Darius Miles Revisited
by Dave on Jan 6, 2009 12:12 AM PST
147 comments
There's been a lot of hand-wringing going on since Darius Miles played his first game for the Memphis Grizzlies Sunday night. The angst surrounding the Darius Watch is almost palpable.
Quick question: Why?
Even if it goes the worst possible direction the Darius Miles situation is a disaster for the Blazers like Pabst Blue Ribbon is a full-bodied beer...like a velvet Elvis is chic décor...like Screech and John Bobbitt are top-notch porn stars.
Of course it would be better for the Blazers overall if Darius didn't play 10 games this year. But even if he plays those games (and that's a big "if"), his salary returning to the cap won't stop the Blazers from doing anything truly vital in their master plan.
Let's go over the situation again.
1. Memphis or somebody else has to sign him in order to make this work.
The Grizzlies have until tomorrow (edit: or Saturday, whichever...it's SOON) to guarantee Miles' contract for the rest of the year. Right now he's on a non-guaranteed deal which gives them no further obligation to him. As it stands he's not signed past this week. If they don't think he can play they're not going to keep him.
Sunday's earth-shaking outing consisted of Miles playing 2 minutes and registering zero marks in the stat line. None. This isn't confidence-inspiring material. By all accounts he was moving slowly. That's not something you want out of an athletic small forward. The situation isn't looking great for Darius.
If Miles is released he could be signed to 10-day contracts still. No team can sign him to more than two consecutive 10-days without paying his salary for the rest of the year, just as the Grizzlies would have to do if they kept him. In order for those consecutive 10-days to hurt Portland not only would Darius have to be signed to them, he'd have to actually play. 9 games in 20 days doesn't sound like much but unless he's signed during a brutal part of the schedule that's playing in pretty much every game for the entire 20-day stretch. This for a guy brand-new to the team.
Neither the Grizzlies scenario nor the 10-day scenario are impossible, but there's no reason to speculate either will happen until one or the other actually does.
2. The Blazers aren't fatally crippled even if Miles' salary goes back on the cap.
As a quick look at Storyteller's fine site will tell you, the Blazers don't just have the potential to be under the cap next year, they have the potential to be WAAAYYYY under the cap.
The players the Blazers are committed to contractually--Roy, Aldridge, Oden, Przybilla, Webster, Bayless, Fernandez, Batum, and Rodriguez--total around $32.3 million in salary next year. If the salary cap stays relatively even (most of the time it goes up, but we'll be conservative) it will be around $59 million. Even tacking on $1.5 million or so for a first-round pick leaves the Blazers the option to be $25 million below the salary cap. Again, this is a conservative estimate.
Some of that $25 million undoubtedly will be used to retain players we already have. Here are the costs:
Steve Blake-- $4 million
Travis Outlaw-- $3.6 million
Channing Frye-- $12.9 million cap hold until he re-signs, then whatever he signs for (likely $4.3 million)
Ike Diogu-- $12 million cap hold until he re-signs, then whatever he signs for (likely $3.9 million)
You can treat that list like the appetizer menu. If you want a Blake to go with your main course you can certainly afford him. You can afford a Blake and Outlaw or a Blake and Frye too and still have plenty left in your budget. Obviously the Blazers are not going to let those cap holds last for long. They'll either re-sign the players in question, trade them, or cut them.
The point is, the Blazers could look at retaining a couple of those players and still have $18 million to play with.
Darius Miles' salary for 2009-10 is $9 million. Yes, that cuts the cap room in half. But that doesn't prevent the Blazers from pursuing any option they desire.
If the Blazers wanted to spend $16-18 million on one guy, which is the scenario the Miles contract would make most difficult, you have got to figure that they're banking on that guy being a superstar. Without the Miles contract on the cap you could sign that superstar free and easy. With the Miles contract you have to make a simple decision: is that superstar worth cutting a couple of your other players like Blake and Outlaw? If you're spending that kind of money the answer had better be yes. In that case, problem solved. The resolution will be more painful than it would have otherwise been but Miles wouldn't have stopped the move.
The superstar signing scenario is among the least likely possibilities, however. Unless the Blazers are thinking about Allen Iverson (gack!) there just aren't that many of them available on the free agent market this summer. If Portland wants a big-name, big-salary player they're probably going to have to trade for him. In that case the Miles contract won't hurt much. Almost no team in the league is going to dump a legitimate talent for $18 million in cap space alone. They're going to want players in return. Those players' salaries are going to add up to enough that $9 million in cap space is just about as good as $18 million. $9 million will bridge just about any trade gap you can name. You might have to throw in one more player to make the numbers work, but if you're getting Your Guy that's not going to hurt much.
If you're not talking superstars at all, but just good players, then $9 million with raises is going to be enough to sign anyone you want. There's a little-talked-about truism about NBA salaries I'll share with you. Once off of their rookie scales superstars make $14 million and up. Good role players make $9 million and below. You know who falls in that $9-13 million range? Overpaid B+ players. There are a couple exceptions, but for the most part it's true. You don't want those guys and you don't want to be paying those guys their expensive tweener salaries. If you're not looking at $15 million, $8-9 will more than do.
Obviously this is even more so if you're talking about trading for players making $9 million or less instead of signing them outright. Miles won't hurt those prospects at all. Kevin Pritchard can indulge every kid-in-the-candy-store fantasy he ever had with that much money available.
3. The Blazers still have Raef LaFrentz's contract
Portland will know soon if the Grizzlies are keeping Miles. It should be painfully obvious by next month's trade deadline whether he's capable of playing enough 2-minute shifts to get reinstated on our cap. With Raef LaFrentz's $12.7 million expiring contract available the Blazers don't have to wait until this summer for $9 million in wiggle room to make trades. They have 141% of that figure available right now, Miles or no Miles.
Keep in mind too, whether it's $12.7 million for the next six weeks or $9 million this summer that space pairs beautifully with the young, incredibly cheap players we have to trade with. Now or later it's a powerful combination. This is the avenue Portland is most likely to take advantage of and it's the avenue least affected by the Miles situation.
4. The Blazers have a plan.
Until this year nobody knew that Darius Miles would accept medical retirement. Up until the minute he signed the papers the Blazers were planning on getting the job done with his contract still counting against them. I remember thinking when the news was announced, "This is really, really fortunate for us." But championships are not built on fortune alone. The retirement was a nice bonus, not the cornerstone of Portland's future. If Kevin Pritchard and company didn't have a plan for this exact situation I'll eat my old Rasheed Wallace jersey unsalted. If nothing else they just have to return to their old pre-retirement plan. Don't tell me the next six months weren't circled on their calendars long before Miles left.
Add it all up and this 10- (now 9-) game countdown is an inconvenience, nothing more. Portland fans don't have to sweat it. Even if the worst happens all the options available before Miles' salary returns will still be available after. At worst we'll have to take an extra step to execute them. Those steps have never been an issue for our decision-makers.
Case closed.
--Dave (blazersub@yahoo.com)
3 recs |
147 comments
|
Email
Print
Comments
Why is Memphis doing this?
Because of this.
"When I have the ball, I experiment." #5
by Sabonis4Ever on Jan 6, 2009 12:21 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
lol
gotta’ be.
Why does fat chance = slim chance?
by prezofdeath on Jan 6, 2009 12:45 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
wow, I don’t know how I haven’t seen that before.
That was great.
by pklym on Jan 6, 2009 12:49 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sergio's passes
were more impressive than Travis’s dunks in that clip. Right on the money from half court.
"...we have so many experts who think that you have to play defense, you have to rebound, you have to be a possession coach, you have to execute. I just laugh. Explosive offense is not as intimidating as dominant defense. But it is scary when you don't know how to stop someone." - George Karl, Nuggets coach
by jamon51 on Jan 6, 2009 12:50 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks
Never hurts to watch that one again
"Rudy’s flashy passes had the place whispering to each other like we were in junior high" ~BlazermaniacAndy
by courtsideerrandboy on Jan 6, 2009 9:59 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Quick fact check: Your NBA calendar seems to work different than mine
Contracts become guaranteed on Saturday Jan. 10 afaik. Maybe a team would have to waive a player on Friday by a certain time, not sure about that. Leaves the Grizzlies with training and two or three games to check him out (likely win against the Wolves, likely losses against the Nets and finally the Raptors). Yet if they had intended to just sign him to screw our cap space: Why not sign him early in the season? I’m not saying that isn’t part of their plan, I just think they are desperate enough to go with such players on the deep end of their bench (Walker now bought out, Jaric, Buckner, Francis, now Miles). He will play the ten games. KP will petition for the salary to come back off, with an outcome no expert I have heard of can predict for sure. If it’s declined, we are left with not enough cap space to sign a max free agent unless Tom Penn finds some magic trick. We will still have the MLE and enough to sign another impact player next season, it’s just not the huge cap space scenario people have been talking about. And it makes a trade involving RLEC somewhat more likely.
by Norsktroll on Jan 6, 2009 12:33 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
the 1/7 date came from an initial article by tillery. if it’s his mistake, i passed it on, which dave might have picked up…
i saw the 1/10 date in an espn article over the weekend as well, haven’t tracked down the final answer but i’ll go with 1/10.
by Ben. on Jan 6, 2009 12:52 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
if i could email you a cookie i would :)
by Ben. on Jan 6, 2009 12:55 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
1/7 is my birthday. Probably that's why Dave thought it would be important. Eat a cookie for me :)
by Norsktroll on Jan 6, 2009 12:56 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The checksum is 4, but there ain’t no 4 in it.
by Norsktroll on Jan 6, 2009 12:59 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
31
"...we have so many experts who think that you have to play defense, you have to rebound, you have to be a possession coach, you have to execute. I just laugh. Explosive offense is not as intimidating as dominant defense. But it is scary when you don't know how to stop someone." - George Karl, Nuggets coach
by jamon51 on Jan 6, 2009 1:00 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
my head just exploded can you confirm or deny mr. jamon for us layfolk
by Ben. on Jan 6, 2009 1:03 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Confirm. Albeit being 22 again wouldn’t be all bad…
by Norsktroll on Jan 6, 2009 1:08 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You're too mature for 13 or 22
it had to be 31.
Oh, and as for Ben, there are 10 types of people in this world: those who understand binary and those who don’t.
"...we have so many experts who think that you have to play defense, you have to rebound, you have to be a possession coach, you have to execute. I just laugh. Explosive offense is not as intimidating as dominant defense. But it is scary when you don't know how to stop someone." - George Karl, Nuggets coach
by jamon51 on Jan 6, 2009 10:55 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
OK...I edited the first incident and generalized the others
Either way, it’s this week. Should have fact-checked that more carefully.
—Dave
by Dave on Jan 6, 2009 1:04 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This means clohes Dobby.
"When I have the ball, I experiment." #5
by Sabonis4Ever on Jan 6, 2009 1:37 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Norsktroll
You’re right that no expert as of yet can say definitively how the league would rule in the case of an appeal by the Blazers to have Darius’ salary stay off their books – simply because such a ruling has never been made in a case like this (this being the first such case). However, I personally believe that the Blazers would win such a petition. My reasons?
1) According to Larry Coon, the provision about salary going back against the cap (http://nbpa.com/cba_articles/article-VII_4.php – it’s in [h]4) was intended to keep a team from circumventing the cap by re-signing their own player later to a lower salary. It wasn’t intended to allow one team to punish another team by signing their ‘disabled’ player.
2) Intent is paramount when it comes to the CBA. Article XIII (http://nbpa.com/cba_articles/article-XIII.php) is all about possible attempts to circumvent the intent of the CBA – even when language might leave open the opportunity for such circumvention.
That’s why I’ve been so adamant in my belief that Darius’ salary won’t be on the Blazer’s books in July. I could absolutely be wrong, and I know that my position is not one of the ‘worst case scenario’ for the Blazers – but that’s why I believe the way I do.
Love reading your posts and interacting with you about CBA/salary issues – and the way you and others help keep me both honest and up to date. Keep up the great posts!
by Storyteller on Jan 6, 2009 9:36 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I tried to outline that possibility to appeal based on the intent of the section in my post. I hope you are right
I have read diverging statements from Coon and people on RealGM claiming to have spoken with him and other experts. If I remember correctly, posts said Darius plays 10 games the salary comes back on our books “automatically” as the new default state and there is nothing the Blazers can immediately do against it. They can appeal it based on what you said about the intent, yet it’s unclear after what time (e.g. only after the season has ended or a year has passed) and again after what time the NBA would rule on that. I fear a bit that we might get what we want in the end and the ruling goes in favor of removing the salary from our books, but it would be too late for the summer of 2009. That the insurance pays the money afterwards is probably not very important to Allen.
by Norsktroll on Jan 6, 2009 10:09 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Everything I've read from Larry Coon
says that if Darius plays in 10 games, the wording of the CBA would put Darius’ salary back on the Blazers’ books. That seems to be without dispute. However, he also writes about the original intent of the CBA, in accordance with what we’ve both written (it was intended to cover a team re-signing its own disabled FA). And, as I said earlier, my own reading of the CBA leads me to believe that intent is king – even over specific wording.
Larry also gives his own opinion that even if Darius’ contract goes back on the Blazers’ cap again and stays there, that the league should change the wording of the CBA passage to match the original intent with which it was written.
The timing of such an appeal? I’ve read the arguments that the Blazers would have to wait a year and they’re wrong. The passages in the CBA that they quote apply to a player who has an injury deemed career-threatening who comes back to his original team and then retires again. That passage doesn’t have any relevance to this situation. I think I can say with pretty good assurance that the team would insist that the league make a ruling before July 1st – and there would be ample time for that to take place (especially since the Grizzlies will complete their season in April).
by Storyteller on Jan 6, 2009 10:41 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This:
There’s a little-talked-about truism about NBA salaries I’ll share with you. Once off of their rookie scales superstars make $14 million and up. Good role players make $9 million and below. You know who falls in that $9-13 million range? Overpaid B+ players. There are a couple exceptions, but for the most part it’s true. You don’t want those guys and you don’t want to be paying those guys their expensive tweener salaries. If you’re not looking at $15 million, $8-9 will more than do.
…helped immensely. It’s nice to have a reference point when we’re discussing so many zeros.
"...we have so many experts who think that you have to play defense, you have to rebound, you have to be a possession coach, you have to execute. I just laugh. Explosive offense is not as intimidating as dominant defense. But it is scary when you don't know how to stop someone." - George Karl, Nuggets coach
by jamon51 on Jan 6, 2009 12:39 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I'd actually say the trend is changing
after the splurging on max contracts a few years back, you’re seeing more and more guys at solid value in the $9-13 million range. At the very least, I’d say it’s getting close to a 50-50 split now that GMs have wised up and not maxed out every marginally good guy on their team.
Just looking at a quick rundown from Storyteller:
Overpaid guys in 9-13 range:
Okafor, Gerald Wallace, Diaw, Hughes. Hinrich, Deng, Nocioni, Gooden, Wally, Dampier, K-Mart, Crawford, Magette, Murphy, Dunleavy, Nesterovic, Camby, Blount, Miller, Bobby Simmons, Curry, Mobley, Harrington, Q-Rich, Dalembert, Iguodala, Jason Richardson, Brad Miller, Kenny Thomas, Jamison
Decent to Good value guys in that range:
Josh Smith, Ilgauskas, Mo Williams, Josh Howard, Jason Terry, Billups, Nene, Rip Hamilton, Prince, Ellis, Biedrins, Kaman, Al Jefferson, Devin Harris, Chandler, David West, Andre Miller, Steve Nash, Kevin Martin, Tony Parker, Manu, Calderon, Okur, Boozer (not for long), Butler
I know you can argue some of those guys maybe are placed wrong, but I gave a little leeway on the low end, more like a 8-13 range. Note that for the most part, the good value guys were signed relatively recently and for the most part, by good GMs, while the overpaid guys are mostly the result of bad GMing, and older contracts. See how there are 5 Chicago guys on there (a couple make up for the Ben Wallace signing), and 3 Dumars signings on the good value list.
As fewer and fewer guys are getting maxed out (I think Paul and DWill were the only guys from the past rookie class), there are more and more deals to be found in this whole sub-max salary bracket. Especially as guys have seen Ben Gordon’s idiotic negotiations blow up on him, so guys won’t try the same type of brinksmanship as much just because they want to get maxed out. $8-9 million will probably be enough to grab pretty much anyone we’d want if we can’t land a superstar, but there are more and more deals to be had in this range.
by Royster on Jan 6, 2009 1:33 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd be happy
to get Billups, Prince, Harris, Parker, or Butler in that range.
Actually, there’s more of those guys I’d be happy with, too. But those are guys that just might fit really well with us. Too bad none of them are available.
If you can't convince them, confuse them -- Harry Truman, U.S. President
by jscot on Jan 6, 2009 3:25 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Tony Parker
is a premier player, arguably a franchise player, so yeah that would be a great deal.
"...we have so many experts who think that you have to play defense, you have to rebound, you have to be a possession coach, you have to execute. I just laugh. Explosive offense is not as intimidating as dominant defense. But it is scary when you don't know how to stop someone." - George Karl, Nuggets coach
by jamon51 on Jan 6, 2009 10:57 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
+ 1 Million for Prince.
I really <3 him.
Rudy for ROY
Campaign 08-09
"Rudy is not everyday a shooter." ~Rudy Fernandez
by twiggs on Jan 6, 2009 12:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
New conspiracy theory: Jerry West wants to prevent us from signing Kobe Bryant next year ;-)
by Norsktroll on Jan 6, 2009 1:55 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Man I wish the Blazers could sign him
I don’t know why, but I’m falling in love with Kobe.
by tominhawaii on Jan 6, 2009 6:36 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Tom
this is a family blog
"...we have so many experts who think that you have to play defense, you have to rebound, you have to be a possession coach, you have to execute. I just laugh. Explosive offense is not as intimidating as dominant defense. But it is scary when you don't know how to stop someone." - George Karl, Nuggets coach
by jamon51 on Jan 6, 2009 10:58 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Even perverts have families.
hakkaa päälle !
by timg56 on Jan 6, 2009 11:18 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
IF for some reason the Grizz cut Miles
Can we pick him up again and continue paying him his outlandish salary? And then could we pay him extra monies to go to the D-League or to Europe so he’s not bothering our real team? Could we let him go to Europe and get a contract over there and we would still retain his rights, ala Josh Childress, and then be able to use his contract for a bargaining chip with teams looking to clear capspace in 2010?
Why does fat chance = slim chance?
by prezofdeath on Jan 6, 2009 12:48 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
We'd have to waive someone
I don’t know about the legalities of the rest of it though.
"...we have so many experts who think that you have to play defense, you have to rebound, you have to be a possession coach, you have to execute. I just laugh. Explosive offense is not as intimidating as dominant defense. But it is scary when you don't know how to stop someone." - George Karl, Nuggets coach
by jamon51 on Jan 6, 2009 12:51 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
*waive someone for a roster spot
"...we have so many experts who think that you have to play defense, you have to rebound, you have to be a possession coach, you have to execute. I just laugh. Explosive offense is not as intimidating as dominant defense. But it is scary when you don't know how to stop someone." - George Karl, Nuggets coach
by jamon51 on Jan 6, 2009 12:51 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Even if it's possible
Darius still has that tricky “free will” thing going on. Assuming part of his goal is revenge, he wouldn’t want to sign with Portland just to sit.
by Timmay! on Jan 6, 2009 12:53 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought KP
had this tricky “mind control” thing going on. That’s what everybody keeps telling me.
If you can't convince them, confuse them -- Harry Truman, U.S. President
by jscot on Jan 6, 2009 3:26 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought you were the one with the tricky mind control thing
hakkaa päälle !
by timg56 on Jan 6, 2009 7:46 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I made you post that
If you can't convince them, confuse them -- Harry Truman, U.S. President
by jscot on Jan 6, 2009 9:55 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You must have.
As it is so out of character for me.
hakkaa päälle !
by timg56 on Jan 6, 2009 11:14 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The league should change the ruling anyway
but you’re right, this situation isn’t a huge disadvantage to the Blazers. Thanks for the breakdown—very well explained.
I gotta think, though, that this will sour relations with Memphis if they go through with it. Seriously, the potential benefit that Miles could bring to them basketball-wise is quite small. He never could shoot, was lackadaisical on defense, and had several other large, gaping holes in his game. His two really good attributes were athleticism and finishing around the hoop. The athleticism is a mediocre bet at best, so are you going to try and turn him into a back to the basket power forward now? To me, that’s about all he’d be effective at, and his lack of ability to defend bigs would defeat that experiment out of hand.
The risks they take are not insignificant: they risk alienating Portland as a potential trading partner, risk disrupting what little chemistry they do have, risk him being a poor role model for their young players, risk some salary and a roster spot that could be used developing another prospect.
Again: where is the basketball benefit to Memphis? I see the potential to stick it to the Blazers—that’s all.
"...we have so many experts who think that you have to play defense, you have to rebound, you have to be a possession coach, you have to execute. I just laugh. Explosive offense is not as intimidating as dominant defense. But it is scary when you don't know how to stop someone." - George Karl, Nuggets coach
by jamon51 on Jan 6, 2009 12:49 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Benefit to Memphis?
He’s cheap, has talent, and might turn out to be a player for them for virtually nothing. It’s a very low-cost gamble.
If all he ever does is play 2 minutes of garbage time, it alienates Portland. If he sticks and plays for them, then they got him as a player, not just to stick Portland. I don’t buy the idea that they are doing this to stick Portland. In fact, if they keep him and Portland appeals, they might even support the appeal. Who knows?
It isn’t as if they were short for roster spots and cut a young talent to get him. They had open roster spots. It’s a low cost gamble to try and get a cheap talent. Memphis is all about cheap.
If you can't convince them, confuse them -- Harry Truman, U.S. President
by jscot on Jan 6, 2009 3:30 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
lol you must not know Darius Miles
The chance of him becoming a player is zero
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on Jan 6, 2009 6:47 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I tend to agree
but that’s the reason they are doing this. It isn’t about messing with Portland.
If you can't convince them, confuse them -- Harry Truman, U.S. President
by jscot on Jan 6, 2009 9:56 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
How do you know?
"...we have so many experts who think that you have to play defense, you have to rebound, you have to be a possession coach, you have to execute. I just laugh. Explosive offense is not as intimidating as dominant defense. But it is scary when you don't know how to stop someone." - George Karl, Nuggets coach
by jamon51 on Jan 6, 2009 11:01 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Cost-benefit analysis
The benefit to them of messing with Portland is relatively minor. It isn’t as if they are going to contend for a championship in the next three years, so our cap space is pretty irrelevant.
The potential cost is pretty high. They stick it to us, and they make enemies. Not only that, they get a reputation, and it isn’t a nice one. Open warfare between teams isn’t good for the league, and if the league is hurt, everyone is hurt. OK, it happens on the court sometimes, but not so much with the front offices.
A team that appears to be manipulating the rules to their advantage or to hurt another team usually has expensive consequences. Memphis is NOT into expensive consequences.
If you can't convince them, confuse them -- Harry Truman, U.S. President
by jscot on Jan 6, 2009 1:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I understand that
but that leaves me with one conclusion: Memphis is run by a bunch of idiots who can’t tell their butt from a hole in the ground. Even Isiah Thomas would know that Darius (for all the reasons I listed above) will never be the player he once was, and what he was wasn’t even that great.
So even if the risk is low, the reward is lower. That’s why I keep wondering if there’s more to it than just basketball.
"...we have so many experts who think that you have to play defense, you have to rebound, you have to be a possession coach, you have to execute. I just laugh. Explosive offense is not as intimidating as dominant defense. But it is scary when you don't know how to stop someone." - George Karl, Nuggets coach
by jamon51 on Jan 6, 2009 11:01 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The angst surrounding the Darius Watch is almost palpable. Quick question: Why?
quick answer: well, it’s 9 million dollars, lol.
but this explanation was sorely needed. i rec’d it even though that’s probably against some rule.
by Ben. on Jan 6, 2009 12:53 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I know why
People add Raef LaFrentz’s $12.7 million dollar contract to that $9 million and think that the Blazers are going to sign a player for pert near $22 million. That’s superstar money man! If we had a guy making $22 million on the Blazers roster that would mean the Blazers would win like 10 championships.
If you look at the top 10 salaries on HoopsHype, the thought of signing a player from that group makes me think anything is possible. (Even though only about 3.5 of those players deserve their salary.)
by tominhawaii on Jan 6, 2009 6:53 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Who is Steve Francis???
I was just looking at HoopsHype and the blazers have 17 mil of his contract??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fj8DgWnbVng&feature=bz303
MVP *** MVP *** MVP
I've never scored more than 38 ..... not even in Little League.
by Portland89 on Jan 6, 2009 7:49 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Assuming you're serious
A very talented point guard with serious issues and squandered talent. Part of the trade that got rid of Zach and landed us Frye/Rudy. Blazers then waived him, but we’re still paying the difference of his salary for whatever team he’s currently on. I don’t remember if that vanishes after this year or next.
Greg Oden, where posters happen.
by ratbastird on Jan 6, 2009 8:08 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Who is Zach?
If you can't convince them, confuse them -- Harry Truman, U.S. President
by jscot on Jan 6, 2009 9:57 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
What is this Blazers you speak of?
"...we have so many experts who think that you have to play defense, you have to rebound, you have to be a possession coach, you have to execute. I just laugh. Explosive offense is not as intimidating as dominant defense. But it is scary when you don't know how to stop someone." - George Karl, Nuggets coach
by jamon51 on Jan 6, 2009 11:02 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Why is everyone going off topic?
Why are we talking about basketball, instead of expounding on the many uses for dead cats.
hakkaa päälle !
by timg56 on Jan 6, 2009 11:21 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
also maybe there’s a moral angle to the angst. like some repressed guilt, confusion or discombobulation if darius were to beat the odds. a lot of people (media included) wrote him completely off.
i think that’s probably part of it…. if it does happen that should dissipate.
by Ben. on Jan 6, 2009 1:05 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Jaynes HIPAA article created a lot of dust if I remember correctly. Likely the reason why the Blazers are keeping completely mum now.
by Norsktroll on Jan 6, 2009 1:10 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
canzano also was very outspoken on his radio show about darius throughout the summer, with a lot of people supporting his view.
by Ben. on Jan 6, 2009 1:12 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I just wish the whole Darius thing would go away
He’s like a corpse that you’ve buried and you have to keep moving it to avoid detection from the authorities. The sooner we get a friend with a boat and a lot of heavy chains, the better off we’ll be.
by tominhawaii on Jan 6, 2009 6:57 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You need to watch more Dexter...
as a boat and heavy chains don’t always work.
by torsoheap on Jan 6, 2009 8:05 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It's that the cartoon with the mad scientist kid?
by tominhawaii on Jan 6, 2009 8:23 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No,
it’s on Showtime and is not for the younguns: http://www.sho.com/site/dexter/home.do.
by torsoheap on Jan 6, 2009 8:30 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, I blew all my TV money on league pass
by tominhawaii on Jan 6, 2009 9:01 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Dexters Lab
Was my favorite cartoon as a kid. Now my favorite cartoon is Metalocalypse.
"When I have the ball, I experiment." #5
by Sabonis4Ever on Jan 6, 2009 10:15 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Remember when Brandon Roy got knee surgery in the offseason and we all freaked out
and I felt worse than when I got a divorce and was hoping not slip away and fly off my balcony onto the picket fence in the backyard? That was like the ULTIMATE freak out session aside from Oden but I wasn’t here for THAT little episode. Then remember how it turned out to be so little of an issue and Brandon started the pre season fine and dandy? That’s the feeling I have in regards to this Darius issue. I feel like we are having a major freak out session and then this will all go to the wayside and we will forget about him and the contract and everything else b/c it will turn out fine and dandy.
Sophia
Though patience be a tired mare, yet she will plod. - William Shakespeare
by BlazerFan1 on Jan 6, 2009 1:36 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
hoping not slip edit : "hoping to slip"
Though patience be a tired mare, yet she will plod. - William Shakespeare
by BlazerFan1 on Jan 6, 2009 1:37 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hope you're right.
I tend not to freak out about many things re: Blazers anymore. I feel that KP is the second coming and you know, the man’s gonna take care of things.
Darius potentially hurting cap room? Sure, it sucks, but it’s workable. Plus, as we found out, Darius is really good at effing things up.
Injuries? Well, if we had a super old team, it’d worry me more, but I can’t pretend I didn’t crap a birthday cake when I found out Roy went down. And I think might’ve cried in public when Oden’s injury first came to light. Other than that I’ve got real perspective here.
I just figure that until the current administration (still talking Blazers here) screws up (which I feel they have not) I am going to continue to put my blind faith and trust behind them. Because KP WAS a “Chemistry Major”.
Catalina-Wine-Mixer.
by ArbyOSU on Jan 6, 2009 8:03 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
there was briefly a site
that someone put up a fanshot linking to a site with un-televised games in which i watched a grizz/suns battle; the suns announcers talked briefly about the the Miles issue, simply summing it up with “Paul Allen has more money than God, so… …blah blah blah Shaq is amazing to watch”
Activate Shavlik Randolph
by appel82 on Jan 6, 2009 9:20 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
my point is that that statement suffocated any small puff of worry about this issue i may have ever had
Activate Shavlik Randolph
by appel82 on Jan 6, 2009 9:25 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Riddle of the night: Darius Miles and Martell Webster have what in common?
by Norsktroll on Jan 6, 2009 2:23 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
no points yet this season although they’ve played in games.
by Ben. on Jan 6, 2009 1:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
or more accurately although they’ve each played in a game.
by Ben. on Jan 6, 2009 1:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
We have a winner. Yes, I read Daily Dime too (from time to time)
by Norsktroll on Jan 6, 2009 1:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Travis Outlaw and Steve Blake's salaries for the 2009-2010 season become fully guaranteed if they're ...
not waived on or prior to 6/30/2009, which is before the free-agent signing period for this summer. Also, Joel Freeland and Petteri Koponen will carry cap holds of $824,200 apiece during the off-season. Therefore, with the expectation that neither Channing Frye nor Ike Diogu will be tendered qualifying offers — which would be worth $4,264,761 and $3,946,875, respectively — and Darius Miles’ $9,000,000 salary will be on the Portland Trail Blazers’ books, here’s the organization’s current projection pertaining to players’ salaries for 7/1/2009.
Darius Miles: $9,000,000
Joel Przybilla: $6,857,725
LaMarcus Aldridge: $5,844,827
Greg Oden: $5,361,240
Martell Webster: $4,319,654
Steve Blake: $4,000,000
Brandon Roy: $3,910,816
Travis Outlaw $3,600,000
Jerryd Bayless: $2,143,080
Sergio Rodriguez: $1,576,696
18th Pick In ’09 NBA Draft*: $1,198,900
Rudy Fernandez: $1,165,320
Nicolas Batum: $1,118,760
Joel Freeland: $824,200
Petteri Koponen: $824,200
Total: $ 51,745,418
*http://www.nbpa.org/cba_exhibits/exhibitB.php
In all likelihood, the Trail Blazers will be much bigger players on this season’s trade market rather than this summer’s free-agent market.
by AK1984 on Jan 6, 2009 2:40 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Right
This, I think, was one little problem with Dave’s write-up — we have to decide on Travis and Steve BEFORE we can sign a free agent. So we don’t have the option of saying, “Oh, we’re going to sign this superstar for $15 million, so we’ll let Travis and Steve go.” We won’t know whether we’re going to be able to sign that superstar. We might have informal discussions with his agent (not sure how much of that is allowed), but we sure won’t have anything set in stone. And we don’t really want to let those guys go on the chance of getting a big star.
Therefore, we only get a high-priced star if A) Darius isn’t on the books or B) we trade for him (now or in the summer, or possibly even before the trade deadline next year).
Alternatively, KP decides we don’t need a high priced star, and he uses the cap space to sign or trade for a good role player.
If you can't convince them, confuse them -- Harry Truman, U.S. President
by jscot on Jan 6, 2009 3:36 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It's overwhelmingly likely that there's no superstar
we’re going to sign for $15 million. If we get a $15 million+ superstar it will be through a trade.
Also I didn’t say anywhere that we would keep Blake and Travis and then spend $15-18 million outright if Darius was on board. The figure was $9 million.
The $18 million figure was keeping Blake and Travis without Darius on board.
If you want to cut Blake and Travis and still don’t have Darius then the figure becomes $25 million.
—Dave
by Dave on Jan 6, 2009 8:31 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It was the following paragraph
If the Blazers wanted to spend $16-18 million on one guy, which is the scenario the Miles contract would make most difficult, you have got to figure that they’re banking on that guy being a superstar. Without the Miles contract on the cap you could sign that superstar free and easy. With the Miles contract you have to make a simple decision: is that superstar worth cutting a couple of your other players like Blake and Outlaw? If you’re spending that kind of money the answer had better be yes. In that case, problem solved. The resolution will be more painful than it would have otherwise been but Miles wouldn’t have stopped the move.
With the Miles contract, you won’t make that simple decision, because you wouldn’t know you are getting a superstar worth cutting Blake and Outlaw until after you’ve had to cut them. So this scenario just wouldn’t work.
But you are right, it is overwhelmingly likely that the scenario wouldn’t play out, anyway. I don’t see a single player out there that it would make sense for us to spend that kind of money — unless Kobe opts out and KP decides to corrupt the team.
If you can't convince them, confuse them -- Harry Truman, U.S. President
by jscot on Jan 6, 2009 10:02 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It'd work
You’d just have to take that risk. It’s probably a small one the way things work nowadays. The last player I remember being fought over in public was Grant Hill. I suppose we could have somebody fib to us like Carlos Boozer. But most of the time you hear rumors that Player X is going to sign with Team Y and they actually do. The way the scenario would look is the media reporting that the Blazers have cut Blake and Outlaw in an obvious move to clear room for Player X. Right after the moratorium Player X signs. Happens all the time.
Fortunately there’s nobody out there worth doing this for. It’s going to be a smaller salary guy or a trade. Either way Miles doesn’t hurt that much.
—Dave
by Dave on Jan 6, 2009 1:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
not to mention
you can always sign back Steve or Travis using the Mid-level, Bi-annual, or veteran exceptions salaries. both are worth more than the latter two, so you could likely only get one back for an MLE salary. Assuming they would come back of course and don’t sign somewhere else.
Rule #1 of nitpicking is to get it right.
by douglast on Jan 8, 2009 1:11 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
correction
once we waive/renounce Steve/Travis, we can’t use the MLE or biannual on them, but assuming we did not get our free agent (or got him and still have room), we would be permitted to re-sign either of both of them using the cap room we still have.
Rule #1 of nitpicking is to get it right.
by douglast on Jan 8, 2009 1:18 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't
the contracts of restricted FAs count three times against our cap until we re-sign or cut them ?
by Blenzer on Jan 6, 2009 5:48 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
choose not to re-sign them
is what I wanted to write…
by Blenzer on Jan 6, 2009 5:49 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
Unless we traded them before the deadline or renounced their rights before June 30 (you can still do a sign&trade after that), their qualifying offers (to make them a restricted free agent) would count as cap holds of ca. $9.5 and $8.75 million respectively until re-signed to a lower sum.
by Norsktroll on Jan 6, 2009 6:06 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
But because
these RFAs aren’t exactly making huge contributions this year, in all likelihood they will either be quickly re-signed to a relatively low contract or renounced.
If you see the qualifying offer made and they aren’t immediately re-signed, you can take it as pretty much given that KP isn’t going to try to be active in the trade/FA market using the cap space, because he will be allowing fringe players to eat up that cap space. The likelihood of him allowing that to happen is close to nil.
If you can't convince them, confuse them -- Harry Truman, U.S. President
by jscot on Jan 6, 2009 6:33 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Portland can also
give them qualifying offers before June 30th and withdraw them later. In this case, their cap holds would indeed count against the books on July 1st, but Portland could use the moratorium period to negotiate with FA’s (or talk about trades) knowing that they can pull back the qualifying offers and get the cap space ‘back’. The deadline for withdrawing a qualifying offer without the player’s consent is July 23rd. So, essentially they have 3 weeks to try to make a deal.
Hope this makes sense.
by Storyteller on Jan 6, 2009 9:46 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
But we can't do that
with Blake and Outlaw, right? That decision has to be made once and for all.
If you can't convince them, confuse them -- Harry Truman, U.S. President
by jscot on Jan 6, 2009 10:03 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That's right
Blake and Outlaw both become guaranteed for the entire 2009-10 season if they aren’t waived by June 30th.
by Storyteller on Jan 6, 2009 10:43 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
but we could waive them and then
sign one (or both, though unlikely) back later in the summer using the midlevel, biannual, or veteran minimum exceptions.
Rule #1 of nitpicking is to get it right.
by douglast on Jan 8, 2009 1:13 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
self-correction
we could use the veteran minimum only.
however, if we waived/renounced them then were unable to sign our free agent of choice (or we did sign him and still had cap room), we can then use remaining cap room to re-sign these guys to new contracts.
Rule #1 of nitpicking is to get it right.
by douglast on Jan 8, 2009 1:17 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You didn't do anything
I didn’t do except you added Koponen in there.
—Dave
by Dave on Jan 6, 2009 8:28 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And Freeland
Both are non-issues. If they were in the way of ANY significant move their rights would be released.
—Dave
by Dave on Jan 6, 2009 8:33 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
GASP!!!
Koponen is THE solution to our PG needs after 2013. Freeland is the solution to replacing Channing and still having a backup PF whose name starts with Fr….
Both are VITAL to the European takeover of the Trailblazers.
If you can't convince them, confuse them -- Harry Truman, U.S. President
by jscot on Jan 6, 2009 10:05 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Darius Miles Revisited
Sergio + Rudy = 16
Sergio + Bayless = 16
Batum 8+8=16
by amlmart1 on Jan 6, 2009 3:50 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
He looks so cute there
Too bad it doesn’t show his black heart.
by tominhawaii on Jan 6, 2009 7:00 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Can anyone actually see us spend 9+ million
on any of the free agents?Bibby?Gordon?Gooden?Wally World?Bass?Kidd?Wallace?Iverson?Crawford?Artest?Odom?Marion?Harrington?Wilcox?
Hedo?Miller?J.O’Neal?Boozer?
by VinnyB on Jan 6, 2009 4:40 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Re-up on Raef.
We could get such a sweet deal.
Catalina-Wine-Mixer.
by ArbyOSU on Jan 6, 2009 8:22 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Dump Raef.
He’s messin’ up our “youngest team in league history” experiment.
by MiledAnimal on Jan 6, 2009 9:35 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sarcasm… It’s the wave of the future.
Catalina-Wine-Mixer.
by ArbyOSU on Jan 6, 2009 10:13 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I also thought
we could use the 18 millions to sign not only one but two or three players, meaning we wouldn’t take superstars but players who would fit better than, for instance, Diogu, Frye, Outlaw or Blake…
I know we can still trade for players we’d like to get, but I just don’t see how Miles getting on our payroll wouldn’t hurt our overall flexibility.
by Blenzer on Jan 6, 2009 5:44 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Better than Blake?
Who are we going to get as a free agent for a limited amount who fits better than Blake?
If you can't convince them, confuse them -- Harry Truman, U.S. President
by jscot on Jan 6, 2009 6:34 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
These were just examples
I’m not saying there IS a better fit at PG than Blake on the FA market, though some might argue someone like Bibby wouldn’t be bad…
by Blenzer on Jan 6, 2009 9:20 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If we get Bibby
I doubt we have money for a couple other players good enough to make this roster.
If you can't convince them, confuse them -- Harry Truman, U.S. President
by jscot on Jan 6, 2009 10:06 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If you think Blake's D is bad...
"...we have so many experts who think that you have to play defense, you have to rebound, you have to be a possession coach, you have to execute. I just laugh. Explosive offense is not as intimidating as dominant defense. But it is scary when you don't know how to stop someone." - George Karl, Nuggets coach
by jamon51 on Jan 6, 2009 11:06 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Memphis has to choose by We=dnesday whether to re-sign him
So yeah. See ya Darius.
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on Jan 6, 2009 6:46 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
And yes, it's Wednesday
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on Jan 6, 2009 6:48 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Good explanation Dave.
Rip City Baby...People have no idea what is coming.
Follow my twitter www.twitter.com/PDXBlazersFTW, @PDXBlazersFTW. Lots of random Blazer Posts from links I find around the blogosphere.
by lanepete on Jan 6, 2009 7:21 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
All this talk about Caron Butler and Gerald Wallace
I want J-Chill to come back from Greece and don the crimson and black for 6-7 million a year.
by nikolokolus on Jan 6, 2009 7:22 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Let's just trade for him.
Offer Ike and a 2012 second round pick for the chance to sit Miles down on the bench and not play him. Then renounce him at the end of the year. Man that would be awesome.
"These are dreams that we have." --Rudolfo Fernandez
by bfan on Jan 6, 2009 8:07 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
But championships are not built on fortune alone.
Boston Celtics?
Quite recently their “plan” was to tank to get Oden for a rebuild. They only managed to achieve the 2nd worst record in the league and cried when Oden wasn’t handed to them (never mind that Memphis had better odds in the lottery). 2 years later… a little fortune and a Larry O’Brien.
"I never scored more than 38, even in Little League." ~ Roy, 52 pts
by shralpster on Jan 6, 2009 8:31 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Roy and Aldridge extensions
Isn’t this write-up ignoring the fact that we’ll likely want to extend Roy and Aldridge this summer, rather than wait for them to become RFA’s in 2010? Or is that irrelevant to our cap situation for the summer of 2009?
by galway on Jan 6, 2009 9:38 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
It doesn't affect 2009-10
Their salaries are set for 2009-10, regardless of whether they sign extensions this summer or not.
by Storyteller on Jan 6, 2009 9:42 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The idea of Caron
makes me a little giddy. It’s unfortunate we haven’t gotten to see Marty this year, which influences me feeling this way. Caron just takes care of so many intangibles from that position. CONSISTENTLY. Great scorer and passer who doesn’t need to be THE man.
Washington needs to free up some room after signing Arenas and Jamison to huge deals. The three of them are a great base, but they have no room left to fill the role players they need.
Given this situation, it seems likely they may be willing to take on RLEC and maybe some young players or draft picks to gain some flexibility back.
Does this seem possible? Would you want Caron?
"Rudy’s flashy passes had the place whispering to each other like we were in junior high" ~BlazermaniacAndy
by courtsideerrandboy on Jan 6, 2009 10:16 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
They'd probably want to dump a bad contract as well
Somebody like Thomas or Songalia or Haywood.
But I would be very interested in the Blazers getting Caron Butler.
by Storyteller on Jan 6, 2009 10:46 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Haywood is a pretty good player
Great shot blocker. Definitely a starting center on many teams. Maybe we could swallow that, turn around and move him to a desperate team in need of a center?
"Rudy’s flashy passes had the place whispering to each other like we were in junior high" ~BlazermaniacAndy
by courtsideerrandboy on Jan 6, 2009 11:47 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think if you sign a FA
You can’t trade him for a half a season or something.
If you can't convince them, confuse them -- Harry Truman, U.S. President
by jscot on Jan 6, 2009 1:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
ahhhh
So maybe it could be done through a 3 team deal. I don’t know. I think of Atlanta and the growth they’ve gone through by just letting their guys grow up and meld together. That, and the Bibby acquisition has worked out real well.
So then I wonder if we should follow a similar path. Keep letting em grow and mature and maybe we already have the pieces. But then that expiring contract comes up, and questions of tightening the rotation, and I get antsy thinking of scenarios where things will be different.
At this point, for a player of the caliber of Caron, I would be willing to part with some combination of RLEC, Frye, Sergio, Outlaw, Martell, T Rex, Shev, Ike, draft pick. (I keep Batum over Martell) None should be untouchable for a player of such proven ability as Butler who will simultaneously solve many of these rotation issues.
"Rudy’s flashy passes had the place whispering to each other like we were in junior high" ~BlazermaniacAndy
by courtsideerrandboy on Jan 6, 2009 8:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I would LOVE to have Caron Butler
You’re absolutely right he plugs a lot of holes. I think he and Roy would play great together.
"...we have so many experts who think that you have to play defense, you have to rebound, you have to be a possession coach, you have to execute. I just laugh. Explosive offense is not as intimidating as dominant defense. But it is scary when you don't know how to stop someone." - George Karl, Nuggets coach
by jamon51 on Jan 6, 2009 11:08 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Forgive the naive question, but ...
I understand this cap stuff, more or less, but why exactly does Miles count against the Blazers if he is actually playing for a different team?
by Kaboomm on Jan 6, 2009 11:38 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
If I remember correctly
There’s a provision in the CBA that says something like if a medically retired player plays 10 games in either of the next two seasons his salary goes back on the books of the team that he retired from.
"...we have so many experts who think that you have to play defense, you have to rebound, you have to be a possession coach, you have to execute. I just laugh. Explosive offense is not as intimidating as dominant defense. But it is scary when you don't know how to stop someone." - George Karl, Nuggets coach
by jamon51 on Jan 6, 2009 11:41 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I suppose the basic premise behind that is: NBA contracts are generally guaranteed money
This was agreed under the current rules between the NBA/their franchises and the players association (effectively a union). If a player has such a guaranteed contract, someone needs to pay him that money in full. If he gets traded, he takes his contract with him. If he gets injured, too bad, you still have to pay him. There probably even is a clause in there that his family gets the money if he dies. In this case, Miles wasn’t traded. He also wasn’t just waived (in that case any team picking him up would have to pay his salary – no team would normally do that with an obviously injured player). His contract also wasn’t bought out. The Blazers medically retired him using a provision that helps both sides: The player still gets his money, the team isn’t burdened with his salary anymore. Because he does no longer render his services to the Blazers under this agreement, an insurance company picks up most of the tab. His contract with Memphis or any other team is a new contract, independent of the old one. He is owed $18 million, and someone has to pay it.
by Norsktroll on Jan 6, 2009 11:55 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It's an issue with the cap in general
that Miles was an exception to. Any time a player is bought out, his salary for the remainder of his contract remains on the books of the team that bought him out, at least for cap calculation purposes. This is to level the field for small market teams so that large market teams or teams with super-rich owners can’t simply buy out any bad contracts they have whenever they need cap space, hence the Knicks having to make all of these salary dump trades. We have a simliar situation with Steve Francis after the Zach trade since his contract expires this summer, but PA bought him out, so we have an extra $17 million hit on our cap right now from him, even though he played for the rockets last year and part of this year before getting cut. Similarly, until this past year, Michael Finley counted against the Mavs cap even while he was playing for the Spurs because his contract that Cuban bought out rather through 2008.
The only ways I know of to clear contracts off the cap are through trades and with the exception that allowed Miles to come off. Essentially, there’s some additional cap issue if a player just retires to prevent a team from “convincing” an overpaid vet to retire by giving him a cush job, so for a retired player’s contract to come off completely, he has to retire because he physically cannot play any more, which supposedly Miles couldn’t, hence us bringing in the independent doctors. Since he was deemed unable to play, we were able to cut him without keeping his salary on the books.
However, as a safety against teams potentially gaming the system and just getting guys to “medically” retire to save cap space, the league threw in the rule that we’re looking at with Miles now, i.e. 10 games and his salary comes back on our books, just like if we had cut him regularly. Basically we’re being caught by this safeguard even though we did everything above board. Admittedly, I think we would have at least attempted harder to get Miles into playing shape and not end his career if not for the obvious financial and locker room benefits that come from not having him around, but those are the breaks.
by Royster on Jan 6, 2009 1:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for the explanation
It makes sense about keeping teams from gaming the system. Still, if a guy is completely off your roster, you’d think that should be the end of the story. Maybe it’s time for the league to fine-tune that rule.
Anyway, thanks for all the info!
by Kaboomm on Jan 6, 2009 2:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Here's an excerpt from a Memphis newspaper regarding Miles
http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2009/jan/05/miles-finally-playing/
Miles checked in to the game with 1:46 left in the fourth quarter when the Griz were on cruise control against the Dallas Mavericks. He was eligible to play after serving a 10-game suspension for violating the NBA’s drug policy.
The 6-9 Miles signed a non-guaranteed contract Dec. 12 and will likely play Tuesday when the Griz host the Minnesota Timberwolves.
Memphis must decide Wednesday before playing at New Jersey whether to retain Miles for the rest of the season, according to general manager Chris Wallace.
If Miles is waived, he still could re-sign with the Griz or another NBA squad for a pair of 10-day contracts.
Wallace hasn’t ruled out any options regarding Miles.
Sounds like they can’t get enough of him. And if Memphis doesn’t want him, I’m sure there are tons of other teams that saw that line full of zeros the other night and can’t wait to sign him to a ten-day contract. In fact, Miles is on his way to the 2010 NBA ALLSTAR GAME OMGZ. So much for that cap space. you should see this huge pile of hair I’m tearing out. If I were a betting man, I would bet every penny I own on Darius’s return. The guy’s a warrior. Loves basketball.
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on Jan 6, 2009 1:01 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Who knew the NBA would take so long for their waiver procedure :)
If Miles plays again tonight, can I still claim a 2:0 lead? Also as I stated elsewhere: This deadline doesn’t mean we are safe. Another team can still pick him up afterwards for quite a while if they just wanted to for whatever reason.
by Norsktroll on Jan 6, 2009 1:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i’ve been saying do’n’t count darius out the whole time!
by Ben. on Jan 6, 2009 1:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
"I’m sure there are tons of other teams that saw that line full of zeros the other night and can’t wait to sign him to a ten-day contract."
As I pointed out yesterday, his +/- was a +1 in just 2 minutes. That means you’d win every game by 15 if he plays 30 minutes. A lot of teams could use that kind of contribution.
by Kaboomm on Jan 6, 2009 2:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, it was 1:46
which means you’d win by about 18, I think.
Let’s trade for him and play him. Forget cap space, he’s obviously the answer.
If you can't convince them, confuse them -- Harry Truman, U.S. President
by jscot on Jan 6, 2009 3:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Could this all be about David Lee?
I’ve heard Memphis is one of the only teams besides us with serious cap space this summer. Maybe this whole thing is over signing David Lee and they know their chances are much better if they can take $9 million away from our cap space.
I like to speculate…
by goonerluke on Jan 6, 2009 2:17 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
We'll have enough space
to sign Lee anyway, if KP wants him. He isn’t getting a max contract.
If you can't convince them, confuse them -- Harry Truman, U.S. President
by jscot on Jan 6, 2009 3:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Memphis and Oklahoma City
look to be Portland’s biggest ‘rivals’ in terms of amount of cap space this summer.
by Storyteller on Jan 6, 2009 4:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Question
If Daruis comes in and plays 20 seconds of garbage time at the end of a game does that count as a game or is there a certain amount of minutes that have to be logged in a game before that game counts??
GO
THE TEACHER ......come into my classroom "THE PAINT" for some tutelage.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"You could hurt somebody in the first row with a shot like that" -
Mike Rice, Portland at Denver 12/22/08
by Blazer1342 on Jan 6, 2009 3:39 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
1 second would be enough to count as a game. Just no DNP.
by Norsktroll on Jan 6, 2009 3:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Why is there a loud sucking sound coming from the comment you made?
GO
THE TEACHER ......come into my classroom "THE PAINT" for some tutelage.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"You could hurt somebody in the first row with a shot like that" -
Mike Rice, Portland at Denver 12/22/08
by Blazer1342 on Jan 7, 2009 1:37 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
FanShots
Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.
Recommended FanShots
Certain photos copyright © 2009 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
