Who wishes we had Jarrett Jack back besides me?
by nathTnorman on Jan 6, 2009 1:00 PM PST
74 comments
This three game stretch without Roy has screamed to us (as if we didn't know already) what our most glaring weakness is. That is, of course, we have no one, besides Roy, who can break down the defense, get into the lane, and then either draw a foul, finish, or kick out. NOBODY! Now, if you remember back just a bit, we already had someone who could do this: Jarrett Jack. He can shoot outside well enough to keep a defender from packing it in too much inside. Then he is quick enough AND strong enough to get into the lane. Once there, he is strong enough to finish, draw a foul, or pass out.
Let me count the ways, currently, we can't do this:
1. Blake - Not quick enough or strong enough to consistently break down his defender. Not a threat to draw a foul or score if he does get in the lane.
2. Sergio - Can't get into the lane consistently b/c defender can play off of him b/c of his inconsistent outside shot. Doesn't finish consistently or draw fouls consistently once he does because he is not strong enough.
3. Bayless - Bayless will be able to do this in the FUTURE. But who knows when? Instead of waiting for a 19 year old to mature, we had a guy who could already do this. Yeah, yeah, I know...upside...bah!
4. Wing players - Rudy, Travis, Martell, Batum - Simply said this aspect of basketball is not part of any of their games...thus, they are nearly one-dimensional on offense.
So that leaves us a team of outside shooters that will overly rely on one person (Roy) to make plays. We will never be consistent with this recipe. Damn, we should have kept Jack. You know, I said this before in an earlier post at the beginning of the season and was essentially laughed at and derided...that Jack didn't have enough upside, blah, blah, blah. Well, we didn't (and still don't) need another all-star...we already are going to have three in the near future. What we need is what we had (good life lesson here): a role player who has a varied offensive game. Pritchard got greedy and now we're paying for it.
By the way, Jack is now starting for Indy and is starting to put up really good numbers now that he is getting more minutes...he had 29 and a game winner on Friday....
Who's wit' me?!
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Hell no.
I notice you didn’t list his assist and turnover numbers.
by howlingfantods on Jan 6, 2009 1:06 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I've been anticipating a post like this for a while...
Jack’s scoring stats have been decent as of late… but he still can’t get enough assists (even with that offensive machine Granger at his side) and he’s still turning the ball over like a flapjack cook.
There’s no looking back now.
"When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car"
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Jan 6, 2009 1:08 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Me neither
Homer: "Yikes....a bear is eating my father!!"
Selma: "I'm Selma"
Homer: "A talking bear is eating my father!!"
by 92wastheyear on Jan 6, 2009 1:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
neither myself
"I never scored more than 38, even in Little League." ~ Roy, 52 pts
by shralpster on Jan 6, 2009 1:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
same.
My favorite teams are the Blazers and any team that is playing the Lakers.
by OCBlazerFan1 on Jan 6, 2009 2:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No thanks
"Knowledge will get you from A to B. Creativity will get you anywhere." Einstein
by Garden of ODEN on Jan 6, 2009 9:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
nah-tuh
December 18, 2008.
"Roy is Roy, and if I were to bet my life on a game of 5-on-5, I’d bet on whichever team Roy was playing on." by HurraKane212
by maid tu rek on Jan 7, 2009 1:45 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Nope
Still turnover prone as ever.
Let RudyMania Reign!!
by DowntownChinatown on Jan 6, 2009 11:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I wish him luck. I don't wish him back
He helps the Pacers quite a lot (and even McBob for that matter). But he also already had games again with complete breakdowns in the final minutes, taking shots way too early in the clock (Boston), creating ugly turnovers by dribbling into a crowd and jump passing into disaster (Philly), etc. That would send everyone here screaming to move him all over again.
He arguably would be a better backup than we have now, but the Blazers made a bet that Bayless will be better in the future and was worth giving up those players for. How much better? That’s the gamble.
by Norsktroll on Jan 6, 2009 1:18 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Unfortunately...
JJack’s left something of a legacy in Portland (or maybe it’s best annointed as a virus)… the dreaded jump-pass.
It seems this virus has infected the whole squad this year. I don’t ever remember seeing more players on one team do it. Sergio, Outlaw, Batum, Rudy, Bayless… even the steady hands of Blake and (gasp) Roy. They’ve all done it… and no matter how many times it happens, I find myself stunned that I just saw it again.
Just say no to jump passes.
"When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car"
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Jan 6, 2009 1:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I posted some pictures in the Lakers review
Still, Jack’s pass against Philly was an atrocious turnover to Williams and would have cost them the game if Ford had not won that with a big shot for them.
by Norsktroll on Jan 6, 2009 1:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I was as big a Jack supporter as they get.
I’m glad he’s doing well in Indy, but getting Bayless made up for a lot of that. I think Bayless is pretty close to Jack now. Just a little rust to knock off, and guys to get used to. With that, then upside is hard to ignore.
Poor grammar is poor communication.
Poor communication causes misunderstanding.
Misunderstanding causes fighting.
Fighting causes war.
War causes death.
Therefore, your poor grammar may just kill us all.
(One of Two Official Blazer's Edge Poets Laureate for the 2008-2009 Season)
by T Darkstar on Jan 6, 2009 1:28 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Jack is still better than Sergio.
He would have been our backup PG, but long term it might have caused problems in the development of Sergio and Bayless. Plus, having Sergio in the second unit seems to have given Rudy a smoother transition to the NBA.
by Nick Van Excellent on Jan 6, 2009 1:29 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Jack is way better than Sergio...
Sergio is has developed little this year. All the early remarks on this block about his improvement were very premature. They guy shot twice in LA and only drew backboard on those attempts…. can’t remember the last time jack did that.
by hotstuffdb22 on Jan 6, 2009 1:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It's a scary thing to admit...
the whole Jack > Sergio thing.
That isn’t a good thing for Sergio… it is JJack after all.
"When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car"
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Jan 6, 2009 1:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
exactly...
i’d rather have jack than sergio in the short run…
in the long run… i want neither.
by hotstuffdb22 on Jan 6, 2009 1:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Jack is, was, and ALWAYS will be
better than Sergio.
Good rookies go to bad teams, KP is trying to screw us!!
by In Walks Rudy on Jan 6, 2009 5:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
In his dreams maybe
on the court Sergio is the superior point guard. In 3 years when Sergio is Jack’s age it won’t even be worth comparing anymore.
by as11osu on Jan 6, 2009 9:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
In three years when Sergio is shooting like 30% from the field
it won’t be in the NBA.
Good rookies go to bad teams, KP is trying to screw us!!
by In Walks Rudy on Jan 7, 2009 8:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It not even that close.
Jack just scored 29 points on 10-14 shooting.(including the game winning shot) What are the odds that Sergio ever has a game like that?
by Nick Van Excellent on Jan 6, 2009 6:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Given the way this team plays
for anyone besides Roy to do that, it seems pretty rare. But of course, its the fad these days to knock Sergio. Last year he had to play all of his minutes with Jack as the 2? There are virtually no PG’s in the whole league who would play well trying to deal with that. This year, at least right now, he’s stuck playing with Bayless, who is equally ill-equipped to play the 2. Throw in whomever you want at the 4, and its an impossible scenario. Sergio played extremely well with Rudy, and there is no reason not to expect that success to continue once Roy, and then Martell return.
by as11osu on Jan 6, 2009 9:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He' played with Bayless at the two for like a combined 30 minutes.
I don’t think that’s the problem.
by Nick Van Excellent on Jan 7, 2009 2:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
yep.
"When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car"
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Jan 6, 2009 1:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
negative ghost rider
December 18, 2008.
"Roy is Roy, and if I were to bet my life on a game of 5-on-5, I’d bet on whichever team Roy was playing on." by HurraKane212
by maid tu rek on Jan 7, 2009 1:48 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I defended Jack all last season until the end
when he just couldn’t keep his head in the game.
Bayless will be better. He can get to the basket and breakdown the defense now, he’s just been off the court for three months. In the last few games he’s played I think he’s done a good job of trying to be aggressive while at the same time looking for his teammates. Perhaps he doesn’t see it as his job to be the offensive threat, but is trying to get the rest of the team involved like Brandon does? As far as rookie play goes, I think he’s still got some nervousness to work through. Time is all he needs.
"She turned me into a newt!
A newt?
...I got better."
by Seijeff on Jan 6, 2009 1:41 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Not terribly much
Don’t mind JJ1 as a role player, but I don’t really miss him.
If he were on the waiver wire, and the salary cap could be ignored, I’d certainly pick him up, and send Shavlik “John Ameichi is WHAT? Eww!” Randolph packing…
by EngineerScotty on Jan 6, 2009 1:42 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
the fans in the first row want jack back too.
it was fun to be able to reach out and touch an nba player. only problem was he was dribbling the ball in their laps.
by Ben. on Jan 6, 2009 1:43 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
OK. OK. Maybe I'm in the very small minority about Jack, but...
…you can’t deny the premise of my argument…that is “our most glaring weakness is [that] we have no one, besides Roy, who can break down the defense, get into the lane, and then either draw a foul, finish, or kick out. So that leaves us a team of outside shooters that will overly rely on one person (Roy) to make plays. We will never be consistent with this recipe.”
So what are your ideas on how to fix this problem? The only one that I can think of is start giving many more minutes to Bayless…in the 25 to 30 minute range. Give him all of Sergio’s minutes and some of Blake’s. We need to get him up to speed now.
by nathTnorman on Jan 6, 2009 1:54 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Definitely give him Sergio's minutes...
As per Blake, depends on his FG% and defense…. now that i think of it, same with Bayless…. wait, that might be why we can’t afford to give him more minutes, but maybe we should anyways…. Sergio shouldn’t even be in this conversation
by hotstuffdb22 on Jan 6, 2009 1:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree with this
I disagree with you saying Martell can’t get to the hoop. I think I saw this is the preseason, now maybe I’m wrong but I don’t think having Roy out would hurt nearly as much if we had Marty out there to pick up the scoring slack
by SalemORguy on Jan 6, 2009 4:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
time, we just need time
December 18, 2008.
"Roy is Roy, and if I were to bet my life on a game of 5-on-5, I’d bet on whichever team Roy was playing on." by HurraKane212
by maid tu rek on Jan 7, 2009 1:50 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No no no
and…did I mention no?
"Great Oden's raven!" - Ron Burgandy
by danevan on Jan 6, 2009 1:54 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Um, no
You keep young players, even when they aren’t good enough to be contributors on a contender, for their potential. When a player has NO (none, zero, not at all) improvement in his third year, and he’s still not good enough to contribute on a contender, AND he won your “hardest worker” award so you know his lack of improvement isn’t because of lack of effort, then you begin to conclude that while he might be a nice player for some teams, he’s not going to help you get a championship.
I’ll take the higher potential player, even if it costs us a few wins this year.
Fact: the only games it has mattered, really, is when Brandon has been out, and having Jarrett Jack would not have helped us to win either of the two games we lost. We got thumped by better teams, and Jarrett isn’t good enough to make up that difference, in all likelihood.
I don’t know why people get discontented when we win 1 out of 3 against teams in the top six in the league. That could happen even if Brandon weren’t injured. That we’ve done that with Brandon out is excellent.
We’re doing fine. KP knows what he’s doing. So does Nate. They may not do everything perfect, but the sky is not falling.
Repeat after me. The Sky is NOT Falling.
If you can't convince them, confuse them -- Harry Truman, U.S. President
by jscot on Jan 6, 2009 2:06 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
the only games it has mattered, really, is when Brandon has been out, and having Jarrett Jack
This was what I was thinking, as well. Jack would be a nice alternative to Roy when Brandon is out with an injury. The problem is, Jarrett would not be content sitting around for 30 games (like Bayless) waiting for Roy to tweak his hammy.
We already know that Jack is not a good complimentary guard to play alongside Roy. That’s basically why he was traded. Jarrett considers himself a point guard (ref: interviews from last 2 years) In fact, he’s an NBA combo guard, a poor man’s Brandon Roy. Sure, he could play the 2-guard when Brandon is out of the game, but those minutes are slim and Rudy is a better alternative, both short and long term
Like I said in the other thread, the team misses Jack’s feisty attitude and penetration that led to FTs. But I don’t miss his pouty face when things went wrong (like when he stepped out of bounds, or tried jump passes that led to fastbreak turnovers)
Thankfully, KP turned the “JJ page” last June. Blazer fans should do the same
by two4larue on Jan 6, 2009 2:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
When you say no improvement... you should really talk about Sergio
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/sergio_rodriguez/career_stats.html
His rookie year was his best, and he SUCKED his rookie year.
Good rookies go to bad teams, KP is trying to screw us!!
by In Walks Rudy on Jan 6, 2009 6:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sergio
1. Last year, he had sophomore slump, and didn’t get enough PT to measure. Justifiably, he didn’t get PT, IMO, but that doesn’t change the fact that it didn’t give a real picture.
2. I said when a player doesn’t improve by his third year. Sergio has improved this year in the areas that mattered most to his game — 3 pt shooting and defense. Jarrett didn’t show any substantive improvement in any parts of his game that mattered last year. It just wasn’t there.
3. Jarrett’s lack of improvement came despite significant PT, both last year and the year before. Sergio still isn’t getting significant PT by comparison, so his continued lack of improvement in some areas is not very strong evidence as to his potential.
I liked Jarrett, and thought we did well to give him a year last year to show he was going to be part of the answer for us. What he showed is that he is good enough to play a key role in the rotation of a 41-41 team, but nothing to indicate he would be good enough to have such a role on a championship team.
Sergio hasn’t showed us that yet, either. But he’s had a lot less chance, and we have seen notable improvement this year in key areas. If KP gives up on Sergio this year or in the summer, I won’t say he’s given up too soon, but neither will I be surprised if Sergio is given more time. I think he’s done enough that it can be argued either way.
My general sense is that Sergio is still likely to end up a very, very good PG. I don’t think he’s a great fit with our starting unit, but he shows the potential to be great with our second unit. But he may also be traded.
If you can't convince them, confuse them -- Harry Truman, U.S. President
by jscot on Jan 7, 2009 4:05 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
NO JJ!
We need Jarret Jack about as much as Memphis needs Darius.
Dan in Troutdale (US American)
KP on 2008 draft, "They've shown extraordinary intelligence, even problem-solving. Especially the big one. We bred eight originally, but when Jerryd came in he took over the pride and killed all but two of the others. That one... when he looks at you, you can tell he's working things out."
by Here come the men in black on Jan 6, 2009 2:28 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
Nice association. +1
My favorite teams are the Blazers and any team that is playing the Lakers.
by OCBlazerFan1 on Jan 6, 2009 2:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
lemme try
We need JJ1 as much as Paul Allen needs a government bailout.
Honor Terry Porter
by Philthyanimal on Jan 6, 2009 8:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
JJ is soooo much better
than Sergio. We could use him now – duh! Long-term not.
by oregonslee on Jan 6, 2009 2:39 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
fry and outlaw miss more clean looks from a sergio pass
then jack ever gave the team a chance at. sergio gets alot of seals, is disruptive on defence, and makes a lot of the right passes. sergioes, primary problem is not being able to hit the three, if he could regain any real consistanty, sooooo many of his percieved problems would just disapeer.
December 18, 2008.
"Roy is Roy, and if I were to bet my life on a game of 5-on-5, I’d bet on whichever team Roy was playing on." by HurraKane212
by maid tu rek on Jan 7, 2009 1:57 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Prediction: In two years, Blazers fans will be hating on
Nicolas Batum.
:)
Book it.
by EngineerScotty on Jan 6, 2009 2:47 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Only if there is a rookie SF behind him on the bench
by tominhawaii on Jan 7, 2009 5:53 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, we'll probably have another four rookies on the bench next year
Koponen, Freeland, our first-rounder, and some other rabbit that KP pulls out of a hat.
Odds are, one of them will be a SG/SF, at which point folks will hate Batum.
(And odds are also good that one of them will be cuter than Nic, at which point Sophia will drop the Batum look the U.S. relay team drops the baton…)
by EngineerScotty on Jan 7, 2009 2:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
"Upside...bah!"
I should rec your post just for that line! Too funny.
"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla
by hurryup09 on Jan 6, 2009 2:58 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Jack would be helping us right now (w/o Roy)
but he wouldn’t be happy playing Bayless minutes (that’s all that would be available to him) and long term, Bayless will hopefully be a better version of Jack.
It was still a sound, logical move by Portland but we won’t know for a couple years whether or not it turned out well.
Boomshakalaka
by jksnake99 on Jan 6, 2009 3:47 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
not me!
It’s great if he can excel in Indiana, but he was not going to be the guy the Blazers needed. No doubt in my mind.
rolling hard
by Billy Ray Bates on Jan 6, 2009 4:41 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
agreed
as much as i like sergio…he may excel the same way jack did in atlanta in the right system. if hes not the right fit, i trust that kp will come to that decision. jack clearly would not have had success here this year. we probably would not have drafted bayless had we not traded jack.
Honor Terry Porter
by Philthyanimal on Jan 6, 2009 8:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If Sergio
goes to NY in a Lee trade, he will put up great numbers that make people curse Blake/Bayless, and that won’t be fair. Sergio is a great fit in D’Anotoni’s system (although his lack of a jumper will hurt him) and he will put up ridiculous assist numbers if he leaves. However, I think this is the peak of Sergio’s performance in a halfcourt offensive scheme, so evaluate him/Jack on what they would have done as Blazers.
Bayless has been testing the fences for weaknesses
by blazeraddict on Jan 6, 2009 10:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
maybe
i dunno…even tho jack shown success in indy…it was clear he was not going to be a good fit here…if the same thing happens to sergio i don’t think i would curse at blake or bayless. i cant speak for other sergio fans however. i like everyone on this team…trout included and if any of them were to get traded i would at least show enough interest to follow up on their performances on box scores like i did ime.
Honor Terry Porter
by Philthyanimal on Jan 6, 2009 10:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No thanks...
Jack isn’t my type of point guard. His style of play is exactly why I am not on the same page as most on Bayless. I am simply not a fan of score first point guards, I think it disrupts the offense in some ways. There is too much one on one offense when your pg is at his best driving to the hoop. If Bayless does ultimately play pg, he will likely fit this mold and that is why I am not convinced he has a bright future with the blazers.
I understand the need for someone that can drive and attack the rim. I think its great and probably necessary to have a player whose main strength is getting to the hoop, but I prefer for that not to be the point guard. Jack would be a better backup 2 than Bayless, but I still don’t believe he is a better point guard than Sergio. It might be nice to have Jack because Roy is hurt, but otherwise, no thanks….
RUDY > MJ
by myemic23 on Jan 6, 2009 4:44 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
i'll agree
i like scoring pgs…they can have good success in the league as individual players, but rarely do their teams have much success in the post season. i’m not just talking championships, but deep playoff runs. i still am not convinced that jack was better…or much better than sergio. he may have been a better fit for nate, but overall i still believe that sergio is better in an uptempo offense than jack was at the half court offense…and sergio is better in the halfcourt offense than jack is at uptempo. you’d think someone with as much “veteran experience” as jack would learn to adjust to the out of bounds line after the 3rd time he did it in a row.
Honor Terry Porter
by Philthyanimal on Jan 6, 2009 8:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
negative
Though patience be a tired mare, yet she will plod. - William Shakespeare
by BlazerFan1 on Jan 6, 2009 6:43 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
To be fair..
He was our leader in technical fouls. That’s gotta count for something. Are you telling Jarrett Jack wouldn’t have thrown that punch at Tyson Chandler? He gave us balls, that’s al I’m saying.
by TheTinfoil on Jan 6, 2009 7:06 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Great guy
but he had no future in Portland. He would not be happy with the limited minutes that would have been available had he been retained, and I’ll take Bayless over Jack any day of the week
Bayless has been testing the fences for weaknesses
by blazeraddict on Jan 6, 2009 8:11 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
if there was a poll
there would be an overwhelming majority choosing no….myself included.
Honor Terry Porter
by Philthyanimal on Jan 6, 2009 8:39 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Blech!
the people have spoken. you’re on your own and this post is done
The Blazers as a whole are far more like my wife than like me in the sense of their physicality on defense.
-Dave
by chrischa on Jan 6, 2009 8:39 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
NOT!
I’ve read two tons of Jack hate and I still can’t attribute it to anything more than a fan base that needs an object for their bitterness and hate. Let it be me damn you, let it be me!
Okay yes, Jack made all the mistakes that everyone credits him for but he also drove hard to the hole, which no one else would do, and worked hard on both ends. The way Nate played him was the damn problem. This year it’s Outlaw that stays in way too long and Travis makes waaaay more blunders than Jack did. Course there is a big time Outlaw hate going on and I’ve screamed at the TV for him to stop playing stupid… but I’ve only been madder a few times than Nate leaving Blake in the other night when he was stinking up the court like a herd of angry skunks.
Anyway, I like (liked Jack) though he did frustrate me at times and I’m only kidding about you all be hate filled bitter beans.
by Blazersaurus on Jan 6, 2009 11:05 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Sergio will never be as good as JJ
But it’s not about his play on the court, it’s about what he contributes to the team by helping getting Rudy acclimated.
by tominhawaii on Jan 7, 2009 5:57 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I miss some of what JJ1 brought
but ultimately I like Bayless better.
Bayless is not as good as Jack now, but he has a chance to be MUCH better.
Playing time was freed up. Webster and Roy back will add more dimension to this team. I think we’re really missing webster right now because we actually have TWO starters out.
Jack IS better than sergio in the short term. Three years from now, who knows. Sergio hasn’t shown as much growth as I’d like, but he has improved.
Do I want JJ1 back. No. Loved the guy, but I’m hoping for good things out of bayless and I’ll take the risk that Bayless doesn’t deliver because I think the odds are in the Blazers favor and because of the playing time the trade freed up.
Greg Oden, where posters happen.
by ratbastird on Jan 7, 2009 7:15 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
umm...NO WAY!!!!
Let’s see for every 1 assist he gets, he gets at least 1 turnover.
Red Hot and Rolling
by BlazerFan88 on Jan 7, 2009 9:33 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
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