Why Greg Can Wait

by Foofighting101 on Nov 29, 2009 9:06 AM PST

Offensively I think Portland has to look more to LaMarcus and Brandon, and let Greg clean up the scraps with putbacks, lobs when defenders are sleeping, etc.

Let's face it, Greg is still lumbering and awkward when he posts up. He is prone to travel or foul. People tend to stand around when he's making his move, and if he's doubled, people seem surprised to get the kick out. Greg is shooting such a high percentage because of his putbacks and easy baskets, not because of his ability to create one-on-one. If you want to use him as an offensive weapon, then put him in there with the second unit.

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Greg > jumpshots

"Oden is a man among cub scouts."
by Tyrusmancrush on Nov 23, 2009 9:08 PM PST

by Sabonis4Ever on Nov 29, 2009 9:22 AM PST reply actions 12 recs

Rec'd

Under no circumstances do I want this team to end up like the jump shooting Mavs of 2/3 years ago, starring GO as Eric Dampier. Even at this stage, Greg is the most effective interior threat this team has – even with the Jordan/Pippen Bulls, much of the offensive damage came from Jordan on the blocks. No interior threat, no playoff success.

The Blazerverse and The Wire: A comparison
Brandon Roy = Stringer Bell (smooth technician dedicated to his craft)
Nate McMillan = Cedric Daniels (well intentioned leader, but he can be too rigid for his own good at times)
Martell Webster = Wee Bey Brice (straight up solider who follows orders; every organization needs these guys to be successful)
Jerryd Bayless = Marlo Stanfield (he's new to the game, but he's watching and waitng; he will take over and there will be casualties)
Rudy Fernandez = Jimmy McNulty (he gets results, but the leadership wishes he was less of a wild man; the ladies love him)
Greg Oden = Michael Lee (he started off a quiet kid, but he's beginning to tap in to his huge potential to change the game)
Andre Miller = Lester Freamon (do not let the laconic demeanor fool you, the veteran knows what's up)
John Canzano = Scott Templeton (scummy muckraker who stays up at night polishing his award)

by blazeraddict on Nov 29, 2009 9:31 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs

rec

'Cuse 88-Cornell 73. My Big Red failed to beat the spread by 2 points. Hence the new avatar.

by jksnake99 on Nov 29, 2009 10:22 AM PST up reply actions

LaMarcus

Is a better back-to-the-basket player than Greg.

by Foofighting101 on Nov 29, 2009 9:42 AM PST reply actions

regardless

LaMarcus has a TS of 53, while Greg is at 67. Until LaMarcus shows the ability to use those back to the basket skill to score efficiently, Greg should get more touches because he’s incredibly efficient while LaMarcus’s efficiency is pedestrian.

by atomiccafe on Nov 29, 2009 9:51 AM PST up reply actions 6 recs

rec

'Cuse 88-Cornell 73. My Big Red failed to beat the spread by 2 points. Hence the new avatar.

by jksnake99 on Nov 29, 2009 10:23 AM PST up reply actions

On the other hand

turnovers negate his high TS. this is purely based on watching the games this year.

by Gregoriun on Nov 30, 2009 12:57 AM PST up reply actions

His turnovers aren't that bad

They are very normal when that first 7 turnover game is taken out— and those were mostly turnovers of the 3 in the key, illegal pick variety.

M—

by Mortimer on Nov 30, 2009 2:14 AM PST up reply actions

LaMarcus favorite shot is that 18 foot jumper

he rarely gets anything going toward the hoop unless he is on the break and he is a better back to the basket player?

I am not sure what you have been watching this year, but Oden is clearly playing better now. Oden gets so few touches in this offense it is scary. The Blazers need to go inside out. They seemed to figure that out against chicago and then forogot it by weeks end. When you run the ball through the post, whether or not that player is doing a lot of scoring, things loosen up a great deal.

oden’s offense is far from where it needs to be, but not getting the ball to him will not help him develop his game.

"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man

by PDXBuckeye on Nov 29, 2009 10:53 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs

..

Agreed, it reminds me of Yao from the Rockets and how the team would struggle to get him the ball. I’d take Oden’s field gold percentage over LMAs jump shots that he hasn’t been hitting lately.

Oden also goes inside a lot which results to getting fouled… in other words jump shots = inconsistent. Big dude in the middle = more consistent and opens wide open looks if he is defended well (doubled)

- www.ichabodmedia.com
- www.portugaltheman.com

by brandonmitchell on Nov 29, 2009 12:25 PM PST up reply actions

LaMarcus’s % is bound to be lower than Greg’s because he also takes jump shots, where as Greg will rarely take a shot he can’t lay in or dunk. That doesn’t mean that Greg is a better isolation low post player.

by Foofighting101 on Nov 29, 2009 10:21 AM PST reply actions

Lamarcus is a good offensive player

but I disagree that his is better in the post than Greg. LaMarcus gets the ball in his post moves about 10-12 feet from the hoop outside the key. This happens almost exclusively. Because of this he doesn’t get doubled as much or draw as many fouls. This also doesn’t collapse the opponents defense like a deep post does. That is why Lamarcus shoots a lower % as well. Dunks and 5 foot hooks are a higher percentage shot than 8-10 ft turnarounds and 8ft hooks.
I think most of the issues Greg has in the post revolve around timely delivery of the ball when he establishes position. Greg gets a great seal on his man quite often. We just don’t get him the ball effectively when he has his man sealed….you only have a 1-2 second window. That’s why I personally find Blake so frustrating. He rarely gets a post pass into Oden without hesitating and then Greg’s advantage is lost. The basic offensive structure needs to change to take advantage of both Oden and Aldridge. I just don’t think Nate will do it.
O.R.

by Odenrising on Nov 29, 2009 10:41 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs

Also post plays aren't supposed to be isolation plays

Good offenses run back picks and screens off of low post sets to get wings easy hoops cutting to the basket. Such as San Antonio, Orlando, Boston, and the Utah Jazz.
O.R.

by Odenrising on Nov 29, 2009 10:46 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs

Greg should be a 5 assist guy a night

but nobody moves when he has the ball except for Dre and Rudy. Those back cuts would really be effective.

"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man

by PDXBuckeye on Nov 29, 2009 10:56 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs

not part of Nate's offense

by Odenrising on Nov 29, 2009 10:57 AM PST up reply actions

oh i agree

that is hy he needs to go, he does not know how to use the talent he has…

"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man

by PDXBuckeye on Nov 29, 2009 11:01 AM PST up reply actions

...

One of the things I’ve been noticing when i watch a game is how when our offense runs back and we reset, Oden is open in the middle so many times calling for the ball. They arent looking for opportunities like that, they seem to pass it to him when he is being guarded and go one on one.

- www.ichabodmedia.com
- www.portugaltheman.com

by brandonmitchell on Nov 29, 2009 12:28 PM PST up reply actions

right on

Oden also manages to come free down the lane at least twice a game and only one time do I remember anybody hitting him with a high pass and that was Rudy. Blake is out of his element, his passes are late and too low in to Oden.

Oden’s offense is not fully developed so having to compensate for these shortcomings of the entry pass is not within his current capacity.

Dre nows how to use a big back to the basket player, Rudy too. Blake does not.

I agree, nate will not take advantage, he has no idea what to really do with greg. It is obvious in a quote like, these guys need to figure it out….

"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man

by PDXBuckeye on Nov 29, 2009 11:00 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs

We don't have a chance to improve if we only try to rely on Roy and LA

Rooo-D!

by truls on Nov 29, 2009 10:47 AM PST reply actions

i recd this post

not because i agree with it, but i do think this is the key issue.

Dre wants the team to play a style that takes advantage of Oden more and Nate does not like that style.

We know ow far doing what we did last season will take us, we need to take advantage of the ttalent we have. Nates system does not do that. It worked with what he had, but he has more than that now and he does not know what to do with it. he himself said as much with the ’they’ll have to work that out’ comment.

"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man

by PDXBuckeye on Nov 29, 2009 11:06 AM PST reply actions

The strangest part is

Going to a post first offense would benefit LMA as much as Oden. The sets would work for both and it would also max Roy,Andre, and Rudy’s potential as they would have open shots and layins. Of course this would mean a lot less minutes for Blake….
O.R.

by Odenrising on Nov 29, 2009 11:14 AM PST reply actions

Inside shots that are a higher percentage and create fouls > jumpers

I feel like this post was written over a year ago, was sitting in preview mode on your desktop for a year, you finally saw it again, and hit post without making any changes.

Oden has been a better passer and post scorer than LMA this season. The less we utilize Greg on offense, the more we slow down his development and it even hurts us right now— so it’s not development for the future, it’s development for the now as well.

LMA is a good post scorer and I want him to stay down there and work. He is certainly more skilled and versatile scoring than Oden is. But Oden has been more effective and deserves many more shots.

Using Oden as a young Joel is a big mistake.

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Nov 29, 2009 11:19 AM PST reply actions 11 recs

amen

even if greg is not shooting, more touches by him will open the floor better. These guys need to be coached on how to play with a true back to the basket center, Nate ‘just figure it out’ McMillan seems to have no interest in providing that coaching. He must go.

"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man

by PDXBuckeye on Nov 29, 2009 11:34 AM PST up reply actions

You speak the truth.

Please fax this to Nate.

by Stryder9 on Nov 29, 2009 3:51 PM PST up reply actions

Rec'd Morty

Lots of room to grow on this team if they can move the ball in on offense.
O.R.

by Odenrising on Nov 29, 2009 11:24 AM PST reply actions

One of the things I see

is that the interior passing recently has been terrible. Guys get position, make cuts, but nobody has the ability or guts get the ball inside. Greg is the most notable victim of this shortcoming. I’m unsure if it is because they are so used to swinging the ball around the perimiter that they just don’t look for the giant getting in position on the semicircle or if there is some other unknown reason (maybe the team doesn’t know how to space with that kind of a threat), but it can be infuriating to watch.

I agree that Greg getting the ball in the post outside the key time after time isn’t the most effective way to use him, but he needs the ball inside. He needs to find himself with the ball in the deep post a higher percentage of the time he gains position there. He’s unstoppable that low.

It wasn't the first time I'd been kicked in the cherries and called a rat by a woman, but it was the first time I didn't mind.

by shenanigans on Nov 29, 2009 12:16 PM PST reply actions

Is that you nate?

It must be you nate, who else would bench Oden for nothing?
Do you honestly think Pryz will be more productive?
Maybe nates inability and ignorance is contagious.

by blaze1 on Nov 29, 2009 1:11 PM PST reply actions

I found one sentence of this post fascinating:

“People tend to stand around when he’s making his move, and if he’s doubled, people seem surprised to get the kick out.” So the answer, clearly, is to stop utilizing the only effective post weapon on the team? This despite the fact that teams lacking a post game NEVER win NBA championships?

In reality, the fact that GO’s teammates are, by & large, inept at utilizing him down low simply points to the necessity of “staying the course.” If this team is to be a serious contender, both GO and his teammates must continue learning to take advantage of his still-developing, but formidable, post-up skills.

Greg Oden is a huge, strong, quick center with exceptional hands, a soft touch, and some natural passing ability. Landing him was an impossible dream that came true. Nothing the Blazers could realistically accomplish this season is more important than developing and integrating this offensive weapon.

If that means 50 wins, not 58, if that means no home court advantage in the playoffs, if that means Roy & LMA’s stats are down and they miss the all-star game—who cares? Blazer fans’ eyes should be on the prize: NBA championships.

"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla

by hurryup09 on Nov 29, 2009 7:14 PM PST reply actions 2 recs

The bulls won without a post game

People tend to stand around when he’s making his move, and if he’s doubled, people seem surprised to get the kick out." So the answer, clearly, is to stop utilizing the only effective post weapon on the team? This despite the fact that teams lacking a post game NEVER win NBA championships?

Actually, six times. But the point stands.

by Sound_Automatic on Nov 29, 2009 9:13 PM PST reply actions

Not true

Jordan scored a LOT in the post and was their post game. He was dominant down there.

Morty

by Mortimer on Nov 30, 2009 2:08 AM PST up reply actions

What teams seem to not have (that we have)

Is two post scorers. By the time duncan and robinson were united, robinson was just rebounding and shooing jumpers. Its hard to have to guys who want to have their backs to the basket on opposite sides of the lane at the same time (obvious, I know). Long term, either Aldridge or Oden has to go for both to reach their potential.

by Sound_Automatic on Nov 29, 2009 10:08 PM PST reply actions