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The starters stay, I'll tell you why



The decision to go with the starters from last year has many up in arms and fans doubting management, but there is a reason and i will tell you why i think this is the right move...for now

First off, I completely agree that Miller and GO have outplayed their counterparts in every way so far. However the team has been completely out of sync and has virtually zero chemistry. Clearly Roy and Miller havent hit stride by any means and seem to fit the dilema that most had going into the season: Miller and Roy's games dont mesh well. Miller is a scoring point guard (now he certainly can distribute and is an excellent passer). He draws his strength off of taking what the D gives him and driving to the basket. He is a pg that likes to ball dominate and has had considerable success doing so. My question to everyone is why force that to change? Why change a gameplan that won 54 games last year and why force Roy to become an off the ball player? clearly that is not something he is comfortable doing and why not cater to our best player's strength?

So Boo Hoo that Miller cant start, Blake (although he has been downright aweful in the preseason) is a better complimentary guard to Roy than Miller. I am of the opinion that the lineups you use do not have to all be segregated by talent alone. If you were going to put our 5 best on the floor together it would clearly include Miller and GO, but  that doesnt compliment the personnel we have. If you start Miller, Roy, Batum, LA and Greg you are left with Blake, Rudy, Martell, Travis and Joel. Basically 4 three point shooters and a rebounder who has vertually no offensive ability. So the opposing D mans up and forces our guys to put it on the floor. Not to mention there is not a single guy on that squad that can create his own shot...With the exception of Travis jacking up fadeaways. 

  The balance is all off. But if you are to mix and match those lineups, you all of a sudden have players that can compliment each other, guys on each squad that can create for themselves and others, and can set up outside shooters. All the while keeping your most offensive minded players blended between each lineup.

I am endorsing and have been in favor of Nate's decision from jump. If we start Blake, Roy, Batum, LA and Joel we have two servicable 3 point shooters, defensive presence with Nick and Joel both on the perimeter and inside, we dont have a jam up for touches with our top guys...This way Brandon and LA get the majority of the offense, which i should add is a proven winner. the White team with Miller, Rudy, Martell, Travis/Howard, Greg now has a pg that can lead the team while dominating the ball and flow, you have an up and down tempo team and also a very deadly inside out game. Basically you have two very different looks you can throw at the opponent and also create two lineups with the most balance.

I am not saying this is gospel, but this is how we should start the year. Things are always subject to change, but thats the beauty of it. We can move guys around after the first quarter and play different lineups based on the what teams are going to give us. But clearly playing a lineup with "the best" players has not worked very well so far, granted its only been a couple games. But history has shown that teams with too many ball dominant players dont mesh well, players get disgruntled (not that this would automatically happen), they get out of rhythym and thier comfort zones and everything struggles. If we start our best, then we are putting out a backup team with very little defense and many players who essentially do the same things. its good to have a scorer, a three point shooter or two, a scoring presence down low and a complementary pg to involve the main offensive players. This way (Nates way) we have that, good balance. If we go the other way we have 4 guys on the first team that need touches for thier rhythym and then one other guy (Batum) that will just be standing out of the way while the 4 try to alter thier play for the others and then you have 4 guys on the bench that will come in and all stand around waiting for someone to penetrate and kick to them for threes (all of them!). the second unit becomes completly one dimensional and its very easy to defend a one dimensional team in the NBA. 

For all the talk about how all a team has to do is shut down Roy and we are stuck (i.e. the playoffs last year), well if that happens we will just have to mix up our lineups for that matchup. But on the whole its very very hard to contain Brandon and there are only a few elite defensive teams that can. So really if it comes down to that we can make alterations, but the majority of the time these lineups simply balance our roster better.

Poll
What do you want out of your Blazers two units?
Balance
60 votes
Best 5, Second Best 5
52 votes
Other (explain)
14 votes

126 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 29 comments  |  2 recs  | 

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Units are for practice

This isn’t hockey.

5 with most potential to succeed with smart subbing, one or two at a time- just long enough to rest the starters until they can go back in!

by rpresto2 on Oct 21, 2009 5:42 PM PDT reply actions  

Blake yes, Joel no

Start Oden along with last year’s starters. I’m not sure why you don’t think he’s a fit with the other starters. There’s a good case that Blake+Roy > Miller+Roy, at least at the start of the season.

But Oden’s a different story — he’s a great fit with Roy, Aldridge and Blake, and opponents won’t be able to handle him, at least not without leaving other players open. Later in the game, play Miller + Rudy + Webster + Oden, spacing the floor and setting up Oden as a scoring threat. Then sub in Przybilla when ready. I think Oden’s absolutely the starter.

by Kaboomm on Oct 21, 2009 5:47 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Exactly.

What does Joel bring that Oden doesn’t? Even if all you want out of the centers on offense is putbacks and garbage points, Oden does that more effectively than Joel. And other teams can’t ignore Oden the way the can Joel, it opens the game up for Roy, LMA, etc.

If you want to start Blake then so be it. I understand the chemistry argument. Hopefully the Roy and Miller get it together sooner rather than later, but if it takes a while then maybe Blake is the answer in the short term.

I wouldn’t want to sacrifice early wins so Roy and Miller can figure it out on the fly?

by StuckeyDuck on Oct 21, 2009 6:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

i HIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHLY disagree my good blazer friend...

oden needs someone who can feed him the ball inside and when you have a penetrator like andre miller who can slash the lane they have to respect him and the decisions that he will have to make cus he has rudy and outlaw on the perimeter and you got oden who’s gonna be free when the defense collapses on him. oden is at his best when he has a ball dominating point guard.

by Fila429 on Oct 21, 2009 10:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think you're right

But I also think you’re describing Brandon Roy. Plus, Blake is just fine at feeding the low post, in general.

In theory, Miller should indeed be good for Greg, but I wouldn’t put Greg on the bench because Miller is there. I would start Greg to put a little fear into the opponents. The way he’s playing, he’s going to either dominate in the middle or get double-teamed to the benefit of Roy and Aldridge.

by Kaboomm on Oct 22, 2009 5:02 AM PDT up reply actions  

Moreover,

it doesn’t mean Miller and Oden won’t have minutes together. That can be arranged.

by Kaboomm on Oct 22, 2009 5:04 AM PDT up reply actions  

I highly disagree...

“But I also think you’re describing Brandon Roy. Plus, Blake is just fine at feeding the low post, in general.”

Neither Roy nor Blake have a clue about how to hit a big man rolling to the hoop with a 10’ lob pass. They proved that last year, many, many times (my overriding vision of last year is Oden moving to the hoop, hands raised, wide open… and not getting the ball.,.)

Dre will show them how to hit Greg off t he pick and roll.

by Visionary2 on Oct 22, 2009 8:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

I assume the reason Greg didn't get the ball

was that Nate made that decision. (Wrongly, in my opinion, but I’m not the coach.) Greg was a regular option in the offense during preseason, then he got injured, then they never ran a play for him again.

by Kaboomm on Oct 22, 2009 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

Because you want to start every game down 8 - 15 points?

Yeah keeping your best players on the bench is good stuff. How’s Roy’s diaper fitting?

Blazer Fan

by leeroyjenkins on Oct 21, 2009 6:45 PM PDT reply actions  

I understand the argument for starting Blake over Miller, at least until Roy and Miller develop more chemistry.

But a decision to start Joel over Greg would be just insane at this point. Greg is the franchise center, period. You don’t bench you franchise center, especially when he is consistently outplaying the guy behind him.

by dario argento on Oct 21, 2009 6:49 PM PDT reply actions  

Start the best 5

Our 1st quarter offense should be like this.
post Oden
post LMA
post Oden
post LMA
post Andre
post Oden etc. I am over simplifying a little but try to get the other team in foul trouble by attacking the basket with impunity.Roy will get his & in the 4th quarter of a close game that is BRoy time! IMHO

"BEER IS LIVING PROOF THAT GOD LOVES US"
- Benjamin Franklin-

by We-B-Dunkin on Oct 22, 2009 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

start greg

but andre makes some sense as 6th man who will hopefully mesh well with rudy (who we haven’t seen).

i’m actually most worried now about SF. last year we had batum and then outlaw — who scored about 13/game. now batum may be worn out from year-round play, martell has shown nothing, and travis’ confidence seems entirely gone.

martell may play a mean game of HORSE, but it would be nice to see him hit some shots in a game. if you subtracted lay-ups and dunks, what would his shooting % be? .08?

ignacio

by ignacio on Oct 21, 2009 7:22 PM PDT reply actions  

Dre was always been a slow starter

Fine let him start slow off the bench,I do think Dre, Rudy and Martell could be a potent combo. Greg has played well enough to have earned the starting role

by southern oregon on Oct 21, 2009 7:53 PM PDT reply actions  

Interesting, I've made the same point about Roy...

He always seems to start slow (put in a good light by saying he “defers” to his teammates early)…

by Visionary2 on Oct 22, 2009 8:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

Other (explain)

It isn’t the best 5 individuals or the most balance. It’s the most effective use of the franchise players, Roy, Oden and Aldridge in that order. I think they all need to start, and Blake and Batum help get the best out of them.

by Kaboomm on Oct 21, 2009 8:23 PM PDT reply actions  

I could be wrong

but I don’t think many championship contenders have two of there top 5 guys coming off the bench one maybe (spurs, Mavs) but 2, no way

Trade players for picks and draft Cole Aldrich 2010

by jlarose78 on Oct 21, 2009 8:48 PM PDT reply actions  

Great post!

I’ve been on board with that exact plan for a month… The best players will still get more minutes overall. It is obvious that splitting Roy and Miller and having a play-maker on the floor at all times is going to be better for the team, and make things harder for the opponent.
I cannot believe that people do not comprehend that. Miller will make the bench the most productive and feared bench in the NBA.
Everyone just needs to play their hardest (on offense & defense) during their time on the court, and the limited minutes will become a blessing. We will wear teams out. Roy, Blake and LA provide the scoring to start the game. Miller, Rudy, Martell, Trav & Greg will be unstoppable… Miller would make that squad run teams out of gas quick. Then Nate can mix them together as needed. This is the best way to use this deep, awesome roster that KP has put together. There will also be enough blow-outs to let the rest of the bench get some run. Our guys will see this works well, and embrace it… Kind of a Dean Smith/UNC approach.

by Rick_D on Oct 21, 2009 9:24 PM PDT reply actions  

Nate creates a contradiction

Saying that who starts is not important, but then creating all this seeming drama around who starts. Not very smart.

by Blazin' on Oct 21, 2009 10:54 PM PDT reply actions  

No five players will always play together

Every man in our rotation needs to be at least somewhat comfortable with every other man in the rotation. If it comes to playoff time and we’ve only got eight players consistently playing, those mixes and matches are going to happen.

by Seven06Renault on Oct 22, 2009 1:21 AM PDT reply actions  

So your point is....

So your point is….Because Blake is not that good and can’t play with the second unit, that he should start?

I think you are undervauling Blake and his talent. He is one of the best backup PG in the league.

This is why he needs to be a back up and not a starter.

Blazers NBA champs 2010-2011!

by The Earl of Dunk on Oct 22, 2009 9:29 AM PDT reply actions  

Thats not what i am saying at all

what i am saying about Blake is that he spreads the floor for Brandon, is an effective three-point shooter and is a pg who doesnt need the ball to be effective. Brandon and LA need to have the ball in there hands for 90% of the time on the offensive end, leaving Blake to spot up. Miller is not a spot up player and Brandon needs players around him that stretch the D and keep it honest. what would happen with Miller and Brandon is that Miller’s guy would sag off of him and help clog up the middle for Roy’ s penetration. That is why Blake is a better “fit”.

My whole point is that its all about fit and complimenting our stars. I also agree that Greg could be very effective starting and he probably should just for his confidence…but he would be a monster with that second team.

by SuperFan #7 on Oct 22, 2009 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

Good in theory but...

not in execution. The Houston series should have cured anyone of the idea that this offensive idea is one you can win a championship with, at least with these players. Houston ran a million defenders at Brandon, and Blake didn’t spread the floor or keep the defense honest.

by Hawthorne Wingo on Oct 22, 2009 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions  

Thats right oh E O D

also last year Nate tried to keep Roy or LMA on the court at all times. This year it should be two of Roy or Andre with LMA or Oden at all times thats 1 penetrator with 1 post up player always on the floor together. The rest are mix & match as matchups determine.

"BEER IS LIVING PROOF THAT GOD LOVES US"
- Benjamin Franklin-

by We-B-Dunkin on Oct 22, 2009 4:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

But...

Blake and Roy have looked awful together this preseason. The best stretch of the preseason — the end of the Denver game — was with Miller, Roy and Oden on the floor together. Despite the rampant chemistry problems. The worst stretch was the start of the Utah game, with Roy and Blake together. Despite the awesome chemistry advantages.

It seems like everyone expects Roy and Miller to have chemistry problems, so they see it whether it’s there or not. They haven’t looked great together, but that’s been true of every lineup combination we’ve put on the floor. Can anyone honestly say that the team has looked worse with Roy and Miller on the floor together? Did you see the start of the Utah game? And can we acknowledge the possibility that the league is catching up to the Roy-Blake two-man game? Like Houston did in the playoffs?

And if Roy and Miller need to work together, wouldn’t that have been a good use of these stupid preseason games? Isn’t the important thing to get them clicking as soon as possible? So that our offense against good teams playing playoff defense will be a little more diverse?

There are sometimes good reasons for bringing one of your best 5 guys off the bench, but it’s pretty rare, and it’s generally a scorer. The longer this goes on, the less it looks like it has anything to do with this basketball team. I’m sorry Nate’s feelings were hurt when Gary Payton was given the keys to the kingdom, but can we all move on and play the best guys together, please?

by Hawthorne Wingo on Oct 22, 2009 9:43 AM PDT reply actions  

Nate's flip flopping

has really turned this preseason into a mess. Either before camp, or at the latest after the first 2 preseason games Nate should have named his starters and then proceeded to start them every game to let him build chemistry together. (even though injuries didn’t let that happen, at that point everyone was still healthy). It should have been crystal clear to Nate after training came, and a few games that Miller and Oden were the better players, and that he needed to get them court time with Roy and LMA to build this years team chemistry.

Instead Nate waffled on an easy decision and now has a team with no chemistry, no flow, and everyone questioning their role, instead of everyone knowing what their role will be, even if they didn’t like that role. If you don’t think this is a good idea, just take a look at the other “contenders” and what they have done during the preseason.

Boston – They had one big FA to work in, Wallace. What did they do? Started same 5 from last year, worked in Wallace off the bench for about 20-25 mins from game 1 of the preseason. Only 2 games did they not start the same 5.
L@kers – They had to work in 1 new starter. What did they do? Started Artest from game 1, played the same starting 5 in every game they could, (injuries took Gasol and Odom out of a game or two).
Cavs - They had to work in Shaq and Parker to their starting 5, What did they do? Started them every game with James and company that they could, (the flu took them out a game or two plus injuries) from game 1.
Magic – They had Vince to work in, what did they do? Started him from game 1, rested some starters here and there.
Spurs - They had Jefferson and McDyess to work in, what did they do? They would be the closest to the Blazers, as only in their last game did they start their projected starting 5, but they are an older team, and have rested most of their main players throughout the preseason. Jefferson has started every game but 1 while McDyess has been moved around more.

Almost all of the championship contending teams have had to add in one or more pieces, and yet almost all of them have done so from the beginning, making the decisions early in camp and moving forward. Meanwhile Nate has dragged his feet until now we are on the cusp of the season and he still have not told the team what their roles are. That is not how a team should integrate new pieces.

by usmcr3049 on Oct 22, 2009 12:15 PM PDT reply actions  

I also don't understand the theory that the only way to play off of Roy is to spot up.

To me it is foolish to leave a penetrator & passer of Andre Millers ability unguarded to double team if they are going to leave anyone at this point it would be Nic not Andre. If your scrambling to recover to someone with the handles & court vision of Andre Miller you are in deep trouble.

"BEER IS LIVING PROOF THAT GOD LOVES US"
- Benjamin Franklin-

by We-B-Dunkin on Oct 22, 2009 5:09 PM PDT reply actions  

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