortimer on Nov 4, 2009 1:15 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Which is why...

You let Bayless play with Miller or Roy on the floor.. Let Roy set up the offense.. Don’t put that pressure on a player who can’t do that… Just free Bayless up to get to the rim..

Play to his strengths, not away from them. And you can’t get better at D unless it is hands on… I agree with traum on that

"You can lose lots of money chasing women, but you will NEVER lose women chasing money. " - Mr.Landis

by Bump22 on Nov 4, 2009 1:18 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I will say

That if we’re trying to make Blake be a SG next to Miller, Rudy or Bayless is a much more attractive alternative.

M.

by Mortimer on Nov 4, 2009 1:20 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Sounds like last year with Sergio...

Our point guards each have one good skill:

Miller (Sergio): playmaking
Blake: shooting
Bayless: scoring

And none of them can play defense (right now)!

"Do me a favor. Put your lip over your head... and swallow." Max Goldman

by clinchmobb on Nov 4, 2009 9:23 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Not a fan of Jarrett Jack. Never was.

by trautmatizer on Nov 4, 2009 1:01 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

He'd demolish Blake in an imaginary game of 1 on 1 though

That’s all I’m trying to say— one on one skills, especially at the PG spot, aren’t everything.

—M

by Mortimer on Nov 4, 2009 1:06 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Wasn't that the same type of situation

that saw Miles go from fan favorite to goat?

"She turned me into a newt!
A newt?
...I got better."

by Seijeff on Nov 4, 2009 9:23 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Bayless

can work his three out… Sure, he hasn’t sit it since college… And that is already 100 times more than you can say for Miller who wouldn’t dare shoot a 3 even at Utah.

But, I still agree, Miller should start… And if Miller is still coming off the bench… he needs to keep Bayless on the bench… experience wins out in this case.. It is not worth damaging a potential playoff run at the expense of developing Bayless..

What message does that send to this team?

"You can lose lots of money chasing women, but you will NEVER lose women chasing money. " - Mr.Landis

by Bump22 on Nov 4, 2009 12:49 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with that. Start miller. Bring Bayless off the bench. Blake gets to pick splinters.

by trautmatizer on Nov 4, 2009 12:51 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly

Ya gotta play who is best for the team.

The problem with that to me, right now, is when ya see a Blake/Miller/Roy lineup. Why is Blake out there? How is Rudy or Martell not a lot better than Blake there? Blake is totally superfluous in that lineup.

I do not believe Blake should be playing over Miller AND Rudy. Unless something else is going on we don’t know about.

M—

by Mortimer on Nov 4, 2009 12:51 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The floor

"You can lose lots of money chasing women, but you will NEVER lose women chasing money. " - Mr.Landis

by Bump22 on Nov 4, 2009 12:52 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Completely agreed

that three-guard lineup is terrible and I don’t understand what possible justification could be given to promulgate its use at this point.

"I just sort of know that around the water cooler they talk of reality tv stars, and I strictly drink coffee." -- EvilKaramazov

by BlazersOrBust on Nov 4, 2009 9:05 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Remember three seasons back, when Przy was a basket case?

He got hurt that year. But he later admitted that the other reason he played so badly was that he was looking over his shoulder at Magliore all the time. Przy was starting, but Magliore was killing him in practice. So Przy felt he was going to lose his spot at any time, and he pressed as a result. (Later, Nate explained that he’d started Przy because he didn’t want two plodding post players—Magliore & Zack—out there together.)

My point: I think Blake is struggling in part because he couldn’t play much over the summer. But also, I think the presence of a superior point guard over on the bench has wrecked his confidence. If Miller were given the starting spot, I think Blake would relax, settle into a back-up role, and start nailing those open threes that he’s been missing.

As for Miller: he too looks uncomfortable. It’s hard enough for a point guard to learn a new team, and for them to learn him. But to be coming off the bench when you’re clearly the better player—that’s gonna tend to throw you off your game no matter how much of a pro you are.

"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla

by hurryup09 on Nov 4, 2009 12:28 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

+1

Channing went from a bad fit (limited minutes, asked to be a banger) to a perfect storm (hit jumpers all day and run with Nash). That isn’t on Nate

I hate Comcast.
Card carrying member of Team Bayless
I believe in Greg Oden

by blazeraddict on Nov 4, 2009 12:40 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

And come the playoffs, when you need a real center, the Suns will fade

That’s assuming the Suns make the playoffs. The Buffet of Goodness will put up good numbers this season, and I’m happy for him. What a great guy—seriously. But run & gun isn’t championship basketball. We’ve seen that season after season. And if you’re not building towards a championship, what’s the point?

"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla

by hurryup09 on Nov 4, 2009 12:31 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

they need somebody besides Roy that is hell bent on getting to the rim.. Bayless can do that with an electric first step….I would like to see it from Marty Blazer a little more too.

"You can lose lots of money chasing women, but you will NEVER lose women chasing money. " - Mr.Landis

by Bump22 on Nov 4, 2009 12:12 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It is all about the system. Mac’s half court system is designed for a good defensive team because of the limited amount of touches on offense. If you are going to play that way you need a point guard that can play defense. Thus, insert Bayless and you get penetration at the rim=free throws.

by trautmatizer on Nov 4, 2009 12:14 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Bayless...

Is not a good defender, however, a high effort one.. But not a good one.

"You can lose lots of money chasing women, but you will NEVER lose women chasing money. " - Mr.Landis

by Bump22 on Nov 4, 2009 12:17 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Has he really been given the opportunity. Come on, he was a rookie last year and was playing hell bent for election last year cause he thought he would never get in the game again.

by trautmatizer on Nov 4, 2009 12:18 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I will stick to my original thought..

It cant hurt… and we really should plug him… it just isnt going to happen

"You can lose lots of money chasing women, but you will NEVER lose women chasing money. " - Mr.Landis

by Bump22 on Nov 4, 2009 12:20 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It could hurt, a lot.
  • If the team is 15-30 by the All-Star break, then Nate should play Jerryd a lot.
  • If Jerryd is killing Blake and Miller in practice, hitting threes like layups, dishing dimes like CP-3, and playing outstanding D, then Nate should play him a lot.
  • If Jerryd gets hold of photos of Nate in a compromising position, then Nate should play him a lot.

None of the above has happened, so Jerryd sits.

by MiledAnimal on Nov 4, 2009 11:19 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

I'm Bayless homer/Blake basher

so you have my opinion on where those minutes should come from. But, thinking realistically, how about this: If Nate wants to go small, rather than the atrocious Miller/Blake backcourt with Roy at SF, put Dre at 1, Rex at 2, Rudy at 3, TO/LMA at 4, and LMA/Greg at 5. They could push the pace, and since Rudy and Miller are the only guards committed to feeding the post, it could be good for the bigs as well.

I hate Comcast.
Card carrying member of Team Bayless
I believe in Greg Oden

by blazeraddict on Nov 4, 2009 12:17 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

That is a lineup...

"You can lose lots of money chasing women, but you will NEVER lose women chasing money. " - Mr.Landis

by Bump22 on Nov 4, 2009 12:19 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know how long you could go with it

there are some clear defensive issues at the 2 (which Miller would guard), 3 and 4 (if Trout is in) if another team went big, but it could be a jolt of energy/way to get Rex some time/source of non-Roy iso dependent offense.

I hate Comcast.
Card carrying member of Team Bayless
I believe in Greg Oden

by blazeraddict on Nov 4, 2009 12:23 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Somehow I don't think the primary tenet of Portland's strategy ....

 … is to get the ball in Bayless’ hands and build his confidence.

I don’t know if it is a sign of our society, but the real world used to require that you go out, work hard and earn what you want. Now it appears that we expect things to be given to use, be coddled and have everyone concerned about what they can do to build our confidence.

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Nov 4, 2009 9:01 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Tim, I feel like I have potential as a poster

even though guys like Norsk and Jscot are constantly churning out better, high-quality product. But do you think that you could stop reading and replying to them and just start bumping up my replied-to totals instead? Because that would do wonders for my confidence. Thanks so much big guy!

"I just sort of know that around the water cooler they talk of reality tv stars, and I strictly drink coffee." -- EvilKaramazov

by BlazersOrBust on Nov 4, 2009 9:07 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Sure.

What’s in it for me?

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Nov 4, 2009 9:57 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The sense of dissatisfaction you'd get from contributing to the coddling that both you and I find irksome?

"I just sort of know that around the water cooler they talk of reality tv stars, and I strictly drink coffee." -- EvilKaramazov

by BlazersOrBust on Nov 4, 2009 11:08 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Ok.

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Nov 4, 2009 12:24 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Nono this was lovely!!

The only thing you could have done better was included some gratuitous, unwarranted praise, but not bad for your first go at it.

"I just sort of know that around the water cooler they talk of reality tv stars, and I strictly drink coffee." -- EvilKaramazov

by BlazersOrBust on Nov 4, 2009 6:08 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry. I meant to include the part ...

… about how enjoyable it is to see such a well informed and erudite poster here at BE.

Good looking too.

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Nov 5, 2009 7:40 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

That's not what I'm saying at all

A fair argument can be made that (1) Bayless outplayed both Miller and Blakeat points in the pre-season, (2) Bayless exhibited a level of committment, potential and effort at the defensive end greater than Miller and Blake and (3) based on the defficiencies this team has shown and the poor performance at times of Miller and Blake, it would be worth seeing what Bayless brings to the table in a game situation. I am not saying put him out there for the sake of his ego – that would be silly. However, I believe Jerryd Bayless can hep this team win basketball games in the short and long term, but that will not happen if Nate doesn’t put him out there. Nobody is being given anything.

I hate Comcast.
Card carrying member of Team Bayless
I believe in Greg Oden

by blazeraddict on Nov 4, 2009 11:20 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I know you really are not advocating that.

Still, I don’t see a strong argument for giving Bayless more time, at least based on the reasons often put forth here.

If you don’t mind, I’ll use your point #2 above. While it may be true that Bayless has greater potential defensively than either Miller or Blake, potential based so far solely on his athletic ability, it is not a true statement that he has demonstrated a greater level of commitment and and effort, at least over that of Steve Blake. (I haven’t seen enough of Miller to evaluate how much effort he puts towards defense.)

And even if it did appear that Bayless was expending more effort and energy on defense than the other two when he was on the floor, that still does not mean he’s doing a better job. Remeber Dave talking (quite some time ago) about Ruben Patterson? Most Portland fans – as well as Ruben – thought he was a good defensive player. Turns out the coaching staff and some of this teammates felt differently. Sure Ruben put out a lot of effort, but he also frequently blew assignments and rotations, messing up the rest of the defense.

Granted, Bayless can’t learn the tendencies of the starters without playing time. But that comes only after he’s learned the team’s defensive lineups and strategies. That he can demonstrate in practice. That’s the part about earning it that I’m referring to.

As an aside, I find it interesting that a lot of people are arguing for Bayless to get more time based on his defensive skills. I may be wrong, but Bayless’ game has been based more on offense, not defense. And there he has yet to show he can run the team. That leaves him as the number 3 shooting guard – a position unlikely to get a lot of court time.

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Nov 4, 2009 12:43 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Fair enough

We agree to disagree (and the Patterson on-court comparison is well taken, although I see that as the worst case scenario if Bayless starts to play more). I am on board with the notion Bayless needs to earn game time on his practice performance. However, unless that performance is woefully defficient (which nobody who posts here would know) I don’t agree with Nate sticking with combinations that are not producing results without at least seeing how Bayless’ skills and abilities translate in a game setting. All three of the players primarily taked with guarding the PG slot (which is my qualifier on effective use of Bayless, play him off the ball on offense, have him guard the PG on defense) bring dramatically different things to the table from what we’ve seen in pre-season/games/etc., so I’m inclined to look behind door #3.

BTW, good exhanging ideas with you. I think this is what Dave was talking about in the conduct post a few days back – we’re all Blazer fans, opinions may differ, but discuss things and don’t resort to ad hom attacks on a poster whose views don’t square with your own.

I hate Comcast.
Card carrying member of Team Bayless
I believe in Greg Oden

by blazeraddict on Nov 4, 2009 1:04 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

To fully address your last point
As an aside, I find it interesting that a lot of people are arguing for Bayless to get more time based on his defensive skills. I may be wrong, but Bayless’ game has been based more on offense, not defense. And there he has yet to show he can run the team. That leaves him as the number 3 shooting guard – a position unlikely to get a lot of court time.

which I touched on in my initial response, I am advocating more pt for Bayless to see if his physical gifts will translate to defending the PG slot. I don’t see him as a PG on offense, but the great thing about the roster is you can pair Bayless with another guard (Roy, Rudy, and maybe even Miller based on the matchup at the 2) who can run/facilitate the offense and allow Bayless to be an off ball player, which I think is the best use of his current skill set on that end of the floor.

I hate Comcast.
Card carrying member of Team Bayless
I believe in Greg Oden

by blazeraddict on Nov 4, 2009 1:09 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I will also say...

that lineup is highly matchup dependant… I wouldn’t like that lineup against any of the Lakers lineups… You NEED Pryz/Oden on the floor IMO.

"You can lose lots of money chasing women, but you will NEVER lose women chasing money. " - Mr.Landis

by Bump22 on Nov 4, 2009 12:22 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

See above

I think we’re on the same page with this. Again, I like it for two reasons: (1) get Bayless some run and (2) get some flow in the offense

I hate Comcast.
Card carrying member of Team Bayless
I believe in Greg Oden

by blazeraddict on Nov 4, 2009 12:24 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You could....

field a unit of Miller at 1, Rex at 2, Roy at 3 and then Outlaw and Oden @ 4 and 5..

This would give Gasol/Odom fits whoever plays the 4 against Outlaw.. and isolate Bynum/Oden… it would also create a 1 on 1 matchup with Artest/Odom/Kobe ..

Rex could give fits….

"You can lose lots of money chasing women, but you will NEVER lose women chasing money. " - Mr.Landis

by Bump22 on Nov 4, 2009 12:27 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I meant create a 1 on 1

on Roy with Artest/Odom/Kobe

"You can lose lots of money chasing women, but you will NEVER lose women chasing money. " - Mr.Landis

by Bump22 on Nov 4, 2009 12:28 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

At this point I put Bayless in

Just to light a fire under Miller and Blake. I mean, seriously, his defense and shooting can’t be much worse.

by blazingjim on Nov 4, 2009 7:28 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

100% at both ends isn't always best

You gotta take your foot off the throttle when you go into the turns.

by tominhawaii on Nov 4, 2009 4:22 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Going small is a sin.

There’s no benefit for the Blazers to play small.

Teams play small because:
A) Speed the game up.
B) Draw fouls by driving.
C) Play passing lanes and create turnovers.
D) Spread the court with shooters AND ball handlers.

Blazers do none of the above with the exception of D occasionally. The biggest advantage the Blazers have over other teams is their SIZE. We were the best offensive rebounding team due to our size, not due to our midget lineup.

One last thing. Our zone has sucked every year Nate has chosen to use it. The players aren’t disciplined and Nate has overused it to conceal poor man to man defense.

"I'm at the thingamajig talking the yakety-yak" - Kenny Smith

by blzrfan on Nov 4, 2009 12:05 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Your last point is illogical, I think

Of COURSE zone defense isn’t desirable. But Nate has tried to avoid using it, and look at the results. The sad fact is that the Blazer guards can’t keep their men in front of them, leading to foul trouble for the bigs, free throws for the opponent, etc., etc. In this case, at least, I have to argue that Nate was doing what he had to do.

"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla

by hurryup09 on Nov 4, 2009 12:09 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Oops--that was meant as a reply to blzrfan

"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla

by hurryup09 on Nov 4, 2009 12:09 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm saying it's preferable to learn to how play better man to man defense.

Rather than relying on a gimmick defense that often leads to mismatches, open perimeter shots, and offensive rebounds, work on man defense so we don’t rely on zone defense.

Zone defense does work on a couple possessions as a change of pace, but good teams will shred it when teams over use it which Nate typically does.

"I'm at the thingamajig talking the yakety-yak" - Kenny Smith

by blzrfan on Nov 4, 2009 12:15 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Of course, but what do you think the Blazers worked on all preseason?

Defense—and primarily not of the zone variety. The problem isn’t that Nate can’t coach defense—he’s recognized as a great defensive coach by none other than the USA international team (LeBron, Kobe, Wade, et al). The problem is that Nate doesn’t have guards with the capability of staying in front of their men. You can only compensate so much for that. Eventually, you have to bite the bullet and zone up.

"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla

by hurryup09 on Nov 4, 2009 12:19 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't want to argue about Nate's reputation as a defensive coach.

I think we can both agree we want to see less zone defense.

"I'm at the thingamajig talking the yakety-yak" - Kenny Smith

by blzrfan on Nov 4, 2009 12:22 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

So can anyone tell me why

We tried to acquire a 3 and a 4 before settling for a 1 who can’t stay in front of his guy in the off-season? Why wasn’t the priority to shore up the perimenter defense by getting a guard with quick feet? Miller is a good veteran, but he’s not going to stem the tide of fouls to Oden and Pryzbilla.

"She turned me into a newt!
A newt?
...I got better."

by Seijeff on Nov 4, 2009 9:36 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I still don't get why KP didn't trade for Kirk Hinrich.

They wanted Rudy and Bayless? Done and done. We have plenty of other pieces to replace what those two can do. We still don’t have anyone at either guard position who can get opposing guards to miss shots.

by MiledAnimal on Nov 4, 2009 11:23 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It's like watching something bake in the oven.

It seems as though our growth and chemistry are taking forever to manifest into something “appetizing”. Maybe if I just distract myself for a few games and then come back — our team will be “ready”, and all will be fantastic. Naah. I think I’ll just torture myself by peering into the oven and watch as the batter slowly rises, sizzles and the imperfections are exposed.

by blazerbeliever on Nov 4, 2009 12:12 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

YES!

I am tired of hearing the “growth and chemistry” bit….. WHEN does it happen??? This year is put up or shut up.

"You can lose lots of money chasing women, but you will NEVER lose women chasing money. " - Mr.Landis

by Bump22 on Nov 4, 2009 12:14 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You mispelled the word

But that’s probably just as well: the actual word is profanity.

"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla

by hurryup09 on Nov 4, 2009 12:20 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Chemistry issues

What I’m seeing from this Blazer team. Looks like Brandon is struggling to find a rhythm with his teammates on the offensive end, particularly with the ballhandlers and this probably stems from the Miller signing.

But something like this would have happened sooner or later. Because, as we saw last year, this team has leadership/softness issues.

Young men need to create drama to learn how to overcome it.

Part of the learning curve, I reckon. I just hope Nate has a take on it.

by Blazin' on Nov 4, 2009 12:20 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

I've been a Nate supporter...

and I was ecstatic when we brought him over from the Sonics. But, this game was the straw that broke the camel’s back. Time to go get a Van Gundy.

by xedubx on Nov 4, 2009 12:24 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Its not like

Joe Johnson and Crawford are easy guys to handle heck they were lighting up Kobe but the lakers have artest to sicc on guys like that

by BBG on Nov 4, 2009 12:36 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Agreed.

Close games despite poor play IS a good sign, but losing close(ish) games might just be an equally disturbing one. Losing close games indicates an inability to step up the game when it matters.

But it will change. Oden will not continue to get into foul trouble. I’m confident in that. And at some point Roy is going to tell Nate that its ok not to give Blake minutes he’s not earning – the team will still be able to manufacture some spacing for him. LMA seems like he’s starting to get his game together for the season.

We’re fine.

We’re fine.

Seriously.

by fitsnstarts on Nov 4, 2009 7:42 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I sure hope Oden won't continue to get into foul trouble

because his fouls per 36 were close to an all-time record for a rookie last year…and he’s gotten significantly worse in that department in the first five games. He’s a game changer at both ends, but he HAS TO STAY ON THE FLOOR. And I’m not sayin’ that he won’t improve…but I am saying that there’s not a single shred of statistical or anecdotal evidence to suggest that it’s happened so far. And it’s VERY concerning to me.

"I just sort of know that around the water cooler they talk of reality tv stars, and I strictly drink coffee." -- EvilKaramazov

by BlazersOrBust on Nov 4, 2009 9:11 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

My confidence

is based on just looking at Oden on the floor this year. Despite some obvious deficits in ball-handling he just plain looks more in control of his body this year. As he settles into that a bit, letting his footwork become second-nature, I think he’ll be able to dedicate his conscious efforts a bit more on his hands and reduce the turnovers. I also think that being comfortable in the way he is moving his body around on the court will, eventually but inevitably, slow down his foul rate.

by fitsnstarts on Nov 4, 2009 10:35 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Well said Mort.

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Nov 4, 2009 9:18 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Well, neither Blake, Roy, nor Webster played much hoops over the summer (for one reason or another)

So those guys are flat rusty and are missing open shots. Add the fact that Blake is looking over his shoulder at a superior point guard sitting on the bench, and it’s no wonder he’s struggling.

Those problems should resolve as the three aforementioned players shake off the rust and Blake moves to the bench where he’ll ultimately be more comfortable & relaxed. And once Miller becomes the starter, he should begin to get a feel for his new teammates & vice versa.

As for GO’s foul problems, I see that as more effect than cause. Sure, he still makes some dumb fouls here & there. But you’ll notice that Przy is constantly in foul trouble as well this season. The underlying problem, as others have pointed out, is that the Blazer guards are unable to even slow or funnel penetration by opposing guards. This problem is a holdover from last season.

All the above-mentioned issues have led Nate to coach from weakness. He’s trying so hard to compensate for the team’s problems that he’s making things worse. That’s a big problem in itself, but I expect Nate to settle down over the coming weeks. What WON’T go away, I fear, is the Swiss cheese perimeter defense. That’s the Blazers’ Achilles heel, in my opinion, and it’s preventing them from being legit contenders.

"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla

by hurryup09 on Nov 4, 2009 12:48 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Points in the Paint 50-34. Fast Break Points 18-4. Rebounds 35-26. Our 3-pt shooting 28.6%.

That is why we lost. Simple as that.

This is a team that normally plays sub-par perimeter defense (leading to interior fouls and/or points in the paint by opposing guards) and doesn’t score easy points off of fast breaks. Same as last year.

However, when we shoot well (especially 3-pt shots) and rebound well (which we did last year but not tonight) we win lots of games. When we again start shooting well (especially 3-pt shots) and rebounding to our ability, we will again win lots of regular season games this year.

However, in the playoffs we will need better defense and better inside scoring to win. The question is whether or not we can fix those problems by the playoffs, or it’s first round and out. Greg was the great hope for more inside scoring (and improved inside defense when the perimeter defense breaks down) but even though he’s lighter and quicker this year, he’s still the foul and turn-over machine he was last year. Let’s hope he (with the coaches help) can fix that, or this year will probably end a lot like last year.

by BlazerFanSince1970 on Nov 4, 2009 12:37 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

yep

We need more paint presence on offense…. period

"You can lose lots of money chasing women, but you will NEVER lose women chasing money. " - Mr.Landis

by Bump22 on Nov 4, 2009 12:38 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yup

That’s why I hope this illuminates the deeper problems that we still have— an over reliance on jumpers, ignoring Oden inside, etc— that would be hidden by a 5 and 0 record that we could easily have achieved.

We won’t be able to contend for a title until Oden is Oden, and Oden can’t be Oden until his foul problems are under control. He is our only hope for dominant inside scoring, and 48 minutes of interior defense. It is on Oden to get it under control, and he needs to.

Morty

by Mortimer on Nov 4, 2009 12:40 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

In the meantime

There is no reason Dre couldn’t have attacked Bibby endlessly… Bibby is an awful defender, and Miller’s attacking and post up game has always been very effective. Especially on a night where Roy is off.

I understand the coach and Roy felt Blake was the more comfortable fit, but it ain’t like they’re playing that good together. Maybe the better player should play over Blake… and no offense to Blake, I love him, but he can be frustrating to watch play over Miller AND Rudy.

However, I suspect Rudy’s minutes are being limited due to his back problems. If they bothered him all summer, I doubt they went away after sitting out the pre-season.

M—

by Mortimer on Nov 4, 2009 12:45 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Yep, he has to stay on the floor to give us an interior game and erase some of our outside defensive mistakes.

Many nights (obviously not tonight) our rebounding and 3-pt shooting will cover up our problems like it did last year, but not in the playoffs. I hate to put it on Oden, but that’s the way it is.

by BlazerFanSince1970 on Nov 4, 2009 12:48 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I am an Oden homer

But it’s totally on him, since I believe we won’t be a team that can contend for the big enchilada till he can stay on the floor.

His foul rate is the same as last year. What has changed for the better, however, is that he has been very consistently good-to-great when he is on the floor. Much better defense, lots of blocks, dominant rebounding. Too many turnovers of the illegal pick/3 seconds in the key variety, of course, but that’s okay— at least it ain’t a foul.

Since this subpar 2 and 3 start will not prevent us from making the playoffs, I am all for anything that illuminates our problems that will inhibit us from going deep in the playoffs.

Unfortunately, the deepest and biggest problem/solution is keeping Oden on the floor. That changes EVERYTHING.

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Nov 4, 2009 12:54 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The perimeter defense hurts him

But it’s still up to him to keep his hands straight up, don’t lower them, don’t force the refs to call cheapie fouls like the elbow to the head of Horford, let some shots go, play at the rim, etc. Basic, fixable stuff that ain’t been fixed yet.

Yes, our PGs porous defense doesn’t help Oden, but Oden still controls his destiny here.

M—

by Mortimer on Nov 4, 2009 12:56 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

 It is so frustrating. Two minutes, tweet tweet. It’s clockwork and I am about to snap.

I just want him on the floor.

free bayless

by Cablinasian on Nov 4, 2009 12:57 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, agreed.

I’m also an Oden supporter, and I think it’s more a matter of when than if. But he also has to stop getting the ball stripped. He has also reverted to early last season form on that too. He needs a bucket of stick-em and some more coaching on that. I don’t know what the Oden coaching problem is (re: fouls and losing the ball), but somehow it must be fixed.

by BlazerFanSince1970 on Nov 4, 2009 1:03 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It just HAS to

Such seemingly simple problems, and I fervently believe Oden is a smart kid who gets it and desperately wants to be what we want him to be.

And ALL he needs to do, to be what we want him to be, IS BE ON THE FLOOR. So simple.

He’s healthy, in shape, and doing great per-minute. But his foul rate is insane still.

To me, it is the singular most frustrating development in the first 5 games.

—M

by Mortimer on Nov 4, 2009 1:05 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

and that roy kinda stinks

and that andre isn’t allow’d to be a point guard becuase of ninny winny steve blakes “comfort” levels are at an all time high…

this is just stupid nate needs to be fired.

The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out, burns out farms, and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.

"New Man Law: If you don't show up for the draft you don't get to come later if you're picked. If you believe in yourself, show up and sit there. If nobody else believes in you, take it and cry like a man...in front of the cameras."

-Dave

by faith on Nov 4, 2009 4:51 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm depressed

One of the main things (albiet difficult) a good coach does is inspire his players to excell. Blazers don’t seem inspired.
Oden needs to get pissed at a ref for calling those ticky-tack fowls. I’d cheer a technical. The refs see him as a pushover.

by Iluvdisteam on Nov 4, 2009 12:47 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

standing ovation if he'd just charge one ref flailing his arms,......and frown at him and crush a b ball into nothin....

The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out, burns out farms, and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.

"New Man Law: If you don't show up for the draft you don't get to come later if you're picked. If you believe in yourself, show up and sit there. If nobody else believes in you, take it and cry like a man...in front of the cameras."

-Dave

by faith on Nov 4, 2009 4:52 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

More like the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune...arms against a sea of troubles....and [a] thousand natural shocks

To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life’s but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.

Macbeth Act 5, scene 5, 19–28

"I won't back down." -- Tom Petty

"History is important. If you don't know history it is as if you were born yesterday. And, if you were born yesterday, anybody up there in a position of power can tell you anything, and you have no way of checking up on it." -- Howard Zinn

by MojoMan on Nov 4, 2009 12:47 AM PST reply actions   1 recs

Rec.

Me thinks the last two lines well apply to many here.

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Nov 4, 2009 9:21 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Good observations Dave

I really was feeling that it is not our individual players who are the “problem”, with the possible exception of the point.
We have the length, athleticism, and skills; but not the execution. We’re out of sync. Our frustration as fans is probably even greater in the locker room for the players. I really hate to see the players we really like failing, especially at home, where we had so much success last year, and I believe they hate to let us down, which is good. I agree a lot is a psychological factor, a confidence thing, a knowing what to do, a security in your role and your ability to fill it. Hard to believe that the only significant change we made, switching Sergio for Miller is the main cause of the seeming disorganization, not that it couldn’t be a factor. Should be an improvement. I can only guess what is going on “behind the locker room door”. Might not be constructive to publicly air inside information on the team dynamics, though the fans are sure curious.

I do feel that the primary pressure now is on the coaching staff. They’ve got to take a hard look at what they are doing, and what they might need to change. Maybe there is “information overload”, you can’t fix everything at once. Remember how they were telling Oden to “have fun out there”. It seems like the whole team needs that message now. I appreciated how LMA and Travis were driving the basket tonight. Maybe Travis held back on the 3 trying to do what he was told “don’t settle for the jump shot, drive to the basket”. Martell’s play has been excellent after his off season.
I expect the coaches and the team are going to get into some “soul searching”, and some team meetings. You are right this is early, but the pressure to adjust is real. And hopefully we will play out of this. At this level of play, you have to maintain your discipline, your edge, because if you give an opening, the competition is going exploit it, especially the contending teams. Of course coaching is part “sports psychology”, as well as technique and plays. Seems like we need it all. The coaching staff is under the microscope now. It’s a powerful position. I can’t say I’m expecting a “quick fix”. Hope I’m wrong. We shall see.

"Travis went all wang-dang diddly wubba SPROING wow-wow on everybody " Dave's recap, season opener

by Berkeley on Nov 4, 2009 12:47 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

I took today's loss better than I normally do, not sure why

I don’t want to have to get used to this though.

Oden’s fouls are nothing short of a crisis. And Nate’s handling of him makes it worse. Everything else— and there are plenty of other problems— is secondary.

by jksnake99 on Nov 4, 2009 1:18 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

I agree

Still a frustrating loss, a very winnable loss— but Oden’s foul troubles are the only thing that worry me.

I believe we can still win a ton of games with Oden only playing 20 minutes a night, but we won’t get to where we want to be that way. We need him to stay out of foul trouble more often, for the Now and for the Future.

SO important.

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Nov 4, 2009 1:26 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I wasn't even going to come on here today.

Last night was crap.

The spazz unit: Miller, Rudy, Martel, Travis and Greg. What kind of line up was that? Poor Greg was just sitting in the paint while we had 4 other guys running around like chickens with their heads cut off. Please Nate, NEVER EVER have that line up again.

That is, unless of course you decide to go with our crappy 3 guard line-up with freaking Steve Blake as our shooting guard. As if watching Miller and BRoy together isn’t bad enough right now, insert Steve freaking Blake into the mix to make it a little more awkward. Yeah, by all means put the Spazz unit back in. At least they were more entertaining to watch.

"We believe" -Rudy Fernandez

by twiggs on Nov 4, 2009 6:20 AM PST reply actions   1 recs

Rec

This lineup made a brief appearance in game 1 against the Rockets if I remember right. At the time I couldn’t come up with a snazzy name for this unit, but I like “The spazz unit.” This unit reminds me of those old electric football games where the players vibrate around on an aluminum “field” and you never know where any individual game piece is going to end up. As often as not they either migrate to the corners or bunch up all in one place.

This season is already making me tired.

But we’ll get better.

by fitsnstarts on Nov 4, 2009 7:36 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm in a bad mood.

I really hated last nights game. Sorry, I really do <3 them lots.

But Nate needs to pull his head out of his you-know-what.

"We believe" -Rudy Fernandez

by twiggs on Nov 4, 2009 1:29 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Playing a role

1. Webster looked like he was heating up in the 3rd. The Blazers made little effort to maximize this. Using Oden for his stengths near the hoop isn’t a matter of trust … it’s the ability to get the ball to him and get it right back there on a re-post. How about putting their guys in foul trouble by going at them?
2. Rudy played in 17 minutes—he wasn’t the problem. He was in for 14 against OKC. Playing an integral role … an actual role that maximizes his strengths … he made hay down in Houston. PLAYMAKER.
3. The revolving door rotations and minutes juggling need to cease. Continuity and flow do not result from their polar opposites. Get Miller the ball and run the thing.
4. Nice that Catfish is doing what he can, but he (on balance) is a tweener on this team on defense. Rudy’s D is no worse than Blake’s, but he does everything else better. Getting yanked around doesn’t work. The tradewinds may blow from the south on expiring contracts.

Some of these issues aren’t getting resolved until KP, Penn and co. resolve consolidation issues in trade. It need not be immediate, but the need remains.

by HoopsFan on Nov 4, 2009 8:08 AM PST reply actions   1 recs

Exactly what I've been thinking about Rudy

And, having said that, if we’re going to ever go with a three guard line-up it ought to be Roy, Miller, and Rudy – Rudy spaces the floor as well as Blake does as a 3 pt threat and Miller and Rudy on opposite sides of the court gives us options for passing in to our bigs whenever they have position. This Roy, Miller, Blake stuff leaves me perplexed.

by fitsnstarts on Nov 4, 2009 8:17 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Also I have no idea what I'm talking about really

I’m sure Nate’s a better coach than I am…

by fitsnstarts on Nov 4, 2009 8:19 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

bayless?

I don’t know what planet you bayless lovers live on, but it definately gives me pause about anything else you say. Bayless has been absolutely horrific when he’s been out there and the stats back that up. Yeah, he shows ‘effort’ and every once in a while he goes off, but the vast majority of the time he just looks totally out of his league.

Statistically, the offense is worse, the defense is worse, his passing and hands ratings (82games.com) are less than half of Steve Blake or Andre Miller… and nowhere near a legit point guard.

Bayless is a blue collar, hard working, nice guy who’s using grit determination to overcome tough odds… just the kind of player Oregonians seem to love. But that does not make him a good NBA player.

by seablaz on Nov 4, 2009 8:45 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

I think what the Blazers need

if a few games against lousy teams to get their confidence back. Yes, being 2-3 sucks, but so far every team we’ve played has something to prove. Every team we played will most likely be in the playoffs this year. San Antonio won’t be any different, but I’m looking forward to Minn/Memph/Minn. Not just because they’re teams the Blazers should beat, but because they should have fun beating them, and remember how fun winning is, and get some confidence and swagger back.

by LicketyBrindle on Nov 4, 2009 8:48 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

A little reminder (and probably my favorite signature, thanks Faith)...

The Faith don’t panic, the faith freaks out, burns out farms, and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.

"Do me a favor. Put your lip over your head... and swallow." Max Goldman

by clinchmobb on Nov 4, 2009 9:38 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

But the Atlanta attack was more focused, more energetic, and produced better looks

You can say this about every Blazer game. our offense rarely produces better looks than the opposition – unless 20 foot contested jump shots are better looks.

Martell Webster was the only guy who could claim a reasonably hot hand in the period and his outburst was brief.

Brief, because after his stepback 3-pointer we proceeded to not even let him touch the ball on the next 5-6 possessions.

Portland responded to being pushed by running their turtle formation: one guy gets the ball, makes a move, and heaves a jumper.

Should we be surprised? This is the stanard Portland offense

Atlanta basically threw everything at him and dared the Blazers to beat them with somebody else. The strategy worked.

Get used to seeing a steady diet of this. Unless and until we can run something other than predictable isolation offense, we’ll keep seeing this strategy work against us.

How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009

by douglast on Nov 4, 2009 9:39 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

"Atlanta basically threw everything at him and dared the Blazers to beat them with somebody else. The strategy worked."

isn’t that why we signed Miller? For a second ball-handler/creator? Oh wait….that would require nate changing the offensive system.

As for Oden, what is the difference between the preseason and the regular season? (Besides the refs)
In the preseason the Blazers made a consistant effort to get Greg the ball early and often, he responded with points, rebounds, blocks, and few fouls. Involve him on offense and he becomes more active on defense, moves his feet better and draws less fouls.

by usmcr3049 on Nov 4, 2009 2:29 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah

so when a team doubles Roy up top, instead of him swinging the ball to Travis at the top of the 3 point line (which is what we do now), we should instead swing it to Miller, who can then immediately drive (since no one is on him at this time), and make a pass/shoot decision before the 2 defenders on Roy can recover.

if they aren’t doubling Roy up top, then we should be having Andre run a pick/roll with LMA, while the Oden downscreens for Roy on the opposite side so he can catch the ball around the elbow area and work from there. Martell or Rudy would be in the nearside corner to catch a Miller kickout if the defender slides down, or possibly running the baseline from corner to corner depending on where the ball and other players are. This would keep the defense on it’s toes a bit more than the 1-4 iso or 1-3 high high center pick, as they have to keep an eye on both the nearside P/R with Andre and LMA as well as Roy curling up to the elbow coming off the downscreen from Oden. Andre can either decide to use the pick or hit Roy coming up to the elbow. Roy is now starting his move much closer to the basket, with the other defenders already commited to defending elsewehre and now having to shift if they want to focus on Roy. If Roy make a quick move to the hoop off the curl, then Oden’s defender might have to slide to help, leaving Oden open very close to the basket for a dump or lob.

How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009

by douglast on Nov 4, 2009 4:49 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Some signs of encouragement...

Looking at the glass half-full:

- I meant to write down the lineup, but early in the game, perhaps late first quarter, we had one or two possessions where we really moved well without the ball, and we saw lots of crisp passing, Broy curling off screens… awesome! But it sadly didn’t last…

- Greg is playing Great. When he’s out there. Nate, don’t you agree that sometimes NBA refs are reluctant to call a 6th foul on a star? If so, then LET GREG FOUL OUT! Geesh, that small unit in the 4th was stoopid… turribull…. senseless..

- LA played hard, and actually rebounded!

- Dre had lots of assists…

OK that’s all I got to be positive about… My biggest headscratcher was – what was up with Roy’s ballhandling? It’s like the ball was too inflated, he kept dribbling like my 9 year old – too high and getting stolen, or dribbling off his leg – man, his play was UGLY last night… Travis played like poop until the game was basically out of reach late. Rudy was running around a lot, but never seemed to get the ball… Blake continues to look completely lost out there, and Nate – PLEASE don’t play Blake as part of any combination of 3 guards… He’s the 4th (maybe 5th) best guard we have… Bench him! And KP, trade him before his value plummets to Sergio levels!

It’s early… it’s early.. But I’m starting to look around the house for material to make the likeness of Nate to hang in effigy…

by Visionary2 on Nov 4, 2009 10:38 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

I was going to comment about Brandon's miscues with the ball as well.

I think it ties into the confusion the team has right now. Last year, even early in the season, everyone knew what to do. They functioned like a spear, and Brandon was the sharp tip. Now it seems as if no one, even Brandon, knows what to do when opponents double him or make a defensive adjustment.

by MiledAnimal on Nov 4, 2009 11:38 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

This will improve

as the year goes on. I think right now the Blazers are adjusting to what appears to be the new strategy de jure for defending their end game offense (which, as you said, is based on not letting Roy be the Blazer who determines the outcome). The Blazers will find a counter, and I think LMA and Rudy will both be big parts of the equation.

I hate Comcast.
Card carrying member of Team Bayless
I believe in Greg Oden

by blazeraddict on Nov 4, 2009 12:14 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Everybody watched the last game film of the Blazers...

In which the Rockets took the Blazers apart with good solid D, denying BRoy the ball… Coaches aren’t very imaginitive… they tend to try what works, until you stop it… And when they see somebody else do something that works… they imitate it…

We’re playing a league of Rockets, now… Need to change the end game plan to take advantage of whatever they’re leaving open by doubling Roy.

by Visionary2 on Nov 5, 2009 9:58 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

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