Batum: Looking ahead.
by Dheepan on Jan 6, 2009 5:58 PM PST
129 comments
Been a while since I wrote a real post, anyways just some thoughts I've had regarding everyone favorite lanky flying frenchman.
It's no secret Batum is a fan favorite. Whether ordering whoppers at Burger King or flying down the court to swat away seemingly guaranteed points, he has become adored by BEdgers for his hustle, grit and hawtness. He's unquestionably shown a lot of promise, but just what is his future in the organization?
Flashback to the 2006 season, Sergio Rodriguez was nightly lighting up the assist column and provided flare to a team considered among the dregs of the Western conference. Many fans immediately anointed Sergio as a player of the future, someone with a Nash like ability to dish and penetrate. Next year, as additional guard talent was added, his minutes were cut and his development was significantly curbed. The ennui of Sergio did not crest until his 2008 trade demand and subsequent increase in playing time.
Does this offer a cautionary tale to those already penciling in Batum as the small forward of the future?
Batum, although he starts, plays backup type minutes, is wildly inconsistent between games, and on several occasions flirted with the ultimate stat of futility, the one trillion. Compared to other small forwards, Batum's PER rating of 12.5 (compared to league average of 15) is nothing to write home about. However, most of these faults have been brushed under the table because he has fit very well within the starting lineup and has more than exceeded expectations after being drafted 25th and his subsequent underwhelming performance in summer league.With Webster coming back from his foot injury, it seems logical he will regain his starting spot and with Travis coming off the bench, that seems to leave nothing but breadcrumbs of playing time for Nicolas. The question emerges, will he lose his playing time? Are we going to see a Sergio-esque slide into regression?
My guess is no
Although it seems like Nic's minutes are going to be cut with the return of Webster, that might not be the case. Travis Outlaw is still a work in progress at the small forward position, and with Channing Frye's continuing barrage of suck, moving Nic to the backup 3 seems like the most rational move.Furthermore, this rotation allows Travis to play exclusively at the 4, the position where he seems most productive. Batum also compliments the bench unit quite well, his fantastic knack for running the break, rebounding, combined with his decent shooting, and ball handling skills all fit well with the breakneck speed of the second unit. This means that Nic's minutes will probably remain the way they are, while at the same time he is allowed to play against far inferior 2nd unit players, combined with our softer second half schedule, I think the possibility of increased production is not unrealistic.
Outlook
In the long term, I think the management also views Nic as our answer at the 3 spot. His biggest strength, perimeter defense is our biggest weakness. His high BBIQ, and work ethic means that he will probably learn how to best use his elite level athleticism and ideal length.
Considering his youth (and to a certain extent nationality), his inconsistency can easily be forgiven, but what is very surprising is how rare it is for him to make mistakes. Batum is very rarely late on defensive rotations, or caught not boxing out on his man, or lackadaisically running back on transition. Furthermore, his shot selection has been solid. Just how many times have we seen him drive wildly drive into the lane to chuck a turn around fadeaway? All of this in just his rookie season points to player who has a deep understanding of the game of basketball.
Another promising anecdote about Batum, is that he has a high energy level even though he is rarely involved in the offense. McMillan's offensive scheme favors having the small forward parked out at the 3 point line with few if any touches. This sort of role can really affect how much energy an offense minded player (like Martell) can bring. Last season, Martell even though he started, seemed invisible on the court on many possessions. Guys like Batum, who have their head in the game even without the ball in their hands are rare and very valuable. He brings a lot of "intangibles" on court, from tipping balls, collecting errant rebounds, making the extra pass, his game is very cerebral, the unquantifiable qualities that top veteran role players bring. There is a very good reason a 20yr old rookie with very mediocre stats starts for a 20-14 team.
All of this points to Batum as a future keystone in the Blazers franchise, and the trading of either Outlaw or Martell to accomodate his growth.
14 recs |
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I honsestly feel totally shafted that I wasn't involved or mentioned in this post
Everyone now is a Batum Bandwagoner. I <3 ’d him from the beginning.
Other than your obvious flaw of not mentioning me as is #1 fan this post is pretty much right on.
Sophia
Though patience be a tired mare, yet she will plod. - William Shakespeare
by BlazerFan1 on Jan 6, 2009 6:14 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
hahaha!
Well idk, I mean I did say hawtness, I was thinking of you when I wrote that sentence. Does that count?
Caught on Video
She moves along a painted wind
The moon is on the rooftop
The street is like an ocean
But she always flays her arms when she's dancin' so slow
WORD UP. STAY. FRESCO.
by Dheepan on Jan 6, 2009 6:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
yes :)
Though patience be a tired mare, yet she will plod. - William Shakespeare
by BlazerFan1 on Jan 6, 2009 6:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
you guys are crushing way too hard on this REALLY YOUNG kid...
you guys should make and wear the “I Heart Nic” t-shirts…better yet, they might have some ebay that was from the 98 degrees Nic… i can’t believe i just said that.
"Step up to my mic!!!" Joel's right and left fist
by broyposse on Jan 6, 2009 11:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sophia's gonna buy it for 1k!!!
"Step up to my mic!!!" Joel's right and left fist
by broyposse on Jan 7, 2009 2:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
oops, i tried to link to the other post where they thought Sophia was the bidder for the classic blzer shirt...
didn’t work though
"Step up to my mic!!!" Joel's right and left fist
by broyposse on Jan 7, 2009 2:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I d him more than a year before he was a Blazer
Do I get a special discount aboard the bandwagon?
I guess its different when you <3 someone as a player as opposed to a person.
by as11osu on Jan 6, 2009 6:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah i remember that the "heart" doesnt show in the title
I just remember EVERYONE piling on about Nic being “KP’s first mistake” based on his summer league play. He was supposedly going strait to the D league if not out right waived. I always thought he was cute and so forth, but I had been frustrated w/ our current SF options and was happy and looking forward to see what he would be or get a glimpse at what he would someday become. No one else had faith. I am so happy he has turned out to be such a help to our starting lineup , b/c we would not have the record we have if Travis had started.
Sophia
Though patience be a tired mare, yet she will plod. - William Shakespeare
by BlazerFan1 on Jan 6, 2009 8:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That is not true
You will not find one negative post from me on Nic. My trust is in KP who does not make mistakes so it actually energized my interest and hope when others here disparaged Nic.
whoo, Katy bar the door! - Maurice Lucas anticipating Greg Oden's development
by lee3022 on Jan 7, 2009 5:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm
Everyone piling on Nic? By saying he was going straight to the D League? Like in this comment?
http://www.blazersedge.com/2008/7/21/576343/meet-mr-adorable#7547939
This comment certainly assumed that he wasn’t going to the D League, didn’t it?
http://www.blazersedge.com/2008/7/28/581548/questions-up-for-discussio#7717275
But we can forgive those, because that was way back in July. What really irritates me is people who were still talking about him going to Idaho in NOVEMBER.
http://www.blazersedge.com/2008/11/18/664873/gameday-open-thread#10122208
But I’m so glad that at least one person, our Sophia, had faith. No one else did. She says so, and I believe EVERYTHING Sophia says.
(I forget, what’s the Internet thing you can do to indicate you are sticking your tongue out at someone? I really almost felt guilty about this comment, but I got over it.)
If you can't convince them, confuse them -- Harry Truman, U.S. President
by jscot on Jan 8, 2009 8:18 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
you win the internets
this is absolutly histarikl, two thumbs waaaaay up!!!
December 18, 2008.
"Roy is Roy, and if I were to bet my life on a game of 5-on-5, I’d bet on whichever team Roy was playing on." by HurraKane212
by maid tu rek on Jan 10, 2009 10:34 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I remember the "heart" doesn't show in the title
I just remember EVERYONE piling on about Nic being “KP’s first mistake” based on his summer league play. He was supposedly going strait to the D league if not out right waived. I always thought he was cute and so forth, but I had been frustrated w/ our current SF options and was happy and looking forward to see what he would be or get a glimpse at what he would someday become. No one else had faith. I am so happy he has turned out to be such a help to our starting lineup , b/c we would not have the record we have if Travis had started.
Sophia
Though patience be a tired mare, yet she will plod. - William Shakespeare
by BlazerFan1 on Jan 6, 2009 8:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i would have to disagree with your last sentence...
the first part of this season was all about Brandon Roy…Travis was also shooting about 50% from the 3pt line in the early part of the schedule.
It wouldn’t have matter if Nic or Travis was in the starting lineup. I would even go so far as saying Shavlik in the Nic 7 starting minutes, and 7 3rd quarter minutes would result in the same record we have.
"Step up to my mic!!!" Joel's right and left fist
by broyposse on Jan 6, 2009 10:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
correct all about brandon
Travis starting takes away shots from broy and messes the offense up while playing terrible defense . Travis shooting on the 2nd unit was vital 2 ouir success mostly bc we had 2 shooters in travis and rudy and they couldn’t b guarded well enough. So u are basically way off base and your comment defies all statistics.
Sophia
Though patience be a tired mare, yet she will plod. - William Shakespeare
by BlazerFan1 on Jan 6, 2009 10:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
oh, don't pull a John Hollinger on me!
you know, love is blind sometimes….
i’m basically saying in an unconventional way that Brandon hides a lot of our flaws, and he can hide Travis flaws too.
Even if travis doesn’t start, he still plays along side Broy as much, if not more than Nic
"Step up to my mic!!!" Joel's right and left fist
by broyposse on Jan 6, 2009 11:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So you are saying Hollinger is about love?
More like quantitative analysis to me.
whoo, Katy bar the door! - Maurice Lucas anticipating Greg Oden's development
by lee3022 on Jan 7, 2009 5:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree Sophia
I was high on him before the draft and thrilled when we stole him form SA,that made it even better,thus I had faith
by southern oregon on Jan 7, 2009 1:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
:) ok i allow thee off the bandwagon
sophia
Though patience be a tired mare, yet she will plod. - William Shakespeare
by BlazerFan1 on Jan 7, 2009 1:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You better slow down the bandwagon then
An old man like me might break a leg.
by southern oregon on Jan 7, 2009 2:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i thought he would be a bust
December 18, 2008.
"Roy is Roy, and if I were to bet my life on a game of 5-on-5, I’d bet on whichever team Roy was playing on." by HurraKane212
by maid tu rek on Jan 7, 2009 11:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'll come clean.
I thought he was another low risk/ high reward long shot like PetKop anf Feeland. With no more short term NBA value than then the two of them.
Perfect practice makes perfect.
by Ojala John on Jan 8, 2009 8:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I was wrong.
Perfect practice makes perfect.
by Ojala John on Jan 8, 2009 8:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm with you OJ
I was pleasantly surprised when Nic made the roster. Now look at him go. – Elgin
It doesn't mean you should just because you can. Like Abraham and Ishmael, fighting over sand - it doesn't mean you should just because you can. That is a fact of life. - Adrian Belew
by 22baylor on Jan 8, 2009 12:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't know him before summer league
When i was at summer league, i didn’t see anything outstanding, but believed he might be a project and a possible future SF starter or back-up down teh road. I figured back-up but really couldn’t judge on the little I’ve seen.
The season started and Batum has been looking good. Sometimes he’ll make mistakes but they’re a lot less than other players I could mention (Oden, Travis, Sergio, Rudy, Aldridge, Frye, Diogu… okay I’ll stop). I appreciate his hustle and what he’s brought.
So, call me a bandwagon if you like, but the player has to show me the money.
Also, my gf recently picked him as “the one”. Grrrrrrr If that happens I’ll give you her address so you can vent to her about it. My “one” was the contortionist with the bow at the New Orleans blazer game. Nice proportions although I’d prefer taller. I saw was because I don’t really care and it’ll change based on what new shiny object is currently in front of me.
Greg Oden, where posters happen.
by ratbastird on Jan 7, 2009 2:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Batum is awesome.
He is going to be an integral part of this team when he gets more minutes. Boy did we luck out with him… even K.P. was surprised at how quickly he became effective in the NBA.
In K.P. I trust.
by Thack on Jan 6, 2009 6:31 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
That is a disturbing picture you got there
Caught on Video
She moves along a painted wind
The moon is on the rooftop
The street is like an ocean
But she always flays her arms when she's dancin' so slow
WORD UP. STAY. FRESCO.
by Dheepan on Jan 6, 2009 6:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Or did KP deflect the love to prevent other GMs from seeing him as arrogant?
My thought is nothing KP ever says is simple and serves multiple purposes. He is a chess master and the GMs and owners around the league are his – so far – less capable opponents who are meant to see a different strategy than the real plan.
whoo, Katy bar the door! - Maurice Lucas anticipating Greg Oden's development
by lee3022 on Jan 7, 2009 5:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Batum makes me drool
Now there is a nineteen year old rookie that has shown some potential. If he can keep getting better and more consistent, I like his chances… A lot….
RUDY > MJ
by myemic23 on Jan 6, 2009 6:54 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
In his 6th year Nic will look less confused than Travis
I am geting this cut and paste thing figured out. The skinny French kid is a keeper for sure
by southern oregon on Jan 6, 2009 7:17 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
He already looks less confused than Travis
Plus… Batum is our version of the French guard who taunts King Arthur in Monty Python’s Holy Grail.
by tmundal on Jan 6, 2009 7:31 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
and:
I don’t want to talk to you no more, you empty headed animal food trough wiper. I fart in your general direction. Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries.
Open invitation: all you who are self-proclaimed ping pong experts. If you think you can beat me - or if you just want to see how it's really played: cdd37@yahoo.com. This means you, too, Jerryd.
by TTRocks on Jan 6, 2009 7:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Your wife called
And called and called and called
by southern oregon on Jan 6, 2009 7:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
What a whopper, that Batum kid.
Glad to have him.
by Eventine on Jan 6, 2009 7:18 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
i like batum longterm
but right now he shouldnt be starting. We need more offensive production from our starting SF right now, especially with Roy out. Batum has had two good games in his last 15. time to move him to the bench where he would fit better.
Start Travis
Woof
by Charles Barkley McLovin on Jan 6, 2009 7:33 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Our bench is already suffering hard enough without Rudy
Besides, he thrives more as a spark off the bench.
by Eventine on Jan 6, 2009 8:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
no i dont agree with you
Roy creates, Travis does not. He would be no more than he already is.
Sophia
Though patience be a tired mare, yet she will plod. - William Shakespeare
by BlazerFan1 on Jan 6, 2009 8:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
travis creates...
the most difficult shot he possibly can, and hits those at a better rate than free throws it seems.
Activate Shavlik Randolph
by appel82 on Jan 7, 2009 12:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
good point
Though patience be a tired mare, yet she will plod. - William Shakespeare
by BlazerFan1 on Jan 7, 2009 1:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe the secret is to get someone to try to block his shot.
or have him run at it and flip it in. Do you HAVE to be standing at the line for the shot? Can you be behind it and running or whatever? Just one game I’d like to see that.
Greg Oden, where posters happen.
by ratbastird on Jan 7, 2009 2:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Batum
Who should be starting? TROUT has no consistency, and could not be counted on. Personally I like TO. He just can’t be counted on to do the right thing, in the right situation. He will take the tuff shot, when someone needs to. But is that what we really want? Martell will take his place in the starting line-up when he is ready! Batum is the heir apparent.
COMCAST SUCKS!!
by shamman on Jan 6, 2009 9:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Batum
can at least be counted on to defend and stay out on his man. He contests shots that Outlaw could if he put in the effort, but Outlaw doesn’t have games like that consistently. The most Outlaw can be counted on doing is taking up space and watching his man shoot over him because he got there too late.
Personally I’d rather have flat offensive production from the opposing man Batum is defending than spotty offense and virtually no defense from Outlaw.
"She turned me into a newt!
A newt?
...I got better."
by Seijeff on Jan 7, 2009 12:22 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
To be fair
Trout is a pretty decent weak-side defender. He just sucks rocks at face-up defending. Plus there have been games where I think he has the BBIQ of a towel.
by DonkeyShins on Jan 7, 2009 12:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Batum and Dheepan together!
Does it get any better?
Batum is like the polar opposite of other super athletic n’ lanky 19 year old wingmen, where they USUALLY have spent their whole lives scoring and dunking and once they get in a situation where they aren’t the best at that they have no clue what to do— and defense was for the little people, not them. They start clueless there as well.
Batum’s play internationally taught him how to play team defense and play as a role player, while still developing his crazy athleticism.
I have high hopes for Batum. Offense is cheap, and most anyone as athletic as him can learn to score more. Check Outlaw out, for example— he couldn’t score a lick when he came into the league, and some nights he is unstoppable. But DEFENSE… defense is always at a premium, and for Batum to be as good as he is right now…
There’s been nothing but good signs from the kid.
Oh what the hell… I like Nic Batum. There, I said it! Sue me! I’ll settle out of court for 1000 kisses on the nose from one Sir Nicolas Batum the 8th!
Mortimer
by Mortimer on Jan 6, 2009 8:40 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
bad comparison?
for some reason batum’s play really reminds me of doug christie. i remembered when doug practiced with the team and i really hoped he could be apart of our team as a role player…but i guess he was never really the same after all those injuries. hopefully nic can be everything doug was minus the crazy wife.
Honor Terry Porter
by Philthyanimal on Jan 6, 2009 9:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
for the record
my title is questioning if batum = christie as a good comparison or not.
Honor Terry Porter
by Philthyanimal on Jan 6, 2009 9:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Haha, does that make Sophia Jackie Christie?
In 2002, The New York Times published a feature story in which Doug and his wife Jackie talked about ways the two keep Doug from succumbing to the extramarital temptations that come with the pro athlete lifestyle. These measures include:
- With few exceptions, Doug does not look at other women, avoiding dialogue or eye contact. Jackie explains, “Doug is allowed to look at females. I would prefer he didn’t.”
- Jackie often follows behind the team’s bus on road trips, talking to Doug on his cellphone until they reach their destination.
- After his wife expressed uneasiness about female Toronto Raptors staff members having access to the players’ locker room, Doug dressed in a separate locker room.
- Jackie insists on accompanying her husband when he is being interviewed by certain female reporters.
- The couple re-marry every year on their wedding anniversary, complete with guests and festivities.
In reaction to the story, ESPN columnist Bill Simmons wrote, “If you were granted [a] TV wish, wouldn’t it be for an "Osbournes”-style reality-TV show called “The Christies”?"Simmons got his wish in 2006, when Black Entertainment Television’s BET Jlaunched the reality show The Christies Committed, featuring the struggle to balance family and celebrity life.
Well, I could be wrong, but I believe diversity is an old, old wooden ship that was used during the Civil War era.
by RoyDrexler on Jan 7, 2009 11:56 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Doug Christie's life sucks.
I had looked at this info before and it frightens me—absolutely FRIGHTENS me. If the roles were reversed we would be talking about Ike and Tina here.
Catalina-Wine-Mixer.
by ArbyOSU on Jan 7, 2009 2:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He seems happy with it
If you can't convince them, confuse them -- Harry Truman, U.S. President
by jscot on Jan 8, 2009 8:23 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, he IS Doug Christie after all...
Catalina-Wine-Mixer.
by ArbyOSU on Jan 8, 2009 3:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Doug Christie was good...
he was an integral part of the Kings team that got shafted by the refs in the WCF
"Step up to my mic!!!" Joel's right and left fist
by broyposse on Jan 6, 2009 10:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
thx
Doug played great defense…hit the 3 ball with enough accuracy to keep the defense honest albeit not a sharpshooter…and would always streak to the hoop after a turnover ready for the outlet pass or a finish on the fast break. seeing batum scoring on fast breaks and dunks reminded me of doug.
Honor Terry Porter
by Philthyanimal on Jan 6, 2009 10:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think the kid is for real
He said it best himself when he said he combines the Euro style of play with American athleticism. Just give him a year or two and he’s going to be Pippen-esque—minus the weak outside shot.
Plus, I’ll bet Batum is a better tipper.
"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla
by hurryup09 on Jan 6, 2009 11:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Euros dont tip
But maybe your right
by tevisthe4th on Jan 7, 2009 2:15 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Someone
who gives tips ?
Someone who censors others (Mrs. Gore and her firendly PMRC) ?
by Blenzer on Jan 7, 2009 9:25 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Someone who gives a waiter/waitress more money than expected after a meal for the service is a "good tipper"
Pippen was known as being very tight with his cash.
by Norsktroll on Jan 7, 2009 9:31 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
In the US of A
It is expected to give your waiter 18-20% of your bill for a tip. The government automatically taxes the waiter as if they got the tip, whether they do or not.
I used to be a waiter, and while many Euros didn’t tip, some understand it was customary and did so. But it was a crap shoot, and when a Euro stiffs ya and doesn’t leave any money, they’re costing that waiter 12% of that meal— that’s the automatic tax the government lays upon the waiter.
Most Americans leave fifteen to twenty percent for a tip, and you remove money for bad service or food.
I’m not sure what percentage they do in France. Do you tip?
Mortimer
by Mortimer on Jan 7, 2009 9:44 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You should watch "Waiting"
Very amusing take on the whole Euro tipping phenomenon.
by DonkeyShins on Jan 7, 2009 12:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
a bunch of belgians
said they don’t usually tip unless the service is really good, but they don’t floss either. lots o’ places have built in gratuity, no?
Activate Shavlik Randolph
by appel82 on Jan 7, 2009 12:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
From what I've seen
I’ve only seen built in gratuity for big parties, 5 or 6 or more.
I liked leaving tips in Eastern Europe, because the food is so cheap and I can leave a 3, 4 dollar tip and the waitress will chase me down thanking me for the great tip. Same but even better in Morocco, though every hotel and restaurant is trying to hustle you there.
Soda is usually more expensive than beer and wine in many Euro countries, so most Euros don’t realize that pretty much every restaurant in the USA gives the customer free refills of soda! As much as we can drink, can you imagine?
Mortimer
by Mortimer on Jan 7, 2009 12:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
People wont accept tips in china
and it’s not really customary in Japan either. However that doesn’t stop them from tipping while visiting our country. The bellmen at the hotel i work at tell me that “Japan got the memo on tipping.” Apparently every Japanese person who’s stayed here at the hotel the last couple of years has been quite generous with the tips.
by moflow on Jan 7, 2009 1:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh yes they will...
I’ve been to China/HK numerous times, and the waitstaff is more than happy to take your money if you leave it on the table.
by EngineerScotty on Jan 7, 2009 4:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Traditionally
people do tip in France, though it seems more and more don’t and the ones who do tend to give less and less…, I’d say for a 40€ bill, the average tip would be around 2-3€, but it varies a lot depending on the place. Tips are not taxed and are not included in the salary.
by Blenzer on Jan 7, 2009 7:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
in australia
you do not have to tip if you feel it is not warranted, if your meal costs 50 dollars, you can leave 50 dollars exactly and walk off.
however i do not feel taxing waiters on tips is fair……
by Yawnie on Jan 8, 2009 3:58 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hrmm
I worked in the U.S. as a waiter once for a while. They don’t tax the waiter 12% of the bill.
They assume the waiter got a 12% tip, and they charge tax as if he got that much, which means if he’s in a 20% tax bracket, he pays tax of 20% of the 12% — 2.4%.
Don’t confuse these poor Euros.
Quite a few places in Germany include the tip automatically in the bill. A lot of the nicer places here in Scotland do as well. Otherwise, tips might run in the 5-8% range, unless service was really exceptional.
If you can't convince them, confuse them -- Harry Truman, U.S. President
by jscot on Jan 8, 2009 8:27 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
How old are you
jscot ? How did you become a blazer fan ?
by Blenzer on Jan 8, 2009 12:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I also wanted to know in which city do you leave...
No, I’m not a maniacal spy and realize this is hardly the place to ask such questions, but I haven’t found a way to send you a private message, not that I was desperate to be have special privacy with you though…
by Blenzer on Jan 8, 2009 12:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm 49
I grew up (mostly) in Portland, became a fan in 70 when my dad took me to a game that very first year, and Geoff Petrie was my hero.
When they traded Petrie for the rights to Maurice Lucas, I was ready to blow up Memorial Colisseum in protest. I forgave them during the second game of the Finals against Philly when Lucas lowered the boom on Dawkins.
I live in southern Scotland, sort of between Edinburgh and Glasgow, but to the south.
If you can't convince them, confuse them -- Harry Truman, U.S. President
by jscot on Jan 8, 2009 1:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
typical republican
When they traded Petrie for the rights to Maurice Lucas, I was ready to blow up Memorial Coliseum
Sophia
Ps <3 <3
Though patience be a tired mare, yet she will plod. - William Shakespeare
by BlazerFan1 on Jan 8, 2009 9:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
LOLOLOLOL
At least I’m not Irish.
I noticed you didn’t reply to my other comment with all those nice links to Bedge comments by someone who didn’t have faith in Nic.
Coward.
If you can't convince them, confuse them -- Harry Truman, U.S. President
by jscot on Jan 9, 2009 12:02 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i thought it was so funny, that i changed my sig line to make sure she saw it
guess i kan change it back now
December 18, 2008.
"Roy is Roy, and if I were to bet my life on a game of 5-on-5, I’d bet on whichever team Roy was playing on." by HurraKane212
jscots a peeyomp
http://www.blazersedge.com/2009/1/6/710833/batum-looking-ahead#11245378
by maid tu rek on Jan 10, 2009 10:45 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well
Yeah, you end up getting most of your money back in a refund from the IRS, because what waiter makes enough to not get a refund? But at the same time, 12% of your total sales are automatically reported to the government and if you don’t get a tip (or, less than 12%) you is being taxed on money you did not really make.
It used to be 8% was reported automatically, now it’s 12%.
So, no matter what your tips end up being, you get taxed on that 12% (whatever the amount is), not that the guv’mint takes 12% away from the total amount. Rereading it, I worded it funny.
But the point remains, when traveling in the USA— Tip! It’s how we roll, and you don’t like it when we don’t roll how you roll when we visit your places of residence :^). Especially in places where waiter’s don’t make a real minimum wage, like in most of the south and middle states (New York too, I believe, but I’m not sure about NYC). In Oregon, Washington, California, waiters make the $7+ minimum wage, but in many states they make $3 or less than $5 bucks an hour, since that state figures that the waiter gets enough from tips to not be paid the minimum wage.
Waiters are the true heroes of our generation.
Mortimer
by Mortimer on Jan 8, 2009 12:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Plus it's a stressful job
in my opinion, i don’t want to do it again….
by Blenzer on Jan 8, 2009 1:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought it was fun
and I made great tips.
Someone said it was because of my accent, but it was pretty tame cause I was so young when I moved to Portland — but I still did have enough to be noticeable.
I think it was my good looks that did it for me, personally. I would have given me a tip if someone as good looking as me was waiting on me.
I never did statistical analysis to see whether women or men gave me better tips, though. Of course, the men would have given me good tips because the women told them to, so that wouldn’t have told me anything.
If you can't convince them, confuse them -- Harry Truman, U.S. President
by jscot on Jan 8, 2009 1:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Older women
LOVED me more than anyone.
I always did well too, and could handle the stress easily. I dunno how someone could make it their career, but to each their own. Most of the people I worked with did not handle dumb people very well, which has always been easy for me.
I think I woulda’ been good looking back in the 40’s and 50’s, so I’m older lady’s type.
It wasn’t a bad way to make money, though the randomness of how much ya made was bothersome, but I always did a good job because it came natural to me… dealing with peoples.
I do not miss it, however.
Mortimer
by Mortimer on Jan 8, 2009 2:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You should have my job b/c I DONT excell at this very well
Most of the people I worked with did not handle dumb people very well, which has always been easy for me.
Sophia
Though patience be a tired mare, yet she will plod. - William Shakespeare
by BlazerFan1 on Jan 8, 2009 9:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Keep a tip record
If you keep good records of your tips, and report tips to your employer like you should… you will be taxed on your actual tips rather than the allocated tips.
Or so I am told
by EngineerScotty on Jan 8, 2009 5:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I am so psyched on Batum
He may be the steal of this draft. He seems so smart on the court. I also think his shooting will end up being very good. How does he always finish so well when many of our veteran players cannot?
by twggyy on Jan 6, 2009 9:23 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Are you guys serious?
Nic has played ok to good in about once every 5 game. Did we suddenly forget his 7 game slump?
I still think he’s gonna be an integral part of this team in about 2-3 years AND will be better than Tayshaun Prince but Nic is about as raw as the sashimi i ate today…
i think crowning him the starting SF of the future today based on the last game is a mistake.
I would take Martell in a hearbeat.
"Step up to my mic!!!" Joel's right and left fist
by broyposse on Jan 6, 2009 10:25 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
no one suggests booting Martell for Nic once Martell is healthy
I don’t think u read this post correctly , its the “future” of Nic and the Blazers. Dheep does an awesome job @ objectively noting Nic’s strengths and weaknesses as they relate to his current role.
|Sophia
Though patience be a tired mare, yet she will plod. - William Shakespeare
by BlazerFan1 on Jan 6, 2009 11:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i think it was a great post...
except again, for the last sentence where he/she said all this points to trading Outlaw or Martell to accommodate his grown…
i’m responding to the post and lovefest in the comments section.
btw, i’m a Nic fan too but he’s been really inconsistent and it seems to me we are using his last game as the measuring stick. which would be awesome if it comes true.
"Step up to my mic!!!" Joel's right and left fist
by broyposse on Jan 6, 2009 11:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
+1 for sushimi
December 18, 2008.
"Roy is Roy, and if I were to bet my life on a game of 5-on-5, I’d bet on whichever team Roy was playing on." by HurraKane212
by maid tu rek on Jan 7, 2009 11:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Naw,
Batum is certainly the steal of the draft. Can that kid get up and down the court or what? And he’s tall …. and long …. and can shoot …. plays defense …. a potential fast break phenom …. plays defense (worth repeating).
Nice, super nice job KP. No way we’re going to be giving Nic up in a trade …. no way (okay, unless it’s for someone in the Kobe caliber).
Nic for King! I love the kid. He can do so much for us in so many ways.
Brandon Roy just destroyed everything in his path. There's your rational analysis -- Dave
by TwoDeep on Jan 6, 2009 10:55 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
that's somewhat weird and odd to say he's not gonna be traded unless its Kobe caliber?
i would trade Nic + Rudy + RLEC for Caron Butler. I’d trade Nic for Tayshaun straight up. I’d trade Nic for Shane Battier…i think you get my drift…
but if we don’t trade him and he continue to grow at the rate he is, i would be ecstatic too.
"Step up to my mic!!!" Joel's right and left fist
by broyposse on Jan 6, 2009 11:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree
By the time the Blazers are realistically ready to win championships (2 or 3 seasons from now), Battier and Prince will be in decline. By contrast, Batum will be entering his prime. I want to see the Blazers contend for a decade, and I envision Batum being a big part of that.
BTW, don’t miss my use of the qualifier, “realistically.” The Blazers COULD win as early as next season. If I didn’t believe that, I’d have a different BE handle! But we’re talking long-shots, and KP needs to plan based on likelihood. The likelihood is that, in the long run, Nic Batum will be considerably more valuable to this franchise than Prince or Battier would be.
"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla
by hurryup09 on Jan 7, 2009 12:00 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i know what you mean...
but its the age old question of “potential” or “now”….i can’t see Battier or Prince in their decline until maybe 3-4 years out. I’m basing that on my off-base thought that Chauncey wouldn’t help the Nuggets because he was in his decline.
So my take would be a casual run for WCF in 2010 and and Finals run in 2011.
I think we really need to make the playoffs this year. If we don’t, i’m scared the mentality of losing/never making it will seep into this club. Someone with the veteran ilk of those guys would help tremendously…better yet, if Nic can learn under them, that would be ideal but then it would be bye bye Martell and potentially Pryz
"Step up to my mic!!!" Joel's right and left fist
by broyposse on Jan 7, 2009 12:16 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
"Loser Mentality?" I don't think so.
Are you seriously worried about this, or is this just a way of excusing your own impatience?
As long as BRoy is the team leader of this group and Nate is the coach, I cant imagine this group is going to feel like losers:
1) They are getting better at a very fast clip, ten games per year for three years in a row.
2) They are on pace for 50+ wins this year. When the schedule gets easier the wins will start piling up.
3) Even if they struggle a bit and end up ninth, of the nine good teams in the WC, they will still have a winning record.
4) I mean these guys are good enough to beat the Champs, w/o our best player and while starting 3 rookies.
Our guys are very young, somewhat inconsistent, still learning how to play together, and how to win. Even if KP doesn’t make a single trade or add another draft pick, these guys are going to be an elite team for the next decade just through natural maturation.
As KP says, “Do not sacrifice the future for the present.” We will probably want to make a trade or two to stregthen our roster or open our window a little sooner, but trading a couple of good young guys for an aging veteran seems short-sighted, unless it is someone very special. Patience, Grasshopper!
by upper left corner on Jan 7, 2009 6:50 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
More likely
Bye, bye Outlaw (and potentially Frye or Diogu).
(Sorry, Ann, but that’s the higher probability)
by DonkeyShins on Jan 7, 2009 12:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So, the Blazers are a boy band?
When do they really start to rock?
by LaoTzu on Jan 7, 2009 12:59 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
when they become men
It doesn't mean you should just because you can. Like Abraham and Ishmael, fighting over sand - it doesn't mean you should just because you can. That is a fact of life. - Adrian Belew
by 22baylor on Jan 7, 2009 1:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
With Martell out longer than expected, Nic gets a more valuable pick by the day
I also totally have to agree with Mortimer. Most athletic forward rookies are all offense, no defense (think Rudy Gay, and he is not even bad on defense. Maybe think Hakim Warrick as a better example). That Nic is already solid on defense with great physical skills, yet can also hit the spot-up three and run the break as good as anyone on this team is ideal for the Blazers. And did we mention he just turned 20? Not often enough. He has a lot of time to get on Prince or Battier level and become a super versatile forward.
by Norsktroll on Jan 7, 2009 12:59 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Great post (rec'd it)
I whole-heartedly agree with the major points of the post. I love watching Nic for his incredibly smooth athleticism and game smarts, plus he runs and finishes the break so effortlessly. I sure hope we keep him and get to watch him develop into a key player on our team.
Just for the record, I’m fine with trading Outlaw to clear space long-term so Martell and Nic can get the get the minutes.
put a body on 'em
by RayBourque on Jan 7, 2009 1:06 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
At this point, my thought is that Outlaw is expendable. It is nice to have a guy who can create his own shot, and who is not afraid to pull the trigger, but Trout is not efficient and has too many lapses on the defensive end. For every good play, he seems to make two bad ones. I am not saying we should get rid of him; I am saying we can afford to trade him, if he is the bait for bringing in the right player.
by upper left corner on Jan 7, 2009 6:56 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He's not expendable
until Martell is back and playing well, unless we’re acquiring another SF.
He’s valuable as injury cover at two positions — if we have two PFs (instead of 5), and one goes down, Travis can play PF for us in a pinch. I agree we can afford to trade him, but his ability to play two positions increases his value to us.
If you can't convince them, confuse them -- Harry Truman, U.S. President
by jscot on Jan 8, 2009 8:31 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't disagree that he has substantial value, and that we need him till Martell returns
I’m just saying that he is someone who could be traded w/o disrupting our core, if the right player was coming back
I refer to Trout as “The Good, the Bad. and the Ugly.” Frequently with Trav, you get all three in the space of a couple of minutes.
by upper left corner on Jan 8, 2009 9:42 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
Just about everyone but Brandon, Greg, and possibly LaMarcus, could be traded without disrupting the core, though.
If you can't convince them, confuse them -- Harry Truman, U.S. President
by jscot on Jan 8, 2009 10:42 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I sort of break it down to 4 tiers
Tier 1: Untouchable (unless LBJ is coming back and maybe not even then): Big 3
Tier 2: Great rotation players, guys I think fit well around the Big 3 and/or guys I expect to develop into great complementary pieces. Very reluctant to trade these guys unless I am getting a very good player in return: Pryz, Batum, Rudy, Bayless, Martell,
Tier 3: Guys who are useful and fill certain needs but have incomplete games and/or who I think are never going to fully develop. Willing to trade for good value: Blake, Sergio, Trout, Channing (on good days)
Tier 4: Spare parts. Won’t hesitate to trade: Channing (on bad days), RLEC, all the rest.
Batum, Bayless, and Martell are in Tier 2 because of potential. I think each has the physical gifts and work ethic to turn into an all-star level player, and I think it would come back to haunt us if we traded them.
by upper left corner on Jan 9, 2009 1:17 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Reasonable
Sergio could reasonably move into Tier 2 as our backup PG. Someone could argue Blake would be Tier 2 already if we had a starter and he was our backup PG.
I suspect that if we were playing Travis for 15-18 mpg, instead of 35, that the weaknesses in his game wouldn’t be so troubling, and we might consider him Tier 2 as well.
But I would probably agree with the way you’ve categorized them, just that some of them may be borderline.
If you can't convince them, confuse them -- Harry Truman, U.S. President
by jscot on Jan 9, 2009 2:26 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Nic seems to have what some Blazers lack, BBIQ.
He’s not going to have a high PER because of his role, but he always seems to be at the right place at the right time. It would be interesting to know how many fast breaks he’s been involved with compared to the amount of minutes he’s played, a fast break PER of sorts.
GO
THE TEACHER ......come into my classroom "THE PAINT" for some tutelage.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"You could hurt somebody in the first row with a shot like that" -
Mike Rice, Portland at Denver 12/22/08
by Blazer1342 on Jan 7, 2009 2:07 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I've never liked Batum
The guy who was super gung ho pro-Batum before the draft then “I told you so” after the draft was a jerk. That jerky guy knocked Batum down a notch and then the pro-Batum/anti-Travis comments that were raging before Batum was made the starter made me say, “Oh my lord, not another Sergio/Jack fan hate relationship.”
I think the best thing for me is for this trade to get done as soon as possible:
by tominhawaii on Jan 7, 2009 3:32 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
The scary thing is that only Rudy has a significantly higher PER.
by Norsktroll on Jan 7, 2009 5:00 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
FINALLY
Trading some of this misty vague POTENTIAL for a known quantity.
To turn the corner and win the playoffs, we have to do this, kids! Grow up both sack-wise and age wise, ladies!
You’ve heard the phrases “Bigs win championships” or “defense wins championships”, right? NO ONE says “20 year old French small forwards wins championships.” Wanna know why they don’t say it? Because no man with TESTICLES thinks so.
So grow a pair, why don’t ya— a pair of balls, and a pair of clues. The time to consolidate is NOW.
Mortimer
by Mortimer on Jan 7, 2009 9:12 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If you can dodge a wrench!
You can dodge a ball!
<clank!>
by DonkeyShins on Jan 7, 2009 12:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Darnit
You sucked me in with how serious the comment sounded. I was so close to not clicking the link. Still, it made me smile
My HDTV is a JustinTV streamer who doesn't just use a webcam :(
by inroywetrust on Jan 7, 2009 9:31 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It doesn't happen that often anymore.
But you got me again Tommy.
Perfect practice makes perfect.
by Ojala John on Jan 8, 2009 8:36 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Love this kid
Now I am a homer.
I have checked out lots of draft profiles of him.What i found is really interesting regarding how he plays in the NBA.
They say he played like a veteran, had all around skills, not mentioning great athleticism.
But he somtimes disappeared on the court, had some confidence problem, couldn’t take over the game while the team needed him,etc.
Why is it interesting is that those characters seem like Brandon Roy.When Brandon was in his freshman or sophomore years, they say exactly the same things.Later,as we know, Roy showed us what he got when he was older.
An SF version of BROY?No way, you are just kidding!But have you seen what Batum is doing in the NBA?He does a lot of small things, with his still raw skills, he has an all-around game.He never forces things, using his skills, not athleticism to play.
He can really play if you let him see more playing time.Last game in LA just showed what he already has.
The problem is here:Do we want him to become a decent role player, or become a Roy-like allstar?if we want to see the latter, should we send him to the D-league to improve some leadership and maturity?Or if we still let him play in the NBA, can he grow to be the player who he should be.
Optimistically I like him to be the next Scottie Pippen or BRoy, but no way.It only happens when everything(coaching, health…)goes right.
Our 2R are basketball geniuses-Roy and Rudy
by asiafan on Jan 7, 2009 6:26 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
He mentioned himself that he became timid at times when all responsibility for his team was resting on his shoulders back in Europe, having to cover the opposing team’s best wing and carry a large part of the offense. Nobody really expects him to lock down a T-Mac, AK47 or Kobe, much less scoring a ton, so he plays more relaxed in that lineup surrounded by other great players.
by Norsktroll on Jan 7, 2009 6:53 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not a bandwagoner
Search my profile and you’ll find a comment from before the draft saying we should pick Batum @ 13. I wanted to let him cook for a bit in Europe, but the point is, this kid is good.
Why does fat chance = slim chance?
by prezofdeath on Jan 7, 2009 7:23 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
and if anyone calls me a Nic Batum bandwagoner....
well….I might just have to pull my musket out of my bandwagon and give ya’ a lesson.
They did use muskets, in those days, right?
Why does fat chance = slim chance?
by prezofdeath on Jan 7, 2009 7:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeh....
..they all carried tuba’s and muskets…..in days of yore
Homer: "Yikes....a bear is eating my father!!"
Selma: "I'm Selma"
Homer: "A talking bear is eating my father!!"
by 92wastheyear on Jan 7, 2009 8:09 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm a NBOF
I didn’t care about the Blazers until Batum and his varoom showed up.
Doesn’t have the same ring as GOOF but I haven’t seen Booby the brain’s protege around for a while.
by fatwansaboni on Jan 7, 2009 7:33 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I'm a huge Batum fan
Just wanted to say that.
Really, I think the Blazers might actually be pondering an Outlaw-for-spare-parts deal just to free up playing time for Nic. He’s a rook so he’s not totally consistent, but he makes things happen, mostly good things, when he’s on the floor. And I love the way he finishes fast breaks.
by Badalona Baddie on Jan 7, 2009 10:54 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
that would not be wise
until after Martell shows up and shows us that he needs colossal minutes. – Elgin
It doesn't mean you should just because you can. Like Abraham and Ishmael, fighting over sand - it doesn't mean you should just because you can. That is a fact of life. - Adrian Belew
by 22baylor on Jan 7, 2009 11:23 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
When Martell comes back
Nic will still start, Martell will come off the bench but play more minute than Nic, and Outlaw will be marginalized.
by rmcdougall on Jan 7, 2009 12:52 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I want to make a T-shirt
It will say,
J’♥
NICO
by robrun2 on Jan 7, 2009 3:39 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
if you do that
can I have 1 please?????????????????????????? Or I’ll just copy you <3
Sophia
Though patience be a tired mare, yet she will plod. - William Shakespeare
by BlazerFan1 on Jan 8, 2009 12:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
How come?
all of our “fan favorite” SFs only play 1 year in our uniform? First Ime…then JJ33. I hope Batum doesn’t follow that trend.
by Philthyanimal on Jan 7, 2009 6:44 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Because they both chased money.
Ime peaked while in Portland, with all of his significant career highs coming while in Portland.
JJ plateaued and was (and still is) having serious health/injury problems. He has yet to play a game for the Heat since leaving us last year, after missing 24 games with Portland in one season.
In retrospect, allowing both players to leave was probably the right decision. Nic has boatloads of potential and shows brilliant athleticism. Good combination.
"Respect everyone, fear no one." -TP
by Arby on Jan 8, 2009 11:55 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Nic Better than Tayshaun?
There are remarkably similar rookie years between Nicolas Batum and Tayshaun Prince thus far. Nic has a few more minutes and a few less games than Tay but close enough to be intrigues by the comparison. Here are the numbers from Basketball-reference.com:
Totals:
Games: Tay _ 42 _ Nic _ 34
Minutes: Tay _ 435 _ Nic _ 582
Starts: Tay _ 5 _ Nic _ 31
Age: Tay _ 22 _ Nic _ 20
Per 36 Minutes:
Points: Tay _ 11.3 _ Nic _ 10.1
FG: Tay __ 44.9 _ Nic _ 44.0%
3FG%: Tay _ 42.6% _ Nic _ 38.4%
FT%: Tay _ 64.7% _ Nic _ 73.3%
ORB: Tay _ 0.4 _ Nic _ 1.8
DRB: Tay _ 3.3 _ Nic _ 3.9
Assists: Tay _ 2.0 _ Nic _ 2.0
Steals: Tay _ 0.8 _ Nic _ 1.1
Blocks: Tay _ 1.2 _ Nic _ 1.1
TO: Tay _ 1.7 _ Nic _ 1.7
Fouls: Tay _ 2.1 _ Nic __ 3.1
Both men are defenders, Nic perhaps even a bit quicker than Tay. Both can shoot from distance although Tay was some better, he was able to produce that against 2nd unit defenders while Nic has gone against starters. Nic is two years behind Tay in age and so I ask you – will Nic have a chance to equal or better Tay?
whoo, Katy bar the door! - Maurice Lucas anticipating Greg Oden's development
by lee3022 on Jan 7, 2009 8:54 PM PST reply actions 5 recs
Nic is a great fit for this team long term
Shots will be at a premium between Roy, LMA, Oden, and the rest of the offensive forces o the squad. Batum will be a lockdown defender who can get buckets in the flow of the game/through transition, and his shot has looked better lately. Steal of the draft at this point
Bayless has been testing the fences for weaknesses
by blazeraddict on Jan 8, 2009 7:07 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
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