Media Row Report: Blazers 106 Timberwolves 78
Single file. I said: SINGLE FILE! Yes, this is the line to take credit for the adjustments that led to the Blazers victory -- but please, stop pushing and shoving!!! -- Order. Please, order!!
So you thought the Blazers should ditch the three guard lineup? Good, step right on up here.
You thought Blazers bigs should be allowed three fouls in the first half, like every other team in the league? Yep, get in line.
You wanted to see more young energy -- Jerryd Bayless and/or Dante Cunningham -- provide a spark in the second unit? Congratulations, you're in the right place.
Oh God. Oh... God. You're part of the mass of 100,000 people who thought it was important to return Brandon Roy to his rightful position as two guard? Ok, all of you, you're in. Careful, please, careful.
All together now: pat yourself on the back. Don't sprain anything. Ma$e, what are you doing here? Oh, you'd like to break out an impromptu rendition of "Feel So Good?" Fine. Very well.
Good show, everyone, good show. Take a bow. You deserve it.
It's not everyday and every city where you see the fanbase so accurately predict a team's necessary adjustments after a loss and have them play out almost exactly as planned the very next day. This is cause for celebration.
Seriously, though, it's always nice to know that the coaching staff and the fanbase are seeing the same things and it's doubly nice to see the coaching staff exhibit flexibility and sound judgement in pulling the trigger. Some of these issues might have seemed like easy decisions but they are more complicated than you might expect given that they do involve real people, real dollars (millions of them) and real egos (very, very real egos). The important takeaway from tonight's game: adjustments were made, normalcy was re-established and life goes on in a much happier direction.
Tonight, Nate McMillan returned to his original starting lineup -- Blake, Roy, Webster, Aldridge, Oden -- and returned both Brandon Roy and Steve Blake to their respective comfort zones. While some might hold out hope that Andre Miller will find himself in that starting point guard spot, that's a discussion for a later date. No one can argue with the results that Blake and Roy provided tonight: Blake was 4 of 6 from distance with 9 assists, Roy with 18 points and 5 assists, the players combined for just two turnovers. The icing on the cake was one of Martell Webster's best games as a pro, his first career double-double (21 points, 13 rebounds), highlighted by a solid 4 of 7 from distance, 3s that helped turn the game from comfortable win to blowout city.
It remains to be seen how Andre Miller will respond to his return to the bench. He managed just 4 points and 4 assists in 20 minutes and gave a laconic post-game interview before exiting the locker room quickly. He said all the right things but didn't look particularly thrilled. Then again, I'm not sure thrilled is part of his vocabulary when it comes to post-game interviews.
Brandon Roy, on the other hand, looked as happy as he did the day he signed his max extension, practically gushing over the return to the original starting lineup. "Of course I like it, I'm back to my natural position," Roy said. He later added, "I wish we would have stuck to it a little longer" earlier this year. Sounds to me like those statements we heard this week about Roy not grasping his role found the right set of ears.
Certainly, it's hard to put any stock into a win over the Timberwolves, a team that fields no more than three quality players, a team that the Blazers out-shot, out-rebounded, out-assisted, out-blocked and out-housed (they took them behind the woodshed). Nevertheless, a resounding win is what we all expected to see, what the team, frankly, needed to deliver. And they did. Mission accomplished, for tonight.
Random Game Notes
- Martell Webster went down hard during the last minute of the game -- a ridiculous scene, really, as he tried to pad his stats with the game well out of hand -- and was having difficulty moving around on the game's final possession. After the game, he asked a member of the Blazers medical staff to join him in a back area of the locker room and seemed to indicate he was in some pain. The team is not scheduled to practice tomorrow and will only go through a light shootaround Monday before Monday night's game against the Bulls. Hopefully it's nothing serious.
- So Bill Laimbeer and Nathan Jawai walk into a bar and... yeah, it's a ridiculous mental image worthy of a punchline. During pregame warmups, the former Bad Boy was putting the pleasant Jawai through his paces, with a focus on footwork, exploding to the basket and some peppy motivational mumbo-jumbo. When Jawai took the ball directly at Greg Oden for his only field goal of the game, the Wolves bench exploded, although Laimbeer just sat smiling. Baby steps, I suppose.
- Jonny Flynn might not have been efficient or all that effective but there is a very short list of players in the league who are more fearless. All these minutes with the ball in his hands reading defenses will surely pay dividends later in his career. He is Wade-esque in his ability to hurdle/vault himself at the rim regardless of the bodies around or in front of him. Blazers Scouting Director Mike Born spoke with Flynn for quite awhile prior to the game. Dare to dream.
- For the record... when Nate McMillan switched to the 3 guard lineup against the San Antonio Spurs, I noted "there's a chance McMillan talks himself into this starting lineup for the next 9 games." He made it 8 games. Remarkable, in hindsight.
- Juwan Howard: 0 points, 6 rebounds, 21 minutes. Is Team Dante ready to rock and roll or what?
Nate's Post-Game Comments
Martell
With that group, that first group, he's a spreader. Brandon and LaMarcus are seeing double teams when they play and you need a guy who can keep that defense honest. And if they don't he has the ability to hurt them with the three point ball. If they play single coverage our guys should be able to take advantage of that. He really helps spreading the floor.
New Lineup
Yeah, I just wanted to get back to that lineup and get Martell in the game, get us some balance. I wanted to try to get Brandon some touches. Get Andre with that second group, running that second team. I thought he did a good job tonight, running some sets with Martell. Bayless was in there for a little bit. Rudy, that group. I think it balances the rotation. Without Travis being in the lineup, we need, I really need Andre to be more of a force with that second group.
Tonight he basically was just quarterbacking. He was running the sets. Looking for Rudy and Martell. We had LaMarcus come back with that group. I want to try to keep a big with them, either Greg or LaMarcus. LaMarcus was the guy who got in foul trouble, ended up playing the fourth quarter. It wasn't bad. I think we can take advantage of Andre posting and running the team, and running some sets for those guys.
Six players in double figures
I mean it's been awhile since we've seen guys make shots. Tonight we were knocking down our shots. Open looks, shots that we've had in other games but tonight we were knocking those shots down. We're very capable of knocking those shots down and we just need to keep taking them.
Wins over bad teams
Those are games you've got to take care of. That's the schedule, you play the schedule. You try to improve every single night. A game is a game -- all of them mean the same, regardless of who you're playing or where you're playing. You try to win those games. I thought tonight we came back after losing that game last night, much better job taking care of the ball, only 10 turnovers tonight.
Stick with this starting lineup going forward?
Yeah, this is where the lineup that we'll go with.
Andre's reaction to not starting?
He was fine with it. I want him, I need him to be aggressive with that group. It's not a demotion or anything like that. I think with that group we can allow him to be aggressive, post up, run the team. We had pretty much all of our weapons in that first group -- now Martell, you're not running plays for him, he's just spreading and playing off of guys, which I think is good for him. This is the way we started. You change that lineup sometimes to get some aggressiveness, to light a fire with a guy and tonight Martell had his eye.
Martell's defense and rebounding
It's very important and he's capable of defending and rebounding. He's a good rebounder and those are things he needs to do at that small forward position.
-- Ben Golliver | (benjamin.golliver@gmail.com) | Twitter
188 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
I liked the 3 guards in order to cut down on opposing guards getting into the paint,
but it really seems like the team has started to get Nate’s rotations and is doing a much better job of both funneling ball handlers and recognizing where the dashes to the paint will be coming from. Oden is killing it defensively. There’s no doubt about it. That helps so much.
And my Miller buzz has kind of worn off a bit. Imagine that, right? In my experience this is generally followed by a headache so I hope the similarities end there.
In the long run I suppose we’re just going to have to get used to this team winning a lot of games under 100…
I'm just not crazy about player nick names...
by Hipster Olympic Team! on Nov 22, 2009 12:09 AM PST reply actions
Opposing guards
They have no problem getting whatever they want from Blake.
There should be zero take aways from this game
Minnesota is a truly horrible team that the Blazers match up well against. They are incapable of running and their offense is just as stagnant as ours. It’s really disturbing to see “adjustments” made during a game that was going to be won no matter what. All this does is lend credence to things that may or may not have made any difference.
The fact is that Blake is still playing far far far too many minutes and Nate (and maybe Brandon?) continue to refuse the inevitable move to get Andre and Rudy Blake’s extra minutes. This team simply can not beat good teams in the playoffs with Blake getting beat off the dribble. More importantly, the good teams have already begun to run a second defender at Roy late in games. Because of the 1-4 iso, he basically can’t do anything. We have to have an outlet to a player that can create. Without Travis, Andre is the only one.
by TPfor3 on Nov 22, 2009 8:06 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
You think Blake gets beat off the dribble...
…and you think Andre Miller is the answer to that????… I’ve read enough of your posts (and your fanpost that you were the main responder to) to know that you are not a Steve Blake fan but please!…
Saying, “the fact is”… doesn’t make your opinion fact. I appreciate your opinion but forgive me if I don’t believe that “this team simply can’t beat good teams in the playoffs” just because you don’t like Steve and you say so.
Before I opened the comments I guessed that within the first 3 posts there would be a Blake basher… SURPRISE… I was right.
As much as you and your kind want to believe it Steve Blake is not the cause of everything that has ever gone wrong in Rip City. Steve is a far superior perimeter defender to Miller and you can use all that “Dre’s an experienced vet and team defender” fluff you want… Andre is NOT the answer to all our problems either.
It is Nate’s job to find an answer to teams double teaming Brandon… and he will. Saying that Steve is at fault for that is as unfounded here as it was in your post. What have you really seen of Andre…the current Andre not the 76ers one… that makes you think he would be a good outlet when Roy is double teamed?..
The 76er Andre is why we signed him
We either have the dumbest front office and coach in the world because we signed an obvious mismatch or Miller has had the biggest single year drop off of the decade. Maybe there’s a third option where Miller is the best thing for the Blazers but we’d rather just spin our wheels with a lineup that might get us to the playoffs but not much further.
He should definitely get a shot to show what he can do
I am fine with Juwan as a veteran presence, but we know what he can (or more aptly, can’t) do at this stage of his career. The Inferno is an active prospect with a nice shot. Against back to the basket/banger types, he could struggle on D, but he works very well on offense with the 5 men we have
"man, steve blake is clutch *dead*" - Ben Golliver on Twitter
by blazeraddict on Nov 22, 2009 12:31 AM PST up reply actions
I don't know if I'll ever like Dante Cunningham
I feel like the father in Walk Hard, why can’t Dante be more like DeJuan Blair? Each time I see Dante, I just think what could have been and it breaks my heart as a Blazers fan.
Martell found hismelf again tonight
Most important part of the game for me.
"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely
by skywaker9 on Nov 22, 2009 12:18 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Oh I hope he really has found his game again.
It’ll make a huge difference to the team. Martell needs to stop being psychologically fragile and really become a pro. A pro doesn’t miss 3 shots and go into a major funk.
Well, we’ll see.
ignacio
Out-housed
Ben, that’s classic.
Blazers win!
by The X-man on Nov 22, 2009 12:20 AM PST via mobile reply actions
"Dare to dream."
You’re drastically overrating Jonny Flynn, Ben.
Dear Paul Allen:
Fire Nate McMillan & hire Jeff Van Gundy.
Sincerely,
AK1984
Waterbug?
"What happened to Bayless anyway? Did he turn into a pumpkin? Most teams don’t just let #11 picks rot." - Xiane
Nah, I save the term waterbug for guys like Patty Mills and J.J. Barea.
To me, I’d classify Jonny Flynn as an undersized dribble-drive point guard who’s inefficient offensively and overmatched defensively. Flynn, in essence, is a young T.J. Ford, so color me unimpressed.
Dear Paul Allen:
Fire Nate McMillan & hire Jeff Van Gundy.
Sincerely,
AK1984
It's neither tired as Nate McMillan continues to surprise nor uncalled for if the man is capable of turning up to games.
#88 > #23 > #25
Updated for latest line-up:
#5 > #2
AK strikes me...
…as a little too righteous in his judgement too give somebody a break.
Disrepectful people say Disrespectful things…
by Ilikeemall on Nov 22, 2009 6:41 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
what a surprise
AK doesn’t like a small, quick, aggressive, scoring pg?!
shocker!
..................... But he does like Kirk Hinrich!
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
Because small, quick, aggressive, scoring point guards are just undersized shooting guards playing out of position.
#88 > #23 > #25
Updated for latest line-up:
#5 > #2
I don't follow college hoops, but since Jonny Flynn went to Niagara U,
which is in my hometown, I have taken a mild interest in his career. Another diminutive NU product comes to mind: Calvin Murphy.
Blake should not try to lob so much
You’re not Andre dude, as much as I like you.
"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely
Yeah, it just makes him look silly.
He should just concentrate on dribbling the ball up the court, hand it over to Brandon, and stand in the corner.
"It's not a demotion or anything like that"
Um…. it’s exactly that.
It’s a slap in the guy’s face. You’re benching him and playing him fewer minutes than an inferior player, because your star SG is afraid of change, even if it could ultimately result in the betterment of the team.
Way to go.
by CleBlazer on Nov 22, 2009 12:38 AM PST reply actions 2 recs
Couldn't have said it better myself.
It makes me sick that Miller went back to the bench over Blake. Yeah, we won. Against the freakin’ Timberwolves. I’d be pissed if I was Miller. How much better can you be than a player, but still get that much lack of respect from the coach.
It seems both Nate and Brandon are set in their thinking on how a pg should play in their starting unit.
Which is fine but I find myself more and more aggrieved that we failed to acquire Kirk Hinrich, who would have brought everything that Blake brings but had the added advantage of being able to defend the best guard on the opposing team and having some competence running a fast break and in pick and rolls. I would have happily paid his contract for the next three years as for this team it would have been worth every penny.
Plus, with Hinrich we also wouldn’t have to give up the joy of having a relatively unathletic point guard who is unable to consistently make layups. Its a winner all round.
"What happened to Bayless anyway? Did he turn into a pumpkin? Most teams don’t just let #11 picks rot." - Xiane
Wudda shudda cudda
I’d settle for Nate figuring out that Webster (or Rudy) can space the floor, Miller should be starting, and Blake should be sitting on the pine.
by upper left corner on Nov 22, 2009 6:33 AM PST up reply actions
Maybe we should have a candlelight vigil...
…and sing Kum-Bah- Yah for poor lil Andre Miller and his hurt feelings… Then burn Roy at the stake for being so mean to one of the top 7 PG’s in history!
C’mon guys…. He’s a big boy now with big boy pants and everything. I think it’s time we recognize that to this point Andre Miller isn’t even the 7th best player on this team. His defense makes Blake look lightning quick and his high risk offense has been about 50/50 hit or miss.
It never ceases to amaze me how things get blown from fantasy to reality in here. Roy innocuously said he was more comfortable with Blake at the beginning of training camp and now every critic-come-lately in this blog has heard Brandon say that he hates playing with Miller and is afraid of change and knows for a fact that Roy is throwing a fit in the locker room.
I find your tone to be consistently problematic.....
….and would suggest that you try making your points without going out of your way to offend people who don’t share your point of view. It makes BE a happier place and increases your credibility.
by upper left corner on Nov 23, 2009 6:24 AM PST up reply actions
I find the tone of BE problematic!..
Here is a partial list of the Fanpost’s currently running on BE…
1) Start Miller and Rudy (which means sit Roy)
2) The Steve Blake Paradox (Another in a long line of Blake Bashing)
3) At What Point do we Realize We’re Being Out Coached…
4) I HATE the way Roy is Playing right now. (sequel to Steve Blake is Dead to Me)
5) Kelly Dwyer Gets it… Why doesn’t Nate.
6) Mr. McMillan Meet Reality.
All of these are basically the same type of post… Negative!
I come into a Media Row Report to escape the negativity and 2 Comments in the Bashing begins…
I submit to you Mr. upper left corner that the general tone of this blog is the problem not the guy like me that misses what it used to be. There is very little fact based discussion left on this blog. It has deteriorated to baseless accusation and finger pointing at the team I love… The same team I so enjoyed coming in here last year to discuss. I’m sure you have read the Fanpost’s I mentioned. They all have the same basic theme…. A negative, haphazard shot at _________(fill in the blank) possibly backed up with selective use of a thin layer of stats but most often supported by comments attributed to the players or coaches themselves that were actually either misquoted from the media or said in here so many times that people have now decided it must be so.
I miss the old BE… The one with intelligent well thought out posts that you could discuss without wading through the Bandwagon Hater types that now rule this blog. The jscots of this world that made this THE BEST NBA blog around are slowly but surely being displaced by guys who after 10-15 games of the season have decided that Brandon Roy should be benched and replaced by Rudy…and guys who end their Post/Rant with “Steve Blake is Dead to Me”.
“upper left corner” you are one of the long timers that made this blog a breath of fresh air last year when I discovered it and I apologize if I offended you… I just find it nearly impossible to listen to the baseless attacks on the Blazers that now pass for Fanpost’s.
I am sure most people’s response to this will be, “Well then stop reading BE” and unfortunately it may lead to that. For me though there is still hope that we can get back some of what was…
GO BLAZERS!!!
by Ilikeemall on Nov 23, 2009 11:12 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I find it puzzling that you complain about negativity while being quite well, er,um.....negative
People love the team and care about the players. When the team does not perform up to expectations, people get concerned. They start looking for explanations and some start trying to place blame. I agree that folks can, and do, overreact frequently. I have been preaching patience with great regularity.
But it is not wrong for fans to make suggestions that they think would allow the team to perform better. Portland is a very deep team. Discussion and disagreement about the rotation and style of play are neither surprising nor wrong. I have posted two Fanposts in the past two weeks. One was about Blake. One was about Nate. Both were critical, but both laid out specific concerns and cited numerous stats to back up those concerns. I tried to avoid name calling and tried to give credit where I believe it belongs.
I am not here to blindly cheer for the team. I am here to enrich my fan experience by deepening my knowledge of the game and to discuss the ins and outs of the teams performance. It is precisely because I think this team has such a great future that my expectations are high. If I see something that I think could be changed to improve the teams performance, I am going to put that suggestion forward.
Tone is important, we all need to watch our tone about individual players and each other. I certainly include myself in that admonition. I suggest that you try to model the sort of behavior you would like to see from other posters. Throwing around terms like “hater” and your rather snarky comment that I responded to above does not seem like it will improve the quality of discourse around here. I get your frustration, but try backing up your point of view with stats and arguments rather than boiling over.
by upper left corner on Nov 24, 2009 8:11 AM PST up reply actions
While I don't find the post you responded to Negative...
…I agree with your premise. I did respond negatively to the avalanche of similiar posts that partially lead to quotes like this from BRoy…
“That’s great,” Roy said. “I’m good with it. I hear everybody is getting mad at me now over this whole Andre thing. I don’t know why. … I never did anything. I’ve never wanted anything but what’s good for the team. It makes me a little sad. But I’m cool.”
I too am here to deepen my knowledge of the game and discuss the team…which has been part of my frustration. It has been difficult to “deepen and discuss” through the deluge of posts that did little to accomplish that for me.
I believe I already have in another post but I would like to again apologize for falling to “the snark” and going on the attack in an effort to defend. I am an emotional fan and while I will never like the “BlakeSucks and he is dead to me” crowd I will do my best to handle them in a way that is appropriate for BE.
Thanks for you input and…
GO BLAZERS!!!
Slap?
This exactly the attitude Nate was preaching against in camp. Leading the 2nd unit could be significantly more important for overall success than being a starter. If your bench punishes the hell out of the other team every time they pull their starters, then they tire down significantly by the 4th quarter by overplaying the first string or get points run up on them. Past that I wouldn’t call Roy’s situation fear, rather he is uncomfortable with the total rearrangement of his game out of position for a “could”. Calm down and leave the man alone unless he’s actually done something to hurt the team.
Down with the Ruskies
So What?
Do you really want the team’s franchise player to adjust his game to a 33 year old point guard, who might not be on the roster after this year? Maybe Roy should adjust his game to fit Juwan Howard’s game while he’s at it.
by tominhawaii on Nov 22, 2009 5:53 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Roy's going to have to make the adjustment sooner or later
To whoever it is. He can’t do it himself. Fact. He can’t do it with Steve Blake starting at PG. Fact.
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on Nov 22, 2009 8:17 AM PST up reply actions
A fact? Really?
How many regular season games has he played with Miller starting and Blake on the bench? Oh yeah, that’s right, ZERO. Being pushed to play out of position by starting both pg’s is what killed his game more than anything. How about we decide what’s fact after actually trying it out once. Miller’s whole career has been about making everyone on the team better, just ask Philly. By the way, Phllly isn’t missing Miller this year are they?
Philly doesn't miss Miller, they just stink
Miller and Roy have played together. If fans are serious about winning a championship, then they don’t want Roy starting with either Blake or Miller.
When Miller's been in the game and Blake on the bench
it hasn’t looked great.
"Woulda, Coulda, Mighta and Shoulda – the Four Horsemen of the Procrastocalypse" - Red-5
This is just silly.
Andre has a skill set that is ultimately more useful to the team’s overall success (and Brandon’s). His age has nothing to do with it. He hasn’t lost a step (unlike Juwan). Would we still say the same thing if it was CP3?
Oh, and to add:
Our franchise player hasn’t adjusted to our center’s developing game either. Rarely do I see Oden do his fingerpoint/acknowledge thing to Brandon. I don’t think it’s wise for Roy to play at the status quo level of last year.
Absolutely ridiculous.
I’m disgusted with the coaching staff at this point.
Good coaches adapt to their personnel. Bad coaches make players fit their system.
There is ZERO rationale for why Dre is not running this show.
We don’t need to beat the T’Wolves. We need to beat Denver, Dallas, Lakers, Cleveland and Boston. Blake won’t help that happen. Really bad move Nate…
Good thing Dre is a pro, but he must be incredible pissed…
agreed
it’s absurd
Roy is coming off poorly here
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on Nov 22, 2009 8:16 AM PST up reply actions
Okay, I'll take credit
I really, REALLY like Martell, and I think the “slump” he was in is because of his role. He’s been jerked around like you said Ben and that’s not good for him. Plus, he’s labeled a three point shooter. He’s not a just a three point shooter—in fact, I feel like that part of his game is overrated. His shot is mechanical and not nearly as pretty as people make it out to be.
But, tonight (as with all his other productive games) he had a different role. Shooting open threes, yes, but also energy, defense, rebounding, athletic high-flying plays—in fact, kind of a Gerald Wallace with a better jumper. That’s what we need from him, not standing in the corner waiting for a three point shot. Give him a good role and he’ll shine.
"I'd like to see Nate McMillan stop treating fouls like they are rollover minutes." - Blazer Guy 11/4/09
Actually
I think it was someone else who said Webster was “jerked around” by Nate, not Ben, but anyway the point stands.
"I'd like to see Nate McMillan stop treating fouls like they are rollover minutes." - Blazer Guy 11/4/09
I think that would be me.
My Fanpost mentioned how little patience and trust Nate has shown in Martell and how that lack of patience was probably hurting his confidence.
by upper left corner on Nov 22, 2009 6:41 AM PST up reply actions
Chicken/Egg
Guy is coming off a one year lay-off, he was bound to be rusty, inconsistent, and pressing.
Still, he has been playing better than Blake and yet Nate’s obsessive reliance on Blake continues…..
by upper left corner on Nov 22, 2009 8:42 AM PST up reply actions
It's not Nate's or Blake's faut that Miller is stinking it up
The stats from yesterday prove that Blake is better with Roy than Miller.
ive been saying it since he was benched in game 6. a lot of us have.
he shot 40% from 3 point land as a starter those first 5 games.
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
Right
I fail to see what Martell did to put him back on the bench. It’s not like he’s Outlaw and continually gets lost out there. Nor is he Sergei Monia and fail to hit a shot. Nor does he sulk or take plays off. I think he deserves the starting spot. It does get dicey when Batum gets back but we’ll deal with that when it happens.
"I'd like to see Nate McMillan stop treating fouls like they are rollover minutes." - Blazer Guy 11/4/09
He's not BRoy's buddy
I fail to see what Martell did to put him back on the bench
and not true
Martell and Roy have known each other for years before the NBA…both being from the Seattle area
"And in the end
The love you take
Is equal to the love you make." -The Beatles
by 92wastheyear on Nov 22, 2009 8:58 PM PST up reply actions
he was jerked around because he was playing extremely poorly
He seems to be better as a starter, but he needs to show he can do it with some consistency.
Chicken/Egg
Anytime a player is put in a situation where he’s doomed to failure, I don’t think it’s fair to criticize his results. Martell’s effort has been there. The results come with being put in a situation to succeed.
I’ve been a big Nate supporter. But the Webster situation has bugged me since he was benched in the Houston game. He responded by playing great individual defense on Durant which shows his commitment. That should have given him some slack but instead he was moved back to the bench.
"I'd like to see Nate McMillan stop treating fouls like they are rollover minutes." - Blazer Guy 11/4/09
I don't know.
I like Webster starting for now, but once Batum gets back, I would reduce his role dramatically. If, at that time, he can’t be productive in limited minutes, he’s not long for the team. Unless of course Nate keeps Batum playing bit minutes, which would annoy me to no end.
there are teams that would love to have Martell that could give him the starting role he seems to need.
i cry for nic
I really like Batum as well
I think that Martell is more well-rounded as a player than Batum at this point though. Batum definitely has more upside. The odd man out might be Webster but I’d hate to see him go. And all it takes is one injury and you wish you have him.
Maybe next year we can convince Rudy he’s a point guard and all our troubles are solved:
PG: Rudy Blake SG: Roy Webster SF: Batum Webster PF: Aldridge Cunningham C: Oden Przybilla
I like that 9 man rotation.
"I'd like to see Nate McMillan stop treating fouls like they are rollover minutes." - Blazer Guy 11/4/09
What is Martell better at? Defensive rebounding and a few threes better per season. Batum’s rookie season was better than Martell’s third season.
I like Marty, but Batum was clearly better last year than Martell has been thus far this year.
i cry for nic
hmm, I don't agree
Martell is (at least currently) a much bigger scoring threat than Batum showed last year. And since we can’t even score big against the Warriors, I want to see a defender who can provide some offense.
How so? Martell has been pretty horrible on offense this year, tonight's game notwithstanding.
Batum as a 20 year old rookie was better than Martell has ever been, at almost everything.
well
in 07-08, Martell averaged 10.7 ppg
In 08-09, Nic averaged 5.4 ppg
This says to me that Martell has been more of an offensive threat than Nic was last season.
28.4 mpg vs. 18.4 mpg
Bad team vs. Good Team. You can’t just compare raw stats like that.
Martell ‘07-’08 and Nic ‘08-’09 were about equally efficient on offense in terms of True Shooting Percentage. Batum had a better PER.
Batum is better in transition, a better offensive rebounder, and just as good a 3 point shooter based on their career numbers.
Jake, give me a break
we discussed this forever ago. Identical TS%, except Webster did it as the 4th leading scorer on the team while Nic did it as the 8th leading scorer on the team.
Not to mention that Webster did it while playing alongside one solid offensive player (2nd year Roy) and one okay offensive player (LA) while Nic got to play alongside a superb offensive player (3rd year Roy) and a slightly better LA. Plus we had Oden last year and were a superb rebounding team as opposed to 2 years ago when we were piss poor at it.
It’s a heckuva a lot easier to be efficient in the situation Nic was last year than in any of Webster’s years. Next you’ll be making the argument that Steve Blake is a better shooter than Kobe.
fair.
Martell’s ‘07-’08 was a more impressive offensive season than Batum’s ‘08-’09, but not by much, and not enough to discount everything else Batum does, especially since Martell ‘09-’10 has been a wildly inconsistent shooter and a poor decision maker.
Webster's labeled a shooter
but I’m going to continue to beat this drum until everyone agrees with me. He’s not a shooter. He’s a well rounded player that blends well with any offense, doesn’t demand the ball, and does what he’s asked to do. Did anyone forsee him becoming a defensive specialist two years ago? He’s molded his game. You don’t ship a guy like that out of town.
"I'd like to see Nate McMillan stop treating fouls like they are rollover minutes." - Blazer Guy 11/4/09
I don't get this
Webster was quite good in four of the first five games, including defense.
He was then horrible after he got benched.
He was not too great in the first half against Minnesota, and then went on a tear.
In the six games he has started, he’s been on the whole very good. Much too good for the way you’ve characterized his year so far.
Off the bench, he’s been poor, granted. But I’m still not persuaded he ever should have been benched. I think it was more effective for a while, but didn’t really help us get ready for the playoffs.
"Woulda, Coulda, Mighta and Shoulda – the Four Horsemen of the Procrastocalypse" - Red-5
Martell took 8.7 shots to Nicolas’ 4.6. Nic was more efficient, shot pretty close to the same from 3, was a better offensive rebounder, and was a bigger threat to drive. He has better handles than Marty does.
i cry for nic
I am not arguing that Batum is a better offensive player, just saying that Marty isn’t a much bigger scoring threat, certainly not big enough to keep Nic off the floor.
i cry for nic
I meant as more of a specific response to
Jake’s contention that he’s just as good a 3 pt shooter, but Webster did draw more FTA’s/minute in his 3rd year than Nic did last year.
Webster isn’t Ray Allen out there, but people see so much more in Nic than was actually there last year. Sure, he has potential and showed flashes, but he was in no way the Boris Diaw/Lamar Odom clone that he seems to get portrayed as often here.
by Royster on Nov 22, 2009 1:55 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
You are right to challenge that point
but rookie Batum shot the 3 as well as rookie Webster, and that’s supposed to be Martell’s big advantage over Nic.
Batum deserves his starting spot back when he’s healthy, unless Martell can show something pretty dramatic between now and then.
You're never comparing
rookie Nic to rookie Webster.
Batum as a 20 year old rookie was better than Martell has ever been, at almost everything
But besides the point, everything about being in a better position to succeed applies double comparing the 2005-2006 Blazers to last year’s. Obviously Martell has to be a lot better than he has been to keep his job, but around this time last year Nic was in the midst of a 6 game stretch where he combined for 3 points on 12 shots.
I personally just want to see all this ridiculous lineup monkeying around end so everyone can settle into a comfort zone.
I stand by that block-quoted statement.
Rookie Batum was better than Martell has ever been at everything except defensive rebounding and 3 point shooting. Even in 3 point shooting, rookie Batum as good as rookie Webster.
I agree with your last point, for sure. We’ll see what Martell can do. He’s had some really good games this year.
actually
Webster plays better post defense and blocks shots better in half court defense. Batum plays excellent defense outside, blocks shots in the transition game, and takes it to the hole better than Webster.
by blacknoiseNW on Nov 22, 2009 11:50 AM PST up reply actions
Rookie Batum should have been as good
as rookie Webster at just about everything.
Nic was older and had played professionally for several years.
Martell had played high school.
"Woulda, Coulda, Mighta and Shoulda – the Four Horsemen of the Procrastocalypse" - Red-5
Actually, you'd have to add drawing fouls there
In every year of his career Webster drew significantly more FTA’s per minute than Nic did last year. His career average is double what Nic’s was last year, and he’s averaging triple this year what Nic did last year.
But you know what?
Martell’s points are still better, even when adjusted for the shots or the minutes. And Martell wasn’t that good in 07-08.
Until he entered his weird funk, Martell looked a LOT better this year than he was in 07-08.
So I think it’s nuts for you both to dismiss the concept that Martell’s offense is better than Nic’s.
they both had similar true shooting percentages, so it’s not like one was scoring night and day better than the other. They were equally efficient, with Martell being slightly more impressive due to taking a little larger offensive role.
I only dismissed the concept that Martell’s offense is much better than Nic’s. Until last night, Marty was hitting the side of the rim. He hasn’t been Ray Allen out there quite yet, though he’s a nice shooter.
i cry for nic
anyway, as someone pointed out above
Batum’s not an option, so I guess we should all hope that Marty’s good and leave it that.
agreed. Marty is a great guy and someone we should all love to have as a Blazer.
We can have both guys in the short-term. Yay us.
i cry for nic
I'm not really talking about Batum vs. Webster
My main beef is benching Webster and not playing him in a role he can succeed in. And my beef is with Nate on this. Plus with the fans who seem to think Webster is just a shooter.
"I'd like to see Nate McMillan stop treating fouls like they are rollover minutes." - Blazer Guy 11/4/09
Yeah, good idea...
Let’s not play a guy whose had a distinguished 10+ year career as an NBA point guard…. Let’s convert another guy away from his normal role….
smh…
Webster was playing fine as a starter. He was jerked around for the 3-guard lineup
by blacknoiseNW on Nov 22, 2009 11:48 AM PST up reply actions
You guys can argue about Nic vs. Marty
all you want. But the fact is Marty is your man this year. Nic probably won’t be back this season. if he does make it back he most likely won’t be in game shape until the season is over.
moot
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
if only it did work
(jk)
"And in the end
The love you take
Is equal to the love you make." -The Beatles
by 92wastheyear on Nov 22, 2009 3:49 PM PST up reply actions
Nothing like a win over the Timberwolves to get that feel-good rhythm back. Hopefully we build on this, one step at a time, start doing the things we really need to do.
Something of note, Flynn… is crazy fast. He is. Quick. Speedy. Stop on a dime and run the other direction. It’s unfortunate he has such horrible teammates, he had some quality passes that could have easily been assists. He had a run early in the third quarter that was sort of like “wow we can’t stop him” and then we did, he started passing out, and his teammates reverted to their usual contested jump shots. The run of triples we had in the third was great fun to watch. Those combined with Flynn slowing down, took this game from a “yea we won” to “EXPLETIVE DELETED YEA! WE BEAT THE EXPLETIVE DELETED OUT OF THOSE GUYS”
Good game.
Bring the bling to Rip City, Natch'
Trade John Canzano!
Thoughts..
- Is it now obvious that we were overworking Roy in that starting lineup at the 3?
- Andre Miller comes off the bench. This game was just confirmation.
- Wow, how about that hard work from Martell? Need to see that effort against teams with physical forwards.
All of this said it was Minnesota and we were at home.
I see Miami on 12/1 as our next good barometer for the team.
Sometimes a player's greatest challenge is coming to grips with his role on the team.
-- Scottie Pippen
Um, you played one of the worst teams in the league
I think few things ‘were confirmations’
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on Nov 22, 2009 8:21 AM PST up reply actions
I like Blake/Roy and Miller/Fernandez
in the backcourt. I also like Martell defending the larger 3s in the league and saving Roy’s energy by not asking him to do that more than 6-8 minutes per game.
I said it last year and I’m still surprised it didn’t happen, but I think there will be a trade at the trade deadline. This year, I think KP is going to make a stab at getting John Wall somehow. – Elgin
Travis Outlaw, the Funnel Cake of the Blazers
One more thing:
Now if Nate would get Miller in the starting lineup, instead of Blake, he’ll have this right.
I don’t think so. Not right now anyway. Brandon honestly just needs the ball more. Miller is a playmaker. Blake is a creator for teammates. I just don’t think Miller meshes well with Roy out there. Personal opinon I know. But I’m on the start Blake bandwagon. Let Andre get out there with Rudy and create havoc.
Sometimes a player's greatest challenge is coming to grips with his role on the team.
-- Scottie Pippen
Brandon needs, Brandon needs, Brandon needs
a bottle of warm milk and a pacifier?
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on Nov 22, 2009 8:22 AM PST up reply actions
If that is what it takes...then yes
The idea that you don’t put your best player in a position to succeed in misguided
"And in the end
The love you take
Is equal to the love you make." -The Beatles
by 92wastheyear on Nov 22, 2009 10:26 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Your best player...
…should be able to adjust…
…should be able to execute a simple curl off a screen to hit an open J…
…should NOT be the coach!
And I’ve got news for you – the most important player on the Blazers future championship team is Greg Oden. BRoy is a very important part of the 3 superstar team that the vast majority of NBA championship teams have… But LMA and Greg have to become the focal point of the offense in order to beat playoff teams…
All you BRoy supporters – do you think that the Houston series was an aberration? A mirage? Do you think that somehow if we play somebody else this playoff series that BRoy’s iso’s will win this time? Sorry, but it was an inconvenient truth… BRoy alone cannot win a title…
nope he can't ...however you might recall a close series
I do…in which a rookie big man got schooled by the refs and 2 experienced bigs…I suspect it wouldn’t be the same this time around..just a hunch
"And in the end
The love you take
Is equal to the love you make." -The Beatles
by 92wastheyear on Nov 22, 2009 3:31 PM PST up reply actions
we know what he doesn't need - Andre Miller
by blacknoiseNW on Nov 22, 2009 11:51 AM PST up reply actions
Another sign of his immaturity...
Sometimes, youngsters don’t know what’s best for them. They only know what they’ve exprienced. It takes mentors to guide youngsters into the next level of enlightenment, and increase their level of achievement…
Explain how it is best for him or Andre
really..not kidding
"And in the end
The love you take
Is equal to the love you make." -The Beatles
by 92wastheyear on Nov 22, 2009 3:29 PM PST up reply actions
We need to trade Miller at some point
Brandon and Nate don’t think he can work in the first unit. Miller has given indications he’s not happy being a bench player but he still has good value as a heady veteren who can still play and is on a fair, short term contract.
Get a good backup forward, a more suitable upgrade at the point (Hinrich again anyone?) but I think we should definately use him rather than keep trying to motivate him with control over the second unit and less minutes than an average backup pg that isn’t playing well. It’s not gonna work.
"What happened to Bayless anyway? Did he turn into a pumpkin? Most teams don’t just let #11 picks rot." - Xiane
If Miller pouts and doesn't get with the program I predict KP will look to move him after Dec 15.
But if Miller would accept his role and run (and I do mean run) the 2nd group with Rudy we could be a terrific team.
There is no 2nd team (never was) but rather a rotation of 8-9 players. With the current injuries the 2nd group consists of Miller, Rudy, and combinations that change during Miller’s stints on the floor. About half of Miller time is with Joel and the other half with Oden. About half with LMA and the other half with Howard (or perhaps DC will get some run). And about half with Roy and half with Webster (or perhaps some Bayless). It’s actually more of a challenge to direct those variations and supply your own offensive contributions than it is to start. That’s why we would be a better team with Miller playing that role than Blake.
Will Miller accept that role for the good of the team? I doubt it, since he didn’t the first time Nate tried it. The 3-guard lineup wasn’t to appease Blake, it was to appease Miller. Now (after the GSW debacle) I think Brandon told Nate enough (which is what he meant by someone else – i.e. Miller – has to sacrifice, rather than him). If Miller can’t play the role that the coach asks him to, then it’s time to treat him like the hired gunslinger he said he was and trade him for some pieces that might actually still be around when Brandon, Oden, and LMA are competing for a championship in a couple of years.
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Nov 22, 2009 2:31 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Thats exactly it
Will he accept the role. However much people like Nate and Brandon say the best five don’t always start or Andre can be great with the second unit it doesn’t change the fact that Andre will be seen having a lesser role and effectively being judged as worse than Blake in the public and around the league. I don’t think many people here think Andre isn’t a starting calibre PG, I know Andre is damn sure he is a starting calibre PGand I just don’t see this situation working well.
I don’t see an easy solution because as much as I would like to get Hinrich, trading Miller for him would make little sense for the Bulls and would leave us with Hinrich and Blake – not exactly different skillsets there. My other favourite acquirable PGis Mike Conley, but I don’t see what motivation the Grizzlies would have in wanting Miller, especially as they just signed Tinsley and have no playoff or championship (ha) aspirations in the next couple of years.
The type of team that would want Miller hypothetically would be champonship or at least playoff level teams who could use his skills as a starter or are in need due to an injury….
The Magic are the obvious first choice as their all-star PG is injured (again) and they are currently using Anthony Johnson (the PG version of Juwan) as a full time backup with a 34 year old Jason Williams as a starter. They have plenty of 3 point shooters to mitigate Andre’s weakness from deep although this would put a dent in their strategy of surrounding Dwight with 4 shooters and raining it in from 3. Personally I would throw every bit of talent we have up to and including Rudy (not Batum or the Big 3 obviously) to try and get Jameer and Brandon Bass from them. Pretty sure we don’t have the pieces to get that done though.
The Celtics would be interested if they lost Rondo and the Fakers would probably take him but don’t really have anything we want to give in return. The Hawks have Bibby and aren’t going to mess with anything if they keep going the way they are currently. Dallas, Houston and Phoenix are obvious no’s. Cleveland would be interesting – you could easily get West and Gibson/Powe in a deal for Miller, but with Lebron being even more ball dominant than Roy there would be the same issues. Toronto could be interested but Calderon is the only real guy of interest here and his defense is such a liability I don’t think we would be interested.
My last best effort for a decent trade destination for Miller is Miami. Wade likes the ball in his hands too but the Heat are in a position where they need to look committed to winning and trading for a guy like Miller would do alot to help them in this area. Udonis Haslem is a guy who I would trade Miller for straight up, he would absolutely resolve any depth issues we have at PF and be another veteren leader (except one who can actually play as well). If you can get Mario Chalmers somehow then all the better, he would be a good fit longterm next to Roy, not sure what it would take to get him though.
So in summary, send Miller to sunny Florida so he can start again as he undoubtedly wants to and get some stuff back that can help us this year (banger PF) or in the future (PGOTF) without disrupting Nate and Brandon’s inflexible ideas about how the Blazers should play.
Now that was a stream of consciousness post if ever I saw one!
"What happened to Bayless anyway? Did he turn into a pumpkin? Most teams don’t just let #11 picks rot." - Xiane
I noticed you only mentioned the Memphis Grizzlies in passing, although that may not be an ...
altogether crazy idea. The one thing the Grizzlies need more than anything is a steady presence at point guard who’s a willing distributor, calm floor general, and very reserved professional off the court.
As it is, Andre Miller fits that description.
As it stands, the Grizzlies could soon be ready to give up on Mike Conley, Jr. — who’s having a subpar season this year — and, even though I’m not a fan of his, he’s young, cheap, has three-point range on his shot, and possesses room to grow.
Yet, Conley, Jr. doesn’t earn enough salary to make the trade work within the CBA rules; thus, there’d have to be additions to any potential transaction. For the Grizzlies, moving Marko Jaric’s overpriced contract — which expires after the 2010-2011 season — would be essential to any deal. For the Portland Trail Blazers, Travis Outlaw’s on-court value is zilch; however, his off-court value is solid due to having an expiring contract. That, along with the Grizzlies reported interest in him earlier, makes him a prime candidate to also be included in such a trade come 12/15/2009.
FROM MEMPHIS & TO PORTLAND
SF/PG Marko Jaric ($7,100,000)
PG Mike Conley, Jr. ($3,883,800)
FROM PORTLAND & TO MEMPHIS
PG Andre Miller ($6,730,800)
F Travis Outlaw ($3,600,000)
2010 Second-Round Draft Pick (More Favorable of Chicago’s Pick & Portland’s Pick)
$3,000,000 Cash Considerations
http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=5294307
ROTATION
FIRST QUARTER & THIRD QUARTER
6 Minutes
Pivotman: Greg Oden
High-Post Forward: LaMarcus Aldridge
Weakside Cornerman: Martell Webster
Ballside Wing: Brandon Roy
Off Guard: Steve Blake
2 Minutes
Pivotman: Joel Przybilla
High-Post Forward: LaMarcus Aldridge
Weakside Cornerman: Martell Webster
Ballside Wing: Brandon Roy
Off Guard: Steve Blake
4 Minutes
Pivotman: Joel Przybilla
High-Post Forward: Dante Cunningham
Weakside Cornerman: Rudy Fernandez
Ballside Wing: Brandon Roy
Off Guard: Mike Conley, Jr.
SECOND QUARTER & FOURTH QUARTER
4 Minutes
Pivotman: Joel Przybilla
High-Post Forward: LaMarcus Aldridge
Weakside Cornerman: Martell Webster
Ballside Wing: Jerryd Bayless
Off Guard: Mike Conley, Jr.
2 Minutes
Pivotman: Greg Oden
High-Post Forward: LaMarcus Aldridge
Weakside Cornerman: Rudy Fernandez
Ballside Wing: Brandon Roy
Off Guard: Mike Conley, Jr.
6 Minutes
Pivotman: Greg Oden
High-Post Forward: LaMarcus Aldridge
Weakside Cornerman: Rudy Fernandez
Ballside Wing: Brandon Roy
Off Guard: Steve Blake
Going forward, that’d be a solid rotation that could win roughly 55 games and reach the second round of this season’s playoffs.
Dear Paul Allen:
Fire Nate McMillan & hire Jeff Van Gundy.
Sincerely,
AK1984
Well, lessee, other than the fact that Jarik sucks, the Blazers don't want to spend $3M, and Conley can currently be had for pennies on the dollar...
………………………And the practice of micromanaging rotations down to the minute and pretending that has the remotest relationship to anything Nate McMillan would ever do is very Dungeons and Dragonsy (or to be even less contemporary, very Stratomatic Basebally)………………………..
Sounds terrific!
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
Try this trade: Blake (expiring) for Conley, straight up.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
If we are destined to rigidly stick to Nate's system I would personally love the trade proposed by AK, but without the cash considerations.
I get the feeling Memphis would like that deal after the Iverson fiasco given the large amounts of scorers on board and no play-maker on Miller’s level to facilitate them.
Conley’s defense has to be better at the PG than what we already possess, he is a solid play maker and his three point threat is gladly welcomed in either unit.
Of course, I don’t want to stick to Nate’s system but given that there are no signs of it stopping it would be best to discuss how to improve it with players. This is just one way.
#88 > #23 > #25
Updated for latest line-up:
#5 > #2
I love the idea of getting Conley but...
I’m of the opinion that KP/Nate/Brandon do not want Blake traded at all so I sort of excluded that possibility. Plus if you do this you are left with Miller, who would probably feel even more strongly about starting over a 3rd year player who is having his share of troubles.
I would take AK’s proposal but perhaps look to get another piece that could be useful for us in the longterm, such as Sam Young. For taking Jaric’s awful contract we would certainly deserve it.
"What happened to Bayless anyway? Did he turn into a pumpkin? Most teams don’t just let #11 picks rot." - Xiane
Blake for Conley certainly weakens the team this year
It might be a good long-term move.
Personally, I am tired of wasting Brandon Roy Years. How many years will he play in this league? Let’s go for the title now. Whatever moves we need to make to make a serious run at the title, let’s do it now. – Elgin
Travis Outlaw, the Funnel Cake of the Blazers
Oh please
The three guard lineup was to get the best PG on the team in games
I can’t believe some of your guy’s memories are so short. Unreal. You lost in the first round with Steve Blake last season against a team you were favored against. Shake yourself.
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on Nov 22, 2009 8:24 AM PST up reply actions
We were favored in that series?
Geez …I seem to remember that Houston was considered the worst possible draw we could get
"And in the end
The love you take
Is equal to the love you make." -The Beatles
by 92wastheyear on Nov 22, 2009 10:33 AM PST up reply actions
not favored.
only looked that way because of the HCA. Houston handled the Blazers in each meeting. The Blazers STOLE the victory with a ridiculous buzzer-beater.
Hardly stolen though
since it was an OT game ….doesn’t change your point though
"And in the end
The love you take
Is equal to the love you make." -The Beatles
by 92wastheyear on Nov 22, 2009 3:57 PM PST up reply actions
My opinion is...
that your vision is clouded if you think the reason we lost “the series” was Steve Blake… There was so much more to it.
Cool, then you can lose in the first round again with Steve Blake
Good idea
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on Nov 22, 2009 8:21 AM PST up reply actions
I would want Miller to stay over Blake 100 times out of 100
But he is clearly not going to be started over Blake with Nate and Brandon in charge so I think out position is untenable. Using his very reasonable deal to acquire a good young PG like Conley would we a wise decision IMO and even is Blake continued to start in this instance at least we would have a player who would fit the style of play that Nate is trying to acheive for the future.
"What happened to Bayless anyway? Did he turn into a pumpkin? Most teams don’t just let #11 picks rot." - Xiane
That picture
Is incredibly amusing.
"What happened to Bayless anyway? Did he turn into a pumpkin? Most teams don’t just let #11 picks rot." - Xiane
Ben, c'mon
That picture is a caption contest ready to happen. Cut the cheese already!
Honor Alaa Abdelnaby.
First in the NBA. At least alphabetically
Roy is good at playing the 2
we might want to keep him there.
Hello Dum Dum
by ryryslyry on Nov 22, 2009 1:57 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
What?
Roy isn’t a 2. He is a 1 in a 3’s body. When has Brandon ever done anything of note playing at the 2.
Exactly.
"What happened to Bayless anyway? Did he turn into a pumpkin? Most teams don’t just let #11 picks rot." - Xiane
Agreed, then we should start the PG who can get the other players besides Roy involved
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on Nov 22, 2009 8:20 AM PST up reply actions
A voice of reason...
Too bad BRoy and Nate don’t see it…
Nate used Reverse Psychology on me!
I was opposed to this starting 5 in the beginning, I felt that Miller Should start ( I still do )
But after the 3 guard line up debacle im rejoicing about the return of Webster and Roy to their rightful places.
Go Blazers!!!!!
I am not so optimistic, Ben
to me the most important change haven’t been done yet – Miller replacing Blake in the starting 5. What worries me the most is that Roy and McMillan seem to make up their mind that Roy can’t work with Miller.
It basically says coach and Roy fail to integrate Miller into the team offense. It’s very alarming.
KP didn’t spend $7 million a year to sign a guy to lead the 2nd unit 20 minutes a night. I am aware of the argument that “starting doesn’t necessarily mean playing more minutes” but come on, let’s face it: If Miller can’t work with 1st unit like they claimed, then the team will close the game without him as well as start. It’s not possible for Miller to get too many minutes.
Miller
You know, sacrificing Miller’s starting role amounts to sacrificing some of Greg Oden’s developing offensive game. Blake and Roy haven’t shown enough proficiency (especially last season) in setting up the big man. If Roy wants the ball more, I think he’s got to add another wrinkle to his game. Perhaps and Oden/Roy pick and roll, instead of the pop, or the usual Brandon drive. I just can’t help but feel skeptical…
This is my fear as well
Miller and Fernandez are the two best post entry passers on this team. It’s not just as simple as dumping the ball down low – many of the passes those two throw put GO in a position where he can make quick move and score. We know what we have in Brandon – an All Star SG. But history has shown that a great SG (Kobe, Jordan, etc.) cannot win it all by themselves. Greg Oden (and LMA for that matter) need to be integral parts of the offense if this team is going to win a title. Miller and Rudy make them better. Roy can (if he commits to it) make them better. Steve Blake can’t. Not a knock on Steve, but again, he is a spot up shooter, not a creator.
"man, steve blake is clutch *dead*" - Ben Golliver on Twitter
by blazeraddict on Nov 22, 2009 10:17 AM PST up reply actions
Exactly
The Blazers championship hopes depend on the development and emergence of Greg ODen into a superstar.
Blake makes maybe 1 good post pass a week… BRoy makes maybe two… So we can all forget about Greg becoming dominating as long as Steve is playing with him.
Such a complete waste of talent… FIRE NATE!.
Add me to team Dante !!
Like the kid. But when is Nic supposed to be back? Dante has some big shoes to fill with Nic and Travis both out.
"That's just how I get down"........ Andre Miller
Did you guys know it's Roy's team?
Brandon Roy bought the team from Paul Allen.
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on Nov 22, 2009 8:18 AM PST up reply actions
How about the Brandon Roy TrailBlazers?
Has a nice ring to it
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on Nov 22, 2009 8:19 AM PST up reply actions
I hope he doesn't move the team to Seattle
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on Nov 22, 2009 8:19 AM PST up reply actions
You know, cuz it's his team and all
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on Nov 22, 2009 8:19 AM PST up reply actions
Starting our "worst point guard" was key
…in this game. We needed the three point shooting. And Blake delivered.
"I'd like to see Nate McMillan stop treating fouls like they are rollover minutes." - Blazer Guy 11/4/09
Can't figure out what Nate is doing with rotations
but as as long as we play the Timberwolve’s twice a week the rest of the season we should be fine. The minutes looked pretty normal roation-wise last night.
We have been through so many rotation changes, it really feels like “throw it at the wall and see what sticks” sometimes.
Players seem to go in and out of the dog house on a hair trigger on this team. The shake ups almost seem designed to keep players from getting a rythym or developing any playing time expectations, but maybe thats good.
Its just that with some guys it seems like when the minutes are their so is the production. I hear, well this guy didn’t play cause he didn’t play defense and I look and the guy speant two minutes in the game. Next game he plays thirty min’s and has a double double……..
It just still seems like the biggest source of inconsistancy on the team is our coach…..
This was a win, but was ANYTHING fixed?
- For two and a half quarters we struggled against the Wolves (one of the worst teams in the league). Will this kind of performance beat even an average team?
- We pull away only when Martell explodes. Is our team so bad, that Martell has to have an explosive night for us to pull away from the Wolves?
- We pull away when the team starts to rain threes. Is the three point shot going to be our identity?
- LMA is still looking lost out there. Can we compete when our second biggest offensive threat is getting shut down by mediocre teams?
Very glad that we won, ‘cos for a while we looked like we would lose to the Wolves!!! Glad that we built a lead and held on to it, and we didn’t have an almost meltdown like against the Pistons. But is anything fixed about this team? We have a great record, but if we continue like this against the better teams, we wont even make the playoffs. We have the Bulls next, a so-so team; then we have the dregs again in NJN and MEM. Fools gold. Unless stuff really gets sorted out, we’ll be lucky to go 6-10 starting from the Utah game.
by FromAfar on Nov 22, 2009 8:48 AM PST reply actions 2 recs
Wins against lousy opponents can mask a host of problems.
Didn’t we learn that on the road trip? People seem to have very short memories.
by upper left corner on Nov 22, 2009 10:04 AM PST up reply actions
Bad teams can play a good half. They get murdered in the second half...
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
I am not celebrating until I get to see a Miller/Roy backcourt for a few games
Getting Roy back to SG is good.
Showing a little faith in Webster is good.
Sitting Blake would be much, much better.
I do not think we will know what we have until we try a Miller/Roy backcourt w/o Blake on the floor for at least a half-dozen games. People keeping making pronouncements about Miller not fitting, but I don’t think it has even been tried. Maybe it won’t work, but we won’t know until we really try.
I understand the need for spacing, but I don’t see why Rudy or Webster can’t be the three point threat.
With all due respect to Steve, I just think his presence on the floor comes at a pretty high price:
Blake is not good at getting the ball into the post, so we do not take full advantage of Oden’s size and power.
Blake is terrible at running the break so we do not take advantage of LMA and Martell’s athleticism and speed.
Blake is not nearly as good at lob passing as Miller.
Blake almost never penetrates or draws fouls which hurts his efficiency.
Blake is not nearly as good as Miller at being a defensive quarterback telling guys where to be on the floor.
Blake can’t or won’t post up anybody the way Miller can.
Blake is supposed to be a crack 3 pt shooter, but even that skill has been at best inconsistent.
When I posted a Fanpost asking why Blake is getting so many minutes, the only real answer I got was a vague theory about Blake being some kind of great team defender, which seems highly unlikely given that he is a below average defender to begin with.
If I could put Nate up against a wall and ask him one question knowing that he would give me a complete and honest answer, I would ask him why he seems to insist on playing Blake. If Blake brings something to the floor it is certainly not evident in the stats. If Roy is the one demanding Blake, then that would change my opinion of Roy. On paper, Miller clearly seems like a better playmaker for everyone else on the team. If Roy can’t see that, then I would be highly disappointed.
by upper left corner on Nov 22, 2009 10:01 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Allow me to put on my Nate hat...
If I could put Nate up against a wall and ask him one question knowing that he would give me a complete and honest answer, I would ask him why he seems to insist on playing Blake.
“Well, ULC, it’s like this… Blake is a veteran who has proven in actual game action that he can knock down open 3s. His presence on the floor on the perimeter must be respected by a defender, which opens up the middle of the floor and gives Brandon lanes to get to the rim, which is what he does best. Defenses have been sagging off Andre and packing the key, knowing that he can’t hit the open-look 23 footer (or the open-look 20 footer, or the open look 17 footer, or the open-look 15 footer.) That clogs the middle and makes it impossible for Brandon to do what he does best.”
It’s really not a question of Blake v. Miller at this point, I don’t think, it’s Blake v. Rex. Rex has GOT to prove he can shoot the ball well enough to kill the open looks from distance. At that point, you trade a little less passing for a GREAT DEAL more ability to get to the rack or to drive-and-kick and a superior defender…
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Nov 22, 2009 10:07 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
+92
"And in the end
The love you take
Is equal to the love you make." -The Beatles
by 92wastheyear on Nov 22, 2009 10:39 AM PST up reply actions
Seems to me your Natish response completely sidestepped the substance of my post.
What about Blake’s limitations?
What about his poor shooting, increased turnovers, and decreased assists so far this season?
Why so much impatience with other players and seemingly endless patience with Blake?
What about Blake and Martell’s ability to hit from distance?
by upper left corner on Nov 22, 2009 11:17 AM PST up reply actions
You are trying to show that Miller is a better point guard.
I don’t think Nate would argue with you about that. Roy wouldn’t. He said last night it wasn’t about starting the best PG. Nate is trying to put the best combinations to win on the floor for 48 minutes. He wants to start the PG that he believes is the best fit with his franchise player and play the PG with the “2nd group” in the 8-9 man rotation that can best lead them. It’s that simple.
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Nov 22, 2009 1:31 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
When the play-offs come.....
Roy and Miller should be on the floor for about 40 minutes apiece.
May I humbly suggest that they need to learn to play together, and the sooner the better.
There is a reason most teams start there best five players. Sometimes one of the best players is held out for scoring balance (see Manu), but when push comes to shove, they have their best players on the floor.
If you want Blake to have his 18-20 minutes with the starters and have Miller overlap the first and second units that may work. But you act as though Roy is the only guy in the starting five. My contention has been and remains that Miller makes life easier for Oden, LMA, and Martell (or Rudy). Miller should be playing at least 28 min and Blake should be playing no more than 20. No matter how you carve up the minutes, Roy and Miller need to learn to coexist or this team is not going to reach its potential.
by upper left corner on Nov 22, 2009 2:32 PM PST up reply actions
Let's trade Roy
we could get that back up banger everyone wants
"And in the end
The love you take
Is equal to the love you make." -The Beatles
by 92wastheyear on Nov 22, 2009 4:00 PM PST up reply actions
you didn’t add in any references to scrap or “does some things for us.”
i cry for nic
by Cablinasian on Nov 22, 2009 11:21 AM PST up reply actions
I give the overrall guard play of this team a C-
(not counting Rudy). These guys need to stop looking confused out there. Shooting needs to improve. Turnovers need to come down.
Minus New Jersey, any team can look good against Minnesota. A ‘real’ NBA team would have had Portland down by double digits at half time.
Blake, Roy, and Miller – 2 of those 3 need to get their respective games back in sync or this team will continue to struggle on both ends or the court.
Portland's PG of the Future - MORE John Wall
Treat people well because Karma can hit you at any second.
They have a played a few....
….real teams….as I recall the only one that beat the Blazers by double digits was GS….the farthest thing from a real NBA team.
"And in the end
The love you take
Is equal to the love you make." -The Beatles
by 92wastheyear on Nov 22, 2009 4:02 PM PST up reply actions
until Blake learns to play against pressure defense
he remains a liability, even if he is shooting well.
The reason is that his assist to turnover ratio drops considerably when playing against quick guards that get in his face.
Miller, on paper, is the solution to pressure teams. He can finish in the paint, run the break, lob in the alley for some oop.
If only he could shoot or play defense.
The whole team needs to lean how to play against pressure defense
I think it is due to coaching as much as it is due to the players the Blazers have.
yup
I believe Nate acknowledged this by saying he wants to reduce the number of players handling the ball
by blacknoiseNW on Nov 22, 2009 5:25 PM PST up reply actions
"You thought Blazers bigs should be allowed three fouls in the first half, like every other team in the league?"
I’m happy with the win, but I also think it’s really sad it took us losing to the Warriors because he took our bigs out to realize what every other coach already knows.
Your confusing thesis has captured my attention. Tell me more.
Absolutely...
Nate’s policy of sitting Greg after two fouls is ridiculous… Telling the rest of the league, so you put a target on his uni is grounds for termintation, IMO…
by Visionary2 on Nov 22, 2009 2:38 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I know it’s been said here already but I tend to agree.
Try giving Outlaw’s old minutes to Dante Cunningham for a few games against these trash teams coming up. Next 3 games are Chicago, New Jersey and Memphis all at home. Now I know Chicago isn’t a trash team but it’s still worth giving Dante a shot there. It’s not like Chicago is bursting at the seams with big men. Juwan Howard is really supposed to be a hard hat injury replacement player deep on our bench. Not so sure he works out taking full backup minutes behind LaMarcus.
Sometimes a player's greatest challenge is coming to grips with his role on the team.
-- Scottie Pippen
by halo_on on Nov 22, 2009 2:06 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Pro-Miller Argument
Let me predicate this argument by stating that I’ve argued the Miller/Roy issue wasn’t resolved, but I thought it was a couple of games ago (prior to GSW fiasco). However, I think that Miller/Roy should work for this reason:
1) Gives Roy an opportunity to be productive without spiralling his usage out of control
2) Improved offensive sets:
a. Miller is the best option for transition offense that doesn’t involve the ball handler driving for the layup to the exclusion of the wings running the outside lanes
The Blazer offense needs to have more options available with every set. Right now, Miller is a liability with the outside shot. However, you can have Roy, Webster and LMA shooting off screens and pick and pops or setting up outside the 3-point line and force defenses to spread out. Once the defense spreads out, Miller and Roy can attack the paint off the dribble and feed either Oden or LMA for layups/dunks, depending on which defender rotates to help. One of the wings that doesn’t penetrate can back cut, while the other provides an outside shot option.c. the pick and roll becomes a legitimate offense when the paint isn’t packed tighter than a can of sardines and it doesn’t take 10 seconds to start it.
d. Miller can be effective when the Blazer post game develops past middle school JV level (how hard is it to set some back picks, swing the ball from side to side and hit the post just as he is arriving in position with the defender behind him?). Honestly, if I see another bad angle entry pass from too high on the key to a post player that has wasted 10 seconds holding his guy off that is fronting with the other post defender poised to collapse on the over the top lob, I’m gonna go ballistic.
I think Miller would be awesome at a faux high pick and roll on the strong side while a wing back screens for Oden/LMA, and the ball comes either on the dribble or on the pass to the weakside for a well-timed entry pass to a deep position post.
Creative offense that maximizes your personnel is an obligation, in this league. No more kid stuff. Let’s see something that works.
block was accidental
html code easier than one might think to plug into a paragraph
by blacknoiseNW on Nov 22, 2009 5:49 PM PST up reply actions
wow
same old arguments on this site. Get out the lice and go over it one more time….
so anyways, on to things that matter: anyone know if Martell is alright? Any word on that? huh?
"No disrespect to Jeff Blake"
by Eat Politicians on Nov 22, 2009 9:36 PM PST reply actions
Squats the John
Thats rich. I still don’t understand why he does that. I guess its intimidating?
by ODEN on a stick on Nov 23, 2009 12:24 AM PST reply actions

by 
























