Batum Shoulder Surgery
by Dave on Oct 26, 2009 12:17 PM PDT
in News
Email
PrintBlazersedge learned this morning, and the Blazers confirmed shortly before noon, that Portland Trail Blazers starting small forward Nic Batum will undergo shoulder surgery on a torn right labrum later this week.
Batum injured his shoulder last season and again this summer while playing for the French national team. He injured it again earlier during training camp, which nearly caused him to miss Fan Fest. Batum injured it yet again during yesterday's practice, according to this report from Joe Freeman. At practice today, Batum stated that he knew surgery was likely for months and that he had hoped to play through the pain.
The team stated Batum's recovery timeline will be determined after surgery however a source close to Batum expects him to miss a substantial portion of the 2009-2010 NBA season.
Batum was in the gym today in sweats but did not practice. His mood was relatively upbeat for the cameras but he was clearly disappointed.
-- Ben (benjamin.golliver@gmail.com)
Update (2PM): Further details from Joe Freeman.
Batum said he has been told that the recovery time for his surgery will be three to five months. That means the best case scenario for his return is early February.
....
But Batum said the pain had gradually become too much to play through over the last two weeks. He routinely aggravated the injury during games and practices, when he would run into screens or have his arm tugged by a defender. He dinged the shoulder in the first quarter of the Blazers' last exhibition game against the Suns on Thursday and the pain had become too much.
754 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
UGHHHH
This is not good.
BUT, trying to look on the bright side: more minutes for Rudy if he’s backing both B-Roy and Martell.
I guess this means we probably don’t trade Travis at the deadline, if Nic isn’t back yet and we still need that depth at the 3.
Somewhere, Rudy Fernandez has a giant smile on his face
Violet Palmer is so much worse than being HIV positive. -staylost
u should have listened to the 955 gmae this am, ben from bedge was on and he said
rudy is the next biggest ? for the team as hes not healthy w back spasms and what not
s
The Princess of Blazersedge
It just takes an iron fist to keep the riff raff under control and her princess hand is mad strong- Idoltime
more minutes for Bayless
Well, well, well. KP is crazy like a fox. What SF logjam? How convenient, last year Webster gets hurt and Nic takes his spot, this year their “roles” reverse.
and reports of Outlaw’s demise in a Blazer uniform have been “greatly exagerated”
All offseason I’ve been saying “if everyone stays healthy…” then KP should thin the herd. Well "everyone didn’t stay healthy. The Euros went and played “basket” during the offseason and either got dinged up (Rudy) or didn’t have time to heal (Batum) Not much can be done about that, now, but the depth that KP has assembled at the wings will come in handy, once again.
If Rudy’s back remains balky, that will open up an opportunity for Jerryd to play his “true” position (SG) and he’ll get minutes alongside a PG (Andre) who is “stout” enough to even defend most 2 guards. The Miller-Bayless backcourt looked dynamic at times during the preseason, and (even though it would seem that the bench will need better outside shooting) they can definitely “up” the tempo when they come into the ballgame.
Now, all we need to do is hope like heck that Greg/Joel/LMA can remain healthy, or that Juwan can discover the fountain of youth. The frontcourt is still not deep enough to overcome a serious injury, and Paul Allen has made sure that KP doesn’t have a remaining roster spot to shore up this area (Patty Mills..what a great idea!)
Godspeed, Nic Batum. “Our” perimeter defense will miss you terribly!
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Patty Mills can be cut any time
The problem with “if everyone stays healthy then KP should thin the herd” is that you never know when injuries will come. If everyone stays healthy and KP thins the herd at the trade deadline, you could have two guys go down with injuries the next week.
I can tell you how to make an Excel spreadsheet that proves Portland wins 62 games this year.
once again
in February, it will depend on what the roster needs for the playoffs
and if KP doesn’t add more PF/C depth at the deadline and “counts” on Howard/Pendergraph “filling in” for Greg/Joel/LMA in the post season, it might not even take an injury to one of these big guys to expose the roster’s weakness. All it would take is for 2 of the “big 3” to get in serious foul trouble at the same time in a key game
We’ll see what Nic’s prognosis is, following surgery. For now, KP’s “gut” still looks golden, if Batum can make it back this spring then an “Outlaw deal” may still be viable. But today we’ve learned (once again) that “roster balance” can turn on a dime, almost without warning. I think the minutes distribution among the wings is already better today, than it was yesterday. But the team’s perimeter defense has taken a huge hit, and would only get worse if Joel/Greg were to go down, at some point of the regular season
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
How many backup 4's are better than Howard?
We can’t all have a Millsap or Blair for backup 4
by blacknoiseNW on Oct 26, 2009 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions
ALL STAR EVERY POSITION DARN IT!!!
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
We could have had blair
I still say that was the biggest mistake of our draft. I don’t care if he’s not on your board because you thought he’d go high, if someone falls 20 picks for no apparent reason you take them.
Things happen for a reason they say, but I say there's a reason things happen.
Oh get over it already
Blair isn’t a Blazer, deal with it!
But seriously, if 28 other teams passed on him for a giant red flag on his knees, and noting that Portland is known for catostrophic injuries to it’s big men, do you really think we needed that over our heads?
Blazers win!
Yeah, I got my ranting out of my system on that one. Gotta move on
"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla
Then Travis would start now :)
But slowly things happen that they cannot help and the Blazers Fellowship of the Ring begins to break apart
by Norsktroll on Oct 26, 2009 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I really hope that Joel and Greg don't defend the perimeter!!!
I see them more in the post ;)
I agree our defense just took a hit.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
no shot blocking
poor perimeter defense
the two go hand in hand. I think Dave covered this is his season preview article, posted last night
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
You miss my point entirely
“Thinning the herd” contingent on health is impossible, because you don’t know who is going to stay healthy and who is going to get hurt.
KP could have made a trade to thin the herd the day before yesterday and we’d have a mess.
I can tell you how to make an Excel spreadsheet that proves Portland wins 62 games this year.
no, I didn't miss your point
Thinning the herd" contingent on health is impossible,
“Not” thinning the herd due to fear of injury sounds like a new kind of phobia
In this case, KP had more intel on the severity of Nic’s shoulder than was released to the media. Good for KP to cool his jets and not deal Travis, back in July
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
As much as you were calling on him to do so....
Wonder what he knew about Blair that we don’t know.
It’s usually safer to second-guess a coach than a GM. There are so many things a GM knows that we don’t see. When you second-guess a coach, you can at least see what the players are doing on the court in games, which narrows the “info” gap considerably.
I can tell you how to make an Excel spreadsheet that proves Portland wins 62 games this year.
but who wants to "play it safe"?
Blazer fans have been second-guessing Stu Inman on the LaRue Martin and Sam Bowie drafts, for years. The fact that Portland won the championship in ’77 bought Stu a lot of “insulation”
KP had the great ‘06 draft and was struck by lightning in ’07 when the team won the lottery. He’s on an extended “honeymoon” with Blazer fans—because everyone remembers the fallout from the Jail Blazers era—but that doesn’t mean that everything he touches automatically turns into gold
I’d much rather have a objective discourse about the Blazer’s current roster situation than read about KP being an unassailable “master-slapper” because of moves that he made 2-3 years ago. If my “tone” is perceived as being negative, then that’s a chance I’ll have to take (it’s a vehicle to balance-out the hyper-optimism, if nothing else) but rest assured, my only desire is to watch the Blazers have years of playoff success, and my “suggestions” will (almost) always have this goal as their main objective
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I am also happy we have professionals with vastly more data available who make these decisions
Rather than respond to the label a “homer” for KP I prefer to acknowledge the organization’s strengths. If we were rooting for a team like the Detroit Lions or the LA Clippers then we would point to the very lack of professional success as reason to doubt current and future moves. In our case there is no franchise that has done so well in recent years.
It was not 2-3 years ago but last year that the Blazers surprised the knowing fans by drafting Batum and Bayless. Batum paid dividends immediately and Bayless may yet prove his value, especially if Rudy cannot play. Most observers acknowledge Dante as a great pick for the spot. Jeff is hurt and we will see how he does when he returns. I trust he is a better fit for the team than any other we could have drafted because there is no reason to question the professional skills of the organization at this time.
"Either way we have two phenomenal units. I'm excited to play with either one." - Martell Webster
"In KP we trust"
good for you
As for me, I’ll continue to verify. (You can certainly choose to “block” my replies, if you wish)
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Joel/Greg WILL go down at some point
Was there a single team last season who had 2 centers combine for 164 games? (82 games each) Big men get hurt. Hopefully neither misses a long stretch.
Joel played every game last year actually
I think that taking the pressure off both with Oden playing better helps keep them healthy.
"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely
ewww
“godspeed”
"Rudy’s flashy passes had the place whispering to each other like we were in junior high" ~BlazermaniacAndy
by courtsideerrandboy on Oct 26, 2009 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions
godspeed you black emperor!
Without you out there, we're nowhere here
by 22baylor on Oct 26, 2009 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
Why?
Rudy is 6’5’’ and lanky. He’s more likely to play the point than the 3. He might improve his on-ball defense, but he’ll never be able to guard the likes of Carmelo Anthony, Kevin Durant, or other good 3s in the league. None of the other 3s the PTBs have on the roster will either. The team’s in big trouble defensively.
Rudy to the two, Brandon to the three.
I really hope the games start streaming on Blazers.com soon.
If I had to term the present situation, it would have to be a series of unfortunate events.
more accurately:
offense: Roy 2, Rudy 3
defense: Rudy 2, Roy 3
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
how heavy is Tayshaun Prince? Heck, how heavy is Nicolas Batum?
I really hope the games start streaming on Blazers.com soon.
If I had to term the present situation, it would have to be a series of unfortunate events.
So Brandon is going to end up 7-8 pounds lighter than them (I’m assuming a modest weight gain of a few pounds) and much more muscular.
I really hope the games start streaming on Blazers.com soon.
If I had to term the present situation, it would have to be a series of unfortunate events.
It's rather the height that he gives up than the weight, and that he isn't that great of a defender to begin with.
Sure we can manage it, but there is not talking away that Nic is the best perimeter 1 on 1 defender on the team already. It will seriously diminish our chances against physical wings unless Martell can make a big big jump on that end. We can hope Nic is ready in mid-March.
Brandon guarded the big guns down the stretch already… he was on LeBron, Kobe, etc.
It does suck. Martell needs to be adequate defensively to make this not the worst thing ever.
I really hope the games start streaming on Blazers.com soon.
If I had to term the present situation, it would have to be a series of unfortunate events.
martell never got the credit
he deserved for his improved defense he played his last season before he was out. I was looking at the team with fresh eyes as I hadn’t been folloing them in the jailblazers years(i moved to town over that span). Anyhow i watched a few of their games and thought martell played the most intense defense, aside from Joel, on the team. Then i started reading some of the boards and he was bashed time and again. The way i see it is people still remember when he was not putting the time in on D and were slow to recognize his improvement and now that he has been out a season it has just plain been forgotten. He will come around by december i bet..
"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man
You're probably right about that.
But, regarding your earlier comment: Tayshaun and Batum have length and team defense.
This is why I have been advocating trading both Batum and Rudy
The Euro games prevented Rudy from working this preseason and Batum is now out for lord knows how long.
Both Batum and Rudy need to be must be traded before the Olympics.
The Olympics are right in the middle of Portland’s window, and two key players will be useless. Trade high now!
Thin the heard!
by tominhawaii on Oct 26, 2009 12:20 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I hear they are a team
in the 2 man bobsled.
And that can really screw up your jumpshot…….
"I'm a man, but I can change.....if I have to......I guess." - Red Green
by antediluvian on Oct 26, 2009 6:09 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree
it’ll be quieter around here with less heards.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
by ratbastird on Oct 26, 2009 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I meant to do that
I’m serious though. Look at the Spurs last year.
Batum and Rudy are the Roy’s of their respective Euro teams and Roy’s get banged up. Imagine if Roy does the Olympics too.
At least the Blazers will get a high draft pick in 2013.
by tominhawaii on Oct 26, 2009 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions
I know exactly what you're saying
that lack of rest definitely effects teams and players.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
so many things...
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
all part of the marketing
remember this is a business, blazer management wants these international players, given that I am happy we have who we have. I see your point, but don’t expect a change…
"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man
the season
The Princess of Blazersedge
It just takes an iron fist to keep the riff raff under control and her princess hand is mad strong- Idoltime
Rather think 4 months to the whole season
Same injury Jameer Nelson and Raef had. He likely should have had the surgery after the season, latest after it flared up during the Eurobasket/-qualification.
This changes everything...
So now we’ll start Webster with Outlaw behind and LMA will be backed up by Juwan.. kinda iffy about Howard playing a bigger role though he looked solid in preseason…
We’ll have to see how this works out.
Lets hope Nic has a fast recovery.
no, we'll got 9 man rotation similar to last year
just like last year. Outlaw will play the primary minutes at both the 3 and 4, and this will open up more time for 3-guard lineups as well.
That said, this is bad. Nic is by far and away our best (only?) perimeter defender. Second guessing will run rampant, but it’s looking like maybe we should have done the surgery a month ago.
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
I'm also thinking
This should have been taken care of much earlier. They could’ve started rehab weeks ago if they had handled it in a timely manner. Waiting until the eve of preseason is wasteful. I don’t trust the doctor’s time lines. They were consistently wrong, and glaringly so, about the recovery for both Oden and Martell. This is the advantage of depth though. While batum was our best 3, Martel will slide into the position, and leave backup minutes to play roy at the position with Rudy at the two, and to play outlaw for backup pf and sf minutes. If Rudy goes down, Bayless better be ready to step up to the plate.
from Ben's Twitter
Batum says he knew surgery would likely be necessary for past few months, had hoped to play through injury.
arrghhhhh…that’s me, not Ben on Twitter btw
see, this is what ticks me off
if surgery was always likely, why not do it right after the Eurobasket? We wasted over a month
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
remember all the angst over flying him home to check on it?
i don’t get it…i just don’t get it
Yeah that's what I'm trying to resist talking about
I’m wondering if the delay made sense, but then I’m not a doctor…
Hard not to be upset about this...
wish this would have been done over the summer. Let’s hope Nic is back in February. Travis survives another season :)
Bring on the Rockets !!!
"That's just how I get down"........ Andre Miller
It was Nic who decided not to have surgery
A team cannot force a player to undergo surgery.
"Either way we have two phenomenal units. I'm excited to play with either one." - Martell Webster
well according to some online sources
I googled, the first treatment for an injury like this is simply rest and anti-inflammatory medication. I would have to assume they have been doing that and it had been working as Nic continued to play. The reinjuries are the problem, which makes since to have the surgery now after another reinjury in practice.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
he just said that he’s reinjured it nearly every game since he first hurt it in March.
I really hope the games start streaming on Blazers.com soon.
If I had to term the present situation, it would have to be a series of unfortunate events.
by Cablinasian on Oct 26, 2009 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions
I am befuddled.
I really hope the games start streaming on Blazers.com soon.
If I had to term the present situation, it would have to be a series of unfortunate events.
Ditto.
In my head, I’m questioning the trainers, and the fact he played in Europe over the Summer. And the trip for the MRI. Everything.
I just don’t see a point in railing about all of it though… I’m hoping for a little more clarity over the next few days.
A year ago, Martell went in for surgery and everyone was catatonic. It worked out ok.
I just feel like we wasted six months of summer.
I really hope the games start streaming on Blazers.com soon.
If I had to term the present situation, it would have to be a series of unfortunate events.
the interview I just heard on 95.5 was pretty damning. They decided to let him play through the injury, roll the dice with it. He said it got worse over the summer and really started to be intolerable over the last two weeks.
I really hope the games start streaming on Blazers.com soon.
If I had to term the present situation, it would have to be a series of unfortunate events.
I never want to see the words "injury" and "roll the dice" in the same sentence.
Especially over a Summer.
I sure hope there’s a good explanation coming. I’m trying to make sure I don’t get worked up.
that interview was very tough to listen to. I give the team the benefit of the doubt until full information is available, but it doesn’t look good right now. If he has the surgery in April he is finishing rehab right now.
I really hope the games start streaming on Blazers.com soon.
If I had to term the present situation, it would have to be a series of unfortunate events.
The Portland Trail Blazers have a poor track record with ...
handling injuries and proper rehabilitation.
Dear Paul Allen:
Waive Patty Mills & sign Ime Udoka.
Sincerely,
AK1984
by AK1984 on Oct 26, 2009 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
The interview with Nic said he decided not to have surgery
There is no point in piling on the team when the player must agree.
Remember the Toronto issue with Garbajosa when the team did not want him to play for Spain with an injury and the team ended up alienating the player until he refused to come back and was cut?
The team also is required by the NBA to support international play for its players.
"Either way we have two phenomenal units. I'm excited to play with either one." - Martell Webster
We are the worst.
*Unless KP has a secret plan that makes this statement incorrect.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
I don't
They took the same approach with Roy’s heel and it seems to have worked just fine. I’m pretty sure everyone was screaming for Roy to have surgery when it flared up; even though most people didn’t know what kind of surgery fixes a heel problem or how long it takes to recover.
Playing for the French team was very important to Batum. I’m pretty sure he had a vote in whether or not to have the surgery.
The blazers seem to avoid Surgery until it is absolutely necessary...
Can’t say I blame them for that. Up until about a week ago, Batum had been playing, and playing well. Rest didn’t work, but it was worth a try. He will be back….
should have done when he sustained the injury
I was pretty skeptical the whole summer after they had fly into portland…this is a result of the business side of signing international players, one we will have to live with…
"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man
I think Howard will be more than fine.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
ill be surprised if Howard starts in the rotation
I’m seeing 9 man rotation now:
1: Blake 20, Miller 28
2: Roy 34, Rudy 14
3: Martell 24, Rudy 16, Outlaw 8
4: LMA 34, Outlaw 16
5: Greg 30, Joel 18
If Rudy is not ready to go, then Bayless gets the 14 minuts at the 2 spot, Outlaw trades his minutes at the 4 for Rudy’s minutes at the 3, and Howard gets Outlaw’s minutes at the 4.
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
bad quick math on my part
Outlaw’s minutes at the 4 should be 14, not 16
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
The 6-guys-on-the-court play
It worked last year. It can work this year.
Nope
They closed that loophole. Call it the Portland Clause.
"My shoulder is OK. And away we go." -- Nic Batum
by DonkeyShins on Oct 27, 2009 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions
That sounds
About right.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
Rudy is ready to go
He practiced yesterday, he’s fine.
"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely
I agree
Howard will be fine, particularly with what we have been used to behind aldridge…
Outlaw is a better 3 than for, just his style is more fitted to the 3…I would rather not see him as the 4…this ultimately means aldridge will be on the floor with both the first and second units the longest in the early parts of games, just like last season…Howard is good for oden out there anyway…
"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man
I still can't believe the Nashes are starting Frye at Center
unbelievable…
"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man
Does anyone feel worse now that we missed out on Hedo?
…
…
…
…nah, me either.
Yes! Yes! In the face!
by LeafHawk on Oct 26, 2009 12:23 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
you mean that we were saved from him?
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
nah, i still feel pretty stoked about it
Columbus til I die, Columbus til I die. I know I am, I swear I am, Columbus til I die!
by BLAZER_FAN_199 on Oct 26, 2009 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions
not as bad as I felt
when Utah matched on Millsap
time for Travis to step his game up, especially in the areas of defensive rebounding and boxing out
Oh, and I almost forgot…with Nic’s injury Dante Cunningham may have just gotten a free ticket to visit the floor this year, and not just during “garbage time”
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
he just went from steet clothes to uniform tomorrow night
an injury to Travis or Martell puts him in the rotation most likely
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
yeah
that move made NO sense to me.
Unless Pryz was going to be traded and Aldridge would play more center.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
It was a poision pill deal
We might have seen a trade had they not matched but it was to screw up the Jazz’s cap space next year because they have a lot of expiring deals.
"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely
It actually screwed them up more this year with the extra signing bonus didn't it?
At least it was a shot in the luxury tax this year
"Either way we have two phenomenal units. I'm excited to play with either one." - Martell Webster
I loved it
solid 4 man depth at the 4-5. Great playoff big-man rotation and losts of rest for the “big 3” during the regualr season
and LMA could’ve played alongside Millsap and a center at “SF” for 5-6 minutes in the middle of each half to make sure Millsap got 32 mpg
Oh well, Utah knew they couldn’t afford to let Paul get away, but Millsap was a great target by KP. The best one of his offseason
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
that doesn’t work in today’s NBA. The court has to be spaced.
I really hope the games start streaming on Blazers.com soon.
If I had to term the present situation, it would have to be a series of unfortunate events.
Yeah, LMA isn't Rashard Lewis.
Even Nate McMillan, who I rail against relentlessly, realizes that fact.
Dear Paul Allen:
Waive Patty Mills & sign Ime Udoka.
Sincerely,
AK1984
LMA was shooting corner 3s in practice on Sunday
and I was only talking about 5-6 minutes a half against the other team’s bench. And there was a good chance that Blake and Rudy would’ve been in the game at the same time to help “spread the floor”
LMA could’ve pulled it off, he has the footspeed to play perimeter defense against most of the backup SFs in the league, for 5-6 intervals. Plus, he and Millsap would’ve killed them on the other end of the floor, probably forcing the other coach to sub his #3 PF in, just to defend the paint
sign, oh well, it was a beautiful dream
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Well, we've all got our dreams.
Yet, too say the least, you’re plan would’ve been intriguing to watch unfold out there.
Dear Paul Allen:
Waive Patty Mills & sign Ime Udoka.
Sincerely,
AK1984
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Chuck Norris' tears cure cancer. Too bad he has never cried.
by FiveOhThree-RipCity!! on Oct 26, 2009 12:26 PM PDT reply actions
MaHHHHHHHAAARRRRGGGHHHHHHHHHHFRICKLE FRACKING FROCK!!!
At least Webster will get some playing time.
Batum had a defensive mindset and is one of the few players to possess that. This actually greatly concerns me.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
by ratbastird on Oct 26, 2009 12:27 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
While this certainly isn't surprising...
it’s still a tough break.
The hard part about filling the SF position is the fact that our primary SF option, Martell, is still pretty rusty.
The bright side is that he’ll suddenly get back into game shape faster, as long as his foot holds up.
I wonder what will happen if Martell plays well and Batum returns.
in that scenario, Nate will stick with Martell
Figure Batum won’t be back until early March at best, and maybe more like mid to late March. Doubtful we’ll shake up the rotation that late in the year unless we have to.
Figure this to be almost a lost season for Batum, and hope maybe he’s back and in shape come playoff time for defensive matchup purposes.
Martell is under the gun now – he’s got his shot, now he’s got to earn it.
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
Martell is under the gun now – he’s got his shot, now he’s got to earn it.
And with only a month and a half of actual practice time to get back into shape. He’s going to be really rusty.
Here’s to hoping fans have patience.
HAHAHAHAHA
you’re funny? patience?
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
Let's not forget
Marty spent a whole lot of time last year when he couldn’t run or jump practicing his shot. He should be pretty much automatic from the perimeter this year. I just hope he can and will run the floor like he showed briefly last season.
"My shoulder is OK. And away we go." -- Nic Batum
by DonkeyShins on Oct 27, 2009 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions
Well...
I can’t see trading Batum and if martell does well, why trade him?
Outlaw provides more flexibility at the PF and SF positions than webster who backs up SG which already has plenty of players.
So, I think it’ll be a matter of HOW well Webster plays relative to Outlaw and how much he picks up defensively relative to Batum.
I don’t see Batum picking up any minutes or major minutes this year if Webster is doing well.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
I can’t see trading Batum and if martell does well, why trade him?
I’m not so much thinking about trades, more about starting and minutes, as you covered afterward.
It does indeed sound like a lost year for Batum. I’m trying hard not to question the trainers at the moment.
management should definitely be asking questions
I’m going to bite my tongue and not worry about the trainer portion.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
Yeah...
Our medical team = fail.
*Unless KP has a secret plan that makes this statement incorrect.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
Why is everyone blaming the doctors and trainers?
At practice today, Batum stated that he knew surgery was likely for months and that he had hoped to play through the pain.
As I understand it, it is part of an athletic trainer or team doctor's job to understand the players' injuries
and recommend the course of action that makes the most sense for team and player. Yet again, it is looking pretty dubious as to whether that happened.
by jksnake99 on Oct 26, 2009 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
It was Nic's decision not to have surgery
Lots of folks also don’t get the intense national pressure on euros to play for the country. Dirk finally quit this year and admitted it has hurt his NBA game to play with the Germans but could not say no.
A team cannot force a player to have surgery. They can cut him and that is about all.
"Either way we have two phenomenal units. I'm excited to play with either one." - Martell Webster
Go up and read upper left's comments as well.
Everyone has opinions. But that doesn’t mean they are informed opinions. All of the 2nd guesser’s here finding fault with the team are demonstrating they belong in the uninformed opinion group.
hakkaa päälle !
were you around last year?
Martell re-injured his foot because he came back too early.
Blake re-injured his shoulder because he came back too early.
Injuries were generally vaguely announced to the press with obscure timelines for returns.
Portland medical staff has not given me confidence.
by Blazin' on Oct 26, 2009 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think players have a lot more say in these things than we know.
Players wanna play. Some of them think they can play through pain and still finish healing. Sometimes they’re wrong.
Sure, doctors and trainers are human and make mistakes, but medicine has a lot of variables and is an inexact science at best. Calling for their head every time a player reinjures himself seems like giving your kid 40 lashes for spilling a glass of milk.
Batum stated that he knew surgery was likely for months and that he had hoped to play through the pain
This reminds me of pitchers in baseball who “hide” their arm injuries and try to gut it out to keep their spot in the rotation/bullpen
then, asfter they get their brains beat in and cost the team a few wins, the truth finally comes out and the fans blame the medical staff for not being mind readers
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Oct 26, 2009 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Definitely. One of my buddies pitched in the minors for years and towards the end was constantly “misleading” the team about his severe shoulder pain in order to keep his spot and get a new contract. Batum’s motivating factor could have been playing France. But really, it all seems to be speculation blaming either side.
I'm on your bandwagon. Eating your nachos.
Oh and as for playing time
It’s my assumption that Rudy, Roy, Martel, Batum, or Outlaw will need to go. I can’t see enough playing time to keep everyone happy.
Nate hates change so I’d guess that Webster stays the starter if he plays well. I also suspect Batum to be rusty if he manages to come back and i would be surprised to see him in the play-offs if the blazers were rocking without him.
However, his defense was pretty darn good and I think this hurts the blazers more than a lot of other players going down.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
I love what Nic can do, but he only did it for 18 minutes per game last season.
This may be less of a problem for the Blazers than it at first appears.
sky is falling.
but he was the only wing player who could play 18 minutes of defense. we’re doomed! we need to sign udoka and collins. this can only be achieved by waiving mills and troutlaw
dinasour type of guys choir boys
More like
2 steps forward
1 step back
It’s not completely negative.
"My shoulder is OK. And away we go." -- Nic Batum
by DonkeyShins on Oct 27, 2009 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions
While unfortunate
This is why you have roster depth. I do worry about Rudy’s health……
"I saw him in the face" Sergio's quote on the latest alley-oop to Rudy.
by blazermaniac32 on Oct 26, 2009 12:29 PM PDT reply actions
Well this sucks.
I guess we shoulda signed Ime?
by Roybot on Oct 26, 2009 12:29 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Why?
He still wouldn’t see much playing time if any.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
Besides, if we wanted to, we still could.
They can waive Mills anytime they want and Ime isn’t signed.
where's the nearest bridge?
Not my Nico…
I don't think so
Travis is a bad bad fit with the starters, but is good as a shoot-first player on the 2nd unit. Martell fits the roll of stand in the corner much better.
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
Agreed
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
And the second unit is now short of scorers
So Travis is more needed there.
"Either way we have two phenomenal units. I'm excited to play with either one." - Martell Webster
If only we had drafted Kevin Durant
Ducks for cover
by Norsktroll on Oct 26, 2009 12:34 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Wouldn't matter
Nate would have wanted Durant to come off the bench to balance the units.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
by usmcr3049 on Oct 26, 2009 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Yeah we needed more scoring off the bench.
The bench needs a 20+ point scorer more than the starters.
Man, I’m feeling snarky today.
yeah, and
Durant would still be sitting in the corner waiting for a kick-out pass to shoot the 3 ball
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
But his plus/minus would be better
"I'm a man, but I can change.....if I have to......I guess." - Red Green
by antediluvian on Oct 26, 2009 6:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Not even on the floor until he commits to defense
"Either way we have two phenomenal units. I'm excited to play with either one." - Martell Webster
How does Travis Outlaw get minutes on this team?
All right, I’m back to being serious here.
If Kevin Durant was drafted by the Portland Trail Blazers, he’d’ve been used by Nate McMillan like Rashard Lewis was in Seattle. I’m thankful that didn’t happen, though, because Durant is a single-minded player on offense — which is indicated by his piss-poor assist and turnover numbers — as well as an utter sieve on defense.
Everyone in Portland should be thankful that Greg Oden was the #1 choice in 2007, because even though he may not put up gawdy scoring numbers and win a bunch of empy accolades — which’ll likely happen with Durant, as he’s a media darling with idiots like Bill Simmons — the former Ohio State Buckeye will reach championship glory at the NBA level.
Yes, when it’s all said and done, Oden will have at least one ring and Durant will have none.
Dear Paul Allen:
Waive Patty Mills & sign Ime Udoka.
Sincerely,
AK1984
How do you know that this year wouldn't have been his turn to be the hurt Blazers small forward?
by tominhawaii on Oct 26, 2009 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions
He already sprained his ankle last year. He is good to go now.
Maybe it’s Joel’s time to get hurt again? LaMarcus was remarkable healthy so far.
Nah
LaMarcus had that heart thing and a shoulder his first year.
by tominhawaii on Oct 26, 2009 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah
But if he was a Blazer, last year was Marty’s turn to be the hurt guy. I guess what I’m getting at, is that maybe if we would have drafted Durant, he would have missed his first season as a Blazer, just like Greg did.
by tominhawaii on Oct 26, 2009 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions
You mean because if KD got shoulder surgery and missed most of the season it would HELP the team?
Adjusted plus/minus humor… thank you, thank you. I will be here all season. Tip your waitress.
Q: Is Greg favoring his knee?
Frye: He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors.
it worked for Houston
when T-Mac was out = better team play
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Uh-oh, there's no way this ends well.
Martell Webster starting, Travis Outlaw more minutes at the 3, Juwan Howard more minutes at the 4, et cetera.
Ugh, this team might not even win 50 games.
Stupid people have stupid ideas.
by AK1984 on Oct 26, 2009 12:35 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
Stupid people have stupid ideas
not to be insulting, but sometimes…nevermind that would be insulting.
this team will still win over 50 games, Miller is better than Sergio, and Howard is better than Frye. With more coming from Oden, they will be fine.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
Maybe
I actually agree with AK in that this loss has the potential to effect the win column. Batum shut down a lot of players defensively. The games I went to I watched him stifle whoever he was on (chris paul being one of them), and take them out of their groove.
Oden will likely help lift us, but that missing defensive effort, mentality and desire from a wing I think will definitely hurt us. Webster will really have to pick it up, and I don’t see that in him. Batum relishes the defensive effort. That makes a difference.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
I agree that it probably costs us wins
but I don’t know how many. We are very deep at the wings.
In fact, there is a possibility it means more PT for Rudy, which might in the final analysis give us more wins in the regular season.
Where it almost certainly hurts us is in the playoffs, where defense is so important.
I can tell you how to make an Excel spreadsheet that proves Portland wins 62 games this year.
Also
Most guys play better with more than 15 minutes per game, which was what Webster and Outlaw were looking at with Batum as the starting 3. Outlaw and Webster playing better mitigates the effects of this injury, in my view.
He should definitely be back for the playoffs, though, right?
Better knock on wood when you say that
Besides, when guys rejoin their team just prior to or during the playoffs, it’s usually disastrous. Look at what Jameer Nelson’s return did for the Magic last season. All he did was throw the team out of sync. I’ll be very surprised if Batum is an asset for the Blazers this season.
"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla
Batum would be different
He wasn’t going to be a big factor offensively or have a lot of things run through him… he’d maybe do MORE, but when he comes back he’ll still be able to Do a Portland like he did as a rookie.
Play defense, hit open jumpers.
Him suddenly rejoining the team before the playoffs won’t be like throwing an allstar PG or Chris Webber or something out there.
M—
I just want him back for the playoffs
If we can get him back for the likes of Kobe and Carmelo then we will be ok.
Things happen for a reason they say, but I say there's a reason things happen.
Do not underestimate
Batum’s effect while gaurding the oppositions best wing. Some of those wins against Denver, LA, etc. may not happen with their stars goign crazy.
I hope Webster can have 3/4 the effect on the other team star, lord knows we aint getting it from our other 3.
Land Rondo.
by loyal_blazer on Oct 26, 2009 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Not just wings
he guarded everything but the center at times, and did a pretty darn good job.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
for a 19 year old with one arm
hell yeah he did. He is the future at the 3. How good will he be at 23?
Land Rondo.
by loyal_blazer on Oct 26, 2009 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions
My guess
is pretty darn good and eventually he beats out Webster.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
Call it homeristic hype
But I truly think Batum will be another Scotty Pippen / Tayshaun Prince. We would have seen that potential start to be realized this season. That’s why Batum’s loss is much bigger than I want to think about right now.
The only hope is that Webster has a breakout season of his own—especially at the defensive end.
"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla
I think Batum can be Prince, but not Pippen
There is a ginormous difference between the two. One is one of the great wingmen/#2 guys in history, and one was the 4th or 5th best player on a fringe title team. That’s no knock on Prince— he’s had a great career and I would LOVE for Batum to get to that point… and I think he can. The chances of Batum (or any other promising 21 year old forward) being another Pip are minuscule.
Yeah, Nicolas Batum has the potential to become the next Tayshaun Prince.
Any comparison of Batum to Scottie Pippen reminds me a lot of Jerryd Bayless to Chauncey Billups or Luke Ridnour to Steve Nash, which are complete balderdash.
Dear Paul Allen:
Waive Patty Mills & sign Ime Udoka.
Sincerely,
AK1984
i have to agree
Batum has a lot of potential, but Pippen is one of the greatest ever and frankly under appreciated with Jordan on the team (on the defensive end of things that is). I remember Jordan winning MVP or something or other and thinking that there was NO way Jordan deserved it over Pippen who’s defense really won that series.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
The question is
Can Roy be the next MJ/Michael Redd?
by Royster on Oct 26, 2009 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
The loss of Batum hurts, but it doesn't negate all of the strides taken by the rest of the team.
Even with this (and he may only be gone for half the season too) the Blazers should still win 50 games.
Yes! Yes! In the face!
by LeafHawk on Oct 26, 2009 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hopefully you're right
but I have a voice telling me that the lack of defense will hurt us more than people might at first think..
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
It also means more minutes for Rudy
You know it’s not that big of a deal. How many minutes did Batum average last year?
by tominhawaii on Oct 26, 2009 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah
I think he’s fun to watch and I’m upset that I won’t get to see him play in person this year. I just don’t think his departure, at this juncture is as detrimental for the team, as it would be next year or in the 2012/2013 season.
by tominhawaii on Oct 26, 2009 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions
With Nicolas Batum out, Portland's piss-poor perimeter will definitely hurt this team.
Stupid people have stupid ideas.
Meah
I think with the improved play of Oden, Miller taking Blake’s minutes and Blake taking Sergo’s minutes, that the Blazers defense won’t be worse than last years with Nic out. I have no idea about Martell’s defense but I’m sure he’s not crappy.
by tominhawaii on Oct 26, 2009 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Martell Webster isn't flat-out terrible on defense, but he's far from quick and isn't ...
able to stay in front of faster players who can pick up their dribble and drive right by him.
Dear Paul Allen:
Waive Patty Mills & sign Ime Udoka.
Sincerely,
AK1984
yes, but
he would’ve been a better option to check Artest, instead of any Blazer wing “defenders” last April
and he’s got a better chance at bodying up Melo than even Batum
I remember the Blazers telling Nic not to bulk up because they wanted him to stay quick and lean…but how about Nic adding some muscle definition in his shoulder areas while he’s rehabbing? More strength = less pressure on the (upper body) joints
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
nice ak..
you finally changed your snide, ironic signature..
Portland Sports Performance provides elite mental and emotional training for athletes of all ages and in all sports.
www.portlandsportsperformance.com
by blazersunited on Oct 26, 2009 2:04 PM PDT up reply actions
yes
it is nicer now.
stupid person has stupid idea
by mittsabishy on Oct 26, 2009 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I thought it was really good
following some of his comments. :)
I can tell you how to make an Excel spreadsheet that proves Portland wins 62 games this year.
thus..
the ironic tag. but i’m with you.. :)
Portland Sports Performance provides elite mental and emotional training for athletes of all ages and in all sports.
www.portlandsportsperformance.com
by blazersunited on Oct 27, 2009 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions
He has the tools, but is laterally pretty slow and hasn't yet developed the instincts
Nic clearly was the best defender in terms of staying in front of his man.
I guess we now hope for Martell to improve and Brandon to step up. Not ideal, but it’s going to have to work.
I really hope the games start streaming on Blazers.com soon.
If I had to term the present situation, it would have to be a series of unfortunate events.
by Cablinasian on Oct 26, 2009 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions
That is
indeed my hope, but it’s not an expectation.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
Not just Brandon
LA needs to step up in that department too.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
Somewhere out there
A cat thinks TO has too many lives
Land Rondo.
by loyal_blazer on Oct 26, 2009 12:37 PM PDT reply actions 10 recs
i laughed
because I think you’re right. Everytime something like this happens, it makes moving him to the trading block much less likely.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
That's hilarious
I can tell you how to make an Excel spreadsheet that proves Portland wins 62 games this year.
CATERWAUL!!! Just in time for Halloween
rec
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Yeah, Outlaw is here to stay for this season.
*Unless KP has a secret plan that makes this statement incorrect.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
How is it less likely?
Couldn’t we trade for another small forward?
by resurrect_ha28 on Oct 26, 2009 3:14 PM PDT up reply actions
On the contrary, I think this is great for shopping him.
If Outlaw plays well and Batum comes back healthy and playing at a high level, then Travis’ stock will be higher than it has been in a couple seasons. The Blazers would get even more back for him in a trade offer.
Of course, this is all dependent on how quickly Batum heals up.
Yes! Yes! In the face!
yes
but that shopping would have to take place next year.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
it can't
unless the Blazers agree to extend Travis, before July
I do agree that more PT will be good for Outlaw’s trade and/or resign value…#25 caught a huge break, today. But he’s still gonna have to take advantage of it, and do more than shoot leaning jumpers
if he doesn’t, Dante Cunningham will be breathing down his neck
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
THis is KP.
He doesn’t sell high.
*Unless KP has a secret plan that makes this statement incorrect.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
Kinda sounds like a cheap shot
Who do you think he should have traded, when, and for how much?
He didn’t get much for Sergio, but beyond that I don’t think your criticism is well placed. If you trade young guys quickly, you run the risk that they will develop for somebody else. If you hold’em and they don’t overcome their limitations, you get less back when you do trade them.
Personally, I prefer a GM who evaluates well, drafts well, and show some patience in allowing his youngsters a chance to grow before shipping them out.
by upper left corner on Oct 27, 2009 8:04 AM PDT up reply actions
Brilliant.
The injury probably happened 6 months ago and they wait until opening day to decide on surgery.
I’m ok with more Webster, but if outlaw starts the season slow he will be the undisputed whipping boy for the fanbase.
Because you can often play through it
It just got too painful apparently.
"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely
Agreed
Management does not seem to be handling these injuries well.
It’s almost like what I tell my girlfriend. “Sometimes women in an effort to please everyone, complicate the situation.” The Blazers seem to be doing this.
Land Rondo.
by loyal_blazer on Oct 26, 2009 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions
You're leaping to conclusion
with no internal information on the call and decisions.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
what are you talking about
1. the second comment you make is HIGHLY offensive, is not condusive to the argument or any argument for that matter and invalidates your attempt at making a (flawed) point.
2. there is no way to know what the management has or will do. There are 1009098 scenarios that could have occured
Sophia
The Princess of Blazersedge
It just takes an iron fist to keep the riff raff under control and her princess hand is mad strong- Idoltime
Hey, I mostly agree with Sophia again!
Sometimes men try to please everyone and complicate the situation, too.
Why not just say “sometimes people”?
It doesn’t invalidate his point, though. His point is invalidated by leaping to conclusions. Just because he used a dumb way to try to make the point doesn’t invalidate it.
I can tell you how to make an Excel spreadsheet that proves Portland wins 62 games this year.
I agree that his point is valid in spite of the odd analogy.
Dear Paul Allen:
Waive Patty Mills & sign Ime Udoka.
Sincerely,
AK1984
Nice new sig and just in time!
the point invalidated by leaping to conclusions is valid?
"its tough to play with one eye, unless you're a pirate." Delonte West
"una canasta a Pau en la cara" Rudy
by Honka Playboy on Oct 26, 2009 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions
Well, jscot thought "loyal_blazer" had an invalid point.
I thought it was valid, even though the analogy was weird.
Dear Paul Allen:
Waive Patty Mills & sign Ime Udoka.
Sincerely,
AK1984
well
"its tough to play with one eye, unless you're a pirate." Delonte West
"una canasta a Pau en la cara" Rudy
by Honka Playboy on Oct 26, 2009 3:36 PM PDT up reply actions
loyal_blazer has a girlfriend
But she’s in Canada.
"My shoulder is OK. And away we go." -- Nic Batum
by DonkeyShins on Oct 27, 2009 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions
Oh good grief.
"Aneurysm".
When Outlaw wins a game on a last-second shot, it’s called an "annthefaneurysm". QualityPie
So, uh, what does your grifriend say when you tell her that?
That’s a pretty strange observation of women you’ve got going there. I’m not sure I trust your judgment of the Blazers and their medical staff.
I think I’d better shut up now.
Well, to be fair
What he describes may be a pattern for her personally that they’ve talked about, so maybe we should stay out of their relationship.
It’s dumb to generalize though. Sometimes men, in generalizing about women, complicate the situation.
Um. Yeah.
I can tell you how to make an Excel spreadsheet that proves Portland wins 62 games this year.
Don't seem to be living up to your User-name
Cheap shot, second-guessing, with little information is not my definition of “loyalty.”
by upper left corner on Oct 27, 2009 8:07 AM PDT up reply actions
According to some different online sources
it appears the first treatment for a torn labrum is almost always rest and anti-inflammatory medication along with mild pain killers. For many people this treatment is very effective, so I am sure that is why it took so long to decide he needed surgery.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
I wonder
if it’s something like the foot where surgery has a high risk of doing more harm than good.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
No, surgery would fix it
It just means you are out for a period of time.
"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely
gotcha.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
ya again according to some online "doc's"
Surgery is less used becuase of the rehab time, (4-6 months) and the success of just giving it some rest and anti-inflammatory medication.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
That's generally true
Its also why players with knee injuries try to play through them then have surgery. ACL surgery will fix it but it means you’re out for a while.
"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely
Then it makes sense that they first attempted to rest it
and people freaking out about management should relax. Crud happens and I suspect they know better than us lay yokes.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
by ratbastird on Oct 26, 2009 1:00 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
And the fact is
That our training staff is dang good.
"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely
evidence of this?
I really hope the games start streaming on Blazers.com soon.
If I had to term the present situation, it would have to be a series of unfortunate events.
They handled the Oden recovery well
And the fact that our players have been on the short end of most injury timelines.
Honestly, basketball is a violent sport, people get hurt.
"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely
Where are the numbers for the injury return time?
Also, not necessarily sure that early return from injuries should earn the trainers a gold star.
I really don't think our players have been on the short end of injury timelines recently
Oden was well over timeline last year with his kneecap bruise, Martell re-injured himself, Blake re-injured his shoulder, … The only one to come back in time was Roy.
Channing also waited long to get the bone spurs in his ankle cleaned up
And Oden still has to get his explosiveness back, which the Suns staff worked on with Amare after his microfracture way earlier. They were extra conservative in Oden’s case.
this is true as well. Greg had a non-severe micro injury and wasn’t allowed to do much. Right decision or not. I don’t think we can call the recovery a huge success.
I really hope the games start streaming on Blazers.com soon.
If I had to term the present situation, it would have to be a series of unfortunate events.
The success is based on the number of years he has left to play not one season
This guy is not replaceable. Amare also was not the same player until the 2nd year.
"Either way we have two phenomenal units. I'm excited to play with either one." - Martell Webster
on the short end?
Martel was out much longer than anticipated.
Greg was back late from the kneecap, a day to day injury.
Blake hurt himself in a premature entry in the clipper game.
this i sjust last year.
I really hope the games start streaming on Blazers.com soon.
If I had to term the present situation, it would have to be a series of unfortunate events.
Thanks for the update
As you hint, Nate’s actions (playing Martell with the starters) probably override his comments about competition for the starting position.
As everyone above said… it’s not surprising that Martell starts over Outlaw, for a variety of reasons.
probably override his comments about competition for the starting position.
Yes, all of the competitors for starting jobs started out camp as equals, but the ones that “fit” best with Roy and LMA were “more equal” than the others
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Two legs good
Four legs bad.
"My shoulder is OK. And away we go." -- Nic Batum
by DonkeyShins on Oct 27, 2009 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions
Wow, this really sucks. We probably just lost our best defender from the 1-4 spot. Martell has a real shot at not only starting now, but holding onto that spot. Talk about opportunity. How does that Patty Mills signing look now, Paul Allen? I know we’re deep, but I’m guessing Ime Udoka may have been the better pickup given this news. Especially with Rudy being an “unknown” after missing basically all of the preseason.
Also, management really have to look at guys playing overseas now. I know it’s the “right thing to do”, to let a player play for his country. I get that. But Nic is a pretty important piece. He’s our best back court defender on a team which already lacks defense. This is a real loss. Hope KP and co. are a little more guarded next summer. Especially if we make a run in the playoffs. That’s just too much basketball, even for young guys.
Regarding Hedo Türkoğlu:
Look at the bright side, Blazers fans -- you dodged a bullet. He peaked statistically two years ago. He's allegedly 30 but could be closer to 32 or 33 for all we know. (Do you trust Turkish birth certificates? And isn't it weird that he played four years of pro ball in Turkey in the 1990s?)
- Bill Simmons of ESPN.com
How does that Patty Mills signing look now, Paul Allen?
How many times will this come up in the thread?
Portland signed Mills to a non-guaranteed contract. They can cut him at any time and sign a small forward, such as an unsigned Ime Udoka.
If they don’t do so, it’s an intentional decision, not something caused by the 15th player contract.
Ime still wouldn't play
Rudy is getting Batum’s minutes.
by tominhawaii on Oct 26, 2009 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions
I presume so too
Not meaning to say that it’s either good or bad that Mills is signed instead of Udoka. Merely that Mills contract can’t be used to say “now we can’t get Udoka”, since Mills can be cut and Udoka is still a FA to my knowledge.
I think
outlaw gets them.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
They'll share them
Martell will play more, too.
I can tell you how to make an Excel spreadsheet that proves Portland wins 62 games this year.
yep
minutes at the 3:
Webs around 24
Rudy around 16 (plus 14 more at the 2)
Outlaw around 8 (plus 14 more at the 4)
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
I doubt Rudy plays that much time at the 3.
Outlaw will play more than 22 minutes I guarantee it.
"The difference between a democracy and a dictatorship is that in a democracy you vote first and take orders later; in a dictatorship you don't have to waste your time voting"
"I don't like jail, they got the wrong kind of bars in there"
Charles Bukowski
Portland signed Mills to a non-guaranteed contract. They can cut him at any time
While this is true, Nic’s shoulder injury helps explain the angst that Nate/KP couldn’t conceal from the media when it was announced last week that Mills would get the 15th roster spot. The coach and GM had to know that their starting SF’s health was on thin ice, and this could be why they mentioned that keeping Patty wasn’t a “basketball” decision
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Oct 26, 2009 1:54 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
agree.
completely. the mills decision was either allen or the vulcans. a terrible basketball decision. even if patty mills pans out, patty mills type players are easy to come by. lock down wing defenders who can hit the three are not.
Portland Sports Performance provides elite mental and emotional training for athletes of all ages and in all sports.
www.portlandsportsperformance.com
by blazersunited on Oct 26, 2009 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Ime was not offered a contract in San Antonio
Even though they were desperate to replace Bruce Bowen. That indicates he is no longer a lock down wing defender. The Blazers saw for themselves and could not come to a consensus on keeping him over Mills. I get that it was not a basketball decision but the other factors are not evident.
"Either way we have two phenomenal units. I'm excited to play with either one." - Martell Webster
"That indicates he is no longer a lock down wing defender."
Suffice it say, the stats prove otherwise.
www.82games.com is your friend.
Dear Paul Allen:
Waive Patty Mills & sign Ime Udoka.
Sincerely,
AK1984
The Blazer injury curse
Has apparently hit our SFs the past few years.
"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely
Oh, and by the way, Patty Mills should be immediately waived and Ime Udoka should be re-signed today.
Stupid people have stupid ideas.
I don't disagree or agree
because I don’t think it really matters.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
Y'all continue to underestimate the importance of perimeter defense.
If Ime Udoka was on the roster, I’d honestly start him right now over Martell Webster.
Webster’s lack of lateral quickness and slow-footedness will allow the opposition to blow buy his ass and burn him.
Stupid people have stupid ideas.
Did you read Ben's last recap that Ime was in
He said Ime was slow and stuff. A healthy Martell is no worse than an old Ime.
by tominhawaii on Oct 26, 2009 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Bruce Bowen?
I know most Blazer fans hate him (and some will probably throw up in their mouths at just the thought of BB in red/black) but if Portland is now in the market for a wing defender to replace Batum (and they should be) then this guy could come out of retirement. He’s good friends with Monty from their days in San Antone and he offers playoff experience out the wazzoo
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I don't understand
If the Blazers were too deep yesterday, why do they need to sign someone else after Batum’s injury?
I agree Tom
I would be on board with cutting Patty and signing Ime for insurance, but Martell, Rudy and Travis are all better options than any FA that I am aware of.
Even Roy can play SF
Half the roster can play SG, but I would prefer Roy play SG. I might at least have Roy guard some SF’s on defense.
it's for perimeter defense
and playoff experience
I’d rather have a PF/C, but Bowen does provide something that was “lost” when Batum went down. And I think Bruce > Ime at the defensive end of the floor. Plus, I like the idea of Bowen mentoring the other Blazers wings re: his “clutch and grab without getting caught” style of defense
it’s all about winning playoff series, and not the backup SF shooting pretty game-winning jumpers during a Sunday afternoon game in December
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Bruce Bowen is toast. Even if he wasn't finished, I still can't stand the bastard.
Ime Udoka, on the other hand, put up solid defensive numbers last season, so he should’ve easily made the team over Patty Mills.
Dear Paul Allen:
Waive Patty Mills & sign Ime Udoka.
Sincerely,
AK1984
If Ime was the Ime of a few years ago
I’d agree, but based on everything I’ve heard, he’s not. I would definitely take a defensive SF over Webster. I just don’t think that’s Ime.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
Your summary analysis would be brilliant
except that Webster is slow and unquick relative only to PGs. Relative to SF’s, he is quicker and faster.
by blacknoiseNW on Oct 26, 2009 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Uh, Martell Webster isn't "quick" even compared to small forwards.
Webster’s lack of lateral quickness and foot speed has always been a weakness of his.
Dear Paul Allen:
Waive Patty Mills & sign Ime Udoka.
Sincerely,
AK1984
Unfortunately
I believe you are correct.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
in his defense (see what I did there), he does have a bigger body which will be useful against Melo, LeBron, and co…. the sucky thing is that he really isn’t nearly Nic Batum on that end.
I really hope the games start streaming on Blazers.com soon.
If I had to term the present situation, it would have to be a series of unfortunate events.
i'll grant the jury remains out...
because the scouting reports do knock his lateral quickness/footspeed – for a 2-guard. However, those same scouting reports also acknowledge that is is more a matter of approach vs. latent athletic ability. Once Martell decides to be a quick defender, he will be a quick defender.
by blacknoiseNW on Oct 26, 2009 1:13 PM PDT up reply actions
I argue that this is out of Martell Webster's control; he just lacks lateral quickness.
Dear Paul Allen:
Waive Patty Mills & sign Ime Udoka.
Sincerely,
AK1984
We'll see this season
I believe it was something he had be focusing on during one of hte off seasons. I don’t remember which.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
Raw lateral quickness
is the most overrated defensive requirement in the NBA. I’m not saying it isn’t a great start, but Bruce Bowen and Shane Battier aren’t winning any shuttle races any time soon. Commitment and effort on the defensive end are far more important and are the reasons that supremely quick guys like Monta Ellis, Dwyane Wade, Derrick Rose are piss poor perimeter man defenders while their slower counterparts like Chauncey and the aforementioned guys are solid defenders.
It certainly helps guys like Iggy and Ariza be excellent defenders, but saying that you need to be extremely quick laterally to be a good perimeter defender is akin to saying you need to be at least 6’10 to be an effective PF in the NBA.
it does seem that Martell is at least going to give it his all on defense. Whether he has the correct technique to make this matter is debatable.
I really hope the games start streaming on Blazers.com soon.
If I had to term the present situation, it would have to be a series of unfortunate events.
Yeah, there's selling out on D like Battier does
and then there’s selling out on D like Bayless did last year. Hopefully Martell spends a lot of time in the film room and reading scouting reports rather than just killing himself during games. That, more than anything, is probably the difference between him staying a mediocre defender and him becoming potentially a go-to guy on that end.
Commitment and effort
and I’ll add anticipation. If you don’t know what the offensive guy is going to do until he does it, he’s already past you.
Anticipation comes from studying guys and studying the game.
I can tell you how to make an Excel spreadsheet that proves Portland wins 62 games this year.
Agreed, I mentioned it in my follow up to Cab
but intelligence/instincts is the most important part of being a good defender, by far.
The Blazers would still need a backup banger
by tominhawaii on Oct 26, 2009 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions
I DO disagree with you
Udoka still wouldn’t see the floor until we have 2 more wing injuries. Why make this move unless/until it actually becomes necessary?
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
WEAK!
This is NOT the time for the surgery bug to come calling.
Why now? Why Nic?
This is very upsetting, Batum is a much bigger part of our starting chemistry than I think we realize right now. We won’t be able to just plug Martell into that spot and have everything be honky dory.
get well Nic!
2010 IS OUR YEAR PEOPLE!!!
Better now than in January
That’s all I think.
And if a starter were to get hurt, this is the least important one.
"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely
naw
I think Blake would be the least important, and i like the guy. Batum brings too much to defense and would have hopefully improved even more this year.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
We struggled when Blake was out last year
Chemistry was off. Losing Blake now would be bad. Losing Blake in a month or two, when Andre is more in synch with everyone, might not hurt that much at all. But for all we know, Andre will be starting by then.
I can tell you how to make an Excel spreadsheet that proves Portland wins 62 games this year.
I think you are overstating the case
I think the Blazers were 10-4 during the stretch that Blake was out, and relying on Sergio and a rookie Bayless is a whole lot different than Miller and 2nd year Bayless.
I agree that Batum being gone will have more impact than Blake would have this year.
by upper left corner on Oct 27, 2009 8:57 AM PDT up reply actions
9-5
Would have been 8-6 if N.O. hadn’t totally folded when Chris Paul got hurt. We played horribly in that game.
Only four of the ten games were against winning teams, home against Cleveland and Utah, at N.O. and Dallas. For a 54 win team, you expect to win all but maybe one of the games against losing teams, and a couple of the games against winning teams, so you are looking for 11-12 wins out of those 14. We escaped with decent results, but we did not look good.
Home loss to Cleveland. Road losses to Charlotte, Dallas, OKC, and Golden State.
For Cat 3 games (on the road against losing teams) we were 13-1 with Blake and 2-3 without him.
That’s pretty compelling that we were significantly worse without Blake last year. With him, we would have beat Charlotte and Cleveland, and we might have got Dallas (that game was pretty close) and Golden State. OKC we played like total rubbish, but who knows how much steadier the ship would have been with Blake?
If you tell me I have to lose a player for 3-4 months, I would chose Blake over Batum. If you ask me which I think would hurt most in the first month, I would say Blake. Andre and Roy need to get in synch, and we would lose some games if we were relying on that right out of the gate.
I can tell you how to make an Excel spreadsheet that proves Portland wins 62 games this year.
Fair enough.
Your spreadsheet for last season must be working better than my memory. I went to ESPN to try to find the game splits for last season and could not find them.
I wasn’t really arguing the point about last season. Clearly the team struggled with Sergio and Bayless v.1.0. I also wouldn’t argue your point about the early season. It is equally clear that Miller/Roy is a work in progress.
I still have high hopes for Martell, and think there is a good chance that he will blossom with consistent minutes as the starter, but it is clear to me that we are really going to miss Batum’s defensive prowess. That last game against the Lakers, last spring, when he harassed Kobe into complete frustration was a thing of beauty. Not many players have the tools or mindset to do that to Bryant. Let’s hope we have Nic back and firing on all cylinders by the playoffs.
by upper left corner on Oct 28, 2009 8:05 AM PDT up reply actions
I agree on all points
I have high hopes for Martell, and I think where we would really miss Nic is if he isn’t back for the playoffs.
Fortunately, if he comes back a little rusty, it shouldn’t affect his defense much. He’ll be able to keep in condition.
I can tell you how to make an Excel spreadsheet that proves Portland wins 62 games this year.
I understand how big this loss is
Anyone else?
Let’s just hope the Blazers have imprioved elsewhere to not notice the drop.
Maybe after the injury Management will realise he could help us more than 15 minutes a game.
Land Rondo.
by loyal_blazer on Oct 26, 2009 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions
i'm sure he would have this year.
Last year I think 15 was just right. He was a liability on offense at times, but using him on defense allowed him to disrupt other players and kill their rhythm. You don’t have to be in the entire game, if you’re in at the right times to disrupt the flow of other players.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
Always sucks to have guys miss a lot of time, but we'll deal with it
It didn’t destroy our season last year, and I don’t see why it will this year. People worrying about Martell rust seem to forget just how bad Batum was offensively at the start of last season. It sucks to lose him, but that’s just how it goes in the NBA sometimes. He should be a nice boost to our rotation down the stretch now, at least. Better a March return than May.
Yup
See Nelson, Jameer, who had the exact same injury and was playing four months later.
"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely
It affected his play more
He also didn’t have surgery, which might have allowed him to come back quicker.
"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely
That was my original point
Nelson came back for one playoff series with no chance to get any rust off. Nic will presumably have a month or so to work back in and find a rhythm before the playoffs, at least.
Oh the teeth gnashing and mournful wailing that goes on.
And I love how a good deal comes from the people who worried about a minutes crunch.
Every team has to deal with injuries. The Blazers will survive this.
And lets not go overboard on how critical Nic was to our defense. It is not exactly as if he was 1st or 2nd team all-defense. And in basketball team defense is usually more important than individual play.
hakkaa päälle !
by timg56 on Oct 26, 2009 12:51 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
How are the Seattle Seahawks dealing with its slew injuries?
Injuries can make or break a season, even if the optimists stick their heads in the sand.
One way to help aid the onslaught of potential injuries is through depth and roster balance, although that lesson has yet to be learned by the guy who’s making the big bucks.
Stupid people have stupid ideas.
For this to be comparable to the Seahawks injury crisis
Roy would have to be playing at about 60% a la Hasselbeck, and Nic, Travis and Howard would all have to be severely injured. Every team deals with injuries to some degree, Seattle’s just been especially cursed recently. This is much more comparable to the Colts losing Anthony Gonzalez for half the season or the Giants having a banged up secondary than the Seahawks being forced to pull random guys off the street to start at left tackle.
You're right that I overreacted somewhat here.
I’m glad you put in perspective, but man injuries have been killing the Pacific Northwest recently.
It’s tough to watch as a fan, too, although that’s life.
Dear Paul Allen:
Waive Patty Mills & sign Ime Udoka.
Sincerely,
AK1984
As long as I don't have to watch
Seneca Wallace throwing to Ben Obomanu any more, that’s all that counts in my eyes.
Yes, roster balance indeed
If only we had traded away one of our wings for another big man to improve roster balance. It would be better now, much better. Just imagine, we could have maybe traded Martell for a backup PF. That would have helped so much.
How does one roll one’s eyes on Bedge?
I can tell you how to make an Excel spreadsheet that proves Portland wins 62 games this year.
Paul Allen could've kept Ime Udoka and Martell Webster was never mentioned in any of my ...
trade proposals involving a banger. So, if you’re going to take shots at me, make sure they make sense.
Dear Paul Allen:
Waive Patty Mills & sign Ime Udoka.
Sincerely,
AK1984
I think the only reason Martell wasn't mentioned was because his injury negated all value.
His value will increase if he plays well and stays injury free this season. And apparently, he’ll get that chance…
He wasn't mentioned by me due to roster balance involving having three players at ...
each position. I wanted Nicolas Batum, Martell Webster, and Ime Udoka at the 3, with that depth allowing for an injury to occur to one player without any major shake-ups happening to the rotation.
Dear Paul Allen:
Waive Patty Mills & sign Ime Udoka.
Sincerely,
AK1984
I overheard Jason Quick say in his chat, last week
that Martell is the “ultimate Blazer” in regards to doing whatever it takes to prepare during personal and team workouts and that he was also willing to come off the bench. Webster’s 4-5 mil/year contract also makes a lot of sense for the Blazers, going forward. While Marty could be included in a deal, I get the feeling that he’ll be a keeper
Outlaw, on the other hand…he’s eventually gonna get “lapped” by Dante Cunningham, who already rebounds better than Travis and will rapidly become a better defender than the 6 year vet
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
A better defender at the 4?
I’ve argued against those that hack on Webster’s defense because the available information describes Webster in context of shooting guards, rather than small forwards.
Outlaw is a tweener, but I think most of us would put him more naturally as a wing than a post. I think Dante, while not a post, is not a “wing” either, and probably matches up with 3’s like TO matches up with 4’s.
by blacknoiseNW on Oct 26, 2009 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions
they're both 'tweeners
and it will take time for Cunningham to learn how to defend NBA fowards
but he’ll be light years ahead of where Travis is now defensively, after his 6th year in the league. Dante was part of a great college program, and his BBIQ was clearly evident, even in the ragged summer league environment
DC has good athleticism, but Prunty said this summer that he’s not ready to chase around smaller 3s. Mostly because he played in the middle of a zone defense at ‘Nova. He needs to be coached up, I think he’s got as much ability as Outlaw to defend the 3-4, and probably a lot more desire to work on the “little” things that make a huge difference in the playoffs
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I don't know what we can conclude yet about Dante's defense
we saw him in Summer League and a handful of minutes in pre-season. What I read said he did not look ready to guard NBA PF’s. Prunty says he’s not ready to guard 3’s.
For all anyone knows, he may not end up a rotation player.
"its tough to play with one eye, unless you're a pirate." Delonte West
"una canasta a Pau en la cara" Rudy
by Honka Playboy on Oct 26, 2009 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions
he may not end up a rotation player.
Right away, no. But few college forwards come to the NBA ready to defend the experienced pro players. Unless the college teams they played for specialized in man defense, but that’s pretty rare. And then theres the speed and physicality of the pro game, it’s difficult to adjust to
(unless you’re DeJuan Blair, of course)
Scouts who saw Dante play at Tim Grg’s camp in August projected him as an NBA starter in 2 years. I think he’ll be a valuable rotation member next year, and he’ll “get there” a little faster if he has the opportunity to learn the ropes this year, which is looking even more likely today than it was yesterday
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I was encouraged by Draft Express's evaluation of Dante
Although his game is mid-range rather than 3-point his defensive skills were noted here:
With all of that said though, Cunningham is a tremendously active player who brings a lot of hustle to the court; this is pretty evident on the defensive side of the ball. He is constantly on the move looking to make things happen and has shown both solid anticipation and great timing. Cunningham’s lateral quickness is good enough that he is able to step away from the basket and cover perimeter players without being a liability to his team, and in fact forces a fair number of turnovers with his on the ball pressure.
"Either way we have two phenomenal units. I'm excited to play with either one." - Martell Webster
The whole point
is injuries change roster balance in a moment.
Suddenly, the roster isn’t so unbalanced after all.
I can tell you how to make an Excel spreadsheet that proves Portland wins 62 games this year.
What?
Look, Travis Outlaw — and maybe Jerryd Bayless — should’ve been moved for a 4/5, while Ime Udoka should’ve been retained over a non-prospect like Patty Mills. That’d’ve given the team three natural small forwards: Nicolas Batum, Martell Webster, and Ime Udoka. As a result, an injury to one guy wouldn’t’ve caused rotational issues.
Anyway, jscot, you’re smarter than this.
Dear Paul Allen:
Waive Patty Mills & sign Ime Udoka.
Sincerely,
AK1984
I guess I am not smart either
becuase I don’t see how Nic’ injury creates “rotational issues” now. Martel slides into the starting spot, and Travis sees more court time as a 3. The team is still covered well. It seems to come down to who you like more, Ime or Outlaw as a back up 3, personally I’ll take Outlaw, (even though I have been pretty outspoken about trading him) because Ime just doesn’t have it anymore.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
I don’t understand… if we traded Travis for a 4 and had Ime as a backup 3, wouldn’t that be more balanced than what we currently have? I think this is AK’s point.
I really hope the games start streaming on Blazers.com soon.
If I had to term the present situation, it would have to be a series of unfortunate events.
it really depends on what you could get for Travis at the 4
At this point we have Travis and Howard to back up the 4, which is pretty decent to pretty good. So who exactly are we going to trade Travis, (or if you want to think past tense, who were we going to trade Travis for) that would have been better than that?
Lee? Milsap? not enough time to satisfy those type of players, LMA is going to play 35+ mins at the 4, so we need some one who is willing to come off the bench for short minutes. No one AK has mentioned in his trade proposals was better that what we have now in my opinion.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
Kurt Thomas.
I really hope the games start streaming on Blazers.com soon.
If I had to term the present situation, it would have to be a series of unfortunate events.
well that is just a matter of opinion
I don’t believe Kurt Thomas paired with Ime would be better than Outlaw and Howard. Ime really didn’t show much this preseason and he was pretty bad last year with the Spurs. Thomas while better than Howard, doesn’t over come Travis’s lead over Ime.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
Kurt Thomas is a great, great rebounder, a good mid-range jump shooter, and a very good defensive F/C.
At this point, it’s not about value. It’s about getting pieces that match your needs. What we do not need is more perimeter offense. What we need is defense.
I really hope the games start streaming on Blazers.com soon.
If I had to term the present situation, it would have to be a series of unfortunate events.
We don't need a great, great rebounder
F/C. We have LMA, Oden and Joel, 2 of which are top 5 in the NBA in rebounding. Howard is just as good at hitting the Mid range shot, and a good defender. But that doesn’t matter, becuase what it comes down to, is Ime is just not NBA rotation material anymore. And because of this injury we need a 3/4 not a 4/5 banger, a position that Outlaw is perfect for.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
maybe this will help
Ime stats from last year:
FG%: 38%
3pt%: 33%
FG%: 61%
That is a far cry from his best season ever, which was with the Blazers.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
Let's try this on for size, okay.
http://www.82games.com/0809/08SAS11.HTM#onoff
Ime Udoka’s +/- production on defense concerning both points allowed per 100 possessions and eFG% allowed is still outstanding for any player.
The same can’t be said for Travis Outlaw, who’s trash on defense.
Dear Paul Allen:
Waive Patty Mills & sign Ime Udoka.
Sincerely,
AK1984
Interesting stats
As I haven’t seen him do to a lack of games on TV, I can only go with what I heard, which is he’s slow.
If he can still play defense, then yes… i might actually side with you. Our offense is already operating at it’s peak and our biggest room for improvement to get better and move further is going to be defense.
I simply don’t have enough information, but I’ll state that I value defense, our team doesn’t, and losing people that do is harmful if they’re not replaced.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
Those stats might not be what they appear
looking at the other stats on that page, Ime’s Net PER was 3.3 at the SF position, which leads to Duncan, Parker and the rest of the Spurs having more to do with his positive +/ than Ime. Looking at his most common 5 man lineups he was rarely on the court without Duncan or Parker which makes since.
Now PER doesn’t reflect defense, but with his terrible offensive abilities last year, it would be hard to keep him on the court even if he was Ron Artest or Prince on the defensive end, which he was far from.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
hrm...don't know
why it did the line through…
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
I mentioned adjusted +/-, not the raw stats. Ime’s adj +/- is around 4 while Finley and Bowen had negative numbers.
I really hope the games start streaming on Blazers.com soon.
If I had to term the present situation, it would have to be a series of unfortunate events.
Yeah, Michael Finley was crap on defense ...
and Bruce Bowen was useless on offense.
Dear Paul Allen:
Waive Patty Mills & sign Ime Udoka.
Sincerely,
AK1984
Opponent PER and Net PER are worthless stats.
When analyzing overall production, Net Points Per 100 Possession is the optimal stat.
Last season, Ime Udoka posted a Net Points Per 100 Possessions of +3.5.
Dear Paul Allen:
Waive Patty Mills & sign Ime Udoka.
Sincerely,
AK1984
it doesn't include team D-
Sometimes it is not the SFs fault when the opposing SF scores, but Net PER effectively assumes it always is.
it was a trick question
no individual statistic is a perfect correlation to the only stat that matters – winning. For Net Points per 100 possessions to be a better stat than Net PER – it has to correlate to winning % better than other statistics.
The problem with using a statement like “it doesn’t include team D” is that collectively, all the team’s Net PER’s do capture this component.
by blacknoiseNW on Oct 26, 2009 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Ime played minutes for a 54-win San Antonio team last year. We can’t ignore his defense and look only at offense.
Kurt Thomas makes a big deal if any injury happens in the frontcourt. If LMA, Greg, or Joel are out, we’re okay.
I really hope the games start streaming on Blazers.com soon.
If I had to term the present situation, it would have to be a series of unfortunate events.
And they let him go
I can tell you how to make an Excel spreadsheet that proves Portland wins 62 games this year.
because they signed Keith Bogans and Richard Jefferson?
I really hope the games start streaming on Blazers.com soon.
If I had to term the present situation, it would have to be a series of unfortunate events.
So he can't make top 15 for the Spurs
which makes it questionable he’d be in our top 12, doesn’t it?
I can tell you how to make an Excel spreadsheet that proves Portland wins 62 games this year.
we don’t have Keith Bogans and Richard Jefferson. We have Patty Mills.
Thomas and Udoka have more positional flexibility and are arguably a better fit than Travis and Patty.
I really hope the games start streaming on Blazers.com soon.
If I had to term the present situation, it would have to be a series of unfortunate events.
I understand wanting Thomas
but Ime doesn’t make sense. He simply wasn’t going to play.
I can tell you how to make an Excel spreadsheet that proves Portland wins 62 games this year.
We don’t need a great, great rebounder
The Blazers do need to improve their defensive rebounding percentage. Nate made this a priority, heading into camp
and (small sample size alert!) the lack of defensive rebounding (and “scrappiness”) was the primary reason why Portland lost their 4th quarter lead in game 4 last April, and that became the “swing” game of the series
Outlaw-Howard are “pretty decent to pretty good” at the backup PF? I can’t agree with that. Juwan is savvy but old, and Travis barely meets the minumum requirements of a 4 (in other words, he’s 6’9")
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
we were 6th in the NBA in defensive rebounding %
hard to say that is in need of a major improvement.
I don’t disagree that our 4s (especially those that play backup) and 3s need to step up the defensive rebounding however.
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
Buck Williams was 6-8.
Charles Barkley was 6-6 (if you believe the official stats. I doubt he ever got past 6-5.)
I believe Dennis Rodman was 6-8.
To say that one of the minimum requirements to be a good rebounder is to be taller than 6-9 indicates a lack of understanding of what rebounding is about.
hakkaa päälle !
and in a completely ridiculous analogy...
When I play pickup ball (rare these days), I routinely dominate the boards on both ends of the court against guys 3-4 inches taller than me – and believe me it’s not due to my jumpin ability either.
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
To say that one of the minimum requirements to be a good rebounder is to be taller than 6-9
Did I say that “one of the minimum requirements to be a good rebounder is to be taller than 6-9”? No, I said that Outlaw barely meets the minimum requirements of a backup PF, and that’s because he’s 6’9"
In other words, Travis is a “backup PF” only because he’s tall and because he has trouble defending SFs. And not because he can defend the post, rebound, box out, set a decent pick or execute any of the other basic requirements normally associated with the power forward position. He does have a quickness advantage over most 4s because he can dribble twice, elevate and shoot. If that makes him a quality backup PF, then the position that Maurice Lucas defined has morphed into something that even Luke would have trouble recognizing
Playing Travis at backup PF is simply a marriage of convenience. Sometimes these will last for awhile, but usually there’s a breakup especially when money becomes an issue.
Like next July
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Facts
http://www.82games.com/0809/08POR8.HTM
Look at the stats by position. Travis outscored his counterpart PF, was even on rebounds and turnovers, marginally higher on blocks and lower on assists, and drew many more fouls, resulting in an extra 2 FTs per 48.
If he can’t defend or rebound or anything else, those PFs he was playing against must have been terrible, and he just got lucky to run up against the right guys.
Either that, or he’s actually a pretty good backup for us.
I can tell you how to make an Excel spreadsheet that proves Portland wins 62 games this year.
by jscot on Oct 27, 2009 1:33 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
regular season stats can be a beautiful thing
but, how much did those 82games splits forecast how well Outlaw would do against the law firm of Scola, Landry in Hayes in the post season?
Speak not the siren song of “regular season stats” too loudly in my ear. My question to you is, do you want Travis to be a playoff rotation contributer on your favorite team, and if so, why?
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
why not?
Scola, Landry and Hayes have to contend with Oden, LMA, Prz and Outlaw. I’d rather have our dilemma.
by blacknoiseNW on Oct 27, 2009 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't care about Scola, Landry, and Hayes
That is last year’s problem. Scola, Landry, and Hayes didn’t hold him down last night too well.
My question to you is how you can say he can’t do any of the things a PF does when he obviously did it over the course of an entire season, better than his counterparts. Just pull in your reigns a little bit and say that he can and does do those things well, but not consistently enough. That’s really what you mean, anyway.
Do I want Travis to be a playoff rotation contributor? Absolutely. Instant offense off the bench is a very valuable tool in the playoffs, when buckets can be hard to come by.
I don’t want Nate relying on him for 30 minutes if he’s not lighting it up. But for 10-12 mpg in a backup role, with a stronger guy available in case he’s being abused, Travis can be great. And if in those 10-12 minutes he lights it up, go with it longer.
I can tell you how to make an Excel spreadsheet that proves Portland wins 62 games this year.
You've stumbled on the truth.
The position has morphed. Look around the league at how many faceup shooters play the 4 spot.
Garnett
Wallace
Lewis
Odom
Aldridge
Nowitski
None of these guys would be considered a prototypical PF in the Lucas mold.
PS – Uncle Cliffy and Big Shot Bob Horry were a couple of forerunners in this category.
hakkaa päälle !
while that may be true
is the goal of roster building to only have the same “kind” of player at a given position? If you were looking for a “complementary” backup to LMA, would you choose Frye, Outlaw or a banger?
(Keep in mind, other teams have PFs with lower body strength who can bump tall skinny guys out of position and score or rebound, down low)
Nate said the team still needed a “beast” back in July, following the draft. I tend to agree with the coach, it this area
(I’m not talking about the center position, I know that Oden is also on the roster. But unless he or Joel can also play PF, that argument is moot, IMO)
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
It is not a perfect world ...
… nor are we playing fantasy basketball.
We have what we have and constant harping on what we “should” have is, at least in my opinion, tiring to have to listen too over and over.
Sure, there will be matchups that put Travis at a disadvantage. But there will be others where he has the advantage. And since it IS a team game and Travis is a 6th or 7th man, it is not as if the occassional mismatch at one position out of five is going to torpedo Portland’s chances of winning a game.
hakkaa päälle !
Just wrong
Outlaw-Howard are "pretty decent to pretty good" at the backup PF? I can’t agree with that. Juwan is savvy but old, and Travis barely meets the minumum requirements of a 4 (in other words, he’s 6’9")
Check the stats when Travis was playing the 4. He was better as a 4 than a 3. He’s not a classic 4, but he’s certainly “pretty decent” at least. He
broke even on reboundingwith the opposing 4.
Playing alongside a strong rebounding true center, he’s just fine at the 4.
He’s by no means a great backup, and because he’s not a classic 4, we are exposed to an injury to one of our centers. But this kind of hyperbole tends to discredit your valid criticisms.
I can tell you how to make an Excel spreadsheet that proves Portland wins 62 games this year.
Kurt Thomas & Ime Udoka >>>>> Juwan Howard & Travis Outlaw.
I need to calm down a notch, ‘cause I’m about snap at this moment.
Everybody also knows my position on roster balance, so there’s no need for me to push it further on folks. You either get it or you don’t, end of story.
Dear Paul Allen:
Waive Patty Mills & sign Ime Udoka.
Sincerely,
AK1984
the problem is that you are getting worked up over an opinion
more than a few of us disagree with you. I find the notion that Thomas + Udoka >>>>>>>>>> Howard and Outlaw pretty silly, to the point of amusing. There are very few minutes on this team for either a Thomas type or a Udoka type.
I can’t give any credit for “hedging bets” for injury scenarios. We have a team, and this is the one that the roster has to make sense for. It doesn’t have to make sense for future scenarios where we have to replace starters with scrubs.
by blacknoiseNW on Oct 26, 2009 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions
There are very few minutes on this team for either a Thomas type or a Udoka type.
Um. We have no place for a defensive, situational SF and a rebounding/defense PF? Really?
I really hope the games start streaming on Blazers.com soon.
If I had to term the present situation, it would have to be a series of unfortunate events.
he said "few minutes"
which I agree with. Having them sitting on the end of the bench would indeed be nice for those few situations, but the fact reamins they would indeed see very few actual minutes.
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
Thomas would get 12-14 minutes per game.
I really hope the games start streaming on Blazers.com soon.
If I had to term the present situation, it would have to be a series of unfortunate events.
hard to see how
I dont’ see Nate playing him over TO at the 4 spot.
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
well in this case
AK and Cab are saying we would have traded Travis for Thomas.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
so we are discussing fantasy scenarios that didn't happen
and may not have even been available? Okay, whatever…
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
someone asked for an example of a PF I’d rather have than Travis . I responded with Kurt Thomas.
I really hope the games start streaming on Blazers.com soon.
If I had to term the present situation, it would have to be a series of unfortunate events.
I'd rather have Howard as a PF than
TO. TO, however, plays a swing position that can’t be matched by anyone else on the roster.
by blacknoiseNW on Oct 26, 2009 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions
with the idea being that i'm not against
Thomas – only that he isn’t worth trading for because Outlaw has more value to this roster.
by blacknoiseNW on Oct 26, 2009 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions
and their salaries match
so if KP wanted to make the deal, he would no obstacle (unless Milwaukee’s GM prefers Thomas to Outlaw on his roster
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
see? you get it
jscot said he thought it was because I was a LaRue Martiin fan! (Umm, no. It’s just another nostalgic catch phrase from the early Schonley era)
I’d have to talk (or type) all day to explain all of this old school Blazer trivia to all these young whippersnappers. It’s always nice to chat with folks from “back in the day” who can still remember the team’s history leading up to 1977
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I was just joking about that
Taking a light-hearted poke at your “pessimism”.
I knew all along it was just a fun memory. I actually hope that someday we draft another LaRue (one who can actually play) so we can have the memories come back.
I can tell you how to make an Excel spreadsheet that proves Portland wins 62 games this year.
Udoka wouldn't even be activated
I can tell you how to make an Excel spreadsheet that proves Portland wins 62 games this year.
Yes, because Patty Mills looks shabby wearing a ...
suit and Paul Allen gets off looking at him in uniform.
If Ime Udoka was on the roster, he sure as hell would be active.
Dear Paul Allen:
Waive Patty Mills & sign Ime Udoka.
Sincerely,
AK1984
Well I guess someone disagree's with you
and I do as well. Ime might dress some games, but no way he makes the regular rotation.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
if we had Udoka instead of Mills right now
I still think Dante would dress over Udoka. But I could be wrong I suppose.
Either way, Ime still isn’t getting off the bench, so who cares?
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
I don’t think Dante dresses over Ime.
I really hope the games start streaming on Blazers.com soon.
If I had to term the present situation, it would have to be a series of unfortunate events.
like I said, you could be right
but even if you are, Ime still doesn’t see the court, so it’s kind of moot.
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
also,
PG – Miller, Blake, Bayless
SG – Roy, Rudy
SF – Martell, Udoka, Cunningham
PF – Aldridge, Thomas
C – Oden, Przybilla
is still only twelve players.
I really hope the games start streaming on Blazers.com soon.
If I had to term the present situation, it would have to be a series of unfortunate events.
well
im livign in the real world situation, not the theoretical one where we traded Outlaw for Thomas and didn’t sign Howard
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
I was responding to
At this point we have Travis and Howard to back up the 4, which is pretty decent to pretty good. So who exactly are we going to trade Travis, (or if you want to think past tense, who were we going to trade Travis for) that would have been better than that?
Lee? Milsap? not enough time to satisfy those type of players, LMA is going to play 35+ mins at the 4, so we need some one who is willing to come off the bench for short minutes. No one AK has mentioned in his trade proposals was better that what we have now in my opinion.
Why does Howard have to be active?
I really hope the games start streaming on Blazers.com soon.
If I had to term the present situation, it would have to be a series of unfortunate events.
he would be if the following was our depth chart.
PG – Miller, Blake
SG – Roy, Rudy
SF – Martell, Udoka
PF – Aldridge, Thomas
C – Oden, Przybilla
I really hope the games start streaming on Blazers.com soon.
If I had to term the present situation, it would have to be a series of unfortunate events.
I really don't see it
I think Nate would go with a 3 guard lineup more than bring in Ime if he continued to play like he did last year, (and really there is no reason to believe he would play better).
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
there are situations that will tear up a three guard lineup. It’s an option to have.
I really hope the games start streaming on Blazers.com soon.
If I had to term the present situation, it would have to be a series of unfortunate events.
I agree
but I was talking about weather Ime could be a rotation player, meaning he would play in every game and avg 10+ mins, and I just don’t believe he can do that anymore.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
What?
Dude, Cabby, you must not have got the memo!
All of Portland’s players are sunshine and roses, while the rest of the NBA employs a bunch of bottom-feeding hobos.
On a serious note, I should really invest in a pair of those rose-colored glasses.
Dear Paul Allen:
Waive Patty Mills & sign Ime Udoka.
Sincerely,
AK1984
you'd break 'em
Without you out there, we're nowhere here
by 22baylor on Oct 26, 2009 4:32 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
You realise that
Ime was trying for the 15th spot on the Blazers, he couldn’t get any guarenteed deal from another NBA team, so he took a training camp invite deal from pdx to fight for the 15th spot, otherwise know as the, “look good in your suit as you sit on the bench” spot.
Ime is done, Pop knew it, and the Blazers found out about it in the preseason. He had no chance at making the rotation this year, even with this injury.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
then why does Ime have 2-3 suitors, including Denver?
I really hope the games start streaming on Blazers.com soon.
If I had to term the present situation, it would have to be a series of unfortunate events.
Believe it when you see it
Lets see someone sign him, then actually play him in their rotation. Then lets see if it is a team that is as good as portland or not.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
it’s not like he had a horrible adjusted +/- last year. The demise of Ime has been greatly exaggerated. He’s a decent twelfth man. The same can not be said for Patty Mills.
I really hope the games start streaming on Blazers.com soon.
If I had to term the present situation, it would have to be a series of unfortunate events.
you can not just play defense
the Blazers need more from their SF spot, they have Joel on the second unit so they can’t bring on any more “defense only” players to play on that unit. Ime’s offensive game really fell off a cliff last year, and his defense wasn’t enough to keep him on the Spurs and it wasn’t enough to get him a guarenteed deal on any NBA team in the offseason.
He was fighting for the 15th spot, on the Blazers
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
he still had a positive impact on the game, judging from adjusted +/-. Seeing as we have a lot of all-offense, no-defense wings, isn’t your argument true in the reverse? We need players who are more than just all-offense.
I really hope the games start streaming on Blazers.com soon.
If I had to term the present situation, it would have to be a series of unfortunate events.
Perhaps you might want to take the view ...
… that Pritchard is likely taking – i.e. that retaining Mills makes more sense long term than having Ime available this season.
Besides, isn’t it rather silly to get so invested in an argument over the 15th man on the roster? (Unless you like to argue. In that case, there is no such thing as too small a case.)
hakkaa päälle !
You mean the position that resembles that of
a 16 year old with a porn mag? Constant rosterbation.
hakkaa päälle !
Well, some occasional self-love keeps my hands in shape.
That way, I won’t get Carpel Tunnel Syndrome from all of the posting I do on here.
Dear Paul Allen:
Waive Patty Mills & sign Ime Udoka.
Sincerely,
AK1984
by AK1984 on Oct 26, 2009 7:46 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
The problem with AK's point is that we are talking about a backup
not a starter. Why trade assets for a low-impact position? There is no way that an LMA-understudy who is more of a 4/5 is going to have more of an impact than a 3/4 or wing-type player.
Our front court is loaded with LMA, Oden and Prz getting the lion’s share of the minutes, with a few scraps left over for Howard and Outlaw to split.
by blacknoiseNW on Oct 26, 2009 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions
how much value does Travis have at this point? An UFA who is playing poorly?
I really hope the games start streaming on Blazers.com soon.
If I had to term the present situation, it would have to be a series of unfortunate events.
versatility for one. This team needs a 3/4 more than a 4/5
which was my salient point. Would it hurt to have a Kurt Thomas on the team? Probably not. I’m arguing that there aren’t enough minutes worth trading anyone who does have production value.
For all we knock TO every year – he finds ways to contribute to wins.
by blacknoiseNW on Oct 26, 2009 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions
what does it need a 3/4 more? Udoka played some 4 in SA and is a nice perimeter defender that culd have taken Travis’ spot. Then Thomas is a nice F/C to round out the frontcourt.
I really hope the games start streaming on Blazers.com soon.
If I had to term the present situation, it would have to be a series of unfortunate events.
How many minutes are available?
Outlaw is the one wing on the Blazer roster than can create a matchup problem for certain opposing 4’s. The number of minutes available for that matchup are very low – but Outlaw is still the best option for that.
Is the team better by trading away a swing wing (…) for a banger (…) when the banger would have fewer minutes available than TO would garner by being more versatile?
by blacknoiseNW on Oct 26, 2009 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Travis against certain opposing 4s is a mismatch on both ends.
I really hope the games start streaming on Blazers.com soon.
If I had to term the present situation, it would have to be a series of unfortunate events.
Yeah, people forget Travis Outlaw is a matchup that ...
most players want to have for their sake. On defense, Outlaw gets lit up like a Christmas tree. And not like one with pretty lights, but rather one that catches fire around New Year’s Eve due to being dry and past its usefulness.
Dear Paul Allen:
Waive Patty Mills & sign Ime Udoka.
Sincerely,
AK1984
No, AK, you're smarter than this
Dante Cunningham was ahead of Ime on the depth chart. He’s a 3-4 or a 4-3, whatever you want to call him.
We had, let me see, Nic, Martell, Rudy (in a three guard lineup), and Dante ahead of Ime at the 3. Even if we traded Travis for a legit big man, Ime just isn’t up to speed anymore, and would never have seen the court. He was 15th man behind Dante.
And yes, I know Dante isn’t quick enough to defend some NBA 3s, but others he could have.
Well, now we’re not so completely overloaded at the wing positions any more. We still could use another big man, I agree. But the picture changes with any long term injury.
I cannot believe, I simply cannot believe, that someone who is always blethering on about “roster balance” wanted to add Ime. We have about 37 1/2 guys who can play SF and you wanted to add Ime. And they are all better than he is.
I can tell you how to make an Excel spreadsheet that proves Portland wins 62 games this year.
I think his thinking
has to do with defense, not holistic betterness.
Ime has a reputation of being defensive and has some stats to prove it. While outlaw puts up incredible offensive numbers (yes, that can be a double entendre if you want), Ime has put up some nice defensive stats. As we’re over loaded on offense and as we need a serious kick in the ka-bump on defense, I could see it making sense.
I don’t agree because I don’t think Ime is as good as AK believes, but I do agree that losing Nic and the defensive abilities he brings is goign to hurt the blazers if not replaced by someone. My hope is that Batum takes over Websters body.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
You expressed my position in a more easygoing manner. I thank you for that.
Dear Paul Allen:
Waive Patty Mills & sign Ime Udoka.
Sincerely,
AK1984
OK, and it makes sense
Spurs fans are no where near as high on Ime as you are, FWIW.
I can tell you how to make an Excel spreadsheet that proves Portland wins 62 games this year.
Yeah
although that lesson has yet to be learned by the guy who’s making the big bucks.
when will Roy learn? I mean, c’mon…
Dude, what are you doing, man? Why you gotta be holding a corn dog when I go for a high-five??
Brandon Roy doesn't just make the "big bucks," for he makes the bigger bucks.
All kidding aside, I’m curious as to Kevin Pritchard’s salary. My guess is a couple million a year.
Dear Paul Allen:
Waive Patty Mills & sign Ime Udoka.
Sincerely,
AK1984
You are going to bitch about roster balance, again?
Amazing, last week you were complaining about the logjam at SF. Now we have a serious injury to our starting SF. thank goodness we have depth at that position.
Perhaps you enjoy the sound of your own complaints?
I do agree with you that Batum’s perimeter defense will be sorely missed, and with the notion that Ime might have been useful in the short run. But I think you are likely overstating the difference in defensive abilities between Webster and Udoka. Webster is likely to be improved from the level he was at two years ago. He is lighter and leaner than he was then. Udoka has clearly slowed.
In the long run, having Webster in the starting five probably makes it easier to play Miller and Roy together because Webster will help space the floor better than Batum would have.
by upper left corner on Oct 27, 2009 9:09 AM PDT up reply actions
Nic was not
But he will be. He is 19 years old playing 15 minutes a game for Pete’s sake. Give him 30 minutes a game and some coverage in big games and everyone would see how significant for OUR team he was on D.
Might not made of made all NBA, but he was Blazer D MVP.
Land Rondo.
by loyal_blazer on Oct 26, 2009 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions
disagree on the last point
Joel was the Blazer defensive MVP last year, easily
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
Yeah, Joel Przybilla was the best defensive player on the Portland Trail Blazers last season.
Dear Paul Allen:
Waive Patty Mills & sign Ime Udoka.
Sincerely,
AK1984
didn’t he have the best def. on/off in the league?
I really hope the games start streaming on Blazers.com soon.
If I had to term the present situation, it would have to be a series of unfortunate events.
I think so
The defense was noticeably better when he was in the games.
"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely
Oden was good
When he wasn’t committing his stupid reaching fouls. Which he did a very good job of avoiding in the pre-season.
"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely
And that was with Batum mostly not playing
Hard to say if that will continue with Oden playing against starters instead of training camp fodder, but it’s at least hope.
I'm pretty sure he initially injured it when he was with the Blazers.
"Ain't nothin' in this world for free."
Nic said this summer his priority was the French team
I think this had something to do with Blazers decision to appease the young guy
Land Rondo.
by loyal_blazer on Oct 26, 2009 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Didn't Jameer Nelson have this injury/surgery last year?
Like, right before the All-Star Break? He was able to come back and play in the playoffs.
"Ain't nothin' in this world for free."
I don't know if he had surgery
But yes he did. I think Nic is gone until February or so. Probably won’t start really at all but be eased back in.
"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely
He did not have surgery, he played through it once it had healed a bit
The danger is that the shoulder could pop again when it gets a hit
pretty sure Nelson did have the surgery.
http://www.insidehoops.com/blog/?p=3538
"Ain't nothin' in this world for free."
But probably won't
If you have surgery.
"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely
I think Nic is gone until February
This would be excellent timing, if true. KP and Nate could “shine Travis up” by playing him more minutes (than he would’ve gotten if Batum had been healthy) and then pull the trigger on a playoff-roster-improving deal (read: vewteran PF/C) at the deadline in mid-Feb. Meanwhile, Nic would be just about ready to come off the DL, and there would be PT available for a slow-but-steady comeback, in time for the post season
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
"read: vewteran PF/C "
do we need another one of those?
The Princess of Blazersedge
It just takes an iron fist to keep the riff raff under control and her princess hand is mad strong- Idoltime
sometimes, I'm in a hurry
and other times, I hit the cracks in between the keys
what would I give for an “edit” feature with a 5 minute “grace period” after posting?
(probably nothing, but I’ve seen it done on other chat pages)
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Wow...this really hurts
I did not like any of our small forwards for this team besides Batum. Martell does not look ready yet. Travis has shown he is not suited to start on this team.
our logjam at the 3 now seems..depleted...
it’s so weird to not have a logjam at the 3 now…
"There are a few teams you have to watch out for in the fourth quarter."
"Yeah, but Portland definitely is not one of them."
-New Orleans Hornets broadcasters at the end of the third quarter with the Hornets leading 74-59. Portland later ends up winning 97-89.
"They don't mind him shooting that shot at all. Rudy Fernandez is not that great of a 3pt shooter."
-New Orleans Hornets broadcasters right after a Rudy Fernandez missed 3pter. Rudy Fernandez finished the game with three 3pters on six attempts.
Batum played only 17 mpg last season
so extrapolating his injury to 2009/2010 winning percentage based off last year’s impact is a logical fallacy.
he'll have 4 more chances in the playoffs to do that
"There are a few teams you have to watch out for in the fourth quarter."
"Yeah, but Portland definitely is not one of them."
-New Orleans Hornets broadcasters at the end of the third quarter with the Hornets leading 74-59. Portland later ends up winning 97-89.
"They don't mind him shooting that shot at all. Rudy Fernandez is not that great of a 3pt shooter."
-New Orleans Hornets broadcasters right after a Rudy Fernandez missed 3pter. Rudy Fernandez finished the game with three 3pters on six attempts.
by Tofu Anonymous on Oct 26, 2009 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Yup
Btw, love the “OMG” look on LMA’s face.
"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely
by skywaker9 on Oct 26, 2009 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
so your predicting
the Blazers will sweep the l@kers? Bold prediction my friend….bold.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
Maybe Martell can step it up
I can tell you how to make an Excel spreadsheet that proves Portland wins 62 games this year.
Hey, i’m as optimistic as the next guy. But you gotta let people grieve the loss of a very fun player for at least a little bit.
I really hope the games start streaming on Blazers.com soon.
If I had to term the present situation, it would have to be a series of unfortunate events.
pau gasol let out a sigh of relief.
"There are a few teams you have to watch out for in the fourth quarter."
"Yeah, but Portland definitely is not one of them."
-New Orleans Hornets broadcasters at the end of the third quarter with the Hornets leading 74-59. Portland later ends up winning 97-89.
"They don't mind him shooting that shot at all. Rudy Fernandez is not that great of a 3pt shooter."
-New Orleans Hornets broadcasters right after a Rudy Fernandez missed 3pter. Rudy Fernandez finished the game with three 3pters on six attempts.
by Tofu Anonymous on Oct 26, 2009 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions
It's not about not grieving
but we can still hope Martell dunks on Pau. After all, he went after a dunk on Joel.
I can tell you how to make an Excel spreadsheet that proves Portland wins 62 games this year.
If he's only out 3 mos...
He will be able to play them in February and April… For sure in April…..
I bet Kobe’s breathing a sigh of relief
C'est la vie
But if you had to choose one starter to be out 5-6 months it’d be Nic.
This could hurt Oden’s court time (and therefore the win count) as he may become more foul prone if the perimeter defense becomes more pourous.
Things slide around as far as who covers what position for how long but it’s covered. The Howard signing looks better and better in the case of any more injuries.
by LaughingJon on Oct 26, 2009 1:05 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
i'd choose blake
in a heartbeat. the guy backing him up is better than he is. i don’t feel that way at the 3. the best 3 on the team other than webster is roy.
I don't think it hurts the team all that much
Batum played less than 20 minutes a game last year. Now that Webster is back, the SF position won’t be a huge drop off. An injury to any other rotation would be more devastating. Batum will be back this year and will play at least half the season.
"I'm at the thingamajig talking the yakety-yak" - Kenny Smith
..basically, here’s what I expect will happen now, until Nic is back.
First Unit (post Nic injury)
1 – Blake, 2 – Roy, 3 – Webster, 4 – Aldridge, 5 – Oden
Second Unit (post Nic injury)
1 – Miller, 2 – Rudy, 3 – Outlaw/Roy, 4 – Outlaw/Howard, 5 – Pryzbilla
Where as before Howard wasn’t going to see many minutes (or very limited) behind Outlaw backing up Aldridge. I think we’ll see a fair amount of the Miller/Rudy/Roy tandum in the back court too. Especially if the matchup is soft for Roy at the 3. Really is just depends on how well Rudy and Outlaw are shooting the ball. I think it’s a given that Webster starts at the 3.
Regarding Hedo Türkoğlu:
Look at the bright side, Blazers fans -- you dodged a bullet. He peaked statistically two years ago. He's allegedly 30 but could be closer to 32 or 33 for all we know. (Do you trust Turkish birth certificates? And isn't it weird that he played four years of pro ball in Turkey in the 1990s?)
- Bill Simmons of ESPN.com
Is anyone else stoked about this news?
Sounds horrible, but I think minutes were going to be a huge issue for Nate, especially in the beginning of the season. This frees up time for Webster, Outlaw and even Fernandez—guys who would have been starved otherwise.
You never want to see a guy go down, but this makes me breathe a lot easier about the rotation.
He won't lose a season
3-5 months is the approximate timeline for this.
"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely
and Martell’s foot… he’ll be back in December!… Greg is day to day, he’s out for a month…
I really hope the games start streaming on Blazers.com soon.
If I had to term the present situation, it would have to be a series of unfortunate events.
Although they brought Martell back
And then he broke it again IIRC.
"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely
There's some questioning of whether Martell should have been on the court in December
We’ll probably never know for sure.
after five minutes of game action it magically broke again? The prevailing thought is that maybe Martell should’ve taken a bit more time off. Not really our place to judge, but I find coincidence to be unlikely.
I really hope the games start streaming on Blazers.com soon.
If I had to term the present situation, it would have to be a series of unfortunate events.
I remember him going down in a heap
And thinking Oh (expletive).
"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely
By the time he gets back, he needs to get back in game shape
The season is 6 months plus playoffs (hopefully). If he’s on the far end of that spectrum, we;ll be 65 or so games into the season, and Batum will just start getting into game shape. And I doubt Nate’s going to want to adjust the rotation for the playoffs, when he’s normally tightening it.
If he’s back in 3 and in game shape in 4, great. But it’s a reasonable concern to have. We never want to see injuries.
I munged the numbers a bit when typing that up, let me know if that's nonsensical.
65 games is around 5 months into the season, that’s what I meant there.
we do not need to free up time for outlaw
"I think twittering and all that facebook crap just makes you a loser." ~ Charles Barkley
Why not?
"The difference between a democracy and a dictatorship is that in a democracy you vote first and take orders later; in a dictatorship you don't have to waste your time voting"
"I don't like jail, they got the wrong kind of bars in there"
Charles Bukowski
If Rudy were to start...
I’d start Miller with him.
I realize that just because someone starts, it doesn’t mean that they play a lot of minutes. But if they can all learn to play together well, then why not start your best players? Build an early lead and let the other team exhaust themselves trying to dig out of it. That would certainly be a change of pace.
μὴ φοβοῦ, μόνον πίστευε.
Miller/Rudy/Roy/Aldridge/Oden would be an interesting lineup to say the least
and potentially our best lineup. Its unlikely Roy would go along with starting at the 3 though. He likes to loaf on defense until crunch time.
It's too bad we couldn't get Roy to sacrifice for the team.
Is the Roy is selfish joke still going around?
μὴ φοβοῦ, μόνον πίστευε.
That's the craziest part.
Once the joke became a Blazeredge meme, Brandon Roy started to display actual signs of selfishness.
Dear Paul Allen:
Waive Patty Mills & sign Ime Udoka.
Sincerely,
AK1984
If I call him shellfish...
will he start pinching people? Will he no longer be kosher?
μὴ φοβοῦ, μόνον πίστευε.
That's the line up I dreamed of when we signed Miller
Run and gun, give it to Roy in the half court.
Nate likes Rudy, but as Ben said above
Nate pointed to defending elite perimter players, knocking down the open shot and general fit with Blake, Roy, Aldridge and Oden as his criteria for determining his starters
the “defending elite perimeter players” part of that criteria would appear to disqualify Rudy
FWIW, Roy is no great shakes as a perimeter defender, either
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
NO!!!
3 guard lineup is situational and definitely not a regular rotation.
"The difference between a democracy and a dictatorship is that in a democracy you vote first and take orders later; in a dictatorship you don't have to waste your time voting"
"I don't like jail, they got the wrong kind of bars in there"
Charles Bukowski
Why surgery was delayed
Takes the pressure off of Nate. It’s all a conspiracy.
Nate and Brandon have been talking about sacrifices, giving up playing time. Nic just took it farther than they expected.
He’ll be fine by the time it matters. We’ll be fine as a team, too.
I can tell you how to make an Excel spreadsheet that proves Portland wins 62 games this year.
Did you see that in your Excel spreadsheet?
"Either way we have two phenomenal units. I'm excited to play with either one." - Martell Webster
I can make my spreadsheet say just about anything
I can tell you how to make an Excel spreadsheet that proves Portland wins 62 games this year.
If Travis gets the start...
I will more than likely gain weight with depression… Here in the NW we have enough problems with that… It rains all the time… Coach Nate: Please don’t increase the suicide rate by not starting Webster… Portlanders don’t deserve it!
"Experience is that marvelous thing that enables us to recognize a mistake when we make it again" ~ Dupree
Webster will start
Travis and Rudy are both classic sixth men types.
"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely
I hope so... I really do
"Experience is that marvelous thing that enables us to recognize a mistake when we make it again" ~ Dupree
According to Ben
Webster was practicing with the starters today.
"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely
Yeah which I like
But knowing coach Webster will have 1 “off” quarter and coach will start moving starters around
"Experience is that marvelous thing that enables us to recognize a mistake when we make it again" ~ Dupree
Nate tried Outlaw with the starters last fall
the experiment lasted a few games, then he went with a 19 year-old rookie SF
so I think you’re safe, as long as Martell stays healthy
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
If we translate “torn labrum” into French, we get “déchirées labre”. If one rearranges the letters you will form the anagram “He cradles rib”.
I’m not sure how the rest of you analyze a critical situation like this, but this is how I do it.
I’ll let the results speak for themselves.
The cowards never started
The weak died along the way
Only the strong survived
They were the Trailblazers
by lukeyhere on Oct 26, 2009 1:11 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
I wonder if he'll be operated on by
Dr. “Re-attach me”
(he was Raef’s shoulder surgeon) try saying those last 2 words 3 times fast!
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
does anyone else see the irony in this?
Webster – projected starter for 08-09 season…injured, out for season basically and batum becomes starter
Batum – projected starter for 09-10 season…injured, out for good chunk of time and webster becomes starter…
the last thing players want now is to be the projected starting small forward for the blazers
"There are a few teams you have to watch out for in the fourth quarter."
"Yeah, but Portland definitely is not one of them."
-New Orleans Hornets broadcasters at the end of the third quarter with the Hornets leading 74-59. Portland later ends up winning 97-89.
"They don't mind him shooting that shot at all. Rudy Fernandez is not that great of a 3pt shooter."
-New Orleans Hornets broadcasters right after a Rudy Fernandez missed 3pter. Rudy Fernandez finished the game with three 3pters on six attempts.
Yeah I've been thinking about the irony since the second I saw the story
I wondered if Nate will hold Batum’s starting spot like he did for Webster, assuming Webster plays well. We all probably know the answer.
Batum is probably extra frustrated that he may have been demoted due to injury, the same was he was promoted.
it’s a paradox.
I really hope the games start streaming on Blazers.com soon.
If I had to term the present situation, it would have to be a series of unfortunate events.
paradox in context of it being a contradiction.
I really hope the games start streaming on Blazers.com soon.
If I had to term the present situation, it would have to be a series of unfortunate events.
....covered in Secret Sauce (thank you News Radio)
"its tough to play with one eye, unless you're a pirate." Delonte West
"una canasta a Pau en la cara" Rudy
by Honka Playboy on Oct 26, 2009 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions
a paradox wrapped in an enigma
then dipped in warm chocolate
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Mmmmmmmmmm...
Chuck Norris' tears cure cancer. Too bad he has never cried.
by FiveOhThree-RipCity!! on Oct 26, 2009 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions
I was thinking before this
That Webster was going to start in maybe December or so. This speeds up the timetable. Sucks that we lose Batum of course.
"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely
after reading Batum's blog (sidebar)
it’s pretty clear that Nic’s injury was the only way that Webster was going to ever start at the SF
ever again.
Nate told #88 to hurry back, and he’ll get his starting job back just as soon as he’s healthy
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
This is TRBL.
Only mitigating factor is that he should be able to recover early enough to have some time before the playoffs (hopefully) which is when his ability to defend is most valuable. We should still be able to rack up wins in the regular season, but individual matchups (cough L@kers cough) will be more difficult without his perimeter defense.
"B-Roy is the best shooting guard I have played against"
-Ron Artest
Somewhere
Bill Simmons is silently chuckling. Hopefully he isn’t our SI jinx!
"I saw him in the face" Sergio's quote on the latest alley-oop to Rudy.
If it were any of the big 3
I’d join you in panicking but its not.
"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely
I'm not panicking
I like Nic and think the world of his potential. But bottom line he only played 18 minutes a game last year as a spot up shooter (something Martell should do just as well) and as a defensive specialist. We just have to play better team defense this year to offset the loss.
"I saw him in the face" Sergio's quote on the latest alley-oop to Rudy.
by blazermaniac32 on Oct 26, 2009 1:25 PM PDT up reply actions
don't even start
"I think twittering and all that facebook crap just makes you a loser." ~ Charles Barkley
We have cover...
His Clippers just loss Blake Griffin to a broken knee cap. He’s in no position to talk right now.
Long live
WAMRO
Webster
Alridge
Miller
Roy
Oden
"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely
With Webster struggling with conditioning, I had moved away from RAMWO for the moment
I think if Webster is hitting open threes, RAMWO may be a good option during the season again.
I prefer RAWMO
that’s the started lineup I voted for in the poll, a few week’s back
besides, it sounds cool
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
easily the best acronym yet.
the cosmos have spoken!
I hate u
The Princess of Blazersedge
It just takes an iron fist to keep the riff raff under control and her princess hand is mad strong- Idoltime
hate is a very strong word
"There are a few teams you have to watch out for in the fourth quarter."
"Yeah, but Portland definitely is not one of them."
-New Orleans Hornets broadcasters at the end of the third quarter with the Hornets leading 74-59. Portland later ends up winning 97-89.
"They don't mind him shooting that shot at all. Rudy Fernandez is not that great of a 3pt shooter."
-New Orleans Hornets broadcasters right after a Rudy Fernandez missed 3pter. Rudy Fernandez finished the game with three 3pters on six attempts.
by Tofu Anonymous on Oct 26, 2009 1:17 PM PDT up reply actions
it's a strong feeling
"Your best?!?!! Losers always whine about their best. Winners go home and &^%@ the prom queen"
Fortunately
there is no “u” in “broyposse”.
Or in “jscot”. Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. Probably better see the doctor about that.
I can tell you how to make an Excel spreadsheet that proves Portland wins 62 games this year.
If he missed the entire season, I project it would cost us 2-3 games.
assuming we split his minutes among Outlaw and Martell. If we rather do more of Rudy at the 2 with Roy at the 3, we could conceivably get that down to 1-2. This is a tough blow, but it could be a lot worse.
and if Martell becomes the player he could be, it lessens the blow… it’s all about hope now.
Sucks though.
I really hope the games start streaming on Blazers.com soon.
If I had to term the present situation, it would have to be a series of unfortunate events.
Well, given that he was already a fringe starter on a decent team
I’d say that’s probably his floor as long as he hasn’t developed permanent side effects. Still, going to be interesting to see what happens with him this year.
We're very deep at the wings
It’s just that the defense will pay a price.
I can tell you how to make an Excel spreadsheet that proves Portland wins 62 games this year.
Rudy is not a 3!
Name off all the elite 3s in the league. What makes you think lanky Rudy has a snowball’s chance of guarding any of them? It’s not going to happen. Point is a better bet for a secondary position for Rudy.
offensive position vs. defensive position
Even with a health Batum, we would likely have seen plenty of Miller/Roy/Rudy lineups this year. Rudy plays the corner 3 spot on offense, but guards the 2 on defense. Vice versa for Roy.
Now, we’ll probably see a bit more of that combo than we would already have been expecting too.
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
and somewhere, Brandon is saying to himself
“crap, now I have to guard those big SFs again…”
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Point would be a better secondary position for Rudy
if we had our starting PG go down. Since it was our starting SF, you plug the gap with the guys you have.
Our three guard lineup was highly effective last year.
I can tell you how to make an Excel spreadsheet that proves Portland wins 62 games this year.
I think the arguement is that
roy can play 3, he is big enough to guard threes and rudy can play 2. we just don’t want to admit to making roy play slightly of of position.
They should cut Pendergraph and sign Udoka.
Pendergraph’s not an NBA player.
I'd rather wait
Even if we did this, Udoka still wouldn’t even dress for games, let alone play. Why make that move unless and until we need to? Sure, if Rudy, Martell, or Outlaw go down, then it’s time to start looking at this type of move. Until then, it’s just shuffling around guys in suits behind the bench.
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
Unlike Patty Mills, Jeff Pendergraph has a guaranteed salary this season.
For now, I’d keep Pendergraph. Mills, however, should be waived immediately.
Dear Paul Allen:
Waive Patty Mills & sign Ime Udoka.
Sincerely,
AK1984
You can't teach size or quickness.
Pendergraph has neither: he’s too small to play the 5 and too slow to play the 4. Mills at least has potential to do something if he recovers.
Pendergraph’s salary isn’t that much to take the hit on.
Well, I agree about Jeff Pendergaph. At best, Pendergraph is Etan Thomas.
However, Patty Mills is also a non-prospect. The dude is an inefficient, defensively weak waterbug.
Dear Paul Allen:
Waive Patty Mills & sign Ime Udoka.
Sincerely,
AK1984
but hey
JP’s better than DeJuan Blair!
right, Blazer scouting staff?
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
They were just scared to pull the trigger.
There have been so many frustrating injuries derailing Blazer teams. The potential reward for drafting Blair would have been better than Pendergraph so the move is perplexing. Blair didn’t even work out for the PTBs, did he?
another laugh out loud momen
“mills … sould be waived immediately”
S
The Princess of Blazersedge
It just takes an iron fist to keep the riff raff under control and her princess hand is mad strong- Idoltime
What if Webster gets injured again?
If his foot problems are chronic this season will have some pretty different rotations than we expected …
by Sound_Automatic on Oct 26, 2009 1:24 PM PDT reply actions
we'll see a lot more 3 guard lineups
and Howard will be in the rotation at the 4 as Outlaw gets a bulk of the minutes at the 3. And Dante better be ready to play…
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
we waive mills and sign ime
"There are a few teams you have to watch out for in the fourth quarter."
"Yeah, but Portland definitely is not one of them."
-New Orleans Hornets broadcasters at the end of the third quarter with the Hornets leading 74-59. Portland later ends up winning 97-89.
"They don't mind him shooting that shot at all. Rudy Fernandez is not that great of a 3pt shooter."
-New Orleans Hornets broadcasters right after a Rudy Fernandez missed 3pter. Rudy Fernandez finished the game with three 3pters on six attempts.
by Tofu Anonymous on Oct 26, 2009 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions
He could be gone until the playoffs or even next season...
I took this off a medical website:
You may enjoy walking, Stairmaster and stationary bicycle riding within one to
two weeks after surgery. Jogging, and regular bicycle riding can start two to three months after surgery, as can gentle golf strokes. Swimming, running, and tennis ground strokes start four to six months after surgery.
A return to overhead throwing, tennis strokes and contact sports require at least six months of rehabilitation, and a full return to competitive overhead sports requires 12 months. YOur return to weight lifting is unpredictable. You may need one full year before performing activities such as the bench press and you may never recover enough to lift heavy weights
Nope
That’s for people in normal fitness. Athletes can generally recover much quicker.
"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely
where are you getting your info?
I hope what you say is true.
I know this from experience
With athletes who are merely college level. People who are fitter recover faster.
"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely
Yeah, there’s ZERO chance Rudy plays 3 this year. He’s not a 3. Outlaw will see most of Webster’s backup minutes with Roy stealing a few here and there, depending on the matchup. Then they’ll just swing Howard over and use him like they used Outlaw behind LA.
Regarding Hedo Türkoğlu:
Look at the bright side, Blazers fans -- you dodged a bullet. He peaked statistically two years ago. He's allegedly 30 but could be closer to 32 or 33 for all we know. (Do you trust Turkish birth certificates? And isn't it weird that he played four years of pro ball in Turkey in the 1990s?)
- Bill Simmons of ESPN.com
Rudy played a lot of 3 last year, on OFFENSE
Rudy will play a lot of 3 this year, on OFFENSE.
In those situations, Roy will defend the 3.
How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009
Time to go get Stephen Jackson
This is a huge loss, IMO, because not only we lose Batum’s ability to cover multiple guys but also his ability to generate turnovers out on the perimeter. As you might remember, we were dead last in the NBA the year before last when Webster and Outlaw manned the 3 position. Webster isn’t a bad individual, one on one defender (neither is Outlaw as long as he doesn’t have to switch on anyone or read opposing offense, etc) but neither of them can play the passing lanes. Roy plays good D when he tries, but he doesn’t anticipate passing lanes well either.
Ime doesn’t really help, either. His defense regressed over last few years and he was never that good at generating turnovers anyway.
by xedubx on Oct 26, 2009 1:29 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
And one of our two best finishers on the break...
LaMarcus being the other.
I would love it
if we can tone down the crazy, jackson is the perfect player for this team. but there is a lot of CRAZY
my dad had this surgery and it ended his baseball career
jussayin
The Princess of Blazersedge
It just takes an iron fist to keep the riff raff under control and her princess hand is mad strong- Idoltime
i hate u
"There are a few teams you have to watch out for in the fourth quarter."
"Yeah, but Portland definitely is not one of them."
-New Orleans Hornets broadcasters at the end of the third quarter with the Hornets leading 74-59. Portland later ends up winning 97-89.
"They don't mind him shooting that shot at all. Rudy Fernandez is not that great of a 3pt shooter."
-New Orleans Hornets broadcasters right after a Rudy Fernandez missed 3pter. Rudy Fernandez finished the game with three 3pters on six attempts.
by Tofu Anonymous on Oct 26, 2009 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Them were da old days
Torn labrums do not end baseball careers anymore – at least not major league careers.
by blacknoiseNW on Oct 26, 2009 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, heck ACLs used to be career-ending injuries
Now they are not that big a deal.
"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely
I'd have to do some checking ...
… but I believe very few good pitchers have returned to their pre-injury level after undergoing surgery for a torn labrum. The success of the procedure has not equaled that of “Tommy John” surgery.
hakkaa päälle !
no one said "good as new"
torn labrums just don’t end careers in any sport, these days
by blacknoiseNW on Oct 27, 2009 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions
Not to be a calm voice of reason here but
How many minutes did Nic play last year? How many of those were in crunch time? Are we really losing a 4th quarter shut down guy here?
Not that he won’t be missed but our crunch time 3 was always Roy/Rudy. Don’t think that has changed, assuming Rudy is healthy.
No
He was mainly playing most of the 1st and 3rd. I don’t remember him really ever being on the floor late.
"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely
He was on the floor late as an inbounding defender, as early as e.g. in that big home win against Houston.
But on offense, sure, that was all Travis all the time.
i thought our crunchtime 3 was outlaw...
"There are a few teams you have to watch out for in the fourth quarter."
"Yeah, but Portland definitely is not one of them."
-New Orleans Hornets broadcasters at the end of the third quarter with the Hornets leading 74-59. Portland later ends up winning 97-89.
"They don't mind him shooting that shot at all. Rudy Fernandez is not that great of a 3pt shooter."
-New Orleans Hornets broadcasters right after a Rudy Fernandez missed 3pter. Rudy Fernandez finished the game with three 3pters on six attempts.
by Tofu Anonymous on Oct 26, 2009 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions
It was
Trout had 6 game-winning shots last season, I don’t think Batum had 1.
"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely
Travis didn’t have six game winning shots. I think tha’ts over the last two years.
batum did have one, against the Nets.
I really hope the games start streaming on Blazers.com soon.
If I had to term the present situation, it would have to be a series of unfortunate events.
Heard that on ESPN
During one of our late season broadcasts.
"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely
Everyone uses that stat
many games are won, many games are not even close with Outlaw seeing less time on the court.
“Hey, thanks for scoring in the last second to make up for the many points you lost us during the course of the game”
I dont think its a great trade. You keep the 6 game winning shots, Ill take my chances elsewhere
Land Rondo.
by loyal_blazer on Oct 26, 2009 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Outlaw's recent clutchness in crunch-time is a small sample size and an unrepeatable skill.
Dear Paul Allen:
Waive Patty Mills & sign Ime Udoka.
Sincerely,
AK1984
tell that to
“Big game Bob” Horry
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
No he was our crunchtime 4
It went Blak/Roy?rudy/TO/Aldridge
no we almost always had a center out there.
I really hope the games start streaming on Blazers.com soon.
If I had to term the present situation, it would have to be a series of unfortunate events.
offense-defense
when Nate needed a score, he went small. Joel would sub in for defense
I’m hoping Greg will be “in there” at the end of games this year. And Miller.
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Its true
He did only play 15 minutes a game. I wish he played 30, even when he looked “invisible” on the court. Gotta get the guy time to grow and develop. He is ahead of the curve for age/minutes played where as other are FAR behind.
Land Rondo.
by loyal_blazer on Oct 26, 2009 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions
KP kind of got bailed out on making hard choices
At the 3. Poop. I was more excited to watch Nic play than just about any Blazer. :( This thread is blowing up
by Sound_Automatic on Oct 26, 2009 1:39 PM PDT reply actions
As much as this sucks it is not the end of the world
I am huge on Nic but his biggest contributions were still a year or two off , here’s o hoping he heals quickly but the team will be fine barring more injuries.
"BEER IS LIVING PROOF THAT GOD LOVES US"
- Benjamin Franklin-
Yeah if any major player was going to get hurt
This is about as low impact as possible (sucks but not horrible). Better than any of the other four starters (whether Blake or Miller start).
"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely
This could be really good actually...
Yes, it sucks to lose Batum, and yes, I think he’s our best 3.
BUT, Martel is going to need some PT to get back into form. This is a great chance for him to do that.
Lets say Batum is back with no lingering side-effects in a few months. We could have two great options at the 3 then, instead of 1.
I dunno--we've been down this road before
Even if Batum is cleared to play in a few months, he’ll have tons of rust and his teammates will be used to playing without him. This is not good, no matter how we try to spin it.
"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla
hence my qualifier...
IF he’s back with no lingering side-effects… I can dream, right? =)
where are you watching tomorrow night?
warning: don’t tell me if you got the NBA package at home or I’ll move in
"its tough to play with one eye, unless you're a pirate." Delonte West
"una canasta a Pau en la cara" Rudy
by Honka Playboy on Oct 26, 2009 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Does this give the Blazers a chance to drive up Travis' value?
Or down? How much is remorseless gunner really worth?
by Sound_Automatic on Oct 26, 2009 1:56 PM PDT reply actions
Don't know
He’s a FA after this year I think so his value is not going to be great in a trade.
"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely
Sadly with Nic’s injury it also paints Miller in a much more favorable light as a starter. The big issue with Miller not starting was partly his lack of 3 pt. shooting ability (vs. Blake’s spacing) while on the floor with Nic. If we get Webster back shooting the lights out for 3, suddenly a Miller / Roy / Webster lineup looks more and more solid. I’m really not sure yet. Need to see Miller evolve in this offense and show us how he fits in playing alongside Roy first.
Regarding Hedo Türkoğlu:
Look at the bright side, Blazers fans -- you dodged a bullet. He peaked statistically two years ago. He's allegedly 30 but could be closer to 32 or 33 for all we know. (Do you trust Turkish birth certificates? And isn't it weird that he played four years of pro ball in Turkey in the 1990s?)
- Bill Simmons of ESPN.com
yep
bring in the RAWMO lineup, as soon as Brandon gives Nate the “thumbs up”
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
And your scoring on the 2nd unit would come from?
With Webster starting the need for Andre’s scoring and using Joel in the P-N-R is even greater.
"Either way we have two phenomenal units. I'm excited to play with either one." - Martell Webster
Sorry, but this is VERY bad news
I’m still in a bit of denial, or else I’d be truly bummed. A more-mature Nic Batum was going to be a key contributor this season. The Blazers simply don’t have anyone else who can do what he does.
"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla
his defense will be missed. at least we got martell back.
im starting to get a little annoyed at the national teams though, since they are responsible for aggravating rudys back spasms and batums shoulder. we pay these guys enough, they should be focusing on the regular season.
i dont know what this is
There goes our defense.
Say hello to swiss cheese!
Miller, Roy, Rudy… Not defenders…
Maybe next year.
And I agree with everyone who says that Batum has to sit out on the French team for one summer.
*Unless KP has a secret plan that makes this statement incorrect.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
Absolutely true.
But the Roy Rudy 2-3 combo last year gave our point differential quite a boost. Not saying that it was from defense, but it usually worked… except against Houston.
μὴ φοβοῦ, μόνον πίστευε.
If Nate will seriously make those three our starters.
I will celebrate.
It shouldn’t take long for those three together to realize that they actually need to play some defense and any motivation on that front is awesome.
Plus, on the offensive end it would be out of this world.
*Unless KP has a secret plan that makes this statement incorrect.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
Nick just wanted to get paid
I guess that he wanted his extension early. He saw it worked for Martell and Mills why not try it himself.
by Wink. on Oct 26, 2009 2:19 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Ugh
Hopefully Martell steps up and Travis gets a better flow going. Pretty bad news…
I hate Comcast.
Card carrying member of Team Bayless
I believe in Greg Oden
If you thought our defense was bad last year . . . .
the poster formerly known as sergioftw, in recovery
without batum
i can say we are the worst defensive team of the contending western teams. we really need a guy like him to D up the wings and point guards like kobe and melo. batum is more important in the playoffs, but this is a huge deal, my day is ruined.
This Calls for mid season trade talk!!!
by StocktonNEP on Oct 26, 2009 2:33 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
shoulder
I’m sure someone has already raised this question but how the heck did he get a clean bill of health when the Blazers called him to Portland this summer to have it looked at?
perhaps
it couldn’t be torn more than it already was and there was hope Batum could play through the injury.
you can never know whether surgery is needed until you determine whether injury will recur
in this case, it did – forcing surgery.
by blacknoiseNW on Oct 26, 2009 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions
No surprise
to the Blazer management. They’ve probably known this was a possibility and that’s why they might not have pulled the trigger on a trade at the SF position since they probably didn’t know how Webster might do.
Could be why Nate wasn’t worried about minutes for players.
I see that line of thinking too
They probably knew that Batum’s shoulder was going to need surgery and it was just a matter of time until Batum realized he should just get it done.
That explains why the SF position was so deep and it gives another reason why Ime was here.
Could be why Nate wasn’t worried about minutes for players
Could also be the reason wh Nate talked Ime into coming to Portland’s training camp
until another injured player made the 15-man roster, anyway…
So, can the Blazers request a roster exception to “replace” Batum on the 15-man roster while he’s out?
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
The NBA doesn't give short-term roster exemptions except in cases of extreme cricumstances.
Dear Paul Allen:
Waive Patty Mills & sign Ime Udoka.
Sincerely,
AK1984
so, in the traditional sense of the word "taxi-squad"
the Blazers are actually using their 3-man injured-reserve list for injured players: Pendergraph, Batum and Mills
that sure doesn’t leave ’em with much leeway, heading into the regular season
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
True, but team would have to be down to around 8 dressed players for the NBA to issue a ...
roster exemption. It sucks to have three guys who are injured, but that’s not toally uncommon in the NBA.
Dear Paul Allen:
Waive Patty Mills & sign Ime Udoka.
Sincerely,
AK1984
Plenty of leeway
If we have an injury that forces us to get someone, we’ll dump Mills. In a disaster situation, we could even dump Pendergraph.
I can tell you how to make an Excel spreadsheet that proves Portland wins 62 games this year.
Haven't you been saying Portland has a minutes crunch issue and needs to ...
… consolidate the roster?
How about a little consistency? If you think the team needs to be utilizing an 8 or 9 man rotation, why would you be concerned about the last three spots on the roster? The three that don’t suit up.
hakkaa päälle !
Martell
“I did not like any of our small forwards for this team besides Batum. Martell does not look ready yet”
Yes, he seems to be making a slow comeback. Now things have changed, he has to accelerate the process.
As to Batum playing for the French national team: Blazers benefit from the improvement he makes to his basketball skills by playing in the summer. Only way you can guarantee no injuries is to embalm the players and put them into trophy cases.
only silver lining
The only silver lining I see in this is it should give Cunningham an opportunity to show what he can do.
Perhaps this forces McMillan's hand
to play at a faster tempo and mitigate the defensive liabilities. Play to andre miller’s strengths, depend on the reliable Blazer offense and rebounding prowess.
"I've hacked into your brain. You're throwing a party and no one's showing up."
Nate McMillan will never operate an up-tempo offense.
Dear Paul Allen:
Waive Patty Mills & sign Ime Udoka.
Sincerely,
AK1984
Considering our team is built around a potentially dominant Center, and
an all-star shooting guard, who likes to operate in the half court, the Blazers trying to be a running team would be like the Suns with Shaq, lots of weapons that can’t figure out a style of play to work for everyone. LMA and Miller might benefit from stepping on the gas pedal, but I don’t see it resulting in more wins with this group of players, unless Oden is a lot better at running the open court than I think he is. LMA also plays well in the half court. The reserve unit could definitely be a running unit with LMA in it, as has been discussed before, but we do have to look at what type of players our “big three” are, and it’s tough to imagine that group running a lot together.
I wholeheartedly agree that the Portland Trail Blazers are at its best with a slow-paced tempo.
Dear Paul Allen:
Waive Patty Mills & sign Ime Udoka.
Sincerely,
AK1984
I wholeheartedly disagree with your wholehearted agreement...
First, I really hope you’re wrong, and that the Blazers will at least double their putrid 9 fast break ppg of last year.
Second, wingy, LMA is a fastastic runner. Oden is a great defensive rebounder. They are two of the three components of a great fast break. All you need now is the ‘pusher’, which is Dre.
I sincerely hope that our All Star Shooting guard would figure out that there are a lot of easy baskets out there on the break!
Greg Oden is more known for his offensive rebounding, since it's Joel Przybilla who ....
brings it on the defensive glass. They’re both very well-rounded rebounders, though, so it’s kind of a moot point.
Dear Paul Allen:
Waive Patty Mills & sign Ime Udoka.
Sincerely,
AK1984
I also hope we will increase the number of fast break points,
I just don’t see the team as a “running team” like the Suns sans Shaq, or OKC with all their gunners. I would like the Blazers to be as much of a running team as the Lakers, in that they get a lot of transition buckets off forced turn overs and rebounds, but only take it when it’s there. In other words, I want them to be opportunistic, but when the opportunity is not there, or not likely, pull into a half court set, and get a quality shot.
I agree
Simple mathematics tells us that we score more points per possession than we give up per possession, so increasing the number of possessions is generally a good idea.
Not crazy stuff like GS or Phoenix, but never walk the ball up.
I can tell you how to make an Excel spreadsheet that proves Portland wins 62 games this year.
the Blazers like the potential of their post players
but if you want to post, you are much better off posting the bigs on the secondary fast break – before the defense has a chance to set.
Otherwise, the isolation post in the half-court set is deplorable basketball.
Just another reason to increase the pace – score earlier in the shot clock closer to the basket….
by blacknoiseNW on Oct 27, 2009 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions
On the BP Unfiltered blog, KP2 says if you take 60 games away from Batum as a first shot estimate...
… it costs the Blazers 0.8 wins in his system’s projections. So, perhaps my 2-3 win estimate was high. Or perhaps the SCHOENE projection is low.
He was good for 4 in wins produced
But slowly things happen that they cannot help and the Blazers Fellowship of the Ring begins to break apart
Berri's metric you mean?
but Outlaw’s WP48 was not too much less than half of Batum’s and if we assume Web’s will be about Travis’ and they split Nic’s minutes, we get back to the 2-3 projection, or slightly less than that if some of his minutes go to Rudy in creative lineups.
Eight player rotation
is usually what the ex-coaches cum pundits claim should be your team and I think the Blazers still have an excellent team. Offense wins games, good defense just helps you win when your offense stinks and Batum hadn’t yet proved he’d be an offensive factor.
If someone from the starting five had to get hurt, I'm glad it was him
the easiest to replace, the smallest impact last season. I wish him a speedy speedy lickety-brindle quick recovery
"its tough to play with one eye, unless you're a pirate." Delonte West
"una canasta a Pau en la cara" Rudy
Even over Blake. Or Miller for that matter, if he should start
"its tough to play with one eye, unless you're a pirate." Delonte West
"una canasta a Pau en la cara" Rudy
by Honka Playboy on Oct 26, 2009 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Wow guys
If you thought our defense relied on a 20 year old sophomore who played 18 mpg last year, we would be screwed anyway. We have strong post defense still, and McMillan is a good defensive coach.
"McMillan is a good defensive coach."
I wish as11osu was still around, because he was the best at debunking this myth.
Dear Paul Allen:
Waive Patty Mills & sign Ime Udoka.
Sincerely,
AK1984
But at least he TALKS a lot about defense.
That should count for something.
μὴ φοβοῦ, μόνον πίστευε.
After analyzing the output of Nate McMillan's teams, his talk of defense is just empty rhetoric.
2000-2001 Seattle SuperSonics: 24th Defensive Rating.
2001-2002 Seattle SuperSonics: 17th Defensive Rating.
2002-2003 Seattle SuperSonics: 17th Defensive Rating.
2003-2004 Seattle SuperSonics: 27th Defensive Rating.
2004-2005 Seattle SuperSonics: 27th Defensive Rating.
2005-2006 Portland Trail Blazers: 28th Defensive Rating.
2006-2007 Portland Trail Blazers: 26th Defensive Rating.
2007-2008 Portland Trail Blazers: 17th Defensive Rating.
2008-2009 Portland Trail Blazers: 13th Defensive Rating.
Dear Paul Allen:
Waive Patty Mills & sign Ime Udoka.
Sincerely,
AK1984
it's gonna be tough to bump that 13 upwards
without the long arms and quick feet of #88 , at least during the 1st half of the season
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
We'll still be better
because Greg Oden will be on the court more. Joel is an outstanding defender, but Greg is at least as good, and I think he’s going to be better this year.
And Greg draws fouls, which has an impact on the other end. If the opponent’s starting center is sitting down, he’s not scoring. And the more you limit their options, the better your chances of stopping them.
I can tell you how to make an Excel spreadsheet that proves Portland wins 62 games this year.
Forgot to mention
We’ll also be better because Andre is likely to be better defensively than Sergio was, because most of our guys have played defense together for another year, and because experience is a big factor in recognizing/anticipating situations, and our young guys have more experience now.
We’ll be a top 10 defensive team. Probably not top 5, maybe not close to top 5, but markedly better than last year. We were playing 30 mpg last year without Nic, remember.
I can tell you how to make an Excel spreadsheet that proves Portland wins 62 games this year.
Ask the Olympic team if Nate coaches good defense
They give him credit for making them much better this last year as well (LeBron, Carmelo, Wade).
It takes experience, desire and talent to be good defenders. We have not had 2 of those 3 until this year. B-Roy’s commitment will bring that desire and another year of experience will help.
"Either way we have two phenomenal units. I'm excited to play with either one." - Martell Webster
You don't think personnel and level of talent ...
… have any impact on these rankings?
hakkaa päälle !
Comment 543
Does this news really merit 543 comments?
I feel sorry for the kid. It would have been great if he could have built on his success in the Euro Hoops. But hey – he’s young and strong and he’ll recover nicely, I’m sure.
Until then we’ll get by with Martell and Travis at the 3 and Cunningham and Howard backing up Aldridge at the 4 – plus, it will mean more time for Rudy, with Roy playing some 3.
This is one of the reasons we acquired all this depth.
Get well soon Nic! – Elgin
Without you out there, we're nowhere here
by 22baylor on Oct 26, 2009 4:01 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Zone defense?
Obviously, it would depend heavily on the matchup (tough to run against topflight shooting teams) but could we see more zone from the Blazers on D, particularly if Rudy and Roy are paired together? Nate, despite the Blazers struggles, is widely regarded as a crack defensive coach. He basically has served as the “defensive coordinator” for the Redeem Team in recent years. If Portland is going to be relying on lineups that don’t really have a perimeter stopper, could this be a solution? I would love to see them try it out, and if it works it could open up more time for Fernandez, a very good thing given his ability as an offensive force.
I hate Comcast.
Card carrying member of Team Bayless
I believe in Greg Oden
but could we see more zone from the Blazers on D, particularly if Rudy and Roy are paired together?
Yes, out of necessity. Nate would prefer to play man-to-man, but one of Dean Demopoulos’ strengths is his experience coaching with Don Chaney at Temple. DD’s the Blazer assistant who specializes in zone defense, and he helps McMillian “mix things up” defensively to keep the opposing teams off balance
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
So weird
I ain’t read every comment, I’m sure this was said. Just… dang. Weird. Batum will be fine long term I am sure, and it just sucks after how well he did in the summer and all the promise he showed us last season. Oh well— he’ll still be very very good.
And we’re lucky… Martell could be primed for a mini-break out season. He didn’t always look good in pre-season, but he was active and energetic, and he was away from playing for a whole dang year. This will hurt us even if Martell has improved quite a bit (I don’t think he’d be as good of a defender as Batum), but it won’t hurt us that much.
Just makes, for one more year, the minutes juggle a helluva lot easier to manage. Now Martell and Rudy will get handed as many minutes as they could want, for the most part. The people who worry endlessly about rotations and minutes and players being unhappy can breathe easier.
To me, if people worried about chemistry, if anything this Batum injury HELPS chemistry. You remove a guy who HAS to play, and it creates more minutes for a guy like Rudy and possibly Miller (because you don’t have to squeeze Rudy in as a pseudo-PG), the two guys most likely to complain about role and minutes.
This solves that problem, to me.
Still sucks, but a good chunk of us should be relieved. Batum’ll be fine.
Mortimer
If any starter HAD to get hurt for a lengthy amount of time
We’d want it to be Batum, even if we love him more than Blake/Miller.
Thank goodness we’re the New Wave Hawks! Forwards for days.
M—
I love The Wave, and The New Wave sounds even better
do we do finger snapping for the ASL audience at home? Release a handful of ladybugs as we raise our arms?
I don’t know what New Wave Hawks are, young fella
"its tough to play with one eye, unless you're a pirate." Delonte West
"una canasta a Pau en la cara" Rudy
by Honka Playboy on Oct 26, 2009 4:28 PM PDT up reply actions
The Atlanta Hawks always had like 10 small forwards on their team
So do we, it seems like.
So, thank goodness we got 80 small forwards, because we absorb Batum going down rather easily.
Hence, New Wave Hawks. Forwards for days.
It’s not terribly anything really, it’s just words.
Mortimer
its fantastic
Ever Forwards
"its tough to play with one eye, unless you're a pirate." Delonte West
"una canasta a Pau en la cara" Rudy
by Honka Playboy on Oct 26, 2009 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions
Wading Through 544 posts
The only good thing about this is that it opens up some time for Martell to shine.I hope he does.But we will miss Dr Block.
Quid, Tu Anxius Es?
"its tough to play with one eye, unless you're a pirate." Delonte West
"una canasta a Pau en la cara" Rudy
by Honka Playboy on Oct 26, 2009 4:36 PM PDT up reply actions
er, ahem; as I was saying
with Batum’s bum shoulder and Martell’s bad foot it’s good Ime’s back. He’s bound to get some minutes this season. What? You say Ime’s… what’s that you say? Please, don’t use that language when refering to Mr. Allen. Where does that guy off.
I think Dante has the tools and proper tude to become a good defender
But at Villa they played that wierd zone and he is not going to learn to defend the perimiter overnight
by southern oregon on Oct 26, 2009 4:48 PM PDT reply actions
Plus I'm assuming his off the ball game and over BBIQ
Aren’t up to Batum’s snuff. That’s what made his lack of real offensive skill work with the starters… he knew how to cut, how to move, how to pass, etc.
Maybe Dante does too, I dunno… I just doubt it.
Mort
Cunningham had outstanding footwork on the pick and pop
he looked great playing alongside Pooh Jeter, just magine how he’d do with Andre
and Dante is a great “out of area” rebounder, he really has a nose for the ball
like I wrote a few months ago, he’s the anti-Trav
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Actually his BBIQ was very highly rated by Draft Express
And they noted good lateral foot speed to defend the perimeter.
"Either way we have two phenomenal units. I'm excited to play with either one." - Martell Webster
I remember that as well now
Remember reports saying he knows how and when to cut, move off the ball, knows what to do on defense, etc.
I’ll have to see it before we think we can rely on it of course… Batum growing up in the Euro system really helped him be a more pure role player, I think. That’d be awesome of Dante is cut from the same cloth; I just can’t say one way or another till I see more.
M—
interesting to compare Dante to other players of his ilk
Looking at Cunningham vs. Ariza, for instance (Draft Express) – Dante performed better in lateral quickness, max vertical, straight line speed and much much better in the bench.
Stronger, faster, quicker than Ariza – who has a reputation as an excellent defender. Also interesting – Webster had a better lane agility rating than Ariza – at almost 30 lbs heavier. However, Dante as significantly better than both at the time of draft.
Overall, I think it is clear that we have athletes with the physical tools to be good defenders.
by blacknoiseNW on Oct 27, 2009 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions
The year of Nic Batums entry into the NBA hall of fame will not be impacted by this minor setback...
He is still on track for 2022. Trust me, I’m good at this stuff. I have LOTS of experience.
Odds are, we get the smooth criminal (is that his nickname?) back a month or two before playoffs start, which is enough time to get into game shape, and Carmelo Anthony, Kobe Bryant, and Kyle Korver will all have horrible series against Portland.
by TrentEdwardsHoF2018 on Oct 26, 2009 4:54 PM PDT reply actions
how's Trent's injury recovery going?
and are you excited the Bills are now the first team to start a Stanford QB and a Harvard QB in the same season?
Nic will have fresh legs
to chase all of those scoring wings around, in the playoffs.
Deny passes, leak out on the fast break, etc
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
WHYYY?!!!!
I am such a huge fan. I think he has more to do with our success last year than one might thing with the minutes he played. He is just such an exciting and smart player. I really hope he recovers quickly and fully, and a month ago. Damn.
I totally agree with you
…regarding success and minutes played. His passion and ability to make a big play when the team was lagging…seemed to light a spark under the team at times.
one difference between a shoulder injury and a leg injury
Half way trough the rehab he will be able to run full speed,dribble and dunk lefthanded.no way you can keep your legs in shape with a foot or knee injury
by southern oregon on Oct 26, 2009 5:20 PM PDT reply actions
yeah, his cardio should be OK
and he won’t have too much atrophy…by the time he’s ceared for “basketball activities” it shouldn’t take too long for him to get back up to speed
the accuracy of his jumper will probably be the last area of “rust” to shake off
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
It sure is good Portland has all these bridges...
what with many people wanting to jump off them right now.
….SMH…..
Let’s try to keep this in perspective folks…….Yes, Batum was a most excellent find last year. But let’s remember how many minutes a game he played. And of all the positions where this could have happened, Portland just happens to have the starter from 2007-2008 returning from an injury.
I’m not saying Webster is hte same as Batum….obviously not. But at least we have another athletic veteran with starting experience to take Batum’s place.
Let’s not commit mass suicide until we see how this season is going to play out.
"I'm a man, but I can change.....if I have to......I guess." - Red Green
Who knew that pro-sports could lead to population control.
Besides the Romans, that is.
μὴ φοβοῦ, μόνον πίστευε.
by T Darkstar on Oct 26, 2009 6:42 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Ya but Roman
Fantasy Leagues sucked because the Christians played to lose.
Honor Alaa Abdelnaby.
First in the NBA. At least alphabetically
THE BEGINNING OF THE END CONTINUES!!!
i know some people who think the blazers went wrong with the miller signing are gonna say that.
i for one think this is gonna give rudy some minutes to take the nexst step into a playmaker like he said he wants to.
No one ever wants injury.
But this is a good reason not to just dump talent because they might not be happy. Injuries happen, and thank goodness we had a log-jam at the 3, or we might have worried more than we are. In fact, we are pretty well covered at every position, except Aldridge’s. That’s an amazing luxury. You don’t want to lose anyone, but it’s not season-ending if someone does go down, even if it would be Roy.
Webster isn’t quite as good as Batum, but it’s not like we’re bringing in Rodney Carney to start in Batum’s place. The drop-off isn’t that bad. And Webster has been doing alright out there, from what I hear (can’t see yet, can’t wait for tomorrow!). Feel bad for Batum though.
μὴ φοβοῦ, μόνον πίστευε.
by T Darkstar on Oct 26, 2009 6:53 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
The Draft Rodney Carney Movement
starts here.
Honor Alaa Abdelnaby.
First in the NBA. At least alphabetically
Sucks. Just Sucks. The one wing player ( other than obviously Brandon ) I really wanted to see this year.
Losing Nic could have a ripple effect on our bigs foul trouble if our perimeter D is as porous as it was last year without Nic. I am officially a little worried. Hopefully all my worries will be put to rest tomorrow night.
I knew this would happen. Last night when I found out he hurt it again. This was just all to
familiar. These things don’t go away. I know because my shoulder is messed up and it’s been that way for months. Sucks, should have gotten surgury a month ago. Not wait this long.
There's been a trade-off in place
Batum’s development and all his weaknesses (many indeed) versus Travis and Martell’s veteran strength’s and their known weaknesses. This is bound to put more pressure on Brandon’s and Greg’s defense but offensively things just got a lot more wide open. There’s going to be a lot more fire power on the floor now – deny it.
What good is fire power if you have Outlaw out there bumbling his defensive assignment?
The Blazers can’t beat the Mavs and Suns with offense alone—-they have to stop the pick and roll. Someday. Somehow.
I’m just glad Nic will be back in time for the stretch run so he can guard Mello and Artest.
"We're going to play the right way. It ain't about you. It's about us. We can be successful if we play together. And that's what it's about. In this league, playing hard, playing together. Your numbers shouldn't matter." - Coach McMillan
by Hipster Olympic Team! on Oct 26, 2009 9:06 PM PDT up reply actions
there goes our tayshaun prince
"shaq and zach randolph have the same trainer... "
best one liner i ever heard.
That's it!
Trade for Tayshaun Prince movement starts here.
Honor Alaa Abdelnaby.
First in the NBA. At least alphabetically
I sure hope nobody is still pissing themselves over lack of playing time for the bench...
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Oct 26, 2009 8:42 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
They are. Or more accurately, they are now pissing and moaning over ...
… something new.
It is kind of funny that the same people who were making a big deal about playing time and wanting to “consolidate” the roster are now worried about the team being limited by having the last three spots on the roster (Mills, Pendergraph and Batum) taken up by injured players.
hakkaa päälle !
Hey, Ime. Telephone call for you...
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
Fear not, O Blazerites
For I have seen our future, and it is bright!
Verily shall Oden smite our enemies.
And LaMarcus shall cause a torrent of arcing orbs to rain upon their heads.
And Brandon Roy shall dissect their brains.
And what foes yet stand shall be
Run ragged by Rudy,
Pounded by Przybilla,
Ravaged by Rex,
Tormented by Travis,
Winded by Webster,
Made miserable by Miller,
Bewildered by Blake,
Burnt by the Inferno, and
Deflowered by Howard.
Okay, I didn’t actually see that last part. The point is the Blazers are going to win a bunch of games, enough to qualify for the playoffs. And this year they will be smarter, tougher, and more determined than ever to win, win, win, baby. And that’s what they are going to do. Book it. For so it is written.
Have not a cow
But bow for Meow
And don’t you despair
Just breathe in the air
And tell a good joka
Like Ime Udoka
For this is our year
Forsake you all fear
Amen.
"Tell a good joka / like Ime Udoka"?
"We're going to play the right way. It ain't about you. It's about us. We can be successful if we play together. And that's what it's about. In this league, playing hard, playing together. Your numbers shouldn't matter." - Coach McMillan
by Hipster Olympic Team! on Oct 26, 2009 9:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Nooooooooooooo
Our best perimeter defender…
"We're going to play the right way. It ain't about you. It's about us. We can be successful if we play together. And that's what it's about. In this league, playing hard, playing together. Your numbers shouldn't matter." - Coach McMillan
by Hipster Olympic Team! on Oct 26, 2009 9:00 PM PDT reply actions
No, he is not the best at anything except
maybe running down players from behind. This is where all the depth let’s you sleep at night.
Y'all trip me out
9/10th’s of you where saying that Nic would start the season and Marty would eventually take his starting spot. If Coach Nate gives Marty the green light to shoot at will and his head is screwed on right all will be well. He’s got one of the prettiest shooting strokes I’ve ever seen. He just needs to check his conscience at the door to the Rose Garden and take any open shot that comes his way.
As for TO, he’s a player you can put on the floor that causes defenses to scramble because of his ability to score. That’s a good thing to have.
Yes, defense is important, but I’ll take reliable scorers over defenders anyday. Just find the guy with the hot hand and continue to feed him the ball and yes Broy needs to be selfish too.
Last time I checked, the team that scores the most points at the end of the game always wins.
Trying to put a positive spin on sucky news...
1) Nic, rest up, heal up, and come back fresh and strong when we really need you, in the playoffs…
2) Obviously will help with the minutes crunch.
A) Travis is back, anne…
B) More time for Howard to show LMA how to pass to Greg.
C) More time for Rudy!
D) More time for Duante
E) More time for the best lineup: Miller, Roy, Rudy, LMA, and GO
3) Maybe, just maybe, this might help Nate sell TEAM D… Lots of posts boil down to “well the Blazers team D isn’t great, we have the great anchors in the middle, but at least we have Nic to guard the other team’s best shooter..” In essence letting the rest of the Blazers off the hook, and letting Nic to the dirty work. Not saying the Blazers players \thought that way (maybe a little bit), but now, they will have to rely on each other.
I’m also still optomistic about the Blazers winning the division, so, nice job assembling for depth, KP… But let’s only have two Euros max on the team, eh?
let’s only have two Euros max on the team, eh?
Well, last year they had 3. Are you saying that when Freeland comes over, Rudy has to clear out? How about Claver, can he and Batum coexist? Does Mills sort of qualify as a "Euro’?
there ain’t no cure for the summertime blues of watching your team’s Euro player keep on pushing his body to fatigue during the time that (most) of the American players are taking 3-4 months “off”. It’s bound to catch up with ‘em at some point, the NBA regular season is merciless. But there’s a lot of talent “over there” and KP has year-round scouts who are committed to discover it, so I doubt he’ll be able to resist adding more overseas kids in future drafts
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I have a few opinions on this..
some of them on the actual topic of Batum being injured, but mostly on everyones comments.
First of all, THIS SUCKS. We are going to miss Batums lock-down defense, his trailing players on the break and erasing there shot (kind of like lebron does quite often) and of course, we are definitely going to be deprived of watching Batum get, at least, 3 and 4 on Gasol. I was really hoping that Batum was going to be playing right around 25 minutes a game.
After reading through most of the comments, (I had planned on reading them all, but after 500 comments, I got kind of bored) I was disgusted by some of the positions that people were taking. The one that got me going the most, was the recurring remarks to Outlaws success being wanted for reasons other than the success of the team. “hopefully Outlaw plays good so that his trade value goes up”. How about, “I hope Outlaw plays good, because when he does, the team is usually playing good as well”. Or how about, “Maybe Outlaw steps up his game this season after an off season of working hard, which could result in a future in Portland”. I despise how Outlaw is already written off as no longer on this team. He has not been traded, nor is there a guarantee that he will be traded. BLAHHHHH!!!!!! ARGHHHH!!!!!
This unfortunate circumstance may turn out to be helpful in the team chemistry area (not in the BRoy Dre area, but regarding the minute crunch, as stated many, many, many times throughout this thread). The big whole in defense, as the result of Batum’s injury, could very well be negated by the “happier players” because of the minutes this will free up.
Another thing I was wondering, could this speed up Andre’s move to the starting lineup? Now that Martell is in the starting line up, there is better three point shooting, does that mean that we could expect Andre in the starting lineup sooner? Or is it the exact opposite? Martell was going to be coming off the bench and providing that extra offense off the bench. Now there is less firepower coming off the bench, Could this be another reason Andre should continue to come off the bench? Thats pretty open for interpretation, and if I was not as lazy as I am, I would write up some sort of analysis including my opinion for a great discussion as a fanpost or fanshot… but this comment will have to do.
Batum, I really hope to see you return to full health by the end of the season. I appreciate you unselfishness, because I assume that you did this on purpose to help with the minute crunch… Maybe other players.. Cough (brandon) cough, will pick up on this unselfish behavior.
"The difference between a democracy and a dictatorship is that in a democracy you vote first and take orders later; in a dictatorship you don't have to waste your time voting"
"I don't like jail, they got the wrong kind of bars in there"
Charles Bukowski
Now there is less firepower coming off the bench, Could this be another reason Andre should continue to come off the bench?
First of all, there is plenty of firepower coming off the bench. Only Joel is a "non-scorer’ and it sounds like he and Andre have a good thing going with the PnR, in practice. Second, the bench unit will rarely play without at least one starter also being on the floor at the same time, whether that be Roy, LMA or another potential scorer.
I think Nate is going to be reluctant to remove Blake as the starting PG, regardless. But having Webster at the SF might make it a little more possible for the switch than if Batum were in there, because of the need for a 3 pt threat at the beginning of each half. I liked the RAWMO lineup the best, but I’m not holding my breath at the prospect of seeing Andre feeding Greg the ball in the post at the beginning of each half, any time soon.
Finally, your point regarding the Outlaw trade talk is understandable. But keep in mind, most of us have heard from independent sources that Travis has been “on the market” for at least a year, and it’s not hard to imagine what would have happened to #25 if Hedo had agreed to come to Portland, or if Utah had decided not to match Millsap’s offer. As it turned out, it’s a good thing (now) that KP “held off” on trading Travis. But theres a chance that Nic could be “back” in the starting lineup by mid-February, and the “SF logjam” could once again be a reality. KP will do what he has to do when the time comes, but don’t get too upset at Bedgers for speculating about Outlaw’s future—the Blazer’s front office has telegraphed their intentions pretty clearly about their desire to deal him, to GMs/media across the country.
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
It is not that people are speculating (whether there is reason or not)
It is that people want him to play well so that he can be traded for more…
"The difference between a democracy and a dictatorship is that in a democracy you vote first and take orders later; in a dictatorship you don't have to waste your time voting"
"I don't like jail, they got the wrong kind of bars in there"
Charles Bukowski
I want Outlaw to have a good year
because that means more wins and a better team NOW, not because it could POSSIBLY mean that we could get somebody out of him in the future…
"The difference between a democracy and a dictatorship is that in a democracy you vote first and take orders later; in a dictatorship you don't have to waste your time voting"
"I don't like jail, they got the wrong kind of bars in there"
Charles Bukowski
I gotcha
but put yourself in KP’s shoes. Yes, we want all the players to do well, and for the team to win. But, if the front office has already decided not to offer Travis an extension next July (and I don’t know that they have, but again I point at the circumstantial evidence and “chatter” about his availability to suggest they most likely won’t) then it makes sense for KP to maximize this “asset” (and I know, you probably hate that word, too) and get the best deal that he can for Outlaw, in mid-February
Now, I realize that some Blazer fans will sometimes take this kind of speculation “personally” but really, it’s just good business. KP will do whatever it takes to “improve” the roster, and my hope is that he always keeps his eye on the ball, which is the playoffs. I have no fears that he will completely mortgage the future just to win one title, but that should always the goal—to win at least one championship!
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I agree
This is a business and (I do hate the asset aspect lol) it is important to think of the future, but the first priority is now… I personally (and I am sure that I am very close to being alone on this opinion) hope that Outlaw DOES get a deal with portland next year, however unlikely that may be. Again I dont like the business aspect of this game, but just out of curiosity, could portland sign Outlaw to a respectable contract next season, and then be used to get osmebody of higher value because of a higher contract? I dont want this to happen either because I like Outlaw and I think he brings a lot of positives to this team (along with the already overstated negatives).
"The difference between a democracy and a dictatorship is that in a democracy you vote first and take orders later; in a dictatorship you don't have to waste your time voting"
"I don't like jail, they got the wrong kind of bars in there"
Charles Bukowski
that's a possibility
but the moment Travis signs his next extension (I’m on record that he will command at least 6 mil/year) his trade value will drop. Unless he steps his game up, and becomes a more all-around player and borderline all-star forward
that’s what he said he wants to be, but his “focus” always seems to be on the offensive end of the floor
From Portland’s perspective, the best time to deal him is this season, because of his expiring contract. (The injury status of Batum will affect this, of course.) But so will the offers that KP gets from other GMs, who will want Travis for that TOEC as much as his jumper.
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
The sky is not falling
Plenty of folks thought so last year when Marty was lost but it worked out. Turns out our GM had depth where many thought we had minutes problem.
But my candidate for most helped is Dante. He is going to become a 3 in the rotation before the end of the year. He has so many intangibles and if he is hitting the 3-point by Christmas his defense and BBIQ will get him minutes there. In any event he is another depth asset. Think Keliza only better. That 3-point shooting is a big if but Linas was not a 3-point shooter in college either. He has a good mid-range game as well. This from Draft Express:
With all of that said though, Cunningham is a tremendously active player who brings a lot of hustle to the court; this is pretty evident on the defensive side of the ball. He is constantly on the move looking to make things happen and has shown both solid anticipation and great timing. Cunningham’s lateral quickness is good enough that he is able to step away from the basket and cover perimeter players without being a liability to his team, and in fact forces a fair number of turnovers with his on the ball pressure.
"Either way we have two phenomenal units. I'm excited to play with either one." - Martell Webster
"That 3-point shooting is a big if but Linas was not a 3-point shooter in college either."
Linas Kleiza @ Missouri in 2004-2005: 31-113 (27.4%) 3PT Shooting.
Dante Cunningham @ Villanova in 2008-2009: 0-2 (0%) 3PT Shooting.
After dismissing that off-base comparison, you’re nevertheless right about how Cunningham "has a good mid-range game" working off the pick-and-pop. That, however, makes him a pure 4 at this juncture, with playing the 3 — which is a weakside cornerman who launches a ton of three-pointers in Nate McMillan’s offense — currently out of the question
Dear Paul Allen:
Waive Patty Mills & sign Ime Udoka.
Sincerely,
AK1984
27.4% from the shorter college 3 point line
is not something that usually makes scouts think, “Oh, we should draft this guy as a 3 point threat.” His comment was sound.
I can tell you how to make an Excel spreadsheet that proves Portland wins 62 games this year.
There's still a big gap in Linas Kleiza and Dante Cunningham's downtown shooting at college.
Dear Paul Allen:
Waive Patty Mills & sign Ime Udoka.
Sincerely,
AK1984
I'll refer to Outlaw as a "good offensive player"
as soon as he learns how to pass.
I love him. Really, I do. But his offensive game, at best, is streaky jump shooting and reliable 3 point shooting. Passing is important in basketball, and that’s where Nic’s natural feel for the game will enable him to develop into a well rounded player.
He’ll be back though. Soon enough. For the part of the season that REALLY matters.
"We're going to play the right way. It ain't about you. It's about us. We can be successful if we play together. And that's what it's about. In this league, playing hard, playing together. Your numbers shouldn't matter." - Coach McMillan
by Hipster Olympic Team! on Oct 27, 2009 11:00 AM PDT reply actions
Yeah, I wouldn't say "good offensive player"
I would say “very dangerous scorer, but inconsistent.”
I can tell you how to make an Excel spreadsheet that proves Portland wins 62 games this year.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
NBA Playoffs Content Module
Related FanPosts on Blazer's Edge
Related FanShots on Blazer's Edge
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
FanShots
Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.
Recommended FanShots
Recent FanShots
In Association With
Ball Don't Lie - NBA - Yahoo! Sport
- Behind the Box Score, where the Boston Celtics are moving on to the conference finals
- NBA Playoffs Fan Fiction: San Antonio Spurs vs. Oklahoma City Thunder
- The Indiana Pacers? Gone till November
- Shaquille O’Neal is in a Chinese beer commercial, too (VIDEO)
- ‘Deep Thoughts’ and Cheap Thoughts: San Antonio Spurs vs. Oklahoma City Thunder
