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How LaMarcus Aldridge is like Derek Jeter (and not in a good way)

Derek Jeter is widely viewed as one of the best players in baseball.  He's paid like it (one of the 4 Yankees who make up the 4 highest paid players in the game) and is always voted into the All-Star game.

There's only one problem--- he's not even in the top 5 at his position.  Jeter is an excellent offensive player, but his defense is quite poor, as the advanced defensive metrics have repeatedly shown.  Why is this not widely recognized?  Because to the eye, Jeter's defense looks fantastic-- you watch his jump throws from deep in the hole and your jaw drops.  You are so impressed that you don't realize that (a) Jeter didn't actually range that far to get the ball and (b) there is no need to jump there... you just plant and fire.  That way your momentum isn't going away from the base. 

Derek Jeter *looks* like a good defensive player, but the numbers show that he just isn't.  He costs his team about 4 runs a season relative to an average defensive shortstop.  All told, at least one well known Sabermetric blog has him as baseball's 9th best shortstop.

Beyond the Box Score

---

How does this relate to LaMarcus Aldridge?  Well, LaMarcus has the look of a dominant basketball player.  You see him knock a pass away at one end and jam it on the other and you are wowed (I am too).  You see him hit 3 straight smooth looking jump shots and you are understandably impressed-- he looks so natural doing it.

The problem is that this distracts us from what matters-- effectiveness (as opposed to style).  Take tonight's game.  LaMarcus was having one of his better shooting games... and he still scored 22 points on 19 shots, for a decent but not overwhelming True Shooting % of 56.6... which would be good enough for 21st among PFs if he did it for a full season...and this was one of his *good* shooting games.  Now think about his 5 for 18 games.  For the season, LMA's TS% is 50th among PFs... between Joe Smith and Jason Thompson.  In the game thread, the point was raised that we needed to go to LMA because nobody else had it going.  I acknowledged that this was a valid point, but I think this makes it clear that LMA really can't be a #1 option... and probobly isn't the best #2 either. 

Now, let's talk about defense.  LaMarcus Aldridge sometimes looks amazing on defense.  He'll block 2 shots on 1 possession.  He'll switch onto Steve Nash out front and force a tough shot.  He'll deflect a pass.  Watch him try to stop a decent interior scorer 1 on 1 though.  You won't like what you see.  Tonight his opposite at the PF position scored 19 points on 9 field goal attempts... for a True Shooting % of 81.6... which is off the charts.  Its just one game, but this happens far too often with LMA.

---

In summary, players like Allen Iverson who can make your jaw drop sometimes make you miss the fact that they aren't really helping your team that much.  LaMarcus Aldridge is one of these players, ranking as the 7th most overrated player in the NBA last year, according to one well known source.  UPDATE: Other players on this list (and I'm using the Wages of Wins Journal to help me out here) include Rudy Gay, Kevin Durant, Michael Redd, Richard Jefferson and to a lesser extent Tracy McGrady and Carmelo Anthony.  Pay close attention, and I think you'll see what I mean.

Finally, let me conclude by saying that I hope I'm wrong about LMA.  I hope he can develop into an above average defender and an efficient shooter.  There's still time for him to do so, as he's just 23 years old.  I think he's a good guy and he's very fun to watch (I love it when he swoops in for a rebound jam or runs the break to finish with authority).  I would like nothing more than for him to succeed and make me eat my words.  I'm just not that optomistic that it will happen.  Thanks for reading and giving me a chance to explain where I'm coming from when I criticize LMA.  I hope I haven't offended anyone.  No hard feelings.

---

UPDATE #2:  JK47's comment below perfectly sums up the opposite point of view to mine:

Lamarcus gets it and he is absolutely the 4 this team needs. He’ll get better at D with age. You can’t teach that stroke he has and that little hook across the lane is becoming very effective. His post play has improved dramatically and this is only his 3rd year. Juggle stats until you’re blue in the face. He’s already very good and he has the tools to be great.

This is what I'm talking about-- LMA indeed has a great looking jumper and hook... but that's style and he hasn't figured out how to be effective with those tools yet.  Its this type of analysis (used by many respected basketball minds so JK47 is in great company) that I'm trying to provide an alternative to.

With this post, I feel I've finally laid out exactly where I'm coming from with LMA.  Much to the relief of BlazersEdge (in particular LaMarvelous and Raoulduke), this will be my last post on the subject.  In the future, if I think people are overrating LMA, I will simply link to this post so that people can see my point and either agree with it or not.  I will no longer beat the dead horse.

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Comments

Display:

Don't tell me LMA is dating Jessica Biel.

"Another spam message pops up. It gets trapped. Nowhere to go. To the recycle bin. RIP CITY BABY." --Ben describing Schonz checking his email.

by prezofdeath on Jan 4, 2009 9:55 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Reese Witherspoon just fell off my top 20.

i now hate her.

G.O. Crazy G.O. Crazy, I wanna party in your tummy!!!

by broyposse on Jan 4, 2009 10:11 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

top 20?

with that forehead? you need to check out more foreign women. The world is full of beautiful people, and she is pretty, pretty average.

"It's not who jumps the highest -- it's who wants it the most" Buck Williams

by Fund A Mental on Jan 5, 2009 4:47 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

An observation

One possible reason for his inconsistency is his slow footwork, side to side and staying in front of the opponent. that could be fixed though with training.

by DevotedBlazer on Jan 4, 2009 9:59 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

H8r.

Nah just kidding. I totally agree, obviously. Not a bad player but not as high an upside as folks think. I think I said his rookie year that I figured his upside to be Rasheed without the crazy. At this point, I think it’s more like Antawn Jamison. Who’s not a bad player, but not great either.

by howlingfantods on Jan 4, 2009 10:01 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Rasheed could have been the best player of his era

i’ll be happy if LA achieves Rasheed’s actual game and not his potential

"It's not who jumps the highest -- it's who wants it the most" Buck Williams

by Fund A Mental on Jan 5, 2009 4:49 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

or a young Wizard of Oz

I have a soft spot for all-glove no-bat shortstops.

Boomshakalaka

by jksnake99 on Jan 4, 2009 10:06 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

At first I was going to use Adam Everett as the comparison, but Omar Vizquel's decent OBP is ...

kind of similar to Joel Przybilla’s high TS% in an odd way. Yeah, that does make sense in this context.

by AK1984 on Jan 4, 2009 10:11 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

If he was Ozzie

(the world’s greatest shortstop ever in all of history forever amen) then we wouldl be celebrating some championships.

by oregonslee on Jan 5, 2009 9:17 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

this is a terrible point

look at Jeter in the beginning and prime of his career and he was absolutely regarded as both a great offensive and DEFENSIVE short stop. he was a regular on web gems in his prime. sure now he’s older and slower and not as quick with the glove but he is old and has won MULTIPLE CHAMPIONSHIPS. so if LA turns out to be like Jeter for the blazers then I’ll be more than happy with that.

by OOODDDEEENNN on Jan 4, 2009 10:09 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

i think you supported his post by pointing at "web gems."

G.O. Crazy G.O. Crazy, I wanna party in your tummy!!!

by broyposse on Jan 4, 2009 10:12 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

even when the Yanks were winning titles...

the numbers showed that Jeter was vastly overrated on defense. That’s the point— he plays with such style that people missed the fact that he didn’t have much range. He was still contributing a ton to the Yankees titles with his bat, but he was vastly overrated in the field.

I’m not comparing Aldridge to Jeter in terms of their value to their teams (Jeter is still top 10 at his position, LMA is not)… just saying that it both cases style (Jeter’s D and LMA’s entire game) makes people overrate the substance

Boomshakalaka

by jksnake99 on Jan 4, 2009 10:14 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I've always disliked range as a baseball statistic

It’s highly dependent upon the type of pitching a team has, to get a good evaluation of a player’s defense you need to really scout the player. I’ve heard that Jeter has a slow first step at times but also have read that his range is better than the stats say, so it’s a mixed bag….

by trailblazersfan on Jan 4, 2009 10:21 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Good Post Jksnake.

LMA is not a good fit for this system. He’s a gazelle with two legs tied together. It’s pretty clear we don’t have a consistent half court offense with out Broy so let’s try to push it versus waiting for these great defensive team get into their sets.

I still think he will be an all-star…once we find a PG that can run both a half court and full court offense.

I don’t know…I’m too frustrated to know what I’m talking about.

G.O. Crazy G.O. Crazy, I wanna party in your tummy!!!

by broyposse on Jan 4, 2009 10:10 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

unfortunatly, im not as confident, hopeful, but not confident

and addmittedly, after reading this post, its giving me lyriks to the fealing ive been developing for aldridge, and im even less hopeful for his development. im happy with his game tonight offensivly, but im easy to please i guess. my contention, is that he has not proven himself to be big three material, and will have to improve his efective ness and decrease his opponents effectivenes, and so so consistantly to properly fill the billing hes been recieving. i also think that his potential is an amazingly beutiful fit with oden ald roy, but his reality is not as beutiful, leaving him vunerable to trades. he, as is, is not a star, and instead a role player. again, im hopeful, and i think a nother good showing against detroitm will help his case, but abviously he has a long ways to go, and it seams to be up hill

December 18, 2008.

"Roy is Roy, and if I were to bet my life on a game of 5-on-5, I’d bet on whichever team Roy was playing on." by HurraKane212

by maid tu rek on Jan 4, 2009 10:22 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

subtract "...and so so..." and insert "...and do so..."

December 18, 2008.

"Roy is Roy, and if I were to bet my life on a game of 5-on-5, I’d bet on whichever team Roy was playing on." by HurraKane212

by maid tu rek on Jan 4, 2009 10:24 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

we kan no longer assume that our only weakness

is at the one or three, we need to pay attention to the four as well now it seams. go lamarkus, fulfil your potential, make me eat my words, ya big softy

December 18, 2008.

"Roy is Roy, and if I were to bet my life on a game of 5-on-5, I’d bet on whichever team Roy was playing on." by HurraKane212

by maid tu rek on Jan 4, 2009 10:29 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Can you really not spell ‘can’? I think you’re being deliberately obtuse.

"Well, Travis just showed us that we can go to Travis Outlaw." - Nate McMillan

by 12sharks on Jan 5, 2009 1:25 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Interesting comparison...but

Lamarcus gets it and he is absolutely the 4 this team needs. He’ll get better at D with age. You can’t teach that stroke he has and that little hook across the lane is becoming very effective. His post play has improved dramatically and this is only his 3rd year. Juggle stats until you’re blue in the face. He’s already very good and he has the tools to be great.

by JK47 on Jan 4, 2009 11:04 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I used your comment in my post

let me know if this bothers you, and if so I will delete it.

Boomshakalaka

by jksnake99 on Jan 4, 2009 11:16 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

No problem!

Now I can Rec the post. ;)

by JK47 on Jan 4, 2009 11:20 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Aldridge needs a better point guard.

As currently constructed, he benefits from people setting him up. He doesn’t have much of a post game right now, the shots he gets are generally fade aways like sheed. I think he definitely needs to figure out how to get more easy shots on the block. Specifically by developing some moves that go towards the hoop instead of away from it. Thats how you draw fouls as well as get yourself chip shots at the rim.

The other thing that really hampers him is our complete and utter lack of a fastbreak game. LMA was meant to run, he needs to get the ball when he beats his man down court(and he does often). LMA just isn’t able to get the ball in a breakaway situation as often as he should.

But ya, I see your point overall jksnake. I can make excuses all I want, but its hard to ignore what you are saying. Good post….

RUDY > MJ

by myemic23 on Jan 4, 2009 11:26 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Totally with you on the point about the fastbreak

LMA is a very good finisher on the break, but the Blazers inability to effectively run limits their opportunities to take advantage of that.

Boomshakalaka

by jksnake99 on Jan 4, 2009 11:57 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Interesting comparison

I just think Blazers fans are going through Luol Deng Syndrome at this point. Breakout season by lottery pick with tons of potential (plus Deng had a very good playoff run as well), coupled with some additional depth to an already deep roster means very high expectations for the young stud. The problem isn’t necessarily Aldridge, but that people’s expectations were unrealistic. As a Bulls fan I’ve always followed him with interest since most people in Chicago still pine for him instead of Tyrus (and at this point there’s really nothing I can say to defend the trade, but that’s another debate).

Aldridge’s ceiling offensively seems almost maxed out. He could add some post moves here and there, but the notion of him as a true back to the basket player are going to be wholly dismissed. He’s a big man with a nice shooting stroke who can occasionally post up and hit a turnaround J or a baby hook. Other than trying to draw more fouls, I don’t really see how Aldridge is going to become a post player when Oden is going to be living there. Plus, Portland plays at such a slow pace you can’t really use his length or athleticism to create many mismatches.

Where he has to make the leap as a player is rebounding. Everyone here knows he’s a poor rebounder for his size. It’s just something a young guy has to want to improve on, and get better at. With Oden and Pryzbilla its a weakness Portland can hide, but for him to progress as a player (and for him to demand a fat contract next summer) he has to be able to grab over 8 rebounds a game, especially when he’s starting and playing close to 35 minutes a game.

Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs

by Ozzie Montana on Jan 4, 2009 11:31 PM PST reply actions   2 recs

I agree

Rebounding has been his biggest deficiency thus far. I had plenty of praise for him above, but this might be one area he struggles to improve in. Some players are just born to rebound. They know where to be, they know who to box out, and they know when to jump. Size doesn’t matter. Look at guys like Jason Kidd. I suspect his rebounding will improve a little, but it’s hard to see him ever pulling down 10+ a game.

by JK47 on Jan 4, 2009 11:45 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

He pulled down 11 today for a double double.

by pklym on Jan 4, 2009 11:47 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

He did good today

That was only his 6th or 7th double double of the season and we’re 34 games in.

by JK47 on Jan 5, 2009 12:11 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

How many double doubles would be acceptable for a third year player who is supposed to become a borderline All-Star one day?

20 and 10s are even rarer. That category is lead by KG and (gasp) the soft Dirk Nowitzki when looking at games since 2005. Both recording a number in the low 100. Was an insert during the Wizards-Cavs game today.

by Norsktroll on Jan 5, 2009 12:33 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe double doubles was the wrong stat to pull

My point was that he rarely gets 10+ rebounds…With his minutes and size, you would expect that to happen more often.

by JK47 on Jan 5, 2009 1:11 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It's not the need for double doubles

He’d get them at this current rate if he played more than 35 minutes. It’s the fundamentals of rebounding he needs to improve. Boxing out, tipping the ball to himself, the things the great rebounders know how to do. Hell, he just has to learn from the two centers on his team.

Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs

by Ozzie Montana on Jan 5, 2009 1:21 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Thank You

Boxing out is the major is the major part of rebounding since it not only gives you a shot but also gives a team mate a shot to rebound. Secondarily, nothing says “this court belongs to me” like a strong box out. It gets hugely aggravating seeing smaller guys box out on us.

by oregonslee on Jan 5, 2009 10:15 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

20 and 10 games

are relatively rare in general, but looking at double doubles, he’s tied with Al Horford right now at 36th in the league. Given that Horford is a year younger, I’d say it’s reasonable to expect LA to be ahead of Al there. I mean, Oden, despite his well publicized struggles and fouls, has 10 double doubles already.

Apart from the double doubles, he has almost double the number of games with 5 or fewer rebounds than he does double doubles. That’s a more telling stat than just the total number in my eyes.

by Royster on Jan 5, 2009 1:26 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Doesn’t Horford still play mostly at center for the Hawks? And play at a faster pace? But well, of course it would be nice to see if Aldridge and Oden focused even more on their rebounding work, albeit this game didn’t give much reason to complain in that regard unlike some other ones.

by Norsktroll on Jan 5, 2009 1:29 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

the whole 20/10 stat is totally irrelevant

ZBo was the master of the 20/10 but how many wins did that lead to?

While LMA’s rebounding is a concern, the presence of Przybilla and Oden on the team make it a secondary issue— of far more immediate concern are LMA’s inability to be a #1 guy with Roy out and his inability to limit the effectiveness of good post scorers like Gasol.

Boomshakalaka

by jksnake99 on Jan 5, 2009 1:32 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

those are definitely more important

like, I’m more worried that his TS% and eFG% have dropped every year so far like you said above and his per minute numbers are down in almost every category from last year. You wouldn’t think it was possible for him to draw fewer fouls this year than last, but he’s managing somehow. Drawing some fouls would do wonders for his efficiency as a scorer, but he’d have to give up a fair number of those 18 footers to make that happen.

by Royster on Jan 5, 2009 1:38 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't care about him being #1

when Roy is out.

Oden is going to be that in two years, and Rudy will be a better fill-in for Roy than he is now, and we’ll probably have Jerryd starting — he may be our #1 scorer by then, when Roy is out.

I do care about his lack of defensive effectiveness against good post scorers.

I also think that we should be able to run more, which would utilize him better. Maybe we’re still learning and that will come, but I think we all know that on a running team, with a center like Oden clearing the boards and starting the break, LMA could be devastating. I do hope we see that a LOT more by next year.

If you can't convince them, confuse them -- Harry Truman, U.S. President

by jscot on Jan 5, 2009 2:24 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Rebounding is a concern though

Look at the Celtics and how they slapped the Lakers in the face last summer. They had excellent rebounding at every position, even the PG spot. For a team that plays at a very slow pace, the Blazers aren’t very physical. Aldridge improving as a rebounder isn’t to necessarily increase his own stats, but to create extra possessions for a team that generally doesn’t use a lot of them.

Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs

by Ozzie Montana on Jan 5, 2009 10:04 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

defensive rebounding is somewhat of a concern (Portland is 10th in that category)

but the Blazers offensive rebounding is fine. Portland is #1 in that category, which helps to explain why they are #3 in offensive efficiency (and were #1 before Roy went down).

Boomshakalaka

by jksnake99 on Jan 5, 2009 1:12 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

great take

I think learning to draw more fouls would be a great way for Aldridge to improve his efficiency. Also, I fully agree on the rebounding being a way for him to command a fat contract, but with respect to the Blazers winning games, I’d rather he improve his 1v1 post defense.

Boomshakalaka

by jksnake99 on Jan 5, 2009 12:28 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

He's playing the wrong position!

In the long run, LaMarcus will be a better SF than PF. He’s your typical 7 footer that rather shoot 15’ to 18’ jumpshot versus pounding inside for putbacks!

What this team needs is a true “Power” Forward in the mold of Maurice Lucas or Buck Williams. A player concerned making sure we are tough defensively inside and gets to the boards. Once we have that guy, LaMarcus moves to the three position and continues to work on his 3-point shot.

Also, at the SF position, he will be able to do whatever he wants offensively to other SF in the league. His outside shot can’t be blocked by a SF and he can dominate inside when he decides to venture in the paint the 3 to 5 times a game.

Finally, I do agree that LaMarcus is penalized by the teams inability to push the ball down court. His ability to get out and run for a big man is wasted on this team that just refuses to fast break the ball.

Again, this probably goes back to McMillan and his style of basketball and not having the right trigger man to start the break.

I like LaMarcus but I just think he’s better suited to play the SF position.

by RIP CITY on Jan 4, 2009 11:54 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

No offense, but however this idea got started

it’s absolutely ridiculous. LA simply doesn’t have a good enough post game to punish much smaller guys. Remember the GS games last year when Stephen Jackson would shut him down in the post? Admittedly, Jax on his game is one of the best hybrid 3/4 defenders in the league, but let’s be honest, as jksnake said in the original post, maybe he’ll be able to get any shot he wants, but given how inefficient of a shooter that he’s been, that is hardly a recipe for automatic success.

As far as him D-ing up opposing SFs, it’s one thing to be able to pick up a dribbler when he switches onto him off a screen, which he does somewhat credibly, although given our horrible defensive play, I find it hard to believe that we could have four guys considered adequate to good defenders (Roy, Batum, Pryz/Oden, Aldridge(?)) playing significant minutes, and the fact that everyone shoots 55% against us is entirely due to Blake, Sergio and Rudy alone.

My point is, if he were playing SF full time, he’d be chasing smaller guys through screens, and all over the court, and when he’d get caught up, our defense would be scrambling and in disarray, and there’d be a ton of rotation and confusion out there almost constantly.

There has never been a decent SF of LA’s size, ever. The Spurs tried it in Duncan’s early years with David Robinson, Duncan and Will Perdue in the front line, with Robinson at the SF, and he was 10 times the defender and much quicker than LA. If it doesn’t work with one of the best defensive players of all time, and the best PF ever, than it’s not going to work with Lamarcus/Lee/Oden or whoever else ends up in the line up.

He’s about as pure a 4/5 as there is, just because he likes to take deep mid range jumpers doesn’t mean he needs to play the 3. If he can’t get the shots he should playing PF, then maybe he’s not as good as we would all hope.

by Royster on Jan 5, 2009 12:09 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Can he be an "decent" perimeter defender?

I don’t know any preium NBA Power Foward that couldn’t take Stephen Jackson a part down low? If you think LA can’t handle Stephen J down low, you must think he is a pretty crappy low post player? I do think that low post play is not his best strenght!

That’s why I think he should not play Power Forward which really is a “in the paint” type position. Jump shots out to 10’ to 15’ are bonus but what you really want is toughness and REBOUNDS to get defensive stops.

Think of tonight. How many times did Los Angeles toss up a brick only to get the ball back? In fact, in all these losses lately, we have been consitently getting beat on the offensive glass by our opponents! A tough nosed Power Forward gets those boards! LA just isn’t that guy!

He’s talented for sure! He’s got a great outside shot for a big man! Very athletic for his size. He can run like a deer! And, GREAT LENGTH!

And, with that length, I think it can help him guard other NBA Small Forwards. He won’t have to be too tight on the perimeter players. He can lay off and still get a hand in their face when they shoot. I think he could be more effective than you might think!

As far as chasing other SF through screens, what other Blazer does that? What I have seen is the Blazers usually switch through screens. With his length, if he switches to a Center or PF, he would be a better match up compared to our other SF on the team.

You make good and pratical points. I guess I have a different tastes in power forwards and LaMarcus game, to me, is more fitting of a small forward.

by RIP CITY on Jan 5, 2009 12:31 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

uh

might want to take a gander at the boxscore. Portland dominated the offensive glass, and the only reason LA won the overall rebound battle (by 1) was that we threw up so many bricks. We lost that game because we couldn’t shoot the ball efficiently (44.5 effective fg% to LA’s 55.2) or get to the foul line.

Boomshakalaka

by jksnake99 on Jan 5, 2009 12:35 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

or defend effectively

I forgot to add that part

Boomshakalaka

by jksnake99 on Jan 5, 2009 12:36 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Ha Ha

We couldn’t score and we couldn’t defend. That sums it up.

by oregonslee on Jan 5, 2009 10:18 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not saying

one way or the other which is the “right” way to play PF. There are definitely the more banger, down low types around like Lee, Millsap, or Duncan, but there are also the rangier, slightly more high post, mid range guys like LA, Sheed, Webber, or Dirk. Both guys have their places in the league. As jksnake said below, we actually had a real solid rebounding effort against LA, given that we shot so poorly and took 15 more shots than them (way more likely to get defensive rebounds). Whether this is due to LMA or Oden/Pryz is debatable, but it still indicates we’re doing something right. Not saying that LMA is necessarily a good rebounder now, but he’s not the perimeter marshmallow he sometimes get lumped as.

As to the other points, you must not have watched us play in GS last year. Jax ate LMA’s lunch straight up on defense. He never cracked 20 points, and shot better than 50% only once in 3 games last year. That’s horrible for a guy who should be getting any shot he wants. Meanwhile, Jackson torched him for 29 and 24 in the second two games we played against them.

Simply put, lots of guys can get 18 footers whenever they want, but that doesn’t make it a good shot. LA isn’t even the only guy on the team who can do that (Trout, also), It’s considered the least efficient shot in basketball for a reason. It’s great to have it in the arsenal, but not something you’d want as a primary weapon.

And with the screens, it’s an issue of movement off the ball. It’s one thing for our guys to switch all screens on the ball, but you simply can’t switch every screen away from the ball, and a guy Lamarcus’s size would almost definitely not be able to stick with Lebron, Granger, or even VC running through double screens on the baseline. Not too mention if a team were to go small and then he’d have to chase around someone like Manu or Rip.

Even though his game may be more fitting to a SFs, his size makes that largely an impossibility. I’m sure there are a bunch of 6’2" guys with incredible low post games out there, but they just simply aren’t physically able to play PF or Center in the NBA, same with LA, but in reverse.

by Royster on Jan 5, 2009 12:57 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Amazing

I have never seen a post that proved one man knew so little about 2 sports. Congrats dude.

by bad karma on Jan 5, 2009 6:21 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

well if you hang out hear more,

you’ll at least get to learn about basketball. as for baseball, if ya wanna learn more about that, there are quite a few communities hear with in the SBNation family. At the very top of your screen to the left of your screan name is a direct link to the SBNation home page. Click through, and right at the top of the page, just under the banner advertisements, will be a menue bar, with basketball, baseball, collage, football, hockey, soccer, and general(misalainious sports) blog links. have fun, oh, and might i suggest something reginal?

December 18, 2008.

"Roy is Roy, and if I were to bet my life on a game of 5-on-5, I’d bet on whichever team Roy was playing on." by HurraKane212

by maid tu rek on Jan 5, 2009 6:36 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't want to sound negative ...

… but I’m finding it hard to believe you are really this bad of a speller. It does almost look like it’s on purpose. If so, I’m at a loss to understand what the purpose is.

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Jan 5, 2009 9:49 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

its ok, i understand

the overuse of k to replace c, and the fruquent use of tu = to, or du = do, are really the only intentionals that ive alloud to become habbit that make it hear. the rest of what you see is alot of me just trying to spell phoneticly. on my to do list is to find an online spellchecker, as i do understand that its becoming more anoying as im insisting on posting more. and really its rude of me to expect this community to welcome me with open arms when im plastering the boards with what on the surface appears to be drunkin graphiti.

December 18, 2008.

"Roy is Roy, and if I were to bet my life on a game of 5-on-5, I’d bet on whichever team Roy was playing on." by HurraKane212

by maid tu rek on Jan 5, 2009 10:01 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Your writing style doesn't bother me, although I can see how it's a strain on some people.

I kind of feel for you, too, since I’ve gotten flack in the past for writing like a pompous jack@$$.

by AK1984 on Jan 5, 2009 10:08 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

lol

ill admit i haven’t allways been your biggest fan, but i do pay attention to you

December 18, 2008.

"Roy is Roy, and if I were to bet my life on a game of 5-on-5, I’d bet on whichever team Roy was playing on." by HurraKane212

by maid tu rek on Jan 5, 2009 10:10 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

should say, "but i allways pay attention to whay you wright"

December 18, 2008.

"Roy is Roy, and if I were to bet my life on a game of 5-on-5, I’d bet on whichever team Roy was playing on." by HurraKane212

by maid tu rek on Jan 5, 2009 10:12 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah i don't know what is worst...

being pompous or a bad speller.

i love how “maid tu rek” is giving the false impression that he is doing Mobile posting. everytime i see one of your post, i’m thinking, “sweet, SBNation upgraded and i can mobile post!!!”

as for you AK, i always welcome your objectivity and views, even if others consider it pompous…well, i do too cuz your grammar is way too good for this site.

G.O. Crazy G.O. Crazy, I wanna party in your tummy!!!

by broyposse on Jan 5, 2009 10:11 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

You come off like a jerk a lot, but I still read your stuff. I tune out a lot of other folks though. maid tu rec could get away with misspelling if he just used paragraphs. His long posts are really really hard to read.

by tominhawaii on Jan 5, 2009 11:54 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

everything you write is hard to read.

Just kidding. I love you. Can I join you in Hawaii?

"When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car"

by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Jan 5, 2009 11:57 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

why read when Tom's post were meant for visualization

G.O. Crazy G.O. Crazy, I wanna party in your tummy!!!

by broyposse on Jan 5, 2009 12:00 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Sure

I think we’re going to get a new couch for you to sleep on.

by tominhawaii on Jan 5, 2009 12:02 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

at first I hated it

but it’s sort of grown on me… and I like it now.

Please don’t get a speil chequer…

Keep going as is.

by Bust a Bucket on Jan 5, 2009 10:53 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I was just curious.

There just seemed to be a disconnect between the style – i.e. the spelling – and the content.

But then again, it could also be an indicator of my getting old. I don’t text message, but it’s my understanding that all sorts of shorthand gets used.

I’m not so much annoyed as I find myself sometimes skipping over your posts.

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Jan 5, 2009 12:49 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

ya me too ...will skip the longer ones...just can't take it sometimes...

i understand spelling shortcuts but when it makes the word longer...whatever…no prob . . .

Do you know what you are?...You are What U is..You is what U Am..A cow don't make Ham...you ain't what u Not...so see what you got..You are what U is..And that's all it 'tis.... F.Zappa

by LetsBlaze on Jan 5, 2009 3:37 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

lol lots of guys 'have the tools to be great' - its upstairs where the seperation is

LMA doesn’t come every night, but maybe he’ll learn. Until he does he’s a second tier player.

Blazer Fan

by leeroyjenkins on Jan 5, 2009 7:21 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

I disagree on a lot of points.

1) Aldridge’s rebounding isn’t that bad.

http://www.82games.com/0809/08POR9.HTM#bypos

At the power forward position, Aldridge outrebounds his counterpart per 48 minutes 9.3 to 8.1 on the season thus far. Due to rounding, that makes our rebounding differential at the position a +1.1 when Aldridge is in the game (and not playing next to Outlaw). Therefore, he contributes to the team’s league-leading rebound rate. When Aldridge is in the game, the team grabs 53.7% of all available rebounds.

If you want to use last night to argue against Aldridge, Aldridge had 11 rebounds to Gasol’s 5 rebounds (which is still worse even taking into account Aldridge played significantly more minutes).

2) Aldridge is an efficient offensive player.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/aldrila01.html

Scrolling down to the bottom to the “Advanced” section (for Advanced Stats like PER and whatnot), Aldridge’s Offensive Rating for the season so far is at 112 points produced per 100 possessions (this is purely efficiency without taking into usage rate). This is a tad under our team’s 113 points per 100 possessions (Offensive Efficiency), but it is still well above the league average (which is currently around 107 per 100 possessions).

Adding into account the fact that his usage rate is high, he theoretically helps our team’s offensive efficiency since there is an exchange rate between usage and efficiency. While this is just theoretical, the fact that he almost certainly helps the team is not. According to 82games.com, our offense is +13.9 points better when he’s on the court. While this really has a lot to do with our bad backups at the PF position, there is nothing that suggests that Aldridge hurts our offense in any way.

Why is Aldridge’s offensive rating so high (again this doesn’t even take into account Aldridge’s high usage rate)? Aldridge is efficient because of a stat that tends to get ignored in player evaluation – his extremely low turnover rate.

Among players with any kind of significant minutes, Aldridge is number 10 in the league in not turning the ball over. A turnover is worse than a missed shot because it doesn’t allow for offensive rebounds (and the Blazers get 1/3 of all missed shots on the offensive end). This is also part of why Roy is always more efficient that his TS%. Low turnover rates are a key part of offense, just second to shooting efficiency. This is also part of why the Blazers offense is normally so efficient.

3) Is Aldridge’s defense really bad?

While the team’s defense is bad and Aldridge’s defensive rebounding numbers are poor, how much of this is due to Aldridge?

http://basketballvalue.com/teamplayers.php?year=2008-2009&team=POR

All of the Blazers starters have a negative impact in oncourt-offcourt on defense, while the reverse is true for the bench. The only exceptions are Aldridge for the starters and Outlaw for the reserves.

http://www.82games.com/ilardi2.htm

Here’s another link that says that Aldridge is a good defender using adjusted +/- from his first two seasons in the league.

Any measurement of defense using +/- says that Aldridge is likely good (or at least definitely not bad) at defense. However, it’s quite obvious that +/-, like any stat for defense, is very questionable.

4) Wages of Wins has too many flaws to be valid.

I just felt like pointing this out as I’ve noted this many times before. The fact that Wages of Wins disagrees with ALL other player evaluation stats on Aldridge may say more about Wages of Wins than…ALL other player evaluation stats!

by poster on Jan 5, 2009 7:54 AM PST reply actions   3 recs

I'd like to point out that Oden had a worse time defending Gasol tonight that Aldridge.

Oden wasn’t able to both get a hand up to contest a jump shot and stay in front of Gasol. It wasn’t a pretty matchup for anyone last night.

by poster on Jan 5, 2009 7:57 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The problem with almost every point here

is that they refer to stats that are highly influenced by his teammates. For example, individual offensive rating. Lamarcus has the same rating as Greg Oden and is worse than every other starter except Batum (110) and Rudy and Joel, coincidentally all the guys who play significant minutes with Brandon, whose ORtg is astronomical. Every other measure of offensive efficiency, which is what wages of wins really likes, hates LA, so either wages of wins is completely off base on his efficiency, or his ORtg is artificially inflated by playing alongside one of the most efficient players in the game, along with all of our other players. The fact that no one would call Greg an offensive force right now or even particularly efficient and yet he is the same as LA should tell us something.

As far as any of the +/- stats, I’d say that has more to do with our mostly horrid backup PF play since he’s been here, which has been so bad to the point that we’re starting to see larger doses of the Oden/Pryz lineups. I’m sure even Frye would have a dominant +/- if I were the one backing him up, and the Trout/Frye/Ike combo is never going to shut down too many people. No one will ever accuse Rudy of being a better defender than Brandon, and yet his defensive +/- is significantly better than Roy’s.

You are right about him being a better rebounder than I’ve given him credit for above, but I’d hesitate to ever call it a strong point of his.

As far as the Gasol defending last night: Oden has like 25 games under his belt, Aldridge has been in the league for 3 years, Even taking out the fact that it usually takes at least 18 months to fully recover from MF, if his only point of comparison for the night was that he looked better than a 20 year old rookie, that’s not a great sign.

by Royster on Jan 5, 2009 9:08 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Some clarification...

Well, one could say that people who play with Brandon are the people who play significant minutes anyway. The starting lineup plus two of our three main bench players (minus Outlaw) is practically the entire rotation. Outlaw, Sergio, and Frye have been the least efficient players, and I don’t know if one could argue that it has only been because of a lack of playing next to Roy. I’d also like to add that Oden has a moderate usage rate, making Aldridge’s rating “better” overall.

It’s also hard to say how much of the offensive struggles is because of a lack of Roy (probably most of it), and how much is due to replacing his minutes partly with Bayless and a new rotation in general. The new rotation has a bench that is struggling even more with the loss of Rudy.

The +/- ratings are, admittedly, very iffy like always. However, Aldridge plays in the unit that has the worse defensive marks and still comes out ahead. Adjusted +/- also supposedly removes the influence of strength of teammates/opposition. Whether it works has to do with the rating system.

Finally, Wages of Wins has some serious flaws. It doesn’t measure offensive efficiency; it puts an incredibly heavy weight on rebounding, which is mostly defensive rebounding since all rebounds carry the same weight with this stat. It doesn’t take into account the usage vs efficiency tradeoff as the weights do not favor shot creation.

by poster on Jan 5, 2009 10:52 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

My counter would be Batum's relatively high rating

Batum is the only player who is essentially “always” playing next to Brandon since he rarely sees time on the second unit and yet he starts both halves when Brandon is playing, and yet Batum’s offensive rating is almost identical to LA’s (110 vs. 112). Factor in that Steve Blake and Joel (our only guys with enough history to make a comparison valid) are significantly above their career averages, that would indicate the presence of a “Brandon Roy boost”, so to speak. The fact remains that there’s a clear gap in efficiency between the guys who get to play as a 2nd or 3rd option alongside Roy, and the guys who are the primary scorers/creators in the second unit. The fact that Lamarcus is at the bottom of the guys playing alongside Roy would seem to indicate that he’s not a super efficient offensive player.

I’m being lazy here, but to really extend it, you could look at other guys playing alongside elite scorers. Just use Gasol as an example. He never had an offensive rating above 119 in his years with Memphis, and ever since he’s been in LA, he’s been at at least 126. Did he suddenly become a better player, or was it just that much easier playing alongside K*be?

by Royster on Jan 5, 2009 11:53 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The difference between Wages of Wins and PER

is much more due to emphasis on shooting efficiency than rebounding. There are certainly some flaws, but the rebounding issue sometimes gets blown out of proportion.

http://dberri.wordpress.com/2006/11/09/do-we-overvalue-rebounds/

Boomshakalaka

by jksnake99 on Jan 5, 2009 12:31 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Aldridge's plus/minus

is excellent largely because of who replaces him at PF.

Your point about turnover rate is well taken, but Aldridge still doesn’t shoot the ball efficiently enough to be a #1 guy… I guess he’s ok as a #2.

Regarding point #4, that’s not exactly true. While Wages of Wins has LMA as a below average PF, PER doesn’t exactly love him either (he’s the 13th rated PF). Other that those two, which other player evaluation stats are you referring to?

Thanks for the thoughtful response.

Boomshakalaka

by jksnake99 on Jan 5, 2009 9:59 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

13th rated PF and 43 rated player...

that’s pretty good for your 3rd year second option, isn’t it?

Convince me if I’m wrong here, snake… but that seems pretty good.

"When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car"

by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Jan 5, 2009 10:58 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

i'de be interested in a link to where ever these stats are coming from

as i’de like to see who the other 12 PF’s are and compair their carears this far. i’de also like to compare usage rates among PF’s in that group. and then again, i’de like a look at who the other 42 players are, and see how lma stacks up. my personal concern duznt come from a star sheet as much as it comes from watching lma play. he duz a few things really well, like creat extra posetions with steals, (im watching the game at phoenix right now, and lma litteraly just took the ball from nash, nuthing fancy, face to face, lma just took it, just like he did from calderone) face to face and off the pass, and ball tips to team mates who get credit for the rebound when it was clearly lma that made the play. but its the horrible shooting, his refusal to move toward the basket, and his astonishing preference for simply moving out of the way when a smaller gaurd attacks the basket. i honestly kant remember him ever taking a charge. but again, the worst is how many shots he misses.

December 18, 2008.

"Roy is Roy, and if I were to bet my life on a game of 5-on-5, I’d bet on whichever team Roy was playing on." by HurraKane212

by maid tu rek on Jan 5, 2009 12:06 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It's PER dude.

ESPN.

"When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car"

by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Jan 5, 2009 12:26 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

PUR?

Is that tabulated by Andy Catz?

by Bust a Bucket on Jan 5, 2009 2:50 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

nice.

I think I’m obligated to rec you… my cats demand it.

"When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car"

by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Jan 5, 2009 3:53 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

thanks

ive never looked at those before

December 18, 2008.

"Roy is Roy, and if I were to bet my life on a game of 5-on-5, I’d bet on whichever team Roy was playing on." by HurraKane212

by maid tu rek on Jan 5, 2009 7:25 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Sure, but it's a dangerous trap

to fall into. By their third year, elite PFs start to make the leap.

Bosh, Brand, KG were all All stars in their third years. Duncan was All-NBA his first year in the league, Boozer signed a $60 million contract after his second year. Z-Bo’s first 20/10 year was in his third year. It’s not like being 13th among PFs in his third year is some incredible feat. Decent, but not amazing.

Now, I’m not saying he’s reached his potential yet, given that Sheed, Webber and Dirk weren’t all stars till their fourth years, and there will always be late bloomers out there like West, but I’d say it’s reasonable to expect LA to keep progressing from last year, and instead he’s largely stagnated. I still have hopes for LA, but one of these days we could wake up, and him and Roy will be 27 or 28 and we’ll still be making the excuse that they’re still young and developing.

by Royster on Jan 5, 2009 12:26 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You can't look at things such as All Star appearances or contract signings...

to validate that LMA isn’t at that level or making that leap.

Sheed, the guy LMA is probably most often compared to, averaged 16.4 ppg and 7 rpg the first year he went to the All Star game, which was actually his 5th year in the league. LMA is doing better than that right now. Lots of players get signed to contracts that they don’t deserve/don’t earn/don’t live up to.

I’m not saying ranking 13 in PER is WOW amazing. But it’s pretty good for your #2 option.

"When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car"

by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Jan 5, 2009 1:13 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

The flaw with that comparison, though, is that LaMarcus Aldridge's third season at ...

age 23 is most similar to Juwan Howard’s career arc at that juncture. It’s scary stuff, man.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=aldrila01&y1=2009&p2=howarju01&y2=1997

As it stands, Aldridge appears to be an adequate third option on a potential playoff team.

by AK1984 on Jan 5, 2009 7:30 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

which is what he needs to be.

Oden and Roy are clearly the two pillars that the franchise will be built on.

by Cablinasian on Jan 5, 2009 8:35 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Please no

According to the macrophenomenal FreeDarko book, Juwan Howard was the fourth biggest NBA cancer of all time, ahead of even Stephon Marbury. That guy made teams win a lot more when he was gone again.

by Norsktroll on Jan 5, 2009 11:55 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

My point about the all star games/ contracts

is that it was a tangible measure of whether the player was considered an “elite” player yet. Certainly Roy’s numbers last year weren’t spectacular, but his choice as an All star showed that he was considered a top SG. Which would give us a little bit of an ability to separate a guy like Sheed who made it without great numbers from a guy like Shareef Abdur-Rahim who had great numbers but was never really considered a “top” guy at his position.

Basically, all of the guys I named above were well on their way to being considered elite (top 4 or 5 at the position) by their third year. That makes it a little hard for me to brag about LA being 13th, regardless of whether he’s the 2nd option or whatever. Note that most of the guys ahead of him like Millsap, Jamison, Gasol, Camby and even Garnett wouldn’t be considered “1st offensive options” either, so I’m not sure that’s a great excuse.

I know there are exceptions to the rule, like Sheed who had maturity issues to work through, and so LA could still make that leap, but I’m feeling less confident these days that he’s going to get on that Bosh, KG, or maybe even Brand tier of players any time soon.

by Royster on Jan 6, 2009 1:00 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

that is pretty good

but I am convinced that the break even point for shooting % is too low in PER— I believe that is one of PER’s weaknesses… shooting efficiency isn’t taken into account. Win Scores has LMA as Portland’s 7th or 8th best player. There are certainly flaws in both, but I don’t think PER penalizes LMA’s low shooting efficiency enough.

Boomshakalaka

by jksnake99 on Jan 5, 2009 12:34 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm refering to quite a few player evaluation stats...

+/- stats are considered player evaluation stats, which all love Aldridge. This includes adjusted +/-, which is supposed to remove the effect of the strength of backups and opponents.

PER is a player evaluation metric. Win Shares from basketball-reference.com is a metric. Kevin Pelton has a metric called WARP. There are various other rating systems out there. The only one that doesn’t say that Aldridge is an above average PF is Wages of Wins.

As for being 13th as a PF, I wouldn’t say there’s anything wrong with that considering it’s the strongest position in the league. Marresse Speights also hasn’t played enough to be considered better than Aldridge (14.7 minutes per game).

by poster on Jan 5, 2009 11:02 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

can you link me to adjusted plus/minus and WARP?

I’d be very much interested in taking a look.

Boomshakalaka

by jksnake99 on Jan 5, 2009 12:52 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I think LMA sufferes by comparison to Brandon

They both came out in the same draft, so their careers will always be linked to some extent, but the simple fact is that Brandon is way ahead of the curve and LMA is probably right where he belongs as a 3rd year player (and not even that because missed a good chunk of time his rookie season).

If you compare Aldridge to Sheed he’s actually ahead of Mr. T based on offensive production, and from what I’ve seen LMA’s defense has done nothing but improve by leaps and bounds this season; he’s legitimately our best perimeter defender.

by nikolokolus on Jan 5, 2009 8:15 AM PST reply actions   1 recs

Let me just say

(Oh how I hate the Yankees and the American League) that Derek Jeter is redeemed by his charisma, his leadership, and all the intangible and immeasurable qualities that characterize the heart of a champion. He is a Yankee captain in the finest tradition. For that reason alone I hesitate to use Jeter as the measuring rod. My agreement that LMA may be over rated doesn’t cause me to like him less. As long as he sets a a high standard for professionalism his value will exceed his statistical contribution.

by oregonslee on Jan 5, 2009 9:27 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Snake is such a grump............ Sheesh........

LMA is not as good as David West or Pau Gasol or Chris Bosh.

I would rather have him than Carlos Boozer.

He might become as good as Chris Bosh if he starts getting low with a little greater frequency.

His defense is middle-of-the-pack, as nearly as I can tell. Exceptional defenders are…….. the exception anyways…

He’s a team guy and doesn’t annoy the neighbors riding ATVs in the middle of the night.

Whassyerproblem with him?

"Now with a non-provocative footer!"

by timbo on Jan 5, 2009 9:40 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

sure

He’s a top 10 SS. Paying him as the best SS in the game, though, is absurd.

Boomshakalaka

by jksnake99 on Jan 5, 2009 9:53 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

is it absurd if you had Yankee money???

Paul Allen does and i don’t mind if he goes on spending spree version 2.0 the next two summers IF KP is using his credit cards

G.O. Crazy G.O. Crazy, I wanna party in your tummy!!!

by broyposse on Jan 5, 2009 10:12 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, because you can get a much better shortstop for less,

Jeff's guide to not looking stupid:
+/- is an absolutely terrible stat, so don't use it, and don't give up on young players before they turn 24.
54!

by joof on Jan 5, 2009 4:55 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

look

There are three ways to be an efficient shooter: have a high fg%, make a living at the foul line, or hit threes. LaMarcus doesn’t do any of these.

There is no way his D is middle of the pack.

That’s a problem from your #2 guy.

Boomshakalaka

by jksnake99 on Jan 5, 2009 9:52 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The inference I make

from your points is LMA will never be a go-to guy, a true #2. I agree with my own inference fully. As the old lady in “Are You Being Served” liked to say “I am unanimous in that.” We will undoubdtedly use RLEC and a piece or two to trade for a high impact scorer.

by oregonslee on Jan 5, 2009 10:02 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

LMA = Vlad Guerrero or Alfonso Soriano?

Scores 17pg = 300 avg
Low eff scoring = low OBP/strikes out/bad eye
Smooth offensive game and great athleticism = good/accurate arm and awesome hand-eye cordination
avg on ball defender/rebounder = limited range and not a good base runner

Nice comparison and post, jksnake99.

Derek Jeter is CLUTCH and plays his but off (like Dustin Pedroia) and I would love either on my team (I dislike both like Timbo).

Derek Jeter = Reggie Miller/Robert Horry/Tony Parker(hot girlfriend)

Well, I could be wrong, but I believe diversity is an old, old wooden ship that was used during the Civil War era.

by RoyDrexler on Jan 5, 2009 10:12 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Pedroia is one of the 10 best position players in the American league, as much as I absolutely loathe him

Derek Jeter is a middle of the pack player who is being payed way above the amount of wins he provides, and should have been moved off short stop years ago. He selfishly hurt the Yankees by refusing to move off shortstop when ARod joined the team because ARod was one of the best defensive shortstops at the time, while Jeter ranked poorly.

Jeff's guide to not looking stupid:
+/- is an absolutely terrible stat, so don't use it, and don't give up on young players before they turn 24.
54!

by joof on Jan 5, 2009 5:01 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Jeter is paid

for being the Yankee Captain; you know, guys like , Ruth, Gerhrig, Dimaggio, Berra, Ford and yes Jeter too. It’s part of the Yankee mystique, their unique character and one of the reasons I can’t stand them. Nonetheless, they are the gold standard for any sports club that values tradition (maybe Real Madrid, the Canadiennes or Man U have this) and Jeter is their leader.

by oregonslee on Jan 5, 2009 5:14 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Your original premise that LMA

looks better on paper than in live action is good with me. And your use of facts to support your argument was excellent. Your choice of Jeter as a comparator though does not hold water. He is no longer paid exclusively for his production but because he is the guardian of the Yankee DNA. “There can be only one.” IMO Ichiro is a more apt comparison.

by oregonslee on Jan 5, 2009 5:40 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Ichiro was worth 3.8 wins above talent that is freely replacable last year, making him the 41st most valuable position player in baseball

Derek Jeter was worth 2.9 wins above that replacement player, with an average player being worth 2.5 wins.

Meanwhile, Jeter is seen as an elite player, while Ichiro’s contract was derided, while being under market value for his production.. I don’t really see how the comparison holds.

Jeff's guide to not looking stupid:
+/- is an absolutely terrible stat, so don't use it, and don't give up on young players before they turn 24.
54!

by joof on Jan 6, 2009 4:44 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

And having that captain play shortstop makes thier team worse,

He has no business at third base. Right now, he is being paid to play a position where he makes the team win less games then it otherwise would, regardless of his status as captain.

Jeff's guide to not looking stupid:
+/- is an absolutely terrible stat, so don't use it, and don't give up on young players before they turn 24.
54!

by joof on Jan 6, 2009 4:28 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

We can talk

just as soon as Ichiro leads the Mariners anywhere. Of course their recent drop off a cliff into the Pacific isn’t exactly his fault but a million singles and walks on a losing team isn’t worth squat. And his leadership skills; has he finally learned his second word in English. No comparison to Jeter’s winnning ways.

by oregonslee on Jan 6, 2009 4:50 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

My opinion on this matter

is that once GO comes into his own, we wont really need the things we’re trying to get out of LMA right now. Post presence? rebounding? shot blocking? Those will be GO’s forte, allowing him to either take advantage of one-on-one coverage, or pass out of the double to an open LMA.

Obviously this hasn’t happened yet due to Przy’s lack of offensive presence and GO’s lack of comfort or experience around the rim. But give it time. By comparison, Pau Gasol provides a limited post presence and has oft been considered “soft”. With a strong center, he is able to be successful, despite his inadequacies as a post player.

"Respect everyone, fear no one." -TP

by Arby on Jan 5, 2009 10:43 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

well snake, you lay out a reasonable argument...

that has generated a nice, healthy, civil discussion, so kudos for that.

I think you bring up some good points.

He needs to find a way to get to the line more often, especially as he’s a good free throw shooter. Conventional thinking says that he needs to attack the rim more to get fouled more. I don’t really care how he draws fouls, just as long as he does. Since he loves the mid range game, maybe he needs to develop that pump fake to draw defenders in the air and then jump into them. Whatever it takes… just get to the line.

I also think he needs to be more aggressive on the defensive glass. He’s actually a great offensive rebounder, 15th in the league, which tells me he knows how to go get it. I wonder why he isn’t as effective on the D glass?

Defensively, I think he’s good (not great, not average). He’s been victimized a little so far this year, but look at the stiff competition that we’ve played. Those teams that we’ve been playing are top notch teams for a reason… most of them have years of experience, have their patterns set, and know how to get shots off (LMA has had to guard either Amare, Dirk, Gasol, KG, West, or Duncan at least 12 times already this year… those guys are all established and know exactly what they’re doing… that’s a list full of big names, and I’m probably missing a couple). He’ll shine a little more once we get a steady dose of cupcakes.

Here’s my main problem with saying he’s hit his ceiling or saying that he’s overrated (side note… this is a Blazers forum… isn’t every player on this team overrated by this fanbase?): LMA is still only in his 3rd year. He didn’t start his rookie year and didn’t play anywhere near major minutes to be a regular force, so really he’s had one year to figure it out. Part of the problem with the stats on him is that he’s not got a large history to pull from yet. I don’t know how much he can alter his game, but I’d be surprised if he can’t grow. The other thing that stats really don’t take into account is the eye ball test, which by itself isn’t a perfect measurement, but then neither are stats. LMA has the tools. He’s quick, long, smart, has good range offensively and defensively, and generally stays in the flow of things.

The main thing that we as fans need to accept (cuz there’s no getting around it) is that LMA is young. He’s on a team full of guys his age or younger who are all still developing and processing and growing.

In sum, LaMarcus will be just fine. Let’s get everybody healthy and plan on wrecking people for years to come.

"When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car"

by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Jan 5, 2009 10:44 AM PST reply actions   2 recs

I like LMA a lot.

I just can’t love him though. It’s very hard to love a jump shooting PF.

My favorite teams are the Blazers and any team that is playing the Lakers.

by OCBlazerFan1 on Jan 5, 2009 10:52 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

all of whom are much better shooters than LMA

LMA’s shot looks good, but his effective field goal percentage on jump shots is just .418, significantly lower than the players you listed. If you are going to be a jump shooting PF, you have to shoot it better than that, and it also doesn’t hurt to get to the foul line a little bit, or learn to hit the 3.

Boomshakalaka

by jksnake99 on Jan 5, 2009 12:41 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

These guys are also good rebounders.

LMA is some nights, but usually not. These guys get to the line, and have very good inside games to compliment their outside games. And again, I like LMA.

My favorite teams are the Blazers and any team that is playing the Lakers.

by OCBlazerFan1 on Jan 5, 2009 2:49 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I would think people would love Aldridge a whole lot more

If he could defend the paint as well as Garnett or Duncan, or use his body to get easy buckets in the post like Gasol.

Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs

by Ozzie Montana on Jan 5, 2009 5:22 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Well then, the question is"which stuff, and how much?"

Is it like, 8.3 rebounds per game and yer great, but 7.6 sucks?

by raoulduke on Jan 5, 2009 5:50 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'd like to see a TS% of closer to .560 or .570

rather than LMA’s current mark of .508. That would put him more in line with the elite PFs that BEdgers like to compare him to.

Regarding rebounding, I’d like him to get a little better, but because we have Greg and Joel, I’d rather he focus on improving his defense (both individual and team defense).

Boomshakalaka

by jksnake99 on Jan 5, 2009 6:13 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

How many years have Duncan, Garnett and Gasol played

to develop those games? More than 1.5 I’ll bet.

by raoulduke on Jan 5, 2009 5:51 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Its not the number, is where you get them...

the fact that he doesn’t get 10+ rebounds is softened by the fact that he is one of the best at getting offensive rebounds. He doesn’t get many Def. rebounds because he is able to defend smaller players so MacMillan allows him to switch, and watch a game, more often than not he is out of position because of this

by SamGoody on Jan 5, 2009 10:13 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

It's true that we ding players for being selfish and stat hogs, but when we

start to evaluate them and their play we go straight to the numbers. Who can blame guys like zbo? Would zbo be getting paid one dollar more if he switched off on smaller players and defended the perimeter?

by raoulduke on Jan 6, 2009 12:32 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Aldridge sets the tone rather than doing it all himself

Aldridge is the clear team leader at +13 per 48 on "2 yr" adjusted +/-. He is 7th best in the league on this. Aldridge is very good at team defense and creating conditions for a strong offense around him and he does some good things directly on offense too. A player’s impact is more than his individual stats.

by StatRaven on Jan 8, 2009 12:32 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Wages of Wins is absoultely crap compared to 82games

Unless you believe that Joel Przybilla is more valuable to this team than Brandon Roy (and actually significantly), than please don’t use this site as clear evidence again. 82games the much better, much more accurate site, has LaMarcus Aldridge as its 28th best player (7th best PF) in the entire league. I’m not saying he’s that, but he’s much closer to that, than he is our 7th best player, as wages of wins would have you believe.

by as11osu on Jan 8, 2009 1:10 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

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