Quick: Blazers Expanding Offensive Variety for Roy
Jason Quick writes that the team is working on new plays but that they may not be used against New Orleans...
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Now, with the "ice" series, Roy will get the ball in different areas of the court and instead of having either Greg Oden or LaMarcus Aldridge come and set a screen for him, the entire Blazers team will clear out the middle of the court. This allows Roy to break down his man.
"Throughout the whole season you have to use new stuff," Blake said. "Teams get used to what you are running so you have to throw new stuff in there. That's what this is: Brandon can pretty much beat most of the guys in the NBA 1-on-1, and this is just a way of us to take advantage of that."
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about 2 years ago
Ben Golliver
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the "roy takes to many shots/is selfish" vs. "roy isn't really needed for this offense to do well"
controversy continues! day 2!
its not roy = selfish vs. roy isn't necessary
its roy = selfish & superfluous vs. roy is the key to championship aspirations
Roy might not be as irreplaceable as Odin, but he is still the best player on the team, and it isn’t close
by blacknoiseNW on Nov 12, 2009 11:14 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I think you need to explicate the difference between irreplaceability and and best player on the team
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
Strange article in some ways...
Is it really news that the team is developing new plays? I may be ignorant, but aren’t they tweaking and updating their approach all the time – what makes this particular change newsworthy?
Not that it’s not interesting – but is there something particularly significant about this strategy update that is different?
"whoever scores the most points is probably gonna win the game"
Probably just Quick got more information about it than usual.
Also he has to write about something. I liked it.
Disclaimer: everything I know about basketball I learned on Blazersedge.
Me too. I'd love to see more stuff like this from Quick
It sure beats the guesswork about players’ psyches and deciphering body language.
Well, this would qualify as actual news rather than dramatization
and sensationalism. Tracking what the team’s doing on a BBall level. It’s just so rare that when we hear it, we think this sounds odd.
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
Running ISOs for Roy is a change?!?!?!?
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Nov 12, 2009 11:01 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
I know, this is just odd.
Haven’t we already run the 1-4 set to death?
"B-Roy is the best shooting guard I have played against"
-Ron Artest
by premthegrem on Nov 12, 2009 11:08 PM PST up reply actions
not lately. blazers have QUICKLY moved from roy-centric to trying to find ways to fit roy into the offense.
really unprecedented actually. can’t remember a change like htis before.
right,
but isolation is going to be out of the flow of this new offense, which seems to be working.
"B-Roy is the best shooting guard I have played against"
-Ron Artest
by premthegrem on Nov 13, 2009 12:14 AM PST up reply actions
Yeah but I think they're making more of an effort to make an offense out it
with other people involved, starting with a Roy iso.
Disclaimer: everything I know about basketball I learned on Blazersedge.
Sounds like McMillan is trying to be a coach and not just a motivational speaker.
This makes me nervous. I just hope he doesn’t try to get too clever with it.
“Coaches have mishaps too, just like players.” -Steve Blake
Yes they do Blake. Yes they do.
by Nick Van Excellent on Nov 12, 2009 11:02 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
considering Roy has always been a point guard (the iso is the definition of "point")
and is giving the ball up as much as shooting, lately. He has been the best on the team at setting up bigs for easy shots at the rim, and he does it by breaking down the opponent off the dribble
has been the best on the team at setting up bigs for easy shots at the rim
I’d say Brandon now has some “competition” for this title, from #24
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
the hotter the competition gets, the better
I’d like to see a lot more from Miller, though.
by blacknoiseNW on Nov 13, 2009 4:21 PM PST up reply actions
This, to me, is the money quote from this article...
Roy said after Thursday’s practice. “But the biggest thing out of all of this is I don’t want anybody to feel pressure to get me shots. I say keep playing the way we have been playing: Be efficient and just win. I want everyone to stay with sharing the ball and passing it. That makes us more dangerous.”
Super glad to hear this, after being a bit anxious reading the title of this post… Glad to hear BRoy is on board with the new (Greg Oden) era of Blazer hoops…
Odin doesn't have anything to do with it (directly)
this is the Miller effect compounded by having 9 legitimate scoring options in a 10-man rotation.
Unless you want to give Odin extra credit for being a better finisher than Prz
by blacknoiseNW on Nov 12, 2009 11:27 PM PST up reply actions
Greg is reason for the change. We’re posting him up and playing off the doubles that he causes. Less isos in post basketball.
free bayless
by Cablinasian on Nov 12, 2009 11:36 PM PST up reply actions
I disagree
You have to run iso’s for Odin to draw the double teams. The Blazers do not do that very often – although they do run those sets.
Neither has Odin been significant in the pick and roll (mostly because only Roy has good pick and roll skills, but has been notoriously reluctant to feed a rolling big man. Roy was much more prone to either go to the rim or kick out to LMA or a 3-point shooter, in the past).
Overall, though, the primary reason that Roy is taking fewer shots (the point of my post) is as much the fact that more scoring options are available than just Odin.
by blacknoiseNW on Nov 12, 2009 11:59 PM PST up reply actions
huh? We ran at least ten plays into the post to Oden against Minnesota. That is a huge reason for Roy’s decreased usage. Oden’s usage has been very high in the past few games.
That is direct causality. Oden has a higher usage rate causing Roy to have a lower usage rate. There are other factors, but Oden is the biggest.
free bayless
by Cablinasian on Nov 13, 2009 12:10 AM PST up reply actions
I think blacknoise is saying we're running iso's but they're post iso's rather than
perimeter iso’s. Correct me if I’m wrong.
"B-Roy is the best shooting guard I have played against"
-Ron Artest
by premthegrem on Nov 13, 2009 12:16 AM PST up reply actions
blacknoise is arguing that Roy is getting less shots not due to Oden, but due to the “Miller effect.”
I argue that the reason, as visionary2 articulated, is an emphasis on Greg Oden in the post. While blacknoise claims that Oden has not been in the post much, I feel that his high usage rate and various possessions in the post show quite clearly that his higher usage is taking away from Roy’s touches.
free bayless
by Cablinasian on Nov 13, 2009 12:20 AM PST up reply actions
Yeah.
The “Miller effect” is basically someone finally feeding the low post.
Miller is really, really, really, really, unselfish.
If Roy said, “Hey Miller, please stop scoring completely. Give me the ball as much as humanly possible”, he would probably just shrug he shoulders and do it. He is literally the anti-Allen-Iverson in so many ways. To me, he doesn’t even look like he’s trying to score all that much. Maybe even to a fault. He could average 25 a game if he really pressed, but I think he seems pretty content trying to control the pace and keep everyone happy. Which is probably impossible on this roster.
by Nick Van Excellent on Nov 13, 2009 12:41 AM PST up reply actions
Odin's usage is up
I’m not disputing that. But the context of this discussion was Roy’s shots. I’m saying that Roy’s touches are still there, but he is passing up shots to more than just Odin. Everyone’s usage is up relative to Roy.
I’m also saying that the number of Odin post iso’s are not a significant impact on Roy’s game. Everyone is looking for Odin more, including LMA, guards, wings etc., but the offense when running best is taking what the defense gives, and the defense gets exposed the most when the guards break the defense down – increasing the number of looks the post players get when the defense scrambles to shut the drive down.
This year, Roy is giving the ball up after getting inside at a much higher rate than usual.
by blacknoiseNW on Nov 13, 2009 1:14 AM PST up reply actions
Odin is avering .8 shots per game more than last season
Roy’s shots per game are down about 2 (2.1).
Is some of that due to Oden? Yes. But at 6.6 shots per game, the Oden era has not “arrived” (Roy and others shoot a lot more)
by blacknoiseNW on Nov 13, 2009 1:38 AM PST up reply actions
Lies, damn lies, and statistics...
Oden’s (that’s with an e) shot attempts may only be .8 more, but the usage of him is completely different. Guys (and not just Miller) are now looking for him in the post! I don’t know what percentage of his shots last year were from put-backs, but my eyes tell me it was a lot, perhaps >50%. This year, I suspect that ratio so far is much lower.
And of course the Oden era hasn’t completely “arrived” yet, but if he continues the play of the last three games for the next decade, historians will look back at this stretch of games as the beginning… (That’s part of what a Visionary1… err… 2.. does – predict the future).
Now, having said that, the Oden era is getting a HUGE boost from the still vrey underappreciated and underrated (in Portland) Andre Miller. LOVE that guys game…
mobile post.s can suck
suffice to say “Odin” i.s my favorite nick
by blacknoiseNW on Nov 13, 2009 11:49 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
have to strongly disagree with this:
Roy has good pick and roll skills
Roy is an excellent dribble penetrator. He is also very good at dumping to a big man near the rim. Do not confuse these two things with pick and rolls skills. He does not have good pick and roll skills in my opinion. He dribbles way too wide and not forcefully enough around the pick, usually completely negating it’s effectiveness. Additionally, he almost never passes to a roller, even when they are open. This allows the defense to completely ignore one of the two threats created by the pick and roll.
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
roy's track record executing the pick an.d roll is poor
however, he is bette.r this year – and remains the only guard on the team with all three essential pick and roll skills: 1) jump shot 2) driving ability 3) passing ability.
Miller has two of three; Blake has a different 2; Rex has yet a different pair.
roy hasn’t been the best at running the pick and roll – but he certainly should be.
by blacknoiseNW on Nov 13, 2009 11:40 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
I agree he has the potential to become a very good pick and roll player
he just hasn’t got there yet. He has the skills to do it. He’s just got to do two things:
1) consistently come off the pick at a much better angle, going hard toward the basket (this puts enormous pressure on the big defender to pick him up)
2) show a willingness to hit the roller, making him a true triple threat.
accomplishing (1) will lead to (2), as right now the big defender rarely has to leave our pick-setter, since Roy goes so wide around the pick. a quick show, then the big goes right back to our pick setter. And to be fair, our pick setters (Oden and LMA) need to do a better job of making themselves a target too.
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
totally agree
It frustrates and befuddles me to see that he handles pick and roll so poorly. The way he handles it has become quite simple – wait for the pick, hesitate, trapped, forced to pass out.
Ok i know it’s a little exaggerated because occasionally this play result in a Aldridge/Outlaw pick and pop, or an outside open shot. But just like McMillan said in Quick’s article, most of the time it results in Roy being trapped. Somehow he is just reluctant to use his speed to turn the corner. Does anybody know why???
Two on one
Basically, we are saying we are open to the idea of letting me go one-on-one more.
“Basically, we are saying we are open to the idea of letting me go one-on-one more,”
Disclaimer: everything I know about basketball I learned on Blazersedge.
Personally, I think the 1-4 isolation can be very effective if executed properly
Roy initiates at the top of the key by breaking his man down one on one. Spot up three point shooters on either side and post players on either side and now you have four scoring options, depending on who rotates to help on Roy.
It accomplishes the same thing as the pick and roll – except with even more options.
The pick and roll, pick and pop, off-ball screens, back door cuts, two man post/3-point shooter are the basic Blazer offensive sets and will still be run a lot more than the 1-4 iso. However, when all the Blazer players are engaged in the offense, the 1-4 iso has the potential to be the most undefendable set in the NBA (due entirely to the quality of Roy’s supporting cast).
more one-on-one iso for Roy?
at first I was a little worried. but then was glad to see these:
In fact, the idea came from a play earlier this season when Roy found himself isolated in front of the Blazers’ bench during a home game against Minnesota. With Roy preparing to breakdown his man, Aldridge cut through the middle of the lane. Roy hit him with a pass and Aldridge scored while being fouled.
The idea, then, is for the isolation plays to spread out the defense to allow Roy more room, while also creating lanes for Aldridge or Oden to flash through the lane.
“Basically, we are saying we are open to the idea of letting me go one-on-one more,” Roy said. “And hopefully this helps the team out, especially with Greg or LaMarcus cutting. It can get us easier baskets.”
I actually remembered that play during a home game against Minnesota. It starts at 0:57 in this video. Notice that Miller cut across the paint to draw attention and you can see Aldridge read the defense and find the cutting lane for an easy basket. I was kind of impressed with this play and now certainly happy to know that it’s a new set.
In fact I can think of a small variation – Aldridge or Oden doesn’t really need to “cut” deep into the paint, they can suddenly emerge from the weakside and post up their defender. When he gets the ball it should be an easy post-iso opportunity.
This was the part that I liked
Interestingly, the new isolation plays are a throwback to Roy’s second season. At that time, however, McMillan scrapped the plays because he felt it killed the team’s movement because everyone cleared out and watched Roy go to work.
That’s when he started putting the ball in Roy’s hands more and started calling heavy amounts of pick-and-roll sets to get more people moving.
But now, with an older and more savvy team, McMillan feels Aldridge and Oden can read the spacing and make better cuts. Also, he has given Roy the freedom to call for a pick off an isolation.
We’ve been talking about the Blazers needing to “feed the ball to LMA and Oden when they’re on the move towards the basket.” since July, at least. This was the main reason why Portland targeted Hedo (in theory) because he had shown the ability to do this with Howard, in Orlando. It’s nice to hear that Roy wil be giving his teammates eaiser shots off the dibble, and not always looking to score at the basket, himself. This should make a huge difference; the Blazer’s halcourt offense will be that much more difficult to defend.
Ice = ISO?
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Roy
needs to be the primary ball handler. I think that is when this team is most dangerous. The only person who should be coming off screens to hit a jumper is Martell. Either trade Miller or put him on the second unit. Its amazing to see how people want to label him as selfish when i look at boxscores and see the Wades and Kobe’s putting up about 23 shots a game. The blazers didnt lose to the rockets because roy had a great series they lost because they didnt have a 3rd scorer behind roy and lamarcus. Now Oden is emerging and roys shots shouldnt have any effect on that. Even kobe and shaq shared the ball each putting up a ton of shots a game.
This is so mistaken
Which takes the most energy for Brandon? Taking the ball and going one on one, or curling round a screen, getting the ball,and hitting an open jumper? Obviously the latter.
The more ways you can beat the other guys, the better. We can always go back to putting the ball in Brandon’s hands. Meanwhile, I don’t want him getting banged up driving the lane against Minnesota and Memphis, or for the whole game against other teams.
"Woulda, Coulda, Mighta and Shoulda – the Four Horsemen of the Procrastocalypse" - Red-5
have to strongly disagree with this
we saw what happens last year when our offense becomes heavily predictable and based on Roy isolations. Being multi-dimensional is going to be key for us, and allow us to utlize all of our offensive tools.
I am NOT in the Roy is selfish crowd at all – but I’m a big believer in team-oriented offense featuring ball and player movement that puts pressure on the defense all over the court. We should be keeping defenses guessing as to where our attack is coming from, not letting them constantly prepare for it.
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
That's a big change for Nate - Replacing a two letters.
From Iso to Ice. Maybe he thought reducing the amount of syllables would make the team more efficient.
Nate's gonna start calling Brandon
“Bra”
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
the team's plan
Last year in the playoffs the Rockets tried to smother Roy and no one else on the team could do anything. This year they’re trying to get everyone but Roy going early on. Kinda like in football where they always say you run to setup the pass…
If LA is hitting, Greg demands a double team down low and you have Rudy, Trout, Martell stroking it from outside, Roy will have tons of room to operate.
I'm a little confused, blacknoise...
when you say this in reference to Roy,
He has been the best on the team at setting up bigs for easy shots at the rim,
and then later this reference to Roy,
because only Roy has good pick and roll skills, but has been notoriously reluctant to feed a rolling big man.
That seems contradictory to me. So he’s been the best at setting up our bigs but is reluctant to do so? I would argue that he hasn’t been the best at setting up the bigs (Dre has been ‘the best’ and the team as a whole is getting better) but would agree he is reluctant to feed them on the pick and roll and often shirks the pick altogether.
"Do me a favor. Put your lip over your head... and swallow." Max Goldman
hence the 1-4 isolation set
the pick and roll is the traditional method of creating either a double team that can be exploited by the guy left open or a mismatch that can be exploited by either player.
The 1-4 iso is intended solely for Roy to beat his guy off the dribble without the benefit of the pick and either score if no one rotates over, drop the pass off to the big if a post guy rotates, or kick out for a J if a wing rotates over.
No one on the team has been good at the pick and roll, especially the high pick and roll. Turgoklu’s skils as a point in the pick and roll was the exclusive reason he was targeted by management in the offseason. Miller can run it, but he sucks so bad with the jump shot that defenders are going to go under the pick every time and dare him to shoot it. He hasn’t been able to make them pay, so far.
When both Miller and Roy have been best at feeding the bigs is when they break their defender down without benefit of a pick.
by blacknoiseNW on Nov 13, 2009 4:28 PM PST up reply actions
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