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Actually Serious: Bayless as #2 PG???

 

Premise: Miller, Roy, Webster, LMA, Oden...all see huge amounts of time together on the court this year...if that's true...

...is Bayless as #2 PG actually going to help our 2nd unit/TEAM more than Blake?

...or at the very least help our second unit at certain parts of the game even if Blake is healthy



Star-divide

First off, I recognize after one decent outing, this starting lineup may not last, but for the sake of current argument, let's just admit its at least possible that unit does, essentially, at its core see large amounts of time together this year...

...and that Miller ends up playing about 35 minutes per game during "tight" contests this year...if that does happen (if you feel there is no chance of that, I'd like to hear your thoughts as well, but it seems like a distinct possibility)...

...*then seriously, couldn't Bayless end up helping our bench more than Blake this year???*

1st: *It doesn't seem Blake, Rudy, Batum/Webster, Outlaw/LMA, & Pryz is a great "mesh"* I recognize Rudy wasn't feeling too well last night, but we still looked anemic, from what I hear :) ...and should this surprise us in the future, even with a healthy Rudy? It "seems" that a Blake/Rudy backcourt just doesn't have any defense whatsoever, and it *also seems that the lack of a penetrator really hinders both Blakes and Rudy's strenths while playing together...*...I won't elaborate on this point further, suffice to say that seems like it could be a major flaw, and it seems pretty obvious...

 

2nd: I recognize, I DO, that the Blazers have some flexibility in using their players, and that they don't have to swing a 2nd unit lineup this way...but if Miller & Roy end up "jiving"...then leaving LMA as the dude with the subs (like we did a lot last year)...is a distinct possibility...and could also benefit the team by helping give LMA the touches he deserves this year...

3rd: *Notice, I said help our 2nd unit/team* -- By this I mean it seems Bayless driving ability, very likely better defense than Blake by midseason if he gets PT regularly, and possibility of a weakness from last year still manifesting itself (sub-par 3's)...match wonderfully with Rudy's "lights out" 3 pt shooting and "weak" defense...and that with Blake's weakness in playing with Rudy, it seems possible that Bayless might actually help that 2nd unit out more, *at least* by midseason, with some regular playing time...even with all of Rex's flaws...

 

....additionally, I mean that this could very easily set Bayless up in a position to be successful while he's on the court, without hurting our overall record this year too much at all...Bayless on that 2nd unit quite a bit might even help us *this* year because even if it costs us a couple of wins (and I can't say I'm convinced that's a 100% possibility, depending on how well Rex plays (and that's debateable), and depending on how its managed by Nate...), it seems the development of Bayless in it might help us come playoff time, and ultimately be worth it this year...

...and finally, with some regular minutes, *and this point can not be understated,* it could help Bayless's *longterm development as a player with the Blazers* When you factor in everything else, this cannot be understated...Miller will be 34 by mid-season...Blake isn't getting any better, I think he's 30 as well, and he's a FA this year...

...I haven't watched any preseason yet this year, so I'm not asserting, so much as looking for some insight on this topic..but when you factor in all of these points...*is it possible playing J-Bay on the 2nd unit, might be a possibility this year, based on the overall logic for overall benefit towards the Blazers?*

2 recs  |  Comment 31 comments

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By the way, I want to stress I'm not trying to get anyone riled up...

I’m not saying we “automatically” do this irrespective of Bayless’s play, Blake’s play, ect…

rather suggesting/inquiring whether this is a real possibility overall…

by irish3 on Oct 15, 2009 5:38 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Here's a better idea...

Play Miller with the second unit, because his skills would be perfect with Rudy, much more so than Bayless. Then you play Blake with Roy and LMA, and continue last year’s winning, plus have an awesome second unit, that runs up the score on other team’s second units, putting the Blazers over the top by improving on last year’s team.

The alternative is throwing a wrench in what was accomplished last year, and hoping it works, which it hasn’t yet this pre-season. Dre scoring 25pts the other day in a loss should serve as more of a red flag than a confirmation of how perfect he is for our team. I certainly wouldn’t judge his ultimate contribution to the team by anything in pre-season, but I think people are taking the fact that he is a very good individual player, and equating that with automatically starting. If the best 5 basketball players on the team started, Rudy would probably start in front of Oden, but “role” obviously is a factor in who is on the floor together. Greg isn’t really that skilled as a basketball player, but we need a big guy, because the other team will have a big guy, and it is a lot easier for big guys to score, and stop other big guys from scoring. “Role” does matter, sometime more than who is the most talented, because it is a team game. Just as you are making a case for Bayless being better for a particular role than Blake, even though Blake is a better player, I would make the same case that Blake fits the role with Roy and LMA better than Miller, even though Miller is a better player. Miller would be perfect with our second unit though, and of course both guys would play minutes with both units.

I think Bayless will see a little more PT this year, but not a lot. Also, Blake just scored 19 tonight. I don’t think his career is over because of a weak pre-season anymore than Bayless having a good Summer league last year was a predictor of anything. Nate knows what Blake Roy and LMA can do, so he is using pre-season to look at Miller, Oden Webster and other guys.

by wingzeta on Oct 15, 2009 11:43 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

BTW

The West has been so tight the last few years, we really can’t afford to “lose a few more games” trying to develop a guy when we have a guy who can get it done. That is part of the problem. Even though we finished tied for third in the West last year, the last playoff spot was taken by a team that only lost a few more games than we did. The Suns missed the playoffs, and they weren’t that far back either. In the East, we could have made the playoffs with our 41 wins in 2008, but not the West. The West really is about doing what it takes to win now, otherwise, you are watching the playoffs on the couch. Every win counts, so frankly, if playing Blake from opening day will win vs. Miller taking time to mesh, I’d rather build up some wins before moving Miller to the starting spot. before then, he will have plenty of time to play with Roy in games, but it doesn’t have to be a big experiment, when we have guys we know can win. It is about winning. That playoff spot won’t be handed to us, we literally have to win it.

by wingzeta on Oct 15, 2009 11:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am sure Miller

will end up playing a lot of minutes with the 2nd unit, even if he starts ( he probably will).
I am with you, I don´t think Blake will work with our 2nd unit, but my solution is different.

by Falcao on Oct 15, 2009 5:46 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Blake looked awful last night

There were a few “What was that” passes, and no highlights to offset them. When the line-up of Blake, Rudy, Batum, Travis, and Joel was out there, I was cringing throughout, and, sure enough, our lead vanished.

If you ever hear of someone punching out a girl scout and stealing her Samoas, it was me
- Mortimer

by Clevelander among roses on Oct 15, 2009 8:21 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Or the Jazz over the years...

Used to joke every year which white guy are they going to draft in the first round this year. Boozer and Williams are probably the closest thing you could get without actually getting white guys.

by xedubx on Oct 15, 2009 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

he was like 5'9"

or perhaps a little shorter, right?

(London broadcast)

Come on you gotta listen unto me,
lay off that whiskey and let that cocaine be. ~Johnny Cash

by HurraKane212 on Oct 15, 2009 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Quite frankly our team would be better suited with 2 strong line up's, than 1 over the top one, and a not even 2nd

unit, but it seems ego will get in the way yes the RAMBO line up is the strongest. BUT we would be better suited to have 2 strong teams 10 deep than just 1 super strong one as there is only 1 ball, if it’s an ego thing maybe Roy needs to say hey lets start the white team one night and the black team another 2 losses from RAMBO starts does not cut it. As they switch out players everybody will get experanced playing together, but we need every win starting on opening day and can not lose any early ones just due to EGO, Please do what is best for the team not individual stats!

by prof.mike on Oct 15, 2009 9:26 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

actually, thats kind of silly

Our best players will play the bulk of the game. A killer first unit makes a bench a luxury. Roy is going to play 35+, LMA will play 35+, Miller 25+, Oden looks like he will play 25+, Rudy will probably play 25ish. If you’re relying on your bench to win you games, you’re not a contender. Having a great 6th man is a fine thing, but all you need is competency from 7-15 if your starting 5 is good enough.

Come on you gotta listen unto me,
lay off that whiskey and let that cocaine be. ~Johnny Cash

by HurraKane212 on Oct 15, 2009 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I thought the same thing last night

That second unit (if it becomes the second unit) lacks players that can create their own shot. Rudy could possibly do that, but Bayless can definitely do that. I like Rudy at PG and Rex at SG. They can switch on defense.

All that said, it’ll never happen.

Bring back the Uncle Cliffy!

by hawkblogger on Oct 15, 2009 9:28 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm thinking the same thing

Rudy can initiate the offense, especially in the halfcourt, and Bayless can guard the 1. Bayless could also drive and dish to Rudy and/or Martell on ther perimeter, and Travis and/or Nic do a good job at diving to fill the lane/present a target.I really like the offensive potential of Jerryd, Rudy, Nic/Martell (whoever doesn’t start) and Travis in the open court, that could be a good group to push the tempo with, and Rudy is a great facilitator. Like yu said, this isn’t likely to happen, but I have enough belief in Bayless’ potential that I think this should at least be considered.

I hate Comcast.

by blazeraddict on Oct 15, 2009 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's possible,

but I have to think Blake will get going during the regular season. It’s a lot like putting too much stock in Roy’s numbers.

by ranma on Oct 15, 2009 10:04 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Yeah just because if bayless develops some d

he could help stop those hot knife point guard that are having their way with our buttery perimeter players.

by tevisthe4th on Oct 15, 2009 10:27 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

It's preseason. Blake is a baller, and will figure out how to play in his new role once the regular season starts.

And no, I don’t think Bayless will help the team more that Blake can on the second unit.

by dario argento on Oct 15, 2009 10:59 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

has anyone considered

that Nate might mix his rotations so that while RAMBO might start, we will still see long stretches of Miller, Rudy, Batum, Outlaw and LMA playing together? That is what I see, although sometimes Outlaw or LMA will be replaced by joel. Consider this:
Start the game with
Miller
Roy
Batum
Lma
Oden

6 mins in or so bring in Blake and Web, sit miller and Batum. Line up on the court, Blake, Roy, Web, LMA, Oden
9 mins in bring in Rudy and Joel or Outlaw, sit Roy and Oden. Line up on the court, Blake, Rudy, Web, LMA, Joel.

Second qtr starts
Miller and Outlaw or Joel in for Blake and LMA. Start qtr with Miller, Rudy, Web, Outlaw, and Joel.
4 mins in bring Roy back in for Web. Line up on the floor is Miller, Rudy, Roy, Outlaw and Joel.
6 mins in bring Oden and LMA back in for Outlaw and Joel. Line up on the floor is Miller, Rudy, Roy, LMA, and Oden.
8 mins in bring Blake back in for Miller. Line up on the floor is Blake, Rudy, Roy, LMA, and Oden.
10 mins in bring Batum back in for Rudy. Finish half with Blake, Roy, Batum, Lma, and Oden.

With a rotation like this the Blazers can keep a pick and role player on the court all the time, (miller, roy, or rudy) and get a good run for most of your guys. In this rotation just like anyone with this years Blazer team, for me that would be Outlaw or Joel, and I picked Outlaw to get the fewest minutes.

This rotation would pencil out to the following minutes for each player give or take a few minutes.
Miller 28 Blake 20
Roy 34 Rudy 26
Batum 16 Web 20
LMA 36 Outlaw 12
Oden 30 Joel 18

by usmcr3049 on Oct 15, 2009 12:13 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

So far I'd put my money on your prediction ...

… over anything else I’ve seen at BE.

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Oct 15, 2009 4:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I like the 3-guard lineup to get Rudy more minutes

but it really depends on the defensive assignment at any particular time. Miller-Rudy-Roy is a nice backcourt, at least sometimes.

by Kaboomm on Oct 16, 2009 5:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Uh, no..

“If it aint broke, don’t fix it.”

Miller has proven himself as a starter in this league on a playoff team.
Blake has proven himself as a starter in this league on a playoff team.

If you’re moving toward a chamionship season (in the next 2-3 years), why would you try and work an unproven rookie tweener into your point guard rotation? Look, I like Rex. Love his attitude and confidence to stick in this league. But he’s not a point guard. Bayless is an unpolished version of Ben Gordon, who now plays shooting guard up in Detroit. If we didn’t have Rudy, I’d love to give Jerryd a shot. But let’s be honest with ourselves. If we had a scale out and one side was looking for his own shot with the other side being a great distributor of the ball, which side is heavier and by how much? That’s really the issue here. He has a vastly better stroke on the ball than he does floor vision. We have plenty of scorers this season. We need floor generals at point guard, not a mini-Ben Gordon.

Regarding Hedo Türkoğlu:

Look at the bright side, Blazers fans -- you dodged a bullet. He peaked statistically two years ago. He's allegedly 30 but could be closer to 32 or 33 for all we know. (Do you trust Turkish birth certificates? And isn't it weird that he played four years of pro ball in Turkey in the 1990s?)

- Bill Simmons of ESPN.com

by halo_on on Oct 15, 2009 12:24 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I've given some thoughts about it as well

Since Blake, Rudy, and Martell on the perimeter means practically zero penetrate and finish ability out there. Still, let’s give it time and see. If it is not working by December, then we can package Blake for a trade.

Actually, I’d trade Blake and Outlaw now to get rid of McMillen’s security blankets. But, that’s just me.

by xedubx on Oct 15, 2009 12:29 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

As previously stated . . .

      I don’t think Miller will start. Reasons are as follows. . .
1. He needs to dominate the ball to be effective. That doesn’t mean
    he’s not a good passer or selfish, but his driving & posting ability mean
    the ball is in his hands a lot.
2. BRoy’s abilities are the same, except he’s not on the post as much. Instead
    he’s a better deep shooter. Roy like Miller has the ability to break down his
    man and the defense to get himself shots or set up a teammate for a open
    look or good opportunity.
3. Blake’s skillset make him a better running mate to Roy, since he’s better at
    spacing the floor and spotting up for outside/ 3 pt jumpers. Even if he starts
    that does not mean he will play more minutes than Miller, just be paired up
    with Roy at the start of the the 1st & 3rd Quarter. This would allow Roy to initiate
    the offense like he has the last three years, get in a flow offensively with Smooth
    and allow Miller to play most of his minutes creating for the more offensively
    challenged 2nd Unit. Essentially Miller would be a key piece in the puzzle, just
    fitting in a different way.
4. I didn’t want to add any FA’s, because I wanted to see BRex get the backup PG
    minutes to help him grow as a player and facilitator. He has the physical skills
    to be a great player, even a very good defender, but lacks the experience to
    adapt his physical skills. He needs game time to hone those skills to the NBA
    game. Perhaps he will never adapt to the PG position, but with BRoy’s playmaking
    skills could be an excellent running mate playing off the ball. I guess we will
    find out how the cake bakes soon enough !

It's GO time !

by walkoff41 on Oct 15, 2009 12:35 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

I also want to see Bayless get some minutes...

…it seems Coach Nate almost has “too much” of the “win now at all costs mentality”…if Bayless is gonna be a player for us, or even get decent trade value, we’re gonna have to spend some time developing him…that’s just how it goes…

…it’s a tad ludicrous to not realize next year will be an even worse year to break Bayless in, Oden will really be coming into his own, LMA & Oden will have reached very near to their peak, ect…

…If there was ever a year to break Jarryd in, it would seem to be this year, sigh…all Bayless has to do is be a defensive pg stopper, and shoot some jumpers, I’m slightly understating it, but on this team, I agree, he’d be the perfect complement to B-Roy even if he never develops into a pg…

…its going to tick me off if he blossoms on another team, and we get pennies to the dollar

by irish3 on Oct 15, 2009 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Good grasp of the situation. REC

I’m hoping Nate has the same idea. He said as much at one point, but with all the controversy, who knows. It’s easy for some sports writer from ESPN who doesn’t know the team to automatically make Miller the starter, because he was a very talented FA pick up, and “who is this Jeff Blake guy?” Miller is a PG they have heard of, so he must start. I just hope that doesn’t start to affect Nate. He is starting to find himself in a position, where if he starts Blake, and we lose the first game, he will be immediately be ridiculed up and down by not just a bunch of bloggers, but guys from ESPN and other National sources that know little about the team, 54 wins with Blake be damned. On the other hand if Miller starts and we lose, it will just be the growing pains of a talented young team and their new veteran QB, who aren’t quite ready to play with the big boys. Hopefully Nate will stick to his guns.

by wingzeta on Oct 16, 2009 12:17 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Barring injury, you will see Bayless getting minutes ...

.. just as soon as he shows the coaching staff he is a better point guard than either of the guys in front of him.

Right now it is not even close.

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Oct 15, 2009 4:30 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Blake could be the trade fodder this spring..

given that he has a more expensive contract (hence more valuable when it expires)…. In fact, a Blake / Outlaw package could net us a solid star (salary matching, anyway)…

Bayless needs to really excel in the mop-up situations he’ll see early…

by Visionary2 on Oct 16, 2009 12:42 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I only agree with this

cause steve blake is annoying and I love jerryd bayless, at least we knew why greg oden didn’t play in his first year. let the guy play, I’ll be pumped if they trade blake for depth at PF or a better SF, and yeah, our SF situation is not as good as it should be.

by StocktonNEP on Oct 16, 2009 3:04 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I respect your post and you taking a new angle but

i just don’t think it’s plausible. Also i believe it’s largely influenced by 3 preseason games. This team and these guys will figure things out. It just might take a longer time than our internet/twitter/myspace privileged fan base would like to give them.

My take on Jerryd is if we keep him it prohibits him from growing into what he can be as an NBA player. And if we trade him, he becomes a monster and destroys us.

But i’ve had a few vodka/rebulls so perhaps my logic is a bit skewed.

peace.

Portland's PG of the Future - Meet John Wall
Treat people well because Karma can hit you at any second.

by Net Ranger on Oct 17, 2009 12:19 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

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