Has anyone else watched Lawson and Blair and wondered what would have been?

by rip_city_swagger on Oct 30, 2009 11:00 AM PDT Comment 43 comments

I know we're only 2 games into the NBA season, and I'm definitely not an advocate of jerk reactions or jumping to premature conclusions. And I love the moves KP and the Blazers have made the past few years. But I can't help but wonder why the Blazers passed on Tywon Lawson and DeJuan Blair in the NBA draft.

I understand what their strategy allegedly was, taking a prospect to develop in Europe (and keep off the payroll), a banger backup 4 to develop, a versatile guy like Cunningham who could step in if Martel wasn't back 100% - I get that.

But going into this season, we needed upgrades/help at the point and at the backup 4. We could have drafted both Lawson and Blair with the picks that we had, with minor draft board movement required - if at all. I understand that we felt we already had a young team and wanted to add veteran players (and that Nate didn't want any more rookies), but both Lawson and Blair were very accomplished (All-American status) players that had played for major programs and competed at the highest level for several years, including in the NCAA tournament - so they weren't your average (inexperienced/raw) rookies.

And I can't help but watch them now and wonder why we passed. We threw a TON of money at Paul Millsap, and so far DeJuan Blair looks like the will be just as effective in the NBA, and we could have got him for a rookie contract of what, $1M/year? And Lawson's speed and open-court ability are ridiculous....would have been a great change-of-pace from Blake or Miler. What stings even more - these two guys went to Western Conference opponents and rivals - double ouch.

Do you think the Blazers made the right move in passing, or are you with me and wish we would hhave grabbed these guys?

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Yes, I have watched them and wondered

I’ve also done the same with Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Brook Lopez and Kevin Durant. I shouldn’t do this to myself, but I do.

by jksnake99 on Oct 30, 2009 11:09 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs

don't forget Jordan

and Moses Malone

"And in the end
The love you take
Is equal to the love you make." -The Beatles

by 92wastheyear on Oct 30, 2009 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs

Moses was before my time, but believe me-- I haven't forgotten Jordan either.

by jksnake99 on Oct 30, 2009 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

ummm

I think the feeling about Blair has been voiced amply on this website. As to Lawson, he was the 18th pick in a draft where we had the 22nd choice. We could have traded up for him, but it’s pretty unlikely he would have gotten any run as a 3rd PG.

by atomiccafe on Oct 30, 2009 11:10 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I think the idea is that if we drafted Lawson we wouldn't have signed Miller

So Lawson might get significant playing time as a 2nd PG.

by trk on Oct 30, 2009 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

We'd have still signed Miller. There was no other FA's left.

by BlazerFanSince1970 on Oct 31, 2009 2:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

not the 'free" kind, anyway

there was “sign David Lee and hope the Knicks don’t match”

and Lamar Odom, but how could he ever leave Khloe?

Or, bank the capspace and try for a “lopsided” trade later. There were quite a few advocates for door #3 as I recall, before the Miller signing was announced

Did Jack—err!—KP trade the family cow for magic beans? Stay tuned…

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Oct 31, 2009 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Remember they tried to get Lee and talked to Odom before they signed Miller.

Lee wasn’t interested in a backup role and and Odom never really wanted to leave LA. Miller was the bottom of the barrel. As far as banking the the cap space, there was no reason to wait. We had the cap space and the ability to trade Outlaw. There was either no one interested or KP was simply unwilling.

After watching Outlaw play defense tonight, and complete his second straight 1-8 shooting game, you’ve got to consider suiting up the family cow since Nate only played Webster 15 minutes.

by BlazerFanSince1970 on Nov 1, 2009 1:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah but that was before the season

now seeing Blair playing well in actual NBA games clarifies that picture a bit, as opposed to just speculating how effective he would be. and yeah, if we drafted Lawson we probably won’t have got Miller, but even if we did Lawson would have been in the same role Bayless is in now, but with a more fitting skill set

by rip_city_swagger on Oct 30, 2009 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

It didn't really require "speculation" to tell how good Blair would be

It’s a rule of thumb in the NBA that rebounding is the ability that most reliably translates from level to level. If you can rebound the ball, you can rebound the ball. Practically everyone projected Blair as the best rebounder in the draft. Concerns about his height coming out of the pre-draft camp were silly: there’s many, many cases of wide-bodied, vertically-challenged players who have dominated on the boards in the NBA. Barkley, Millsap, Maxiell, Paul Silas, Wes Unseld—it’s a long list.

Of course, there’s the well-documented concerns about Blair’s knees. That was probably a more legitimate concern. But legitimate enough to pass on him TWICE in the second round? Come on: according to Blair’s coach at Pitt, he never missed so much as a practice due to knee trouble.

Were there other concerns? Character? Drug use? Maybe so; we’re not GM’s and privy to inside info. But clearly the Spurs weren’t concerned. Now this kid is not only making KP and all the other GM’s who passed on him look silly, but he’s strengthening one of the Blazers’ chief Western Conference rivals. Great.

The worst thing I’ve heard to date: Blair’s veteran teammates don’t call him “Rook.” They refer to him as “The Beast.” As I said: great. This after KP announced that the #! lesson he took from the Rocket’s playoff series was that the Blazers need to get tougher and more physical.

"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla

by hurryup09 on Oct 31, 2009 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Were there other concerns? Character? Drug use?

Well, since Ben isn’t sayin’ the best intel we have is from Mike Rice, who’s son coaches at Pitt. Rice said they had to have an assistant coach follow DeJuan around and make sure he wasn’t over-eating. Maybe the Blazers were concerned that they would draft the next “Dinner Bel” Mel Turpin?

Your last sentence sums up my feelings pretty well. During the summer league telecasts I heard KP and Chad Buchanon both say they targeted Pendergraph and Cunningham in the draft and were glad they were available in the second round. They also said that these two players would bring toughness to the Blazer’s bench.

My observation, so far? There’s tough, then there’s Blair tough

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Oct 31, 2009 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

nope

"And in the end
The love you take
Is equal to the love you make." -The Beatles

by 92wastheyear on Oct 30, 2009 11:12 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I think what would have been better would have been...

getting rid of some pieces in the Hinrich trade, having a defensive PG to play alongside Roy to make up for his deficiencies, and to have signed David Lee to have a 4 man big rotation.

by Escrote on Oct 30, 2009 11:20 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, terrible that we passed on a guy

who went at 18 when we had pick 22. I’m also lamenting passing on Blake Griffin after watching LA these past two games. And I really think passing on Derrick Rose was a mistake last year.

by Royster on Oct 30, 2009 11:26 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

if you need a PG moving up 4 spots in the later part of the 1st round to get the right guy isn't a big deal

and has nothing to do with moving up to #1 which would cost us some major talent and other assets

by rip_city_swagger on Oct 30, 2009 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Denver did move up with the Wolves, but offered a Bobcats pick that we didn't have

But slowly things happen that they cannot help and the Blazers Fellowship of the Ring begins to break apart

by Norsktroll on Oct 30, 2009 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

true, but if we gave them Bayless and a pick next season I think they would have taken it

by rip_city_swagger on Oct 30, 2009 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

There were reason's for Blair

Lawson was at 18. It’s possible the cost of moving up wasn’t worth it. It’s also possible the blazers know more than us on this. Maybe not.

"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.

But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html

"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez

by ratbastird on Oct 30, 2009 11:29 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

My what could have been...

Signing Bass and Trading for Hinrich

Trade players for picks and draft Cole Aldrich 2010

by jlarose78 on Oct 30, 2009 11:49 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

We also may have had Lawson as a trade, don't forget. The draft wasn't the only opportunity.

by mowensmd on Oct 30, 2009 12:13 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I hear ya

The Blazers really could use Blair’s rebounding ability. It’s a definite weakness in the Blazer’s game.

by tominhawaii on Oct 30, 2009 12:21 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs

Yup!

I just thnik that when we made such a strong play for Millsap to get the same “effect”, why would we pass on a guy that was way more affordable and available when we picked. Even if he doesn’t completely pan out he’s only a backup 4. We drafted John Brockman and traded him before Blair went off the board.

by rip_city_swagger on Oct 30, 2009 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Rebounding is a weakness for the Blazers?

I was under the impression the Blazers are one the best rebounding teams in the league.
Please prove me wrong if you can.

Chuck Norris' tears cure cancer. Too bad he has never cried.

by FiveOhThree-RipCity!! on Oct 30, 2009 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Rec'd for awesomeness

I don’t care what everyone in the Junk Drawer says, you haven’t lost your touch.

πάτερ, ἄφες αὐτοῖς, οὐ γὰρ οἴδασιν τί ποιοῦσιν.

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by T Darkstar on Oct 30, 2009 5:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Cunningham........Pendergraph?

Lawson would have been too high a price to pay. No team in the NBA was going to give the Blazers any deals this draft. Freeland, Fernandez, Batum and Sergio were all basically just handed over to us.

Every other team in the league passed on Blair. His skill-set was never an issue, it’s his knees. While in College he had horrible eating habits. Once his season ended he started seeing a nutritionist to correct his habits. I could see this causing red flags. If he stays in shape and healthy he’ll be a stud, but….How many 6-7 overweight PF’s really make it in the NBA? It’s great to start eating healthy and really getting in shape for the draft and rookie season but will he keep it up?

San Antonio was in a unique spot in that all their big guys are old. Their not going to want to grind through the regular season. If Blair can stay inshape and be ready there will be games where he’ll get his minutes. Unless LA got hurt Blair wouldn’t of seen any playing time except garbage minutes. Would a guy with a history of not being in shape go a whole year of riding the pine without falling back to old habits? Daunte and Jeff are crazy athletes that the Blazers staff doesn’t have to worry about what they eat or if their going to get the most out of every workout.

Blair is now in a position that he could play well enough to take over as the starting PF long term for the Spurs. That would never of happened for Portland. He would have been playing to get traded or leave on Free Agency when he really got good. It just seems to be a better fit for the Spurs.

by BlazerKuttn on Oct 30, 2009 12:39 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

ok...

Lawson could have been had, not expecting anyone to hand us anything, but I guarantee if we had sent Bayless and our pick we could have had him…and he fits a position of need way more than Bayless does. He was traded to Denver, so it’s not like the team that drafted him HAD to have him.

I think you’re overestimating Blair’s weight and eating issues. If they were problems it was hard to tell as he was a 1st Team All-American and was right there with Hansbrough as the best college post in the country. The knee issues definitely scared some teams off, but we could have taken him, what, 31st overall? That’s a very low-risk/high-reward situation getting a guy like that so late in the draft. That’s why the Spurs are considered to be such a great drafting team, specifically because of moves like this.

I liked Cunnigham a lot in college and definitely wasn’t dissapointed when we drafted him, but he plays a position that we have 3 young, talented guys at right now. He’s not big enough to play 4, and we have Travis who is essentially the same player, but better.

I like Pendergraph too, but Blair was such a better overall player coming out of school it wasn’t even close.

On playing time, you say Blair would never see time, but with foul trouble, Juwan Howard has already seen some substantial minutes that would have gone to Blair if we had him. And if playing time IS such a big issue being behind LMA, why did we offer a huge contract to Millsap? I just don’t think that was the deal-breaker.

by rip_city_swagger on Oct 30, 2009 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

i believe

Denver’s GM was reported as being one with a grudge against KP. That being a case, it’s likely he wouldn’t have cared to make a trade.

I’m fairly certain that KP was thwarted a number of times because he looked rather frustrated this draft and over the summer.

As for Millsap, I REALLY don’t think that was a serious move. Sure we’d take that talent if hte Jazz handed it to us, but that wasn’t going to happen.

But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html

"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez

by ratbastird on Oct 30, 2009 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Millsap, I REALLY don’t think that was a serious move.

Nate and Millsap had several lengthy phone conversations about his potential “role” with the Blazers before Millsap accepted Portland’s offer. Then, KP tied up the teams capspace for a week during prime FA season while waiting for Utah to decide to match the toxic offer

the Millsap offer sheet was as serious as a heart attack

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Oct 30, 2009 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

It was serious in the sense Nate and KP would love to have Millsap in their rotation

Serious in the sense they would have been a serious Pritch-slap to steal away a division rivals stud.
That doesn’t mean they weren’t have conversations amongst themselves about how their offer would affect the Jazz. It would be like someone offering Batum or Rudy double of what the market is paying other Free-Agents when they become restricted Free-Agents. LA would have had the same thing happen to him if he would have went in as a restricted FA next summer. You can’t go higher than Max Contract but no one would have let the Blazers stick it too him for 8-10 mil a year.

The Jazz couldn’t let Millsap go for nothing just like the Blazers would be crazy to let any of their quality draft picks to do the same. Thats why you don’t let that happen. Granted Millsap only proved himself because of Boozer’s injury which was after the option to extend his contract.

by BlazerKuttn on Oct 30, 2009 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Denver?

The Twolves drafted Lawson 18th and sent him to Denver, so Denver’s GM wouldn’t have had a say in it anyway. And I’m sure with Minnys perimeter woes that they would have gladly taken a guy like Bayless in return.

Millsap offer was serious, you don’t sign a guy to an offer sheet of that size if you’re not totally prepared to sign him

by rip_city_swagger on Oct 30, 2009 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think we offered Millsap that contract to actually sign him

We were the only team that had the room to offer Millsap that contract. The Jazz would have been able to really stick it too him. Sessions got around 4 mil. same with Bass. The Jazz were waiting to see what the market was. He would have been great to have but how would he have gotten enough playing time? Maybe if the Jazz are that concerned about payroll then having to pay Millsap more than they wanted too discouraged them from picking up a free-agent with the Mid level exception, just a theory of mine.

Blair may be a better than Pendergraph but that doesn’t mean he was a better fit. Pendergraph wanted to become a Blazer. He wanted and somewhat expected to be the Blazers’ first round pick. I can’t say I know any different from Blair but I don’t recall Blair visiting Portland for a workout. Pendergraph may not have as high of a ceiling but he might end up more valuable in the long run. Pendergraph was the one who got injured before the season began so I could already be wrong on that statement but at draft time it was different.

How can you say Cunningham is too small to play PF and not as good as Outlaw when he outweighs Outlaw by 20lbs. I like Cunningham because he is so similar to his other teammates. Once he learns the system I can see him putting in quality minutes if someone goes down. He’s not as good as Outlaw but I hope not. He’s a second round pick. At this point I don’t think you can say Blair is better than Outlaw. He’s a better rebounder?

I could be overestimating Blair’s weight and eating issues. If he bought into what his nutritionist taught him and continued it then he might never have another issue with it. When he’s only a few months into his transition it’s hard to tell which way he’s gong to go. It’s 4 months later and it looks like he’s doing great.

As for Lawson I just don’t believe any deal KP was getting was fair. You stated how respected the Spurs drafting and scouting team is but the Blazers have turned some heads as well. I don’t think any team wanted to trade the rights to a player Portland wanted at that position. Give us another Batum or Rudy and were pretty scary, right? Denver gave up a conditional pick KP just didn’t have. Why would Minnesota want Bayless when they drafted two P.G.‘s that day. That’s why they drafted him when they did, to trade him for a good draft pick next year. Maybe higher than the 18th pick.

by BlazerKuttn on Oct 30, 2009 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

ok...

maybe we did sign him to screw with Utah, but it was clear we needed a backup 4 either way….

I don’t agree about Pendergraph, just because Blair didn’t work out here doesn’t mean anything. Blair was an All-American and one of the best posts in the country, no question. Pendergraph wasn’t even the best player on Arizona State. He might be serviceable for us, but Blair is a far superior player, period.

On my statement on Cunningham, yes he outweighs Travis, but you can’t underestimate Outlaws length and athletic ability. That’s what allows him to guard bigger guys. Blair is a better rebounder than Travis, but Travis is obviously a superior athlete. Can’t really compare the two. I just think Cunningham is a lot of duplication of Outlaw, whereas Blair would have filled a different role.

On the Spurs…they are known for greta picks, not trades. The Blazers “fleeced” the draft because of trades and moves (see Brandon Roy, LMA, Batum, Rudy, etc.) I think Minnesota would have totally sent us the pick if they got a player like Bayless (#11 overall the year before), and our 1st pick next year. We definitely don’t need the picks anymore.

by rip_city_swagger on Oct 30, 2009 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Unless LA got hurt Blair wouldn’t of seen any playing time except garbage minutes.

In the first 2 games of the season LMA, Joel and Greg have been in foul trouble. Rest assured, if Blair had been available to Nate he would’ve played more than “garbage minutes”

The Blazers still need a banger/beast at PF to backup LMA, who may be tall/talented but has done nothing to shed the “soft” label. DeJuan would’ve been a perfect/cheap option and he only would’ve “cost” KP the 2nd round draft choice that he used on Pendergraph

RC Buford, FTW

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Oct 30, 2009 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I hope LMA, Oden and Joel aren

by BlazerKuttn on Oct 30, 2009 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

arn't in foul trouble all the time

LMA averages high Minutes per game usually. Granted he’s been in foul trouble both games this year but that can’t continue. My statement is a little over exaggerated. Remember though if Batum is in the line-up then maybe Howard isn’t getting as many minutes. Outlaw went off on Scola

by BlazerKuttn on Oct 30, 2009 3:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Howard and Travis aren't the kind of player that Blair is

wide-bodied, space-eater, scrappy, relentless rebounder with a mean streak

all I’m asking for is one of those guys. The Nuggets have Martin and Melo and Nene and the Birdman to bump and grind in the playoffs. Other than Joel and Greg, Portland has tall/skinny guys who really haven’t shown the desire to mix it up

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Oct 30, 2009 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Er, as I commented above, there have been plenty of 6-7 rebounders in the NBA

Wes Unseld, Charles Barkley, Paul Silas (each an all-time great), along with current guys like Millsap, Maxiell, etc. If you have long arms, a strong, wide lower body, a nose for the ball, leaping ability, quickness, desire, & toughness you will get rebounds—even if you’re just 6-4.

As for the idea that Blair wouldn’t have been able to crack the Blazers’ rotation, you might have noticed that he’s already cracked the Spurs’ rotation. And Popovich is notoriously suspicious of rookies.

Sorry: I understand that it’s comforting to think KP didn’t make a massive, inexplicable blunder in passing on DeJuan Blair not once but TWICE in the second round. But it’s becoming unmistakable that he did. There’s nothing to be gained in obsessing about it. But by the same token, denying it at this point is kinda futile.

"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla

by hurryup09 on Oct 31, 2009 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Getting Lawson or Blair

Would not have helped our FT shooting last night. Greg still woulda missed two at the end, and we still woulda lost.

We have the right players (except Outlaw), we just need to play better.

by StuckeyDuck on Oct 30, 2009 2:54 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

i'm not saying they would have made us incredible right away...

but a young PG with that kind of speed and finishing ability (not to mention poise), and a beast banger backup 4, both on cheap rookie-level deals would have helpd us in the long run for sure.

And last night wasn’t on Greg. It should never be on your center to make 2 free throws at the end of the game. We let them back in, and no one could guard Carmelo. Trying to have BRoy guard him in the 4th was ridiculous, especially after all the great D Outlaw was supposed to have played in the opener. He should have been on Melo

by rip_city_swagger on Oct 30, 2009 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

We had to take Pendergraph

We had to take Pendergraph over Blair because of the risk he would….get hurt. Ok, that one didn’t quite work out. Before the draft I liked Lawson since he plays defense and hit 3s and when Blair fell to the 2nd round I was as confused as anyone why we didn’t take him.

Your confusing thesis has captured my attention. Tell me more.

by terryisntbald on Oct 30, 2009 6:11 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs