Cowherd, you make no sense
by HeyUncleOllie! on Nov 12, 2009 1:19 PM PST
Email
PrintThis morning, Colin made the statement that Durant over Oden is a no brainer. He claimed that we Blazer fans get excited when Oden does well against people who can't play, and that we are myopic. He claimed that Greg doesn't move well. (Did he not see Greg moving last night?)
He went on to support his claim that Oden would never be an offensive force, and said that Wilt Chamberlain once scored 100 points in a game. Could Cowherd have picked a worse comparison to support his argument? No. It's a terrible comparison that no one else on Earth would genuinely make.
Wilt is arguably the most impressive statistical big man ever to play. (I still think Shaq has it on him when considered in context). I'm no historian, but who did the 7-1, 275 pound Wilt Play against? Did he play against Yao, Dwight Howard, or Shaq? Apart from 6' 9'', 215 pound defensive wizard Bill Russell, Wilt was fairly uncontested in the early part of his career, which began at 24. Wilt was featured in Philly's offense and took more than 30 shots a game, many of those over three or four guys at a time. His opponents were tiny compared to him. On the other hand, when Greg draws double teams, both guys are bigger than Russell (though not likely better). Oden has taken fewer than 6 shots (hitting 57% of them) a game through his first 70 games in the NBA. 70 Games, Colin. Bad comparison, Herd.
Durant was a 17 shot / 43% guy through his first 80 games. He's also featured in OKC, and his team did not make the playoffs. He's also the same size Bill Russell was. Colin, would you ask Durant to guard Oden? Bill Russell would have been asked to do just that.
But what I really have a problem with is not Colin's claim that Oden will never be an offensive force, it's that he does so without consideration of context. If Oden causes most NBA teams to address the potential threat that he poses to the interior, thereby causing the perimeter to open up for Blazer shooters, then he is an offensive force. Period. When he is out, the offense must change to adapt to the change. Force is in this context, after all, about exerting influence.
What center would you take over Oden, Colin? Dwight Howard is the obvious answer.
Howard presents a more compelling comparison. How do the numbers compare?
Through his first 82 games, Howard played 32.6 minutes a game, shot 52%, scored 12 ppg, blocked 1.7 shots per, and grabbed 10 RPG.
Oden's numbers after 70 games? A slim 21.8 minutes, 57.3%, 9.0 ppg, 1.3 blks, and 7.2 rpg.
I try to find another center in order to make another comparison, but I can't seem to find anyone Greg's age who measures up.
Colin is the typical diagnostician who offers little in the way of big picture analysis. Had the Blazers taken Durant, Portland would have Joel as its starter. When was the last time teams collapsed from the perimeter to defend Przy? When was the last time a team dominated the league with a small forward as their best player? Would Brandon Roy be B-ROY playing alongside Durant? Would Durant be Durant playing alongside of Roy? Where would this leave LaMarcus? Something would have to give. At center, Oden is more valuable in the NBA economy.
I for one can see what Oden is going to do. Sure, he might not throw down 20 against Howard. But he'll be a handful, and Howard will have to defend him. This will mean he'll spend less time patrolling the key. How many times do they even play each other? Twice.
Face it, 'Herd. Oden was the right pick, and going forward, he'll be a handful.
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Durant is pretty good, right now he's a better player...
Of course since we all have crystal balls and live in Portland suddenly Oden is the clear choice.
Blazer Fan
On the other hand Cowherd is horrible
He was here, he is there.
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on Nov 12, 2009 1:25 PM PST up reply actions
+92
Cowherd is a moran (as the saying goes)
"And in the end
The love you take
Is equal to the love you make." -The Beatles
by 92wastheyear on Nov 12, 2009 2:09 PM PST up reply actions
He knows...it is the joke off those guys holding up the sign "... morans!"
*Unless KP has a secret plan that makes this statement incorrect.
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I remember the sign.
When/where was that?
My favorite teams are the Blazers and any team that is playing the Lakers.
by OCBlazerFan1 on Nov 13, 2009 7:30 AM PST up reply actions
Erin Moran was Joannie on Happy Days
She loved Chachie.
dinasour type of guys choir boys
by mittsabishy on Nov 13, 2009 11:32 AM PST up reply actions
Hahahahhahhahhha! You give him too much credit calling him a nerd.
If he were a nerd he’d do a better job of analyzing the statistics.
"Aneurysm".
When Outlaw wins a game on a last-second shot, it’s called an "annthefaneurysm". QualityPie
Yes, leave Cowturd alone!
I'm a little confused by your tactics
by oderiferous emanations 74 on Nov 14, 2009 2:17 PM PST up reply actions
Better player?
I actually don’t think he’s a better player right now.
If Oden is only a 10-10 center who plays defense then he is still better than Durant is right now. Seriously, I don’t get too thrilled by a rich man’s Kevin Martin. (Or a poor man’s Tracy McGrady)
Durant doesn’t even need to play great defense, but until he learns to become a playmaker and an able passer he is WORTHLESS. I would rather have a Price/Battier type of small forward and build around Westbrook or something.
Durant is like a really likable, skinny, Zach Randolph. His numbers are worthless because he doesn’t make his teammates better.
by Nick Van Excellent on Nov 12, 2009 2:31 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
right now, I'd rather take outlaw instead of durant...
N i wanted durant before the draft.
Happy I’m wrong often so others can be right :)
The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out, burns out farms, and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.
by faith on Nov 12, 2009 9:43 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Really?
I think Oden contributes more to a winning game, but Outlaw’s not better than Durant for this team. Just place Durant in his role as gunner off the bench (which is not to say I’d put him there, just making the comparison), and we’d be significantly better. Even though Trout’s working more on D and grabbing an increased number of rebounds, Durant still rebounds better and is likely to play better D once his games start mattering.
And games mattering probably makes a significant difference in the way Durant plays. It’s much easier to play consistent D in a close game than one that’s a blowout.
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
I'd take Durant over Outlaw
100 times out of 100.
"It's Our Time":http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O99POVJfglY
by Storyteller on Nov 13, 2009 11:10 AM PST up reply actions
collectively and at this moment given durant can't hit the broad side of a barn these days.
I’m sure he’ll get better but ….
for this team right now, I’ll keep my outlaw, is all I ment I think.
The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out, burns out farms, and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.
We don't need accuracy from Cowherd.
Any of the national media guys that cover all major pro and college sports just don’t dedicate much time to the issues that, to us, seem all consuming. I wouldn’t expect them to either. Oden vs Durant is a sound bite, a blurb and a passing thought. Durant supporters will love it as much as you hate it.
If every media personality only gave level headed and unbiased analysis after careful and thorough consideration it would be really boring.
The cowards never started
The weak died along the way
Only the strong survived
They were the Trailblazers
Too true...
Still Cowherd is a jerk. I cant wait for the day Oden is nominated for finals MVP and we can all watch and listen to Cowherd, eat a pile of you know what, from a real herd of cows…
It'd be sort of interesting at this point
considering how thoroughly poor news reporting and opinionating is now. Of course, it’d get boring in the future, but for now, it’d feel like getting the inside scoop, like something new and truthy hit you. i’d love it.
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
I don't extend the idea to all news reporting.
I would love to see unbiased reporting in the paper, on the radio and the evening news. I would love to see more honest answers from politcal leaders across the spectrum. I wouldn’t mind more honesty and reality in most aspects of daily life and work.
But I draw the line at sports. It not real life and doesn’t need to follow the same rules. Sports is driven by emotion, gut reaction and illogical support or hatred of players, teams, decisions, coaches, refs, etc. Sports is entertainment and an escape. It is an excuse to be an idiot for the day without consequences tomorrow. The reality of sports is only what I create it to be in my own life, and thus it can have very real effects such as raising my blood pressure, and yet I don’t need to measure it by and strain it through the same fundamentals on which the rest of my reality is built.
Sensational, provocative or unintelligent sports commentary is legitimate because sometimes I get to agree with it.
The cowards never started
The weak died along the way
Only the strong survived
They were the Trailblazers
Bottom Line: Cowherd doesn't WATCH sports as much as he looks at himself in the MIRROR.
Colin is a pretty good radio personality, and has an impressive vocabulary… but he is KING of EGOmaniacs and loves more than anything else the sound of his own voice. I really admire the fact that Colin was married until ESPN hired him, then when he knew he was going to be MORE than regionally famous he kicked his wife and family to the curb so he could stroke his EGO by trying to take advantage of his radio fame. I don’t respect the man, but I do acknowledge he is a runs an “entertainment” show that keeps people listening.
There is NO WAY a guy like Colin sits down and watches all the sports and players that he is commenting on. Sure, he probably gets his pee-on’s to send him some highlights and clips of what players are doing, but unless you are watching games you shouldn’t be acting and projecting like you are the smartest human on Earth encompassing all subjects. I hope none of these Blazer ever gives that schmoe the time of day in interviews. Cut his ties to Portland, he is a D-Bag.
by Portland Dynasty on Nov 13, 2009 3:33 PM PST up reply actions
In a vacuum?
Wilt wins in a vacuum. When you consider the context you might argue that Shaq was better.
Hmmm
In a vacuum, Wilt does win. I meant to write the opposite. In context. . .
by HeyUncleOllie! on Nov 12, 2009 1:31 PM PST up reply actions
I think Shaq would've done to Wilt
what he did to Howard last night, if the two of them had met in their prime
unless the rules/refs did not permit Shaq to do it
there’s a reason his nickname is “the deisel”
an even better matchup would’ve been Shaq versus Unseld.
Immovable force, meet irresistable object (I “reversed” these on purpose, BTW)
Deisel, meet tree stump
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Why waste time in putting thought into refuting someone
who doesn’t put any thought into the nonsense he spouts?
"Woulda, Coulda, Mighta and Shoulda – the Four Horsemen of the Procrastocalypse" - Red-5
by jscot on Nov 12, 2009 1:39 PM PST reply actions 8 recs
Exactly.
By and large Colin’s opinion means little to nothing. People tend to forget that writers and commentators like Colin Cowherd and Bill Simmons rely on controversy or bold claims to enhance their product and attract attention. If you are looking to either of them to give you balanced and objective analysis, you are wasting your time. Entertainment and time wasting is their main use, not useful insight.
Plus I can’t listen to Cowherd for more than 5 minutes without wanting to jam a pencil into my ear in order to block out his whiny voice. I have always wondered how anyone can be an avid listener of his, when his voice is so utterly annoying.
by resurrect_ha28 on Nov 12, 2009 1:47 PM PST up reply actions
Good Question
I’d say Colin’s statement this morning, as I kill time taking care of my young son who is home with H1N1, is the proverbial straw. I like to think. I like to write. So, not a waste of time. Also, I listen to the MSP. Herd gets my ear during commercials.
But, I will say that I do indeed understand that provocative statements keep radio guys in business, but I don’t see a response to his statement as being any more or less a waste than if I were responding to say, a forum post on this site, or an article written in a newspaper.
I will say, however, they fielded phone calls after that reflected his thinking, and that is probably what got me going more. (Plus they had a really inflammatory song about Oden’s so-called failure).
by HeyUncleOllie! on Nov 12, 2009 1:54 PM PST up reply actions
hey, best wishes for your son.
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
Don't worry
My comment wasn’t really about your post, but about the idiot to whom you were responding. I respond to idiotic comments on this site all the time, too.
Hope your son is doing better.
"Woulda, Coulda, Mighta and Shoulda – the Four Horsemen of the Procrastocalypse" - Red-5
Yes I mean with that voice he must have had a sarcastic guidance counselor that told him
he had a future in radio. Regardless of the content how do they let that voice fly?
Because. . .
He is the mouthpiece for a popular sentiment. Like many popular sentiments, the absence of a retort makes it as good as correct.
by HeyUncleOllie! on Nov 12, 2009 7:02 PM PST up reply actions
If you have ever seen Cowherd via his stream while doing his show you really want to punch him in the face.
Yes his facial expressions and body language go right along with his voice. I always believed that in order to do radio you have to have a huge ego. Cowherd is perfect for it.
Colin Cowherd on 6-24-09
"San Antonio has officially moved past the Portland Trailblazers for the next two years" (this after the Jefferson trade)
"You can’t just sit back and rely on letting your young players develop"
"Greg Oden has been a disaster the last two years, and the front office knows it"
"It's Our Time":http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O99POVJfglY
Not one of those things is true. I will admit that this isn’t what anyone wanted from oden the past 2 years but going into the draft everyone said he would have the issues that he has had. He was always going to be somewhat of a longer term prospect.
Same with Durant, everyone knew he could score, but he isnt a team leader at all.
I hope I can get a bunch of championships, like 15. " - Greg Oden
“You can’t just sit back and rely on letting your young players develop”
I think the Blazer’s front office agrees with this, to a point: hence the Hedo pursuit and the Miller/Howard signings.
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Disagree
They will let the young core develop. But, to go deeper into the playoffs, they needed the veteran leadership that Dre (and Juwan, off the court) have been providing. Letting your young guys develop, and adding veteran missing pieces, is a proven formula for success in all pro sports.
the above statement said they would 'just sit back and rely...'
if that were literally true, there would’ve been no pursuit of Hedo, and no reason to sign Miller
of course they will develope a core. The big question is: how many young players are ‘in’ that core? Who are the long-term keepers and who will be the assets to acquire the final pieces of the puzzle? Of the current 15-man roster, maybe 7 will be on the “finals” team
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
i thought they
had as well until i finally saw how old they are. Duncan looks like a shell of his self.
Cowherd, like Simmons and Canzano is a highly entertaining person...
that is capable of enticing emotion and evoking debate but not very good at all at anlyzing talent and picking winners.
I prefer to think of Cowherd as a loud mouthed jerk.....
……now that you mention it, I sort of think the same about Clownzano, a decent writer who is good at spotting an angle but who wastes his talent by being a controversy whore. Neither Cowherd or Canzano offers any consistent insight into sports.
by upper left corner on Nov 12, 2009 2:07 PM PST up reply actions
Canzano and Simmons are a clear cut above -
Charlie Rosen & Colin Cowherd. I won’t click on links leading to these last two guys. Like jscot said above, you are wasting your time giving this guy attention.
Canzano (a dying from cancer homer) and Simmons (a boston homer) often have no idea what they are talking about, but can be wrong with style.
*Unless KP has a secret plan that makes this statement incorrect.
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I like Simmons.
He’s funny, and if Oden turns into a beast he will probably be the first to admit he was wrong.
He already admitted he was wrong about Aldridge and I’m not even sure he WAS wrong about Aldridge.
by Nick Van Excellent on Nov 12, 2009 5:32 PM PST up reply actions
Yup.
I don’t like Simmons, but I don’t hate him either.
He can be absolutely wrong about stuff, kinda often, but he is clearly a charismatic fan whose opinion’s can be fun, and sometimes insightful, to read.
For me, I have enough friends who have such entertaining opinions that Simmons adds more of something I have plenty of.
*Unless KP has a secret plan that makes this statement incorrect.
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He said he was soft and overrated.
Now he admits Aldridge is a “keeper”.
by Nick Van Excellent on Nov 12, 2009 9:27 PM PST up reply actions
I just looked it up. Really back-handed, but better than nothing.
“Note to Portland fans: You were right, I was wrong. He’s a keeper. Even if he reminds me so much of Charles Smith that I wouldn’t be surprised if they lost a key playoff game some day because LeBron blocked his layup three straight times at the buzzer.”-Bill Simmons
by Nick Van Excellent on Nov 12, 2009 11:11 PM PST up reply actions
Well that wont happen since Aldrige is totally absent on offense at the end of games.
Sub Outlaw in that sentence.
Whaddayaknow
He thinks we’ll be in the Finals.
"Woulda, Coulda, Mighta and Shoulda – the Four Horsemen of the Procrastocalypse" - Red-5
Or he thinks Lebron is coming out West.
by Nick Van Excellent on Nov 13, 2009 1:03 AM PST up reply actions
I've had this nightmare that the L*kers let K*be slip in FA this year
and pick up LBJ, which keeps their window open for the next ten years and give LBJ management that knows how to surround a player with a team.
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
Even if they let Kobe go
they won’t have cap space to offer the max. It would have to be a sign and trade.
Can both teams sign and trade, so it would be Kobe for LeBron? That would be interesting.
"Woulda, Coulda, Mighta and Shoulda – the Four Horsemen of the Procrastocalypse" - Red-5
why would the cavs want kobe
on a max deal? It doesn’t make sense for them. Kobe wouldn’t want to go to Cleveland, and why would the Cavs trade the most dominant player in the game for a player who’s slightly less dominant and on the decline?
If it is that or lose LeBron for nothing
the Cavs would jump at it.
But Kobe wouldn’t want to go there.
I don’t see LeBron going to LA, I was just ruminating.
"Woulda, Coulda, Mighta and Shoulda – the Four Horsemen of the Procrastocalypse" - Red-5
yeah
actually as for “going to LA” going to the Clippers would make a lot of sense for various reasons (market size, weather, Blake Griffin, cap space, chance to define the franchise), but Sterling singlehandedly makes it a terrible situation.
Maybe if Sterling gives him an option to buy the team
"Woulda, Coulda, Mighta and Shoulda – the Four Horsemen of the Procrastocalypse" - Red-5
I don't read Rosen much, but I thought his analysis of the San Antonio game was spot on.
It was just one game and you can’t draw conclusions from it, but he did a good job of breaking it down.
And it was one article, but Rosen’s analysis was more insightful than Simmons’ nonsense that I’ve read. (I almost wrote inciteful, but that would work for Simmons or Canzano better.)
Yeah, Charley Rosen gets a slightly unfair bad rap around here.
Rosen oftentimes makes curt assessments that completely miss the mark, but he’ll also hit the nail on the head occasionally. I definitely value Rosen’s opinion on basketball over that of Bill Simmons, but that’s just me.
Dear Paul Allen:
Fire Nate McMillan & hire Jeff Van Gundy.
Sincerely,
AK1984
Meh
I value your opinion more than I value either of theirs, and you get tons of things wrong.
"Woulda, Coulda, Mighta and Shoulda – the Four Horsemen of the Procrastocalypse" - Red-5
by jscot on Nov 13, 2009 12:58 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
As (non)backhanded/blunt as it gets!
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
Yeah, I was pretty proud of that one
"Woulda, Coulda, Mighta and Shoulda – the Four Horsemen of the Procrastocalypse" - Red-5
that's not very nice now
is it?
"The only 'Advanced Metric' that matters is what you see with your eyes." -Timbo, Nov., 2009.
supposed to be reply to Storyteller.
Oops.
"The only 'Advanced Metric' that matters is what you see with your eyes." -Timbo, Nov., 2009.
After 70 games
Greg is averaging 9.0ppg not 5.9 (that is his fga per game)
Sucking at darts is not a super power
Cowherd is not very smart
However, the vast majority of NBA GMs would take Durant now. That’s just reality. Oden’s foul trouble and injury history would be enough to scare off most GMs.
Oden is showing that he can be an elite Center if he gets rid of his foul problems. Durant’s already shown he’s an elite scorer, right now. Oden can end up the more valuable player if he gets to the point where he can play 35 mpg.
even 30mpg is going to be huge
but yeah, 35 should be the goal.
The whole Oden/Durant thing will probably vary over time – like any opinion poll. It started heavily in favor of Oden on draft night 2007, shifted heavily in favor of Durant after Oden got Micrfracture, stayed there during all of last season, and is just now maybe starting to creep back a bit towards the center of the line. By the end of this season, I would expect it maybe to be a 50/50 equation.
10 years down the road, I’d put money on Oden being the popular choice again. Not to take anything away from Durant, who is a special talent. But 7 footers who can greatly impact a game on both ends of the floor are just too rare and valuable.
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
by douglast on Nov 12, 2009 2:07 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
I don't think that your contention is necessarily true.
Any GM who has truly been paying attention would see Oden’s ENORMOUS upside potential. He is really starting to have an impact as a defender. The original logic of choosing Oden remains true: dominant big men are the rarest commodity in basketball. I don’t think it is a stretch at all to suggest that Durant is much closer to his ceiling as a wing player in his third year with tons of minutes vs. Oden as a big man early in his second year coming off a major injury.
I am not arguing that Oden is playing better than Durant, NOW, but rather that you don’t have to be a homer to suggest that Oden will have the greatest impact long-term.
by upper left corner on Nov 12, 2009 2:15 PM PST up reply actions
I don't think you can say that a "vast majority of NBA GMs would take Durant now"
There is no way to prove that or refute that without a poll of NBA GMs.
I'm no Sam Smith fan, but he reported at the team USA camp that he couldn't find a single GM or scout that would take Oden
I don’t think he made that up.
I also don’t think Oden’s done enough to change the minds of more than a few of those guys, yet.
Obviously, I don’t know for sure, but I’m pretty confident in making that statement.
But. . .
That could be due to the fact that most GMs are on a short leash. Also, most GMs don’t have 54 win teams with as much potential as Portland. Besides, with Durant, the Blazers would be the Suns circa 2007. Great team, but not going to win it all in the absence of a big man who can turn shots away and command the defense.
by HeyUncleOllie! on Nov 12, 2009 2:32 PM PST up reply actions
Yep, they need to win that year or lose their job
Durant puts butts in the seats now, not when the next guy takes over.
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
I agree most would take the now safer pick of Durant
But Sam Smith makes up crap every column, you’d be hard pressed to find a less reliable writer. Maybe Peter Vecsey.
M—
or..................
COLIN COWHERD!?!?!?!?!
*Unless KP has a secret plan that makes this statement incorrect.
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Yeah, yeah...
Makes up crap every time he talks.
But I think you’re correct. I don’t think cowherd is literate.
*Unless KP has a secret plan that makes this statement incorrect.
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Durant is a phenomenal player
But here are the numbers that really matter to me:
41 to 54
vs.
31 to 20 to 23
And this year
6
vs.
4
"It's Our Time":http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O99POVJfglY
by Storyteller on Nov 12, 2009 2:03 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
what Greg said, this summer
“All I know is my team made the playoffs in my first year” when he was asked about the Durant comparisons
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Nov 12, 2009 2:51 PM PST up reply actions 8 recs
Awesome response.
*Unless KP has a secret plan that makes this statement incorrect.
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I;m not in love with pure scorers. You add Durant to the Blazers
does that mean the Blazers will now score 137 points per game? Or does it mean that the shots and minutes will get redistributed and they will still score about 100 points per game, give or take?
If your pure scorer is not a good a defender as the guy he replaces, how good is the team going to be?
The league is full of scorers. The league is not full of guys who can stand in the lane and make people change their mind about going to the rim just by being there.
by raoulduke on Nov 12, 2009 2:06 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Exactly
Rudy, Martell, Brandon, LaMarcus, Travis. . . Do they all score all the time? No. Do any of them drop the hammer in the lane? No.
by HeyUncleOllie! on Nov 12, 2009 2:08 PM PST up reply actions
Coward makes snap judgements
about things all the time. He does so with little to no evidence to back it up, just his oversized ego and self opinion to back it up. Then he will defend that position to the end in spite of mounting evidence to the contrary. He does this with a lot of topics, not just Oden and the Blazers. Ever since I realized this, I very rarely listen to him anymore and when I do, what he says means very little to me and I just chuckle to myself and think, “What an idiot…”
I still can't get past his last name
it reminds me of Arnold Horshack from “Welcome Back, Kotter”
I used to call him “College Football” Cowherd because that’s all he ever talked about, every month of the year, while he was still in the Portland market
The “Spanning the Globe” segment is OK, but the rest of his program is dreck
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
We have all heard Herd state his case
We all know actions speak louder than words. Greg is finally beginning to make some noise, thus Colin starts to sqeem and rushes back out to defend his well known, long standing position. Somehow I dont think Colin and his runny nose will have the last word on this. This could get really interesting.
Good ol’ Chuck Swirsky can only hope that it does.
The Oden Era, Day 873
The problem is that I don't think anybody is arguing that Oden will ever be an offensive powerhouse.
Offense makes money, defense wins championships.
Ask the Lakers. Ask the Celtics. It doesn’t matter if you score 110 a game if you give up 115. There’s a reason D’Antoni has never won a championship. There’s a reason Don Nelson has been a 3x coach of the year, yet never won a championship.
As far as a fit for the Blazers, I’m comfortable in believing that Oden was the right choice. Is he the best scorer? Absolutely not, but loading the team with scorers does little to help your chances for success.
Only recently has Durant started taking heat for his defense. Henry Abbott and John Hollinger were wise to point out Durant’s horrendous +/- during his Sophomore campaign.
There is absolute validity to the argument that Durant is the better player, I wouldn’t disagree. Does that mean I’d rather have Durant?
Nope.
"Ain't nothin' in this world for free."
by Arby on Nov 12, 2009 2:32 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
I will - argue that Oden will be an offensive powerhouse, that is!
We can argue about how you define powerhouse, but I’m more convinced than ever that Greg will become a 22+ pts 14+ rebound guy on a regular basis, with 3 or 4 blocks AND assists to go with it.
That, to me, says offensive powerhouse. And I’m going to email Cowturd every day to remind him how wrong he was about GO when he gets there…
Combine that with defensive presence… we’re talkin’ parades…
by Visionary2 on Nov 12, 2009 7:50 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
he doesn't have to be a powerhouse (as in - start every set and he beats every double team)
but he has a major impact on overall offense. Send two guys at Durant and you completely disrupt OKC.
Send two guys at Odin and 8 other Blazers feast. Don’t send two guys and Roy feasts. Switch off Odin and he feasts. Mismatch Odin and he feasts.
by blacknoiseNW on Nov 12, 2009 11:40 PM PST up reply actions
Makes for Good Radio and contains an element of the truth
If Cowherd said that (anyone) should have been drafted over Lebron there would be no discussion here. We would all silently agree that he is wrong and not bother to respond.
On Oden and Durant the fact is here we simply do not know and it is (impossible to prove at this point) who was the better pick. That is why it makes for good radio – it fires people up, creates controversy and makes people pay attention.
Once we win our first championship with Oden this discussion will become mute.
Yes
And Colin’s tacit assertion was that Oden is a bust, not that Durant is simply better at this point. Which is why I felt compelled to make myself feel better by writing this.
by HeyUncleOllie! on Nov 12, 2009 2:43 PM PST up reply actions
Poor DeJuan Blair
this guy is going to have his hands full guarding Oden, Gasol, and Lopez in the rookie-sophomore game.
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
don't worry
Tyler Hansbrough will have his back
I wonder if Rudy will play if he’s selected?
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Blair has his hands full trying to guard bonnr in practice.
because he stinks at defense.
dinasour type of guys choir boys
Thank you.
What the Blazers need is MORE rebounding and LESS defense. Yep, Blair was a perfect fit.
by Nick Van Excellent on Nov 12, 2009 4:24 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
right
because Victor Claver and Jeff Pendergraph are helping us SO much with defense this year
These are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others. -Groucho Marx
I think Pendergraph is probably a better defender than Blair, from what we've seen. Which isn't much.
Claver is a money saver, so the rules don’t apply. He’s wasn’t the best player available. He was the best player available to stash overseas.
by Nick Van Excellent on Nov 13, 2009 1:41 PM PST up reply actions
No, he would not.
Spacing. Spacing. Spacing.
Fat little pudgy guys who can’t shoot super well don’t fit next to Joel Przybilla. I would take Travis over Blair every day of the week for THIS team, and I really am not an Outlaw fan at all. Even if he was on the roster in place of Outlaw I would want Blair behind Juwan Howard on the depth chart. No joke.
He just doesn’t fit, at all. Actually… his crappy knees would probably feel right at home.
by Nick Van Excellent on Nov 13, 2009 2:50 PM PST up reply actions
I disagree.
Joel doesn’t need space— he’s not going to get the ball anyway. Our 2nd unit could use a 2nd rebounder— as good as Joel is, he’s doing it by himself. We’re like 7th in Defensive Rebound rate, and 5th in O-reb rate. Blair could help us be a lot better in both. Also, unlike Joel, Blair is effective in putting back his offensive rebounds for points.
Blair is a much better player than Outlaw, and Outlaw is not such a great fit that it makes him more valuable than Blair would be.
I re-disagree
Two guys who rebound, but have no post moves can’t help space a team.
(Blair does score, but only scores when he gets putbacks. When he tries any moves after receiving a pass he gets swatted hard.)
Outlaw is a much better player than Blair. There are only 4 players on the Blazers who can create their own shot.
dinasour type of guys choir boys
It's not a case of space for Joel
Part of the problem with running a player like Blair next to Joel is that there won’t be space for anyone. The defense can totally clog the middle, and no one can get to the hoop. All you would have is perimeter shots.
Blair would be effective next to Greg once Oden gets that 10-12 footer going. That would mean at least one of the bigs could pull his man away from the bucket a little bit. But next to Joel, it just wouldn’t work. Three perimeter shooters and two big lugs to try and get the long rebounds — that would be your second unit.
Blair would also be effective next to LMA, if we only had one center — LMA could slide over to center, and the two would make a pretty decent front line.
"Woulda, Coulda, Mighta and Shoulda – the Four Horsemen of the Procrastocalypse" - Red-5
if he truly "stunk" at defense
Pop would be sitting Blair’s wide backside down on the bench, instead of playing the rook
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Yeah, some people here really like the kid, and others don't.
I think we can leave it at that permanently.
If a few years down the line Blair is ripping it up, then we can safely say that Pritchard gambled on the losing side.
Personally, I wish him well. Blair has heart and seems to be a respectful guy too. It sucks that he has those knees. In the long run, I hope he has a decent NBA career and can still walk when he is fifty.
Talk about for the love of the game…!
*Unless KP has a secret plan that makes this statement incorrect.
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what if?
If a few years down the line Blair is ripping it up, then we can safely say that Pritchard gambled on the losing side.
what if he is like reggie evans.
piling up boards, but giving up buckets to everybody.
how many winning teams ever rely heavily on an undersized wide load rebounder like maxsiell, millsapp, evans, jackie slater, big dog carr etc.
And don’t say Barkley, because he was totally different.
dinasour type of guys choir boys
That is unfair to Blair.
You don’t know if in the future he will be giving up boards to everyone.
Our Blazers will be in their prime in three years. If Blair is doing awesome then, Pritchard will have gambled on the losing side. It still could have been a wise choice, but the odds are beaten every day on single bets.
*Unless KP has a secret plan that makes this statement incorrect.
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edit: "buckets" not "boards"
*Unless KP has a secret plan that makes this statement incorrect.
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yes, you are right
If it turns out that Blair is really good at rebounding, and really good at scoring inside, and really good at defending the post, and stays healthy, and figures out his weight problem, and doesn’t bring up red flags on his personality tests, and rotates better on help side defense than Pritchard will have made a mistake.
A very costly mistake that he should have been able to see. Blair is really good at one thing the Blazers are already great at.
dinasour type of guys choir boys
by mittsabishy on Nov 12, 2009 10:13 PM PST up reply actions
His other option at pf is ian menomena
doo doo, duh doo doo.
dinasour type of guys choir boys
by mittsabishy on Nov 12, 2009 7:49 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
McDyess?
I like the Spurs stable of backup PFs better than Portlands. As much as Bonner gets maligned, the Blazers don’t really have an equivalent “banger” like him. Coach Pop has demonstrated that he knows what it takes to construct a playoff roster, not just a “regular season” squad
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
McDyess has been starting at C
I think he’d get tired also being the backup PF.
dinasour type of guys choir boys
by mittsabishy on Nov 12, 2009 10:15 PM PST up reply actions
we have high-volume, long armed shooters that don't play D
Oden gives something we don’t have: Defensive force that can run the fast break
bayless leaves over my dead body
thanks for starting Andre
Healthy Oden
+Roy and LMa = Championship. Durant + Roy and LMA = squabbles about shots.
if KD was playing for Nate in Portland
he would be complaining about “doing a Portland” and being stuck in the corner shooting jumpers
Durant would be his generation’s Dale Ellis
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Nate McMillan would've used Kevin Durant in Portland like he used Rashard Lewis in Seattle.
Suffice it to say, I’m more than happy that Greg Oden is in Portland.
Dear Paul Allen:
Fire Nate McMillan & hire Jeff Van Gundy.
Sincerely,
AK1984
Greg Oden was the right choice for the Portland Trail Blazers
Portland already had a ball dominant, high scoring wing (Brandon Roy). Brandon, while an imrpoving defensive player, is hardly all league. Portland also had a hghly skilled, but finesse, PF in LMA. Greg provides great interior defense, rebounding, and is starting to develop into a low post threat. It doesn’t need to be one or the other – I think Kevin Durant is a phenomenal player. But Greg is a better fit in Portland. It’s knid of sad that the only way the national media frames this is as one versus the other, because that isn’t and never was the issue. It’s about Portland’s team + Oden vs.Portland’s team + Durant. I’ll take the former.
I hate Comcast
Card carrying member of Team Bayless
I need to stop being so hard on Steve Blake. Even though I'd rather see him as a top 5 backup PG than an undersized starting SG, he's a Bazer, he works hard, he has earned respect.
by blazeraddict on Nov 12, 2009 3:10 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
Thinking about it now...
Blake, Roy , Durant, LMA Pryz might have been pretty effective. Most likely would have won a few more games down the stretch last year. This is only because I believe Roy’s leadership would called Durant’s lack of defense out and made him a much better player. Then Roy himself would have to up his D to prove a point. Plus he wouldn’t have to carry the load continuously, giving him more energy for defense.
That said, neither Roy nor Durant would have been the superstars they are now/will be. That team would also not be a championship team down the road. Pryz is a great defensive force and I love him to death, but we would always be a jump shooting team. While we are now slowly getting away from that.
Portland could coast along with their superior talent and stay right with us. Now that Portland woke up, the hammer cometh down.
What else would you expect from Colin Cowpie?
I love my Comcast!
by Comcast Lover on Nov 12, 2009 3:22 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
How many game-changing centers are there? There are a lot of scorers.
If Oden’s play last night is reflective of what’s to come and he manages to stay on the floor for 35+ minutes a night, there is no question as to whom the Blazers should have drafted. His value is relative to the number of comparable players available. I can think of a few wing players in the league I’d take over Durant right now, but how many uninjured centers not named Dwight Howard would you pick over Oden?
You can tabulate points, minutes, rebounds, blocked shots, but the way Greg Oden impacts a game is more difficult to quantify; you have to watch games play-by-play. You can’t tell statistically how many guards opted for a jumper or went to the hole weak as a direct result of Oden being there. You can see that so-and-so missed from here or there, but it’s harder to understand why without qualitative information. Offensively, if Oden’s scoring 10 to 15 a game, he’s also commanding double teams and getting teammates buckets, many of which are two or more passes away.
One statistic that is helpful is offensive efficiency. What would you rather have: Durant taking 1 shot in a possession or Roy (or any decent scorer) taking 2 shots? Even when Oden isn’t getting a rebound, opposing players are preoccupied with boxing him out, which often nets someone else an offensive rebound.
Obviously, Durant can command double teams, pass the ball, and make his team better offensively as well, and it will be more apparent on his stat sheet. Oden improves the team on both ends of the floor, and you have to have more insight than a blowhard like Colin Cowherd to see why.
Yao took a team missing its best scorer to the second round. Subtract Yao and add McGrady and they don’t get as far. Shaq took three separate teams to the NBA finals. Dwight Howard took a team of good perimeter players who don’t play defense for the most part to the finals. Good centers are indispensable.
Personally--I dont understand why people compare Durant and Oden
Being #1 and #2 and being selected in the same draft, is about where all the similarities stop. Oden and Durant, wow, there couldnt be 2 more uncomparable players in the universe!! Oden, is getting way better, and way more comfortable out on the floor, leading to way better performances. Do I get too excited by Odens game vs the Wolves? Naw. He should crush those guys, but, since he did crush those guys its an obvious sign of his improvment over last year. Durant, I cant say enough good things about. Hes a pimpin player who is an offensive juggernaut, no doubt about it. Should we have picked him over Oden —-HELL NO! Oden will prove his value in the long term to this team, and is showing signs of it right now. Durants value is obvious on the surface, and OKC is a team that needs his type of services. But this is a long distance cross country type of race for us, not a 40 yard dash to the finish line. Look at our team and you can already see that we are building a core that is made for the long haul and even statisticians like ESPN (who know way more than all of us) predict us to be Championship contenders in the next couple of years. Where was OKC on that list? We need to do some kind of petition to stop the Oden vs Durant comparisons here at the Blazers Edge. We all would pick ODEN. At this point, if you wouldnt pick ODEN, well the 40 yard dash to the draft is over there, this is the long haul line
Great Post -HeyUncleOllie! —you are so right! And Oden vsHoward is a comparison that is way more acceptable to me than ODEN vs Durant. Cowherd blew it on this one!!
The Dude: Hey, careful, man, there's a beverage here!
by cavejunctionblazer on Nov 12, 2009 4:18 PM PST reply actions
PS-- REC!
The Dude: Hey, careful, man, there's a beverage here!
by cavejunctionblazer on Nov 12, 2009 4:19 PM PST up reply actions
Oden = Team Durant = Individual
Greg plays a team oriented game which translates to wins and Durant plays an individual game which translates to stats. I get tired of watching or listening to ESPN (Eastern Sports Probably Now) geeks talking about points put up by the same “stars” every night but never mentioning the number of shots they put up to get their points. Give Greg the same number of shots and he makes the same number of points. The Blazers probably will lose under that scenario.
oden was the right choice, and his per-40 mins stats compared to Dwight Howard
to expand on the stats you gave above, I broke them down to per-minute and per-40 minutees stats:
Howard (per 40 mins):
14.7ppg
2.08bpg
12.26rpg
Oden (per 40 mins):
16.5ppg
2.38bpg
13.21rpg
Based on those #s, Oden has had a better statistical start to his career
Also, Oden was definitely the right choice in the draft. We already had a very talented 2 guard, and a finnese power forward. Adding Durant to the mix, while he is a very good player, would not have added much for us at our positions of need. If Oden had not missed that 1 year, no one would be talking about this because we’d be seeing the player that we are now, in his rookie season. Way harder to find an athletic 7’ shot blocker and inside dominator than it is to find a 6’9 wing scorer.
by rip_city_swagger on Nov 12, 2009 5:12 PM PST reply actions
History will look back on the 97 draft as absolutely ridiculous if Oden and durant continue to show what they're capable of like this year.
Durant will be one of the best scorers, while Oden is looking more and more like an absolute game changer. I’m tired of the Durant vs Oden argument. Both are very nice players. I’m happy we chose Greg, but would have just as happy had we chosen Durant.
Oden appears to be learning things quite fast this year. I noticed in the Minny game his defense was relaxed, like he was comfortable with big Al banging against him. I think he’s learning he doesn’t have to block every shot. We have seen already that he doesn’t need to be an offensive juggernaut like Shaq or Duncan to totally take over a game. He probably never will be that type of player. But just someone controlling the middle like he has shown he can do will take us far in the playoffs, which is why he is so valuable.
I think Cowherd just wants to sound controversial. He knows that Portland fans listen to what everyone says about Oden.
History will look back on the 97 draft as absolutely ridiculous
Tim Duncan
Chauncey Billups
Tracy McGrady
Keith van Horn was drafted #2…now that was ridiculous
Portland’s picks were Kelvin Cato, Alvin Williams and Australian Chris Anstey (or maybe they traded Anstey’s rights for Cato, it’s all so fuzzy…)
and for some reason, the draft was held in Charlotte that year instead of NYC
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Durant is a shooting guard, we already had a pretty good one
Named Brandon Roy when Oden was picked. It’s easier for media types to say Greg is a bust because they had such lofty expectations. For some reason it seems like sports reports don’t understand that teams pick based on NEED, not razzle dazzle. We needed a center. Sure, Brandon could have slid over to another spot but SG seems to be where he is most comfortable. Greg is showing improvement in what seems like each game and when all is said and done career wise, I think Oden’s contributions will far outweight whatever Durant accomplishes.
Rudy was drafted to be a SG
even though Porland already had a RoTY in Roy
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I forgot about Rudy
But Rudy despite being a great player, I don’t believe comes with the expectations that drafting Durant would have. Taking your first overall pick to have him sit on the bench behind the reigning RoTY would seem sort of odd unless you have him or Roy moving to another position.
by gotissues68 on Nov 12, 2009 10:25 PM PST up reply actions
Durant was not drafted to be a shooting guard, although his skills allow him to play
the two or the three. He would never have sat for ROY, or vice versa.
by blacknoiseNW on Nov 12, 2009 11:50 PM PST up reply actions
this was the same dilemma
that led Inman/Ramsay to select Bowie over Jordan. They already had Drexler and Pxson on their roster, and needed a center to check Abdul-Jabbar and run Jack’s high-post offense
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
You know
Greg has some obvious coordination issues. Despite that he has gotten double and triple teamed almost his entire career. He rarely gets an opportunity to go toe to toe with one guy. There is always someone yanking his collar, while another guy is going for the strip. Thats not exactly a normal way to learn how to play offense, with that kind of attention. That says something about how the opposition feels with him down low. They dont want him going 10-13 down there.
Thats how he impacts the game on the offensive end. If he progresses at the rate he has, 2-3 years from now, he’ll be killing guys.
Everyone is saying Oden or Durant? How about Nicolas Batum? Thats who we have out there to stop KD.
Land Rondo.
I'm excited, but also old...
So I actually saw Bill Walton play live. Not in his championship Blazer days, but on his last legs in Boston. He was (still) awesome. His vision, passing ability, BBIQ, outlet pass, defensive rebounding and shot blocking and shooting ability were all top notch.
I always thought that if Bill wasn’t a vegetarian maybe his bones wouldn’t have been so brittle… Because it was only his physical limitations that stopped him from being considered top 4 Centers of all time (Wilt, Russell, and Kareem).
Greg obviously has a way to go to get to that level.
But I, too, am very excited about Greg’s meteoric improvement in just the last three games. He’s a completely different person. And his impact on the game has increased dramatically. If he figures out to leave his feet on the ground, and arms straight up on D (like he did his awesome last game), look out.
I do believe he has the raw physical tools and ability to be discussed in the upper echelon of centers when he finally hangs them up (hopefully by then I’ll be retired, and enjoy looking back on the glory days of Blazer title domination…)
You're absolutely right.
Great post.
This is one thing though that pisses me off the most about the ESPN analysts. They only follow the large market teams and the huge stars. They probably know a lot about the Lakers but when it comes to the Blazers they don’t know anything. I’ll bet Cowherd hasn’t even watched a Blazer game this year. He’s probably just going by numbers and by what he’s heard from the other national analysts. These guys need to put a little more effort into covering the guys they want to talk about instead of just talking out of their ass. Greg will be great. And about playing against no competition. What other centers besides Yao, Shaq, and Howard are good? Yao is out with an injury so he can’t matchup against him this season. But it will be interesting to see how he does against the other two. Plus he’s already handled Tim Duncan.
that sports nation show is a nightmare
colin was terrific back in his portland days, but his ego is getting pretty big these days. there aren’t a lot of people changing their minds about oden vs durant, everyone has their minda made up, colin has been saying the same thing about greg oden for two years
The only thing Cowherd ever did was make me miss Scott Lynn even more...
…or appreciate Joe Becker. I grew up watching Lynn, who struck me as one of the real gentlemen of local sports broadcasting. Who succeeded him, besides Coherd? There was one annoying dude (whose name blissfully escapes my mind) who went to Seattle, another annoying guy (also forgotten) who went to NYC and seems to have gotten into some sex-and-drugs scandal, and the current guy, who’s on probation for floating the tired Oden-as-bust line after last year’s playoffs (meanwhile, the Beckers, Joe or Tim, among others locally, thankfully spare us those dubious attempts at expertise and just report what happened). Anyway, I’m not terribly surprised Cowherd’s doing his current schtick on the shallowest rung of talk radio (with the glorious exception of someone like Dan Patrick).
Cowherd also makes me miss the controversial (in some humorless quarters) Ed Whelan. Ed’s teasing of the NBA’s “crummy game of the night” was better (and heaven knows, funnier) commentary on the state of the game than I’d ever expect to hear from certain people who’ve graduated to the ESPN farm team.
I used to like him when he was here in Portland.
Then he got the big gig and turned into a pompus….something.
My favorite teams are the Blazers and any team that is playing the Lakers.
I remember him covering High School football.
We always promote past peaks.
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
Cowherd is a doofus and is paid to make inflammatory remarks.
He will eventually be forced to eat his words, or look like a completely irrelevant hack.
Or Oden will end up being a bust, and Cowherd will prove to be right—like everyone else who is negative and loves to see people fail.
At the end of the day He’ll still have to look in the mirror and see Colin Cowherd, which is punishment enough.
Seriously people
You make fanposts about how Bill Simmons and/or Colin Cowherd said something incorrect?
My next fanpost will be about how humans breathe air and the sky is blue. We should just accept their idiocy as a matter of course and not take them seriously or personally. After all, when Greg leads us to the title, they will be all over our collective nuts so we should never take heed to the spewings of ones so inconsistent in their utterances.
These are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others. -Groucho Marx
In support of Durant...
he’s improved on the defensive end this year. A lot. At this point it’d be crazy to say that Oden has had the better career. But let’s wait to make a final evaluation until 2020 or so.
For me the jury is still out
until perhaps the end of this season; it will take that long for Greg to convince me of his physical durability. Today, I’m encouraged as he’s been healthy since chipping his knee cap AND has even finally been able to get himself into shape.
Right now, I’d probably still pick Durant but I’ve got my fingers crossed that this selection will be reversed by season’s end.
An aside: why do so many Portland fans feel the need to so severely trash (calling them jerks, idiots, d. bags etc.) nationally and locally well known sports writers only because of disagreements with what they write? It’s just an opinion which they are entitled to just as much as we are entitled to ours. We can disagree with them all we want, but is the name calling necessary?
Brandon Roy just destroyed everything in his path. There's your rational analysis -- Dave
Also: COMCAST SUCKS!
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