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Do top NBA teams need just 3 offensive options to win?


This is something I've thought about a lot after seeing a lot of the posts here early in the season regarding Brandon and LMA taking so many shots and how the Blazers and Nate responded to those posts (not really responded but the offense cleary changed to mirror the thoughts of many of the posters' thoughts here).

While I was reading those posts I thought about all the teams that have won championships since the ealy 1980's and ,one thing they all had in common was 2-3 players dominated the shots taken.  I can't think of any championship caliber teams where there were more than 4 all-star caliber offensive talents on a squad.  The Celtics and Lakers of the 80's were clearly the most overall talented squads offensively as far as number of quality offensive players.  But really, the Bulls of Jordan had Jordan, Pippen and a bunch of role players.  The Rockets had Hakeem and an older Clyde and a bunch of role players.  The Spurs had Duncan, Parker, Ginobli (off the bench) and a bunch of role players.  The Lakers were Kobe and Shaq.  The Celtics were Garnett, Pierce,  an old Ray Allen and a bunch of role players.  The Lakers last year were Kobe, Pau and a bunch of role players.

So my question is, (after watching the offense flourish with Roy and LMA taking fewer shots for 1 game against the TWolves and then flat-out struggle for most of the last 5 games):

   Can you win titles in the NBA with your best player appearing to be afraid to take too many shots and your second best player not taking many shots on most nights? 

Sure, you can beat up on teams like Memphis and Minnesota.  But can you beat Denver, LA, Atlanta, Boston, etc?

I don't know the answer but I do know Portland was one of the top 2-3 offensive teams in the league last year with Brandon and LMA being options 1 and 2 and the "role" players taking shots here and there to keep defenses honest.  I thought last year, this team only had to learn to play hard-nosed and aggressive defense in order to become a contender.

Their defense appears to be greatly improved.  The offense the last few games appears very, very lost.  Am I wrong?  Frankly, I would go back to having Brandon and LMA take shots like they did last year and have Rudy be that 3rd scorer.  So Brandon, LMA, and Rudy would take 50 or so shots a game between them in whatever distribution made sense based on the opponents defense and their obvious skills at knowing when to shoot and when to pass.  Everyone else gets shots when left open. 

Frankly, Andre and Blake are taking way too many shots for my liking and it's killing the offensive numbers the last few games.

I'd just like to hear some thoughts.

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I'm with you

Roy and LMA need to take more shots, Roy especially. Last night against ATL it was something that I thought contributed to the team losing. Down the stretch in the 4th and OT the Blazers need to have Roy, LMA, and maybe Oden shooting the ball everytime down the court. Roy should be avg 20 shots a game, not 14 or 15. LMA needs 18 shots a game, Oden should get 10-12 per game.

The Blazers are playing well, so i am not really upset at this, but it is something that I worry about.

by usmcr3049 on Nov 17, 2009 8:41 AM PST reply actions  

But those shots need to come out of the offense

Roy and LA need more shots – but it seems likes most of their shots come from 1on1 iso type sets which stacks the defense against them.

by Bdawgg on Nov 17, 2009 9:36 AM PST up reply actions  

Think playoffs

In the playoffs, an opponent has time to game plan and set up defensive schemes to limit your first and second options. When that happens, you need legitimate third and fourth options. You don’t need to go to them all the time, but you need them there to keep the defense honest.

We lost in the playoffs last year primarily because we didn’t have enough other threats to keep the defense honest, so Houston was able to slow our main guys often enough to beat us.

This year, it is clear, we are working on developing a few other threats. When it comes time to win, we’ll still go through Brandon and LMA, and hopefully Greg on occasion. But we’ll also have other threats that will keep the defense honest.

By the playoffs, the offensive kinks will have been worked out, and we will be a machine that will do some serious damage. We won’t lose in the first round this year, unless we get zapped by injuries. I don’t know if we’ll win the second round or not, but we’ll give it a good run, I expect.

And the reason we’ll go further is two-fold — first, our defense will be better, and second, our offense will be harder to stop because we’ll have a few more threats that have to be respected. Not offensive all-stars, perhaps, but legitimate threats.

"Woulda, Coulda, Mighta and Shoulda – the Four Horsemen of the Procrastocalypse" - Red-5

by jscot on Nov 17, 2009 10:02 AM PST reply actions  

Thats exactly right

Case in point: Agent Zero going 1 vs. the world might work in the regular season for the Wizards – but I don’t think it scares the Celtics at all come playoff time.

We have plenty of good scorers on the roster – we just need to hit our rhythm.

by Bdawgg on Nov 17, 2009 10:44 AM PST up reply actions  

dont go through greg to win

They will foul him and pressure freethrows arnt his thing.

by tevisthe4th on Nov 17, 2009 11:32 AM PST up reply actions  

Top teams *have* two or three reliable options

Other than Roy and Oden from time to time, nobody on the team can get a high quality shot on their own

Blazer Fan

by leeroyjenkins on Nov 17, 2009 10:49 AM PST reply actions  

That they do...

and not just during the first 42-44 minutes, even at crunch time.
Until LMA demands the ball in the last 2 minutes, we’ll continue to struggle scoring and be (relatively) easy to defend

"I play, Coach stays. He goes, I go." - Jimmy Chitwood

by DucRider on Nov 17, 2009 3:54 PM PST up reply actions  

The biggest problem I see for the Blazers right now

is that they still don’t know where the money is. And by that I mean they are searching for who gets shots, as a team they do not know who should be shooting the ball. If you look at their stats you can see the confusion:

Roy is avg 15 shots a game, 2 less than last year (almost 1 more 3 per game)
LMA is avg 12.7 shots a game, 2.6 less than last year
Oden is avg 6.8 shots a game, 1 more than last year
Rudy is avg 5.8 shots a game, 2.3 less than last year, (1.5 less 3’s than last year)
Blake is avg 7.4 shots a game, 2 less than last year, (same amount of 3’s as last year)
Outlaw is avg 9.2 shots a game, 1.3 less than last year, (same amount of 3’s)

Those were the main offensive last year, everyone but Greg is is avg less shots than last year. Now to the new additions.
Miller is avg 9.3 shots per game, (1.3 3’s)
Webster is avg 5.8 shots per game, (2.8 3’s)

The Blazers are avg 95.3 ppg, and giving up 88.1 ppg. They’re currently 3rd in defense allowing 96 points per 100 poss, but middle of the pack in offense avg just 104 points per 100.

I would speculate that Nate needs to change the offense to get the Blazers most efficient scorers the ball more. And those are Roy, LMA, Oden and Rudy. All of these players should be shooting more for the Blazers, Outlaw’s injury should help this happen as LMA should avg closer to last years 37 mins per game, (he is only avg 32.5 so far this year) and Rudy should see an increase in his minutes getting him close to the 25 mins per game he saw last year, (currently he is at 21.8) Roy needs to be featured a bit more, and I feel that will come as he continues to get comfortable playing along side Miller. As Oden continues to improve, his teammates will continue to look for him and his shots should increase naturally as the season goes forward.

Ofcourse if these 4 should increase their production, it has to come from somewhere. The Blazers should run a bit more than they have been, especially at home but that would only see a marginal increase in total possessions. It appears to me that both Webster and Miller are shooting too much for this Blazers offense to be efficient. Both are shooting below 40% on the year, and while they shouldn’t stop taking open shots, both have been forcing a few shots during the early part of the season. Those forced shots, and the forced shots we are seeing at the end of the shot clock are dragging the efficiency of the offense down. Getting rid of these type of shots, and replacing them with more efficient shots by better shooters will go along way toward getting this team’s offense back on track.

With all that said the team is doing really well defensively this year, some of that is playing bad teams, but the Blazers are helping them look really bad by playing really good defense. I want to see this team become an elite team, and to become that team I feel they need to have their best offensive players taking the majority of the shots during the game. As of last night, Roy, LMA, Oden, and Rudy are taking 40.3 shots and avg 49.4%, while the rest of the team is taking 36.3 shots and avg 39.9%.The “big 4” need to be taking more than 53% of the shots during a game, 55-60% would be more like it, especially if Blake, Webster and Outlaw, (when he returns) can’t find their rythem soon.

by usmcr3049 on Nov 17, 2009 1:04 PM PST reply actions  

Reading back through

I forgot to say that Blake’s shots need to be reduced as well, he is shooting 7.4 times a game, (4.8 of them from 3) but hitting only 35% from 2 and 3. He needs to find his stroke quickly or he loses his value on the court.

by usmcr3049 on Nov 17, 2009 1:07 PM PST up reply actions  

Question:

Score 15 points from the foul line.

Score 85 points from the floor.

Blazers avg. 88 possessions a game. So to get the points just from the floor you need to make 43 out 88 which is 49% from the floor. Ouch!! That’s the problem with a slow pace: you need to shoot well to score more than you allow on a consistent basis. Only Oden and Aldridge are shooting at that pace.

What offensive scheme would get the blazers to 49% shooting at the same pace?

by 7677maniac on Nov 17, 2009 1:58 PM PST reply actions  

you're not wrong,

you’re just not seeing the whole picture. There are offensive players, and then there is the offense. You overlook the importance of the offense, as if it were just a sum of statistics of individual offensive performers.

From my perspective, a championship caliber offense has as many weapons as are needed to get the job done.

Is there a rule for how many players that is? Absolutely not.

It depends on the character of the team. Most importantly, IT DEPENDS UPON WHAT OPPOSING DEFENSES GIVE YOU.

In the case of our Blazers, I thought the lesson of last year was that our offense was not resilient enough. Too predictable. Too static.

So I interpret our shifting offense to an attempt to incorporate a more dynamic, less predictable offensive scheme centered around our new point guard, Andre Miller.

Is this the right answer for Portland? I hope so. If the team commits to Miller, it should make for a more resilient offense, because Andre can more easily adapt to a defense that is shutting down individual weapons.

Balance. If other scorers are doing damage, defenses will shift, giving Brandon more opportunities.

"The only 'Advanced Metric' that matters is what you see with your eyes." -Timbo, Nov., 2009.

by Blazin' on Nov 17, 2009 2:54 PM PST reply actions  

Earlier

stories that had the blazers coming up with more offensive sets for Roy indicates to me that the coaching staff thinks Roy isn’t getting the ball soon enough or at the right place on the court to make him more efficient scorer and facilitator.

So how do the Blazers use the pass into the post to Oden or LA and have time enough to utilize Roy when those options are cut off?

by 7677maniac on Nov 17, 2009 3:41 PM PST reply actions  

while roy

didnt start the season shooting well he was on a tear as far as getting to the line. Enter 3 guard lineup and miller and its come to a screeching halt. Why kp and nate decided to mess with brandon’s playmaking by bringing in the unnecessary miller i dont know.

by BBG on Nov 17, 2009 6:31 PM PST reply actions  

Depends on the quality of the scorers ...

If you have two scorers like Shaq and Kobe who are capable of going for 25-30+ points per night, capable of scoring on anyone and being consistent under pressure and against tough defensive opponents … then you’re fine with just two guys.

But if you have less qualified go-to scorers as your top two guns then you need a third. This is the category that I think the Blazers fall into due to LaMarcus Aldridge. Brandon Roy does enough between his own scoring + ability to create for others but I don’t think Aldridge does enough to be an elite scorer. A good-to-very good scorer but not elite. I don’t think Aldridge is prolific enough (18-20ppg) or efficient enough (52-54% true shooting percentage) to be considered an elite scorer. As such, I think the Blazers need a third option who can create their own shot and generate 16-18+ points per game to become an elite offensive team.

If the Blazers do not find that third scoring option, then, I think opposing team’s with very good-to-elite defenses will continue to cause a lot of trouble for the Blazers offense come playoff time. Like the Houston Rockets did last season.

by NBR on Nov 26, 2009 10:40 PM PST reply actions  

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