19. Thin Air: The View from Utah
by timbo on Nov 29, 2009 12:53 PM PST
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It's about time to wrap up my little blabber-a-thon about Blazer Fans and Laker Fans and how and why they are different.
There is one tender little topic that I've dodged thus far. I'll invest a small pile consonants and vowels on that before we put the turkey in the fridge. I speak, of course, of the "entitlement mentality" exhibited by a great number of Laker fans — not just the dumb Laker fans, of which there are inevitably many — but also the perceptive and intelligent and well-balanced Laker fans.
Seriously, how can the fanbase of a Western Conference team see their greatest rivals as the Boston Celtics and the Cleveland Cavaliers?
How arrogant is that?!?!
The answer lies in the team's unparalleled post-season success in the 1970s, 1980s, 1990s, and 2000s.
From 1971 until the current date, the Lakers have been in the NBA Finals a total of 15 times — out of 37 possible appearances.
Just think about that... Over 40 percent of the NBA Finals of the last 3 and a half decades have featured the Lakers against an Eastern Conference foe, head to head, fighting it out for all the marbles.
Long-time fans of that team simply have an expectation at they are gonna be in the money when the smoke clears after an 82 game season. And who is gonna stop them from winning it all? Not the chest puffing Portland Trail Blazers or the road wimp Utah Jazz and so on and so forth... No, Laker fans don't just look at the Big Picture — they look at the BIG Big Picture, the NBA Finals.
The Lakers are the Hendrick Motor Sports of the NBA in that they've got winning it all down to a science. And those who follow the team implicitly understand this, they know it, they feel it in their bones — smart Laker fans, dumb Laker fans, all Laker fans.
It may be infuriating, but that's the way it is.
Well, I've been talking about the Lakers' fans for a few days... What better time to sneak in some video of one of those yucky mucky Lakers doing his thing? You might hate the team (that's your right as a Blazermaniac) but if you can put that aside for 10 minutes to watch some peerless athleticism, you'll dig this. Seriously: watch and wonder at Shannon "UPS" Brown going airborne... (What can Brown do for you?)
Part of a well deserved propaganda campaign to get UPS into the NBA Slam Dunk Contest during All-Star Weekend 2010...
Channel Surfing.
Saturday Nov. 28, 2009.
Okay, it's dangerous to compare the excellent performance of Team A, hitting on all cylinders, but playing on 3 days rest, with the lackluster-minus performance of Team B, looking bad playing the tail end of a back-to-back on the road, on one of the toughest floors in the NBA. Still, the contrast is startling and there might be something to learn about why Team A are looking like champions and Team B has its superstar telling the media, "I don't think anyone is really seeing the light at the end of the tunnel right now."
Los Angeles Lakers (11-3) at Golden State Warriors (5-9).
The Lakers creamed the Warriors by over 30 points. Important in this equation was the team's long rest — they hadn't played since their Bench Fail NKVD Arrests game of Tuesday. Bear in mind: over their last 14 games played on 3 days rest, the Lakers were 14-0, winning by an average of 15 points. Deflate the score for that.
Still: going into this season it looked to me and to many of the Blazer faithful that the Western Conference was Lakers #1, Blazers #2. At this juncture only the most giddily intoxicated homer would make such an assertion. What specifically did the Lakers do to crush the same opponent that ran the Blazers off the same floor barely a week earlier?
I watched the first half a second time and the very balanced Golden State announcers, Bob Fitzgerald and Jim Barnett, were happy to help provide some of the answers:
- The Lakers "showed up ready to play." They got after it right the jump, and didn't waste 10 minutes getting into the flow of the game.
- The Lakers had enough time to watch film and gameplan for their opponent. They understood their task at hand and did exactly what they needed to do: keeping Monta Ellis and Stephen Curry out of the lane (think: Tony Parker x 2), and making sure that there was a hand in the face of perimeter bomber Anthony Morrow. They executed. Ron Artest was a physical match for the Warriors' muscular SF, Corey Maggette, playing tough.
- The Lakers played outstanding team defense, sealing the key. (They were aided in this task by several uncalled Defensive 3 Second violations, to be sure.)
- Kobe Bryant was intense on the defensive end, despite scoring just 5 1st Half points he made life hell for Golden State's jumpshooters, doing particularly well in his coverage of their star, Monta Ellis.
- The Lakers thus forced Golden State to a series of perimeter jumpers — which not accidentally did not fall at a "normal" (i.e. uncovered) rate on this night. The Warriors wound up shooting just 39.1%.
- The Lakers made good use of their athletic big men offensively (Gasol and Bynum and Oden). They did not try to match small-for-small against the Warriors. But they played fast.
- The Warriors had to double-team the Lakers' bigs working low on offense, opening up the perimeter for the wings. The Lakers wound up shooting 11-for-22 from the arc, holding the Golden State to 4-for-17.
Seven Lakers in double figures and LO had 8 points.
You put all that stuff together? That's how you blow out a home team... Lakers 130, Warriors 97.
Portland Trail Blazers (12-6) at Utah Jazz (8-7).
Portland? Stuggling. Struggling badly. Bad and struggling badly. One of those...
The story of this game was the 15 point deficit at the end of the 1st Quarter. Forget tired legs in a back-to-back — that is a 4th Quarter phenomenon. The Trailblazers were a team that, once again, came out "pacing themselves" (to use a Royism) and which wound up spending their entire time trying to dig themselves out of a 6-foot deep hole in the sandbox. The faster they shoveled, the faster the sand came rolling back in.
Roy may be paid like, but is not playing like a superstar. I don't know if he spent his whole off-season concentrating on the contract and is consequently suffering on the floor, if the league is figuring out his tricks, or if the guy is on the downside of his career as a middle-20-something. Whatever it is, this observation about him is true: Defense very bad, Excuse-Making world class.
Andre Miller logged just 6 minutes and 18 seconds — Rex minutes. He was 0-for-4 from the field with 2 assists and 2 turnovers in that interval.
The Rex had Andre Miller minutes, all of them, playing 21:32. He had 14 points on 3-for-7 shooting and 3 assists in that interval, turning the ball over zero times. Nate is starting to understand that Jerryd Bayless can play in this league, but he's taking the pound of flesh out of the wrong Point Guard's hiney.
Speaking of whom: Binkie Blake scored 6 points with 4 assists and a turnover in almost identical minutes as those of The Rex. He was Minus-22 for the night, Rex was Plus-6. You do the math.
I'm not sure what to say other than it all starts with defense and the Blazers don't seem to be able to play any. The Jazz were over 60% shooting, and you don't need any pace-adjusted so-called "advanced stats" to know that's gonna be trouble. And it was. Jazz 108, Blazers 92.
Now, wanna see what a blowout looks like in graphic form? Please do click this link for the Popcorn Machine GAME FLOW SUMMARY, if you'd be so kind...
Observation 1: Blazers opened on the butt-kicked side of a 22-7 run. Not as bad as their 31-2 catastrophe against Memphis, but the same basic idea. Martell Webster was 2-for-4, nobody else could hit a shot. Nate pulled Marty.
Observation 2: A wire to wire thumping, peaking at a deficit of 27 points early in the 4th Quarter. Binky and Brandon got pulled. The team promptly went on an 8-0 run. Coincidence?
Observation 3: Oden was Minus-2 during his Typical, Normal, Anticipated, Expected 25 minutes. Pryz was Minus-17 in a little over 18 minutes of action. I ask you again: Coincidence?
There's plenty enough blame to go around in a game like this. Fortunately, the Blazers have a couple days to catch their breath before facing Miami at home on Tuesday. Let's hope Nate gets the malaise figured out by then.
Time for something happy to break up the bleakness, eh?
Well, THE GREATEST THING IN THE WORLD is still on hiatus for the long weekend so it's time for more filler fodder. I'm a Hunter Thompson fan and a bit of an Abbie Hoffman disciple and can really appreciate the delicious weirdness of absurdist political humor bumping and grinding with America's absurd political reality. Early in 2008 Jesse Broyles and Dunlap of Red State Update went on location in Las Vegas to visit one of the early Democratic Party Presidential debates. Poor Dunlap has problems finding anyone to go visit a stripper bar with him... The bit with Dunlap hitting on Dennis Kucinich's wife still makes me giggle. (Contains one NSW word in the last 15 seconds of the video.)
And now, the real point of this always messy dung heap of a column, quips and snips from the bloggers and journalists of Jazzland:
(1)
Game 16: Blazers @ Jazz (pregame)
by UtesFan89, True Blue Jazz (Bloguin)
* * *
The Blazers spent this off-season chasing players like Paul Millsap, Hedo Turkoglu, etc... and ended up with Andre Miller.Nothing against Miller, but he's not the same caliber guy. And (like 'Sap would've) Miller has been coming off of the bench.
They have a strong top-4 (Roy, Aldridge, Oden, Webster) and a PG-duo that occasionally seems to be hit or miss. * * *
(2)
by Ross Siler, Salt Lake Tribune
According to Jazz coach Jerry Sloan, John Stockton threw exactly one between-the-legs pass in his 18-year career. You can only imagine Sloan's reaction when Deron Williams flipped one to Wesley Matthews for a three-pointer only 2:19 into Saturday's game.
Even that early, though, the Jazz probably could tell they were in for an easy night against the Portland Trail Blazers. They started fast and finished strong, even down to just eight players in the end, taking a 108-92 victory before 18,051 at EnergySolutions Arena.
The Jazz hit their first eight shots and finished at 60.6 percent with 36 assists for the night. It was the second consecutive game in which they shot better than 60 percent, something that last happened more than 14 years ago, Jan. 30 and Feb. 1, 1995.
"We're executing great right now," said Williams, who totaled 25 points and 15 assists. "It's fun to be a part of. We share the ball like this, we execute, it's a lot more fun than going one-on-one and being selfish." * * *
(3)
Banged up Jazz get best of Blazers
by Tim Buckley, Deseret News
* * *
Utah thumped the Portland Trail Blazers 108-92 Saturday night at EnergySolutions Arena, getting a 26-point, 12-rebound double-double from power forward Carlos Boozer and a 24-point, 15-assist double from point guard Deron Williams.The 9-7 Jazz's second straight win and fifth in their last six outings came, however, with a cost.
Their bench took a beating.
Backup small forward Andrei Kirilenko and backup power forward Paul Millsap, both rotation regulars and key contributors, exited with injuries in the first half.
Neither Kirilenko, who strained his back, nor Millsap, who bumped his left knee, is expected to be out more than a few days. * * *
(4)
Sharing is Key in the Team's Hot Shooting
by Loren Jorgensen, Deseret News
* * *
So, what's the secret of Utah's recent success? According to Jazz coach Jerry Sloan, it's been a trait we were all supposed to learn in kindergarten — sharing."We really passed the basketball," Sloan said. "We had 36 assists (on 43 field goals). When you pass the ball and share with each other, it makes the game a lot easier to play." * * *
"We played great," said [Power Forward Carlos] Boozer, who finished with a game-high 26 points on 11-of-16 shooting from the field. "We shot 60 percent from the floor again, which is great for us. We moved the ball and shared the ball and took good shots." * * *
(5)
posted by "Clarkpojo" to SLC Dunk (SBN) game thread
And as far as Carlos Boozer goes, I have softened my stance a little.
And I figured out what player he is like and that is Lamar Odom. When Odom was called upon to be a top 2 guy for the Lakers, he could only do it on occasion and it drove the Laker fans wild. He showed glimpses of greatness and then played inconsistently and drove Laker fans mad. So I am fine with having Carlos Boozer on the team as long as the team doesn't try to make him a "go to guy" or even a 2nd option.
Add a go to scorer to the team with Boozer and Williams and you may be onto something. Anyways, I just think Boozer and Odom are really alike. Good players who need to be surrounded by two better players to succeed.
(6)
posted by "Bigdog's Shades" to SLC Dunk (SBN) game thread
So what's the real question here?
1) When did we get so good?
or
2) When did the Blazers get so bad?
(7)
posted by "Juan B" to SLC Dunk (SBN) game thread
Is it just me, or is Oden looking younger?
Looks like he's in his mid-40's.
(8)
Boozer Eyes Another Team: Forward says he's open to USA Basketball return.
by Ross Siler, Salt Lake Tribune Jazz Notes
With USA Basketball chairman Jerry Colangelo soon to announce a 25-player pool from which the 2010 national team will be selected, Carlos Boozer hasn't ruled out the possibility of returning for next summer's FIBA world championships in Turkey.
"I told them if they needed me, I'd be there," Boozer said Saturday. "If not, I'll enjoy my summer. But I told them I'd be honored to wear USA again, so it's up to them." * * *
(9)
posted by "FJS" to Real GM Utah Jazz message board
It's really good for us a win like that.
We have something to build.
That arena have to be the most difficult arena to get a win for any team.
The Bottom Line:
1. The worm has turned. Now it's time for you Blazers to figure out what caused the train to go off the tracks.
2. Hmm, maybe that Boozer guy can play after all.
3. An excellent win. Playoffs, here we come!
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I can completely buy in into that campaign.
I’ve watched Brown since his MSU days and always left impressed.
by TappedPotential on Nov 29, 2009 4:09 PM PST reply actions
Your posts are a good read, but why rub it in?
What’s the point? You’ve laid out precisely the reasons, in so many words, why Blazer fans have an inferiority complex. Our team either sucks or has a lot of potential and disappoints each and every year. They get injuries, have chemistry issues, draft the wrong guy, or just plain aren’t good enough to get over the top.
For said reasons, they consistently fail to get to the same level as the vaunted LA Lakers and therefore are not considered worthy of a rivalry. Our marketing department is comprised of a bunch of lily white dorks who, to paraphrase Bill Simmons, cracker up the Rose Garden experience to the point that one would think that hip hop never existed. The city is a provincial, demographic napkin (unused). It’s the only game in town, so the players exist in a fishbowl-like environment with moralists who would make the Pope blush scrutinizing their every comment. Combine this with the fact that the weather sucks and it’s geographically situated to be as far away from other NBA cities as any place in the league, and you have a recipe for almost never getting the players necessary for the eminent Lakers to take seriously. In contrast, everybody knows how great the Lakers are, so the best coaches and players will take less money to go there. Sometimes even a GM will become so enamored with the Lakers that he’ll hand over a perennial All-Star in exchange for a 3rd string point guard and one of the most spectacular first round busts in recent memory.
We get it. Go Lakers, I guess.
Keep your expectations low and you won't be disappointed.
While I don't necessarily agree with all that is written above...
Some food for thought:
Lakers payroll:
$91,377,313
Blazers payroll:
$56,713,033
I understand that they have a bunch of young players that they will have to pay a whole bunch to but the parity is ridiculous. They always pay luxury tax up the yinger but they have plenty of championships to show it. However, I will always hate the Lakers no matter what.
I just hope the two days off let the guys think about how the rest of the season is going to go. Go Blazers!
"Is RLEC a real person" -My beloved wife
by Ireallyliketheblazers on Nov 29, 2009 9:31 PM PST up reply actions
Absolutely not.
I was merely showing the disparity between the two teams. The LA Lakers pay the premium to win titles. Same goes for the Yankees. Paying an excess of money to premium players pays off. Let’s be honest, they have one mega-star, two all-stars, one budding star, and a savvy veteran in their starting lineup.
I have and will always hate the Lakers no matter what. I will always root for the other team and will cheer when they don’t win. The Celtics could have a higher payroll than the Lakers and I will STILL hate them.
"Is RLEC a real person" -My beloved wife
by Ireallyliketheblazers on Nov 30, 2009 10:39 AM PST up reply actions
So, you will root against the Lakers because of the disparity between the two teams’ payrolls, but if the Celtics’ payroll is higher you’d still root against the Lakers? What you mention about the Lakers this year could also have been said about the 2008 Celtics, right down to the mega-star, two all-stars, one budding star, and savvy veterans.
You’re right when you say the Lakers (as well as other Champions) pay the premium to win. But as you see teams like the Knicks and the Wizards, spending more on the likes of Darius Miles will not guarantee championships.
Hmmm....
Exactly, but the Celtics are not a rival of the Blazers like the Lakers are (or at least I think so, Lakers fans may disagree of the rivalry). The Celtics are using the exact same method that the Lakers employ almost every year.
You keep asking me questions based on one assumption. Payroll. I will just clear everything up and mention that I simply do NOT like the Lakers as an organization. They are arrogant, cocky, and the same goes for their fans (many of them bandwagoners). This is my personal preference and no amount of finagling the stats will sway me otherwise.
The difference between the Celtics and Lakers is that these teams pay for proven talent. Giving Eddy Curry a monster salary based on unearned potential is just disastrous (see: Isiah Thomas’ tenure). Same as the Wizards. Huge contracts given to injury prone guys who had one big season is fool-hardy. The Wizards and Knicks haven’t been the same since! Giving guys like Kobe, Gasol, Fisher, Bynum, and Odom larger contract makes sense because they are proven winners.
I just want to make it to a single game this season...:( Sucks being 5 hours away from the city you love.
by Ireallyliketheblazers on Nov 30, 2009 1:19 PM PST up reply actions
My point was not to try and sway you or John Hollinger you to become a Laker fan, that’s impossible (see below). I asked the question based on the fact that you claim it is ridiculous that one team pays a lot more money for young players than another. I was just curious as to why all the sports hate (that is the topic of this post right?), because to me the payroll reason hardly made sense.
Also, the Lakers just paid Bynum based on only half of a big season, and it’s not like he’s that durable of a player, either. Some teams just get lucky, I guess.
True. But didn't Artest and Odom take less $ to play for them this year?
Odom had offers for more compensation this offseason, no?
Keep your expectations low and you won't be disappointed.
Good bye.
After the first few paragraphs I stopped reading. You can go back to posting at silver screen and roll. Laker fan.
I don't see anywhere in the site rules that you have to be a Blazer fan and only a Blazer fan in order to post here.
'Cuse 88-Cornell 73. My Big Red failed to beat the spread by 2 points. Hence the new avatar.
Oh I'm plenty familiar with Timbo,
been around here a long time. This irked me:
Over 40 percent of the NBA Finals of the last 3 and a half decades have featured the Lakers against an Eastern Conference foe,
Know what, I dont give a ____… fill in the blank yourselves. Ya ya ya the Lakers are great, even if we win a bunch of championships with this group of guys the only hope our team has for glory is to be mentioned along with the likes of the Spurs. A noble endeavor to be sure but you can forget about being in the same breath as LA. We are never going to be a market that attracts the best players, or coaches for that matter. Look at all the teams trying to get in on the Lebron sweepstakes, most of them might as well stop dreaming and face reality. The dorky kid only gets the hot chicks in the movies baby. Maybe he gets them later when he is a billionaire but until then, for freakin – get about it. Maybe I am getting a little off track, but back to Timbo…. This post doesn’t deserve even one rec let alone the number that gets this kicked up to the most recommended posts. He can post all he wants here; there should be a limit though. I’ve seen others get their wrists slapped for cluttering up the side bar, why should Timbo be any different.
Call me a conspirosy theorist...
It doesn’t hurt that the Lakers are in the #2 TV market in the nation.
We went like this, he went like that. I say to Hollywood: Where'd he go? Hollywood says: where'd who go?
I love the Lakers, at least they play with passion and urgency
And they have a coach with a clue. If you’re a Blazer fan and you say you don’t wish your team was like the Lakers, you are lying to yourself.
Blazer Fan
Dunno, when things go south you should hear the complaints about PJ's shall we say "ultra-minimalist" coaching style...
If you think Nate is a practitioner of “The Players Need to Figure It Out” as a coaching philosophy? HA!
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
I think Phil finds a way a.) to motivate these guys and b.) to come up with an offense worthy of the 21 century
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on Nov 30, 2009 10:11 AM PST up reply actions
its also pretty key to point out that (a) Kobe Bryant is way better than Brandon Roy, especially on defense
and (b) Pau Gasol is way, way, way, way better than LaMarcus Aldridge. Also, Andrew Bynum is more valuable than Oden, because he is able to stay on the court. Also, Lamar Odom is way, way better than the 4th best player on the Blazers.
The Lakers are an extremely talented team.
'Cuse 88-Cornell 73. My Big Red failed to beat the spread by 2 points. Hence the new avatar.
I was never a Kobe guy, always a Shaq guy...
I’ve finally warmed up to Kobe. He averages close to 5 assists per game for his career and plays some very, very good defense when he needs to. He’s a lot bigger than people might think he is — 6’6" officially and pretty close to that in reality. I still don’t like his stupid fadeaways from a mile away, but this year he’s altered his game and is playing lower and using his size to his advantage.
Laker fans are really stupid in their Kobe worship sometimes, but the dude is good.
The defect of the Lakers is that they are only about 8 guys deep. A big injury or two and they’re in deep trouble, whereas the Blazers have already had a couple injuries and still have more quality players than minutes.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
Same here.
I mean, I still don’t like kobe. But, he wasn’t the bigger jerkoff as I was always led to believe. I can tolerate him these days without throwing up in my mouth.
Not that being a jerkoff is bad, since pretty much all superstars think that way to a degree. I almost think it’s a prerequisite since these guys have to be so hypercompetitive.
Nah
The Lakers are plenty deep….they survived without Gasol…They have Odom who can play just about any position….they have some good shooters at guard who also play hard…They have Walton, who has limited skills but is a very heady team/role player..they are essentially 3 deep at center (counting that weird looking guy that blocks shots and rebounds) Powell does a decent job at power forward…..
…..and you have Jackson…who always seems to get the most out of what talent he has…..I think Nate is way, way, way.way on the other end, if compared …..
"Deeeeee Jaaaaaaaaay Mbennnnnnnngaaaaaaa!"
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
Yup thats him
Didn’t look too bad in preseason and first several games when he got playing time…..good athlete as well……
I agree with you
I still wonder what a coach like Phil could do with this group
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on Nov 30, 2009 1:10 PM PST up reply actions
I'm not a Laker hater.
I don’t use an asterisk when typing their team name. I think Kobe (again no asterisk) is the best player in the NBA. He’s every bit as good or better than Jordan (so are a couple of other former NBA players).
But other than for a particular series, I will never, ever be a Laker fan! Why? Because I resent – as a result of their weather, money, Hollywood hype et cetera – that they have had an obnoxious number of true super stars in their lineups over the years:
Baylor,
West,
Chamberlain,
Jabbar,
Magic,
Shaq,
and now Kobe.
I’d certainly expect them to win with that kind of star power (How many super stars has Boston fielded? I can think of two, Russel and Bird … also possibly Cousy … and I guess now KG, but that’s it).
The Lakers also had George Mikan but that was when the team was in Minneapolis and was actually deserving of the team name “Lakers”. I’ve always thought their name should have been changed to something like the Los Angeles Smog with their move from Minneapolis. Return Lakers to Minnesota where it belongs and hang all the “Laker” championship banners there. The Smog then could start from scratch.
If this Blazer team doesn't light your fire, then your wood is wet!
Kobe is incredible, but he's not as good as LeBron, and nowhere near as good as Jordan.
'Cuse 88-Cornell 73. My Big Red failed to beat the spread by 2 points. Hence the new avatar.
To truly show that one player A is better than player B, he has to win one ring.
Lebron had the personnel to do that last year and he was the marquis player on his squad (obviously). Kobe has done it with two separate teams, the second of which was the clincher for me since they didn’t have a big man who even approached Shaq’s dominance at the time he won his first batch of rings.
I’m not a fan of Kobe but he’s a flat out brilliant player and would probably be an extremely interesting interview if he were allowed to speak candidly about basketball.
Keep your expectations low and you won't be disappointed.
LeBron is better than Kobe right now, but I agree that you can't put his career over Kobe's if he never wins a ring.
'Cuse 88-Cornell 73. My Big Red failed to beat the spread by 2 points. Hence the new avatar.
LeBron had the personnel to that last year? Seriously? He had Anderson Varejao… Zydrunas…. a nice role player in Delonte…. and Mo Williams, who is really not that great before getting open looks from LeBron. He’s clearly not on the level of Pau, Pippen…. heck. he’s not David West.
LeBron’s supporting cast is weaker than that of any superstar that won a title, including Jordan, Bird, Kobe, etc.
i cry for nic
by Cablinasian on Nov 30, 2009 11:40 AM PST up reply actions
yeah, I agree with this. My post above should include the phrase "unless he never plays with a supporting cast like Kobe had with Pau, Odom, Bynum, etc."
'Cuse 88-Cornell 73. My Big Red failed to beat the spread by 2 points. Hence the new avatar.
Yeah, you're probably right. But 66 wins is nothing to sneeze at.
They were the #1 defensive team in the league (wins championships). Their front line was good defensively (why else would Varejao have a job), they had nice role players who could spot up and score, and Z can give you some offense. Before Orlando got the better of them, they were playing the best ball of any team in the league, including the Lakers. They had 3 rotation players who shot 40% from deep (not including Lebron) and 3 other guys averaging double figures, though they were ranked in the middle of the pack offensively. If Lebron made Williams better than he would be on another team, it’s irrelevant because he was better with the Cavs.
Then again, maybe you’re right. The personnel wasn’t as good as the teams that have won it all recently, but they won 66 games and swept their two previous opponents in the playoffs. The whole could have been greater than the sum of its parts, but maybe not.
Keep your expectations low and you won't be disappointed.
66 games mostly coming against the eastern conference.
How many do we win if we were an east coast team last year?
Well Orlando won about 60 and Boston won 62.
Eastern Conference or not, Orlando, Boston, and Cleveland were elite teams. The only teams that were better were the Lakers and arguably the Nugs.
Keep your expectations low and you won't be disappointed.
You have a valid argument in Lebron
but not with Jordan. Jordan was great but the images that permeated/brain-washed young minds like yours during his hey day was the result of tremendous media hype and corporate marketing. It simply became “accepted” to grace him with the greatest ever label.
Kobe is a more talented and a better overall player. Wilt was easily better and so was the Big O. LeBron will likely be.
If this Blazer team doesn't light your fire, then your wood is wet!
How is LeBron comparable?
I was very much aware in my youth and watched Jordan torch the Blazers, among others. Sure, he was hyped by the media but by God did he live up the hype. The man AVERAGED 30 points for his career. I don’t mean to get into this age-old argument as it could potentially go on forever…but in no way should LeBron be considered to be the greatest ever. Not yet.
Success is measured by championships, in which LeBron has none.
I just want to make it to a single game this season...:( Sucks being 5 hours away from the city you love.
by Ireallyliketheblazers on Nov 30, 2009 11:18 AM PST up reply actions
The stats don't agree with you here.
Over their careers, Jordan has Kobe beat in PER (by a lot), TS% , rebound rate, assist rate, steal rate and block rate. He’s also got a lower turnover rate and a higher offensive rating despite a higher usage. Jordan’s also got the better defensive rating. The differences are even bigger in their playoff careers.
Statistically, Jordan’s career surpassed Kobe’s, and its not close. At all.
'Cuse 88-Cornell 73. My Big Red failed to beat the spread by 2 points. Hence the new avatar.
Kobe? Seriously?
permeated/brain-washed young minds
the result of tremendous media hype and corporate marketing
I think you’re confused about which side of the argument these phrases apply to… you heard the guys on TNT celebrate Kobe’s tremendous desire for victory one time too many and went off the deep end.
There is no rational way to support the argument that Kobe has been better than MJ. None.
You’re really going to cherry pick one-game scoring totals? Is that the best you can come up with?
Q: Is Greg favoring his knee?
Frye: He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors.
Whoa Snake.
Wish I had time to duel with you but I’ve gotta run. I can’t let the “better defensive rating” statement go without comment though. Defense is where I clearly think Kobe was better. Jordan was an overrated defender. For the years 1996 through 1998 there is no way he should have been named to the all defensive team (hype again).
Then I’d like to address the 81 point game Kobe had, his 4 – 50 point games in a row, the 10 – 50 point games in one season (ouch, he scored 65 against Portland) and that career wise Kobe was a much better 3 point shooter than Jordan.
I realize most rate Jordan over Kobe. Although Kobe isn’t done yet, the stats mostly substantiate that assessment. But Jordan the best ever …. no way! Maybe the 4th or 5th best ever.
If this Blazer team doesn't light your fire, then your wood is wet!
Great work timbo
These posts are fantastic. Agree with virtually everything you said about Portland. More B-Rex, less Blake. Less excuses and more responsibility and heart out of B Roy and LMA. You already got paid. Quit whining about play calling. And Brandon, next summer? Keep the basketball in your hand. And leave the bike in the garage unless you’re riding it to the gym.
And for the love of god, Nate, DO NOT yank Oden with no fouls at the 6 minutes mark in the first just when he starts to rev things up. This is no longer the both-guys-are-equal timeshare. Przy is a solid back up, Greg is a very solid starter. PLAY HIM LIKE ONE.
While I’m raning: no jumpers from Dre with more than 10 seconds on the shot clock, EVER. There’s keeping ‘em honest, and there’s giving possessions away. Dre jumpshooting is the latter.
In closing, I would like to see more DC – more minutes and more shots. Nate’s always yapping about energy – time for him to put his minutes where his mouth is.
Q: Is Greg favoring his knee?
Frye: He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors.
by KP Corleone on Nov 30, 2009 3:50 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Timbo! I love the way you have of expressing things...
Observation 1: Blazers opened on the butt-kicked side of a 22-7 run. Not as bad as their 31-2 catastrophe against Memphis, but the same basic idea. Martell Webster was 2-for-4, nobody else could hit a shot. Nate pulled Marty.
Observation 2: A wire to wire thumping, peaking at a deficit of 27 points early in the 4th Quarter. Binky and Brandon got pulled. The team promptly went on an 8-0 run. Coincidence?
Observation 3: Oden was Minus-2 during his Typical, Normal, Anticipated, Expected 25 minutes. Pryz was Minus-17 in a little over 18 minutes of action. I ask you again: Coincidence?
There’s plenty enough blame to go around in a game like this. Fortunately, the Blazers have a couple days to catch their breath before facing Miami at home on Tuesday. Let’s hope Nate gets the malaise figured out by then.
I just hope that that Nate can pull his head out of you know where…
Blazer's Edge Ambassador to The Dream Shake Blog
LMA Rocks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I <3 LMA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LMA - Putting the POWER in POWER FORWARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The concussion must have jarred him into "Destroy All Opposition Terminator Mode!" - BlazersOrBust
35:32 Mins, 10-16 FGs, 1-1 3s, 3-3 FTs, +16, 3 Off, 13 Rebs, 3 Ast, 1 Blks, 24 Points!!!! LMA vs Bulls 11-23-09
26:49 Mins, 7-8 FGs, 10-12 FTs, +7, 6 Off, 12 Rebs, 1 Ast, 2 Blks, 24 Points!!!! ODEN vs Bulls 11-23-09
THE TWIN TOWERS RULE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
that we are even debating jordan vs. kobe...
is stupid. there is no comparison. kobe is great. and still… jordan is twenty levels above him. he was so insanely good, it’s not even fair. and kobe cries himself to sleep at night with that knowledge. of course, then he remembers to call up lebron and rub in the fact that he just won another ring… this time as the best player on his team.
by Fantastic Red Turtle on Nov 30, 2009 10:26 PM PST reply actions
EPIC Fail, timbo!
really, I;m the first one to read this?
The Lakers made good use of their athletic big men offensively (Gasol and Bynum and Oden).
Sorry timbo, we’re not Memphis, The only way you’ll be able to talk about Gasol and Bynum joining Greg is if Marc and Will come to Portland…
Mike Rice is rubbing off on me.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
are you saying
We are not in the same league as the Lakers?…..If so, I think including these teams should be considered, as well ………………..Boston, Cleveland, San Antone, Orlando, Denver, Utah, Atlanta,Houston (with Yao),Dallas, Phoenix…….These are all teams that the Blazer’s (with an occasional exception or 2) will generally, lose to in a playoff series…..And the Blazer’s have not moved forward (as yet) to give any credibility that they could challenge these teams……..it’s still a struggle to beat average teams like Toronto, Miami, Detroit, 76ers, Memphis, Bucks, Thunder, Clippers, Golden State, Wizards……
Yup you could argue against any particular team, but the bottom line is what it is
The Blazers, simply, are just not as good as projected and have lost ground on several teams…..This is, so far, fact until proven otherwise…..I think most have expected much more…so are still mired in optimism……For me, my expectations have always been set at a lower level (based on my humble opinion of their play as a team), so I don’t get blinded by flashes of brilliance …….These flashes develop when you occasionally see what could be, but never consistintly burn too steady….
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