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Around SBN: News And Other Updates Leading Up To Pats-Giants

Around the League #1

Welcome to a new, hopefully semi-regular end-of-week feature we're trying called "Around the League".  Things being what they are, I get so caught up in talking Blazers that I seldom have a chance to address things that go on beyond our confines.  In these posts we'll do exactly that, plus mop up some Blazer topics that we didn't have time to treat in earlier conversation.  My intention is not to play the expert here as much to share opinions which could lead to interesting discussion.  So away we go!

Get Well Paul Allen

The most important real-life news out of the league this week came from our own franchise, as Blazers owner Paul Allen was diagnosed with non-Hodgkin Lymphoma.  There's nothing revolutionary we can say about this other than facing any kind of cancer makes for a tough fight but we know Paul Allen is a tough fighter.  However I'd like to add my personal well-wishes, however humble they may be compared to what is needed. 

Things like this transcend our normal relationships.  We know you because you're the owner of the Blazers, Mr. Allen.  We appreciate you because of what you've done for (and with) the team over the last two decades.  But even though a life is measured by one's accomplishments it cannot be wholly defined by them.  It's time to show support for Paul Allen the human being...not the billionaire, the final decision-maker, but the person.  No matter what happens with the team, the season, or anything basketball-related we support you, Mr. Allen.  We are with you, sending our hopes and prayers in your direction, and if ever you doubt that you need but ask.  I'm pretty sure thousands of pick-me-ups are at your fingertips anytime, day or night.  Thank you for being who you are.  Strength and peace be with you in this struggle.

Thoughts and prayers also go out to others in our Blazersedge and greater Blazers community who are also fighting this fight.

Click through for a bunch more topics.

Star-divide

Whither Allen Iverson?

Everybody outside of Tennessee knew that signing Allen Iverson to the Grizzlies ranked right up there with clamping your tongue to live jumper cables on the Good Idea Scale.  Few anticipated his tenure in Memphis would be this short.  He's just cleared waivers and is available to anyone who wants him.  Should anyone bite?

I don't believe Iverson is a wholly toxic player, even now.  He has some game left and could be an asset in the right situation.  You just have to realize that he's going to be super-mega-nuclear toxic if both of these situations are true:

1.  You don't plan to play him 38 minutes per game.  And...

2.  You're not going to win 50+ games.

Memphis acquiring him was three-O's stooopid because they're developing young scorers and ball-handlers already and they were going to be on the low end of mediocre no matter what Iverson did for them.  The amount of ball-handling time he requires when unchecked would have killed them.  The amount of losing they were going to do didn't give them any leverage to say him nay.  However this does not apply to every team equally.

If you're a lousy team that just wants to run the AI Show, complete with caustic interviews and 32 shots per game from him, by all means go ahead.  You might at least sell some tickets.  You'll certainly generate some national media attention.  But that avenue is pretty much a waste of everyone's time.  The more intriguing possibility would be a team with a strong identity, perhaps a firmly-ensconced superstar already, who could legitimately tell Iverson to play along or take a hike.  The team would also have to be on a straight road to the deep playoffs even without Iverson.  Obviously it would also require 30-ish minutes to play him.  He's not going to play along entirely, of course, but if his runaway self-absorption could be kept even halfway in check he could give you something.  He might be willing to pick up an oar for a year in order to get back to the Finals and have his name associated with winning again.

Keep in mind that at this point he's a relatively cheap experiment as well.  You can probably have him for the minimum required.  At that rate there's no reason to rue cutting him if things don't work out.  I'll be interested to see if anybody, even one decent team, takes a chance.  The hot rumor is the Knicks but were I them I really wouldn't bother.  It's a total Isiah move.  The only way it could be more so is if they immediately offered him a multi-year, eight-figure deal.  They don't have the infrastructure to withstand Hurricane Allen.  We'll see what happens.

Meanwhile, Back at the Hall of Justice

Having booted The Flash out of the Superfriends for being not-so-friendly the Grizzlies took a chance on The Green Lantern, a.k.a. Jamaal Tinsley.  Tinsley is more of a true point guard than Iverson was.  But he's had off-court problems, injury problems, attitude problems, and last I heard wanted to be more of a scorer, except he lacks any visible capacity to score.  One of the things that made him special in his prime was his defense.  Defense equals effort.  Effort is often hard to eke out of guys with attitude problems when they're not being featured in as prominent of a role as they'd like.  So you can probably strike that off of the list even if Tinsley gets and stays in playing shape.  So what did we end up with?  Half of a point guard with all of the potential problems.  My only conclusion is that Memphis management hates Lionel Hollins.  With a passion.

Speaking of Attitude Problems

The trade of the week was the Stephen Jackson-Raja Bell swap between Golden State and Charlotte.  (Plus players to be named later.  Ooops!  My bad.  They were named already.  Vladimir Radmanovic and Acie Law.  Neither of those players is going to be named much later.)  Color me underwhelmed by the deal.  On the surface it makes sense, as the Bobcats desperately need more offense and the Warriors haven't even heard of defense.  But Bell is injured and even if he weren't it's pretty hard to champion an entire defense from the shooting guard position when you're the only one playing defense at all.  A center might do it.  Maybe even a power forward.  But Bell is going to be sticking his finger into a hole the size of Crater Lake.  He's probably just going to get wet.  And the fact that the Warriors were willing to part with Jackson for damaged goods should tell you something about where he is right now.  The wrong-est move in all of this was signing him to a secure contract.  You got some pretty good play out of him when his deal got short.  Then you went and gave him four years of license to Jax you up.  Smart.

LeBron Changes Numbers

I know it's old news but I never weighed in officially.  This Jordan #23 thing is silly.  Michael was a great player for one team.  He should be honored to the moon by one team.  The rest of us can remember him every time we play that one team.  Michael changed the marketing and coverage of the NBA and the change in marketing and coverage led to a whole raft of new hoop dreams for a new generation.  I understand that fully.  But that's not why you retire jerseys even in one town, let alone in all of them simultaneously.  You could make a stronger argument if he were the all-time scoring leader by a huge margin but he's third on the list.  You could make a stronger argument if he was the most prolific stat guy ever but there was Wilt.  You could make a stronger argument if nobody in history won nearly as many championships as he but you have vintage Celtics waving seven blinging fingers at you.  Besides if you're going to count championships you better retire Pippen's number league-wide alongside Michael's.  They never won without each other.  The fact that LeBron is changing his number to that of Dr. J and Bill Russell only makes the fallacy more evident.  They each had a pretty big impact on and off the floor.  This is just like somebody saying that U2 should be forever enshrined above all bands because they were the defining group of a generation and more.  That may be true but the impulse is also, by definition, generational.  People from an earlier era are going to start asking about the Stones and the Beatles then.  People before them will latch onto Elvis.  Who was really the greatest?  Each generation has its argument and its claim and that's the way it should be.  There might not be another Michael, but there will be somebody else who impacts the league as strongly in a different way.  Let them be compared and debated without attempting to freeze our moment in time and labeling it the greatest of all conceivable times.

AROUND THE SITE...

Part of this feature will be addressing topics that have gotten some play in the comments and sidebar.  To wit:

Is Marc Stein DOH!  Bill Simmons a Tool?  (Sorry, Marc.)

Maybe, but he probably doesn't care.  In the old days of professional wrestling people cheered the good guys and booed the bad.  This is how each made their money.  Then people smartened up to how the game worked.  Nowadays a great bad guy is as likely to get cheered as booed, simply because people appreciate how good he is at being bad.  We probably need to smarten up to the media circus as well.  Anybody who gets you riled up is making bank off of just that.  If Simmons is good at cheesing off Portland fans it's because he relishes it.  If you like that kind of thing then by all means get cheesed and have fun with it.  If you're really angry and want to take action, ignoring it is the best thing you can do.  Cheers are good.  Boos are good.  Silence is crushing.

Would Gerald Wallace Make a Good Blazer?

Yes and no.  He's definitely that kind of crazed, charging bull that this team lacks.  He's also the kind of crazed, charging bull that will want to start at small forward.  In the short term that's not a problem, but Nicolas Batum might be just as valuable in the long run.  Plus he'd be expensive to get.  On the other hand you wouldn't have to worry about rebounding anymore.  On the other hand he might have to moderate his game with age and as soon as he starts shooting jumpers instead of driving the lane he's much less of a player.  If the Blazers did get him I think they'd need to concentrate on two things at the point guard position:  distance shooting and the ability to run.  You'd depend heavily on the frontcourt to beat everyone up and reserve the backcourt for running and shooting.  Everything else would take second-fiddle.  I don't think that point guard is on this team right now.  I think Andre Miller and Jerryd Bayless specifically don't fit that mold.  So you'd need to plan another move sooner or later.  Given all of that, it's not likely to happen.

Any Chance the Blazers are Ready This Year?

This question was posed by jksnake in our live chat but he posed it at quarter-after-midnight when I was on my way out the door.  Specifically he wanted to know what I perceived the difference to be between this year and next, since I've opined that the window is still shut this season but it starts opening thereafter.  Is it just an experience difference?

Experience is part of it...not just experience in the league but experience playing together.  We haven't even got a regular lineup right now.  Even without injuries we'd still be juggling that.  Players are starting to trust each other and are learning to work together but it's still a work in progress.  Frankly when they get under stress things tend to break down still instead of the team stepping up.  One or two guys might bail us out of trouble but five together can't.  The playoffs bring a ton of stress.  It's more intense, sustained, and targeted directly at your weak points.  The team should be far more settled by the time they reach the post-season but in reality you have to learn your lessons all over again once you get there.  Teams that are learning might win a series or even two but they won't win four.  Next year we should enter the year knowing what we've got.  We may see a couple roster changes but they should be specific and hopefully only in one critical area instead of the three or four we're juggling now.  Next year we'll also have more playoff experience and a better idea of what going deep is like (knock on wood).

The other critical factor is Greg Oden.  You can already see what a monstrous difference he makes for this team.  But in basketball terms he's just taking his first steps right now.  He'll need to make more of a difference more consistently for the Blazers to march to a title.  It's too early to pin that much on him.  He's still getting in regular foul trouble, feeling his way around the offense, rushing shots, turning the ball over, and a ton of other little things that he'll need to work on throughout the year.  He'll be good come playoff time but he won't be great enough to make the difference we need.  Next season the expectations get higher for him.

Finally, as I always say when these things come up, you can tell we're not there by how we have to envision making it.  "We match up better than most against the L*kers.  We should be able to take San Antonio this year.   If we can get by or avoid the Nuggets we should have a chance."  You can switch around the names in those various sentences however you wish.  The fact remains that if you have to say those things you aren't the dominant team.  You don't want to be the team that plays the L*kers well.  You want to be the L*kers.  This kind of talk screams Minnesota '03-'04, not L.A. ‘08-'09.  Name me a team that's won it all recently that came into the season thinking they might have a chance instead of coming into the season knowing they were going to win.  The L*kers knew.  The Celtics knew.  The Spurs always knew.  Shaq and Wade's Heat, the Pistons, Shaq and Kobe's L*kers, both sets of Michael's Bulls...they all knew too.  This is NOT to say that there's one, predestined team each year.   It's perfectly possible for multiple teams to come into the season knowing that they're going to take the title.  Only one of them turns out to be right, but the others still had that confidence and attitude.  (Drexler's Blazers knew in '90-'91, for instance, as did the '99-'00 ‘Sheed-led squad.)  You probably have to go back to our own '89-‘90 Blazers in their first Finals before you can find a sneak-ish team.  But even they had an inkling what was going to happen when they got Buck Williams.  Plus their situation was much different, staffed as they were by veterans in their early, but legitimate, primes.  (Porter was in his 4th year and Duck his 3rd but Clyde was in his 6th, Kersey his 5th, and Williams his 8th.  Between them the starting five had 23 combined years of playoff experience.  The current Blazer starters have 11 combined and 5 of those are Miller's.  I'm not sure the entire squad put together has much more than 23.)  The Blazers aren't even at the point where they know themselves yet, let alone knowing that they can dominate the rest of the league no matter what comes.  That'll take time.  It's actually pretty bold to think that it has a chance of happening next year even.  But this team has always been a little ahead of the curve.

--Dave (blazersub@yahoo.com)

Comment 87 comments  |  2 recs  | 

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You probably have to go back to our own ’89-‘90 Blazers in their first Finals before you can find a sneak-ish team

Last year’s Magic were in that category, I think.

Porter was in his 4th year and Duck his 3rd but Clyde was in his 6th, Kersey his 5th, and Williams his 8th. Between them the starting five had 23 combined years of playoff experience.

I sure hope ths current crop of Blazers desn’t have to go “one round and out” in the playoff for 4 out of 5 years beforebreaking through, like Drexler’s Pistons Blazers. (I’m not sure that Roy’s knees have 5 years of “tread” before they get to that point.) This season will be a failure if they only manage to win 2-3 playoff games, again. Unless Portland loses a couple more rotation players and whole season becomes a war of attrition, the primary goal needs to be “competitive in round 2, on the verge of breaking through to the WCF” heading into next summer. Miller-Roy-LMA-Oden all have to play well, together, for this to happen

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Nov 20, 2009 12:45 AM PST reply actions  

Shhhhh!!!

Some of us have blacked that out!

Spot of tea? One lump or two? Yes, tea. Nice tea…

—Dave

by Dave on Nov 20, 2009 12:20 PM PST up reply actions  

that was the lock out year right? the one where 0 basketball was played and there was no playoffs ....

right?

The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out, burns out farms, and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.

by faith on Nov 20, 2009 12:33 PM PST up reply actions  

please get better Paul Allen

The Long term quality of this team depends on him more then any one of the Blazers

"Knowledge will get you from A to B. Creativity will get you anywhere." Einstein

by Garden of ODEN on Nov 21, 2009 12:46 AM PST up reply actions  

We are all part of the Trail Blazers family.

We should all care for Mr. Allen as we would for any member of our own family. Let’s pray for Paul and each other in the Trail Blazers family each day. We’re all in this together.

"Gonna stand my ground. I won't back down." -- Tom Petty

"You have to know the past to understand the present." -- Dr. Carl Sagan

COMCAST SSSUUUCCCKKKSSS!!!!!!!!

Rule No. 18: If you want to live to post another day, don't turn the tube on in Dave's living room.

by MojoMan on Nov 20, 2009 12:49 AM PST reply actions  

Question:

Many of us don’t believe in prayer yet still care for P-dawg and all of humanity for that matter. Will our best wishes do? Can I still feel part of the family?

PS – Good of you to quote the late, great Carl Sagan. We must not forget those lost before their time.

by pistachio on Nov 20, 2009 9:17 AM PST up reply actions  

Because this is about wishing Paul Allen well

much more than it is about the well-wishers, in this case. If we get hung up on the terminology used, and how it fits >me<, we’re more focused on ourselves than what really matters in the situation, it seems to me. And everyone here wants to send Paul Allen pretty much the same message.

"Woulda, Coulda, Mighta and Shoulda – the Four Horsemen of the Procrastocalypse" - Red-5

by jscot on Nov 20, 2009 1:00 PM PST up reply actions  

Sorry for launching a divergence from what is important: Paul.

Let’s each care for him in our own way as we would our own family member.

"Gonna stand my ground. I won't back down." -- Tom Petty

"You have to know the past to understand the present." -- Dr. Carl Sagan

COMCAST SSSUUUCCCKKKSSS!!!!!!!!

Rule No. 18: If you want to live to post another day, don't turn the tube on in Dave's living room.

by MojoMan on Nov 20, 2009 1:08 PM PST up reply actions  

Thoughts and prayers,

and well-wishes and thanks were all included. Great post Dave.

I needed to ask MojoMan my question in order to honestly take part, with MojoMan, and the rest of the Blazers family in expressing concern for Paul and his family.

I think everybody knows someone who has battled cancer. I have seen very strong members of my family fight this disease. It’s no picnic. But people can prevail……..to live and love…….and watch Blazers games (championships?).

MojoMan – Thanks for your thoughtful (and tongue in cheek?) answer and acceptance.

Dave – Thanks for not deleting my question.

by pistachio on Nov 20, 2009 2:51 PM PST up reply actions  

Some families like to fight. I think it is always better to pull together. Us against them or against it is always better than a house divided.

The Blazer family is obviously individuals who hold differing opinions on a myriad of topics, but we can join together for the good of each other and all things Blazers.

"Gonna stand my ground. I won't back down." -- Tom Petty

"You have to know the past to understand the present." -- Dr. Carl Sagan

COMCAST SSSUUUCCCKKKSSS!!!!!!!!

Rule No. 18: If you want to live to post another day, don't turn the tube on in Dave's living room.

by MojoMan on Nov 20, 2009 4:05 PM PST up reply actions  

Who's Marc Stein?

Never heard of him. ;-)

As for the Blazers’ playoff prospects: you can’t really predict these things, you never know when a team is going to click. I’m old enough to clearly remember the 76-77 championship team – if you saw those guys at this point in the season, they didn’t look like they were going anywhere. They had stretches when the offense would flow and they’d look great, but then they’d start standing around looking lost, and have a real hard time scoring. Not a lot of wins that way.

They got it together barely in time to make the playoffs, and…well, you know what happened. Not saying that happens often, just saying you never know.

by greenknight on Nov 20, 2009 1:31 AM PST reply actions  

Huge infusion of talent on that team though

which is not the same here. Talent we have gotten, but not a jump of Mo Lucas level.

—Dave

by Dave on Nov 20, 2009 1:37 AM PST up reply actions  

I don't think that matters

The team the year before didn’t even make the playoffs. We didn’t and don’t need a huge infusion of talent to a 54 win team to make it a contender.

It just isn’t comparable.

What is needed to make us a contender is chemistry. That could come by midseason, next year, or never. Impossible to predict.

What is needed to make us dominant, that team that “knows” it is going to win, is better luck on the injury front, chemistry, and Oden becoming a 30 mpg force on both ends. That all could actually come by the end of this season as well, though it probably won’t.

"Woulda, Coulda, Mighta and Shoulda – the Four Horsemen of the Procrastocalypse" - Red-5

by jscot on Nov 20, 2009 2:11 AM PST up reply actions  

someone will litterally need to pee in his cornflakes to get him to Maurice level

The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out, burns out farms, and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.

by faith on Nov 20, 2009 12:25 PM PST up reply actions  

can I volunteer?

"Do me a favor. Put your lip over your head... and swallow." Max Goldman

by clinchmobb on Nov 20, 2009 2:25 PM PST up reply actions  

What does your health insurance policy look like? :)

The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out, burns out farms, and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.

by faith on Nov 21, 2009 9:17 AM PST up reply actions  

Jack Ramsay > Nate McMillian

and it didn’t hurt that the L*kers were having a “down” year, in ’77 (even though they still made the WCF…)

Lightning may strike twice in the same place, but that isn’t the way you should bet

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Nov 20, 2009 9:40 AM PST up reply actions  

Wait, why are we mad at Mark Stein?

I’ve been hating on Simmons, but should I be providing equal-opportunity hate tweets to Stein?

by prezofdeath on Nov 20, 2009 2:08 AM PST reply actions  

I would like to think Dave was giving a very sneaky jab at Simmons

Bill “Mark Stein” Simmons, that is.

I haven’t been reading Stein lately so I couldn’t tell you if he’s been Blazer-bashing.

put a body on 'em

by RayBourque on Nov 20, 2009 2:12 AM PST up reply actions  

Great new post topic

I’ll be looking forward to it each week. I’m actually surprised there is so much Blazers discussion at the end. I was guessing there was going to me more observations about some of the other interesting happenings around the league.

Not sure I agree AI needs starter’s minutes if he’s in the right situation. However, I completely agree that it needs to be a good team with a strong identity and leader. Is D Wade strong enough to make AI coming off the bench work in Miami? (AI may take too many Wade touches to start with him).

Great points about Gerald Wallace. I’ve coveted him but have the same concerns regarding Nic getting time and an aging Wallace, plus needing some cash to sign Oden.

Get well, Paul!

put a body on 'em

by RayBourque on Nov 20, 2009 2:21 AM PST reply actions  

Not sure I agree AI needs starter’s minutes if he’s in the right situation.

ha ha ha … you mean 38 min a night right. :)

The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out, burns out farms, and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.

by faith on Nov 20, 2009 12:26 PM PST up reply actions  

The best situation for Allen Iverson at this juncture is a team with nothing to lose, a starting spot, and ...

plenty of minutes to satisfy him. So, with that noted, the New York Knicks truly are a perfect match — even if it’s made in hell — for A.I.

Dear Paul Allen:

Fire Nate McMillan & hire Jeff Van Gundy.

Sincerely,
AK1984

by AK1984 on Nov 20, 2009 2:48 PM PST up reply actions  

rec

Superb comment, and I was more people would get on that soapbox with you.

"Woulda, Coulda, Mighta and Shoulda – the Four Horsemen of the Procrastocalypse" - Red-5

by jscot on Nov 20, 2009 6:16 AM PST up reply actions  

Urgh "wish" not "was"

I’m going to have to start proofreading again, that’s twice in a day.

"Woulda, Coulda, Mighta and Shoulda – the Four Horsemen of the Procrastocalypse" - Red-5

by jscot on Nov 20, 2009 6:16 AM PST up reply actions  

Please add an edit function when you're ruler of the world.

You can measure skill and talent with your eyes, but productivity is shown through statistics.

by austinpwnz on Nov 20, 2009 4:16 PM PST up reply actions  

No kidding

Then if I say something stupid and you respond to it, I can go back and change it and make you look like the idiot. :)

"Woulda, Coulda, Mighta and Shoulda – the Four Horsemen of the Procrastocalypse" - Red-5

by jscot on Nov 21, 2009 4:59 AM PST up reply actions  

Actually, a very limited edit function

where you could only edit if no one had replied yet, would be pretty reasonable.

"Woulda, Coulda, Mighta and Shoulda – the Four Horsemen of the Procrastocalypse" - Red-5

by jscot on Nov 22, 2009 11:45 PM PST up reply actions  

Nor was he the critical American historical figure

Jackie Robinson was. No one can honestly tell me that MJ did anywhere as close to as much for American society as Jackie Robinson.

"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely

by skywaker9 on Nov 20, 2009 9:14 AM PST up reply actions  

in my best 300 voice....
THIS IS PORTLAND!!!!!

The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out, burns out farms, and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.

by faith on Nov 20, 2009 12:28 PM PST up reply actions  

what I mean is, this is alot like asking the kid I just beat up to put an autographed picture of me in his room.

I just don’t see it happening.

The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out, burns out farms, and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.

by faith on Nov 20, 2009 12:30 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Great new feature

Dave, great new feature. I hope you can make Around the League a regular thing!

by cyberk on Nov 20, 2009 7:23 AM PST reply actions  

Great idea

Thanks for this new feature. I like your multiple ideas in one post area concept. I would say it’s kind of like the JD but with you and your usual laser focus, but the JD posters would probably posterize me.

by Gaz on Nov 20, 2009 7:54 AM PST reply actions  

Get him boys!!!

"And in the end
The love you take
Is equal to the love you make." -The Beatles

by 92wastheyear on Nov 20, 2009 8:18 AM PST up reply actions  

I have no control over the Women of the Junk Drawer

hey…that sounds like a calendar

"And in the end
The love you take
Is equal to the love you make." -The Beatles

by 92wastheyear on Nov 20, 2009 10:19 AM PST up reply actions  

I love the title, hummmm ...

But this being a family safe site is this what you had in mind?

by Gaz on Nov 20, 2009 11:42 AM PST up reply actions  

uh......no

"And in the end
The love you take
Is equal to the love you make." -The Beatles

by 92wastheyear on Nov 20, 2009 11:55 AM PST up reply actions  

re: Retiring #23

No one in any sport has even come CLOSE to redefining the sport to the extent that Babe Ruth did in baseball. And yet, you don’t see #3 hanging from center field in all 30 ballparks. If George Herman Ruth doesn’t deserver the honor, than MJ certainly doesn’t either.

How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009

by douglast on Nov 20, 2009 8:24 AM PST reply actions   1 recs

You don't think Jackie Robinson

breaking baseball’s color barrier even comes close to redefining baseball in the same way that Babe Ruth did?

"One of the bright spots of the young season has been rookie point guard Jonny Flynn, whose name sounds like he should be the lead character in a Broadway Musical. "What are you doing here, Jonny Flynn?" "Why I'm here to court trouble, and woo a girl, and build the most fantastical contraption the world has ever seen!" -- Dave, Game 7 Blazers versus Timberwolves preview

by BlazersOrBust on Nov 20, 2009 9:37 AM PST up reply actions  

I was referring to the on-field (court) aspects of the game

and also so some extent the marketing/media personality aspects.

Of course the integration fo baseball redefined the game, but not in the same way that Ruth did. Not saying it’s a lesser way, just a different way. More of a social aspect. And I think retiring 42 is and was the right thing to do. Having said that, I also think integrating baseball was more about the act than the particular man who was the first. Integration WAS going to happen eventually, whether it was Jackir or Larry Doby, or a few years later Mays or Aaron, it was only a matter of time. As it turned out it was Jackie, and he proved equal to the task.

But all that’s really beside my point. My point is to compare the way Jordan changed basketball to the way Ruth changed baseball, and in that comparison, Jordan falls woefully short.

How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009

by douglast on Nov 20, 2009 10:01 AM PST up reply actions  

I understand the differentiation now

and I agree with your original point — there’s just no way that Jordan should have his number retired league-wide, for all the reasons you adroitly laid out.

"One of the bright spots of the young season has been rookie point guard Jonny Flynn, whose name sounds like he should be the lead character in a Broadway Musical. "What are you doing here, Jonny Flynn?" "Why I'm here to court trouble, and woo a girl, and build the most fantastical contraption the world has ever seen!" -- Dave, Game 7 Blazers versus Timberwolves preview

by BlazersOrBust on Nov 20, 2009 4:09 PM PST up reply actions  

Perhaps Chuck Cooper's #11 should be universally retired?

http://www.nba.com/celtics/news/black_history_010212.html

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Nov 20, 2009 2:11 PM PST up reply actions  

more, on Earl Lloyd and Nat "Sweetwater" Clifton

http://hoopedia.nba.com/index.php?title=First_African-American_NBA_Players

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Nov 20, 2009 2:21 PM PST up reply actions  

I actually think Babe Ruth correlates well with MJ...

Unbelievable talent and media figure but not worthy of league-wide retirement.

The crux of this debate is really about recognizing an individual’s accomplishments beyond the rest of their Hall of Fame brethren. It takes a certain level of talent to get into the Hall of Fame (both MJ and Jackie Robinson had that). Beyond that however, there is clearly a difference between one’s commercial significance/contribution to society and one’s cultural significance/contribution within society. Jackie Robinson breaking through the race barrier and into MLB was a remarkable moment and culturally significant. Retiring his number league wide was how it was recognized. MJ’s commercial success was so much greater than anyone who had preceded him and set the stage for every superstar who followed him. While that, too, is culturally significant to some (especially those high-paid athletes that followed, along with all of sports marketing, apparel, sports broadcasting, etc.), it by no means on par with what Jackie did. The sports industry as a whole blew up and MJ got paid. He won’t be forgotten. Isn’t that enough?

"Do me a favor. Put your lip over your head... and swallow." Max Goldman

by clinchmobb on Nov 20, 2009 10:15 AM PST up reply actions  

So, Lebron wore #23 all these years

in tribute to Jordan, and now he is not wearing #23 anymore in tribute to Jordan (and everyone is supposed to follow). Maybe he really thinks he is a King.

by BlazerDavid on Nov 20, 2009 8:49 AM PST reply actions  

I’d quibble with the Wade/Shaq Heat team “knowing” they were going to win. But, whatever. Great, great recap.

by Vic De Zen on Nov 20, 2009 8:49 AM PST reply actions  

I’d also argue about the 94-95 Rockets. Also is anybody here sure if the Sonics that year “knew” they would win, that is before they were finger wagged out in the first round?

by blazefan1984 on Nov 20, 2009 12:07 PM PST up reply actions  

Whoops...

That’s 93-94 Rockets…not 94-95

by blazefan1984 on Nov 20, 2009 12:08 PM PST up reply actions  

Iverson should go play for the Cavs or some other competitive team, come off the bench and try for a ring. Why in the hell would he go join the Knicks? They’re a terrible team. Even if he does start it doesn’t help him accomplish his ultimate goal at all. LeBron has never said he’ll end up there next year. Does Iverson have a hunch that it will happen? I donno. But if it REALLY isn’t about the money and if Iverson genuinely wants a championship on his resume, the Knicks make absolutely no sense at all.

Sometimes a player's greatest challenge is coming to grips with his role on the team.
-- Scottie Pippen

by halo_on on Nov 20, 2009 9:10 AM PST reply actions  

I don't see it

I really don’t. I don’t think a championship contender team would start him (and still be good).

"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely

by skywaker9 on Nov 20, 2009 9:16 AM PST up reply actions  

Right

If he wants a championship, he needs to go to Boston, where KG will tell him to sit down, shut up, and come in off the bench and score a bunch when they need it on occasion.

"Woulda, Coulda, Mighta and Shoulda – the Four Horsemen of the Procrastocalypse" - Red-5

by jscot on Nov 20, 2009 9:26 AM PST up reply actions  

possible destinations for AI

a. DAL (risk stunting Beaubois’ growth; Josh Howard is supposed to be on the mend; healthy roster = minutes crunch = unhappy AI; makes Cuban’s mouth water)
b. IND (there’s an aversion to players w/ off-the-court issues; would be an upgrade over TJ Ford)
c. LAL (would work in theory but AI isn’t mature enough to be a role player)
d. MIA (Wade gung-ho enough about winning to cede some playmaking responsibilities and shots to AI)
e. NO (Paul out indefinitely; better 2 guard than Devin Brown; stunts growth of Collison/Thornton)
f. PHI (team wants to go smaller and faster; Thad Young/Iguodala can play 3 and 4, leaving backcourt of Iverson/Lou Williams)
g. PHO (imagine AI at 2, J-Rich at 3, Hill at 4, Amare at 5. Would give Nash more rest)
h. SA (Durability of Parker/Ginobili a question mark; would not work if everyone’s healthy)

I think the strongest candidates are Miami and New Orleans.

I’m hoping he winds up in Phoenix. Seven Seconds or Iverson.

"I've hacked into your brain. You're throwing a party and no one's showing up."

by ignign*kt on Nov 20, 2009 10:51 AM PST up reply actions  

im glad Por isnt on thiat list

The Dude: Hey, careful, man, there's a beverage here!

by cavejunctionblazer on Nov 20, 2009 2:54 PM PST up reply actions  

Bad Idea to Phoenix

You can’t take Channing out of the Starting lineup

"Knowledge will get you from A to B. Creativity will get you anywhere." Einstein

by Garden of ODEN on Nov 20, 2009 5:40 PM PST up reply actions  

i agree whole heartedly

The Dude: Hey, careful, man, there's a beverage here!

by cavejunctionblazer on Nov 20, 2009 2:55 PM PST up reply actions  

Wait, wait, wait!

I thought Tyson Chandler was the tool? Now it’s Bill Simmons, errr, Mark Stein….I am so confused!

I’ve got the solution: Tool of the Week in each of these features! There is always at least one bonehead we can talk about in the world of sports!

Nice feature BTW!

"Do me a favor. Put your lip over your head... and swallow." Max Goldman

by clinchmobb on Nov 20, 2009 9:41 AM PST reply actions  

Has anyone seen Martell Webster?

We had such great hopes this year for our “in-house” free agent, but he’s really yet to be a factor at all.

 Am I just not giving him a chance after a full year off, or is it indeed fair after a full preseason and 13 games into the regular season to start to expect some more production on both ends?

by Memphremagog on Nov 20, 2009 10:03 AM PST reply actions  

Webster is not doing anything any significantly different

than he ever has as a Blazer. He has always been somewhat of a bust considering the inflated views of him by many fans. He is a good guy and seems to work hard, but has never consistently hit shots despite his sweet stroke. I have no idea why anyone expected him to come back and be better than before. Players don’t improve after missing full seasons, quite the contrary.

by BlazerDavid on Nov 20, 2009 10:47 AM PST up reply actions  

Rather than judge Martell prematurely can we simply acknowledge that . . .

returning from injury without working out for a year may take another 6-10 months to improve?

Martell has shown improvement consistently over his career and still has not peaked to me. He is not a problem on the team and can add to the team in some form this year while he recovers. Expecting him to be Chris Paul or Deron Williams seems unfair to me. He has not shown himself worthy of the 6th pick in the draft in his class (and that was not his choice but the former team management’s chocie) but he has also not shown that he has peaked (else why re-sign him to an extension?). He is still an asset and not a liability.

"Either way we have two phenomenal units. I'm excited to play with either one." - Martell Webster

by lee3022 on Nov 20, 2009 10:56 AM PST up reply actions  

I was far more comfortable with Batum

in our starting lineup as a rookie than I was with Martell as a third-year player. Yes, he improved in each season, but not by a significant factor. I am not a Martell hater, but one who is realistic about his abilities. For all the disappointment I see from Blazer fans about Outlaw, I would take 10 TO’s before a Martell. I hope he changes my mind sooner than later. I want to like him as a player.

by BlazerDavid on Nov 20, 2009 11:36 AM PST up reply actions  

I want to add my own thoughts on Mr Allen

There are many who want to judge either the man or his achievements. Many appreciate his handling of his sports franchises. I have walked in a tiny portion of his path and it might be the hardest of his physical life because cancer is not controlled by power or money or knowledge. These thing help to fight the disease. But it is one of many things in life that might bring each of us to those few moments when we see control as beyond our power. As Paul Allen’s history with the disease has already demonstrated (dropping out of Microsoft to address the disease the first time) is can alter our path in life greatly.

Many wish to pray and others wish to send good wishes and all are heartfelt and equal. Thank you Paul for showing us so much of your own passion and respect for others. I join each of the others in hoping for a favorable outcome and I add my own hopes that the events sharpen your focus on the things beyond the physical to heal you completely and to give you a future and a hope.

"Either way we have two phenomenal units. I'm excited to play with either one." - Martell Webster

by lee3022 on Nov 20, 2009 10:48 AM PST reply actions   3 recs

very well said.

Great read. Thanks, as always, Dave.

by ItsMrHarris2u on Nov 20, 2009 11:23 AM PST reply actions  

I admit that my first, greatest concern, when I heard about Allen's illness, was how it would impact the Blazers

And I said so in a BE comment. I knew it was politically incorrect, but I was being honest. After all, I explained, I don’t know Allen personally, and haven’t felt much of a connection to him due to the fact that he’s such a guarded, private person. On the other hand, the Blazers are an important part of my life—a badly needed distraction from ugly realities like the economy, environmental collapse, and—yes—illness & death.

But when I saw Allen courtside on Wednesday’s Blazer broadcast—so transformed from his usual appearance—all that changed for me. Paul Allen is no longer the gazillionaire owner of my favorite sports franchise. He’s a human being—one that I feel a connection to because he’s such a passionate Blazer fan. And he’s now, quite clearly, a frightened, stricken cancer victim.

God, what a terrible disease. Best wishes, Mr. Allen.

"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla

by hurryup09 on Nov 20, 2009 12:51 PM PST reply actions  

Victim!!! NOT YET HE AIN'T!!!

N never will….

He’s gonna fight this B word like the Big Bad Boss of Our Blazers He is.

FIGHT I tell you…. ain’t no victim in these fights, only fighters….

The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out, burns out farms, and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.

by faith on Nov 20, 2009 12:54 PM PST up reply actions  

"Victim" doesn't mean you're beaten

It just means you’ve been attacked.

"Woulda, Coulda, Mighta and Shoulda – the Four Horsemen of the Procrastocalypse" - Red-5

by jscot on Nov 20, 2009 1:02 PM PST up reply actions  

true... but still...

Tell almost any cancer patient that their a victim to thier face I don’t expect they’ll be sitting around to hear more of the pesimistic drival out of a negative nancy.

The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out, burns out farms, and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.

by faith on Nov 21, 2009 2:43 AM PST up reply actions  

"Cancer victim" is fairly common terminology

If you say, “You’re a victim,” they will respond as you say, but at least over here “cancer victim” doesn’t have negative connotations.

"Woulda, Coulda, Mighta and Shoulda – the Four Horsemen of the Procrastocalypse" - Red-5

by jscot on Nov 21, 2009 5:01 AM PST up reply actions  

Neither the Seahawks or Blazers have won a title for him

He wants one VERY badly. Since we’re the best chance he’ll get one (since SEA is not good) in the foreseeable future, he’s not going to let a little thing like this stand in his way of attending the games.

"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely

by skywaker9 on Nov 20, 2009 12:59 PM PST up reply actions  

maybe it makes us play harder?

The Dude: Hey, careful, man, there's a beverage here!

by cavejunctionblazer on Nov 20, 2009 3:02 PM PST up reply actions  

Typically people (including researchers) design their study to support theri beliefs (hypothesis)

The more abstract and subjective the variables become, the more tenuous the results, until you just get self serving pseudo science which is "proof" only for those who already agree with you.
I have heard some pretty convincing to me "testimonies" of people reporting healing from non-psychosomatic physical diseases, such as HIV and cancer. I was there, I heard them, they sometimes have medical records and doctor’s reports to show. I believe miraculous healing is possible, it is a basic Christian teaching. To the skeptic, the diagnosis was wrong, they are liars, whatever. People ultimately are quite adept at fitting "facts" to their beliefs (cognitive dissonance theory). But that doesn’t change the truth, which, yes, does exist, silly philosophies to the contrary not withstanding. We all make our selection from the available philosophies of life, to our benefit, or peril.
Extended debate, while potentially interesting, way beyond current context allowances.

"Travis went all wang-dang diddly wubba SPROING wow-wow on everybody " Dave's recap, season opener

by Berkeley on Nov 20, 2009 1:04 PM PST reply actions  

Some call it softness,

others inexperience, I think you described it well, Dave, it is the team learning how to play together that is our timetable for elite competition. And not play together in ay statistical sense of assists or rebounds. Rather, to be a whole on the court that can bend and adapt to the pressures of competition. In this particular area, the Blazers still have a long way to go.

This year has given me hope that we have the talent. Signing Andre Miller has given me hope that the organization understands what’s needed.

I guess now, we just have to get lucky that this collection of players has what it takes mentally and emotionally to work together towards the goal of a championship.

In any ultra-competitive endeavor, the mental aspect is usually what separates the winners from the rest. I have not yet seen the signs of this mentality on the Blazers, although I think Andre Miller and Juwan Howard are pointing the young fellas in the right direction.

"The only 'Advanced Metric' that matters is what you see with your eyes." -Timbo, Nov., 2009.

by Blazin' on Nov 20, 2009 1:09 PM PST reply actions  

My thoughts:

PA- Get Well soon. You are this team, without you, it will never be the same.

Allen Iverson needs to retire while he still has a fanbase. At the rate he is ruining teams, his reputation for being one of the best scorers of all time, will be buried under the label of worst teammate/player of all time. The NBA needs to rid itself of A.I. and the shabby image he brings to the sport. Yes, I dont like A.I., in his prime or now—hes just all about himself. I wouldnt even wish him on the Knicks or the L*kers.

Picking up on Tinsley is a terrible idea. Why do teams think its a great idea to pick up these washed up old vets that cant run game if they wanted to? The Grizzlies have to rival the Redskins for terrible team management. I mean cmon, they are like the old JailBlazers now! You got the A.I. fiasco, Heck they even have ol Zach “Stripclub” Randolph, or was it Zach “punch a teammate in the eye and break his eyesocket” Randolph, I cant remember. Okay maybe thats all a little harsh, I actually like alot of the Grizzlie players, especially Conley, Gay and Mayo, they are all good players.

Some trades just leave me feeling like—well, no big deal. Some trades just lack the big names to draw much attention. Jax wanted a trade—he got it.

Lebrons ego need to be put in check, if thats even possible at this point. To suggest #23 be retired for all teams is just ridiculous! That slaps every team in the face that wasnt the Bulls. Sorry Lebron, you arent god quite yet, atleast win a championship before you pull a stunt like this. And shake hands with your opponents when they hand your A$$ to you!

Uhhh, Who is Bill Simmons?

Gerald Walllace? I say Nay Nay Nay! Who wants to add more unfamiliar players to our rotations that are still trying to gel, that ought to fix everything! If anything we need to consolidate! Get our rotations established, dont ruin them.

If the Blazers win it all this year, I will personally pay for Dave and Bens dinners at any restaurant in Portland they choose! Not saying I dont want them to win it all, but even though I love to stretch reality when it comes to my teams amazing abilities, I just have a feeling that we will need at the very least 1 more season to really be contending for the title. I do think its possible for us to play for the west title but to win it all is still just inches away.

The Dude: Hey, careful, man, there's a beverage here!

by cavejunctionblazer on Nov 20, 2009 1:21 PM PST reply actions  

get well soon Paul

oh, and can I borrow a million dollars? I have this idea to turn cheese whiz into gasoline, it’s revolutionary I tell ya, revolutionary. Changing the world one overweight snackmuncher at a time…

"No disrespect to Jeff Blake"

by Eat Politicians on Nov 20, 2009 6:26 PM PST reply actions  

I have this idea to change beans into "natural gas"

"Woulda, Coulda, Mighta and Shoulda – the Four Horsemen of the Procrastocalypse" - Red-5

by jscot on Nov 21, 2009 5:03 AM PST up reply actions  

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