When will it be time time to play both Oden and Pryzbilla at "4" and 5?
Joel Pryzbilla and Greg Oden on the same court, functioning in unison, is a beautifully scary possibility. The both of them would eat up all rebounds near 8+ feet of the hoop, seamlessly passing off defenders, swatting shots like the made men they are, and Oden carrying the offensive load between the two, and even Joel scraping up an extra basket or two.@ a pairing of 15 minutes standard, 20 they are a deciding difference in the game at the time, and you dominate the defensive paint and respectably compete at the offensive end of the floor. With Outlaw out, Howard is not going to be able to player major contributing minutes, and how long can we expect Lamarcus to log 40+ minutes a night. Something needs to be done.
Now what would need to happen for such a paring to be successful?
I see a couple varying factors:
Greg and Joel Both would need to stay out of foul trouble. Seeing as how this set would be used primarily once significant portion of game time has passed and Nate can make a solid judgment on each player's foul situation.
Lamarcus would need to demonstrate he effectively could rebound and control the paint in playing center for a lineup with possibly Howard (Outlaw would need to be healthy but also able to better affect shots inside and defensive round) at PF, Webster at 3 (again rebounding, put the ball on the court effectively, has already demonstrated that he is a well above average 3 at the shot block), Rudy (stroke it, keep up D and Rebounding), and (either PG).
And / Or L-train could learn to stretch the 2-1-2 / 3-2 zones. I Think he has the laterally quickness and clearly the length to be a trend setter at his potion. Blake and Miller would need to demonstrate they could better close, but Bayless could use such a zone to his advantage with his closing speed / aggressiveness.
Dante Cunnigham would need to prove that at least some of those preseason comparisons to the Trout are true (Or at least prove he can rebound in the NBA next to a big man like the Pryz).
Given some time and practice the two could have a unique / physically domineering lineup, for at least a small but significant portion of the game. Przybilla will need to find deserved minutes the longer Oden is able to stay on the court.
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When will it be time?
Never. They are both Centers. That’s the position they play. It’s better to always have just one of them on the court at a time. The twin towers idea rarely works. It would only be used in dire emergency, like Lamarcus and Juwann missing the game bus.
Dogs have Owners, Cats have Staff.
Well it seems feasible to play two point gaurd together...
However, I find it to be a bad idea. There is a traditional setup of positions for a reason.
"I don't always read blogs regarding the Trail Blazers
...but when I do... I read Blazers Edge."
- resurrect_ha28
by FiveOhThree-RipCity!! on Nov 17, 2009 4:29 PM PST up reply actions
We did it in the Denver game for a few minutes...
I recall the results not being very notable.
If these two had a more polished offensive game, it would have some legs (much like Duncan/Robinson). But since Greg is not nearly the level of either Duncan or Robinson and Joel plays like he has boxing gloves on, I just don’t see it happening regularly because it puts too much pressure on the perimeter players to score.
"Do me a favor. Put your lip over your head... and swallow." Max Goldman
by clinchmobb on Nov 17, 2009 4:45 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
...too much pressure on the perimeter players to score
In any case, we need to figure out how to relieve some of the offensive burden we have put upon our perimeter offense as our current paint game is weak compared to the contenders. Rudy, Webster, and Bayless can all score when given the opportunity.
Oden’s continued improved passing is also an offensive encouragement of note.
by BatumShakalaka88 on Nov 17, 2009 5:51 PM PST up reply actions
REC
Joel plays like he has boxing gloves on
"I don't always read blogs regarding the Trail Blazers
...but when I do... I read Blazers Edge."
- resurrect_ha28
by FiveOhThree-RipCity!! on Nov 17, 2009 4:54 PM PST reply actions
supposed to be a reply to clinchmobb
"I don't always read blogs regarding the Trail Blazers
...but when I do... I read Blazers Edge."
- resurrect_ha28
by FiveOhThree-RipCity!! on Nov 17, 2009 4:54 PM PST up reply actions
I think the main problem with this is
finding a time when it would be favorable. If we play Cleveland and they throw Shaq and Z at us, that could be advantageous. Except Z just lingers around the perimeter like Sheed when Shaq is in the game so LMA would be better suited to match up with Z when the two CLE C’s are in together.
Playing the Clips with Kaman and Camby could be another time when it’d be worth a try. But i think for the most part its not really worth trying. Only to be used in emergency situations (LMA fouled out, Juwan feeling arthritic). It wouldnt be good to see Greg/Joel trying to keep up with a PF.
I am a fan of this
This would have saved our bacon last night v. Atlanta, when we couldn’t get a rebound to save our lives. Those offensive boards cost us the game (and two silly Martell fouls to start the 4th quarter…).
I think it’s a good tactical move. I wouldn’t rely on it strategically, but I think you can play both at the same time – especially if we’re going into Brandon Roy isolation play mode on offense
M, period. Fresh, comma.
I agree
Good tactical move to be used on occasion when the situation fits. Limited minutes.
We used it last year against Boston when Brandon was out, too.
There are some PFs Greg can defend. More often, we would use zone defense.
"Woulda, Coulda, Mighta and Shoulda – the Four Horsemen of the Procrastocalypse" - Red-5
Greg + Joel =
a slow pace getting back on defense, very limited outside shooting, fewer ball handlers, high turnovers, reduced fast break potential, slower man movement in the half court, two very poor perimeter defenders, and lots of fouls.
The best players only try to, "do it all," themselves when it is a playoff necessity or, on occasion, to put on a show. There is no need to belabor the point!
Big men are not the primary party responsible for getting back quickly to prevent the fast break, yes Joel is not near the shooter that LMA is or Juwan for that matter but with the outside shooters we will have in the game (top 5 last year) we will dominate the offensive glass for kick outs, yes but since when is your pf and center position expected to be strong ball handlers, turnovers could certainly be an issue but the question is would they create additional offensive opportunities at a higher rate than their increase in turnovers, Joel is considered a good outlet passer but it would certainly not be an LMA running the court, slower man movement in the half court is what the blazers are as a teem, and well i don’t think Nate would be expecting great perimeter defense from the 4 and 5 (besides are guards supposed to almost always fight through the picks?).
Thanks for the response, got some wheels turning, glad to be able to briefly respond.
by BatumShakalaka88 on Nov 17, 2009 9:47 PM PST up reply actions
Gregzilla = a mutant that the basketball gods decided not to go with.
They are both probably better off the way they are. I once considered what the results might be of genetically combining Joel and Dirk. Good idea? Then I realized that Joel’s bad hands and shooting stroke were probably dominant traits in him and that Dirk’s softness was probably a dominant trait as well. Yikes! Long live Joel. Long live Greg! They are very good just the way they are.
The best players only try to, "do it all," themselves when it is a playoff necessity or, on occasion, to put on a show. There is no need to belabor the point!
Let me focus on the following part of your fan post.
“Lamarcus would need to demonstrate he effectively could rebound and control the paint in playing center for a lineup with possibly Howard (Outlaw would need to be healthy but also able to better affect shots inside and defensive round) at PF, Webster at 3 (again rebounding, put the ball on the court effectively, has already demonstrated that he is a well above average 3 at the shot block), Rudy (stroke it, keep up D and Rebounding), and (either PG).
And / Or L-train could learn to stretch the 2-1-2 / 3-2 zones. I Think he has the laterally quickness and clearly the length to be a trend setter at his potion. Blake and Miller would need to demonstrate they could better close, but Bayless could use such a zone to his advantage with his closing speed / aggressiveness."
If I’m coaching the opposition, I’d go with a 1-3-1 zone defense to counter a lineup featuring LaMarcus Aldridge at the 5 and Juwan Howard or Dante Cunningham at the 4.
http://www.coachesclipboard.net/131zonedefense.html
Since Aldridge and Howard both rely heavily on pick-and-pop plays from the elbows, sealing off the high-post would be key to stifiling them. Aldridge, who isn’t entirely soft like Howard, still doesn’t present a major threat inside, so the weak man-to-man interior defense in that set wouldn’t be of major concern.
Smart, timely rotations would help cover the need for solid weakside help defense and defensive rebounding, too, while allowing second possessions via offensive boards wouldn’t be a big threat — so long as guys box out in a fundamentally sound fashion — with Greg Oden and Joel Przybilla resting their rumps on the bench.
On the perimeter, it’s safe to assume a bench unit would consist of Martell Webster at the 3, Jerryd Bayless at the 2 — unless Brandon Roy is back from a hopefully short breather — and Rudy Fernandez continuing to try his hand at the 1 on offense. Yet, with a 1-3-1 zone defense, aggressive rotations would hopefully close out quickly on any corner three-point attempts by the 3, clamp down on any iso sets from the 2 trying to driving to the basket, and contain Fernandez as he cuts in motion after dumping the ball into Bayless or Roy’s hands after bringing it down the court.
All in all, almost any lineup that Portland uses with Aldridge at the 5 should be countered by the opposition with a 1-3-1 zone defense.
Dear Paul Allen:
Fire Nate McMillan & hire Jeff Van Gundy.
Sincerely,
AK1984
Isn't the 1-3-1 more of a College / High School defense?..
It would be hard to zone up the bottom of a 1-3-1 in the NBA with the defensive 3 second rule… Same as the 2-3. Both defenses call for a man to patrol the low key area. It would be difficult to execute…or get away with in the NBA.
not really.... the defender has to be within arms reach...
as long as he had a body to reach out and touch… his position would be fine.
but yeah… they do it alot in highschool mostly due to a lack of height to play center and traditional power forward.
The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out, burns out farms, and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.
Yeah, it's a specialized zone defense that should only be used in the NBA to thwart small ball.
Dear Paul Allen:
Fire Nate McMillan & hire Jeff Van Gundy.
Sincerely,
AK1984
I like it for short spurts.
However, they seem to have foul troubles.
My favorite teams are the Blazers and any team that is playing the Lakers.
They should be played simultaneously NEVER.
They occupy the same space on the floor (6 feet in from the hoop) and if they both run simultaneously, that means LMA comes in at Center to relieve them, which is almost always a defensive disaster.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
defensive, late game strategy
If Nate’s in a situation where he needs a late game “stop” (and rebound) and he has a time out remaining to substiture an offensive player back in for Joel after the change of possession, then I’d prefer the “twin towers lineup” so Przy can help defend the paint and secure the rebound
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
prob is foul trouble
but id like to see greg back up la while pryz plays center backing up greg. we need another big.
The time is coming soon...
Just about the time when Nate figures out that Howard is no longer an NBA-level talent and isn’t a capable of being an every game back up at the four.
The Blazers either have to let Cunningham give the back up four a shot or try to work a three man rotation some of the time. Back up four is and will continue to be the biggest weakness on the roster. Millsap would’ve been a perfect addition. I don’t want to throw stones at KP, but it was short sighted to blow every dime of cap room on Miller (a luxury) and go bargain basement at back up power forward.
Q: Is Greg favoring his knee?
Frye: He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors.
i dont agree
i feel juwan howard can still provide quality minutes in short spurts of perhaps 6-12 minutes at a time

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