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Miller may not start, but he has to finish games. Here's why.


I've long been a proponent of having Andre Miller start over Steve Blake, but based on the Blazers' performance last night against Phoenix, I'm at least open to the idea that it makes some sense to keep Steve Blake as the starter (for now).  There's no question that (at least at this point), that Blake has better chemistry with Roy and Aldridge.  As long as Blake, Aldridge, and Roy are looking to feed Oden (something they didn't always do last year), I have no real objection to using this starting lineup and having Miller come off the bench. 

Though Miller is a point guard, he and Roy actually bring a lot of the same skills to the table.  Both are excellent dribble penetrators who can create their own shots.  That's why I think it's important to structure the rotation so as to have one of them (Roy or Miller) out on the court at all times.  Miller doesn't have to come off the bench for that to happen, but that's one way of doing it. 

Here's the thing, though.  In tight games we're going to *need* Miller at the PG in the 4th quarter.  Every team in the league knows that in tight games, the Blazers turn to Roy as their primary ball-handler and scorer in the 4th quarter.  Most teams have responded to this by trapping and double-teaming Roy.  In the Houston series last year, Rick Adelman made no attempt to hide that this was his strategy.  And it worked to a considerable degree.  And one of the major reasons this strategy was effective was because the Blazers had no one else on the court who could punish teams off-the-dribble when they over-committed to Roy.   Miller can do that.  If teams trap Roy, Miller will be able to capitalize by driving to the rim and either getting an easy bucket or dishing to an open man.  Miller's very presence on the court will make teams wary of double-teaming and trapping Roy. 

I know that Brandon feels more comfortable with Blake at this point, but when it gets to be crunch time and the defense is trying to trap him, he's going to realize what an asset it is to have someone like Miller on the court.  It's imperative that Roy and Miller learn how to play together in these situations. 

I don't care who starts, but Miller should be the guy at PG at the end of any close games. 

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I'm all for what ever unit is going to win.

I just hope Miller isn’t going to make a stink. If he does, I have nothing against trading him. We won 54 without him last year. He’s at the age that guys are usually happier playing less on a winning team than more on a losing team.

My favorite teams are the Blazers and any team that is playing the Lakers.

by OCBlazerFan1 on Oct 23, 2009 8:16 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Miller's a pro

I doubt that he will make a stink. I also think he’ll prove as the season goes along that he deserves more minutes than Blake and will get them.

by UDUB on Oct 23, 2009 8:24 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He is very good.

If he accepts his role, the Blazers will be VERY tough.

My favorite teams are the Blazers and any team that is playing the Lakers.

by OCBlazerFan1 on Oct 23, 2009 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don't think Miller is going to make a stink.

I just think he doesn’t like the fact that he wasn’t given a shot at the starting role. Dudes been a starter since he came into the league (I think) and he probably feels he is better than Blake. That said… he will be able to come in and repair the slow starts that they will undoubtedly have. Andre and Rudy running the floor will be great, though I hope that he gets alot of minutes with LMA and GO…

by tmundal on Oct 23, 2009 9:10 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I hope that he gets alot of minutes with LMA and GO…

It’s hard to envision GO still being in the game, when Miller checks in for Blake at the beginning of each half. Maybe for a minute or two, depending on Greg’s conditioning and foul trouble

When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Oct 23, 2009 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

agreed

I think we’ll see Miller closing most games, and probably getting around 30 minutes a night on average. That’s starter’s minutes, even though he isn’t starting. I love the idea of him keying an up-tempo unit with Martell and Rudy on the wings.

The closing lineup will generally be Miller, Roy, LMA. Oden if he’s playing hot, Joel if we need stops more than buckets. The 5th guy could be any of Rudy, Blake, Batum, or Outlaw depending on matchups, whose got the hot hand that night, and whether we are playing to score or stop.

How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009

by douglast on Oct 23, 2009 9:19 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Maybe Miller will be happy with a 6th MOTY award?

You know Miller can’t be happy. And it must be tough to try and learn to play with a guy (and pass the ball to him) who openly prefers your competition. But hopefully, we bring in him really quickly (ideally, him and Rudy) before the starting 3-4-5 are tired. Because Miller, Rudy, Batum, LMA, and Oden will be a ferocious fast break unit. (Sigh – it’d be so much easier if Roy would just come off the bench… but I know I’m in the minority with that opinion.) Hopefully, by the playoffs, this strife will just be an ancient menory.

by Visionary2 on Oct 23, 2009 9:44 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Miller will be the first guy off the bench most nights

unless Greg gets two quick fouls of course. I see Andre coming in after after the first 6-8 minutes,Joel will come in right after (or with) Andre, likely followed by Martell nearer to the end of the quarter. Roy and LMA will probably play the full first quarter, with Rudy starting the 2nd and LMA staying on a few minutes into the 2nd like he did last year.

The big question for Batum is whether he ever regularly gets back into the game in the 2nd and 4th quarters (not counting the obvious end of game defensive situations). But If Rudy is to even get the minutes he did last year, he’s going to have to stay on the court the full 2nd and 4th quarters, half of that time with Roy in the game as well, so it’s a clear case of these two competing against each other (and Martell and Outlaw) for minutes at the 3 spot in the last 6 minutes of the 2nd and 4th quarters, as I think it will be very rare that we play without either Andre or Steve.

How did you guys win that?
"We scored enough points. We scored 107, they scored 105.
-Nate McMillan Postgame, 3/4/2009

by douglast on Oct 23, 2009 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

before there was the "who starts at PG?" dilemma

there was the “how are Rudy, Batum and Webster going to divvy up 60 mpg?” quagmire

It hasn’t gone away, just to the back burner while Rudy’s been getting poked with needles

When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Oct 23, 2009 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have long been a proponent of Blake starting over Miller...

…but I agree with your premise that in crunch time other teams aggressively work to keep/get the ball out of Roy’s hands and we need a strategy to counter these efforts. Last year we didn’t have one. But is Miller the answer? I hope so. But picture the game scenario. It’s crunch time and Brandon receives the ball for a key possession. The opposing team sends their two guard and small forward – two long, strong defenders – flying at him and keep him from penetrating effectively…

I have two questions at this point: Where do you want Miller during this time? I assume you want him spacing the court to leave the middle open for Brandon. If he is standing on the 3 point line will his defender respect this since he doesn’t shoot 3’s well or will he slide down to help stop Roy or to provide help if the ball goes to LA or Greg down low? If his defender doesn’t respect him on the perimeter, then Andre won’t be effective slashing to the hoop for a pass from Brandon. So where do you want to put him???

I would rather have Brandon with the ball, Aldridge, Oden and two 3-point shooters that the other team MUST respect. It could be Blake, Rudy, Martell, or Outlaw. Pick two.

If you insist on having Miller on the floor then HE must be the primary initial scoring threat. He won’t be double-teamed because of the others on the floor so can take his man off the dribble and attack the paint where he can finish, find Oden or Aldridge for the dunk, or kick the ball out for a three. I would of course have Roy on the court as a decoy and as a deep threat if Miller needs to kick it out to the perimeter.

For me, this scenario is a nice plan “B” to throw in just to keep other teams honest. So we have two crunch time sets, one with Miller and one without.

Am I off target here?

by mlsinpdx on Oct 23, 2009 10:03 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

How about Miller to Oden? Miller to LMA? Miller to Roy spotting up?

Why does Roy always have to handle the ball late? Isn’t that what we got Miller for?

Blazer Fan

by leeroyjenkins on Oct 23, 2009 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes...That's what I mentioned above with Miller

as the primary initial scoring threat. However, if the plan coming out of the huddle is for Brandon to initiate the offense I think having Miller on the floor makes this less effective as his defender can leave him to provide help defense elsewhere.

by mlsinpdx on Oct 23, 2009 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I see the ball in Miller's hands

not as a “primary initial scoring threat”, but as a facilitator. Ideally, we curl Brandon off a screen to get him the ball at mid-range distance. Think it is hard to guard him when he’s out at the 3 point line dribbling the ball? What if he has it at 15 feet from the basket and hasn’t even used his dribble yet?

Oh, and did you notice Greg on the other side of the key, posting down low? You’d better get some help, because he’s just sliding across right now, and Brandon is dumping the ball down to him and, oh, no, he broke the backboard. But that’s ok, because Rudy was wide open in the corner for 3, and two is better than 3.

Once Miller dumps to Brandon at mid-range, he probably slides across to the other side to mid-range, while Rudy runs the baseline for spot up 3s and LMA perhaps sets a screen for Miller and then pops to the high post. You’ve got options everywhere if you want to pass, or Brandon can just, you know, take it in and score like he always does.

I can tell you how to make an Excel spreadsheet that proves Portland wins 62 games this year.

by jscot on Oct 23, 2009 8:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I like Miller penetrating and kicking back to Roy, or out to Rudy, unless

he has a clear advantage to get to the hole. Roy is incredible now in the iso from the 3-pt line, but imagine if his man is simply a step or half-step out of position (because of Miller’s penetration, or feigned penetration) when Miller hits Brandon at his usual spot or a step or two inside the 3-pt line. This is much better than the defense having time to setup against Roy’s iso moves. In the same way, Miller can sometimes draw Rudy’s man off him, and Rudy will be deadly with open 3-pt shots.

I think the key to Miller and Roy playing well together in general is to have Miller draw the defense out of position (which Blake can’t do) and then hit Roy and others with passes. In this way Roy’s basic game doesn’t have to change, it is just easier for him to make his usual moves. In some cases Roy may shoot or start his move after receiving the ball coming off screens, but it would be a terrible mistake for him to try to quickly become a catch and shoot guy. You want to make Roy better at what already makes him the 3rd best SG in the league, not try to turn him into Reggie Miller.

by BlazerFanSince1970 on Oct 24, 2009 12:50 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Here's my guess

I think that, eventually at least, Nate will gravitate toward an end-of-game lineup of Roy, Miller, Fernandez, Aldridge, Oden. Aldridge and Rudy will serve as the long distance shooting threats (along with Roy). Miller will serve as the alternative dribble-penetration threat. And Oden will be the constant inside threat.

Blake’s weakness in this situation is that he isn’t much of a threat to drive and create. If Miller gets a jump on his defender, he is instantly at the basket, at which point he can either score or dish to whoever gets left open by the defenders rushing in to help (most likely Oden). Defenders who leave to trap Roy will not be able to get back to Miller in time to stop him from getting inside.

Miller is also a better defender than Blake (at least marginally).

by UDUB on Oct 23, 2009 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

wrong

Bayless will be the PG at the end of games. There will be no close games, we will blow out every team in the league.
Bayless won´t finish the games against OKC, though, we will end the games with 4 players against them, to avoid injury.

by Falcao on Oct 23, 2009 10:06 AM PDT reply actions   2 recs

awesome!

My favorite teams are the Blazers and any team that is playing the Lakers.

by OCBlazerFan1 on Oct 23, 2009 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sounds about right.

Chuck Norris' tears cure cancer. Too bad he has never cried.

by FiveOhThree-RipCity!! on Oct 23, 2009 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It would sure be nice if we had a PG that could play defense to put in the end of games

Blake is a like a windmill and Miller is probably a little slower in his old age. It’s going to be tough for our big guys down the stretch to avoid fouling opposing guards.

Blazer Fan

by leeroyjenkins on Oct 23, 2009 10:15 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

False

Miller is a godawful point guard in the last 4 minutes of games.

I watched him his entire Denver career and most of Philly and he is just a waste out there at the end of games.

Granted he is better than Blake in many ways but just watch, he will make so many bad passes and take so many bad shots that im predicting the blazers win total actually goes down this season. I was furious with the blazers this offseason for getting Miller for this exact reason.

He gets selfish and irrational at the end of games. Ever wonder why no Andre MIller team has won 50 games? Advanced past the first round of the playoffs? His inability in crunch time is where I point the finger.

Im not saying I wont root for the man, I just wont be suprised when he ruins games in crunch time with a bad pass or a 16-foot fadeaway with 15 seconds left in the shot clock. And neither should you.

by FreeDamon on Oct 23, 2009 10:20 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

So many experts disagree that I can't even begin

Somehow considering Miller was the player who got Philly to the playoffs last season, you either have some other deep-seated reason for disliking Miller or you’re just one of a super-minority.

Blazer Fan

by leeroyjenkins on Oct 23, 2009 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just Watch

Go ahead and talk about what will happen on paper or cite +/- numbers and “expert” opinions.

Andre will be a huge asset to the Blazers with the second unit as Sergio 2.0 and also as a new wrinkle with the first unit to keep defenses honest. He will do things that Steve Blake can never dream of. However,

The man is not clutch.

He will take the ball out of the hands Brandon/Rudy/Travis and do his own thing because of his “veteran” and self-proclaimed “top-ten” status. We have already heard reports from Ben about his risk-taking and bad shot selection late in games. Andre says he knows this is BRoys team, but I don’t know if he is ready to accept it.

by FreeDamon on Oct 23, 2009 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

We'll see

My sense it that Miller took more shots at the end of games on other teams because he wasn’t surrounded by as many quality scorers. His role at the end of Blazer games will be to keep defenses honest by providing another dribble penetration threat. If Roy sees the trap coming, he can dump it to Miller. Miller can drive to the hoop and either score or dish it to whoever is left open when the defense collapse on him.

by UDUB on Oct 23, 2009 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

In theory I think you are right however

I don’t think it is quite that simple. Think about how Brandon breaks down defenders. He takes his time with the ball. He crosses over. He starts and stops. He sets up the defender(s) then he goes to the hoop. That’s how he is so effective. So to just tell him, “If you see the trap coming, dump it to Miller” you are taking the ball away from him before he has a chance to operate. See what I mean? He has to have an opportunity to survey the defense and try to break it down before he decides whether to try to score or dish it off to someone else. When he is playing this way, having Miller on the floor is a detriment compared to a 3-point threat like Blake, Webster, or Rudy because his defender will come to help on Roy or help to clog the middle.

That’s why we need to have two options. Miller as the attacker with the ball with Roy as the decoy and Roy as the attacker with Miller on the bench and the floor spread WIDE OPEN with Oden, LA, (and two 3-point shooters).

Does that make sense?

by mlsinpdx on Oct 23, 2009 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

you could be right

It’s hard to know until you actually see it play out in real life. Personally, I don’t think defenders will play Miller that differently than Blake. He may not be able to shoot the three with any consistency, but he’s not Rajon Rondo either. He’s an effective mid-range shooter. And his ability to drive and create will make his defender reluctant to leave him to trap Roy. I don’t think Miller’s man will have the luxury of leaving him to trap or playing significantly off of him and clogging the lane.

We’ll see though. I have no doubt that Miller and Roy will log some significant playing time together this year. During those stretches, I’m sure the defense will try to trap Roy from time to time. That should give us (pretty quickly) a good empirical test of which backcourt lineup is superior in the trapping context. My guess is that Miller is better in this situation than Blake, but you may be right. Time will tell.

by UDUB on Oct 23, 2009 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Brandon was effective

closing games with Jarrett Jack as the other guard. Jarrett wasn’t much of a three point threat, his primary strength was taking it to the hoop and drawing fouls.

Miller is similar, though better.

I can tell you how to make an Excel spreadsheet that proves Portland wins 62 games this year.

by jscot on Oct 23, 2009 8:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am excited about the starting lineup

even with Blake starting over Miller. I feel Miller will play more because of his ability to make Greg Oden better, and as this season progresses I believe Oden will become more of a center point of the Blazers offense. I believe we will see Blake start and play about 8 mins, the Miller will come in after Blake has established Roy and LMA, and feed Greg the ball in the post. As good as Miller is at feeding the big man, I see him and Greg playing together alot this year. Greg needs to be on the court 30+ mins a game this year, maybe not at the beginning, although I hope he is, but at the end of the season Greg better be or else this team just will not be as good as it can be.

by usmcr3049 on Oct 23, 2009 10:39 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

play about 8 mins, the Miller will come in after Blake has established Roy and LMA, and feed Greg the ball in the post.

How oftern do you think Oden will be in the game at the 8,9,10 minute period of the 1st-3rd quarters? Not often. Greg may be subbed back for Joel in during the 2nd-4th quarters, and then he’ll get to play alongisde Andre, for awhile

but not nearly as much as he would if they were both starting the game

When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Oct 23, 2009 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good points. Yes time will tell.

Here’s how I analyze this. What would I do if I were the other team to stop the Blazers if they had B-Roy and Miller on the floor together. My comments above are a reflection of what I would try to do to stop them. I am excited to see how things play out!

by mlsinpdx on Oct 23, 2009 12:50 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

"1-4" ISO late game offense

Roy at the top of the key

wings in the corners, bigs on the blocks

If Andre was in the game, he would be in the corner. Sure, his man will “cheat off” Miller a bit, but there are defensive “3 seconds” rules that prevent this defender from leaving Andre all alone for too long.

If the opponent “sends” a player to double team Roy, it would probably be either Miller’s man, or the other wing play in the corner (Rudy, Martell, etc) They can pick their poison. It will be up to Roy to recognize which player is open and pass the ball. If it’s Miller who’s left open and he gets the pass, he will be looking at a baseline drive against a big defender and a 2-on-1 situation where he can score, get fouled or dish.

I’d like to see this scenario develop as a deterrent for other teams trapping Roy

When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Oct 23, 2009 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

another point that Quick made today

during an interview with Wheels, Jason pulled out this stat

Miller shot 409 FTs last year. Blake shot 75

let that sink in awhile…

Sergio wasn’t getting to the line much, either. Andre adds an element the Blazers haven’t had at the PG for quite a long time. A guy who can draw fouls and make FTs down the stretch. He can get the other team into the penalty earlier in quarters 2-4. If Portland can win the FT battle at home and stay close when on the road, it will mean more Ws by the end of the year

and it will be more valuable in the playoffs

When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Oct 23, 2009 7:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd agree, but...

What makes you think Roy would let Miller play in crunch time when he didn’t want to play with him in the first quarter? It’s not like they can magically work together in the end of games as opposed to the beginning.

Like it or not, we’re stuck with Blake in the beginning and the end for a while.

by xedubx on Oct 23, 2009 1:43 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Two things

First, Brandon’s a pro and he’ll play with whomever Nate puts in the game.

Second, Brandon’s a smart guy. If he notices that teams trap him less (or are less effective at trapping him) when Miller is in the game, he’ll want Miller to play with him more often.

by UDUB on Oct 23, 2009 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He will play with whooever Nate puts in the game

but Andre is not starting because him and Brandon are not playing well together…yet. I agree with xedubx . If Nate and Roy want Blake starting because of chemistry issues, it would be a terrible idea to have Miller playing with Roy when the game is on the line. Roy and Miller have yet to figure out how to coexist, and it would most likely be even worse in crunch time.

"The difference between a democracy and a dictatorship is that in a democracy you vote first and take orders later; in a dictatorship you don't have to waste your time voting"

"I don't like jail, they got the wrong kind of bars in there"
Charles Bukowski

by jpaulson on Oct 24, 2009 9:06 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

There still shouldn't be a "second unit"

I am glad to see Nate is making the right call and starting Blake. Miller and Rudy should play well together. However, whenever the Blazers go to something approaching a “second unit” (which probably won’t be a true “unit” of five guys), they need to keep either LMA or Oden on the court to provide a low post threat. If Nate puts Przy on the court with Outlaw at the four, sans Roy, that unit still does not have enough offensive firepower and will get outplayed regularly.

Gotta have a guard who can drive and a low post threat on the floor at all times.

Q: Is Greg favoring his knee?
Frye: He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors.

by KP Corleone on Oct 23, 2009 3:01 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Nice Post! Rec

I am surprised that no one else is reccing this.

by LaoTzu on Oct 23, 2009 6:34 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Patience will be required ...

… because I think there’s going to be an adjustment period that will last anywhere from a month to just about the whole season. I still look at this year as the final year of development, and the championship window opens next year. During that adjustment period, I expect the Blazers to win at about a 50-win-season pace. These players we have are just too talented, both physically and mentally, to fail. Once they get it figured out, it’s all going to fall into place and we’ll be enjoying a 60+ win/season pace.

by scottacoma on Oct 23, 2009 11:19 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Scottacoma has it about right.

Quick’s interview with Roy confirms some of the thinking I see posted here. Roy and Miller both like the ball in their hands, and both realize they are in a period of adjustment, and need time to work it out. We tend to forget that Blake and Roy also had a period when both needed time to learn to play to each other’s strengths, as well as to compromise on who has the ball when. In a practical sense, Miller needs to move from being purely a point guard to more of a combo guard – and likely will. But this will take some time. Miller does, after all, bring a very good scoring and penetrating skill set to the team, just as his pick and roll and passing skills improves Oden and our interior game. And there will be times when we want those skills on the floor with Roy. At the same time, Blake’s 3-pt shooting spreads the floor, and right now we also need that, as Webster is still not 100% and Batum is only in his second year. Ironically, Blake’s shooting opens up the interior game more, yet Andre’s passing facilitates Oden’s play as well. Just as happened with Blake during his first season with the Blazers, I suspect that as this year progresses, that we’ll see improved chemistry between Roy and Miller, and very likely see Miller starting some games, or playing increased minutes- whoever starts. Certainly, we’d like to see his passing on the floor with Oden, and how we mix it together will be one of the year’s top stories. At the wing, Webster, has to get his consistency back to break into the starting rotation, and even then, if Batum’s shot continue’s to improve as it did in Euro ball, his defense may well ensure that he still starts many games – particularly when the match ups on the wing warrant it. By mid-season, the Blake-Miller and Batum-Webster staring issues may become increasingly dependent on the match-ups.

Mac is right to let the players gel. And to take time to do so. Webster’s back – but not 100%, and Miller is new and still both learning our plays and working it out with Roy.
Roy also commented that he recognized that he and Aldridge also need to adjust.
Adding Webster and Miller, as well as watching the improvements of Oden and Batum make this team deeper – and provides more scoring options. – which we’ll want to use. And that will affect the number of shots that Roy and Aldridge will be able to take.

So, let the season begin.

by Eben Calder on Oct 24, 2009 7:29 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs


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