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Around SBN: Guest Blogger: Juco All-American Answers Five Questions

How Nate and Brandon both flailed with Andre Miller

 

Success, and the challenges that come with it, are what separates the boys from the men.

 

--------

 

You have to give some respect to a player of Andre Miller's caliber and experience. He's earned it. It's not like some rookie, who you tell to "go out and earn a role on this team." So, if you don't see a role for him on the first unit, you have to be clear from the start: "ANDRE, WE'D LIKE TO HAVE YOU IN PORTLAND, BUT YOU WILL NOT BE STARTING."

 

But maybe you're not completely sure about this, maybe you have a difficult time delivering bad news, maybe you are confrontation adverse, maybe you're the head coach of the Portland Trailblazers.

 

So you hedge when having this discussion with Andre Miller. You really want a veteran presence like Miller on your team, so you don't come right out and say what you need to say. And then, a few days later, You sense that you were not as clear as you needed to be to show Miller the respect he's earned. So what do you do? YOU GO BEHIND MILLER'S BACK TO THE PRESS AND ANNOUNCE THAT BLAKE IS YOUR STARTER!

 

You just flailed.

 

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It's summer time and you are sitting pretty. Just signed to a max contract, an All Star season and a trip to the playoffs, you're feeling like you can handle anything life throws at you. So maybe your danger radar is not on alert when you get the call from your GM telling you that that they're thinking about signing a playmaking point guard. Sure, you're the guy who likes to have the ball in his hands, but you really kind of believe all the talk about "team first," so you figure that come the season, you'll figure out how to make it work. SO YOU DON'T EXPRESS YOUR RESERVATIONS ABOUT THE SIGNING.

 

Now it's the preseason, and, sure enough, Andre Miller is on the team, and he is bringing his game. Attacking, driving, playmaking. It makes you a little uneasy because that is your role on the team. So what do you do? Do you dig in? Play even harder, demanding the ball, playing your game and forcing the new PG to become primarily an assist maker and less of a scorer? 

 

No, you get a little mopey, give 80% effort when Miller is on the court, and sandbag his attempts to unify the first unit.

 

You just flailed.

 

-----------

 

Well now the season is about to start. And Andre Miller, already disrespected, is going to be on the bench. Who knows, maybe he can deal with it. Maybe he takes the high road and does not demand a trade. Nate, Brandon and yes, KP, have opened the door to locker room issues through their fumbling. But what can be done now?

 

Not much. Barring a trade. For Brandon and Nate, learn from the mistake. Make a good faith effort to integrate Miller and Roy. Address the communication/non-confrontational issues. 

 

Start that by shutting the heck up.

 

No more, "MY DOOR IS ALWAYS OPEN," when Nate goes backdoor to use the media to cover his own butt. No more, "I JUST HOPE THE SECOND UNIT BUYS IN TO THE TEAM," after Brandon sandbags Andre's efforts to integrate in to the first unit. 

 

Please?

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I would agree that communication is an issue.

But it also takes two sides to communicate. What we hear is generally second-hand at best. It’s not like we have Andre Miller on Marbury-style Ustream. I’m sure that they’ve talked. I’m sure that they probably don’t exactly see eye to eye on these things. That isn’t just one side’s fault, generally. Now, Miller’s been taking it in the media pretty hard, and your fanpost takes the opposite tact. But I think you are reacting to people falling off of the fence on one side so hard that you fall off of the fence on the other side on this issue. There’s enough blame to go around that everyone can share. Enough that conspiracy theories aren’t particularly necessary. But hey, a good conspiracy can be a fun diversion sometimes too.

μὴ φοβοῦ, μόνον πίστευε.

Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?

by T Darkstar on Oct 23, 2009 3:32 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Speculation

There has been way too much speculation about Andre’s attitude, his role and the communication between him and Nate and Brandon.

The only two facts we know is that
1. Miller came in to the team expecting to be the starter and that for now he’s the back up to Blake.
2. The team has looked out of sync at times during the preseason.

We don’t know if Miller is upset by it. We don’t know if he’s angry at Nate or Brandon. We don’t know if he and Nate sat down for a long talk and worked all this out with Miller before Nate announced who was starting. We don’t know what the team chemistry looks like in practice. We don’t know what the minute distribution will be. We don’t know if Nate is going to change his starters as the season progresses like he did last season.

So until there’s an actual incident where Miller acts upset about the situation, we don’t have any concrete basis to say this is a problem.

by boppitywop on Oct 23, 2009 3:39 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Post is totally speculative

I grant that. But it sure looks like they fumbled. My sniffer tells me there are management issues here that will play out as the Blazers try to get to the next level.

by Blazin' on Oct 23, 2009 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Jumping to conclusions

I agree with boppitywop. The Blazers have not played their first game yet. Time will tell what roles Blake and Miller will play. Maybe Steve starts but Andre finishes and get more minutes. Or maybe the roles evolve differently than we imagine right now. For example, maybe Jeryd Bayless becomes a monster and takes big minutes from both Blake and Miller. Or maybe…….

NateMac has said all along that each player’s role will evolve according to what is best for the team overall. That is an ongoing process. Relax and let’s see what happens.

by illahe77 on Oct 23, 2009 3:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think you're right.

The way I’ve been reading the tea leaves on this one is that Miller will come off the bench, but only because Roy needs to get himself going early in the games and in order to do that he has to have the ball in his hands, so Blake works for that purpose with the starting unit – for now.

I expect Miller to be on the court at the end of the game when Roy’s warmed up and Oden has established himself inside.

"She turned me into a newt!
A newt?
...I got better."

by Seijeff on Oct 24, 2009 7:28 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The thing it seems like everyone is missing is...

Miller is not the back up to Blake, he is the back up to Roy. There is a huge difference. He was brought in, not because Blake was a bad PG, but because the team needed another scorer who can create his own shot, for when Roy is not on the floor, or when the offense just isn’t working. If Nate would explain that to him, that he is backing up the fastest rising young all-star in the NBA, on a championship contender, he might not be insulted that he is behind Blake in the rotation. Then Rudy can get upset he is behind Blake as the back-up shooter, but Rudy is not a ball handler and Blake can’t guard SGs, so the Blake/Roy and Miller/Rudy combinations are optimal.

Miller is a guy who can take over a game when the rest of the team can’t get going. I would rather have found such a player in a big, but since we missed Milsap (not that he is a guy who takes over games), we ended up taking the best guy left, who happened to be a PG. The fit isn’t quite right, except for as the leader of our second unit, where he will have the freedom to set the style of play, without interfering with Roy, who sets the style of play for the first unit. Roy is the franchise player for the foreseeable future.

by wingzeta on Oct 24, 2009 1:22 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Miller

Is one of the best FLOOR GENERALS in the game. If all we needed was a shot creator we would hae traded RLEC for Carter. We need a heady distributor/pure point guard. Blake is good at getting us in our sets, Miller is good at creating offense. Not his shot. Offense. Please look at his career creds, not 8 preseason games w a new team

by momomoses7 on Oct 24, 2009 1:50 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Miller is a scorer

I’m not sure where all this pure point credibility comes from. Sure, he’s a creator, but many times, it’s for himself. He loves to drive, take contact and finish.

Witty Unpredictable Talent and Natural Game

by iDea on Oct 24, 2009 9:31 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

he is also a fantastic passer

and frankly is a far better player than Blake

by GreatOden'sRaven on Oct 24, 2009 11:31 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He scores

But I wouldn’t call him a ‘scoring PG’, per se… he is extremely unselfish and a dye-no-mite passer.

The pure point credibility comes from his amazing passing, floor generalship, and unselfishness.

He’s as PG as you can get. Certainly more than Blake, who is more just a steady off guard. Now that might fit next to Roy better, time will tell, but I think Miller and Roy are too talented for it not to work. Not when they are both so unselfish.

Dre has played with a Roy-esque ballhandler/playmaker in Andre Iguodala over in Philly, but Roy hasn’t played with a PG who actually should be making some plays. It will likely take Roy more time than Miller to adjust, but it’s likely just a matter of time.

Miller loves to get to the foul line, but he’s always been a passer first. Pre-season is just pre-season.

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Oct 25, 2009 1:14 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Yes, Yes and No. . . well maybe.

       He’s a excellent passer. He’s a PG. He’s unselfish to a degree, but
as you and everyone else who’s watched him over the years knows, he
needs the ball in his hands to be effective. How would he fit alongside
Blobe or Wade, or for that matter Jordan ? We have a poor man’s (for
lack of another term) Jordan/Blobe/Wade in the mix, who NEEDS the ball in
his hands to create the mismatch and his shot. Can BRoy spot up ? Yes
Is he a premier sharpshooter ? Probably not. Does Miller posess one of the
best PG post games? Yes. The reason his scoring average has been good,
is his ability to use his herky jerky moves (sans quickness) and superior
post game to create enough of a mismatch to get good scoring opportunities.
He is such a good passer that teams have hesitated to double him with the
ball or on the post, thinking the defender could slow him down. I’m very
familiar with his game, as mine was always very similiar (except my superior
3 pt shooting – NBA to city league/rec understood). I learned the post 1st,
honed ballhandling skills/outside shooting next, then relied on inside
post position or one-on-one/p & r breaksdowns drawing the double to set up open teammates or get my shot.
     My reasoning for the comparison is the admiration I have for Miller’s game.
That said, he still needs to have the ball in his hands to bully his way to the bucket or on the post and thereupon create those opportunites for his open/
cutting teammates. All the talk of BRoy moping or being selfish are troubling to
me, as I’m convinced that Roy is a great player/leader who is unselfish in his
own game, but the key to our continued and long term success. Andre Miller
will be here for two, maybe three years !

It's GO time !

by walkoff41 on Oct 25, 2009 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

His career has so far consisted of playing on teams where he has been

the number two scoring option. The Blazers are a different type of team. The “fit” will take some shoehorning.

by wingzeta on Oct 24, 2009 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Excellent phrasing. This is the way to conceive of things, as they now stand.
Miller is not the back up to Blake, he is the back up to Roy.

I think it’s fairly likely that within a month or two they will learn to mesh on the floor, which will expand options. But going into the season, it seems almost an either-or between them.

"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal

by timbo on Oct 25, 2009 11:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

YOU GO BEHIND MILLER'S BACK TO THE PRESS AND ANNOUNCE THAT BLAKE IS YOUR STARTER!

really? please calm down. i’m sure nate and andre haven’t talked a single time this preseason…

JAH

by abetterbomb on Oct 23, 2009 3:58 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I am calm

just having a little fun with the caps lock button!

by Blazin' on Oct 23, 2009 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

There's a lot of problems with the whole situation.

Or maybe not. If Andre plays a ton of minutes then everything will be fine. If he hovers around 25 per game then this experiment was a disaster.

If the Blazers wanted a backup PG then they could have signed Ramon Sessions for way less money. If they wanted a starting PG then they should have traded for Hinrich. If they wanted a small shooting guard who can nail three pointers and doesn’t need the ball and won’t get in Brandon’s way then they would have been much better off doing a sign and trade for someone like Ben Gordon.

I think the Blazers thought it would all work out and then got freaked when Roy looked awkward. This might be the best way to integrate Miller into the starting lineup, if not then KP just made a really poor roster decision. Either way you look at it, everything’s going to be fine. Or maybe not.

by Nick Van Excellent on Oct 23, 2009 4:02 PM PDT reply actions   3 recs

Andre has never won a playoff series.

Blake has.

dinasour type of guys choir boys

by mittsabishy on Oct 23, 2009 4:05 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

he rode the bench for the wizards once.

don’t make me show my work.

dinasour type of guys choir boys

by mittsabishy on Oct 23, 2009 4:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He only played 4 games.

Blake had a PER of negative .9, didn’t make a single three, and had a 25% true shooting percentage.

by Nick Van Excellent on Oct 23, 2009 6:49 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Andre

took the Eastern Conference champs to 7 games last time he was playin for keeps as the 2nd best player on his team

by momomoses7 on Oct 24, 2009 1:51 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh pish posh applesauce

Even if Blake WAS on a playoff team that won a series (was he even? I don’t remember any team he was on doing that), it would be quite the stretch to say it was “because” of him.

It’s not like Dre’s past teams didn’t go further “because” of him. He just wasn’t on great teams, and he isn’t a transcendent talent who immediately makes a team great. He makes a team better, but he isn’t Lebron.

Morty

by Mortimer on Oct 25, 2009 1:16 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

What Nate said to the press

is not speculation. What Brandon has said to the press is not speculation. Andre wanting to start is not speculation. There is a degree of speculation involved in trying to figure out exactly what Andre was told in order to induce him to sign. Andre’s account of the conversation differs from Nate’s. A lot of it comes down to who you believe. Or maybe you believe there was an honest miscommunication. As for Brandon going to the press with his views and having a series of low energy games, I am not too pleased with him.

There is more to an athlete than how fast they can run, they also better be able to see what they are doing and know why they are doing it.

by KINGofMACct on Oct 23, 2009 4:19 PM PDT reply actions   2 recs

So, is there truth in this post? Yes.

It does seem a hurdle. And no, I don’t want to hear anymore anti-Miller statements coming from the team. Do you want the guy on your team, or not.

I hope that Blake starting is a temporary thing “until Miller learns the offense.”

But Miller is a seasoned PG. He won’t need much time to learn Nate’s system. But if that “system” is for Andre to bring the ball up, get it to Roy and wait patiently in the corner, why play him at all? Blake is and will be a better three point shooter. Are you playing Andre exclusively for his superior rebounding and his ability to lead the break if it happens to be there?

The questions I have are how will Nate learn to use Miller as a starting PG without seeing him play meaningful minutes with the starters? And how will the starters learn to love playing with Andre unless you let him play to his strengths?

by LaoTzu on Oct 23, 2009 6:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Any "more" anti-Miller statements coming from the team?

Please provide ONE anti Miller statement coming from the team.

by Ilikeemall on Oct 23, 2009 6:08 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

So we know Blake is worse... and we signed you to start...

But now that youre under contract eff you. Doesn’t matter what they SAID, this is what they DID.

by momomoses7 on Oct 24, 2009 1:54 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

That's what they did in your mind...

So you know for a fact they signed him to start? This is just more selective use of partial quotes and mis-information. Then throw in the fact that apparently you believe the Blazers intentionally tricked Andre into signing as a starter and then told him to pound sand, you’re under contract now and can’t do anything about it.

I’m sorry that just doesn’t ring true. I know it’s just my opinion but I have a real hard time believing the Blazers would do that. What would their motive be? What would they gain (other than an over paid ticked off back up PG)? Have they shown any sign of dealing with players in that way in the past?

Sorry I just don’t buy it.

by Ilikeemall on Oct 24, 2009 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

I don’t think Miller was ever really given a chance to win the job. It seems like Nate/Roy had their minds made up, and unless Miller pulled a GO and completely asserted himself as the guy at the posiution, Blake was the choice all the way.

I hate Comcast.
Card carrying member of Team Bayless
I believe in Greg Oden

by blazeraddict on Oct 23, 2009 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

Is there something wrong with wanting him to...

…“completely assert himself as the guy”?

by Ilikeemall on Oct 23, 2009 5:08 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

No

but my point is Miller wasn’t given an equal chance to win the job. I think he outplayed Blake, even though neither played well. That said, given Miller’s track record and better (again, albeit not good) performance this pre-season, I think he beat Blake out. The problem I have with how this went down (or more accurately, my perception of how it went down) is that Miller needed to destroy Blake to win the job. He didn’t do that, but at the same time I think he should be the starter based on performance.

I hate Comcast.
Card carrying member of Team Bayless
I believe in Greg Oden

by blazeraddict on Oct 23, 2009 7:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Roy was saying NO to Miller starting BEFORE camp had even begun!

There is more to an athlete than how fast they can run, they also better be able to see what they are doing and know why they are doing it.

by KINGofMACct on Oct 23, 2009 7:52 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I wouldn't go that far

However, I do think Brandon/Nate were happy with the Roy/Blake dynamic, and that worked against Miller. Given that, all things being equal, or even slightly tilted toward Miller in terms of performance, and Blake was going to be the choice.

I don’t agree with the sandbagging talk. Brandon and Blake work well together, and I expect the comfort level will be higher than with a new point guard. However, what bugs me is how quickly it seems Nate and Brandon were willing to throw their hands up and go with what worked well as opposed to going through the growing pains for a chance at something great. However, we’ve only just begun, an a lot can happen

I hate Comcast.
Card carrying member of Team Bayless
I believe in Greg Oden

by blazeraddict on Oct 23, 2009 8:13 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

key distinction

are they happy with the Roy/Blake dynamic or uncomfortable challenging themselves to a change that may disrupt things in the short term, but ultimately will make them better?

For me, the basis of this whole complaint is the belief that our offense, as it was composed last year, was too one dimensional.

The point of trying to get Hedo, and then Miller, in my eyes, was to diversify our first unit attack for the postseason, when we will face the stiffest tactical defenses, when we will be playing 7 or 8 players.

Based on how things seem to have gone in the preseason, it seems Blazers leadership are not following a plan, rather they are protecting turf and resisting change.

Understandable, but that’s what you need a head coach for. To articulate the plan and communicate that to the parties involved. My sniffer tells me that Nate needs some work on this.

by Blazin' on Oct 24, 2009 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

What difference does it make ???

      Blake starts and helps get the team in a comfort zone by
bringing the ball up, setting the offense and the spotting up for the
ouside jumper. If he plays the first 7 to 8 minutes of the 1st and 3rd
quarters, then Miller comes in to play with the 1st unit, then spearheads
the 2nd unit while Roy’s taking a breather.
     Blake will play 20 minutes and Miller 26-28 minutes. It will help Miller
stay fresh as a veteran, give our 2nd unit the ball handler/initiator/creator,
it so badly needs. In addition, injuries happen and it only makes sense
to have depth and guys who can step up their minutes when needed.
     PATIENCE BLAZERMANIACS !!
                   This is not a soap opera, it’s TEAM Basketball and our best
player (and leader) is Brandon Roy !

It's GO time !

by walkoff41 on Oct 25, 2009 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think the reason that happened though isn't due to some predetermined outcome.

I think it had to do with Nate not wanting to or not having the ability to play the new starting lineup enough for them to gel. We have to remember that due to little injuries in the last week of the pre-season that the lineups were a question from game to game and not all of that was Nate wanting to experiment with new looks and combinations.

"She turned me into a newt!
A newt?
...I got better."

by Seijeff on Oct 24, 2009 7:33 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

he did that

and still no position. I agree w/ Bill Simmons that Nate is behind his teams deelopment, and felt that way before his season preiew came out

by momomoses7 on Oct 24, 2009 1:55 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think the onus was on Miller to adjust

or at least keep his shots below a dozen a game. He doesn’t have Scottie Pippen’s pedigree when it comes to winning

"its tough to play with one eye, unless you're a pirate." Delonte West
"una canasta a Pau en la cara" Rudy

by Honka Playboy on Oct 23, 2009 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

A PG needs horses around him.

Lets see how far Philly goes without him.

by LaoTzu on Oct 23, 2009 6:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

selfish.

"There are a few teams you have to watch out for in the fourth quarter."
"Yeah, but Portland definitely is not one of them."

-New Orleans Hornets broadcasters at the end of the third quarter with the Hornets leading 74-59. Portland later ends up winning 97-89.

"They don't mind him shooting that shot at all. Rudy Fernandez is not that great of a 3pt shooter."

-New Orleans Hornets broadcasters right after a Rudy Fernandez missed 3pter. Rudy Fernandez finished the game with three 3pters on six attempts.

by Tofu Anonymous on Oct 23, 2009 4:24 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

It is fun just recycling comments on BE

I’m waiting for Oden’s first all-star appearance so I can type “Bust!”

by LaoTzu on Oct 23, 2009 6:09 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Quick's take
I knew it would be a different night when McMillan cut off our pregame interview early.

"I have to go,’’ the coach said. "I need to talk to a couple of players.’’

Quick doesn’t say, but it’s very possible Nate spoke with Miller as well as Przybilla, before the game

After the game, McMillan is as pleased as he has been all preseason.

"That first group established how we want to play,’’ McMillan said. "This (Phoenix) team the last time we played had 30 fast break points and tonight by our count, they had 10. So better job of executing the game plan and defending. And offensively we had good movement.’’

So did that mean Thursday’s starting lineup of Blake, Roy, Batum, Aldridge and Oden would open the season against Houston?

McMillan smiled and his eyes danced. It was the type of smile, the type of look, that after five years of covering him I understand means "yes", but he wasn’t going to go on record and say it.

"You write what you think,’’ he said, finally breaking into a laugh. "I’ll let you know in a couple of days.’’

After the game, Roy emphatically said that would be the lineup.

Nate still hadn’t directly told the media who was going to start at PG, after the game. Roy spilled the beans. That’s “bad on Brandon” if Nate hadn’t had his chat with Andre.

I never did get to speak with Miller after Thursday’s game, he left by the time I was done talking to Roy and Przybilla. But as I talked with Przybilla, the center nodded over toward Miller.
 
Przybilla has been a staunch supporter of Miller, and earlier in training camp he chastised me for printing that Miller failed his conditioning test. Przybilla felt Andre was being unfairly labeled. As we talked Thursday, Przybilla wanted to make sure everyone knew that he felt Miller would handle playing on the second unit just fine.

"Andre wants to win. He has the same mentality I do,’’ Przybilla said. "He understands what Coach wants and what the team needs from him to win. Seriously. I have never heard him say one negative thing, ever…"

Has anyone read/heard any comments from Miller, since last night?

When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Oct 23, 2009 4:43 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

oops, I missed a block quote

the section beginning with “I never did get to speak with Miller” and ending with “I have never heard him say a negative thing, ever” was from the O-live article. Here’s the link

http://blog.oregonlive.com/behindblazersbeat/2009/10/behind_the_blazers_locker_room_19.html

When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Oct 23, 2009 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Miller is going to have to come to grips with the hard fact

There is some point where an almost 34 year old veteran starter becomes a role player coming off the bench but lets not accuse him of doing an Iverson untill we actually see him act that way.

by southern oregon on Oct 23, 2009 4:50 PM PDT reply actions   3 recs

b/c he''s being outplayed by Blake?

AI was behind Rip Hamilton and will be behind OJ Mayo. Is Blake on the All Star ballot een?

by momomoses7 on Oct 24, 2009 1:57 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Do you mean to say that, "You can’t handle the truth!"

There is more to an athlete than how fast they can run, they also better be able to see what they are doing and know why they are doing it.

by KINGofMACct on Oct 23, 2009 6:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I love Degrassi style melodrama

Though that usually involves an awkward Canadian tween catching a venereal disease.

by wingzeta on Oct 24, 2009 1:35 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

+ 1,000,001

      The extra one was for effect ! Thank for the bold lettering !!!

      GO BLAZERS !! COINCAST REALLY SUCKS !!!!

It's GO time !

by walkoff41 on Oct 25, 2009 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

We need some Regular Season Games!

This post is a microcosm of the last couple weeks on Blazers Edge…

1. Some form of… We’ve been so mean to Andre (who is the 7th best PG in the NBA ya know)… He has earned the right to be however he wants to be and the Blazers, including Brandon, Nate and the rest shouldn’t be so mean to him and should hand him the keys to the team immediately.

2. Brandon Roy CANNOT and WILL NOT play with a real PG and he has done everything in his power to sabotage Andre Miller cuz he’s jealous… After all Miller is “bringin his game” shooting 5-18 and taking poor shots at poor times… doesn’t that prove he should be the starter?!?!

3. Make up a buncha bad things about Nate “going backdoor to the media” (something that just shouldn’t be said that way by the way IMO) and that Brandon has cleverly manipulated the media to achieve his own selfish goals.

(the only thing missing is that it is really all Blake and Outlaws fault and that they need to be traded immediately for a couple 2nd round choices)

For cryin outdoors fellas!!!… We have a team we can be proud of again! We’ve upgraded the main area everyone was worried about (PG)… We are better at the 3 with Webster back and Batum growing up. Oden has shown real improvement and we have the veteran presence so many wanted!!!..

It’s a GREAT time to be a Blazer fan… GO BLAZERS!!!

by Ilikeemall on Oct 23, 2009 5:02 PM PDT reply actions   4 recs

Easy people

I haven’t been following all the “junior high melodrama” of the last couple of weeks. But the fact is, the starting job was handed down last night. And Brandon finally showed up. And there has been a lot of the talk in the press. So it seems an appropriate time to evaluate the whole move.

And though Nate’s initial quote in the press did bother me, I didn’t make a post about it. No, this seems like the time to speak up on this.

As for the tone of the post, the whole “maybe you…maybe you…” second person thing is an attempt to stress that this is just a stab in the dark.

But, really, do you think it is so far from what happened? It’s just a young team. And a young management. I am no chicken little here. Just taking a shot at these guys for some apparent sloppiness.

by Blazin' on Oct 23, 2009 5:09 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

If you're the Blazers maybe...

…you want to be loyal to guys who have been there through the battle of turning the Jailblazers into a team that sparks this kind of intense interest.

Maybe you want your “far better than Steve Blake” PG that you’re paying $7mill a year for to come in and earn his spot and prove his veteran leadership by finding a way to fit in with Brandon.

If you’re Brandon… Maybe you “coast” through the pre-season because you want to be in top physical condition to start the REAL season then turn it on the last game of the pre-season just to make sure you’re ready.

There has been a lot of “just taking shots at these guys” lately. MOst of which has been by pure speculation. I for one have had enough of it.

by Ilikeemall on Oct 23, 2009 5:20 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

based on the preseason games, and media reports,

I think Andre did earn his spot. And do you spend that $7 million for a back-up? Surely that is something that is fair game to criticize.

And curious how Brandon’s coasting ends at the exact moment that Blake is announced as the starter. And suddenly he is all over the press talking about the morale of the second unit…

I am not condemning Nate and Brandon. Merely suggesting this has not been their brightest moment. And proposing a psychological explanation for that.

I guarantee you don’t see this sort of fumbling on a seasoned winner like the Spurs or the Lakers (Now that’s going to be real popular on here!).

by Blazin' on Oct 23, 2009 5:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The team played 2 quarters of good BB the entire preseason,Blake played both

Are you implying that Roy some how dogged it when he was on the court with Miller ?

by southern oregon on Oct 23, 2009 5:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

that's exactly what he's implying

and really having watched the games, it adds up.

i don’t think roy wanted miller in the starting rotation and that’s the main reason he isn’t in it.

by colinmarsh on Oct 23, 2009 5:51 PM PDT up reply actions   3 recs

Blake wasn't in the game during the last quarter against Denver

Miller, Roy and ODEN were

When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Oct 23, 2009 7:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

To me...
I am not condemning Nate and Brandon. Merely suggesting this has not been their brightest moment. And proposing a psychological explanation for that.

Ya…you really are. You are not only condemning them you are doing so without real evidence or a trial of any kind just previously admitted speculation.

You’re correct I don’t see this kind of fumbling with those teams…probably because I don’t look…or care.

How much money you make doesn’t have much to do with if you start or not for me. Effort and results are more important in my book. By results I don’t mean how many points or assist or turnovers I mean wins and losses. I don’t care why or how but last night the team we’ve all been waiting to see played and Blake was +26 and Miller was -9. I don’t really hold much stock in numbers like that but I’ll tell you what… if they would have been the other way around they would have been quoted a dozen times by now.

Maybe you haven’t been around to see the last couple weeks but in my opinion this post is about negativity and finger pointing…

(and by the way why is it flailing instead of failing?.. epic flail)

by Ilikeemall on Oct 23, 2009 5:55 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

failed is too strong.

flailed suggests a lapse that is not necessarily decisive. And I don’t think this will be. Nate and Brandon just pulled some amateur stuff that may have disrespected an esteemed veteran. But Andre will most likely deal with it like a pro.

Fundamentally, I am eager for the Blazers’ leadership to man up. Cause I believe they won’t win big until they do. And I keep seeing these little signs that they are not yet ready to do so.

But I know. I totally stirred the pot! :)

by Blazin' on Oct 23, 2009 6:03 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

So you want them to "man up"...

…and admit that all your specualtion is true?.. That there was somebody else on the grassy knoll?..

Maybe it won’t be admitted to… cuz it ain’t true… Is that not possible?

by Ilikeemall on Oct 23, 2009 6:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

no

when i say “man up,” I mean to take responsibility for their actions at least to themselves.

The fact that they are going to the media in this way suggests that they are uncomfortable with making hard decisions.

This ends up creating more drama around issues that if addressed honestly and directly at the start, are just part of doing the business of being an NBA team.

This is what i mean by “amateur stuff.” Even if players aren’t reading the newspapers, you can be sure that their agents are.

by Blazin' on Oct 23, 2009 6:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm missing something...

So you want them to admit, at least to themselves, that your speculation is true?.. Because after all you speculated it so it must be so…right?

Your post is admittedly based on pure speculation but now it’s roots grow from them “going to the media in this way”?

Dude?.. are you just shaking my tree? your post contains not one single quote or link to anything REAL.

I’m more concerned about the players or agents reading this kind of pure fantasy and taking it for reality…

by Ilikeemall on Oct 23, 2009 6:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's not saying he wants them to admit his speculation is true.

He’s saying that Brandon should face the fact that he was coasting for much of the preseason and because of that, Miller and Brandon didn’t have a good chance to actually see how they could work together.

Frankly I agree that Brandon needs to grow up a bit. He’s made comments which have basically painted a picture that he’s not comfortable trying to change and since he’s an All-Star, he doesn’t think he should have to. That’s not being a team player in my mind.

I do believe the reason Miller is coming off the bench is that his contributions and abilities haven’t been respected by Roy. If the chemistry on that starting unit wasn’t exactly stellar, Roy’s attitude about needing to have the ball in his hands in order to be affective and not wanting to try anything new certainly didn’t produce any positive sparks.

That being said, I do think he’ll come around, I just hope he doesn’t take years to do it like Kobe did.

"She turned me into a newt!
A newt?
...I got better."

by Seijeff on Oct 24, 2009 7:54 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Further Proof...
Frankly I agree that Brandon needs to grow up a bit. He’s made comments which have basically painted a picture that he’s not comfortable trying to change and since he’s an All-Star, he doesn’t think he should have to. That’s not being a team player in my mind.

Produce the statements where he said this. The best you’ll be able to do is find where somebody said that somebody said that posted it on O-Live and now it is true.

I do not doubt for one minute that Brandon “coasted” in the preseason. What I DO NOT believe is that his motivation was to sandbag or sabotage Andre. That is ridiculous and without one grain of truth in my book. I would again like to remind you that this was preseason. There will be 82 REAL games coming up. If Brandon coasts now and is stronger then… YEAH GOOD PLAN… because those games count.

Roy’s attitude about needing to have the ball in his hands in order to be affective and not wanting to try anything new certainly didn’t produce any positive sparks

More,“I heard somebody say” speculation that becomes truth.
Roy’s attitude that I’ve heard…from his mouth…is he wants to WIN. I’ve heard bloggers say that kind of stuff.. I’ve heard Clownzano say that kind of stuff… Not Brandon.

I respect your beliefs and appreciate that you are a true Blazer fan so we’re on the same side there but we believe differently. I believe that Andre isn’t starting because he didn’t come in and gel with the team. He admits to being a slow starter and that his legs aren’t under him yet. He also says his shot isn’t where he wants it to be. (you can read his comments through Ann’s links below). He’s not starting because he didn’t come in and blow Steve away and take his job…it’s tha simple. A guy who by accounts on here is twice as good as Blake and head and shoulders above him and a top 7 PG should have come in and given Nate no choice but to start him by exerting his will on the team… he didn’t do that. Blame Brandon if you want to but Andre isn’t (also in the links below).

Miler is a real pro and before very long we’ll be glad very glad we have him. He’ll bring an element to this team that we don’t have and we’ll be improved because of it.

Taking unwarranted and unproven “shots” at Brandon Roy on the other hand isn’t helping anyone or anything. But feel free to do so if you wish… Just don’t expect me to buy into it.

GO BLAZERS!!!

by Ilikeemall on Oct 24, 2009 9:30 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, and I've never made any quantitative statements in comparison between Miller and Blake.

I do think that Miller is a better passer, and has better court vision as well as the ability to get in the lane and finish at the rim more than Blake, but you’ll never see me write that I think he’s x times better than Blake.

"She turned me into a newt!
A newt?
...I got better."

by Seijeff on Oct 24, 2009 9:33 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

So in this interview...

He said,“I’m an All Star I shouldn’t have to change” and “that he didn’t want to try anything new”.

Sounds like your embellishing a little there. It’s funny how Brandon saying he’s more comfortable with the ball in his hands gets turned into… Brandon is selfish and doesn’t want to share HIS basketball with Andre so he’s going to “sandbag” to make sure his BFF Blake starts.

I don’t care how much politicing you do… The premise behind this post is ludicrous and has no basis in reality. Defend away but you’re standing in quick sand.

by Ilikeemall on Oct 24, 2009 9:41 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You can't read between the lines and understand its a paraphrase

but that the message was the same?

"She turned me into a newt!
A newt?
...I got better."

by Seijeff on Oct 24, 2009 9:57 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Reading between the lines of a quote...

…is called mis-quoting. That may have been the message you heard but was it what he said?

by Ilikeemall on Oct 24, 2009 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It was a quote from Quick's article "behind the locker room door"

Generally speaking I would like to think that I can understand what someone is saying when it is said in context about a situation.

Brandon’s leadership role isn’t questioned with me, nor is his ability on the court or his desire to win, but his ability to be flexible to help the team adapt to the best possible combination of players on the floor is. Because his quote in that article, if you take the words for their face value, is saying that Andre’s role in Brandon’s opinion isn’t to just come off the bench until he and Brandon get a chance to gel. The quote has nothing about possibility of the assignment being temporary in Roy’s view. I say this because he’s concerned enough about the bench players accepting their role off the bench to have a player’s only meeting to reinforce the importance of that which makes no sense to me whatsoever unless it is to try and get Miller on the same page.

Joel came off the bench last season and excelled in that role, Martell shouldn’t be surprised to come off the bench since he’s coming off an injury and all that entails, Outlaw is not going to be put out and Rudy knows he’s the backup to Roy.

There isn’t anyone on that second unit except Miller who would need to hear that message, and frankly, I don’t believe that it would be even a concern for Roy unless he thinks Andre’s role is going to be permanent.

If Roy thinks it is going to be permanent in spite of the fact that objectively, Miller is the better option to play with both Aldridge and Oden, then what other explanation is there to explain that sentiment unless it is that Roy doesn’t feel like Miller and he can play together affectively?

"She turned me into a newt!
A newt?
...I got better."

by Seijeff on Oct 24, 2009 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I read Quicks column yesterday...

This is a quote from it…

Even though he had struggled throughout the preseason, his shot terribly off and his pacing out of sync with the rest of the team, Roy wasn’t worried about his play. Consciously, he had been saving his body from the inevitable bumps and bruises that come with his trademark drives to the rim.

That quote does not do anything to support the post we’re both discussing.

The rest of the article can be dissected the same way. Roy can be criticized or praised for what he said… But there is nothing there that justifies the unfounded accusations in this post… IMO.

GO BLAZERS!!!

by Ilikeemall on Oct 24, 2009 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think you're misinterpreting what I am saying,

or purposely ignoring certain parts.

I’m not saying, nor have I said that Brandon has purposely or consciously undermined Miller. If that is how you read this post by Blazin’ then don’t automatically assume that I agree with that position simply because I disagree with you.

"She turned me into a newt!
A newt?
...I got better."

by Seijeff on Oct 24, 2009 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agree to Disagree...
Frankly I agree that Brandon needs to grow up a bit. He’s made comments which have basically painted a picture that he’s not comfortable trying to change and since he’s an All-Star, he doesn’t think he should have to. That’s not being a team player in my mind.

I do believe the reason Miller is coming off the bench is that his contributions and abilities haven’t been respected by Roy. If the chemistry on that starting unit wasn’t exactly stellar, Roy’s attitude about needing to have the ball in his hands in order to be affective and not wanting to try anything new certainly didn’t produce any positive sparks.

This is from your original post to me and I disagree with it.

I also disagree with the original post for this thread and therefore if you support that post chances are I’ll disagree.

Either way… I respect your opinion and believe you are an educated and passionate fan like myself. We both want this team to be the best it can be or we wouldn’t be here discussing this stuff…

For me it’s time to move on… What it all comes down to is…

GO BLAZERS!!!

by Ilikeemall on Oct 24, 2009 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed.

We are both passionate fans.

Have a good day!

"She turned me into a newt!
A newt?
...I got better."

by Seijeff on Oct 24, 2009 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

and you are also a passionate fan

MORE FANS FTW

Nax raid sucks. Why did I come to this? Off topic is also for the win.

by lurtsman on Oct 25, 2009 6:09 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

No. Repeating a quote inaccurately is misquoting.

And yes, I did get the quotes wrong however, I was paraphrasing.

What he said, in context with the situation as it is, means something. Roy’s attitude is that Miller is going to come off the bench and he needs to accept that. If Roy believed that he and Miller could play together in the starting lineup, that wouldn’t be necessary.

The reason I think this is a premature and unnecessary move for Brandon to make is because he and Miller haven’t been on the floor together in the starting lineup for a game that actually mattered.

The opinion that Brandon isn’t comfortable playing along side Miller because it will necessitate a change in how he approaches the game is just simple logic if Brandon’s attitude that Miller should accept his role of coming off the bench is accurate, which all indications are that it is.

What would motivate Brandon to decide that this was the best outcome besides believing that his changing how he plays to adjust to Miller being on the court with him in the starting lineup wasn’t a good idea?

All the evidence points to the fact that Miller plays well with Oden and can play well with Aldridge also. The only clash in that scenario is Roy and Miller unless both of them work on adjusting how they approach the game and each other.

"She turned me into a newt!
A newt?
...I got better."

by Seijeff on Oct 24, 2009 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also, aren't you embelishing just a tad?
It’s funny how Brandon saying he’s more comfortable with the ball in his hands gets turned into… Brandon is selfish and doesn’t want to share HIS basketball with Andre so he’s going to "sandbag" to make sure his BFF Blake starts.

I never said that he was being selfish and doesn’t want to share the ball.

I’m saying that he’s making statements which imply he’s not comfortable and hasn’t figured out how to play without the ball and still be affective, but also that he doesn’t see the need to do so.

Is that because he’s totally selfish and just doesn’t want to play nice with Andre? No. Please don’t put words in my mouth.

"She turned me into a newt!
A newt?
...I got better."

by Seijeff on Oct 24, 2009 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Did you read the post you are defending?
Now it’s the preseason, and, sure enough, Andre Miller is on the team, and he is bringing his game. Attacking, driving, playmaking. It makes you a little uneasy because that is your role on the team. So what do you do? Do you dig in? Play even harder, demanding the ball, playing your game and forcing the new PG to become primarily an assist maker and less of a scorer? No, you get a little mopey, give 80% effort when Miller is on the court, and sandbag his attempts to unify the first unit.

I may be wrong but this is what you are agreeing with. Sounds like how somebody who was selfish and just doesn’t want to play nice with Andre would act to me.

This post fails because it speculates with absolutely no basis in reality.

by Ilikeemall on Oct 24, 2009 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Roy has also said that he was consciously not pushing things in the preseason.

Apparently, according to Roy himself, he didn’t actually play aggressively until the last game of the preseason.

How does that fit if he was actually trying to make the chemistry with Miller work and give an accurate assessment about how they could work together if he wasn’t giving it his best when he and Miller were on the floor together the first few games?

Like I’ve said earlier, that doesn’t necessarily mean that it was a conscious effort to undermine Miller in his bid for the starting PG position, however Roy’s apparent position now about Miller needing to accept his position coming off the bench isn’t warranted and I really think it is entirely premature.

"She turned me into a newt!
A newt?
...I got better."

by Seijeff on Oct 24, 2009 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

exactly.

And Kobe analogy is totally relevant. Lakers are a model for building a team around an All-Star 2 guard. Maybe there are no short cuts. We just have to watch patiently as Nate and Brandon figure it out.

by Blazin' on Oct 24, 2009 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The cost analysis is completely irrelevant to where the person plays

You pay the price tag for a specific player, to fit a role. If that role is at starter, so be it. In this case, that role was simply to add Andre Miller to the mix, and that was the cost of the transaction. Whether or not he starts is immaterial. It’s putting the cart before the horse to assume that the highest paid players are the de facto starters.

by zaruga on Oct 23, 2009 8:26 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

This is correct

Millsap was offered far more than Andre received and knew he would not be a starter now or likely ever. You pay what is fair and use the player how the team is helped most to win.

"Either way we have two phenomenal units. I'm excited to play with either one." - Martell Webster

by lee3022 on Oct 24, 2009 1:13 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oden

Make sure to run plays for Oden. Get the ball to him. Roy too.

by LewisClark on Oct 24, 2009 2:27 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oden is the difference maker for this team and must start

And Miller is the best player the Blazers have at feeding the post.

1 + 1 = ?

by LaoTzu on Oct 25, 2009 6:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

he may be 34

 but he has proven to me he is twice the point guard steve is.he deserves the 1st team the same as oden does. this will definatly bring down odens chances at getting the ball inside via pick and rolls to the basket, and allyoops.

by 2phattoplay on Oct 23, 2009 5:10 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Have you watched him play for us?..

…as I’ve said many times I really don’t care about his past stats and performance. It’s what he can do for the Blazers I care about.

If you mean to question my Basketball knowledge through sarcasm please leave your comments to someone else. Nobody here is better than anyone else. If you really need to make comments like that try O-Live … They love that kinda stuff.

by Ilikeemall on Oct 25, 2009 7:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He has proven so far he is great passer,and driver

He has taken way too many shots and proved he is a lousy shot and a poor defender=not Blake times 2

by southern oregon on Oct 23, 2009 5:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

When you play alongside Pryzbilla, and a bunch of guys who are missing, why pass them the ball?

Miller is a PG. He does things PGs do. He runs the pick and roll. He also drives and dishes to create openings and mismatches. He feeds the post. (Playing with Andre will develop Greg’s game by leaps and bounds.) Miller is great on the break and finding the guy going to the rim. He makes everybody around him, who can play off the ball, better.

These are all areas where Miller is head and shoulders above Blake. Add to this his rebounding and you have a superior specimen of an NBA PG.

Blake knows how to play with Roy. Blake is a way better 3-point shooter. Blake is also a solid possession quarterback with a very high Assist to Turnover ratio. But he is not better than Miller.

When Blake was traded, I thought it was a mistake. When we got him back, I cheered. I want him on our team. I thought we could get a better PG, and hoped he and the team would let Blake settle into an important role off the bench. That’s what I still hope.

by LaoTzu on Oct 23, 2009 6:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

A hope that could still be easily fulfilled.

Remember Jarrett Jack CLEARLY won the starting role from Blake in the preseason not so long ago, and four games later, Blake won it back. Our team got better as a result, which is far more important than who is playing where and how much they’re paid (as some have asserted).

by zaruga on Oct 23, 2009 8:29 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Is that a quote from Bayless during summer league?

You pass to them to prove to your team and coaches that you will provide the things you were brought in to do… In preseason as in summer league there are more important things then winning.

This post isn’t about Millers ability it’s about accusing Brandon and Nate of things I don’t believe they did or would do… At least that’s how I read it.

by Ilikeemall on Oct 23, 2009 10:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I want to second that,

I don’t think Roy or Nate did anything wrong. There may have been a misunderstanding between Nate and Miller, but I don’t think Nate or KP or anyone tried to trick Miller into signing. And I certainly don’t think Roy tried to sabotage Miller on the court. Did LMA try to sabotage him too?

by wingzeta on Oct 24, 2009 1:56 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Both point guards are going to play, it doesn't really matter who the starter is.

…but it does matter how the units are constructed, to be balanced for style offense and defense. If you are right, and Miller will be great for Oden, I imagine, when Miller comes in for Blake, more of the plays will be run for Greg, whereas with Blake they will be running more sets for LMA and Roy. Joel won’t just sub in with Miller automatically. I really don’t think we have a problem, but then again, I would be worried if we were playing Roy and Miller together to start the season, when they haven’t gelled yet.

by wingzeta on Oct 24, 2009 1:50 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

We've seen Roy take over games because his teammates weren't able to hit their shots.

Now when Miller does the same thing for the same reason he’s a ball-hog?

"She turned me into a newt!
A newt?
...I got better."

by Seijeff on Oct 24, 2009 7:56 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Except that

Miller makes Oden, Aldridge, Batum, Webster, Joel, Bayless, Outlaw, and even Howard better, he’s at least a better defender than Blake, and he doesn’t dribble into the corner and make a pass falling out of bounds like Blake does.

by sabonis11 on Oct 24, 2009 7:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Really? He proved that to you?

How? He hasn’t proved it to me. I haven’t seen any awesome chemistry with Miller and Oden?

What I have seen is Miller brick shots in crucial periods in the game. His shot selection in the Denver game I went to was pretty bad.

He’s a two year role player while Brandon is the franchise. What Brandon is comfortable with is about $60 million more important. If you really have to watch the feelings of a $7 million 34 year old man or he’ll behave badly, he should not be starting — he shouldn’t even be playing.

That being said, I’m confident that Miller is a professional. He probably doesn’t like the idea that he’s getting older and that a player he feels is not his equal is starting in his place. Still, he’s not a headcase, and he should deal with it. The biggest issue is whether he can adjust his game to suit Portland — which is the way it should be when a role player joins a team — not the other way around.

by Anim8rguy on Oct 23, 2009 8:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Your 'proof' compared with the team's 'proof' (body of complete analytical data) might be short about 99%

Given the millions the team spends on analytical systems, film study, scouting reports, coaching analysis, closed practice sessions and training camp sessions compared to the few minutes we see in four games (assuming you went to all of them) seems closer to speculation than proof.

I get that you have opinions and I welcome them. I have just enough math and science in my background to think proof is too strong a word.

"Either way we have two phenomenal units. I'm excited to play with either one." - Martell Webster

by lee3022 on Oct 24, 2009 1:22 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

All that math and science background, coupled with the faith in the team's analytics...

Should prove it to you, because after all the research they signed the guy.

"She turned me into a newt!
A newt?
...I got better."

by Seijeff on Oct 24, 2009 7:58 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, it shows me that opinions formed without most of the evidence is just opinion and not proof

You have to isolate the other variables before you can establish even a theory that one variable proves a conclusion. You illustrate my point quite well by asserting the team’s intentions for using Andre when they signed him. Nate’s comments over all these years and KP’s comments over recent years are that they sign players who can provide needed skills and Nate then determines the use of those skills based upon many of the factors I list above which are unavailable to the press, the fans or the opponents. This leaves someone on the outside incapable of determine proof from a tiny fraction of those factors and demanding a change. It is to me an inappropriate use of the term proof. Perhaps the words ‘personal opinion’ would be better substituted or even ‘possibly suggests’ to indicate an acknowledgment that the poster does not have most of the data to form an educated conclusion.

"Either way we have two phenomenal units. I'm excited to play with either one." - Martell Webster

by lee3022 on Oct 24, 2009 9:49 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Blake wasn't the 3rd best PG in the Western Conference

He was more like sixth best. Many reports rate Blake anywhere from the 20th to 30th best PG in the league. On average, a starter, but a below average starter.

While Miller is a consensus Top 10 PG.

20/10 = 2 = 2 × 1

QED

by LaoTzu on Oct 25, 2009 6:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Miller has never made the all star game

I’m not buying your math.

If you go to this page, Blake is listed 4th and Miller is listed 7th. So Blake outranks him there. Then if you crunch the numbers, Blake is getting a 13.32 and Miller has a 16.90 which not twice the PERS of Blake.

Miller is no doubt better than Blake, but he is not twice the point guard as Blake. If he was, he would be at least a decent outside shooter.

by tominhawaii on Oct 26, 2009 7:27 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Anyone remember that

McMillian did not sign his extension because he was not sure if he would be the one that could lead this team to the Championship? My feeling is that Nate is too committed to the players he likes personally. I mean you Steve Blake and Travis Outlaw. This does not mean these guys aren’t good. It doesn’t mean that they won’t be successful. But one has to wonder why we have a fast pace team and a slow coach. Lastly, if Brandon is sandbagging it he should be ashamed. That lacks total professionalism. I would rather have a guy that is honest about his sandbagging then one that does it because he is covering for a buddy. You get paid to play with who ever is on the court. That is why you have a MAX CONTRACT!

Bring back Franz Bread Cards!

by newbergfan on Oct 23, 2009 5:49 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

This is exactly the kind of response...

…that this post will breed. One more person who now thinks Brandon should be ashamed of himself because it was “suggested” he may be sandbagging! He now lacks professionalism in your eyes and is not doing the job he is paid to do.

STOP THE MADNESS!!!

It’s Brandon Roy we are talking about. You remember him right? The guy everybody was threatening to jump off Multnomah Falls over if we didn’t sign a short time ago.

by Ilikeemall on Oct 23, 2009 6:01 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The key word that you fail to understand is the word

IF. It should be clear I don’t think he is and I believe he is professional. This is the same as all of them. No big deal if your best friend with someone. The key here is scoring more points then the other team. We can do that with Miller at the Point better then with Blake. That is my belief. I think it is best to build around Roy not let Roy build the team. That is KP’s job.

Bring back Franz Bread Cards!

by newbergfan on Oct 23, 2009 6:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Speculation becomes fact...

…and IF becomes truth. After the actual word “IF” in your post… there is nothing but negative, shame on you Brandon, stuff.

I respect your feelings that you believe Miller to be a better choice than Blake. The real fact is though that it isn’t our call. If Blake starts…I support him. If Miller starts…GO ANDRE. Why do we have to point fingers at imaginary or speculative flailings?

by Ilikeemall on Oct 23, 2009 6:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're taking this a little seriously, don't you think?

Any discussion of the politics on a team is going to be speculative. And I disagree that it becomes fact.

But it is important. Pundits talk about how the Blazers seem to be “soft.” Well this is an example of where that softness originates. Men steer clear of problems like this because they have one thing in mind: achieving success. Boys steer towards problems like this because they still have learning to do to become men.

Creating a drama with Andre may not become a problem, but their steering towards it is. Because it shows they are not ready for the big time yet.

by Blazin' on Oct 23, 2009 6:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just giving my opinion...

…which is why you made this post isn’t it?

You made these speculative statements. Do you believe them to be fact? If you do…and it sounds like that’s the case… it has become fact for you.

The “boys” steering towards this problem ARE the pundits who are speculating about imaginary problems and letting them form into fact in their minds. The men on the Blazers can only be judged by their results on the court… during the REAL games. Which also happens to be where the “softness” thing comes from. I don’t think NBA fans think we’re soft because of our off court actions… Do you?

 In my opinion anybody who thinks that #7…Brandon Roy… The guy who has been the heart and soul of this young and talented team that has brought all of us here to express our opinions… sandbagged and played poorly souly to make Miller look bad and get his way… hasn’t been watching this team for the last three years. That is not the Brandon Roy that I know. Do you really, really believe that?

The people creating the drama with Andre are the fans… Maybe we’re not ready for the big time.

by Ilikeemall on Oct 23, 2009 8:44 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

nice reversal at the end.

I am able to distinguish between fact and theory. When a theory becomes a likelihood based upon the evidence, it becomes a good theory, but still not fact. The theories posited in the post could never be “facts” because they address states of mind.

It is true that we the fans create drama. But that does not mean that there is no drama happening on the team. We are like archaeologists trying to piece together what happened thousands of years ago based on some very limited evidence.

Instead of the filter of time and decay, our shards pass through the sports media.

But I too have watched the Blazers for 3 years. And this is not the first time that I have questioned the solidity of the Blazers leadership.

Nate has been calling for veteran leadership after each of those seasons.

He sees something there. Or rather, something missing there.

Brandon’s ability to get to the rim or make a last second shot or give tremendous effort do not really speak to his leadership. It gives him the right to lead. But not necessarily the talent for it. I think he still might grow in to it. What this integration of Andre Miller suggests is that he hasn’t yet. Simple as that.

by Blazin' on Oct 23, 2009 9:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You can distinguish between fact and theory...

…but your post is based on made up facts and speculation that you chose to present as reality.

The archaeologist thing is swell but there is no science involved in your opinions. Instead it is based what you “see” that you aren’t there to see and your “sniffer”.

I now choose to end this discussion with you so feel free to have the last word. My final opinion is that your post, in all it’s eloquence…is weak sauce.

GO BLAZERS!!!

by Ilikeemall on Oct 23, 2009 9:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Can we agree?
Lastly, if Brandon is sandbagging it he should be ashamed. That lacks total professionalism.

If, if, IF, it is true as it appears, then this would be some very questionable behavior on any player’s part. I have been shocked by Brandon‘s willingness to associate himself publicly with stuff like this. I expect more from him. This is not something I have wanted to see or like seeing.

There is more to an athlete than how fast they can run, they also better be able to see what they are doing and know why they are doing it.

by KINGofMACct on Oct 23, 2009 6:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yep...

…and we can agree that if Andre Miller was taking bad shots and excluding Roy from the offense to make him look bad that would be terrible and we shouldn’t stand for it…right?

But guess what that wasn’t the case… and I choose to believe the “specualtion” about Brandon sandbagging isn’t either…

No proof… It’s a witch hunt.

by Ilikeemall on Oct 23, 2009 6:31 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thank You!

Then I think there is a generalized agreement on a very important point.

Now it is just a matter of what we believe we are seeing.

There is more to an athlete than how fast they can run, they also better be able to see what they are doing and know why they are doing it.

by KINGofMACct on Oct 23, 2009 6:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes...

…and what I see…and have seen for three years… is that Brandon is far above playing poorly on purpose just to make Miller look bad.

Are you saying that what you’ve seen makes you think he actually has been sandbagging to get his way?

No offense but I find that whole line of thinking absurd.

by Ilikeemall on Oct 23, 2009 8:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think there is a distinction between deliberately "sandbagging" and not giving it your best in the preseason.

Either way, the results are the same are they not?

"She turned me into a newt!
A newt?
...I got better."

by Seijeff on Oct 24, 2009 9:30 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If you mean the results of posters jumping to conclusions without evidence are the same then yes

"Either way we have two phenomenal units. I'm excited to play with either one." - Martell Webster

by lee3022 on Oct 24, 2009 10:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

what's all this about evidence?

there is no evidence for a person’s state of mind! The post is a conjecture to explain behavior seen on the court and in the media. The favoritism I am seeing on here towards evidence based arguments is a strange bias. We are not doing a science experiment here. We are talking about individual human beings. As such, science and mathematics have almost nothing to say about it.

I find it sad that the art of making an argument is so degraded by this love of a mathematical approach. Applied to things that it has no bearing on!

If one pays attention to what’s going on in the world, one might notice that the social sciences, built upon the statistical method are wreaking havoc! It was a nobel prize winner in Economics who established that the housing market could not go down, and it was based on that mathematically “proven” theory that Wall Street created all the mortgage derivatives which cause a global financial meltdown. Had there been even 100 people in positions of influence who tempered their faith in mathematics with some common sense and context, the whole thing might have been avoided.

A similar argument can be made about American medicine.

Statistics can be very useful. But very easily over-applied. And in applying them to situations with individuals, statistics need to be heavily tempered with common sense and context.

by Blazin' on Oct 24, 2009 10:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

See my post below to understand my objection

It is certainly not incumbent on people to prove their opinions, stated as opinions. It is the objection to the absolute judgments made, as I see them, without knowing the facts and circumstances that bring my caution to your posting and other’s responses. There is no access to the individuals involved to allow them even to present those facts so we will likely never know. Ann’s links to Andre’s quoted reaction is illustrative of my point. This is at least a small piece of evidence from the player himself. It seems to directly contradict some judgments here. It is possible that if Nate or Brandon addressed the issues it would be more of that same line – the best thing for the team is always the intention.

My point is not about what is evidence. My point is that there is no weight of evidence at all here, whether in statistical or stated form. This is not about statistical evidence but any evidence to support the assumptions under the rules of logic. That logic suggests that for proof in conclusion you need to examine the assumptions. This examination must bear the weight of evidence to verify those assumptions. The conclusion must include all other assumptions that might valid as well. That is what is lacking.

"Either way we have two phenomenal units. I'm excited to play with either one." - Martell Webster

by lee3022 on Oct 24, 2009 11:57 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

proportion.

My caution is that the more mature and civilized approach is to assume good motives for every action until the weight of evidence makes that assumption impossible.

What can i say? I find that to be a most excellent guide for treating people, and one that i aspire to in my own life.

Can you see though that there is very little in the post that justifies your strident language of “absolute judgement?”

Nowhere in the post did I say Brandon is ____ or Nate is ____ .

I believe if you pull back your lens a bit you will see that the characterizations of Nate and Brandon are distinctly non-judgemental. That was the reason for using the first person. In other words, they don’t attribute negative intention.

With the exception of “going behind the back” and “sandbagging.” And I agree that both those tend to inflate their actions. But who hasn’t done these things?

These are errors of omission on their part, not commision. Nate didn’t expressly communicate to Miller that he wouldn’t start. Brandon didn’t expressly make an effort to integrate Miller. I may be making “absolute judgements,” but they are judgements about things that are misdemeanors at best. More like parking tickets.

I think what provoked me to write the piece, was the use of the media. Because after being handled once in the media by Nate with the Blake announcement, now Andre had to absorb the pre-emptive strike from Brandon about playing on the second unit. But that crap happens in the sports world all the time.

Par for the course I’m sure.

So you might want to save terms like “accusation” or “absolute judgement.” for something more grievous.

But I take your point. And respect your credo.

by Blazin' on Oct 25, 2009 12:58 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I do believe I have erred in coming on as strong as I have

You have manned up well under the barrage and no doubt will write many fine things in the future. I do not want to hijack anyone’s post and that is my error.

"Either way we have two phenomenal units. I'm excited to play with either one." - Martell Webster

by lee3022 on Oct 26, 2009 1:03 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have always loved math,

but it is almost laughable at times when people try to use words like "proof" for largely unquantifiable variables (basically best guesses). "Garbage in garbage out!" Turning a false assumption into a formula does not cleanse it or make it true.

In the same way, being positive, or taking the best case scenario into account does not make something true anymore than taking the worst case scenario as the truth. Human behavior is simply not that easy to predict or to judge.

It is also interesting to see people try to "prove" something while deliberately limiting the use of all of the relevant facts or variables. "Prove," is a strong and often overused word. "Best guess." is often closer to the truth. The need to "win" the argument often takes precedence over the argument, even if twisting and selective memory are necessary.

How about, "Innocent until proven guilty." The law recognizes a burden of proof or a percentage chance of guilt or innocence. Assumptions are involved at the base (IF) of almost any logical argument (THEN). Mathematical arguments can be powerful tools, but like anything else they can be grossly inaccurate and misused.

In the end, Brandon Roy’s behavior during this preseason is a matter of opinion. None of us are mind readers, so we must form an opinion. I would also subscribe to the line of thinking that says it is best to remain positive when reasonably possible, but knowing human behavior, I also recognize the relevancy of raising questions.

There is more to an athlete than how fast they can run, they also better be able to see what they are doing and know why they are doing it.

by KINGofMACct on Oct 25, 2009 6:11 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

there is a bias towards the quantitative

in American Universities. Often at the expense of broader critical thinking skills. We live in the age of the technologist and middle manager.

by Blazin' on Oct 25, 2009 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I 100% Agree.

I do doubt that Brandon would do this. He wants a championship like everyone else if not more. I do think that most fans on this site play to deep into the personal relationships of the players. Like I said before the bottom line is scoring points. I think Andre helps more then Blake. I would like to see him because I think he gives us the best chance of winning. I do like Blake. I think he would be the best back up point Guard in the league. He and Pryz would both be top reserves in the league. No doubt about it.

Bring back Franz Bread Cards!

by newbergfan on Oct 23, 2009 10:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

No - there is still speculation in understanding his purpose in doing so

What I am sure of is Brandon wants the team to succeed. What also appears from the history is that Nate sees and understand Brandon and talks with him about all sorts of things.

Brandon’s role in preseason is to get himself ready for the regular season. He has done that.

Brandon’s secondary role as a leader of the team is to help other players and the coaches to get themselves ready for the season. Given his desire for the team to succeed I believe he has worked to that end no matter what form that might appear to take.

It is the coaches job to mesh the players together to provide them as a team the opportunity to succeed (win). They have a nice history with this team of doing just that.

So as long as you are speculating how about add these to your speculation lists:

1. Coaches asked Brandon not to play his normal role yet so as not to unduly influence the evaluation of other players.
2. Brandon has had an undisclosed injury or risk of injury (begging of a stress fracture?) that the trainers have not wanted him to drive to the hoop yet to heal.
3. Brandon simply noting that his body gets enough of a beating in the regular season and the coaches have asked him not to take it into the paint in the preseason.

All pure speculation but in every case I would find no reason for Brandon to be ashamed. Actually the third one is not speculation but a quote from Brandon. No shame thank you. I pass.

"Either way we have two phenomenal units. I'm excited to play with either one." - Martell Webster

by lee3022 on Oct 24, 2009 1:39 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

There are reasons Miller is playing on his 5th team in 11 years

not necessarily negative but just a relection of his nature. His interview with Yahoo Sports for example was a knucklehead move and a genuine disappointment but not exactly the end of the world. Well, he gets his sad and lonely wish; to be left alone to throw the rock without any attachments to his teammates or fans. That’s part of his path I suppose; just don’t expect people to follow along on that sad journey. We’re having way too much fun crying over Blake and Travis and Oden and how long before we have a collective heart attack from these game winning last second shots. Way too much fun to wait for Miller to lighten up.

by oregonslee on Oct 23, 2009 6:20 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Yes there are...
There are reasons Miller is playing on his 5th team in 11 years

(1) With his agent he forced his way out of Cleveland to pursue a max deal.

(2) Temporarily in Los Angeles with the Clips for last year of rookie deal.

(3) Offered sweet deal by lowly Nuggets; Clips predictably failed to match.

(4) Traded to Philadelphia by Nuggets for Iverson.

(5) Contract ran out, got dissed by Philly management, came to Blazers.

"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal

by timbo on Oct 25, 2009 11:37 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Rec for truth

"We believe" -Rudy Fernandez

by twiggs on Oct 26, 2009 6:02 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

This Post is a FAIL!

Miller needs to be thankful for the money and the opportunity the Trailblazers have given him. This is his chance to be on a contender. I’m sure he will embrace any role he is given, following the TEAM concept. If he falls to do this or becomes a problem, he can be traded.

by Rick_D on Oct 23, 2009 6:23 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Miller took Philly to the playoffs last year

It is not like we got him from Sacramento.

by LaoTzu on Oct 23, 2009 6:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

How come Roy and Blake can't accept the team concept?

I mean, have you seen Miller and Oden together?

by sabonis11 on Oct 24, 2009 7:46 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

See tominhawaii's post below (can't miss it) - very appropriate here as well

"Either way we have two phenomenal units. I'm excited to play with either one." - Martell Webster

by lee3022 on Oct 24, 2009 10:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

How far did he get them?

It’s not like he’s Hall of Fame Material.

by Rick_D on Oct 23, 2009 6:34 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Good Point!

But I am loving what he can do for this team, if he accepts his role.

by Rick_D on Oct 23, 2009 6:37 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Why is starting so important?

Miller will get his minutes with Roy and without him. If the combination proves to be a productive one, which I think it will, he will stay on the floor for more minutes than Blake. If the starting unit gets the team into a hole every night, Miller will move into the starting line up. If Miller takes not starting as a nod from Nate that Blake is a better PG/player, he isn’t paying attention. I think he is paying attention.

PTB Liberation Day - 2/10/04

by tssbro on Oct 23, 2009 7:17 PM PDT via mobile reply actions   0 recs

Getting minutes with Oden?

There is more to an athlete than how fast they can run, they also better be able to see what they are doing and know why they are doing it.

by KINGofMACct on Oct 23, 2009 7:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Minutes with Webster & Rudy?

He will get minutes with Oden. Just not the first 6-8 of the game. I would be surprised if Miller ends up getting less than 30 minutes in any game this year.

PTB Liberation Day - 2/10/04

by tssbro on Oct 23, 2009 7:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Getting minutes with Joel to make Joel an offensive threat as he did in Vancouver is not good?

Oden seems to play well with others.

"Either way we have two phenomenal units. I'm excited to play with either one." - Martell Webster

by lee3022 on Oct 24, 2009 1:41 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I for one want to see as much inside scoring and passing as possible.

There is more to an athlete than how fast they can run, they also better be able to see what they are doing and know why they are doing it.

by KINGofMACct on Oct 25, 2009 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If Brandon wanted things a certain way

and now he’s happy, then I’m happy. Because his idea of happiness does not mean averaging 30pts/gm, it means Ws and having this be the best team possible.

I think Miller, because he can drive and score as well as dish, makes a lot of sense coming in off the bench. We’ll see how he plays with Rudy. This is not the only possible way to do things — but it’s not outlandish or crazy.

Until I actually see them play on TV, I remain in a state of what Sextus Empiricus, the Roman philosopher, called “mental suspense.” In other words I’m not drawing any premature conclusions and I could care less about this speculative drama-mongering for the sake of drama-mongering.

ignacio

by ignacio on Oct 23, 2009 8:03 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Brandon is an outstanding Bball player whose game is still growing, but when you say:
If Brandon wanted things a certain way and now he’s happy, then I’m happy

Are you saying that Brandon’s understanding of the game is greater than the best coaches in the league. His overall vision of the game is superior to theirs? Better vision than Nate’s or Phil’s or Pop’s?

Under a good coach’s tutelage a player often surpasses his current level of understanding. I believe that should be true of Brandon also. Whether he is happy or whether he agrees fully with how he is being used is not the question. The question is, "What strategic decisions will help the team play its best come playoff time?"

There is more to an athlete than how fast they can run, they also better be able to see what they are doing and know why they are doing it.

by KINGofMACct on Oct 25, 2009 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nice Psych 101

I knew that Brandon and Nate were in this together. They probably discussed it over brandy and fat cigars. Their next move is for Nate to be a player/coach and be the starting PG.

I think people have a tendancy to project their own misgivings of self confidence into a topic or event they truely know nothing about. Just let them play this out and quit listening to Simmons. I predict Miller is starting by Christmas.

Its delightful, its delicious, its delug

by GertJohnnys on Oct 23, 2009 8:31 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

If he is starting, its cuz he earned it

Portland has to start strong this year — not like last year when the got out of the gates a little slow.

For that reason, making a significant change that has no proven history is probably a bad idea. If Miller starts later in the year, it’s because he has proven himself as a known quantity within the Portland style of team play.

by Anim8rguy on Oct 23, 2009 8:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Amen

Two thumbs way up.

Its delightful, its delicious, its delug

by GertJohnnys on Oct 23, 2009 8:45 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Sorry - That was for Anim8rguy

Its delightful, its delicious, its delug

by GertJohnnys on Oct 23, 2009 8:46 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am often one of the first to protest to drama mongering.

But perhaps I am guilty of it here. The use of the word “sandbagging” definitely makes it more inflammatory. My guess is that Brandon was not consciously undermining Andre. But that is not the issue. The issue is why does Brandon not feel certain enough of his own position and abilities to give the experiment a whole-hearted try. Why the emotional reaction? And why a head coach who seems unable to address this more efficiently?

And how do I know he reacted emotionally? I don’t. But it feels that way.

This post is not about Andre Miller or who should start at PG. It is about something I’m seeing and have seen from the Blazers leadership and management.

It is a lack of the killer instinct and the single minded purposefulness that underlies it.

Phil Jackson will use the media to get more out of his players. But when I see what looks like passive-aggression in the media, it leads me to think something else is going on. That the leadership of this team is not yet ready mentally to take the next step!

by Blazin' on Oct 23, 2009 9:04 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Peeking through the blinds is not seeing the whole picture or even a fraction of the picture

Ok – using Quick is dirty. But setting yourself up as judge without hearing a single word of testimony or receiving a single piece of evidence will get you impeached as judge. I think that might be what happened here.

I get that you have strong opinions and I am fine with that. Most blogs thrive on these sort of posts. At BE the consensus seems to be that you have to defend your opinions with facts and that is what is being asked of you here as well. BE gets quoted regularly on Yahoo and Hoopshype and True Hoop. With fame comes responsibility :)

"Either way we have two phenomenal units. I'm excited to play with either one." - Martell Webster

by lee3022 on Oct 24, 2009 1:50 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

What we see is still a small part of what the Blazers see

The league has installed 6 HD cameras in every arena and provide multiple views of every play. We are limited to one or maybe twp on replay. They synthesize and analyze each player and each play and can gage the relative strengths of the opponents for each play. The coaches have the training and experience to hone in on the little things that create the success while some of us might also but I know I don’t have that training and experience.

Sure it counts to watch the games. It still is a very small part of the picture. zzz

"Either way we have two phenomenal units. I'm excited to play with either one." - Martell Webster

by lee3022 on Oct 26, 2009 12:46 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well to me...

…this post is about an unfounded opinion about the heart and soul of the team I love to root for. Therefore I don’t like and am going to say so.

Changing your speculation about “sandbagging” to an accusation that Brandon is insecure in his role and therefore didn’t “give the experiment a whole-hearted try” and that he reacted emotionally is just further “drama mongering”. As is saying that a team that hasn’t played a single regular season game has no killer instinct.

None of this is what you’ve seen…it’s what you think…and I don’t agree. That’s ok though that’s what this blog is for.

by Ilikeemall on Oct 23, 2009 9:26 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

My Sarcasm is getting the best of me

I’ve written this responce about 5 times now and deleted it
Thank you ann for posting that.
Miller sounds fine, Can we not post anything about what will happen untill we’re 5 games into the season?

We went like this, he went like that. I say to Hollywood: Where'd he go? Hollywood says: where'd who go?

by Black84GTI on Oct 23, 2009 10:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Timely Ann Thanks

"Either way we have two phenomenal units. I'm excited to play with either one." - Martell Webster

by lee3022 on Oct 24, 2009 1:57 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Meant for above

"Either way we have two phenomenal units. I'm excited to play with either one." - Martell Webster

by lee3022 on Oct 24, 2009 1:58 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thank you Ann

great link. I had not read that.

Bring back Franz Bread Cards!

by newbergfan on Oct 23, 2009 10:57 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Best Part
Yeah, you always want to be the big man’s best friend, because he’s going to protect you when you get beat. And you’ve got to reward him on the offensive end. They’re not just out there to play defense and rebound, they want to put the ball in the basket, too. My job is to reward him for his hard work.

’’

I dunno, it’s just cute.

"We believe" -Rudy Fernandez

by twiggs on Oct 26, 2009 6:07 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks Ann...

Real words, from people involved… Good stuff! It’ll all be fine the guy is a seasoned pro and will evolve into a key piece in my opinion… thanks again.

by Ilikeemall on Oct 23, 2009 10:03 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I agree that it appears that the miller situation has not been handled well. There does seem to be discrepancy between what Miller expected (to start) and what has happened so far. That points to poor communication to me. So I think the original post is a good juicy speculation with at least some grain of truth.

I am not feeling happy with the way the preseason has gone. It is hard to see what is going on cause I could not see the preseason games, so I can only speculate based on box scores. 4 of the past 6 games the opponent shot 50% or higher. That is a tendency I did not like last year and it is disappointing to see it manifesting in the preseason now. I would hope for a new vigor on defense (A Blazers weakness).

I don’t get the feeling that the preseason was used well to integrate Miller. Though I could not watch, I do not like that Miller had games where he was taking 15-16 shots. Too much imo. I would not necessarily criticize Miller for that, nor necessarily the coaching staff. Just overall it seems like a lack of focus from various directions and both on the court and in the faces and words in interviews.

In that interview above, Miller says he did not get to play with Roy much. IMO they should have played more together in the preseason. Even if Blake will start, he knows how to play with Roy and they do not need much practice. In that interview Miller also mentioned that they are not a running team and he will have to get used to bringing it up slower. Did the Blazers try some more up tempo play in the preseason? Anyone saw the games and can comment? I do have a certain lack of confidence in Nate to have some flexibility to use players to their strengths.

Go Blazers!!

by jidooo on Oct 24, 2009 12:00 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Nate is a quality coach...but communication isn't one of his strong points

Nate has had a pretty bad track record when it comes to communicating with his players as well as inadvertently playing with their minds.

Senior Asian ambassador of Blazers Edge

by Philthyanimal on Oct 25, 2009 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Observations based on two preseason games viewed...

1. Oden looks much better, like he belongs on the floor and knows it. ( I know you didn’t ask a question that led to that answer but I have to point that out.)

2. Miller looked really good when he was working “outside the system”. When he had the ball and was just looking to create he found guys breaking to the basket, he got the ball inside to Oden and Aldridge, and penetrated and hit his pull up jumpers. He got the ball to guys when they beat their men down the court.

3. There were long stretches where the Blazers struggled to get into any kind of offensive going. It didn’t seem to matter who was on the floor. Thus, I understand Nate going back to Blake to get the offense working again, like last year.

I think it is Miller who is going to have to adjust his game to Nate’s system to begin with. I don’t think he will have a problem doing it. It will just take some time for him to learn to work in the system. As he does that, Nate will feel more comfortable with the times he creates on his own and the reins will loosen up a bit more and Miller will probably move into the starting line up.

I don’t have a problem with Nate doing that but it is obvious that some people, maybe even Andre, do. NBATV had Brent Barry and Eric Snow talking about the issue in their season preview and they sounded pretty much like the arguments going on here…not quite as in depth. Andre should be starting since he has earned it over his career (no disrepect to Blake) vs Andre has to adjust to the Blazers(coaches and players), they won 54 games with Blake at the helm.

PTB Liberation Day - 2/10/04

by tssbro on Oct 25, 2009 10:09 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

solution

put greg on the 2nd unit and bench the starting unit more!

by riccc_l on Oct 24, 2009 12:10 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Its about 16

wins in the post season

"Either way we have two phenomenal units. I'm excited to play with either one." - Martell Webster

by lee3022 on Oct 24, 2009 1:58 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

i got "jump again."

Guess I’ll have to write another post. Maybe one about KP’s relationship with his mother…

by Blazin' on Oct 24, 2009 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Are you

being too serious again?

The best players only try to, "do it all," themselves when it is a playoff necessity or, on occasion, to put on a show. Other than that, the game is easy for them, and they are just having fun and getting a workout in. There is no need to belabor the point!

by KINGofMACct on Oct 25, 2009 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It is best to be able to mix it up in the clinches???

The best players only try to, "do it all," themselves when it is a playoff necessity or, on occasion, to put on a show. Other than that, the game is easy for them, and they are just having fun and getting a workout in. There is no need to belabor the point!

by KINGofMACct on Oct 25, 2009 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm just filling my role on the team and doing what coach asks me to do on post at a time

We got plenty of other people to be serious, and there is less confusion when folks know their role.

by tominhawaii on Oct 25, 2009 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’m tired of Brandon

having all the fun, I‘m not passing him the ball anymore! And I am always selfish and always serious.

The best players only try to, "do it all," themselves when it is a playoff necessity or, on occasion, to put on a show. Other than that, the game is easy for them, and they are just having fun and getting a workout in. There is no need to belabor the point!

by KINGofMACct on Oct 25, 2009 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nice

Someone’s going to get mad at you.

by tominhawaii on Oct 26, 2009 7:29 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Truly this is a horrible idea.

Nice Office Space reference. I love that movie!

Bring back Franz Bread Cards!

by newbergfan on Oct 25, 2009 9:46 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Alotta Words...

..and I hope i didn’t offend anyone.

It’s fairly obvious if you read this thread that I don’t agree with the premise of the post. I do want everyone to know that I respect their opinions and appreciate that it doesn’t get personal here on BE. This is a great place for Blazer fans…

…even crazy one’s who think Brandon’s trying to sabotage our success… Just kiddin Blazin’… thanks for your post even if I don’t agree it definately sparked some interest.

Take Care and…

GO BLAZERS!!!

by Ilikeemall on Oct 24, 2009 1:45 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

As an admitted "homer" you do your job well

I hope you have come to see the light now though. ;>) Well maybe not!

We all want the Blazers to win another championship very soon, and I can see you having a very good time when they do!

GO BLAZERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There is more to an athlete than how fast they can run, they also better be able to see what they are doing and know why they are doing it.

by KINGofMACct on Oct 25, 2009 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Great great post

I agree with everything. Andre’s so much better than Blake. I mean, Blake just dribbles in circles. Roy needs someone to pop his ego balloon. Nate needs to start playing favorites and babying a starting line-up, that, although many of you forgotten this, sucked against the Rockets. They were shut down completely on offense, largely because there was no one to set up a good offense. Their defense was like swiss cheese, largely because there wasn’t anyone playing tough against Aarron Brooks and Pryzbilla, Oden and Aldridge had to compansate, leaving Yao and Scola open and Oden in foul trouble. I’m not saying all of the Blazers’ shortcomings are Steve Blake’s fault, just most of them are.

by sabonis11 on Oct 24, 2009 7:44 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

If we signed Lebron

some people who make him “prove” he deserved to start over Batum. Sometimes history speaks for itself.

by TheTinfoil on Oct 24, 2009 11:11 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I'd have no problem with that

It’s not like it would take more than 5 minutes of practice for him to win the job and Nate would be consistent.

by tominhawaii on Oct 25, 2009 5:22 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Isn’t it possible

that Nate would decide to "think outside the box" again and decide that Lebron would work better with the second unit. Assuming Nic would work better with the starters? Wouldn’t that start the discussion of units all over again? In this way of thinking I am not sure anyone could "win" a starting position.

There is more to an athlete than how fast they can run, they also better be able to see what they are doing and know why they are doing it.

by KINGofMACct on Oct 25, 2009 5:28 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe

To me I think it’s kind of a tier thing. Lebron is the top tier of everyone. He’s obviously a tier or two above Batum. Anything but lip service regarding him competing for the starting spot is laughable.

When it comes to Miller and Blake, I think they’re both second tier but Miller is a B+ and Blake is a B- (you can even drop Blake to a C+ or C if you want more separation). If Miller was an all star, then he would probably have an outside shot and his game would better mesh with Roy’s game and this wouldn’t even be a discussion.

by tominhawaii on Oct 25, 2009 6:51 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

What you say does make sense.

As a coach, I am just not sure I would want to go very far down that road because it goes against some time honored guidelines. You may appear to have agreement and unity when, in fact, you are creating problems that are going to fester into an infected wound.

There is more to an athlete than how fast they can run, they also better be able to see what they are doing and know why they are doing it.

by KINGofMACct on Oct 25, 2009 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'll take Roy playing like he did last year starting with Blake, and Miller playing better than Sergio off the bench and not happy

Over Roy and Miller starting and they both get upset over their number of touches. I’m not saying Miller will be the 6th man, because I expect he will start soon, I’m just saying that it is Roy’s team.

by tominhawaii on Oct 25, 2009 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

As noted in the post above

it is no longer Roy’s team, its my team!

The best players only try to, "do it all," themselves when it is a playoff necessity or, on occasion, to put on a show. Other than that, the game is easy for them, and they are just having fun and getting a workout in. There is no need to belabor the point!

by KINGofMACct on Oct 25, 2009 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Are you saying Miller/Blake = Lebron/Batum?

I have not seen any proof that Miller has completely outplayed Blake. If that was true, he’d probably be starting. It seems to me that Blake outplayed Miller when it comes to playing with Roy and that is all that matters to McMillan.

by tominhawaii on Oct 26, 2009 7:31 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I appreciate you post because it has generated considerable discussion and that is healthy

It is good that the views and frustrations that are generated (often by shock jocks or one of two toxic-minded reporters) over the starting lineup. Our own Ben (definitely not toxic) has also generated some of this dismay over Andre on the bench . There are a couple of thoughts I wanted to add to the discussion at this point;

1. When you say someone goes behind another’s back that action is referring to a secretive move. Talking with the press is clearly not secret. It can also be attributed to stepping out of the chain of command. Nate is the coach and except for Isiah in NY being muzzled I can think of few instances where a coach is out of line talking with the press. Nate is clearly above Andre in the chain of command and therefore cannot be stepping out of that chain. Another definition:

[- GO BEHIND SOMEONE’S BACK -
.
GO BEHIND SOMEONE’S BACK means to interfere in people’s affairs without permission, usually in a dishonest or selfish way.]

2. The ease that we leap to judgments of others in this society seems to be a step back from a more civilized day. Perhaps the political climate has fostered this. My caution is that the more mature and civilized approach is to assume good motives for every action until the weight of evidence makes that assumption impossible. In other words the burden of proof is on the accuser and in our microcosm of fandom on Blazersedge it is all too easy to accuse from the anonymity of our access here. In my opinion bringing an accusation against another is a serious charge that should be done in an open way and with substantial evidence displayed to support the conclusion.

I make no judgment about you in your post as I do not know you and do not know your intentions. On the contrary I assume you are a passionate fan who only wants to see the team (including Brandon and Nate) do well regardless of the personnel and their timing employed, Perhaps next time you might consider avoiding what appears to me to be very strong, accusatory wording. You might simply raise the question of what possible causes the actions you describe could have, including your own impression of a possible cause. That might change the tenor of the discussion. I look forward to many more contributions from you.

"Either way we have two phenomenal units. I'm excited to play with either one." - Martell Webster

by lee3022 on Oct 24, 2009 11:23 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Overstatement

It’s a little premature to be speculating about the PG position. In point of fact, Miller wanted badly to come to the Blazers, as was reported after his signing by Quick. At the same time, the day Miller was signed Mac stated publicly that Blake was the starter on a 54 win team, and that Miller would have to earn the position – regardless of his past. We then need to remember that Roy is a unique talent, and that it took Blake the better part of a season to integrate his game with Roy’s – which meant sharing the ball handling duties with Roy – as opposed to being a classic point who always handles the ball. We also know that the first unit needs a solid outside shooter to spread the floor and to complement our inside – midrange game of Oden/Aldridge/Roy, given that Batum is improving but not yet reliable from outside, and Webster is not yet 100%. And Miller does not do that. This leaves Blake.

Roy also stated a few days ago that he and Miller are still learning how to complement each other’s game and to play off of each other, and we know that Miller is still learning the playbook. Miller is a superior passer and can create his own shot, but until Batum/Webster step up consistently to provide an outside threat, the Blazers must balance the first unit.

Most of what is talked about here on this post is speculation with some basis, but not any certain information. Miller has a starter’s mindset – because he’s always started. But Mac made it clear at the outset that he already had a winning rotation which, with the expected improvement of Oden/Batum/Webster/Aldridge, was going to get better – and he wasn’t going to arbitrarily change that until he could see its benefits. Miller knew that from day one.

Miller also has the responsibility – as does Roy – to learn to make the changes to their games necessary for both to be effective on the floor at the same time. And this will take time, and you cannot expect this to happen in a few weeks.

In the end, the only controversy exists in the mind of some fans. Miller and Roy are professionals and they will eventually learn to adjust their games to each other.

Ironically, we forget how long it took Blake to do the same thing, in part because no one saw him early as the clear starter – which gave him the cover necessary to learn to adjust his game to Brandon. And once he did, he then started.

In my book, what we will see in the evolution of the Blazers will be three things. In the first case, the evolution of Batum/Webster in terms of providing an outside threat will offset Miller, and if and when that happens, Miller will be more likely to start. In the second case, Miller and Roy will learn to share the ball – and the scoring, and once that happens, this will also help Miller. And the final issue will be the degree to which Miller’s superior passing improves the Blazers inside game and Oden’s play.

Miller is a talent – but as some have pointed out, on this team, we already have two go to scorers in Roy and Aldridge – both of which are players who can almost always get their shot. Miller, who can often do the same thing, must adjust to this fact. Further, Oden’s post play is improving, and as it does, he will also become an increasing option inside as he will be able to get his shot against many of the other centers in the league. Rather than Miller being the second option, he then becomes a third or fourth option.

So, give it time.

by Eben Calder on Oct 25, 2009 6:53 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Miller >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Blake

The fact that he’s not starting is simply Nate over-coaching. Brandon should stop talking and play no matter what circumstances are thrown his way. This ’Brandon’s team’ stuff has gotten a little out of control.

Blazer Fan

by leeroyjenkins on Oct 26, 2009 6:56 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

And this is what so many people are missing.

Frankly, it’s getting a bit ridiculous how many people are faulting Brandon Roy.

Excuse me? Roy is at fault? Hardly. He IS the Blazers…he is hte most important player, the most talented player and by far the best player on the roster.

The assumption that Andre Miller (whom I have loved as a player since his U of Utah days playing for Rick Majerus) should come in and be the man, is perplexing. If Steve Blake starting give the team the best chance to win, so be it. If Miller playing with Martel, Rudy and Travis makes the team better, so be it.

I’m just not getting all the drama here……why is it so critical that Miller starts?

"I'm a man, but I can change.....if I have to......I guess." - Red Green

by antediluvian on Oct 26, 2009 9:02 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don't ask me

I think a good portion of Blazers Edge, the media, and the Blazers think Miller will be starting soon enough. I don’t understand the lamentations about him not being the starter on opening night.

by tominhawaii on Oct 26, 2009 9:09 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed... (Of Course)

I understand the Miller vs. Blake to start debate and can see both sides…which also means I can accept it either way. What I don’t understand is the,“blame Roy” movement…or blame anyone for that matter.

Andre hasn’t integrated into the team enough to start yet. I think he will but he hasn’t at this time. That isn’t anybodies fault. It takes more than 8 pre-season games to stir a new guy, no matter how good he is, into a tight-knit group like the Blazers.

Whatever happens we’re a better team than last year no matter what that Simmons character says…

…One more day until my traitorous union with Comcast starts to pay its evil rewards!

GO BLAZERS!!!

by Ilikeemall on Oct 26, 2009 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Roy should have handled this situation much differently!
What I don’t understand is the,"blame Roy" movement…

Is it possible that ROY’S OWN ACTIONS have something to do with why SO MANY people, who respect him as a player and as a member to the team, are questioning him for putting a respected veteran on front street?

The best players only try to, "do it all," themselves when it is a playoff necessity or, on occasion, to put on a show. Other than that, the game is easy for them, and they are just having fun and getting a workout in. There is no need to belabor the point!

by KINGofMACct on Oct 26, 2009 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Miller should have handled this situation much differently!

Is is possible that MILLER’S OWN ACTIONS had something to do with him not starting over Blake?.. (not my feelings necessarily but an equally valid poitn of view)

Miller is an admitted slow starter. He himself said his legs didn’t have the bounce he’d like and that his shot wasn’t where he wanted it to be.

At first I thought I was missing something in the press that Brandon was saying that was causing the “blame game”. After reading as much as possible I see nothing that tells me Roy mis- handled the situation… Or Nate for that matter. What I see is the same tendency people have regarding any controversy. Some look for a smoking gun, believe heresay as fact and blame the establishment while others have faith… maybe too much faith… in the status quo. I am admittedly the latter.

Miller IS the superior PG and I believe he will start and make a great guard duo with Roy. Why can’t people just let that happen and stop pointing fingers. The reality is it’s NOBODIES fault. Miller simply hasn’t had enough time to integrate himself into the starting unit.

GO BLAZERS!!!

by Ilikeemall on Oct 26, 2009 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'll go along with your point of view, for a sec...

If Miller had played poorly or did not mesh with Roy, then it would be perfectly correct for NATE not to start him.

I would not have any extra concern with either Nate or Roy. The problem is that Roy and Nate took this to the press first.

Roy should not have said anything but, “That is Nate’s decision, and I am sure we will get it together.” Roy might also have asked to do some extra work with Miller to help him adjust. No going to the press with anything that would make the new guy look bad!

The best players only try to, "do it all," themselves when it is a playoff necessity or, on occasion, to put on a show. Other than that, the game is easy for them, and they are just having fun and getting a workout in. There is no need to belabor the point!

by KINGofMACct on Oct 26, 2009 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's the part I'm still looking for...

Nate and Roy,“taking it to the press first”. I’ve read Quick’s stuff and the other articles I am aware of that people are using as reference but I just don’t see it.

It feels like somewhere there is an article that has Nate and Roy saying, Miller doesn’t fit, we don’t like him, we told him he wasn’t going to start, he just doesn’t work hard enough and he’ll never start for us because Brandon doesn’t want to share his basketball with him and his feet stink!… If that article is out there please link it or post it because I can’t find it. I know of no one associated with the team going to the press trying to make Miller look bad.

I make no judgements regarding other peoples opinions but it seems like “quotes” from Nate and Roy have been through that game you played in grade school where you whisper something in somebody’s ear and pass it on. Some of the innocuos,“it’ll take time to get used to each other” and “we haven’t had the chance to play together” has been turned into Brandon saying I don’t like change and don’t think I should have to cuz I’m an AllStar and Brandon is sandbagging and not trying cuz he wants Miller to look bad.

As far as what should have been said to the media by either Roy or Miller and what shouldn’t goes… suffice it to say there are a few people who think Andre could have done better also.

by Ilikeemall on Oct 26, 2009 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Let me give this a try

Coach Nate came out in the press with, something like, “We are planning on going with the same players who won 54 games for us last year.” Giving off the appearance that the bias was already against Miller starting. At the time I just thought that Nate was trying to sound loyal to Blake—so no big deal.

Later, before training camp, Roy came out in the press and said that he was more comfortable with Blake (obviously seeing as how he had not even played with Miller). Then there is a series of press statements about Roy needing the ball, etc… Again giving off an appearance of pre-judgment.

Then the work out results are published and Miller gets called antisocial, saying he has no friends on his old teams. Miller is so upset that he seeks an outside press source saying that if he would have known, he would not have come here.

Meanwhile, Nate and Brandon keep up their consistent lines to the press with Quick saying about a week ago that Nate was going back to the old line up even though Oden and Miller had outplayed Joel and Steve. Then the fire storm hit, with many people here at BE along with national media questioning the choices. A couple of days ago I heard Avery Johnson saying he felt that Andre should start. In the end Nate somewhat inexplicably waffles again, Oden starts and Miller will come off the bench.

To add to the confusion, Nate kept saying things like, “If you earn the right to start, you will start.” Most people felt that Andre had badly outplayed Blake up until the time the announcement that Blake was going to start was made. I.e. Nate took on the appearance of listening to Brandon rather than looking at Miller’s play vs. Blake’s play on the floor.

Then you give us the following quote:

It feels like somewhere there is an article that has Nate and Roy saying, Miller doesn’t fit.

Not to be curt, but what is it that you want to see? A public flogging? Miller is being told in no uncertain terms that, “he does not know all the set yet, etc…” i.e he does not fit with Roy or the team, even though he outplayed Blake.

Miller seems to be handling the situation well, but I doubt that he is happy about it based on the his statements and actions. It is poor public relations if nothing else.

Taking BR’s point of view, I can understand your defensiveness. Taking AM’s point of view, I can see why he said something to the effect of, “Come on guys, I am just trying to make a first impression here.”

The best players only try to, "do it all," themselves when it is a playoff necessity or, on occasion, to put on a show. Other than that, the game is easy for them, and they are just having fun and getting a workout in. There is no need to belabor the point!

by KINGofMACct on Oct 26, 2009 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

These are the kind of answers I always get...
Then there is a series of press statements about Roy needing the ball, etc… Again giving off an appearance of pre-judgment.

That’s THE PRESS saying that not Nate or Brandon…

Then the work out results are published and Miller gets called antisocial, saying he has no friends on his old teams. Miller is so upset that he seeks an outside press source saying that if he would have known, he would not have come here.

I believe that workout information was published by one of the guys from the Oregonian (Canzano maybe) who admitted to peeling it off the dry erase board after practice. Now I’ll admit that maybe the info shouldn’t have been there but that’s alot different then Nate calling a press conference to tell everyone Andre is out of shape. The anti-social stuff…again the press… not Roy or Nate.

Not to be curt, but what is it that you want to see? A public flogging? Miller is being told in no uncertain terms that, "he does not know all the set yet, etc…" i.e he does not fit with Roy or the team, even though he outplayed Blake.

You can be Curt or Fred or whoever you want to with me. We’re all friends here and I don’t take any of this personally. But what I want is words quoted directly from Nate or Brandon that support Nate going “backdoor to the press” and Brandon saying he doesn’t think he should have to change because he’s an AllStar…or even…

"he does not know all the set yet, etc…" i.e he does not fit with Roy or the team, even though he outplayed Blake.

I have heard a few people say he doesn’t know all the sets yet but I don’t remember anyone From the Blazers saying the last part… Alot of fans and media…but not the Blazers.

King you seem like a nice guy and a dedicated fan. I’m not trying to argue with but your post is just like the rest… Selective memory of snippets of information that, when put in the right order, can be, with a little imagination construed as a slight to Andre Miller from Brandon Roy and the Blazers organization.

In all honesty I just don’t want to have to work that hard or stretch that far to find something negative about the team I love to root for.

by Ilikeemall on Oct 26, 2009 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am now working to increase my level of selective amnesia. I will repeat to myself 1000 times ;>)

Media members are all liars. Never listen to them, even when what they say is consistent, appears to be true, is not rebutted, and then proves out in the end. Media members are all liars. Never listen to them, even when what they say is consistent, appears to be true, is not rebutted, and then proves out in the end. Media members are all liars. Never listen to them, even when what they say is consistent, appears to be true, not rebutted, and then proves out in the end. Media members are all liars. Never listen to them, even when what they say is consistent, appears to be true, not rebutted, and then proves out in the end. Media members are all liars. Never listen to them, even when what they say is consistent, appears to be true, not rebutted, and then proves out in the end. Media members are all liars. Never listen to them, even when what they say is consistent, appears to be true, not rebutted, and then proves out in the end.

I am glad you are a Blazers fan instead of against us. What do you think of the Fakers?

The best players only try to, "do it all," themselves when it is a playoff necessity or, on occasion, to put on a show. Other than that, the game is easy for them, and they are just having fun and getting a workout in. There is no need to belabor the point!

by KINGofMACct on Oct 26, 2009 5:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

LOL...

My hate for the L@kers started in 1972 when they beat the Knicks with Dave Debuscher, Walt Frazier (the original Clyde) Bill Bradley and Willis Reed. Yes I am old enough to remember Phil Jackson as a New York Knick… which is as close as I’ve ever come to liking l*ker (yukkk that doesn’t even feel right) I hated Wilt Chamberlain and Goodrich and Jerry West and…

Anyway… I don’t like ’em so much and never will…

Thanks for listening to my opinions and giving me yours. It’s a great time to be a Blazer fan and a great age when we can have a format like this to discuss them in.

Take Care and… (you guessed it)

GO BLAZERS!!!

by Ilikeemall on Oct 26, 2009 6:03 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why is it incumbent upon Roy to have handled it differently?

Why not Miller?

The way I see it is this team won 54 games last year without Miller. It is a very good team. Miller is the “new kid”. How he fits in is very important and should not be rushed.

The fact that he has not meshed as well with Roy as hoped is not necessarily Roy’s fault. And I find it interesting that the players are not complaining about this….just fans.

"I'm a man, but I can change.....if I have to......I guess." - Red Green

by antediluvian on Oct 27, 2009 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Whose team is it?
This ’Brandon’s team’ stuff has gotten a little out of control

.

I have always thought the organizational chart looked something like this:
1. Owner
2. GM
3. Coach
4. Players
5. Fans

This is clearly not Brandon’s team, this is a wide variety of people’s team. Some just have a little more say, a little more power. Getting a LOT more say and power comes with winning championships!

The best players only try to, "do it all," themselves when it is a playoff necessity or, on occasion, to put on a show. Other than that, the game is easy for them, and they are just having fun and getting a workout in. There is no need to belabor the point!

by KINGofMACct on Oct 26, 2009 7:43 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

So would you say that Cleveland

is not LeBron;s team? That the Lakers are not Kobe’s team?

Teams often are identified with their top star. And yes, Roy is the Blazers top star, by far,

"I'm a man, but I can change.....if I have to......I guess." - Red Green

by antediluvian on Oct 26, 2009 9:03 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

I don’t hear people bashing Cleveland’s owner, GM, or coach as the guy who didn’t beat Orlando last year.

by tominhawaii on Oct 26, 2009 9:12 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cleveland's management has been getting flack for years about getting better players around LBJ.

Last year he supposedly had his help but did not win, so he took more heat. He also took heat for his own behavior. Also, they again made a lot of moves to get him more help for this year. Not to mention that if he goes to NY this next year, it certainly will not be his team. You never know, he might buy the franchise in the future? Then it will be his team, not some player’s who happens to be good for a while.

The best players only try to, "do it all," themselves when it is a playoff necessity or, on occasion, to put on a show. Other than that, the game is easy for them, and they are just having fun and getting a workout in. There is no need to belabor the point!

by KINGofMACct on Oct 26, 2009 9:38 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Was LA Shack’s team?

NO! He is now with Lebron, and won a title with the Heat. It is all a matter of semantics. Better players have a proportionally increased level of influence on a team, but they never actually run the team or sign the checks, that is unless they buy the team or are hired in some leadership capacity. If it was all Roy’s team, why has it been considered so important to bring in veterans like Miller and Howard? Team leadership among the players is a shared responsibility and I certainly would not leave out Lamarcus or Greg. They are very important to the team’s potential as well.

The best players only try to, "do it all," themselves when it is a playoff necessity or, on occasion, to put on a show. Other than that, the game is easy for them, and they are just having fun and getting a workout in. There is no need to belabor the point!

by KINGofMACct on Oct 26, 2009 9:47 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Some people are getting way ahead of themselves!

And I have to say something about it even though I think Brandon is a very good player-as he would say himself-he has a lot left to learn.

How many playoff series has Brandon won? None. To compare him with KB and LBJ, who have won consistently in the playoffs, is just ridiculous. They are both way, way ahead of Brandon in terms of knowing what it takes to win a title. And my hope is that KB is getting tired of winning.

If I am critical of Brandon now it is on this point. Strategy vs. being able to drive through a defense and make a lay-up, are two vastly different things! Was Magic a great coach??? Or did I miss that part?

The best players only try to, "do it all," themselves when it is a playoff necessity or, on occasion, to put on a show. Other than that, the game is easy for them, and they are just having fun and getting a workout in. There is no need to belabor the point!

by KINGofMACct on Oct 26, 2009 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I hereby give my portion...

of the Controlling Interest in the Portland Trailblazers to Brandon Roy by Proxy…

…Use it well #7…

by Ilikeemall on Oct 26, 2009 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I doubt that...

From what I have seen, it is just the opposite of that, you are looking to take the team over! And If you did give your portion to #7, he would trade LA because of his unfortunate initials and because he wants the ball all of the time. (>;

The best players only try to, "do it all," themselves when it is a playoff necessity or, on occasion, to put on a show. Other than that, the game is easy for them, and they are just having fun and getting a workout in. There is no need to belabor the point!

by KINGofMACct on Oct 26, 2009 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Now Sarcasm Like That is Always a Good Thing!..

…or like this… Well if you, blame Roy guys, had control of the team you’d trade that selfish Roy, Travis Outlaw, Steve Blake and Nate for a package that contained Kirk Hindlich, Brian Scalabrini and Jeff Van Gundy… Then trade the rest of the team…including that “BUST” Greg Oden to OKC for that perenial winner and future MVP Kevin Durant.

(By the way…LaMarcus’ initials are unfortunate)

GO BLAZERS!!! … Lovers and Haters UNITE and celebrate the resurrection of the season we crave… NBA BASKETBALL SEASON

by Ilikeemall on Oct 26, 2009 12:39 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

If I was in charge...

I would have forced LMA to change his name before we signed him to that new long term cotract. ;>)

The best players only try to, "do it all," themselves when it is a playoff necessity or, on occasion, to put on a show. Other than that, the game is easy for them, and they are just having fun and getting a workout in. There is no need to belabor the point!

by KINGofMACct on Oct 26, 2009 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs


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