The Roy/Miller thing. An Alternate theory.
This whole Blake vs Roy vs Miller vs Nate thing...
... is getting a bit annoying, and a bit difficult to figure out.
What we know is:
* B-Roy had a decent playoff series against Houston, and some tough D. Much of the rest of the team stank. Blazers flaws as a jumpshooting team were exposed. Many thought that the lack of a creative backcourt player besides Roy, one who the opposing D had to respect, was The Issue.
* Roy signed a big max contract; few dispute that he earned it.
* After a few false starts, KP signed a prize free agent, one Andre Miller--a guy who is generally favorably regarded in the NBA, and whose prior team (the Sixers) was one of the few to record a sweep against the Blazers last year.
* This signing came after Nate and Andre fell in love over Italian food, discussing hoops tactics. :)
* Despite the initial love affair, the team struggled in pre-season... and despite the fact that the incumbent PG has not played well for much of the year, Steve Blake continues to start and Miller comes off the bench. The explanation from the coach is unit chemistry--Blake plays better with Roy.
* Aforementioned Miller plays well with the interior guys, and with the second unit players, many of whom are good spot-up shooters (or were, until Trout and Batum got hurt).
* Despite Blake struggling, he continues to start.
* Roy has struggled a bit himself--his shot is off, his ballhandling is problematic, and the layups he used to make over the D are getting blocked more.
* A few other distractions--"anthem-gate"--have occurred. Normally something that would be ignored, but there seems to be an issue.
* Nobody has come out and pointed any specific fingers at anybody. Yet a lot of people assume that there is rotten locker room chemistry.
Obviously, something is missing here. The most popular explanation, among a certain segemnt of the fanbase seems to be blaming Brandon. He's selfish, a ballhog. He's got his big contract and now no longer gives a rip. He doesn't like the newcomer, and the reason Miller isn't starting despite outplaying Blake on most nights, is because of Roy's interference--Roy wants to play with Blake so that's who starts. Roy and McMillan have thrown Andre Miller, as Dwight Jaynes put it, under the bus.
But something about that just doesn't make sense.
What if the problem--is Miller?
I'm not saying it is, or it isn't. I don't know. But it seems like the relationship between Nate and Andre went south. Nate did himself no favors when he teed off on a spiel about how his feelings were hurt as a player when he got benched for Gary Payton. But even Nate was smart enough to realize that he got benched for a guy who will be in Springfield in a few years, and as coach you shouldn't let that sort of thing bother you. Blake's a big boy, whose been there before--he can take it.
But what if it's something else? The dude has been traded for Darius Miles, and later for Allen Iverson. You think that he would be an ideal guy to pair with Carmelo Anthony and Marcus Camby--but Denver didn't get too far with him, and took a flyer on Iverson. (Ironically, the backup who made Miller expendable was Steve Blake...) Miller thrived for a while in Philly, where he and the other Andre made a fearsome backcourt tandem, but Philly didn't seem to be in a big hurry to re-sign him, and he never seemed to work well with Elton Brand.
And now he's--allegedly--having issues with Brandon Roy, who has long been regarded as an excellent teammate on a team which has enjoyed excellent chemistry.
Here's an alternate theory--one which I can't prove, but which isn't any less plausible than the "Roy is now Iverson" theories that are abounding:
What if Miller... is an assist hog? An assist hog, of course, is a guy who focuses on collecting assists like traditional ballhogs focus on scoring. High assist numbers don't imply an assist hog (Steve Nash is not one, nor is CP3, nor is Chauncey or Jameer or Calderon or Parker or any of the other all-star caliber PGs in the league). Assist hogs are guys who love to throw highlight-film lobs to cutters, to dish-and-kick to open shooters, who love to set up teammates to score--provided they get an assist.
What do assist hogs NOT like?
Dominant wing scorers who break down the defense on their own.
Post up players who dribble and/or pivot a few times before launching a shot.
What if the issue with Brandon and Andre is that Andre, for whatever reason, thinks that passing the ball to the wings and running the offense through them, is the Wrong Way to Play? What if the issue isn't Brandon being hoggy, but Andre?
There are quite a few fans who seem to have taken the position that basketball teams where someone other than the PG dominates the ball, are living in a state of mortal sin--which seems to be why much of the blowback from the team's lackluster play seems to be falling on the established All-Star, not the new guy who is now on his fifth NBA team. But the Miller-as-assist-hog-theory would explain a few other things:
* Why Cleveland, and especially Denver, were happy to get rid of him, despite having a roster compliment (in Denver) that just SCREAMED for an established and talented PG.
* Why the relationship with Nate has soured. If there's one thing that Nate cannot stand, it's an assist hog--he's already run two of them (Mr. Telfair and Senor Rodriguez) out of town. Miller is far better then either of those two hotdogs, but what if the same principle is at work--Miller would rather be cute and creative, then just get the damn ball to the guy(s) who can score on anyone.
* Miller has had over his career, a bit of a reputation as a locker room disruptor. He ain't no Z-bo or Stephon Marbury, of course--but not all locker-room cancers are ballhogs. Who here remembers one Jeff McInnis?
I want to repeat, before I head off to bed, that I'm not sure I buy this theory myself. I'd like to prefer that what's going on is simply the team has yet to mesh--both Brandon and Miller avoided off-season hoops while contracts were being negotiated, and the late signing of both deals (and a few key injuries) have prevented the team from gelling. I hope that's the case.
But seeing as I still have a gigantic man-crush on B-Roy, and Miller has had these issues follow him before, and the Blazers have had great chemistry ever since Zach left town--it seems that a theory other than the whole "Roy's turned into Steve Francis" BS that seems to have infected this place, needs to be articulated.
The flames may now commence. :)
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i think it is mcmillan
he is great with young players learning the pro game, lacks imagination with more experienced guys though. mcmillan is a team builder for sure, is he the guy for the next step though. he seems to rigid to me personally.
"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man
All i can say is
something is rotten in Denmark. I dont know what—whether its Roy, Miller or Blake or even Nate. Whether its who starts, chemistry, how minutes get divided up, substitutions, firings, trades, injuries, gel time, energy, effort, who plays or got played, turnovers, per, points in the paint, GREG ODEN!, defense, offense, lack there of, over thinking, cold streaks, GOD, rebounds, assists, good coaching, bad coaching, the shoes, the weather, the swag, the swagger, the hunger, the drive, the fuel, the fire, the egos, the offseason, the preseason, the regular season, the big time contracts, the new players, the pressure…..deep breath!!!
I dont know what it is. Our record is decent, but it should be better. We have a super easy early schedule. Most teams we face have had losing records. Atlanta, i think, is the best team we faced record wise so far.
We need to find that swagger, that drive—the fuel for the fire—-oops here I go again! We look well fed instead of half starved and hungry for blood. I only say this because we lost to a shabby squad. If we lost and put up a good game to a good team, I wouldnt feel as bad. ANyways, nothing helps a fan feel better than a win in our next game.
GO BLAZERS
The Dude: Hey, careful, man, there's a beverage here!
by cavejunctionblazer on Nov 28, 2009 1:54 AM PST reply actions
blake sucks...end of story
Nate use your best players, how simple is that? how come steve gets that many minutes in a game where he is off!! really off!? Use Miller *****************!!!!
A brief non-sesationalized word from the 'infected'
Ok so Miller’s a putz. Now what? Don’t play him? Don’t expect anyone to adjust their game to him thereby trying to squeeze some value out of him? If anyone on the team could be expected to integrate him wouldn’t it be Roy? Well Roy isn’t doing that. I will never call Roy ‘Steve Francis’. I’m simply pointing out that Roy is failing to integrate the putz. Should Roy be exempt from blame? I guess so. It’s his stellar track record that leads me to expect him to resolve the situation. Again, he’s not doing so. I am disappointed. Unfairly? Sure, I guess Roy is only human. What an awful realization to come to.
My team went to the playoffs in my first year.
oh no---someone was smoking herbs again?
I thought we left the grassy knoll with the jailblazers era!
The Dude: Hey, careful, man, there's a beverage here!
by cavejunctionblazer on Nov 28, 2009 12:54 PM PST up reply actions
That is an interesting theory
While I don’t think it is true to nearly that extent, it would explain quite a bit. While I don’t agree with some of Nate’s coaches decisions and would Steve Blake and even Brandon Roy to tweak their games in certain ways, they are all stand-up guys and would do their best make it work.
If this is true to some extent and Nate was benching him for that reason, then there really is no problem. That offense should work great with Rudy, Martell, Cunningham, and Oden when he comes in after his traditional early rest. This also means he is going to work that much harder to prove he deserves the starting spot, then if/when he gets it Nate should keep him working hard by playing Blake extended minutes (might as well give it a reason).
If none of it is true then it works out as well, it just hasn’t clicked yet and this young team is still figuring out its roles.
Plus I might as well add in that this Miller is not the reason for these big let downs, it is the teams. It’s Nate’s for not rotating correctly, getting his guy’s heads into the game, etc etc. Its the support cast for not instilling their training well enough and/or focusing on the right areas, its the players for not following through on it.
I’m tempted to go through each player and explain why they themselves could individually have shaped any of these games, but like I said… its the team that needs to improve collectively. Might as well say it, might be us fans for not believing enough.
Portland could coast along with their superior talent and stay right with us. Now that Portland woke up, the hammer cometh down.
Oh and I voted on you being a putz
Because if the media gets a hold of this and has a field day telling him that he is selfish (his eyes), Miller wouldn’t care less for this team anymore. The mind can be a delicate thing, they might make millions and not technically have to work (to us poor slobs anyway) but being at such a high level, if your mind is in the wrong place it can drastically affect their game.
Portland could coast along with their superior talent and stay right with us. Now that Portland woke up, the hammer cometh down.
by Batumshakalaka on Nov 28, 2009 3:10 AM PST up reply actions
The media is having too much fun
with the “Brandon=putz” theory.
Of course, players shouldn’t care what the heck the media thinks; most of ’em are hacks anyway.
I am Spartacus and I approved this message
by EngineerScotty on Nov 28, 2009 9:35 AM PST up reply actions
From the
way roy’s been playing and his demeanor/shot selection i can infer that he hates playing with miller and feels that he should have never been brought to portland in the first place. I would have to agree with him but i wasnt the only one who was against getting miller i can remember a lot of people here didnt want to go after miller. Where did they go? I know about 98% of the people dont agree with me but the miller signing was a disaster waiting to happen and the injuries to batum and outlaw dont help in any fashion.
Drama
Been saying this for a while now. Men look to avoid drama because they have a job to do. Boys look to create drama cause their job is to learn how to become men.
If it wasn’t Andre, it would have been something else. Brandon is what, 24 years old?
Call them growing pains.
"The only 'Advanced Metric' that matters is what you see with your eyes." -Timbo, Nov., 2009.
Wait, this is a joke, right?
Assists and feeding the bigs are a bad thing? Taking it to the hoop and creating uncontested shots as well? This goes against everything I believe as the beautiful way to play the game of basketball.
I also remember AI2 openly pining for Miller’s return to the Sixers and Miller getting warmly greeted by the Nuggets that played with Miller. He’s poison, i tell ya!
by xedubx on Nov 28, 2009 3:50 AM PST reply actions 2 recs
Have you played a point guard in the My Player portion of NBA 2k10?
You play as your player and your player only. Therefore since the other 4 are computers they don’t matter and only your stats are important. So naturally you want the ball in your hands ALL the time. In fact I’ve yelled at my TV for any player dribbling the ball in any way or passing because it ruins my assist. This ruins the flow of the game and destroys any semblance of team play. It merely makes the assist the stat to be grinding.
This of course doesnt mean Miller is anything like that, but that is the idea. It doesnt even have to be obvious, but it can actually hurt the teams offensive flow.
Portland could coast along with their superior talent and stay right with us. Now that Portland woke up, the hammer cometh down.
by Batumshakalaka on Nov 28, 2009 4:00 AM PST up reply actions
roy's a racist AND a commie.
The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out, burns out farms, and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.
Head Czar of Amerika <--- Mortimer said so so there!!!
Not to mention a bounder and a cad.
I am Spartacus and I approved this message
by EngineerScotty on Nov 28, 2009 9:36 AM PST up reply actions
Wait, some revisionist history here
Cleveland and Denver both couldn’t wait to get rid of Miller? Since when?
Both times he was on teams that weren’t really going anywhere in the short term and was traded for a more marketable player (Darius/AI). It’d be just as accurate to say that Detroit “couldn’t wait” to get rid of Chauncey Billups because they traded him for AI. When you’re not in that CP3/Lebron/Wade untradeable category, you’re always at the risk of bouncing around some.
He’s failed in one place, LAC, and he obviously deserves criticism for that, but his teammates have generally loved him everywhere else. Witness Iggy’s reaction when he found out Miller signed here compared to Roy’s reaction when we traded Z-Bo, hardly the same thing. Pinning this entire thing on some imagined view of Andre as a guy who kills the chemistry wherever he goes is a little much.
by Royster on Nov 28, 2009 12:21 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
Just to be clear
I know there were financial concerns in Cleveland, but hardly locker room issues.
But it's not totally out of the question
Chemistry, by all accounts, has been great in the Portland locker room for the past 2-3 years.
Witty Unpredictable Talent and Natural Game
But now someone might cut into Brandon's ball-handling time
so it is suddenly an issue. Sure, it could be something else too, but that seems to be the public face of the issue.
BTW1 – Now that we’ve seen the old-guard line-up (as in guard position) it makes the 3-guard lineup where Roy and Miller had to play together look better, at least from the perspective of the teams success with both Miller and Roy starting.
BTW2 – WTF would be happening if we had signed Turkoglu? He would need the ball too, and on defense we’d have him, Roy and Blake getting lit up (with LA seeming to not care).
put a body on 'em
If I were Oden, I would say, "Don’t you dare pass me that ball—you assist hog." Who is a putz?
Whether your preference is watching or playing, basketball is a TEAM game.
by KINGofMACct on Nov 28, 2009 12:45 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Andre Iguodala definitely wanted Miller to stay in Philly
Here are a couple of Iggy’s tweets shortly after the signing:
“Practice is over and I got the worst news of the day… Dre Miller signed with portland…ruined my day…what the @#!¤?”
2:43 PM Jul 24th from UberTwitter
“I aint gone lie, I’m still a lil bitter over this dre miller situation. I knew he wasn’t comin back, but reality is settin in…”
5:55 PM Jul 26th from UberTwitter
Do you guys really have that much spare time in your days to compose these lengthy dramatic posts?? I understand it’s every sports fan’s prerogative to bitch about players/coaches/chemistry/etc but lots of the stuff on this site is pretty overboard OCD style. Instead of being such handwringing munchkins, why not just sit back and enjoy the games a little more…
and we are
seeing why he wanted miller to stay in philly now. The sixers even went so far as to benching iggy this season. Iggy is not a playmaker like roy and its hurting the sixers. They’re even considering bringing back AI to philly now. Iggy and roy are completely different players. One needs a point like andre the other does not.
with as much talent as either one of them have, .........no scratch that...
with as much talent as BOTH of them have, it’s not about NEED it’s about sucking it up and getting it done.
this is like having 2 master chefs working with A box of cake mix with crystal clear instructions and them skrewing it up beyond repair.
sort of.
The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out, burns out farms, and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.
Head Czar of Amerika <--- Mortimer said so so there!!!
Master chefs don't use cake mix
If they did, they’d get the same lousy cake that you or I get when you follow the recipe on the box.
I am Spartacus and I approved this message
by EngineerScotty on Nov 28, 2009 1:54 PM PST up reply actions
ha ha ha....
toooo true,
Lets say they HAD to use it though….. Iron Chef style… vs. me and my kid…
only brandon and andre complete the contest with a pile of mush….
The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out, burns out farms, and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.
Head Czar of Amerika <--- Mortimer said so so there!!!
alrighty then!
You’ve convinced me, let’s just stick with Blakey for the rest of the season and see how that goes…
ha ha ha .... what a riot
you got any idea how many more
lengthy dramatic posts
that would spawn…. oh my.
The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out, burns out farms, and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.
Head Czar of Amerika <--- Mortimer said so so there!!!
Lengthy dramatic posts
are a specialty here.
I am Spartacus and I approved this message
by EngineerScotty on Nov 28, 2009 2:21 PM PST up reply actions
nice post.
I think you are on the right track.
I just submitted a fanpost a minute ago that shows Brandon’s stats are dramatically different than last years – he is being assisted a LOT more, but his production is down.
Well done but there other factors now added - Andre is injured & the team cannot shoot
Tonight he played only 6 minutes against Utah. He is not able to defend or to drive these last few games.
But another factor is that the team is not hitting the open outside shots allowing teams to pack the middle and take away both Andre and Brandon’s drives. Brandon can shoot without the drives. Andre is not able to do so. These additional factors have made analysis of Andre’s value to the team harder and more time is needed to recover from both
Of course, this has nothing to do with the post as I completely agree that Andre does not yet look like a good fit for the Blazers. I do not see this as Brandon’s problem. It may resolve but your hypothesis is certainly possible.
"Either way we have two phenomenal units. I'm excited to play with either one." - Martell Webster
I think it is Nate's fault more than anything
First, I don’t blame it on Miller. If his shortcomings as a player are part of the problem management already knew that could/would be an issue.
I blame it on Nate for seeming to think – and allowing the team and his star (Roy) to think – that we can play the same way we did last year even the some of the pieces are different and it got us knocked out in the first round.
He ought to force the Miller-Roy-Webster-LA-Oden lineup (Miller’s health permitting). This should have been done from day one to get the learning curve started, but instead we’ve spend a quarter of a season creating unrealistic expectations about line-ups, playing time, and player input about who plays with whom. Sometimes you need to take a few steps backward to get on the best path forward and so far I don’t feel like Nate has re-evaluated his strategic course for how the team will play with its personnel (case in point: Greg Oden).
Also, scratch the “white squad” idea and sub players as necessary, not an entire second unit, especially given the current injury situation. Fortunately this seems to be slowly falling by the wayside.
Finally (excuse me for repeating myself) how would all of this be going down with Turkoglu right now? I have a hard time seeing it as a better situation. Still fewer touches for Roy and even more putrid defense than we have shown these last couple of games.
put a body on 'em

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