Continuing To Think Long Term…. What We Have Learned From The Travis Outlaw Situation?
by KINGofMACct on Oct 20, 2009 11:24 AM PDT
37 comments
I will use a combination of the poll results and comments from yesterday's post in an attempt to synthesize how Blazers' fans feel about the way TO is used by the coaching staff. It is my hope that we will continue to think about these things in a rational fashion without condescension or name calling. It is important for our sanity that we take a balanced approach to TO and the coaching staff rather than just criticize them or become angry with them or with each other.
What did we fans say about the future of Travis Outlaw and the team's strategies after taking a closer look into the TO situation?
- There appears to be a substantial difference of opinion between the coaching staff and the fan base as to how Travis should be used.
- Many want to see Travis in another uniform, while others see his value and want to see him used as a hit and run type of player. If he is going well right away he plays, if not, he comes out.
- Almost everyone sees that he can hit big shots, but they also see that he is one dimensional and often hurts the team during his time on the floor when he is not scoring in bunches.
- Many think his one-on-one style has a generalized negative effect on team play and that this is in direct conflict with the team dynamic which deserves more emphasis.
- Travis will never become anything that truly resembles a point forward.
- Travis is being mishandled to a certain extent. It is not all his fault.
- Other players like Andre, Rudy, Nic, and Jerryd need to be given more opportunities to create for themselves and others.
- Greg and Lamarcus need to be given the ball more down low, especially in the fourth quarters of games (even if they are doubled and become mostly decoys at that point, we need to develop them as more of a threat).
- Pick and roll, man and ball movement, and the like need to take a more prominent role in our late game strategy.
- The fan base may be somewhat apathetic and worn down by their confusion with team management on this issue, with one poster going so far as to say, "If they play Travis a lot this year, it is just to increase his trade value."
- Fans feel that there are some changes in order when it comes to the over utilized, unimaginative, one-on-one offensive philosophy of the Portland Trailblazers.
- We need to pick up the pace of our offense even in half court sets (conditioning?).
- In the future we need to look for scorers who can pass and passers who can score. I.e. more well rounded players. (This is not the first time this has happened to us. We can name other players from our past rosters and our present roster as well. It becomes a real problem when a, "role player," gets too big of a role.)
What did I miss? Can we look into the future and see the needs of the team more clearly? What do you think?
0 recs |
37 comments
Email
Print
Comments
Travis is a good teammate...
…a good guy… and has been part of one of the most successful rebuilding jobs, on and of the court, in the NBA.
He is a player of amazing athletic talent, who at times could use it better and he has been a last minute hero for us several times as a Trailblazer.
He has also been one of the most criticized and critiqued players in recent Blazer history… in the same class as Steve Blake in that regard.
However it plays out I wish him the best and appreciate the time he’s been a Blazer. Like Channing Frye I will pull for him wherever he plays unless they’re playing Portland.
Beyond that…and I don’t mean to sound disrespectful when I say this… I think this is a little redundant.
I just want to start the season and see how it develops.
GO BLAZERS!!!
by Ilikeemall on Oct 20, 2009 12:45 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I would agree with you
that it is a little redundant and that the TO situation has been addressed many times—usually with him as the target. This time I wanted to see if people could take a broader look and see that due to his obvious limitations his problems on the floor are not all his fault. For that reason I though a second post was necessary to help clairify the point.
With that said, I am quite surprised with how the poll is going at this point with most of the blame being put on Travis again. I just don’t quite see it that way even though he causes me to pull my hair out at times as well.
A lot of people seem to think that getting rid of Travis is going to fix many of our problems. I happen to think that our problems are a lot broader than TO. People seem to be blocking out how players are set up.
There is more to an athlete than how fast they can run, they also better be able to see what they are doing and know why they are doing it.
by KINGofMACct on Oct 20, 2009 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
A lot of people seem to think that getting rid of Travis is going to fix many of our problems.
A lot of people thought it was time to trade Jarrett Jack, as well. That deal didn’t “solve” the Blazer’s PG problem, but it did open up PT for Rudy and lead to the internal debate to further update the PG position which led to the Andre Miller signing
One of the Blazer’s “problems” was/is front court depth and toughness in the playoffs. If “subtracting” Outlaw leads to solving the need for a backup PF banger, then the end result will justify the means
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Oct 20, 2009 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I see the merit of your point
especially if the management group is too emotionally involved or undisciplined. My hope would be that if we were to trade him that we would get equal value and fill a need for the team better rather than just unload him for the sake of clearing a roster spot. Following your scenario, I can see him possibly ending up like Sergio. At times I feel like this team is leaking talent rather than making the best use of it.
There is more to an athlete than how fast they can run, they also better be able to see what they are doing and know why they are doing it.
by KINGofMACct on Oct 20, 2009 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's the rarely-mentioned "dark" side of creating a "family culture"
mama doesn’t want to kick the 40 year-old son out of the basement
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Oct 20, 2009 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Exactly.
How many times have we been through this?
I got so much crap when I said I thought Jack and Jones should be let go to help ease the logjam. After we drafted Bayless a few posters (including myself) suggested using him in a trade to net a more established player. Our reasoning being that Bayless has tons of potential, but the Blazers don’t have the time to wait. People freaked out, one poster going as far to say…
You are going to make me vomit… DEVIN HARRIS IS NOT THAT GREAT. He’s a rich mans Rajon Rondo with a decent 3pt shot. Pencil him in for 14-16 points a night and 6 assists. That’s all he is. he cannot single handidly stop Davis, Cp, or any of those players. Honestly Bayless will probably be as good as Harris in a year or two.
It’s the same thing with Outlaw. He isn’t going to work in the role he has and all the reasons are obvious. He isn’t an ideal fit for this team just like Jarrett Jack, James Jones, Channing Frye, Ike Diogu, Taurean Green, Sabastian Telfair, etc.
It’s not that I hate Outlaw, I just love the Blazers and currently they are engaged in an unhealthy relationship. Let it go. Stop the madness.
by Nick Van Excellent on Oct 20, 2009 5:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is almost certainly Travis' last season as a Blazer
I like Travis and I think he has filled an important void for the Blazers the last few years. Other than Roy and LaMarcus, he was the only other guy on the team who could create his own shot, which made him a valuable bench contributor.
But with Miller now on the team, we have another player who can create his own shot, and if Nate rotates his players wisely, there’s no reason why either Roy or Miller can’t be on the court at all times. And let’s face it, Miller is a much more complete player than Outlaw. He can create shots for himself and for others.
So the Blazers have less need for what Outlaw brings to the table, and with his contract expiring, it seems exceedingly unlikely that Outlaw will be a Blazer next year.
Personally, I think the Blazers need to thin the roster. I would look to trade Outlaw and Blake (and their expiring contracts) prior to the trading deadline with the goal of getting a solid backup PF. If Howard/Pendergraph/Cunningham look good enough take the backup PF minutes, I would consider bundling Bayless with Outlaw and Blake and trying to get a long-term PG (maybe Kirk Hinrich or—if Toronto gets desperate—Jose Calderon).
by UDUB on Oct 20, 2009 12:58 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
If Travis is traded,
do you think he will have more success somewhere else? Or will he merely disappear into the sunset?
There is more to an athlete than how fast they can run, they also better be able to see what they are doing and know why they are doing it.
by KINGofMACct on Oct 20, 2009 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Depends on the situation
Travis is a talented player whose skills would be useful to a number of teams. Whether or not he’s traded mid-season, he’ll be a free agent at the end of the season. Someone will want what he has to offer. He’ll be okay. He’ll get a decent offer.
by UDUB on Oct 20, 2009 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If I read you correctly,
you are saying Travis could be more successful in other situations.
There is more to an athlete than how fast they can run, they also better be able to see what they are doing and know why they are doing it.
by KINGofMACct on Oct 20, 2009 3:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with this.
I’d say that there isn’t a role for Travis on this team that will be acceptable to both him and the team, long-term.
You can measure skill and talent with your eyes, but productivity is shown through statistics.
by austinpwnz on Oct 20, 2009 3:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not that there is any guarantee that it is going to happen,
but what if Travis was willing to accept a lesser, situational, role on this team, what would you think then?
There is more to an athlete than how fast they can run, they also better be able to see what they are doing and know why they are doing it.
by KINGofMACct on Oct 20, 2009 4:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
he wants to get paid
I think his tweets made that pretty clear, this summer. Outlaw fancies himself as a future all-star, with offensive (shooting) skills to burn
Veteran role players are a good thing to have on a contending team, but Travis is too young to “morph” into that kind of player, right now. This is his contract year, so it’s the worst possible time for him to play and shoot less
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Oct 20, 2009 4:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I picked the first option
But I don’t think all of Outlaw’s limitations are due to him being lazy. Even if he weren’t lazy, I don’t think Outlaw has as much potential as some of the other players on the Blazers roster (Roy, Oden, Aldridge, Batum, Rudy, etc.)
by trk on Oct 20, 2009 2:04 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
If Travis is traded,
do you think he will have more success somewhere else? Or will he merely disappear into the sunset?
There is more to an athlete than how fast they can run, they also better be able to see what they are doing and know why they are doing it.
by KINGofMACct on Oct 20, 2009 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He'll score more if he is on a bad team
I don’t see him ever becoming more than a role player for a top team.
by trk on Oct 20, 2009 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
For a guy that KP didn't even draft
the Blazer’s staff has sure held onto Outlaw a lot longer than I expected
Like I said back in July, the writing on the wall has been so clear, even Stevie Wonder could read it. Who was the Blazer’s #1 FA target? Hedo, a 3/4 forward, like Travis. When Turk bolted to Toronto, who did KP try to sign next? Millsap, a forward to backup LMA. The Blazers also made offseason overtures to Lee and Odom.
At the beginning of training camp I had some probing questions for Mr. Outlaw, but no local reporters were willing to broach these subjects on media day. But that doesn’t matter now, because we got all the “answers” we needed by watching (or hearing about) Trav’s play during the preseason. This is a young man who doesn’t handle “pressure” well, at least not on the court. The ‘09 playoffs revealed this. Who can forget the scene of Joel having to restrain Outlaw after he was yelled at by Nate for letting a Rocket go baseline? #25 has had a nice, relaxed 6 years of development in a relatively peaceful rebuilding environment but the time for the “green light to shoot” that he has enjoyed thus far, is over. The rest of the team has “grown up” and more BBIQ is expected from every rotation player. The W-L stakes are higher, the going is “getting tough” There’s no more room for excuses, only playoff results
Nate said Trout is “trying to find his rhythm” and that “we know what he is” If the Blazer’s front office really know “what they’ve got” at backup PF, why were they trying to acquire another veteran, last July? Why keep up the pretense that Travis is a “keeper”? What explanation other than “they’re planning on trading him, so they have to play him” will suffice?
My question to KP is, why keep players around well past the peak of their trade value? Since there’s excessive depth at the wing position, why wait to make a deal until a player’s worth has further diminished, around the league? The Blazer’s front office has “telegraphed” their plan to replace Outlaw since the end of last season, it’s never been a well-kept secret. So, don’t keep stringing the players and the fans along, identify a trade partner and pull the trigger
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Oct 20, 2009 2:53 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
It is easy to accept your basis and follow your reasoning,
but somehow like you say, their actions still don’t quite make sense. Is it possible that they think holding on to him will increase his value rather than decrease it? Or are they still hoping that Travis is magically going to turn into this great scorer? Maybe Brandon’s best buddy influence? Something appears to be missing from our equasion that has not yet been made public?
There is more to an athlete than how fast they can run, they also better be able to see what they are doing and know why they are doing it.
by KINGofMACct on Oct 20, 2009 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder how much influence The Owner in our favorite organiziatin really wields...
pure unbridled “what if” conjecture…
"The match in Los Angeles is a good opportunity to begin to demonstrate that we want to make war." Rudy Fernández (translated)
by G_dubs on Oct 20, 2009 10:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was an Outlaw believer for a long time.
His speed, length, explosiveness, and overall athletic ability make him a player that you absolutely have to give a chance to develop. I don’t BLAME anyone for this situation. It is what it is. Travis was a role player last year that was instrumental in creating mismatches in the second unit and provided a scoring punch, as well as hitting some clutch shots in end-of game situations. That was his role and not much else.
We didn’t ask him to play fundamental basketball. We didn’t ask him to remember to box his man out, to rotate on defense, or to even REMEMBER what defensive scheme we were in. I know we didn’t ask him to do this because he didn’t do much of it all year, and he still logged heavy minutes. He scored.
Last year, we had a very soft back-up 4 who played too much like LMA, and a rookie 3 who was not an adept scorer, so we relied on Travis to score. We needed someone, anyone to take the pressure off Roy and LMA. We were forced to take the bad with the good. Travis was a BIG part of a team that won 54 games last year because of his scoring alone. It appeared that maybe he would be a staple on this team for a long time…and then the Houston Rockets rolled into town, and the all of the sudden the bad part of Travis’s game became a much bigger problem.
This year is going to be different. We have 3 shiny new scoring threats in Andre, Greg, and Marty. We have a back-up 4 that plays fundamental basketball, and appears like his #1 goal is making Greg better ( which makes me want to see him at most of the back-up 4 minutes ). We have a new sense of the need to play better defense. Travis is not going to be relied on this year to score, score alone, and not offer much else to the table.
If Travis wants to stay on this team and get consistent playing time, his game is going to have to change quite a bit real fast. He needs to focus on point of attack defense, weak side defense, boxing his man out and attacking the boards. He needs to run the floor with Andre to receive easy buckets. He needs to learn to JUST catch and shoot the 3, and not take two dribbles inside the 3 point line allowing the defense to close out on him. He needs to step his game up, or he will be gone, in a trade or just letting him walk. If his game does not change at all this year ( which is highly likely IMHO ), some other team will be able to make him a better offer probably. I think this is Travis’s last year, for better or worse…but there is no one at fault here.
by dario argento on Oct 20, 2009 3:56 PM PDT reply actions 5 recs
Excellent post!
We didn’t ask him to play fundamental basketball. We didn’t ask him to remember to box his man out, to rotate on defense, or to even REMEMBER what defensive scheme we were in. I know we didn’t ask him to do this because he didn’t do much of it all year, and he still logged heavy minutes. He scored.
This is one of the things I hoped people would see. What does him being used like that say? Will we move on this year as you indicate or will we see more of the same type of play? I hope we make the necessary adjustments and if Travis stays, I hope his role will be adjusted as well.
There is more to an athlete than how fast they can run, they also better be able to see what they are doing and know why they are doing it.
by KINGofMACct on Oct 20, 2009 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh look! A fanpost about Travis Outlaw!
"Aneurysm".
When Outlaw wins a game on a last-second shot, it’s called an "annthefaneurysm". QualityPie
by annthefan on Oct 20, 2009 4:26 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I'm sorry, but this fanpost is not about Travis Outlaw alone.
It is about how he has been used and about how our players in general have been asked to put up with a lot of one-on-one which leads to some very poor man and ball movement. These things are not all TO’s fault. We need to take a closer look at what happened to us in the playoffs last year. And Travis was not alone in that either.
There is more to an athlete than how fast they can run, they also better be able to see what they are doing and know why they are doing it.
by KINGofMACct on Oct 20, 2009 4:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have learned that Nate values offense over defense when it matters
That might change once he trusts other players to take the offensive load better off Brandon’s shoulders, which didn’t happen enough last year and in previous years. That’s when the team needed Travis, who is still way better at getting his shot off thanks to his athletic abilities than Martell, Nic, Steve, or Joel and as of last year Greg.
"I think he can still play" - Kevin Pritchard on Juwan Howard
by Norsktroll on Oct 20, 2009 5:39 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I have learned that Nate values offense over defense when it matters </blockquote
didn’t happen enough last year and in previous years.Last year TO would be in for long minutes just drifting, not running hard, not getting assists, not playing much D, and not scoring either. It would drive me crazy. At first I would start to question Travis, then I would think about it a little bit more about who was pulling the strings. What about defense. What about accountability? What about motivation? Then I would realize that Travis probably had 5 minutes left in his shift. ARG …
There is more to an athlete than how fast they can run, they also better be able to see what they are doing and know why they are doing it.
by KINGofMACct on Oct 20, 2009 5:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ooops! I hit the wrong button at the wrong time!
Maybe somebody, unlike me, needs to be more on top of the defense button this year.
There is more to an athlete than how fast they can run, they also better be able to see what they are doing and know why they are doing it.
by KINGofMACct on Oct 20, 2009 5:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Up to this point he's kind of had no choice but to value offense over defense. He has had a primarily offensive team.
Hopefully he starts valuing defense more as his players get better defensively.
by dario argento on Oct 21, 2009 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
TRAVIS and a bit more
We keep going around about TO because he is both good and bad for this team and totally inconsistent in it at that. We see he has moments of brilliance and genius and so wish he could/would either keep those up or given his obvious talent and six years, expand his game and bring balance to himself. So far there is little or no evidence this wish will come true. How then explain the incredible patients with what normally gets a guy fired.
I have a theory, which is nothing more, just one guy’s idea based on one year of observing and intuition, which means analytically its got no clout. It is my belief that TO is one of the most popular guys on the Blazers among the players. TO is first and foremost the cut up who is fun, does the unexpected, has a great sense of humor and thus adds a lot of “makes it fun” to the group and in the process keeps everyone else loose. Loose is low internalized stress and better play all around. So far as I know the only other guy on the team who has any talent in this regard is interestingly enough Greg Oden. The man likes a joke and can make one on himself. I can imagine Martell joining but have not seen it. Other than these two then the Blazers appear to me to be a bunch of totally sober and earnest, hard driving, strivers. Let me hasten to note I do not mean that as a criticism. They are good guys working real hard. I may be wrong and if so please chime in and correct me. I think it is not a small point. It is a valuable contribution within the talents of only a few. This may be reason enough to hang on to TO.
The tangent to this point concerns our local star in the sense that it is my perception Brandon in particular personally likes Travis a lot. My perception is that they hang and are good buddies. Again could be wrong here, but if I am not it is relevant. This is to say as nicely as I can Brandon does not want TO gone. This observation perhaps inferentially raises some gentle question as to who is running this team. Maybe when a man is that good he just naturally is given a say, a big say, in how we are going to do things. He is after all the biggest doer of them all.
Kobe to pull another illustration out of the hat has had his differences with management. It is not always clear how these matters are resolved or even if they are resolved. I am just sayin’ however there is a question. That question takes on more importance when it becomes specifically what will we do with Andre.
Somebody has to have a vision for the team of what ways and means are going to be best for this team, this year. Needs to have it and needs to sell it or enforce it. It’s better to sell it but if you cannot or do not the risk is chaos down the road unless it is enforced. (This too is opinion not fact.)
by blazer_believer on Oct 20, 2009 6:01 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Good point
Though I can’t prove it, I’ve long thought that this was one of the primary reasons KP didn’t pull the trigger last year prior to the trading deadline. The two people it makes the most sense for the Blazers to trade (Blake and Outlaw) just happen to be—if reports are to be believed—the two people on the team Brandon Roy is closest to personally. My understanding is that Roy and Outlaw are particularly tight. At some point, though, if it’s best for the team, KP and Nate are just going to have to pull the trigger. Roy’s a professional and will deal with it.
by UDUB on Oct 20, 2009 6:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
people on the team Brandon Roy is closest to personally. My understanding is that Roy and Outlaw are particularly tight.
We speculated about this during the Hedo courtship. Even though Roy’s extension was still “up in the air” at that point, it still seems likely that KP was keeping Brandon “in the loop” re: the FA offers, and it would’ve been pretty clear if Turk (or Millsap) was acquired that Travis would be likely to be on his way out. I suspect Roy “signed off” on this possibility, not that KP would require Brandon’s “permission” to trade any of his Blazer buddies
When reached 39 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Oct 20, 2009 6:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is past time to move Travis and to get on with life...
KP was six months late on dumping Sergio last year and wound up having to pay somebody to take him…
Same thing here. He is plugging up the works, keeping Inferno and Juwon off the floor.
So long, hale fellow, well met. Thanks for your work and good luck in your next city.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Oct 20, 2009 10:46 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Yes, he is a hale fellow, except for his asthma. Hail Travis! :)
"Aneurysm".
When Outlaw wins a game on a last-second shot, it’s called an "annthefaneurysm". QualityPie
by annthefan on Oct 21, 2009 12:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I concur unfortunately.
I love the guy, but he has served his time here, and does not appear that he is going to able to contribute to what we are trying to do. Our role players need to be killers, not scorers.
by dario argento on Oct 21, 2009 1:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"He is ... keeping ... Juwon (sic) off the floor"
Shaking my head. I didn’t think I would read that after the 90s.
"I think he can still play" - Kevin Pritchard on Juwan Howard
by Norsktroll on Oct 21, 2009 2:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Some of these posts are excellent.
Like the one above about how the organization was not asking him to play d, box out and rebound, etc. I have put some resonsibility on the coaching staff for giving him so many minutes. In all honesty I put most of this on Travis. He knows he is the most talked about amongst Blazer fans. Most of us would like to see him rebound and play defense. The TV announcers heckle him all the time— play some defense and rebound. The coaches are found screaming at him at times on the court. Play some defense and rebound. His teammates have to push him to get what they want: play some defense and rebound.
From Brandon Roy:
“He has the tools to do it,” Roy said. “You can’t just ask anybody what you can ask Travis to do. And that’s something (McMillan) is trying to get out of him. And that’s just going to come with pushing him, and we’ve got to push him as teammates.”
I’m sorry folks. The world is telling him what to do and no results. I dont say we need to blame TO for this, this is who he is. How much of this really needs to go on anyone else though?
Land Rondo.
by loyal_blazer on Oct 21, 2009 9:37 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
FanShots
Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.
Recommended FanShots
Recent FanShots
Certain photos copyright © 2009 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
