Gameday Open Thread: Blazers vs. Rockets--Post Game Edition
by Dave on Oct 31, 2009 7:45 PM PDT
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PrintThis is the thread to discuss the closing moments of the game and to reflect on post-game wisdom (or joy or angst or whatever) until the recap comes along. Enjoy!
--Dave (blazersub@yahoo.com)
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How similar is Dutch to German?
Only other language I take is Spanish…
"I always believe there's a reason why you go through everything." -John Elway
GO BLAZERS!
I can’t believe I’m rooting for a division rival…not to mention the fact that they aren’t even playing the Fakers!
"I always believe there's a reason why you go through everything." -John Elway
It's still better to be a Bronco.
I, by the way, am actually a Husky fan.
I just had to throw out that li’l’ early season reminder for Duck fans, though.
Dear Paul Allen:
Waive Patty Mills & sign Ime Udoka.
Sincerely,
AK1984
It is still better to be a bronco...unless your the one that got knocked out on
national television.
Ducks are tasty
"I can cross 'stab Hitler to death' off my list of cool crap I thought I'd never get to do." -Brock Samson
Also, COMCAST SUCKS!!!
by randommanthefirst on Oct 31, 2009 8:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Losing effort despite Roy 35, LMA 25, Miller 15. Poor defense.
But slowly things happen that they cannot help and the Blazers Fellowship of the Ring begins to break apart
no offense from anyone else
too much isolation, no hustle. The Blazers look constantly surprised by what the Rockets were doing whether it be getting putbacks or drawing fouls or getting to the hoop.
Stranger things have happened
but this one looks to be iced
I hate Comcast.
Card carrying member of Team Bayless
I believe in Greg Oden
we need a "start him" chant whenever miller is at the line
bayless leaves over my dead body
andre miller>hedo, blake
START MILLER
I think he made some bad choices in the 4th tonight
He elected to take some tough shots when brandon wanted the ball.
at least he has more than 2 points over the last 2 games
bayless leaves over my dead body
andre miller>hedo, blake
START MILLER
by thomasikehara on Oct 31, 2009 10:18 PM PDT up reply actions
I love the hunger they’re showing in these final seconds.
My team went to the playoffs in my first year.
True
I like the effort, but the execution (as was the case in the other losses) is what’s tripping this team up now.
I hate Comcast.
Card carrying member of Team Bayless
I believe in Greg Oden
by blazeraddict on Oct 31, 2009 8:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Sighh...
Party Works looks fun. After all, they’re serious about it.
The Kings have the best bench I’ve seen. There are easily 14 guys on this team good enough for every bench in the league. Now if we could only get some starters, I’d totally jizz in my pants.
Kings fan
I'm a Bulls fan, but I just lost 50 bucks betting on the Blazers
Can someone please tell me why they suck so hard on the road?
"That's a spicy meatball-a!" - Vinny Del Negro
just dont bet money
The Kings have the best bench I’ve seen. There are easily 14 guys on this team good enough for every bench in the league. Now if we could only get some starters, I’d totally jizz in my pants.
Kings fan
by dyshooter182 on Oct 31, 2009 8:07 PM PDT up reply actions
right now, they're just figuring things out
in a few weeks, they’ll come back, and more powerful than you can possibly imagine
bayless leaves over my dead body
andre miller>hedo, blake
START MILLER
by thomasikehara on Oct 31, 2009 8:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Oregon Vortex
"I won't back down." -- Tom Petty
"History is important. If you don't know history it is as if you were born yesterday. And, if you were born yesterday, anybody up there in a position of power can tell you anything, and you have no way of checking up on it." -- Howard Zinn
Nate gets all defensive when you ask him a though question, but he is not a defensive minded coach like Quick like to say about him.
And Oden, once again, is a rookie, so non-stop fast break basketball is like fast-forwarding a song while he's trying to learn the lyrics.
WHOO HOO!!
The Kings have the best bench I’ve seen. There are easily 14 guys on this team good enough for every bench in the league. Now if we could only get some starters, I’d totally jizz in my pants.
Kings fan
now miss the 2nd
The Kings have the best bench I’ve seen. There are easily 14 guys on this team good enough for every bench in the league. Now if we could only get some starters, I’d totally jizz in my pants.
Kings fan
by dyshooter182 on Oct 31, 2009 8:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Darn..
The Kings have the best bench I’ve seen. There are easily 14 guys on this team good enough for every bench in the league. Now if we could only get some starters, I’d totally jizz in my pants.
Kings fan
sigh it's over
wow I really want to cuss right now….
The Kings have the best bench I’ve seen. There are easily 14 guys on this team good enough for every bench in the league. Now if we could only get some starters, I’d totally jizz in my pants.
Kings fan
go ahead..we can't hear you...
jst don’t type it
Typing swear words has more meaning hahaha
Ughhhhhhh…wow…where’s my bottle.
The Kings have the best bench I’ve seen. There are easily 14 guys on this team good enough for every bench in the league. Now if we could only get some starters, I’d totally jizz in my pants.
Kings fan
by dyshooter182 on Oct 31, 2009 8:10 PM PDT up reply actions
1-2
The Kings have the best bench I’ve seen. There are easily 14 guys on this team good enough for every bench in the league. Now if we could only get some starters, I’d totally jizz in my pants.
Kings fan
Champagne eh
Yeah lets celebrate!
The Kings have the best bench I’ve seen. There are easily 14 guys on this team good enough for every bench in the league. Now if we could only get some starters, I’d totally jizz in my pants.
Kings fan
by dyshooter182 on Oct 31, 2009 8:12 PM PDT up reply actions
I was thinking mad dog.
Maybe the night train. woot woot. sigh.
My team went to the playoffs in my first year.
....Aaaannnnddd
We suck.
"I can cross 'stab Hitler to death' off my list of cool crap I thought I'd never get to do." -Brock Samson
Also, COMCAST SUCKS!!!
by randommanthefirst on Oct 31, 2009 8:11 PM PDT reply actions
we started 1-3 last season. its all good
we will come around. houston lived by the 3. and our D sucks a fat one
"shaq and zach randolph have the same trainer... "
best one liner i ever heard.
This loss is not a big deal.
Don’t sweat it. In the long term, getting out of the gate slowly might end up being advantageous.
Agreed
It’s early, they’re still trying to figure out their roles.
by OmoriumVerum on Oct 31, 2009 8:12 PM PDT up reply actions
there’s just a whole lot of variables that need to be locked down.
My team went to the playoffs in my first year.
Yeah.
While I have concerns about the variables and how they’d get locked down, I think one way or another it will work itself out.
It took a bit last year too...
The first 20-25 games will be a bit rocky. Especially with Miller running the point. He an Roy are learning how to play with each other. It’s been an issue in the fourth so far.
Also, I think Miller was pushing a bit too much tonight. He needs to settle down a bit. I would’ve really liked to see him work the post with Greg. I also wouldn’t mind see Juwan in there with him either.
I think Outlaw will be the odd man out at the trade deadline (along with Blake if he keeps playing like he is). He’s just too inconsistent. 1 good game out of ever 4-5 is not going to cut it.
by OmoriumVerum on Oct 31, 2009 8:23 PM PDT up reply actions
very disappointing lack of effort on the defensive end. after all the talk, we see the exact same things.
no defense, no offense from Oden, no ability to stay on the court from Oden, etc.
Oden only had 3 attemps
and hit 2 of them…Nate needs to get him more involved. He’ll draw quick fouls on the opposing team’s bigs and open things up.
by OmoriumVerum on Oct 31, 2009 8:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Oden's offensive issues are emblematic of issues both inside and outside of Oden, IMO
It won’t improve until both sides make progress.
well said
I would give it all up for a billion dollars
by Tyler Durrden on Oct 31, 2009 8:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Well DUH!
I would give it all up for a billion dollars
by Tyler Durrden on Oct 31, 2009 8:17 PM PDT up reply actions
When Joel got switched on Brooks, I almost started to laugh.
Not exactly what Nate outlined in his talks with Quick.
But slowly things happen that they cannot help and the Blazers Fellowship of the Ring begins to break apart
The same happened with Aldridge btw
But slowly things happen that they cannot help and the Blazers Fellowship of the Ring begins to break apart
What Nate outlined before the season made a lot of sense. A bit complicated with big men and guards having to know who is a 4 and who is a 5 all the time, but still that made sense. But it’s not working – again.
Last night the worst I have seen from the Mavs was Dirk getting switched on Kobe once, and that play didn’t result in a basket because he could channel Kobe into another player. The Bulls last year switched a lot, but the Blazers look really bad at defending simple pick schemes.
But slowly things happen that they cannot help and the Blazers Fellowship of the Ring begins to break apart
Nate McMillan is inept at defending the pick-and-roll, which will be his downfall ultimately.
Dear Paul Allen:
Waive Patty Mills & sign Ime Udoka.
Sincerely,
AK1984
Oden's Touches
Once the Blazers realize that they need Oden to take at least 8-10 shots a game, they’ll start winning.
but oden gets doubled and when he passes out its pandamoneum 2009
"shaq and zach randolph have the same trainer... "
best one liner i ever heard.
yeah we have to stop the double teams.
Blazers didn’t do enough to punish Rockets for doubling….
The Kings have the best bench I’ve seen. There are easily 14 guys on this team good enough for every bench in the league. Now if we could only get some starters, I’d totally jizz in my pants.
Kings fan
by dyshooter182 on Oct 31, 2009 8:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Another reason Martell's lack of PT tonight had me confused
I hate Comcast.
Card carrying member of Team Bayless
I believe in Greg Oden
by blazeraddict on Oct 31, 2009 8:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Practice makes perfect.
The only we he’s going to learn is by doing it. Plus, he actually does a decent job of passing out of the double team.
by OmoriumVerum on Oct 31, 2009 8:15 PM PDT up reply actions
he did i know i liked his passes. we just couldnt take advantage
"shaq and zach randolph have the same trainer... "
best one liner i ever heard.
Exactly...
He passed well out of the double team last game as well.
by OmoriumVerum on Oct 31, 2009 8:24 PM PDT up reply actions
yeah, the Rockets do a much better job of getting their bigs (even the ones of have little offensive skill)
the ball in good situations.
You know
I think there’s a blog for that sort of haberdashery around here.
"I can cross 'stab Hitler to death' off my list of cool crap I thought I'd never get to do." -Brock Samson
Also, COMCAST SUCKS!!!
by randommanthefirst on Oct 31, 2009 8:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Can we at least give Bayless a look
If Blake’s not shooting well, he’s not adding value
I hate Comcast.
Card carrying member of Team Bayless
I believe in Greg Oden
I guess it what Blake did last season. He will spread the floor.
And Oden, once again, is a rookie, so non-stop fast break basketball is like fast-forwarding a song while he's trying to learn the lyrics.
Blake sucks and I want Rex.
And this team is not going anywhere.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
3 games Timbo.
Both losses to (in my opinion) playoff teams. There’s a lot to be upset about but way too early to draw conclusions.
Rex will get his chance if Blake continues to play this poorly.
Well, Andre Miller is technically a true point guard.
As it is, though, this team needs an off guard who can shoot efficiently, play defense, and run the pick-and-roll when called upon to do it.
There’s one man for the job, with his name being Kirk Hinrich.
Dear Paul Allen:
Waive Patty Mills & sign Ime Udoka.
Sincerely,
AK1984
After spendind the summer being adamently against that
I have seen the light. Hinrich on this team>Blake on this team.
I still don’t agree with you about Bayless, though.
bayless leaves over my dead body
andre miller>hedo, blake
START MILLER
by thomasikehara on Oct 31, 2009 11:13 PM PDT up reply actions
at the moment we are below .500
And Oden, once again, is a rookie, so non-stop fast break basketball is like fast-forwarding a song while he's trying to learn the lyrics.
blake always sucks against a fast PG
nothin new
How the hell did that happen? I am Trailblazer fan to the core but I love me some OKC THunder!!! Must be the Hometown pride I feel.
I'll Say it now so you guys can know I'm a true follower: "In Pioli I Trust"
Go Chiefs!!!!!
Yeah he was terrible last year in the playoffs vs. brooks, no reason to expect any different.
I would give it all up for a billion dollars
by Tyler Durrden on Oct 31, 2009 8:17 PM PDT up reply actions
we got miller but he always starts out slow
Nate was wrong to try and change him by starting Blake over him…. confidence killer …. if miller doesnt start by game 15 Nate is not the right coach for this team …..
How the hell did that happen? I am Trailblazer fan to the core but I love me some OKC THunder!!! Must be the Hometown pride I feel.
I'll Say it now so you guys can know I'm a true follower: "In Pioli I Trust"
Go Chiefs!!!!!
One area where I'm not fairly confident after watching him for 3 years: Blake shouldn't inbound balls anymore. He's too small and really bad at it.
But slowly things happen that they cannot help and the Blazers Fellowship of the Ring begins to break apart
yeah he seems to get tunnel vision in those situations
I would give it all up for a billion dollars
by Tyler Durrden on Oct 31, 2009 8:20 PM PDT up reply actions
I go nuts when Blake inbounds
It’s one of the few times I think I yell out loud at the screen. I swear we lost 20 or 30 timeouts last year due to Blake inbounding.
Rudy seems to be the best inbounder on the team. I sometimes wonder if he could morph into a PG as he ages.
He didn't look good against Billups last night who is one of the bigger slower PGs. But undoubtedly Rudy has great court vision and dares make passes.
His problem are rather his mediocre ballhandling skills. Mediocre for a shooting guard, and too bad against most point guards.
But slowly things happen that they cannot help and the Blazers Fellowship of the Ring begins to break apart
Agreed on the ball handling
I think that if he wants to morph into a PG, he can improve those considerably though. That can be learned. It’s up to Rudy’s interest level in being a PG though.
There's room for Miller.
Let him post up, rebound, but don’t let him shoot jumpers and above all, stay out of Brandon’s way in the fourth.
thats what Im saying he should be an option to drive to the hoop for a layin or nice pass
with a pass out of the double team from brandon.
The fouls
I just can’t believe, or understand, Oden’s foul problems. Has a career ever been destroyed because of fouls?
yes his name is greg !!!!
lets face it he will be tagged a bust by game 25
How the hell did that happen? I am Trailblazer fan to the core but I love me some OKC THunder!!! Must be the Hometown pride I feel.
I'll Say it now so you guys can know I'm a true follower: "In Pioli I Trust"
Go Chiefs!!!!!
I don't know what to say..
Oden looked fine in the preseason. Even with the different refs, I didn’t think we’d see foul problems again.
Oden’s just too effective for this team. We need him on offense and defense. He brings so much more than Przybilla IMHO.
The Kings have the best bench I’ve seen. There are easily 14 guys on this team good enough for every bench in the league. Now if we could only get some starters, I’d totally jizz in my pants.
Kings fan
by dyshooter182 on Oct 31, 2009 8:18 PM PDT up reply actions
The frustrating thing
is he commits at least 2/3 fouls per game 20 feet from the rim, or on moving picks. If he can limit/eliminate those “lapse” fouls, he stays on the court. Unfortunately, he hasn’t progressed there.
I hate Comcast.
Card carrying member of Team Bayless
I believe in Greg Oden
by blazeraddict on Oct 31, 2009 8:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Przy appears to have (predictably) regressed substantially
Oden looks to have improved a lot on D.
He must get better at avoiding fouls. They are badly hurting the team right now.
I do think he is under a microscope still from the refs, they let the other teams get away with a lot more than greg does, and typically it's the no-name guys.
I would give it all up for a billion dollars
by Tyler Durrden on Oct 31, 2009 8:21 PM PDT up reply actions
He needs to learn to keep his hands STRAIGHT up...
He kills me when he reaches. He so much bigger than everybody else. He doesn’t need to reach.
by OmoriumVerum on Oct 31, 2009 8:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Agreed
Pryz and Joel look much more like their career numbers early on this season. Greg needs to limit the silly (moving pick, 25 feet from the rim) fouls – he gives this team the best chance to win, but he can’t really help as a 15-25 mpg guy
I hate Comcast.
Card carrying member of Team Bayless
I believe in Greg Oden
by blazeraddict on Oct 31, 2009 8:22 PM PDT up reply actions
Pryz and Joel look much more like their career numbers early on this season.
Joel’s busy enough to split into two separate people now, to double the number of fouls available.
Dang it - I thought I fixed it in time :)
I hate Comcast.
Card carrying member of Team Bayless
I believe in Greg Oden
by blazeraddict on Oct 31, 2009 8:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Oops - meant Pryz and Blake
I hate Comcast.
Card carrying member of Team Bayless
I believe in Greg Oden
by blazeraddict on Oct 31, 2009 8:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Too soon to panic but Nate is getting the least production
out of the most talent in the league
by southern oregon on Oct 31, 2009 8:17 PM PDT reply actions
Where was Webster?
Can someone explain why Webster wasn’t in the game down the stretch? Not to be pessimistic, but Roy dropped 42 and we lost the game with no perimeter D…
Not quite sure
When he was in, he wasn’t doin that hot. He had three fouls before the half right?
The Kings have the best bench I’ve seen. There are easily 14 guys on this team good enough for every bench in the league. Now if we could only get some starters, I’d totally jizz in my pants.
Kings fan
by dyshooter182 on Oct 31, 2009 8:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing.
Dude got lots of accolades for his defense on Anthony and tonight he only gets 15 mins.
Melo?
When did Melo = Ariza though? I mean, Martell is no Nic Batum, but Travis was having a terrible night offensively and defensively. At that point, you gotta at least sub offense for defense.
Nate is too reliant on Tavis...
…and it may cost him his job in the end. Nate doesn’t know how to coach a team. He coaches a system. His fourth quarter substitutions are some of the most baffling I’ve ever seen. Adelman outcoached him (again) this game. I really wouldn’t mind having him back.
by OmoriumVerum on Oct 31, 2009 8:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Rick Adelman is one of the best offensive minds in the NBA, bar none.
Yet, at this point in time, the Portland Trail Blazers need a defensive-minded coach who knows how to both operate and guard against the pick-and-roll, as well as run an offense focusing on the center getting strong position underneath the basket and receiving plenty of touches.
That coach’s name is none other than Jeff Van Gundy.
Dear Paul Allen:
Waive Patty Mills & sign Ime Udoka.
Sincerely,
AK1984
As a Rockets fan, I have a great deal of respect for JVG, but
from experience, I can tell you that JVG will convert the blazers into a team with very predictable offense (not necessarily successful), that saps any ounce of creativity or flow. I think Adelman’s defense is often underrated.
In my view, Oden needs a lot more polish. What are his go-to moves? At present, they look very raw. He is not quick on his feet, and he does not have the skills to compensate for the lack of quickness.
Kari
See, I don't mind the predictable offense. It's more about establishing the interior ...
on offense and playing sound pick-and-roll defense that draws me to Jeff Van Gundy.
Yes, Rick Adelman runs a flex motion offense — which also draws from the Princeton — but the biggest thing for me is efficiency on offense over fluidity. Now, if Van Gundy can keep the slow-pace tempo intact, run a balanced inside/outside attack on offense, and properly coach defense, then he’ll have done his job with this team.
Dear Paul Allen:
Waive Patty Mills & sign Ime Udoka.
Sincerely,
AK1984
I like that the Blazers are not over achieving early in the season so KP can see that we need to make one good trade.
And Oden, once again, is a rookie, so non-stop fast break basketball is like fast-forwarding a song while he's trying to learn the lyrics.
There are all kinds of silver linings so far
I’d guess that KP won’t expect this to be fixed with one trade.
Not that he won’t make a trade, just that it won’t be a fix-all.
Yeah, there aren’t that many good players getting shopped or at least not actively protected. Stephen Jackson would do nothing for this team in my opinion, and will likely end up in Cleveland or New Orleans. Rudy Gay might be let go by Memphis for the right price, but he brings no better defense or efficiency, just a bit more scoring and used to playing 30+ minutes. And then some old vet PFs, but if Nate thought that is the big big problem he could try using Howard or Dante first.
But slowly things happen that they cannot help and the Blazers Fellowship of the Ring begins to break apart
One thing I am confused about is why they put the offense through Travis Outlaw so much late in the game
He was going up against Shane Battier. I kinda expected him to struggle there.
The Kings have the best bench I’ve seen. There are easily 14 guys on this team good enough for every bench in the league. Now if we could only get some starters, I’d totally jizz in my pants.
Kings fan
I think greg's foul problems correlates to the amount of touches he gets.
He generally plays well when gets more involved in the offense cause it builds his confidence and he gets more into the game.
Dunno. He struggles with the double team, and other teams know that. Blazers don’t seem to be able to capitalize on the doubles too effectively, so why not throw another player at him. And if he turns it over or commits an offensive foul, it rattles his head. Maybe better to just use him on the D end and save his fouls?
There are also new refs, again...
I hope he is just getting acclimated to them after becoming accustomed to the replacements.
When they pass it into Oden
they need better spacing and off the ball movement to get that extra foot of space on the pass out. Teams are going to double him because he turns the ball over.
The Blazers seem completely flummoxed by pick and rolls on both sides of the ball. Any time a big man shows hard against our pick and rolls the Blazers can’t get anywhere. Any time the other team sets a pick the defense can’t stay with it. They have to switch.
We need less isolation offense and fewer offensive sets that take 18 seconds to run.
by Magnum on Oct 31, 2009 8:21 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I definitely agree with your first point
Either the Blazers need to provide shooters or cutters that are within Oden’s passing range. Not only that, but finish as well. I saw a couple of times where Oden made great passes and recognized the D, but the rest of the team failed to capitalize on the opening.
The Kings have the best bench I’ve seen. There are easily 14 guys on this team good enough for every bench in the league. Now if we could only get some starters, I’d totally jizz in my pants.
Kings fan
by dyshooter182 on Oct 31, 2009 8:22 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh man.
It’s one game, but I’d have to say our future success majorly hangs on Oden’s shoulders. His offense and ability to stay in the game needs to develop ASAP. Sure, Houston can destroy us with their perimeter players, but we should be able to counter with our crushing game in the paint.
Yeah cuz LMA and Roy cant do any better besides defense.
And Oden, once again, is a rookie, so non-stop fast break basketball is like fast-forwarding a song while he's trying to learn the lyrics.
exactly. You cant expect Roy to score 40 and LMA 25 each night.
And Oden, once again, is a rookie, so non-stop fast break basketball is like fast-forwarding a song while he's trying to learn the lyrics.
I was joking that Nate is defensive, but not defensive minded.
But I do think that Nate want the team to play defense, but somehow it translates in our player fouling and thats not defense.
And Oden, once again, is a rookie, so non-stop fast break basketball is like fast-forwarding a song while he's trying to learn the lyrics.
fixed
ourpick and roll D is still terrible.
I would give it all up for a billion dollars
by Tyler Durrden on Oct 31, 2009 8:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Cant it be that Blazers dont play any pick and roll themselves, so thats why they cant defend it cuz they dont understand it or whatever
And Oden, once again, is a rookie, so non-stop fast break basketball is like fast-forwarding a song while he's trying to learn the lyrics.
We have no post game
without a post game we will only do good in the regular season …..
“Blazers… yeah they are a nice little jump shooting team……. but no one wins by the jumpshot !” ~Charles Barkley
How the hell did that happen? I am Trailblazer fan to the core but I love me some OKC THunder!!! Must be the Hometown pride I feel.
I'll Say it now so you guys can know I'm a true follower: "In Pioli I Trust"
Go Chiefs!!!!!
The Orlando Magic laugh in Charles' face
The primary difference between the Magic and the Blazers? Look no further than defense.
we can still be a shooting team but we have no post
offense
How the hell did that happen? I am Trailblazer fan to the core but I love me some OKC THunder!!! Must be the Hometown pride I feel.
I'll Say it now so you guys can know I'm a true follower: "In Pioli I Trust"
Go Chiefs!!!!!
if you think that's the primary problem with the Blazers, I must disagree
I am certainly in favor of Aldridge playing more inside and Oden getting more touches, but that’s not problem #1.
True. We didn’t have any trouble scoring tonight. We just gave up 111 to a team without their offensive weapons.
Well let's see who the Rockets' high scorers were.
Trevor Ariza, Aaron Brooks, and Carl Landry. That’s IT! Everyone else had 8 points or less. That’s actually pretty glaring. Trevor Ariza was really hot tonight, but it kind of shows how Webster and Outlaw’s defensive deficiencies. Aaron Brooks can outquick anyone in the Blazers. Carl Landry is the one that puzzles me….
The Kings have the best bench I’ve seen. There are easily 14 guys on this team good enough for every bench in the league. Now if we could only get some starters, I’d totally jizz in my pants.
Kings fan
by dyshooter182 on Oct 31, 2009 8:30 PM PDT up reply actions
I think, Rockets won simply because they were better defensively
and refused to yield when Blazers made several runs. They are a tough bunch
What is their number one problem?
I’m actually curious because I can’t think of just one right now….
The Kings have the best bench I’ve seen. There are easily 14 guys on this team good enough for every bench in the league. Now if we could only get some starters, I’d totally jizz in my pants.
Kings fan
by dyshooter182 on Oct 31, 2009 8:28 PM PDT up reply actions
defense?
I would give it all up for a billion dollars
by Tyler Durrden on Oct 31, 2009 8:29 PM PDT up reply actions
granted we need our Batum back
How the hell did that happen? I am Trailblazer fan to the core but I love me some OKC THunder!!! Must be the Hometown pride I feel.
I'll Say it now so you guys can know I'm a true follower: "In Pioli I Trust"
Go Chiefs!!!!!
no we actually need better team defense, and man on man. One good defender(batum) would not have been enough tonight.
I would give it all up for a billion dollars
by Tyler Durrden on Oct 31, 2009 8:32 PM PDT up reply actions
I just realized that your name is Tyler Durrden
Like Fight Club eh?
The Kings have the best bench I’ve seen. There are easily 14 guys on this team good enough for every bench in the league. Now if we could only get some starters, I’d totally jizz in my pants.
Kings fan
by dyshooter182 on Oct 31, 2009 8:32 PM PDT up reply actions
yes
I would give it all up for a billion dollars
by Tyler Durrden on Oct 31, 2009 8:33 PM PDT up reply actions
So does that make you an imaginary person
The Kings have the best bench I’ve seen. There are easily 14 guys on this team good enough for every bench in the league. Now if we could only get some starters, I’d totally jizz in my pants.
Kings fan
by dyshooter182 on Oct 31, 2009 8:34 PM PDT up reply actions
is that a question?
If I’m imaginary, what does that make you?
I would give it all up for a billion dollars
by Tyler Durrden on Oct 31, 2009 8:35 PM PDT up reply actions
A guy with mental problems.
djfiowejgoewigjegoiewjgoewigeh
The Kings have the best bench I’ve seen. There are easily 14 guys on this team good enough for every bench in the league. Now if we could only get some starters, I’d totally jizz in my pants.
Kings fan
by dyshooter182 on Oct 31, 2009 8:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Orlando Magic aren't that successful
While I do get sick of hearing Barkley give his wisdom in saying that every team that knows how to shoot is bad, Orlando just CRAPPED against LA. They beat Cleveland because they were hot from downtown.
The Kings have the best bench I’ve seen. There are easily 14 guys on this team good enough for every bench in the league. Now if we could only get some starters, I’d totally jizz in my pants.
Kings fan
by dyshooter182 on Oct 31, 2009 8:26 PM PDT up reply actions
20 pts 19 rbs or so
last year right???
How the hell did that happen? I am Trailblazer fan to the core but I love me some OKC THunder!!! Must be the Hometown pride I feel.
I'll Say it now so you guys can know I'm a true follower: "In Pioli I Trust"
Go Chiefs!!!!!
true
I would give it all up for a billion dollars
by Tyler Durrden on Oct 31, 2009 8:39 PM PDT up reply actions
in his defense, Bayless’ jump shot has been better. And it’s not like Steve is Dell Curry out there at this point.
free bayless
that assumes that last year wasn’t anomalous. I think he was just off with his motion last year.
free bayless
Fair point. Hopefully we'll get to find out at some point this season.
Bayless is sure to hit the court eventually, for one of 50 different reasons. Hopefully even meaningful playing time.
we shall see. I think Nate plays Rudy minutes at PG and Bayless gets scraps if Blake/Miller is hurt.
free bayless
Maybe Bayless' good shooting in preseason was like Oden reducing his fouls - just an anomaly
But do you really think he does worse than 22% from the field?
Even if he hits 3’s at a 30% clip, a modest improvement from last year, you know he will be driving and drawing fouls. That is far more important to this team right now – Andre showed how useful it could be for a stretch tonight but I favour giving Bayless a shot because he earned it.
His attitude is just a bonus for me – maybe he could fire some other guys up, getting some pretty nonchalant efforts out there to date.
It's hard to say if the reduction in Oden's fouls was an anomaly
Or a byproduct of a fresh set of referee eyes that are now removed.
Man, that Donaghy excerpt may or may not be true, but it really reinforces a lot of the fears of NBA fans about referee agendas.
There’s a difference between “did Oden commit a foul?” and “would another known center get called for that foul?”. One is in Oden’s control. The other is not.
yeah but they have a very good Center
How the hell did that happen? I am Trailblazer fan to the core but I love me some OKC THunder!!! Must be the Hometown pride I feel.
I'll Say it now so you guys can know I'm a true follower: "In Pioli I Trust"
Go Chiefs!!!!!
the point is that 3 point shooting teams can win, if they have good rebounding and defense
Portland has good rebounding. They do not have good defense. While there are several problems, the main one is defense.
i disagree
we rebound well but not one of them can put that ball back in the rim with authority …. that is Odens job to grab a rbs and dunk it back but because he is either out of the game or turnover prone …. he cannot do his job
How the hell did that happen? I am Trailblazer fan to the core but I love me some OKC THunder!!! Must be the Hometown pride I feel.
I'll Say it now so you guys can know I'm a true follower: "In Pioli I Trust"
Go Chiefs!!!!!
Maybe this is KP's plan.
He wants more lottery picks.
My favorite teams are the Blazers and any team that is playing the Lakers.
we need a new coach not more talent. We have enough talent just not the right
coach to develop and utilize that talent
Ahh, the fantasy that all will be well with a different coach. Name me a team in the league that doesn’t have fans that think that.
the utah jazz
I would give it all up for a billion dollars
by Tyler Durrden on Oct 31, 2009 8:32 PM PDT up reply actions
The Lakers
The Spurs
But slowly things happen that they cannot help and the Blazers Fellowship of the Ring begins to break apart
I know that there have been plenty of Laker fans that question Phils coaching despite his track record. That’s kind of my point. When the Lakers have problems, the coach is the first to get criticized. I don’t know about Jazz and Spurs personally, but I’d be surprised to hear that they aren’t criticized by fans as well when things aren’t going well. Not to say Nate makes all the right calls, but NOBODY makes all the right calls.
The right call is give it to roy and thats not hard for nate to make
its his philosophy that doesnt work right now.
btw I’ve seen the laker blogs and been to the laker forums when they’re losing games (like to see laker fans whine) and the top complaint I see is always that Phil blew it somehow. blazers totally exceeded expectations last year and the top complaint was probably that Nate held us back. it will definitely get ugly when the Blazers actually underperform.
I would have to go back to the game day thread, but I don't think I've seen "Fire Jackson" comments after their loss to Dallas last night.
Rather “we need Gasol” and “Fisher sucks”.
But slowly things happen that they cannot help and the Blazers Fellowship of the Ring begins to break apart
they could play without a coach and lose just as many games
I would give it all up for a billion dollars
by Tyler Durrden on Oct 31, 2009 8:34 PM PDT up reply actions
The Patriots.
If you are talking about the Association I would say……………………………………………………………………………………..Ill have to get back to you on that,,,,,,,,,,,,Probably the Lakers and the Jazz for sure.
He is bummed out the one lottery ball didn't fall his way to land Rose. Then Denver snatched Lawson. Now he wants John Wall.
Almost as good as the “he wanted to kill Toronto’s salary situation” Hedo theory.
But slowly things happen that they cannot help and the Blazers Fellowship of the Ring begins to break apart
I remember when Portland could win every game last season if they just simply outrebounded their opponents
Did we lose that magic or something?
The Kings have the best bench I’ve seen. There are easily 14 guys on this team good enough for every bench in the league. Now if we could only get some starters, I’d totally jizz in my pants.
Kings fan
+
Aldridge and Roy both looked like all-stars.
Miller was solid over his 25 minutes.
Ariza is on my fantasy squad.
-
Blake looked aweful.
(PG line for the evening: Blake (2 pts, 6 assists, 0 rbnds) Miller (15 pts, 2 assists, 5 rbnds) Oh, and they basically split minutes 50/50. Blake was 0-2 from 3 and had his ankle broken by Brooks a couple of times. I donno. I say the writing is on the wall.
Oden put up a hangover effort.
Basically none of our reserves helped us score apart from Miller.
Did I mention we shot 51%, out rebounding them by 5 total, scored 107 yet still lost by 4. Pretty aweful defense.
Regarding Hedo Türkoğlu:
Look at the bright side, Blazers fans -- you dodged a bullet. He peaked statistically two years ago. He's allegedly 30 but could be closer to 32 or 33 for all we know. (Do you trust Turkish birth certificates? And isn't it weird that he played four years of pro ball in Turkey in the 1990s?)
- Bill Simmons of ESPN.com
Aldridge looked like an allstar on offense, but was god awful on D
Roy wasn’t a lot better on that end.
Those two lollygagging sieves really need a coach who won't coddle them when they're lazy on ...
defense, but rather one who’ll lay into their asses verbally when he notices slacking off on that side of the ball.
Dear Paul Allen:
Waive Patty Mills & sign Ime Udoka.
Sincerely,
AK1984
This is one I can not let slide...
Awful, not aweful.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
Heh. If I’m at home watching a game, I’m not sober. So it’s aweful and awful when I’m at work. For some strange reason I’m dyslexic when I try and post my thoughts while intoxicated.
;)
Regarding Hedo Türkoğlu:
Look at the bright side, Blazers fans -- you dodged a bullet. He peaked statistically two years ago. He's allegedly 30 but could be closer to 32 or 33 for all we know. (Do you trust Turkish birth certificates? And isn't it weird that he played four years of pro ball in Turkey in the 1990s?)
- Bill Simmons of ESPN.com
Oh man, we take on the Durant show tomorrow.
Please stay in the game for more than a few minutes Oden!!
I'm hoping that Oden really wants to prove something tomorrow.
Getting sick of hearing about Durant and OKC.
The Kings have the best bench I’ve seen. There are easily 14 guys on this team good enough for every bench in the league. Now if we could only get some starters, I’d totally jizz in my pants.
Kings fan
by dyshooter182 on Oct 31, 2009 8:32 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm okay with Durant getting attention for his offense.
I was just hoping to see an equally matched Oden on the defensive end. I think he can be some day. He’s just got to smarten up fast.
yeah they have been playing pretty damn good ball in OKC ....so far....
How the hell did that happen? I am Trailblazer fan to the core but I love me some OKC THunder!!! Must be the Hometown pride I feel.
I'll Say it now so you guys can know I'm a true follower: "In Pioli I Trust"
Go Chiefs!!!!!
And it'll be just THAT much better when we beat them tomorrow.
The Kings have the best bench I’ve seen. There are easily 14 guys on this team good enough for every bench in the league. Now if we could only get some starters, I’d totally jizz in my pants.
Kings fan
by dyshooter182 on Oct 31, 2009 8:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Hey
Can it be that Blazers cant play pick and roll, so they dont know how to defend it, cuz they dont understand it, or whatever?
And Oden, once again, is a rookie, so non-stop fast break basketball is like fast-forwarding a song while he's trying to learn the lyrics.
Maybe MIller and Oden need to play together
Blake NEVER passes to Oden in the post…
The Kings have the best bench I’ve seen. There are easily 14 guys on this team good enough for every bench in the league. Now if we could only get some starters, I’d totally jizz in my pants.
Kings fan
by dyshooter182 on Oct 31, 2009 8:33 PM PDT up reply actions
CP3 and Tyson played some nice pick and roll for an allyup
And Oden, once again, is a rookie, so non-stop fast break basketball is like fast-forwarding a song while he's trying to learn the lyrics.
Maybe they think they are good at it in training because nobody runs it effectively :)
But slowly things happen that they cannot help and the Blazers Fellowship of the Ring begins to break apart
Well, Joel sets pretty good picks, and Roy is fairly good at coming off them. Batum too. Travis and Martell not, and LaMarcus and Oden aren’t really good at setting them.
But slowly things happen that they cannot help and the Blazers Fellowship of the Ring begins to break apart
But Joel cant roll to the hoop nor can catch it if he does.
And Oden, once again, is a rookie, so non-stop fast break basketball is like fast-forwarding a song while he's trying to learn the lyrics.
Yeah if we get a good pick we still end up shooting a jumper, not a easy dunk or lay-up.
And Oden, once again, is a rookie, so non-stop fast break basketball is like fast-forwarding a song while he's trying to learn the lyrics.
Right, Joel is good for enabling open pick and pops with LaMarcus or Roy
But slowly things happen that they cannot help and the Blazers Fellowship of the Ring begins to break apart
LMA and Oden's inability on the pick and roll...
Leave me concerned about the Big Man Coach. I don’t wish to pick on Luke, but you need to look at him. Joel was trained by folks on other teams, and was proficient when he arrived (arguably better under Mo Cheeks, actually).
Nate tries to teach Oden and the others to "show hard" on the pick and roll defense
That is the right approach if it works (Celtics with Garnett and Perkins), but of course can leave you in no man’s land if it doesn’t.
But slowly things happen that they cannot help and the Blazers Fellowship of the Ring begins to break apart
I'm from the stay at home theory of defending the pick-and-roll, as well as someone ...
who thinks that Greg Oden should be developed more as a traditional back-to-the-basket pivotman. Indeed, Oden’s offense should be centered around posting up on the low block rather than being a pick-and-roll center. Defensively, Oden showing on the pick-and-roll leads to bad mismatches off of switches, late rotations, and an increase in fouls. It’s bad times, indeed.
In my view, the 4 should be the main pick-and-roll/pick-and-pop threat. LaMarcus Aldridge, however, is very, very soft on offense and relies too much on the pick-and-pop for inefficient mid-range jump shots. Aldridge is a crap man-to-man interior defender and lazy weakside help defender, too, while his ability to be a decent one-on-one perimeter defender against fleet-footed 4s is overrated in the grand scheme of things.
Brook Lopez, as far as I’m concerned, would be an optimum fit for the 4 — both offensively and defensively — since unlike Aldridge he more often rolls than pops after setting a high screen; plus, his overall skill set allows him to show on pick-and-roll defense and provide weakside help more effectively than anyone on the Portland Trail Blazers roster.
Alas, Lopez isn’t walking through that door; therefore, my dream of a a true “Twin Towers” frontline — as Joel Przybilla can only do one thing well at the 4, which is set hard picks up top — is just a pie in the sky wish.
Dear Paul Allen:
Waive Patty Mills & sign Ime Udoka.
Sincerely,
AK1984
Tomorrow will say quite a bit about this team
Oklahoma City is a much improved club and we will be on a back to back. I will be impressed with this team if they can get the W.
if these problems-- perimeter D, pick and roll D, failure to get Oden in good positions offensively etc.
are still this prevalent at midseason, I will be call for Nate’s job.
Not just Nate but players too.
The Kings have the best bench I’ve seen. There are easily 14 guys on this team good enough for every bench in the league. Now if we could only get some starters, I’d totally jizz in my pants.
Kings fan
by dyshooter182 on Oct 31, 2009 8:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Wouldn't it be amusing if you could do a WifeSwaping scenario with the coaches?
See what Adelman could do with this group?
Hypothetically, pretend Nate is the problem
If that’s true, he needed to leave at least a year go. It’s going to take a while to erase some of the work and fix the existing problems. It may cut into any championship window that might or might not exist.
That doesn’t mean that, in the hypothetical situation, you don’t let Nate go. It means that there’s culpability in the front office for not catching this sooner.
All hypothetical of course. Nate’s accomplishments and failures are all up for debate. Eventually anyway.
i really think it is Blake he cannot do the pick n roll
at all he should be a reserve to Miller who can get Oden and LMA going often and early
How the hell did that happen? I am Trailblazer fan to the core but I love me some OKC THunder!!! Must be the Hometown pride I feel.
I'll Say it now so you guys can know I'm a true follower: "In Pioli I Trust"
Go Chiefs!!!!!
offense nor defend the pick and roll
How the hell did that happen? I am Trailblazer fan to the core but I love me some OKC THunder!!! Must be the Hometown pride I feel.
I'll Say it now so you guys can know I'm a true follower: "In Pioli I Trust"
Go Chiefs!!!!!
Steve Blake doesn't offer much at fighting through screens, either, which is as big of a problem ...
defensively for him as his inability to stay in front of quicker, more mobile dribble-drive point guards. It not only takes agility and speed for a point guard to be good defensively, but also strength. I thought it was bad enough in Seattle with Luke Ridnour, who lacked the strength; yet, regarding Portland, Blake sucks in both regards. I’ll keep blabbing about it until I’m blue in the face, but Kirk Hinrich would patch so many holes that exist in Portland’s perimeter defense it’s not even funny anymore.
Dear Paul Allen:
Waive Patty Mills & sign Ime Udoka.
Sincerely,
AK1984
yes yes yesyesy eys
How the hell did that happen? I am Trailblazer fan to the core but I love me some OKC THunder!!! Must be the Hometown pride I feel.
I'll Say it now so you guys can know I'm a true follower: "In Pioli I Trust"
Go Chiefs!!!!!
I would like to go to USC.
Looks nice.
The Kings have the best bench I’ve seen. There are easily 14 guys on this team good enough for every bench in the league. Now if we could only get some starters, I’d totally jizz in my pants.
Kings fan
by dyshooter182 on Oct 31, 2009 8:37 PM PDT up reply actions
And a pick to close it out!
Now I can Halloween party in peace!
I hate Comcast.
Card carrying member of Team Bayless
I believe in Greg Oden
by blazeraddict on Oct 31, 2009 8:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Maybe I should just watch baseball instead...
yay…roid rage.
The Kings have the best bench I’ve seen. There are easily 14 guys on this team good enough for every bench in the league. Now if we could only get some starters, I’d totally jizz in my pants.
Kings fan
I KNOW!
See what happens when the Blazers lose…
The Kings have the best bench I’ve seen. There are easily 14 guys on this team good enough for every bench in the league. Now if we could only get some starters, I’d totally jizz in my pants.
Kings fan
by dyshooter182 on Oct 31, 2009 8:40 PM PDT up reply actions
usually i'd be pretty down right about now but it's still so early.
i mean dang look at cleveland. so yeah =D
by portlandgiirl91 on Oct 31, 2009 8:42 PM PDT up reply actions
you just dropped a ray of sunshine on our cloudy forum
I would give it all up for a billion dollars
by Tyler Durrden on Oct 31, 2009 8:42 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm just watching a Montel Healthmaster infomecial now.
Mmm..vegetables…
The Kings have the best bench I’ve seen. There are easily 14 guys on this team good enough for every bench in the league. Now if we could only get some starters, I’d totally jizz in my pants.
Kings fan
by dyshooter182 on Oct 31, 2009 8:43 PM PDT up reply actions
ewww how you gunna be craving veggies when it's halloween dude
by portlandgiirl91 on Oct 31, 2009 8:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Huh?
Oh I don’t eat candy. Not much of a sweet tooth. I prefer salty snacks.
The Kings have the best bench I’ve seen. There are easily 14 guys on this team good enough for every bench in the league. Now if we could only get some starters, I’d totally jizz in my pants.
Kings fan
by dyshooter182 on Oct 31, 2009 8:46 PM PDT up reply actions
wow Dwight Jaynes dressed up as Lex Luthor for halloween
I would give it all up for a billion dollars
Turrible Turrible Turrible
I'm a little confused by your tactics
by oderiferous emanations 74 on Oct 31, 2009 8:43 PM PDT reply actions
whatever...
crap 3 hours. cya
The Kings have the best bench I’ve seen. There are easily 14 guys on this team good enough for every bench in the league. Now if we could only get some starters, I’d totally jizz in my pants.
Kings fan
Oh, I’m not that concerned about the loss. I predicted a loss. I was more frustrated because the same ol’ same ol’ pick and roll defense and not closing out on three point shooters killed us. Just couldn’t get over that hump.
free bayless
I'm definitely frustrated as well
It’s all spillover from last year, actually. It feels like the exact same team.
it’s frustrating that it’s the same issues and problems.. History repeats itself. We don’t get out of the first round unless we actually address what is wrong.
free bayless
I'd be interested in KP's and Nate's response to a simple question
“In what areas have the team improved compared to last year?”
I suspect KP would be brutally honest. But he’d also say (somewhat reasonably) that it’s too early to make any real judgments. This could be part of a bigger plan we don’t see.
Of course, the problem is that it goes from “too early” to “too late” very quickly.
it’s a young team that hasn’t improved at all from last year.
I think a big factor is Oden’s continued hazing. The replacement refs didn’t call so many fouls. Some of the calls are nuts, it’s like he’s called just because he’s Greg Oden.
free bayless
Greg seems to have a very bad rep among the refs
As I mentioned in the game thread, there would be a very different Shaq if he was ref’d through his career like Oden is so far. (That doesn’t mean Oden would become Shaq with better reffing, of course.)
You're spooking me! STOP!
"I won't back down." -- Tom Petty
"History is important. If you don't know history it is as if you were born yesterday. And, if you were born yesterday, anybody up there in a position of power can tell you anything, and you have no way of checking up on it." -- Howard Zinn
OT: Mareese Speights with another double double, 20 and 10. The man is a real*baller.
But slowly things happen that they cannot help and the Blazers Fellowship of the Ring begins to break apart
This cannot continue
For the simple fact that I cannot take Bill Simmons being smug about his 41-41 prediction. It will take about 2 more losses and he will be claiming vindication just like he predicted on twitter.
I cannot see this happen. Win streak – now please. (anyone who wants to being up the fact we have the Hawks and Spurs coming up should just shhhhhhhh.) Thinking happy thoughts……
The charade needs to end
Start miller.
"I saw him in the face" Sergio's quote on the latest alley-oop to Rudy.
Nate McMillan
This guy needs to figure out to do with the players not named Roy and Aldridge.
Outlaw, Fernandez, Webster, Blake, Miller… no one knows their roles on offense. Oden and Pryz are playing fine but fouling a bit too much, but the role players are looking completely uncoached and lost.
Nate should contact Adelman
to figure out how he coached a bunch of non-starters into the starting line up and still win against a team that is loaded with talent, tall, and long. Brooks, Hayes, Scola, and Ariza were all non-starters until recently.
Yeah, anyone who knows Travis Outlaw's history understood that opening night was an anomaly.
Dear Paul Allen:
Waive Patty Mills & sign Ime Udoka.
Sincerely,
AK1984
Nate McSofty needs to get a few technicals!!!
Every time Oden gets a bad call Nate needs to get in a refs face and take a few T’s. That is how the NBA works and Greg will continue to get bad calls until his Coach steps up. Andre Miller looks terrible so far, why is an experienced PG taking so many bad shots? I’m starting to miss Sergio at this point and his ability to get the offense going even when he couldn’t hit a shot.
May I offer an analogy?
I have a good friend who thinks Nate is a poor coach and I am getting tired of defending him,I am going to have to listen to him grind on me about it and there is not much I can say positive about Nate at this point. He made the very valid point that even though he is a computer wiz with several degrees he is a lousy teacher,Nate was a fine defender,he seems to be unable to teach[coach?] defense
by southern oregon on Oct 31, 2009 9:05 PM PDT reply actions
Random question
At the end of last year, Nate switched to the “First seven or last seven” offense, where the team looked to score in the first seven seconds, and if there was noting, set up and wait for the last seven seconds.
I’ve only seen more 1 game so far, and the offense was all slow-down. Has 7-or-7 offense been abandoned? Postponed until he can integrate all the new players?
I hadn’t seen it come up yet, just wondered.
here is an idea, how bout we score when we have the best opportunity.
That being said I was more concerned about our D tonight. We just gave them too much.
Outscored in fast break points and points in the paint again.
I didn’t watch the game, but it seems like the Blazers defense was doing their usual disappearance on the road. Par for the course in the McMillan era. I’m not going to talk more about the problems with coaching on both the defensive and offensive end. This season could be a real eye opener for a lot of people.
"I'm at the thingamajig talking the yakety-yak" - Kenny Smith
FLUSH
Flush the toilet and turn on the fan and open the windows to get the stink out.
To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead. -- Thomas Paine, US patriot & political philosopher (1737 - 1809)
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