Buyers/Sellers in 2010, Trading Partners

by Visionary2 on Oct 25, 2009 9:12 PM PDT

OK, I know I'm jumping the gun, and at the same time this woudl have been better timed a month ago, but I'm wondering if those in the know could identify the buyers in the free agent market of 2010.

I also could use some illumination on cap impacts of guys with expiring contracts, such as Travis and Blake. If these expiring contracts are valuable to other teams, aren't they also valuable to us?

In short, I'm simply asking: are the Blazers buyers, sellers, big buyers in the big free agent market of 2010 or not, and who might our trading partners be?

If we want to sign somebody, can we simply not trade Blake, not re-sign him, and have the $4m or so as some kind of 'slot' into which we can sign a free agent? Or does some other trading partner get more of a benefit from his expiring than we would? (Never understood why we just didn't use RLEC last year ourselves, e.g.)

Thanks all for any enlightenment you can provide,...

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Never understood why we just didn’t use RLEC last year ourselves

We did. We let him expire and got cap space. That’s how we signed Miller.

If we want to sign somebody, can we simply not trade Blake, not re-sign him, and have the $4m or so as some kind of ‘slot’ into which we can sign a free agent?

No. We will be over the cap even without him at the end of the year, so we can’t sign anyone except with exceptions.

Disclaimer: everything I know about basketball I learned on Blazersedge.

by pualo on Oct 25, 2009 9:22 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs

this brings up a procedural question that I've been meaning to ask

the Blazers can go “over the cap” to sign their “own” players to extensions, right? So, up until July 1st, KP can extend Blake and/or Outlaw and go over the cap, but next July 1 they are “on the market” and Portand would have use their MLE to resign them, is this correct?

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Oct 25, 2009 9:30 PM PDT up reply actions

With some exceptoins

But they’ve both been in the league long enough the answer is yes.

"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely

by skywaker9 on Oct 25, 2009 9:42 PM PDT up reply actions

The Portland Trail Blazers will have Bird rights on both Steve Blake and Travis Outlaw; thus, the ...

team can go over the salary cap to re-sign them if that’s its objective. Each of them will be unrestricted free agents, though, so they’ll control their own destiny.

Stupid people have stupid ideas.

by AK1984 on Oct 25, 2009 10:20 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs

You are correct, sir

by LaoTzu on Oct 26, 2009 2:46 AM PDT up reply actions

Why not resign them both for one year at $10 million then we can trade them for a $20 million superstar

by tominhawaii on Oct 26, 2009 7:46 AM PDT up reply actions

I know YOU were paying attention tom....

Becuase we won’t have Raef to throw in …. geeezzzz…

The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out, burns out farms, and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.

"New Man Law: If you don't show up for the draft you don't get to come later if you're picked. If you believe in yourself, show up and sit there. If nobody else believes in you, take it and cry like a man...in front of the cameras."

-Dave

by faith on Oct 26, 2009 8:03 AM PDT up reply actions

Here's why it probably wouldn't happen

Any player who is playing under a one year contract and will have either Bird Rights or Early Bird Rights at the end of the season cannot be traded without the player’s consent.

Also, such a trade would mean that Blake and Outlaw would lose Bird Rights once they were traded, meaning that the players would be very less likely to approve such a deal.

"It's Our Time":http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O99POVJfglY

by Storyteller on Oct 26, 2009 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions

Wait

wouldn’t they RELISH a $10 million (or more) contract that they would never get in any other circumstance? I mean if I was Blake I would gladly be a trading chip and choke down the sobs while cashing my 10 MILLION dollar check.

"Death is not final," Gita says. "If any man thinks that he slays, and if another thinks that he is slain, neither knows the truth. The Eternal in man cannot kill: the Eternal in man cannot die. The soul in man is neither born nor does it die. Weapons cannot cut it; fire cannot burn it; water cannot drown it.

The Bhagavad Gita

by Idog1976 on Oct 26, 2009 5:31 PM PDT up reply actions

Oh, they'd take the money

I’m saying they probably wouldn’t sign off on being traded.

"It's Our Time":http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O99POVJfglY

by Storyteller on Oct 26, 2009 7:59 PM PDT up reply actions

In case it wasn't clear from the other answers,

we can still use the MLE for another player even if we re-sign Blake and/or Outlaw and/or Joel. However, the MLE can only be used to acquire a free agent, not part of a trade, i.e. it isn’t like cap space.

But I raised a related question a month or so ago – can we use the MLE to sign our own draft pick, Freeland? I didn’t think so, but I thought it was a question worth asking of an expert. StoryTeller agreed to take that question to Tom Penn, but I’ve never heard an answer. The Freeland situation is that he makes a lot more money in Europe, and unlike Rudy, he probably won’t come over for the rookie salary scale pay of a #30 pick. However, since we drafted him more than 3 years ago, we can now offer him anything that we can fit within our salary cap. Unfortunately, we will be over the cap next year and until pigs fly, so that doesn’t do us any good unless we can use the MLE to offer him more than the rookie scale. I doubt we can use the MLE that way, but it’s such an unusual situation I think it’s worth asking the league for a ruling.

by BlazerFanSince1970 on Oct 25, 2009 11:24 PM PDT up reply actions

Yes we can, according to ESPN who had that situation analyzed re the Ricky Rubio situation in 2011 if he should remain in Spain for 3 more years

The CBA just talks about “room in excess of the rookie scale” to pay a first round pick more than that after 3 full seasons of not signing a deal, but apparently both cap space and “exception space” (not a CBA term) can be used. The contract would have to be guaranteed for 3 years and not just 2 then, and can start as high as the average player salary (i.e. the MLE amount).

And now there are at least 3-4 teams who have a significant interest that this rule gets interpreted that way and stays that way. Minnesota with Rubio (their owner is currently the head of the ownership association or at least some critical committee for the negotiations with the players), Orlando with Vasquez, San Antonio with Splitter (2010), and the Blazers with Freeland/Claver/(Koponen).

by Norsktroll on Oct 26, 2009 3:31 AM PDT up reply actions

Thanks Norsktroll and Storyteller.

I hope you are right. That’s why I asked the question in the first place, but I didn’t think the language in the CBA ""room in excess of the rookie scale" would allow the MLE to be used because the MLE is an exception to the salary cap, not “room under the salary cap”.

But yeah, maybe we get a favorable ruling because there’s additional cases in play. Stern is never going to do anything good for us alone. He has the memory of an elephant and he will never forget our Dudley deal.

by BlazerFanSince1970 on Oct 27, 2009 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions

Haven't heard from Tom Penn

However my ‘research’ has led me to believe that, yes, Portland can use its MLE to sign Freeland to a contract next summer (or later) to sign him to a contract larger than his rookie scale amount.

"It's Our Time":http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O99POVJfglY

by Storyteller on Oct 26, 2009 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions

Thanks Norsktroll and Storyteller.

I hope you guys are right. That’s why I asked the question in the first place, but I didn’t think the language in the CBA ""room in excess of the rookie scale" would allow the MLE to be used because the MLE is an exception to the salary cap, not “room under the salary cap”.

by BlazerFanSince1970 on Oct 27, 2009 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions

two4larue -

As others have mentioned, Portland would not have to use their MLE to re-sign Blake and Outlaw. The exception they would use to re-sign them would be Bird rights.

Also, Blake and Outlaw CANNOT be extended between now and July 1st. Only players who are playing under contracts that were originally for at least four years (or are playing under an extension of such a contract) can be given an extension. Both Blake and Outlaw will be Unrestricted Free Agents in July.

"It's Our Time":http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O99POVJfglY

by Storyteller on Oct 26, 2009 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions

good to know, thanks

this explains why there hasn’t been any talk about extensions for either player before the 31st, unlike LMA this year and Webster, last fall

So I guess I’ll just have to suffer through another 3-1/2 months of hearing “let’s trade Blake’s expiring contract” even though I’m pretty sure it’s about the last thing on KP’s mind. (But I guess it serves me right, since I’ve been proposing that Outlaw be dealt to acquire a banger, for-ever…)

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Oct 26, 2009 9:32 PM PDT up reply actions

Yes, you are.

-1 for horrible timing.

"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal

by timbo on Oct 25, 2009 11:25 PM PDT reply actions

per:

OK, I know I’m jumping the gun

"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal

by timbo on Oct 25, 2009 11:25 PM PDT up reply actions

We resign our own players, putting us way over the cap, and use them in sign and trade deals with other teams.

That is why we are stocking up on talent. We will never be a serious player the free agent market again. Oden and Fernandez will need signing. Oden should be a franchise center. And Rudy was in the most effective lineup in points differential in the NBA last season, and he broke NBA rookie 3-pt records without knowing English.

If Martell improves and Travis remains clutch, and Bayless shows promise again, then we will have more trade bait than we can shake a stick at.

Kp was looking for that lop-sided trade. And he still is. It might not come this season, and that’s okay. If it waits for some more re-signings, then we get better value in matching salaries. Anyway I think we could use another year to sort out all these improving players.

by LaoTzu on Oct 26, 2009 2:53 AM PDT reply actions