Game 19 Recap: Blazers 92, Jazz 108
by Dave on Nov 29, 2009 12:48 AM PST
in News
179 comments
MEMO
To: The Blazers
From: Your Loyal Fans
When someone asks you what you would do for a Klondike Bar you have to stop answering like this. Just go buy your own ice cream sandwich. Seriously, they're not that expensive.
For the second night in a row the Blazers blue-screened in the first period, letting--nay, helping--the opponent to streak out to an early lead which they never relinquished. The Jazz were about as close to losing this game as I was to getting a date with this girl named Candy (seriously) back in high school. She was a senior, she knew how to wear makeup effectively, and ay Chihuahua! Did she have nice taste in fashion! Providing, of course, your idea of "fashion" is knowing exactly how to accentuate...I mean...well, let's just say that she was quite empowered and seemingly liberated and I had about as much chance of attracting her notice as a chipmunk had of lifting the Empire State Building. The chipmunk was having a permanent bad hair day, too. Poor guy.
Believe it or not, that futile memory was actually more encouraging than tonight's game.
You knew we were in trouble when the first defensive play of the game featured blown coverage on a pick and pop in which both defenders drifted to the dribbler, allowing Mehmet Okur an uncontested 15-footer. The first offensive play of the game was a Brandon Roy turnover, leading to a slam dunk on the second defensive play. Then Greg Oden got his shot blocked. Soon after the Blazers blew coverage on another screen play in the exact same way they did the first time. And it was all downhill from there.
The most critical errors came on the defensive end. The main one of those was that there was no defense. I've seen man-to-man defense. I can recognize a zone. I can usually tell when there's a matchup-zone being employed. But for the life of me I don't know what to call it when at least four, if not five, defenders just sort of plant in a spot, maybe wave their hands around a little, but basically just stand flat-footed. Is this scheme code-named "Trees in the Breeze"? The Orange Safety Cone Special? Did someone pass a note pre-game saying "The less we move the sooner we can get out of here"? I'm used to the occasional slow rotation, but no rotation? The Jazz shot approximately one-hundred-billion percent in the first period and finished the game at a more-than-respectable 60.6%. I could actually stop the recap right there because when you see "60.6" followed by a percent sign in a boxscore and it's not talking about free throws you're done.
But I can't stop yet because we haven't covered the Blazers' offense yet which, when spoken of in the first-quarter anyway, now carries a mandatory "What the hell happened to..." in front of it. Much like the British offense in the First World War according to Black Adder, the Blazers evidently decided than since shooting jumpers one-on-one off the dribble without ever getting the ball inside first didn't work the first 100 times they tried it last night the opponent would never be expecting them to attempt the same tonight. In the opening stanza Portland heaved like supermodels at the buffet. Meanwhile Steve Blake looked inept and Andre Miller looked like he was purposely trying to lose the game for us, Between them they handled the ball a lot. Roy and Aldridge were the only guys who made any noise and neither of them did it in sustainable fashion. It was more one-on-one trick shots. Blazers down 15 after one...leaking more than a point per minute.
Defying every principle of probability, space, time, and decency the defense actually looked worse in the second period. The Jazz didn't score as many points but they came close without Deron Williams on the floor for most of the quarter. The second unit tried to initiate some passing but they ended up whipping it around the perimeter without ever mounting an attack of any sort. The strong side was guarded so...around the horn the ball goes. Now it's on the other side. No openings here. Send it back! What? I just sent this away. Nobody did anything with it? Well I'm still shut off. Send it back again! It was like watching fourteen year-olds passing love notes in class, except the fourteen-year-olds get results sometimes. Finally the Blazers got the ball in to Greg Oden for a couple shots (and we do mean "a couple") and that loosened things up a little. Portland ended up scoring 27 but also allowed the Jazz 27, chipping away none of the 15-point spread they inherited from Period One.
Brandon Roy came out with phasers on kill in the third period. He tried his best to bail the team out. On teams with clear superstars--let's say the L*kers--this kind of display often ignites teammates and fills them with confidence about their chances of winning despite being behind. With the Blazers this kind of display seems to fill everyone with nonchalance. His teammates seemed content to watch Brandon operate. Nobody played appreciably better when he started damaging the foe. At this point Carlos Boozer also started taking advantage of Greg Oden, who looked a bit slow tonight comparatively. He scored and got Oden in foul trouble, taking him out of the action. Utah continued to move the ball faster than the Blazers moved their feet. The Jazz took the quarter by 7 and put the Blazers down 22 entering the fourth. The third unit showed some spirit and won the final period but it didn't really matter. Another night, another lesson in humility. Or futility. Wait...make it "fumility". Whatever it is, it's no fun.
The Blazers got killed in every offensive stat except offensive rebounds and points in the paint. There were too few of either to matter though. Utah had 36 assists on 43 makes, a sure sign they were doing whatever they wanted. Boozer and Williams scored at will. The Blazers had no will. End of story.
Individual Observations
For the same reasons I explained last night, these will be short.
Roy did what he could offensively.
Jerryd Bayless and Dante Cunningham both brought energy that their teammates lack. It was garbage time when they came in (defined in this game as "anything after the six-minute mark of the first quarter") but they still showed desire.
Andre Miller: 6 minutes, 2 assists, 2 turnovers, 0-4 shooting. Yuck.
Final Thoughts and Links
It doesn't get any easier for the Blazers after this. They come home to face Miami and Houston before embarking on a four-game road trip which, while not sporting the toughest of opponents (Cleveland aside), is still four games on the road back East. Somebody better glue the pieces of the vase back together or mom's gonna get home and deliver some awful whuppins. Fortunately there's a three-day break in between the Miami and Houston games. I'm guessing there will be some practice involved there.
Boxscore (definitely NSFW)
Hear them get rowdy over at slcdunk.com.
Here are the Jersey Contest scores for the month and this game. Remember that final scoreboard is not accurate yet. I'll let you know when the Minnesota results are in and we can declare a winner for the month. Meanwhile, go ahead and enter the first game of December.
--Dave (blazersub@yahoo.com)
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“I don’t know. That’s why coaches coach,” Roy said. “I just go out there, you know? He’s the coach.”
i cry for nic
these are the quotes that bother me the most
its just Roy not taking ANY blame.
All his quotes this year have almost been counter-productive to team chemistry, and his lack of effort just shows it.
Believe me, i love roy, but these are NOT the quotes we want to hear from Roy. What happened to Accountability?
Rip City Baby...People have no idea what is coming.
Follow my twitter www.twitter.com/PDXBlazersFTW, @PDXBlazersFTW. Lots of random Blazer Posts from links I find around the blogosphere.
i dont care
just my two cents on the quotes.
Rip City Baby...People have no idea what is coming.
Follow my twitter www.twitter.com/PDXBlazersFTW, @PDXBlazersFTW. Lots of random Blazer Posts from links I find around the blogosphere.
The bigger problem is that Nate pointed a finger at the players...
while Brandon pointed a finger at Nate.
That’s a significant development, if Quick’s story is accurate.
I understand that
Again, the pointing fingers is what bothers me.
what happened to the “I” statements?
Rip City Baby...People have no idea what is coming.
Follow my twitter www.twitter.com/PDXBlazersFTW, @PDXBlazersFTW. Lots of random Blazer Posts from links I find around the blogosphere.
It does not bode well,
and I am not sure the finger pointing isnt deserved all around. I hope both sides can see how each have contributed to this.
"sides"
thats never good in a lockerroom…
Millers dysfunctional way of dealing with the conflic (pointed out below), and Roys non-chalance about this is the troubling factor.
Just doesnt bode well.
Rip City Baby...People have no idea what is coming.
Follow my twitter www.twitter.com/PDXBlazersFTW, @PDXBlazersFTW. Lots of random Blazer Posts from links I find around the blogosphere.
Retaliation??
The remarks of BRoy could be in retaliation of Nate publicly calling him and LMA out. IMO, he does have a chip on his shoulder about something. As been said and asked several times, what is wrong? He just doesn’t seem like the same player?
Anyway, I hope we can get it all in the open and behind us.
One thing I do know, if we keep the Oregonian out of the Blazers locker room, things could settle down and be resolved. It is hard to solve problems when someone is poking needles in you as The Oregonian and the Oregonian bloggers does.
hg
Have you read this Dave?
http://blog.oregonlive.com/behindblazersbeat/2009/11/utah_108_portland_92_another_d.html
It looks like Nate has lost the support of the team.
Roybot.
Dirty Socks.
That's too strong of a way to put it
They are definitely struggling though. The real storylines here are two:
1. Roy (and maybe Aldridge) vs. Oden. This is the one that has the potential to be a season-killer.
2. McMillan vs. Miller if that develops further. ‘Dre and Nate have been treading on prickly ground since before the season started. It’s a rift that doesn’t seem to be healing. It’s a tough one to deal with because Miller is a point guard and a credible veteran. The team desperately needs both.
—Dave
by Dave on Nov 29, 2009 1:01 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I have to disagree
The players seem to be questioning why Andre isn’t playing more, they’re questioning Nate’s rotations, his plays, their roles, and on the floor they look like a team that has quit on their coach.
Nate has a history of throwing his players under the bus, and not accepting responsibility for his game plans not preparing the team; but, this is the first time I’ve seen any of them openly question him to the media after doing so.
The players aren't unified.
Roy is alpha dog and he is making some kind of play…Dave suggests it’s about Oden, I thought it was about Miller. In any case, it seems that Roy is now directing his displeasure towards the coach.
Inevitably players tend to fall on one side or the other of an alpha dog play like that. So some will align with Roy, others not. Or they are like Joel and just kind of pulling back in some disgust…
"The only 'Advanced Metric' that matters is what you see with your eyes." -Timbo, Nov., 2009.
I dont know about number (1) because I think they have to like Oden in there.
But (2) is very likely playing itself out.
You don't think its Roy v Miller?
That seems to have been the operative theory for a while now.
"The only 'Advanced Metric' that matters is what you see with your eyes." -Timbo, Nov., 2009.
Roy v. Miller
doesn’t matter. Roy is more important. Andre will be gone in two years no matter what. There’s little reason for Roy to spark with ‘Dre. It’s not even a fight. Roy-Oden, however…that’s a serious issue. Those two have got to find a way not only to play together but to heighten each others’ strengths.
—Dave
And you think Brandon is astute enough to read that development down the road?
I thought Brandon just didn’t like the tempo/style change that Andre brought.
But maybe it’s the same difference, because Andre plays a style more conducive to low post scoring.
Nate’s got a lot on his plate!
Hard not to question Brandon’s character in the midst of all this.
"The only 'Advanced Metric' that matters is what you see with your eyes." -Timbo, Nov., 2009.
RE: Roy vs. Oden
Nate’s partially correct in that it is up to the players to figure out how to play well with each other. With more time playing together they will eventually strike a balance between Roy, LMA, and Oden. The success of these three playing well together at a high level is the key to Portland making any kind of big run in the playoffs. The problem is that right now this team looks totally discombobulated because they are still “figuring it out”. The coach’s job should be to help accelerate this growth, but right now it appears that Nate isn’t help this at all.
"Your best?!?!! Losers always whine about their best. Winners go home and &^%@ the prom queen"
2008 Civil War: Oregon 65 - Oregon State 38
by cloudydays on Nov 29, 2009 2:09 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
how can you tell that at this point?
"The only 'Advanced Metric' that matters is what you see with your eyes." -Timbo, Nov., 2009.
tell what?
"Your best?!?!! Losers always whine about their best. Winners go home and &^%@ the prom queen"
2008 Civil War: Oregon 65 - Oregon State 38
that nate is not helping this process?
seems to me, like we don’t have enough information to draw such a conclusion.
"The only 'Advanced Metric' that matters is what you see with your eyes." -Timbo, Nov., 2009.
The team's quotes, coupled with the play of the offense this year (aside from the first couple games)
also Nate’s quote where he basically says that the team needs to “figure it out”.
Calling out your team and saying they need to figure it out, not me; leads me to believe that he’s not speeding up the growth process too much…
"Your best?!?!! Losers always whine about their best. Winners go home and &^%@ the prom queen"
2008 Civil War: Oregon 65 - Oregon State 38
just hard to know
what the dynamics are like in that locker room.
In the big picture, Oden has to get integrated in to the offense. And that changes the offense. Add Miller, who helps Oden, but hurts Brandon, and you see it is going to be a rocky process. With the max contract, and the power that Brandon seems to want to exercise of late, I’m not sure Nate really is in the driver’s seat. Oh, and throw in injuries to two of your top 7 rotation players.
"The only 'Advanced Metric' that matters is what you see with your eyes." -Timbo, Nov., 2009.
Miller mainly hurts Roy
in the sense that Roy stands around out by himself on both offense and defense. I don’t have Comcast, so KGW is about my only way of viewing the team. Wow, there were a lot of people staying 10-15 feet away from anyone who MIGHT take a shot. I haven’t been in the “blame Roy” camp, but man, he was awful.
Nate says, he wants to play inside out.
But we always play outside in. If our jump-shot isn’t falling then we go inside. By then we are behind by 20 pts.
My question is does Nate make up plays for Greg, or does he leave it up to the players as to how and when to give Greg the ball. He is always saying we have to be able to knock down those shots. He wants us to go inside so we can suck in the D and kick it back out to the shooters. If we take it inside and the D knows that we are really trying to fool them to thinking we are going to actually shoot the inside shot, they just stay out on the shooters and cause a turn-over.
I am not pointing fingers, I just don’t know why.
hg
I think we have always wanted to go inside out - using LA as inside
But that works only for 1st and 3rd quarters and in the crunch time we are all outside in with Roy handling.
"Either way we have two phenomenal units. I'm excited to play with either one." - Martell Webster
After reading Quick's article today
I’d have to say the whole team feels unity. Everyone sounds excited about Greg’s dvelopment and the addition of Miller. Quick makes it sound like the players are frustrated with Nate’s attempts to keep the old offense of pick and rolls and add some new dum-it-down to Greg. I think they want a new offense that incoperates both those items. Also, I think Brandon doesn’t know how to be a vocal leader yet and is trying to figure out how to be vocal but not self-absorbed.
by sabonis11 on Nov 29, 2009 12:40 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Listening to Quick is like following James Jones - watch out for the coolaid
"Either way we have two phenomenal units. I'm excited to play with either one." - Martell Webster
lol
jim jones led a mass suicide in 1978. james jones is a 3-pt shooting power forward for the miami heat.
james begs you to not refer to jim jones as james.
dysfunctional approach to conflict:
Miller said he has never been used so little in any game he has played, but said he doesn’t plan to address McMillan with his concerns.
“Nah. I won’t say nothin’,” Miller said. “I keep my mouth closed and keep a movin’.”
What he says to the media and what he does behind closed doors could very well be two different things...
Plus, I think if Nate really is as down on Dre as it may appear to some, his teammates should be the one’s going to Nate and demanding that he play more….
RUDY > MJ
Miller's been getting plenty of burn
except for tonight. I don’t think that’s what’s going on here.
And as far as going to the media, what you say is certainly true. However, Brandon going to the media to complain about the direction of things indicates that they are not talking to each other. My sense here is that what Dre said is accurate.
"The only 'Advanced Metric' that matters is what you see with your eyes." -Timbo, Nov., 2009.
Miller was bloody awful in Utah - shooting 2 3's in 6 minutes? He is our worst 3-point shooter among those who shoot them
"Either way we have two phenomenal units. I'm excited to play with either one." - Martell Webster
both were shot as the clock expired
and in both cases he had just been passed the ball.
Dysfunctional? How?
How is this comment a dysfunctional way of dealing with the conflict?
"I keep my mouth closed and keep a movin’."
You’d prefer another player throwing the coach under the bus? Dre knows he’ll play, it’s just a matter of time. I mean, if he played 6 minutes and the Blazers had an efficient offensive blow-out WIN, he might be concerned.
His public take is to be a team player, and this is somehow dysfunctional??
talk is often overrated
Nate knows that Miller wants to play. What’s to talk about?
"The only 'Advanced Metric' that matters is what you see with your eyes." -Timbo, Nov., 2009.
Are you married?
"Aneurysm".
When Outlaw wins a game on a last-second shot, it’s called an "annthefaneurysm". QualityPie
by annthefan on Nov 29, 2009 2:07 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
different context
"The only 'Advanced Metric' that matters is what you see with your eyes." -Timbo, Nov., 2009.
It is a different context - marriage is a partnership - teams are directed by the coach
Marriage is intended to be permanent. Teams fluctuate in a few years with different players and different coaches. Communication is critical in marriage and important in teams but the team communication comes best through Roy (permanent) than Miller (very temporary). If Miller wants more playing time he is a veteran who knows he has to produce more efficiently when he does play. Not playing Miller was a communication by Nate that Miller needs to adjust. Miller might have already gotten the message.
"Either way we have two phenomenal units. I'm excited to play with either one." - Martell Webster
Its a failure of communication
You NEED communication to be succesful, especially between the head coach and the players. People need to stay on the same page.
If it is nate vs dre, I am solidly for dre at this point, but he DOES have a problem with this. He is a quiet guy, but this is really passive agressive. He knows what he wants, the coach knows what he wants, and we all know what he wants, but the problem is that Nate may be doing this for a reason that isn’t understood by anyone but nate. And by not talking it out with the coach, there is a HUGE chance that miscommunication is going on.
"We Believe" - Rudy Fernandez
it was one game
Nate does that. Miller was struggling. This issues with this offense are bigger than Andre Miller.
Besides, Miller has been getting plenty of burn lately.
"The only 'Advanced Metric' that matters is what you see with your eyes." -Timbo, Nov., 2009.
and how do you know that
Andre Miller is passive aggressive? He’s a smart guy, has been around. I suspect he knows when he has to speak up and in a highly competitive environment like this, it’s all about performance. If Miller makes the team better, he plays. If not, he doesn’t.
We just don’t know enough to say such things.
"The only 'Advanced Metric' that matters is what you see with your eyes." -Timbo, Nov., 2009.
Especially since the last time he spoke up...
it went so well for him…
Once again
Why does this team get into a hole in the first quarter? Well, one big reason is Steve Blake’s lack of defense. Tinsley last night, Williams tonight. Awful. More Andre, more Bayless, less Blake.
Nate’s going to lose some guys on this team if he tries playing Andre 6 minutes again. What’s this coach’s deal? I’m questioning him for the first time ever.
by travis13 on Nov 29, 2009 1:04 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Bayless has the tendency to commit dumb fouls and Miller isn't much better at the D than Blake.
Roybot.
Dirty Socks.
Miller is at least a little bit disrupting on D
The only Blake does on D is allow his guy to blow right by him. Miller does generate steals and will hit the boards, even if he also has trouble staying if front of his guy….
RUDY > MJ
Bayless is overaggressive, Blake is physically limited.
I would take overly aggressive in most situations.
Bayless puts pressure on the opposing PG. He tries to impede their movement around the court. He is trying to fight through screens; he is trying to stay in front of guys; and, he is demonstrating effort. Over time he will learn to stop hand-checking above the foul line. Over time he will start getting a little respect fro the zebras. Over time he will learn how to shade guys away from the screens. Over time, Bayless will become a much better defender.
Blake will not get any better. Because of his limited lateral quickness he has to play well off guys in order to try to stay in front of them, and they still blow by him with disturbing regularity. Because Blake plays defense so far off the opposing PG, he allows them to go wherever they want on the court. Because of his limited strength, he has great difficulty fighting through screens. Blake works hard on defense, and because he is a smart guy, he has learned how to mask a lot of his physical limitations. He actually does pretty well against about half the PGs in the league; but when he plays really fast guys with good penetrating skills, he gets exposed repeatedly.
If the Blazers are going to advance in the play-offs they need better PG defense. CP3, DWill, Parker, Brooks, Nash, are all guys we may very well face in the play-offs. All are almost certain to light up Steve Blake. Playing Bayless now is an investment in the Blazer’s future success. we will have to live with some dumb fouls and other mistakes in the short run, but we will reap the benefit in the long run.
Most fans seem to understand this principle with Oden, but many don’t seem to see the parallel with Bayless. Oden is getting better as he plays, so will Bayless. Bayless may not have the long arms to ever be a great PG defender, but he has strength, speed, and size. He has an aggressive mind-set and a relentless work ethic. Give him time and he will be good.
by upper left corner on Nov 29, 2009 9:03 AM PST up reply actions
Right on
Appreciate the comparison to people having patience (Nate) with Oden, and wanting to see him grow on the court. Why not with Bayless? He’s a little over-aggressive right now, but that’s largely because he’s told that that’s what he needs to bring when he gets in a game. His jumper is better than Andre’s, and his D is better than both of those guys. His passing is as good as Blake’s, at least.
I just think Andre should probably be the clear starter right now, and Bayless should be getting more minutes off the bench than Blake. Blake’s causing problems for this team all over the place. When he can’t check PGs (always the case), he’s putting pressure on the rest of the defense. This is the NBA, ugh, when you get beat off the dribble that regularly, when you can’t fight through a single screen, you’re hurting a team’s defense, their confidence in one another, and tiring them out.
Plus Bayless is
The only one on the current roster with the potential for filling that role.
"I play, Coach stays. He goes, I go." - Jimmy Chitwood
I think we are really missing Batum. The 1st quarter he would be gaurding the best wings.
They have been going nuts on us and it falls apart from there.
Land Rondo.
"He needs to realize that he can't stop every shot, especially from a smaller and offensively potent player. Get your hands up, make him shoot it over you, but let him shoot every once in a while. They score a little but you stay in the game a lot. And when you stay in the game...smashy smashy!" Dave on Greg Oden
by loyal_blazer on Nov 29, 2009 1:09 AM PST up reply actions
While Batum is missed, the core of this team is Roy, Oden and LMA.
Until we have the Super 3 clicking and believing in each other and their coach, it’s gonna be ugly. Batum and Outlaw being gone is only 5% of the problem, imo.
It is simple: Start Miller, give Oden 20 touches in 30 minutes per game, and do NOT extend Nate's contract. Problem solved.
by RenoBlazerFan on Nov 29, 2009 6:31 AM PST up reply actions
It is possible Nate was looking for a spark.
We were losing the game in a fast way. JBay has been playing pretty well. Maybe he thought it would help. then as the game progressed and our D never got better maybe he threw in the towel and let the Third string get some experience. They were playing better anyway.
I can’t question Nate, BRoy, Andre, LMA, Greg or Steve because I am just a spectator without the need to know what is going on.
hg
i love roy but...
…one thing that hasn’t gotten much mention that, in my opinion, is inexcusable: his complete mishandling of the end of the first quarter in each of the last two games. against memphis, he brings the ball down the court with 5 seconds left, with NO clue how much time is left in the quarter, and has to launch a 30 footer. today, he brings the ball over half court with much nonchalance, and dishes the ball to miller (?!?!) for a three at the buzzer.
when your superstar guard isn’t paying attention to the clock, you’ve got some major issues.
i am extremely frustrated with this team’s performance in the last two games.
Wow, the quotes in Quick's article sound like a team on the verge of imploding
I like Nate, but you had to see this coming. He had been getting into a very nasty habit of calling his guys out in the press (justified or not, doesn’t matter) and it looks like the chickens are coming home to roost. I still think KP is getting an undeserved pass on this one – this roster looks more like a Trader Bob grab the most talent you can than a thought out roster with stars and role players. I’m officially worried.
The Blazerverse and The Wire: A comparison
Brandon Roy = Stringer Bell (smooth technician dedicated to his craft)
Nate McMiillan = Cedric Daniels (well intentioned leader, but he can be too rigid for his own good at times)
Martell Webster = Wee Bey Brice (straight up solider who follows orders; every organization needs these guys to be successful)
Jerryd Bayless = Marlo Stanfield (he's new to the game, but he's watching and waitng; he will take over and there will be casualties)
Rudy Fernandez = Jimmy McNulty (he gets results, but the leadership wishes he was less of a wild man; the ladies love him)
Greg Oden = Michael Lee (he started off a quiet kid, but he's beginning to tap in to his huge potential to change the game)
Andre Miller = Lester Freamon (do not let the laconic demeanor fool you, the veteran knows what's up)
John Canzano = Scott Templeton (scummy muckraker who stays up at night polishing his award)
Ooooo,
dont start talking Trader Bob. I dont wanna think about it. I do feel these are all quality upstanding guys. At least they are right now.
Given what the team seems to feel about Andre based on the Oregonian article
it seems like he can fit in.
And if they can’t fit Oden in, they must not like winning very much.
Hopefully they can work it out.
I’m not highly invested in winning a championship, but lackluster is no fun to watch.
I agree they're good guys
but Channing said it best in a recent interview: Portland in his eyes didn’t/doesn’t have good chemistry because the roster is made up of talented young guys looking to establish themselves in the NBA. With one basketball and 240 minutes per game for 12 guys, it’s a tough sell. Nate is not blameless in this, but KP hasn’t done him as many favors as the talent on the roster would indicate.
The Blazerverse and The Wire: A comparison
Brandon Roy = Stringer Bell (smooth technician dedicated to his craft)
Nate McMiillan = Cedric Daniels (well intentioned leader, but he can be too rigid for his own good at times)
Martell Webster = Wee Bey Brice (straight up solider who follows orders; every organization needs these guys to be successful)
Jerryd Bayless = Marlo Stanfield (he's new to the game, but he's watching and waitng; he will take over and there will be casualties)
Rudy Fernandez = Jimmy McNulty (he gets results, but the leadership wishes he was less of a wild man; the ladies love him)
Greg Oden = Michael Lee (he started off a quiet kid, but he's beginning to tap in to his huge potential to change the game)
Andre Miller = Lester Freamon (do not let the laconic demeanor fool you, the veteran knows what's up)
John Canzano = Scott Templeton (scummy muckraker who stays up at night polishing his award)
by blazeraddict on Nov 29, 2009 1:16 AM PST up reply actions
What is your proposed solution? Cheap shot?
Your comment may have some merit. The team may have a disproportionate amount of young talent and an inadequate amount of quality vets.
On the other hand, KP built the team through the draft and through draft day trades. He had planned to add free agents to balance the roster, but Darius managed to screw that up and other teams asked for too much when KP tried to trade RLEC.
With all due respect, your criticism comes off as a bit of a cheap, after the fact, shot. What is your proposed solution? Should we trade away multiple young talents to bring in some aging star? Consolidation trades are notoriously tricky. Most work out badly for the team trading the young talent: O’Neal for Davis is a classic example. Not only is it hard to get a quality star with something left in the tank, it is hard to fit that aging star in with your young talent. Andre Miller is a pretty good case in point. Blake should have been sent to the bench straight away, but Nate and Roy both had their reasons for hesitating and that has caused turmoil.
by upper left corner on Nov 29, 2009 9:32 AM PST up reply actions
The Miles thing KP had no control over
but I think he really dropped the ball with RLEC. Again, it’s Monday morning QBing, but Blake and Travis or RLEC for Hinrich looks pretty good in retrospect – he plays the same style of game as Blake on offense (only better) and is a much better defender. Further, the Miller signing is something where it is apparent that the coach, star, and GM were not on the same page as far as how it would work when executed. I think KP got caught in a position where he felt like he had to do something, so when Turkoglu (thankfully – 5 years/60 million was nuts for that guy) and Millsap fell through, he needed to do something. Bass was also off the market by that point, so while Dre made the most sense on paper, the mess that has transpired since his signing makes me wonder how much communication between Nate, KP, and Roy took place on bringing Miller in/integrating him into the system.
Right now, I think KP needs to look at this roster, aside from the big 3, and figure out (1) what holes remain, (2) the ability of current personnel to fill those holes, and (3) whether or not the players are willing to accept their roles. Even if a player would be statistically better somewhere else, if KP and the brain trust come to the conclusion that they won’t fit in Portland within the context of the big 3, I’d be fine with a move.
The Blazerverse and The Wire: A comparison
Brandon Roy = Stringer Bell (smooth technician dedicated to his craft)
Nate McMillan = Cedric Daniels (well intentioned leader, but he can be too rigid for his own good at times)
Martell Webster = Wee Bey Brice (straight up solider who follows orders; every organization needs these guys to be successful)
Jerryd Bayless = Marlo Stanfield (he's new to the game, but he's watching and waitng; he will take over and there will be casualties)
Rudy Fernandez = Jimmy McNulty (he gets results, but the leadership wishes he was less of a wild man; the ladies love him)
Greg Oden = Michael Lee (he started off a quiet kid, but he's beginning to tap in to his huge potential to change the game)
Andre Miller = Lester Freamon (do not let the laconic demeanor fool you, the veteran knows what's up)
John Canzano = Scott Templeton (scummy muckraker who stays up at night polishing his award)
by blazeraddict on Nov 29, 2009 9:49 AM PST up reply actions
Hinrich would have been nice, but my understanding is that they wanted Bayless and Trout.....
KP wasn’t willing to pay that price. Given Hinrich’s numbers and Bayless’ improvement so far this season, I don’t think you can fault that decision. It may have hurt the team in the short run to pass on Hinrich, but I think Bayless is ultimately going to be very good.
I agree with the need for evaluation, but it is hard to give up on talented young guys w/o giving them a chance to show what they can really do. Letting Channing go for nothing made sense at the time, but doesn’t look so good in retrospect.
I think a lot of it depends on when you think our window opens. I thought we might have an outside chance this season, but I may have been premature. This may be a season to let Webster, Bayless, Cunningham. and Oden develop.
Part of my problem with Nate is that he seems so focused on the short term, he seems very reluctant to trust his young talent. We can’t make the right trade unless we know what we have and what we need.
By the way, Cunningham looks pretty good, do you think we still need another back-up PF?
by upper left corner on Nov 29, 2009 10:28 AM PST up reply actions
Agree with a lot of what you're saying
Bayless is going to be very good imo, but I think one of Miller/Blake (preferably Blake) needs to go or sit so he can get some court time.
I think a lot of it depends on when you think our window opens. I thought we might have an outside chance this season, but I may have been premature. This may be a season to let Webster, Bayless, Cunningham. and Oden develop.
I’m coming around on this as well. Initially, my thought was a Miller and a healthy GO + last year’s 54 win core = title contender. However, LMA has struggled, Pryz and Blake look like guys coming down from career years, and the injuries to Nic and Travis have hurt. This is a growth year, and I think we need to come around to that fact.
I agree, Dante has been a pleasant surprise, and I like him long term. I think h will struggle against big front lines, so I would like a Bass type, provided they’re willing to accept that role. My primary beef is that the early struggles are being presented as mostly a Nate problem – in my view, there is blame all the way around
The Blazerverse and The Wire: A comparison
Brandon Roy = Stringer Bell (smooth technician dedicated to his craft)
Nate McMillan = Cedric Daniels (well intentioned leader, but he can be too rigid for his own good at times)
Martell Webster = Wee Bey Brice (straight up solider who follows orders; every organization needs these guys to be successful)
Jerryd Bayless = Marlo Stanfield (he's new to the game, but he's watching and waitng; he will take over and there will be casualties)
Rudy Fernandez = Jimmy McNulty (he gets results, but the leadership wishes he was less of a wild man; the ladies love him)
Greg Oden = Michael Lee (he started off a quiet kid, but he's beginning to tap in to his huge potential to change the game)
Andre Miller = Lester Freamon (do not let the laconic demeanor fool you, the veteran knows what's up)
John Canzano = Scott Templeton (scummy muckraker who stays up at night polishing his award)
by blazeraddict on Nov 29, 2009 10:58 AM PST up reply actions
I wouldn't put too much stock in what the organization "said" the other team wanted..
In most cases, they’ll say something like this to save face, as to say “see? we tried but they just wanted way too much.” Also, it’s not like KP hasn’t pulled something like this before in what he leaks to the public. Sure, you don’t want everyone to know what is going on in your organization, but at the same time, don’t put too much stock in what the team says in these instances especially when most sources around the league reputes what the organization is saying.
Most sources around the league said that RLEC could have gotten us a nice player in return. The only source that said “oh, they wanted Batum” or “They wanted Bayless and Trout as well” are the Blazers. I’ll go with the majority rather than with the organization with a vested interest in not being completely truthful in this instance.
i don't see how letting channing go for nothing ever made sense
to me it’s one of the larger mistakes pritchard made but people don’t talk about it much. frye should have been traded after the ’08 season when he filled in for przybilla and average a double / double over the last dozen games or so.
pritchard knew that the following year he had przybilla, oden and aldridge. there was never going to be room for frye to see minutes and his value was high.
he should have been dealt then.
it is hard to given up on talented young guys but sometimes that’s what you do to get better players. my brother was actually angry when the celtics (he’s a fan) traded jefferson and gomes for garnett.
he thought they gave away a great young big man for a guy that would probably only play 2 more seasons. he may be right, but they did win a championship because of it.
consolidating talent is harder than acquiring it, but it is part of what separates great gm’s from good ones.
like the sig even tho i havnt watched the show.
Nate has been making poor decisions for a while. His vision is seriously lacking. He has carried himself with a “don’t question me” aura that KP does not even interfere with. That approach is fine, but once everyone figures out you may be the problem the house of cards comes down FAST.
Land Rondo.
"He needs to realize that he can't stop every shot, especially from a smaller and offensively potent player. Get your hands up, make him shoot it over you, but let him shoot every once in a while. They score a little but you stay in the game a lot. And when you stay in the game...smashy smashy!" Dave on Greg Oden
by loyal_blazer on Nov 29, 2009 1:17 AM PST up reply actions
True
My main point is the blame is not solely on Nate. However, it is exponentially easier to replace a coach than players – Nate should know this and take heed.
The Blazerverse and The Wire: A comparison
Brandon Roy = Stringer Bell (smooth technician dedicated to his craft)
Nate McMiillan = Cedric Daniels (well intentioned leader, but he can be too rigid for his own good at times)
Martell Webster = Wee Bey Brice (straight up solider who follows orders; every organization needs these guys to be successful)
Jerryd Bayless = Marlo Stanfield (he's new to the game, but he's watching and waitng; he will take over and there will be casualties)
Rudy Fernandez = Jimmy McNulty (he gets results, but the leadership wishes he was less of a wild man; the ladies love him)
Greg Oden = Michael Lee (he started off a quiet kid, but he's beginning to tap in to his huge potential to change the game)
Andre Miller = Lester Freamon (do not let the laconic demeanor fool you, the veteran knows what's up)
John Canzano = Scott Templeton (scummy muckraker who stays up at night polishing his award)
by blazeraddict on Nov 29, 2009 1:19 AM PST up reply actions
These guys need a coach
who they all buy into. Nate hasn’t wowed anyone on this team with his coaching ability, which seems suspect at times (well not at times, alot of the time). You have to have respect, Nate dont got it right now it seems.
Andre Miller: 6 minutes, 2 assists, 2 turnovers, 0-4 shooting. Yuck.
Yeah, Right, It’s all Andre Millers fault, He killed us tonight, that six minutes he played totally was our undoing. Blake was great though, And Nate coached an Absolute Masterpiece again tonight. He definitely out coached Jerry Sloan!
Go Nate! Go Nate!
Miller was playing horribly
It was his own agenda out there. Now whether he should have been benched for it, I don’t know. But it was an obvious bad performance. And nobody said Blake was great. In fact I think I used the word “inept” to describe his performance early on.
—Dave
The past two games had me hating the way Miller played
He watches the team shoot jumpers to death and goes out and does the same thing. Nice vet leadership.
"Oden is a man among cub scouts."
by Tyrusmancrush on Nov 23, 2009 9:08 PM PST
by Sabonis4Ever on Nov 29, 2009 2:38 AM PST up reply actions
Or a nice offensive gameplan...
I have never seen Nate coach a system that wasn’t jumpshot happy. 12 solid years of play from Miller says this is a system thing and not a Miller thing IMO….
RUDY > MJ
by Rudiculous on Nov 29, 2009 2:47 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Nate told him to shoot threes?
"Oden is a man among cub scouts."
by Tyrusmancrush on Nov 23, 2009 9:08 PM PST
by Sabonis4Ever on Nov 29, 2009 2:56 AM PST up reply actions
I imagine that Nate does tell him to stand in the corner though...
It has been the one thing that has consistently pissed me off about nates “sets”, point guards, regardless of shooting ability, get stuffed in the corner when Broy has the ball. It happened to Jack, it happened to Sergio, and now it is happening to Miller….
RUDY > MJ
No, the 2 FBP passes made him shoot threes.
Half of his 4 shots were stupid last second passes to him so he had no choice. One at the end of the 1st quarter had Roy slowly bring the ball up the court with 9 seconds left and then literally throw the ball to Miller, who was guarded and 2 feet outside the 3 point line, with 1 second left.
Which Blazer ever plays good in Utah- especially on a back-to-back?
The only way Portland was going to win this game was by having their shirt together. And we all know trouble is brewing in PDX, which makes for a pretty bitter beer.
This whole thing started with Nate not benching Blake for Miller and then trying to spin varies tales for why this was the best choice (sorry you can’t hide the “I’m a control freak coach” as the major reason). Miller represents freedom of choice in the offense- a big no no in a Nate World
Then as Oden emerged as a legit offensive option, you actually had to have plays for him. But Nate only knows the pick and “tough jump shot here”. No off the ball movement, no cutters, no curls – that kind of offense requires the team to just go out and play off each other. A control freak coach can’t have that kind of free range movement.
And all of the defensive issues are usually resolved when the team is comfortable scoring- then they don’t mind putting some energy into the other side of the court.
Sadly, I think you are on to something here....
This whole thing started with Nate not benching Blake for Miller and then trying to spin varies tales for why this was the best choice (sorry you can’t hide the "I’m a control freak coach" as the major reason). Miller represents freedom of choice in the offense- a big no no in a Nate World
It seems like Nate is a guy who has achieved success by doing a few things very well. He is hard working, disciplined and risk-averse. These are good qualities, however, the flip side of these qualities is often limited vision and rigidity. I am really starting to wonder if Nate can be flexible enough to take the next step as this team grows.
by upper left corner on Nov 29, 2009 9:48 AM PST up reply actions
I've been afraid of this development for a while
teach discipline to the young, and you help them. Fail to take the leash off and you hold them back. Part 1 is done. Part 2 is not.
by blacknoiseNW on Nov 29, 2009 10:41 AM PST up reply actions
I love the point some user made in another topic---
How many PG’s have been successful under Nate(-Blake)? In all honesty the Blazers are growing faster than Nate. If someone like Larry Brown was coaching them last year, they win 60.
Land Rondo.
"He needs to realize that he can't stop every shot, especially from a smaller and offensively potent player. Get your hands up, make him shoot it over you, but let him shoot every once in a while. They score a little but you stay in the game a lot. And when you stay in the game...smashy smashy!" Dave on Greg Oden
I like Nate
but it is starting to feel like this team is outgrowing him. They were good last year because they kept it fairly simple and this year with all the weapons they just cant keep things simple anymore. Its up to the coach to make the new wrinkles work and this is not being done…
Until KP is willing to trade JB, nobody will want Blake packaged in a deal
Nate should play the guys depending on the matchup, but never play either of them less than 15 minutes or more than 30 minutes, and give Bayless 5-10 minutes if possible. No point in keeping a player if you’re gonna glue him to the end of the bench.
"Left hand, right hand, it doesn't matter. I'm amphibious." - Charles Shackleford
"We're shooting 100 percent - 60 percent from the field and 40 percent from the free-throw line." - Norm Stewart
well gary payton and luke ridnour did pretty well
and you really think larry brown would win us 60? I guess thats why hes coached 4 teams in the last 5 years. and i always like to remember what happened to the sonics when nate left. they went from 52 wins to 35 with the same team. hmmm be careful what you wish for.
I tend to agree but the Sonics lost more than Nate that year
Rashard Lewis signed with Orlando and Jerome James signed with New York (ok – that last one was a joke).
"Either way we have two phenomenal units. I'm excited to play with either one." - Martell Webster
What troubles me is that Roy, Miller, and Co. seem to be questioning Nate’s ability to lead this team. I wouldn’t normally advocate for a guy like Mac to be fired mid-season on a playoff bound team, but it’s pretty hard to be successful when the players have no faith in the coaching staff.
Of course, all of us could be overreacting and misinterpreting the quotes, which is very possible. It would be nice to see what info Ben can get once the team gets back to Portland.
Roybot.
Dirty Socks.
Reading too much into frustration
is often dangerous. Players are always semi-frustrated with their coach unless they’re the clear #1 guy for everything, then their coach usually follows in their wake so there’s no reason. The frustration comes out less when winning, more when losing. A guy like Andre Miller has a lot of inherent reasons to be frustrated with a guy like Nate. He’s been in the league 14 years doing things his way. Any adjustment is going to rankle, let alone adjusting to a Nate team. Nate, meanwhile, has had to run a tight ship. How successfully he can loosen up and how his team responds when he does are open questions. But you know the introduction of a prying-bar like Miller is going to cause some tension.
How much of this tension lingers and how much just passes over when wins come remains to be seen. But if we want a clear picture it’s important not to jump to solid conclusions based on a few quotes after two hard losses. Yes, there’s tension. That doesn’t mean a complete loss of confidence, lack of faith, or what have you. It means there’s tension.
The situation is analagous to a GM saying a guy needs to work on some things and everybody saying he’s on the trading block…or a GM saying he loves a guy’s work ethic and everybody saying he’s untouchable now. There’s a reason KP has clammed up over the years. He knows how far we’ll jump based on only moderate (or sometimes less) stimulus.
—Dave
by Dave on Nov 29, 2009 1:37 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Here I am a few hours ago:
Y’all are pessimistic.
Roybot.
Dirty Socks.
by L-TrainFTW! on Nov 28, 2009 7:15 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
smh @ L-Train
Roybot.
Dirty Socks.
I think defense is the bigger problem, not offense
Our defense has been so bad. Utah kept catching the ball with deep deep position for little 3 foot layups plus they kept getting open jumpers off the pick and roll. Our defense just hasn’t been there last few games.
"Rudy is not everyday a shooter," Fernandez said. "He's defense. He's passes. He's assists."
My concern (and I'm not really that concerned, just up and feeling like posting)
That the guys’ approach to feeling unhappy with their coach is to sulk.
Sure, I agree it’s up to the coach to design an offensive strategy.
But it cannot be denied that Roy has played some stupid basketball, including multiple instances of losing track of the game clock. That’s not Nate’s fault.
Dave, no one seems willing to go near your first point: Could Roy be against the rise of Oden?
This seems a legitimate possibility. If Brandon’s scoring avg drops to 18pts/gm would he be happy with this? Even if it meant a better constructed offense for Wins? Maybe he wouldn’t make the All-Star Team as automatically. Brandon may not be the same person that he was 2 years ago.
ignacio
I've been thinking of this for a couple weeks now
but I’ve held off on writing a post because it’s been speculation. But the potential is there. I’m not sure it would be because Brandon would be unhappy scoring less or unwilling to have a co-star. It’s more that Oden’s presence is messing with Brandon’s scoring juju and LaMarcus’ as well. Oden clogs the lane, bringing other defenders in. Oden needs the ball in order for the Blazers to have their best success this year. Oden rightfully should begin assuming LMA’s role as the initial scoring threat to start the game, drawing the defense so everyone else can play off of him and succeed.
There’s not necessarily animosity there, but there are a lot of things working against a smooth transition to the new playing style.
—Dave
For all of these speculative comments about BRoy
He has done nothing but back off when called out on topics like this.
I am sure he is getting a bigger head, but the real Brandon will always be there, just may need to be reminded of who he is/wants to be at times.
Land Rondo.
"He needs to realize that he can't stop every shot, especially from a smaller and offensively potent player. Get your hands up, make him shoot it over you, but let him shoot every once in a while. They score a little but you stay in the game a lot. And when you stay in the game...smashy smashy!" Dave on Greg Oden
by loyal_blazer on Nov 29, 2009 1:51 AM PST up reply actions
Roy's comments tonight about how much better things ran last year
sound like he might prefer Greg to be a better-offensive rebounding version of Joel.
ignacio
Yeah, he may need an attitude adjustment
Bottom line, Kobe is getting stats while sharing the lane with Lamar, Gasol, Bynum and Mbenga for Pete’s sake. His game and all of the players games’ need to grow to embrace and master many styles of play. If they think 1 way of doing things is going to bring them a championship, then the real age of this team is really showing.
Land Rondo.
"He needs to realize that he can't stop every shot, especially from a smaller and offensively potent player. Get your hands up, make him shoot it over you, but let him shoot every once in a while. They score a little but you stay in the game a lot. And when you stay in the game...smashy smashy!" Dave on Greg Oden
by loyal_blazer on Nov 29, 2009 1:57 AM PST up reply actions
That I would buy
There’s an on-court style reason behind it. There’s also cultural reason. Oden has been given a lot of credit compared to Roy and Aldridge. Both of them performed quite well out of the gate and thus earned their positions early. Greg had a rough time out of the gate but got his position anyway. I think everybody knows that was the right call and we’re seeing the proof of that in his play now. But that doesn’t change the fact that his path was different.
I’m not saying this is so, but it does make sense in certain ways. Then again, a lot of things that seem to make sense are absolutely untrue. I don’t think we’ll ever know for sure. We just have to anticipate that this will all settle out in the long run, that all of the major players want to win more than they want to do anything else, and we all have to hold on in the meantime.
—Dave
Because of being the #1 pick, supposedly the best big man in 10 years,
Greg has been a “star” way before he’s ever earned such attention on an NBA court. Lamarcus, by contrast, still gets his name mispronounced on TNT and ESPN. And the Rose Garden crowd yells more loudly when Oden dunks or blocks a shot than they do in response to anything else.
This HAS to provide fuel for some resentment.
ignacio
I agree about LMA
I made that point yesterday on this forum.
LMA has the same stat line as Greg +1 rebound on the 24/12 night. Did anyone mention it? No. LMA has been underappreciated IMO. Is he perfect? No. Could he be more rugged? Yes.
It’s no one’s fault, but we got another kid out there who deserves some attention— he’s been pulling better grades, longer.
Land Rondo.
"He needs to realize that he can't stop every shot, especially from a smaller and offensively potent player. Get your hands up, make him shoot it over you, but let him shoot every once in a while. They score a little but you stay in the game a lot. And when you stay in the game...smashy smashy!" Dave on Greg Oden
by loyal_blazer on Nov 29, 2009 2:15 AM PST up reply actions
Conflict isn't always bad
and doesn’t always involve people acting big-headed or out of character. Some conflict happens naturally because there’s just a conflict of styles and/or needs. Brandon doesn’t have to hate or resent or envy Oden to have problems, all he has to do is notice that Oden’s presence makes it a little harder for him to drive and/or control the ball as much as he used to.
As far as the other…Brandon and LaMarcus didn’t get along at first. Then they found a way to make it work. Maybe the same process is happening here.
—Dave
by Dave on Nov 29, 2009 1:57 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Point taken.
Is part of the solution to making it a little bit harder to score with him in the paint to play a little better? LOL
Land Rondo.
"He needs to realize that he can't stop every shot, especially from a smaller and offensively potent player. Get your hands up, make him shoot it over you, but let him shoot every once in a while. They score a little but you stay in the game a lot. And when you stay in the game...smashy smashy!" Dave on Greg Oden
by loyal_blazer on Nov 29, 2009 2:02 AM PST up reply actions
Home grown
Hello!
So this is my first comment of any kind, but I’ve been a long, loooong time lurker and reader since back in the days of Dave’s “Blazer Thoughts.” Which I believe was back in the Warren G. Harding administration. I’ve always appreciated and eagerly read the discussion.
This isn’t a profound comment, and I guess I’m finally chiming in during kind of a low moment, but I wonder how many of of these issues that have us all scratching our heads have to do with the fact that most of our key players have been raised as Blazers and only ever known life with one team. We had a nice “rebuilding” phase that involved doing a lot of teaching with young players, shaped around one coach’s offense. We sat pretty patiently as fans through all of that, and it seemed to reach a point of pay-off last season, with a with a lot of wins and players finally reaching a comfort zone. Now there have been a lot of changes, and last year’s telestrator has been shaken up like an etch-a-sketch.
I guess I just wonder if a team with more of a mixed roster of veterans and journeymen would be reacting this same way. Coaches and players shuffle all the time in the NBA, and players that have been through a number of systems tend to adapt pretty well. Our Blazers seem a little shell shocked right now. I suppose Andre Miller has been around the league, but he seems more now like an army brat student who just transferred into private school. If he was on a team full of fellow veterans it might be different, but he’s keeping his head down, saying the right things and trying to fit in.
Hopefully this will all sort out— I get the feeling that it’s easy to over-react to Quick’s article. Journalists like a story, which often means that selected quotes get blown up and more drama gets written in than really exists. But man, I’d be curious to hear some of KP’s thoughts right now. He’s usually the man of 1000 interviews, and we haven’t heard from him in what feels like forever.
Right now I feel like our actual issues are small— some rotation questions, an odd trend of never looking for mismatches, and a few (okay, several) kinks in the defense that need to be worked out. Nothing that NBA teams don’t address all the time. Even though for us right now it feels like the apocalypse. It SHOULD be easy to rally the team, go back to playing to some strengths, and thenmake some adjustments. Right, Nate? … Um, right? Forced optimism! Go Blazers.
by HowlinJoeWolf on Nov 29, 2009 2:30 AM PST up reply actions 6 recs
Thanks!
For all that I did vote for “cat who ate the drippings and died” in the poll.
This game did stink.
And these last two games are just … weird. Remember last season when it felt like every other game we were in the middle of some heroic comeback? It was like falling behind was part of the plan, and then 4th quarter magic would kick in, with Outlaw or Roy lighting it up. Our cats smelled pretty fresh then.
Wha happened?
by HowlinJoeWolf on Nov 29, 2009 2:52 AM PST up reply actions
You did great...
Don’t be shy about posting.
Rec
RoadBlazer
I just don't see how Bird, McHale, and Parrish can't work together
These guys all need the ball to be successful and there is only one BB. I would be shocked if they ever become a winning team…
by tradeblake on Nov 29, 2009 9:53 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Nicely done...
All championship teams have three guys… Oden, LMA, and BRoy should be ours, with Rudy a close fourth, if we develop them properly… (Batum’s return is going to be a big difference, as he is top 5 on that team.)
Two quotes that has me curious.
Greg saying that Andre is like a breath of fresh air. And The Oregonian quote saying Oden tapped him on the knee and offered a fist, which Miller bumped. Makes me wonder if Miller and Greg is unhappy with BRoy and Nate.
Don't read negativity into a positive gesture?
"Either way we have two phenomenal units. I'm excited to play with either one." - Martell Webster
BRoy and Oden
I don’t know, I think Roy truly believes, as he should, that Greg’s presence will make him a better player and make this team a legit title contender. And I truly believe that this is what Roy wants—he gets upset sometimes, but he’s been consistent in effort, I think.
But how often have we seen Brandon and Greg play a screen and roll game for multiple possessions in a quarter? Not much. I think it’s time to go directly to what should be and will be the strongest part of this offense. Pick and roll, Greg and Roy, with Aldridge cutting on the backside, then at times faking the cut and popping. Let the two best players, Roy and Oden, run this offense together.
Roy already has his max contract
Why would he care if Oden carries more of the load?
"Oden is a man among cub scouts."
by Tyrusmancrush on Nov 23, 2009 9:08 PM PST
by Sabonis4Ever on Nov 29, 2009 2:39 AM PST up reply actions
Because he has a history of that sort of thing....
"Oden is a man among cub scouts."
by Tyrusmancrush on Nov 23, 2009 9:08 PM PST
by Sabonis4Ever on Nov 29, 2009 2:43 AM PST up reply actions
Brandon Roy should be more cared about wins than stats
I mean, that’s what kept him different from some of the other strong wing superstars the past few years. Kobe always looks to see how many points and KBA’s he can get. Melo was exactly like that until last season (although sometimes he still has those moments). I hate Lebron James. Random.
"Left hand, right hand, it doesn't matter. I'm amphibious." - Charles Shackleford
"We're shooting 100 percent - 60 percent from the field and 40 percent from the free-throw line." - Norm Stewart
Changes
Its glaringly obvious that changes need to happen, the problem is we have a GM that has openly stated he doesn’t like making deals midway through the season. I assume this goes for his opinion on firing coaches mid-season as well. Even if he did pull the trigger and give Nate the boot, who are we going to get to replace him? Does Monty Williams step in and take over? Is there really anyone out there who we’d do better under? Lets make a list of the top coaching candidates…
Jeff Van Gundy
Byron Scott
Mike Fratello
Mark Jackson
Rudy T??
Isaiah Thomas??!?
Help me out here…
Van Gundy is actually intriguing….
waiting for AK's JVG post now
And yes he would be the best candidate imo.
You can measure skill and talent with your eyes, but productivity is shown through statistics.
Need a coach
strong enough to stand up to the team’s leaders, charismatic enough to persuade everyone to sacrifice some of their game for the greater good, and smart enough to craft a winning strategy and teach players to execute it.
"I've hacked into your brain. You're throwing a party and no one's showing up."
Well, that's Phil and Pop
Everyone else falls fairly short of those standards, which makes sense because most of the rings for this decade have been divvied up between the two.
The next tier is Avery Johnson, Jeff Van Gundy, and the soon-to-be-fired Lawrence Frank, all of whom wouldn’t be a bad fit with this team.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
No Franks
I still like the idea of Van Gundy…he’s actually coached teams in the past with Dominant big men AND superstar wings….
Van Gundy has a remunerative, high profile gig as a broadcaster.
I have the feeling he wouldn’t leave that/be able to get out of it until next summer. I may well be wrong. Not that I anticipate or would advocate firing Nate until the off-season in any case — at this point I still certainly favor Nate, but NBA players tend to tune out coaches after I think an average of 3 years.
ignacio
Van Gundy spoke openly on Simmons podcast
about wanting to come back to coaching, even as an assistant. I’m willing to give Nate until the end of the season, I figure we owe him at least that. Bringing in a new coach midway doesnt seem like the most logical thing to me anyway…I’m curious to see the success rate…how many new coaches have actually taken their teams further than the previous year.
Well, Van Gundy's the possibility out there as far as I'm concerned
as he gets his teams to play defense and can take media pressure (after coaching in NYC). The players would have to listen hard for some time.
ignacio
VanGundy is getting paid good money as a broadcaster
Blazers need to guarantee him 3-4 years mininum for him to agree to it. Too bad they can’t trade coaches. Larry Brown with the Blazers would be…interesting. They’d probably score only 85 ppg in his highly strict, very slow offense, but allow only like 80 ppg in his old-school defense. They’d consistently get 55+ wins, but they wouldn’t be fun to watch at all.
"Left hand, right hand, it doesn't matter. I'm amphibious." - Charles Shackleford
"We're shooting 100 percent - 60 percent from the field and 40 percent from the free-throw line." - Norm Stewart
phoenix gave terry porter too long last season
and missed the playoffs because of it. i can understand the sentiment but if it’s clear the team is taking a big step backwards making a coaching change mid-season could be in order.
you want to fire a coach after two bad games and want help choosing.
Go suck an egg. How many teams has made it to the championship by firing coaches and hiring new ones, only to find out that the new ones weren’t much better then the old.
hg
by BBK on Nov 29, 2009 9:02 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
IF Blazers fall to .500, Nate is getting fired
"Left hand, right hand, it doesn't matter. I'm amphibious." - Charles Shackleford
"We're shooting 100 percent - 60 percent from the field and 40 percent from the free-throw line." - Norm Stewart
This isn't just about the last 2 games...
This is something that has been building for a year or more if you’ve been paying attention. Previous comments about Nate’s rigidity and him being better as a college coach are spot on, in my opinion. He is now at the point of holding the team back and frankly, I’ve never been impressed with Nates coaching. He is consistently out-coached and is usually bailed out by fantastic play by his players. Previous to last year, his ineptness was hidden, because the Blazers were rebuilding and expectations were not high. Now however, he is sitting square in the blinding white light of high expectations and we are seeing him for what he is: not a very good coach, and it’s been that way from day one. The players are losing faith in his system, because they also have high expectations, but they are not being utilized to maximize their strengths. The end result is confusion and complacency, the last two games being a perfect reflection of that.
by redwraith on Nov 29, 2009 1:01 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
We have never seen Nate in this situation..
Let’s see how he does.
RoadBlazer
I think tonight's game was about two things
They got good shots and made them. We got mostly crappy shots and mostly missed them.
I feel like with the players we have, we should at least be able to get good shots.
You can measure skill and talent with your eyes, but productivity is shown through statistics.
I am not up to date on Larry Brown, but he seems like the perfect guy for us right now.
Maybe he has lost “it” in the last few years….desire, ability…I dont know, but I would be willing to wait a season and try to bring him in
Land Rondo.
"He needs to realize that he can't stop every shot, especially from a smaller and offensively potent player. Get your hands up, make him shoot it over you, but let him shoot every once in a while. They score a little but you stay in the game a lot. And when you stay in the game...smashy smashy!" Dave on Greg Oden
he's never the perfect guy
unless you want all of your players traded away for aging veterans that he’s coached before.
Well, Lawrence Frank is going to be fired tomorrow
So he’ll be available.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
hahah
That’s awful….
“Well honey, I’m going in to work today so I can get fired…wish me luck!” said the man with two first names.
not so bad
when you consider the buyouts these guys get. A coaches life. Who needs job security when they’re paying you milliions?
"The only 'Advanced Metric' that matters is what you see with your eyes." -Timbo, Nov., 2009.
No doubt.
I don’t feel 100% bad for these guys. They get millions. There is quite a bit of unemployment out there and they do not have millions to sit on. Poor them, they had to go golf in Hawaii for 6 months before they get hired again.
Do a great job and you’ll keep it. Do a poor one and youll still be able to retire for life if you wish.
Land Rondo.
"He needs to realize that he can't stop every shot, especially from a smaller and offensively potent player. Get your hands up, make him shoot it over you, but let him shoot every once in a while. They score a little but you stay in the game a lot. And when you stay in the game...smashy smashy!" Dave on Greg Oden
by loyal_blazer on Nov 29, 2009 2:17 AM PST up reply actions
Six Day Old Cat Drippings
I’m glad there was some football tonight, I couldn’t handle watching that game without another channel to flip to. Stanford put on a show and I gave up, just how bad do things have to get when I want to watch Notre Freakin’ Dame instead of the Blazers?!
I don’t care who throws who under the bus as long as somebody is at the wheel! Watching Oden develop and work so hard, I have to wonder what would happen if he stepped up the way Brandon Roy did when the team needed leadership a couple years ago. If this turns into a slide somebody has to take control and it does not have to be Roy.
The only good thing about this mess is Dave, he can make me smile after a ugly cat dripping blowout loss.
Dre is injured.
Brandon doesn’t think Oden is far enough along for the team to put so much emphasis on him.
This is going to be a rocky year, but the team won’t implode.
My team went to the playoffs in my first year.
All that matters is getting it figured out before the playoffs.
"Oden is a man among cub scouts."
by Tyrusmancrush on Nov 23, 2009 9:08 PM PST
by Sabonis4Ever on Nov 29, 2009 3:42 AM PST up reply actions
they need to make those though
that isn’t going to be easy. the same 8 teams that were in last year are all contending and you can add okc and phoenix to the list. 10 teams going for 8 spots.
not a gimme at all.
I think Dante needs to be played a bit more as an energy guy.
There was so little effort at the beginning of the game.
"Left hand, right hand, it doesn't matter. I'm amphibious." - Charles Shackleford
"We're shooting 100 percent - 60 percent from the field and 40 percent from the free-throw line." - Norm Stewart
I am surprised that others have not noticed that Miller is injured
There seemed little point in playing him when he cannot rotate on defense and cannot drive to the hole. I would like Nate to play him minimal minutes to keep his streak alive (I don’t care about the streak but Dre does and Nate would lose him completely) and allow him time to heal and get back to his normal capabilities.
"Either way we have two phenomenal units. I'm excited to play with either one." - Martell Webster
Is it just me?
Or is it strange that the Oregonian sports media seems to be telling a completely different story than BlazersEdge. I thought BlazersEdge was a site by fans for fans. In Quicks article on oregonlive.com he was giving us a look at what is really going on between the players. I think the most important thing in this situation is to understand that everyone sees there is a problem. It is just a matter of time before someone finds the solution. This team is made of guys willing to put in the effort to make it work, and Quick’s article shows the camaraderie that has developed. I have faith that this next week will show the teams true will on the court revealed again.
That depends
on what you think you’re hearing at each place. I’m at a loss to respond until I understand better what you perceive as our story and theirs and what you think is at stake for the team in each.
—Dave
Jason Quick has a long history of writing stories with a sensational slant
He wants readership across the country and this story gets it. He does not care if his stories are unfairly presenting the situation. He is all about himself and getting promoted to ESPN. I have seen the same dynamic played out in Dallas with the NFL writer there and it worked. It is the exact formula that ESPN promotes every day and the reader should be wary of the value in the stories of such writers/reporters. Having studied some Journalism (( grew up idolizing Grantland Rice) I was impressed with the trust placed in the journalist to accurately portray the events or conditions described. Jason Quick has not, imo, lived up to that standard.
I hasten to add that Quick does often have the first information of changes coming and the Blazers have long taken the position that they will support him with information when they are ready to release it. So the majority of his writings are informative and helpful. It is that handful with the potential to be sensational, that he does not seem inclined to resist, which makes him toxic to me.
"Either way we have two phenomenal units. I'm excited to play with either one." - Martell Webster
As much as I hate the Lakers
Phil Jackson would be the perfect coach for this team (then again, he would be the perfect coach for any team). But since this isn’t going to happen, My next choice would be to bring Rick Adelman back, which I have wanted for two years now. Anyone could see from the moment Roy and Aldridge were drafted, that Nate was only going to get us to this point, but we need a new coach to become a truly dominant team on the level of the Lakers, Cavs, Celtics and Magic.
I wish Nate would run some sets with Brandon feeding Greg
Instead of having Greg set a high pick for Brandon. Have Brandon run cuts or spot up for threes off of the entry pass. Have the offside guard set a pick down low for LMA to pop out to the free throw line. Get’s the big three involved in positions they can be successful. If Brandon can’t get Greg the ball have him pick Brandon to give him a baseline move and then have Greg roll to the basket.
Practice, repeat, practice, repeat, practice, repeat.
"I saw him in the face" Sergio's quote on the latest alley-oop to Rudy.
bravo Dave...
Beautiful and I’m smiling… you did your job today, and you are awsome……
carry on good sir.
The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out, burns out farms, and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.
Head Czar of Amerika <--- Mortimer said so so there!!!
WHY DON'T DAVE GET REC
The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out, burns out farms, and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.
Head Czar of Amerika <--- Mortimer said so so there!!!
Again I say, don't panic
Clearly there are some issues that need to be worked out, but it’s a little early to declare failure and start blowing things up. A couple bad games are not the end of the world, what’s important here is how they deal with this.
Problems have been festering below the surface all season, now they seem to be coming to a head. Whether this is a step toward clearing up the trouble, or if it will require amputation, remains to be seen; don’t bring out the bone saw prematurely.
Interesting how all this disarray started right after they played their best game so far this season against Chicago. Maybe the fact that Roy didn’t contribute much offensively in that game is a clue to the problem. But yet, Roy has been playing pretty well – it’s his teammates who don’t seem to know how to cope.
I interpreted Brandon’s “That’s why coaches coach” remark as a plea for the coach to come up with something – that Roy doesn’t know how to fix this, never mind that Nate McMillan says the players need to work it out. Running some two-man plays with Oden and Roy does sound like a promising idea.
Wow
Where to start?
For me the biggest WTF during the game was the Second Half starting line-up. Team gets embarrassed at home the previous game,gets blown away early in First Half. Perfect chance to make a point by benching a player or two,and Nate trots out his starters as if everything is fine.
As to the Roy/LMA pick-n-roll not being what it used to be,do the Blazers ever run it anymore? Perhaps it’s selective memory on my part,but I don’t remember more than 1-2 a game.
Rudy coming off screens is very good,Rudy standing still,not so good. Free hint.
If the article quoted is an accurate account of what Roy said-and what Roy meant to say-not good at all. Roy has gone from “we’re confused” to “I” don’t know what we’re doing. This from a player who supposedly talks to Nate on the phone more than two teenaged girls.
Hopefully,Nate’s remarks were severely edited. Because normally a coach would talk about the team not executing the offense/defense,that chemistry is something the players develope on their own. Not that it’s up to players to figure out how to design an offense while out on the court.
(That’s what’s so troubling about the Roy qoute. He’s really saying the coaching staff doesn’t know what they’re doing.)
It is still early,some practice and a good win and this might all blow over. But some serious work does need to be done.
Two words: Disappointment & Confused
What’s a Disappointment? This year’s guard play – From Roy to down to Bayless.
What’s Confused? The entire team.
sidenote: Nate needs to quit tagging Aldridge as a co-leader along side Roy. LA is a loyal soldier, but definitely not leader material.
Portland's PG of the Future - MORE John Wall
Treat people well because Karma can hit you at any second.
Basic flaw
As I see it, This team has a significant flaw. None of our prime players are true athletes in the basketball sense of the word.
A basketball player needs to be able to shoot off the dribble, slash to the basket, move laterally, create his own shot,and have a high BB IQ in order to implement these skills.
Roy- needs way too much time to get his shot off and doesn’t play defense.
LA- moves awkwardly, has only one low post move across the lane- hook shot that has no touch to it.
Oden- lots of potential but no grace.
Rudy- no jump shot unless he’s set.
Outlaw- clumsy, predictable, no hands, no defense.
Blake- a joke
Miller- old and plays old.
Webster, Bayless, Batum, and Cunningham are our best athletes but need time.
Our coach has not developed a system on both ends that can adapt to the opponents’ strengths and weaknesses.
What troubles me most is how hard we have to work to get our shots off while other teams have systems that create open looks.
Rudy has no jump shot unless he is set?
His shooting percentage when he is set is the problem, not vice versa
by blacknoiseNW on Nov 29, 2009 10:47 AM PST up reply actions
Outlaw isn't that bad...
If you need athletes, I’m sure there are teams willing to trade some for Greg Oden
"Left hand, right hand, it doesn't matter. I'm amphibious." - Charles Shackleford
"We're shooting 100 percent - 60 percent from the field and 40 percent from the free-throw line." - Norm Stewart
Bottom Line.
This team has out grown it’s coach. They need a big time coach now. One that has some vision when it comes to offensive and defensive strategies. They need a coaching staff that prepares them for the next opponent. Someone that has been there and done that. Someone they will listen to. I don’t blame the players for being confused. I know I am.
But who would fit coaching Portland better than Nate does?
Suppose a big-time coach on the level of Doc Rivers/Stan Van Gundy/Phil Jackson comes in and completely shakes things up exactly the way we DON’T want to see? Oden not getting the bulk of the offense, the defense not moving smoothly, or the worst—Blake getting more minutes! (DUN DUN DUNNNN >.>)
Then we’ll all be baying to have Sarge back..
by rise_stand_resist on Nov 29, 2009 10:07 AM PST up reply actions
ADDENDUM: I don't think Nate is the problem.
All this butting of the heads needs to stop. Roy needs to be the ambassador of the players and tell Nate what they find wrong with the system and collaborate to fix it. Find the guys that win the most games and go with them. At this point I don’t care if Cunningham or Blake or whoever gets minutes—just put 5 guys on the floor that will win the damn game.
by rise_stand_resist on Nov 29, 2009 10:10 AM PST up reply actions
that's what i want
just put 5 guys on the floor that will win the damn game
Elizabeth had a partner and he had a rap from the cops, Him and Lenny Suckerpunch were just out Tooling around
by Lizzy Lowblow on Nov 29, 2009 10:16 AM PST up reply actions
This is too early to know but
what about Terry? Porter is already within our organization and knows how to balance a talented backcourt (Clyde/Porter and Roy/Miller) granted, he waa better shooter than Miller is but Roy is a better shooter than Clyde was. He also knows how to institute a defense and really would have been more successful with Suns had they bought in to his system.
porter is an absolutely awful coach
we would go straight into the tank with him in charge. he’s been horrible everywhere he went. talk about not understanding your own talent. he ran the suns straight into irrelevance.
as soon as porter was gone the team was a playoff team; they just made the move too late.
Questions about last night's game
Fortunately, I missed the yuckkkk in Utah. Maybe someone who saw the “game” can answer some questions related to a concern of mine lately: player leadership.
During the first quarter . . .
Did any Blazer huddle his teammates together during a game pause to encourage, spur or coordinate?
Did any of the team leaders visibly turn up his defensive intensity as Utah made its run?
Did any of the team leaders appear upset with the sorry performance at the time?
Did any of the team leaders appear to hold a teammate accountable for a lapse?
After the game, is there evidence that any of the team leaders took any responsibility for for the team’s putrid performance?
If there are not “yeses” to most of these questions, are the team leaders really leading?
We can’t figure out when to man up and when to zone up. That’s one of our biggest problems on defense. We’re getting burned by guys with totally open looks. You just can’t win games when Carlos Boozer is shooting the lights out and nobody is putting a hand in his face. Our interior defense looked aweful. We gotta get that under control soon or road trips in December are going to be really painful.
You know who I miss? Heal well sir. We need you.
"The team and the city are intertwined, and if one side isn't holding up that bargain, it's even more painful than usual. Anyway, I couldn't be happier that I got a taste of it. Great NBA city."
-- Bill Simmons
enchantments!!!
"Oden is a man among cub scouts."
by Tyrusmancrush on Nov 23, 2009 9:08 PM PST
by Sabonis4Ever on Nov 29, 2009 2:15 PM PST up reply actions
Good read Dave - as always
This is not time to panic and not time to make big changes. All teams have slumps and we are still young and still finding our path.
Two major points seem minimized:
1. These guys are playing tired. Likely few of them have ever played this many games in this short a time period. A few days rest and a couple games at home to find their rhythm and they will bounce back and be active again. They have been ridden hard and need some time to recover. This was Brandon’s primary message post Utah game and it fits the observations.
2. Andre Miller is hurt. He may or not be the guy who can carry the team either is the 1st unit or 2nd unit but the player I saw these past two games could not move as he could early in the season. He has painful sprains on both ankles. Nate is allowing him to keep his streak alive but sparing him while he heals. These other factors may be problems but perhaps not once he is back and healthy again.
"Either way we have two phenomenal units. I'm excited to play with either one." - Martell Webster
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