Jason Quick talks Big trade in Todays Chat
by Titlein2011 on Jan 29, 2009 3:06 PM PST
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PrintThe link on www.Oregonlive.com should be up shortly for Jason Quick's online chat he had today. In it he discussed that the Salmons trade does not pass the smell test, but that there are 2 trades that are being discussed. He was some what vague so as not to disclose something he shouldn't.
1 is with a Western conference team, and would be a minor deal. His personal feeling was that it would be unlikely to happen.
The 2nd trade he mentioned, was a trade that could bring us into title contention possibly. It concerns 1 player that has been rumored in past trade talks with the Blazers. The trade would bring over 2 players to the Blazers from an Eastern Conference team, filling 2 positions, that have been seen as a need for the Blazers. The Blazers would be giving back 2 players plus Rlec. The 2 Blazers being traded are not starters, but are players that are in the regular rotation.
In my opinion this is the Gerald Wallace and Raymond Felton trade we have been discussing in previous posts. They fill the SF and PG upgrades we have been looking for. Realizing that Felton is an improvement, but not necessarily the answer. The Blazers would be giving back Sergio, Travis Outlaw, and Raef. Both are role players, but not starters.
This is a great trade for all parties considered when you figure in the all powerful dollar. Rlec and other large ending contracts are of greater value this year than any other year, due to the 2010 Free Agency class and our current recession. The Bobcats ownership has been looking to shed $, and if you watched the recent game in Charlotte in regards to attendance, you can see partly why. Out of all the year ending contracts the Blazers have the only one that actually pays you back for the $ you would pay out for the remainder of the year.
Gerald is a lot for them to give up, but they get a poor mans version of their player back for less than half of what they are paying him now, and they get a back up point guard that fits the offensive mindset of Larry Brown however lacking he is on the defensive side. The Bobcats will not have to decide on giving Felton a long term contract or waiving him to avoid the double salary hit against their cap for the summer of 2010. They become major players in the 2010 free agency spree.
The Blazers get a dominating SF who only lacks a solid 3 pt stroke. Nate very well may have to tweak the offense slightly to curtail more to Wallace's strengths, slashing to the hole! With Felton we get a solid pg who's some what lack of a pass first mentality will mesh well with Roy. Even if Felton is not the answer, he will be a valuable trading chip next year, possibly for a top flight back up power forward. I believe Bayless will be handling pg duties by the end of next year.
I wouldn't be surprised to see a pick or picks thrown in by the Blazers, and that the trade would be consumated at the deadline, or after Wallace shows he is up to playing from his partially collapsed lung, whichever comes sooner.
What do you think?
Are these the players Quick is referring to?
If so do you like the trade, or do you think it is unrealistic and for which team?
If it happens I say hello Division champions for 2009, and Western Conference finals participants with a Championship contender status for 2010!
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No worries. Maybe just cut/paste your stuff here into a comment over there and nuke the post.
The cowards never started
The weak died along the way
Only the strong survived
They were the Trailblazers
Gerald Wallace?
The guy with the collapsed lung?
"These are dreams that we have." --Rudolfo Fernandez
Everybody would be injury prone if they got fouled like that...
but I really don’t know much about Wallace, so…
".. is gumby an alien?"
And of course Bynum doesn't get suspended
because he plays for the Lakers. Typical league favoritism..
--
by CaptainSexyJacob on Jan 29, 2009 6:50 PM PST up reply actions
It was TECHNICALLY a flagrant foul in that he didn't play the ball, but it was really nothing more than a big guy accidentally inflicting an injury in a freak situation...
The cilantro in your tapioca pudding since 2007.™
OK
The Bynum thing:
Was it dirty? No.
Was it careless? Yes.
These guys play in the NBA, not some YMCA gym down near the pub. There’s a reason why that sort of action is a flagarant: BECAUSE IT LEADS TO EXACTLY THIS SORT OF “freak” injury!
Was it elbowing him in the testes? No
Was it stupid and dangerous? Absolutely.
I know less than half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
by haildablazer on Jan 29, 2009 9:10 PM PST up reply actions
He's not injury prone...
He is concussion prone and now pretends to wear a mouth guard (chews on it) to keep from getting another concussion.
Right ...
but if this trade is supposed to make us contenders right away it won’t be Wallace.
"These are dreams that we have." --Rudolfo Fernandez
It won't be anyone people are talking about..
Wallace is the best player mentioned! He may not make us a contender, but we will better with him.
Go back and listen again...
Quick says this makes the Blazers definite championship contenders within the next couple of years, not necessarily this year. That’s why I’m not so sure it’s Wallace and Felton he;s talking about.
Quick did a great job of teasing us all but not really giving enough info to accurately nail it for certain.
by antediluvian on Jan 30, 2009 9:37 AM PST up reply actions
DUHONNNNNNNNNNNNNN
"There is one way that cutting off trade with a partner could help you," Wolfers explains. "And that's if you're an idiot. If you used to trade a lot with one partner, and they always got the better of you because you don't know what you're doing, then you're right, you would be better off not trading with them any more."
by Outlaw is Rejector on Jan 29, 2009 3:27 PM PST reply actions
uh, no
Duhon was awful on a slow it down team in Chicago, and there is no reason to think he wouldn’t be awful again on Nate’s slow paced team. Furthermore, he’s part of a team that is even worse on defense than the Blazers, and thus does nothing to address our primary need… D.
Boomshakalaka
Cmon please just let me be obsessed with Duhon FOR 1 DAY!!
"There is one way that cutting off trade with a partner could help you," Wolfers explains. "And that's if you're an idiot. If you used to trade a lot with one partner, and they always got the better of you because you don't know what you're doing, then you're right, you would be better off not trading with them any more."
by Outlaw is Rejector on Jan 29, 2009 4:53 PM PST up reply actions
KP has told Quick time and again
that he likes Deng a lot. I would suspect he’d be a part of any deal.
I heard Deng is base year
that makes his inclusion in a two-team deal (where the parties are over the cap) extremely difficult
If KP can get a 3rd team (with cap space) involved and make Hinrich/Deng happen, I’m all for it
Nope, Luol Deng can be acquired via a simple two-team, five-player trade.
I’d part ways with Raef LaFrentz, Channing Frye, and Jerryd Bayless for Deng and Kirk Hinrich.
Yup, Feesampo21 ran the numbers on the other thread
"…but we could actually do it. So when you trade a BYC player you can only take back 125% +100,000 of 50% of his current salary. So in Deng’s case it would be:
$9,385,000 * 50% = $4,692.500
$4,692.500 + Hinrich’s salary of $10 Mil = $14,692,500
($14,692,500 * 125%) + $100,000 = $18,465,625
Which is the maximum $ amount Chicago can take back.
BUT the Blazers have to be able to absorb his entire salary ($9,385,000). That with Hinrich’s gives us a total receipt of $19,385,000
Now when you add up all of our contracts:
Raef = $12,722,500
Outlaw = $4,000,000
Sergio = $874,000
You get a total of $17,596,500. So the max Portland could absorb is:
($17,596,500 * 125%) + $100,000 = $22,095,625
So to summarize:
Max Chicago Could Absorb = $18,465,625
Max Portland Could Absorb = $22,095,625
ACTUAL Amount Chicago Would Absorb = $17,596,500
ACTUAL Amount Portland Would Absorb = $19,385,000
So as you can see, the numbers would work…."
So whoever told me two weeks ago that the deal couldn’t be done was dead wrong. If the ESPN trade machine says the salaries match, I’ll go with that.
The bigger question is…why would Chicago/Paxson make the deal? It’s all about clearing cap room, IMO. The Bulls get the highly-coveted RLEC, AND they exchange the beefy LTCs of Hinrich/Deng for the much easier-to-digest salaries of Outlaw/Sergio. Travis replaces Deng in their lineup, and Sergio could back up Rose (no more “Hinrich is paid too much and is too good to be coming off the bench” controversy for Chicago’s front office and coaching staff)
If Blog-a-Bull’s opinions are an accurate indication of Chicago fans, they won’t be complaining too loudly if Pason “dumps” Hinrich and Deng, especially if they all can look ahead and see the benefits of having salary cap space this summer and in 2010
Rather than shave salary cap space for 2010, the Chicago Bulls should look to clear ...
room for this upcoming summer. Although I’m not a huge fan of Carlos Boozer, he’d be a solid fit at power forward alongside center Joakim Noah — as they’ve got complementary skill sets — with a trade of Larry Hughes to the New York Knicks for Malik Rose and Jared Jeffries accomplishing that objective; that’s because Rose has an expiring contract. The Knicks would benefit from that deal, too, since the organization would cut $6,883,800 from its books come the summer of 2010, which’d give it some room to go after LeBron James and Chris Bosh.
Chicago also has a $5.2 million trade exception
That could easily help to balance the salaries in a trade (I’m assuming Portland would send at least one player making less than $5.2 million).
The person who said it couldn’t work might not have been aware of that.
Asked about that on Blogabull
Problem would be that using that exception to absorb salary would almost always put them in the luxury tax and they say that ain’t happening with Reinsdorf/Paxson. I’m more and more thinking such a deal woulnd’t be with the Bulls since they seem very reluctant to give up Deng, but we will see…
also
you can’t combine a trade exception with a player’s salary to aborb another bigger salary.
Rule #1 of nitpicking is to get it right.
nvm, I get what you are saying Story
it would actually be a seperate trade (in official NBA terms) – they would trade the exception for our player X (say Outlaw) as trade #1, and then the rest of the deal would go down as trade #2
Rule #1 of nitpicking is to get it right.
You sir, are a genious
I have allways loved Deng, and think he would absolutly thrive in the portland environment.
Man, we should forfeit before roy’s hammy explodes, knocking him into LMA’s ear who loses his balance and hits Greg’s knee… - HurraKane212
http://www.nba.com/news/miles_10_080919.html
hughes would make us a lottery team
"Only dunk and go to the defense." Rudy Fernandez
by Sabonis4Ever on Jan 29, 2009 5:59 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah
Like we WON the lottery, because we’d be awesome with him!
Hughes is an amazing player with a great contract, smart veteran shot selection, and consistent effort and production.
Mortimer
Copy paste
Post on Blog a Bull. They are gonna think your dumb. No friends in Chicago for you.
"Only dunk and go to the defense." Rudy Fernandez
by Sabonis4Ever on Jan 29, 2009 9:08 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
+1
Man, we should forfeit before roy’s hammy explodes, knocking him into LMA’s ear who loses his balance and hits Greg’s knee… - HurraKane212
http://www.nba.com/news/miles_10_080919.html
It's Hughes contract that I was after
TimG’s idea, actually. Next year instead of having RLEC Porland would have LHEC, and just at the perfect time that everyone will be looking for ways to dump salary heading into the big FA derby. If Larry never (hypothetically) saw the court for Nate, I wouldn’t complain a bit
But I like my original idea better (Hinrich/Deng) It’s just that I was told 2 weeks ago (in error) that it wasn’t feasible because Deng was base year. (I agree that Hinrich/Hughes doesn’t fit the “championship-caliber” deal that Quick was referring to during Sean’s chat) The Hinrich/Deng duo is a much better choice if KP wants to “go for it” in 2010-2013
great point about the LHEC!
Being a Blazer fan is fun!
by Blazermaniac77 on Jan 29, 2009 11:14 PM PST up reply actions
here is a link to how it could possibly go down
It could be May that is thrown in or any other player they don’t want. There is only about $500k needed to make it work besides the players I mentioned above.
I am and will continue to be very skeptical...
Of any trade or trade rumor that involves Outlaw
I understand that it is a business and it could happen, but he really does seem to be a very important glue guy on the team (Especially where B-roy is concerned).
Rooo-D!
by truls on Jan 29, 2009 3:44 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Brandon's a grown up
I think he’ll be able to lace up his sneakers without Travis around to hold his hand.
it's not just brandon, though
watching how the players interact with one another during timeouts, player introductions, at practice, etc., travis isn’t just brandon’s best friend. he’s kinda everyone’s best friend.
+1
I’m not saying he’s untouchable, because very few players are if the right deal comes around, but Outlaw does a lot of great things for the Blazers that a non “chemistry major” like Bob Whitsitt wouldn’t value enough
Jerryd Bayless = Marlo Stanfield
- Early stage Marlo at this point, but Bayless is the emotionless killer new to the game. He will take over, and there will be causalties – it’s just a matter of time.
by blazeraddict on Jan 30, 2009 9:42 PM PST up reply actions
Like what?
Does he make salsa for the team BBQs? Let everyone win at Dance Dance Revolution?
These people are PROFESSIONAL ATHLETES. Just because their buddy isn’t in the locker room anymore doesn’t mean they’re going to say “oh, well, I WANTED a championship, but not without Travis!”
And I’d like to know how you two have so much knowledge of the team friendships. Do they hang out every Wednesday and watch Lost? Do Brandon and Travis have family Scrabble nights?
What does Travis “do” for the Blazers, exactly, aside from pick some jammin’ warm up tunes and make people laugh?
Hire a comedian if you want to lighten the mood. Call up your old crew if you want a friend. I hate to break it to you, but these guys are here to win basketball games.
If the trade involves the Bobcats
I think that Frye gets traded. “Chanin” played well under LB in NY.
Blazer's fan since '84, Spurs fan when they are not playing Portland.
↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A
Not a rotation player ... at least not right now.
"These are dreams that we have." --Rudolfo Fernandez
Bobcats
Why would they want Sergio? DJ is their future and even with the money room they get Outlaw for Wallace is hurting them badly and a backup PG for Felton isn’t helping them.
I know we don't want to think about it, but is it possible the other player being asked for is Rudy?
Funny that Sean did not ask about him, because he is a rotation player not a starter, and the closest thing to untouchable among non-starters.
That would obviously make it tougher to pull the trigger. The other deals, especially the Chicago deal, would be so much of a no-brainer that it would be almost impossible to NOT do it. With Rudy, you have to really swallow hard before doing it.
Sergio + Rudy as a package makes sense, in that they have extra value on the court together...
The cilantro in your tapioca pudding since 2007.™
Sergio+Rudy
Could be scary if they got tossed on a team like Timberwolves. Some actual guard play to go with Love/AJ. Not sure what we’d want from Wolves other than MM hype.
Championship consideration?
Calderon and Bosh?
I try to help with everything," Fernandez said. "If the coach says go rebound, I go rebound. I work for the team.
""If I'm playing this game to get media and attention, I shouldn't be here," Aldridge said. "I'm here to play basketball, and do what I can do to help this team win."
by Dragonage on Jan 29, 2009 4:02 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
in that deal
he’d have to go back to Toronto for Bosh. – Elgin
I get what I deserve. I deserve what I get. I have it so I deserve it. I deserve
it for I have it. I get what I deserve. What I deserve - what I deserve what
I get. I have it so I deserve. - Gentle Giant
Trade was for no Blazer starters
"Only dunk and go to the defense." Rudy Fernandez
by Sabonis4Ever on Jan 29, 2009 6:00 PM PST up reply actions
RLEC + 2 players in the current rotation for a SF and PG from an Eastern team...
Hinrich + Deng works with the trade machine but it’s a mega salary dump and seems one-sided…
Jefferson + a pg from Milwaukee might have legs.
The cilantro in your tapioca pudding since 2007.™
sessions? LUKE? cool with either!
Being a Blazer fan is fun!
by Blazermaniac77 on Jan 29, 2009 11:16 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, sure .... we're going to get those guys all right for a couple of rotation players.
Brandon Roy just destroyed everything in his path. There's your rational analysis -- Dave
Ok then lets make it happen.
Brandon Roy just destroyed everything in his path. There's your rational analysis -- Dave
That's what I've been saying!
You act like you don’t want Chris Bosh on your team.
I think a nice package of RLEC, Diogu, and the rights to Nedzad Sininovic will do the trick. Toronto might think they like Bosh, but KP can get on the phone and remind them how bad their record is right now, and it’s all Bosh’s fault, and that he is a team cancer, and they would be lucky to get rid of him.
By the end of the call, we’ll have Chris Bosh on our team playing small forward, and KP will have the number to Colangelo’s secret Italian shirt collar tailor.
Other teams exist just to serve our needs. We’re the only fanbase or organization that gets attached to our players emotionally, and thus we get to cherry pick who we want.
Mortimer
Nedzad Sininovic?
You’re just making up names now. – Elgin
You don't have to wear a clock around your neck to know what time it is at Bob's. Meals cooked with real religious fervor! Thousands of empty seats in the back, for the lonely set. At Bob's you don't have to leave your loved one out in the street - your car is as welcome as you are! - Firesign Theatre.
No way, Morti is an honest man, he just misspells
The great Nedzad Sinanovic is an unsigned draft pick of the Blazers, and the next Arvydas Sabonis. Well, he isn’t, but he has the same size. That must count for something.
Nedzad Sinanovic (26, Bosnia-Herzegovina), drafted 54th in the 2003 NBA draft. Value: Experience in Bosnia, Belgium, Spain (Real Madrid!!!) and Germany (Cologne). Last season not very impressive with 6 ppg, 4 rpg. And wohoo, did I mention he is 7’3"!
LOL
thanks Norsktroll! – Elgin
You don't have to wear a clock around your neck to know what time it is at Bob's. Meals cooked with real religious fervor! Thousands of empty seats in the back, for the lonely set. At Bob's you don't have to leave your loved one out in the street - your car is as welcome as you are! - Firesign Theatre.
Deal with the Bucks (from a previous trade drawer)
http://www.blazersedge.com/2009/1/13/719259/the-trade-to-end-all-trade
That would fit Quick’s description "3 bench players and RLEC for a PG and a SF", and the Bucks need/want to save money as sad as it is for them. Here they would save a ton. Chicago with Hinrich and Deng and Charlotte with Wallace and Felton would be the other ones that fit.
Bucks are very high on Sessions
"Only dunk and go to the defense." Rudy Fernandez
by Sabonis4Ever on Jan 29, 2009 6:01 PM PST up reply actions
Deng is BYC
unless you know of a workaround with a 3rd team with capspace, Deng can’t be included in a multiplayer deal and have the salaries match
With Redd going down
Sessions is the starting shooting guard for the Bucks. I don’t see how they fill that position with Sergio and Outlaw. If the trade is for Sessions and Jefferson, I think they’d want Rudy or Bayless.
Or, not.
I do not think Wallace and Felton would be much of an upgrade.
I could be wrong now. But I don't think so!
Have you?
Wallace is a nice piece, but isn’t a great defender. Felton is a shoot-first PG, and is an RFA at the end of the season. What would we do with him? Let him go, that’s what we’d do.
Wallace is much better than Travis
How does that NOT improve the Blazers? Gerald has +6 on Outlaw’s PER. He holds his opponents to 4 less than Travis does, as well.
Net 48-Minute Production by Position
Wallace: +4.6
Outlaw: -5.5
—-
How does this not greatly improve us?
You're looking too much at plain stats here and they do not show our improvement
I believe you are correct, but Wallace is asked to carry a team,
Outlaw is asked to stay out of the way and shoot threes unless he is the only offensive option out there.
Defense is a team thing. Numbers there aren’t telling the whole story.
".. is gumby an alien?"
Yeah, you're right that Gerald Wallace isn't a "great" defender.
The adjective “great” doesn’t do Wallace justice, for he’s an outstanding defender.
Durability and jump shooting percentages are concerns surrounding Wallace. though.
I do not like Felton at all
But Gerald Wallace is one of the best defenders in the league.
Literally.
Morty
Wallace isn't a great defender?
he might be the best on our team if we get him.
Being a Blazer fan is fun!
by Blazermaniac77 on Jan 29, 2009 11:18 PM PST up reply actions
Wallace is a stud!
Did anyone watch what he did to US! He got to the hoop at will on us and posterized oden. Batum could not even bother him.
i think everyone is forgetting
martell webster, great guy with a nice stroke, can take it to the rim, reasonable defender, JUST RESIGNED FOR ABOUT 4 MILL per year.
i would like to see what martell + batum can do together before exploring trade scenarios
exactly... we can win a title this season
and then figure out in September who gets to win a title with us next year (Martell)
by Bust a Bucket on Jan 29, 2009 6:25 PM PST up reply actions
The RLEC is the last piece we have to fill the roster with the team that
will attempt to win titles down the road. You don’t trade that piece just to find a replacement for Martell this season
Of course not
but what other position are you looking to updade? I’m guessing SG, PF and C are pretty set for the foreseeable future. Then you have PG and SF and you think about Bayless improving and Blake being serviceable (remember all the mediocre PG’s that won titles?)… Sure, if we could upgrade the PG or backup PF positions, I’d be happy to do so. SF is the spot that is probably easiest to upgrade.
Anyone who think Travis ever has or ever will be better than either Jefferson or Wallace is just denying the truth. Will there be a logjam at SF next year when Martell gets back? Perhaps that’s when you trade the SF you picked up this year for a PG or something.
I’m not saying we need to make a trade to replace Martell for 1 year. We need to make a trade that is in our long term best interest and that may very well involve getting an SF.
by Bust a Bucket on Jan 29, 2009 7:08 PM PST up reply actions
Don't you think KP would do that deal immediately even without any "sweetener" if it was on the table?
New Jersey is not in the market to trade Harris. Carter yes, Harris no.
the latest i heard they dont want to really trade carter either
by Ben Golliver on Jan 29, 2009 6:13 PM PST up reply actions
Anyone Consider....
….Caron Butler + Etan Thomas? WAS is in luxury tax territory, and aren’t going to be competive anytime soon. They want to get rid of Thomas’ contract, cause it’s bad, and they’re paying tax.
We’d get the big-time upgrade at SF, and a back-up PF that has definitely been identified as a “position of need” – especially if we have to trade Travis. Thomas plays D, is injury prone IMHO, and isn’t a real offensive threat. That said, he can play D, and let Rudy and Jerryd go crazy on the second unit.
I don’t have access to the trade machine, but those two for RLEC, Sergio, & Travis? I’m almost certain that the salaries line up.
If he became a PG though
Etan Thomas would have great size. Ain’t no mo’ PGs posting us up in the playoffs, Damon style, if we got Etan running the show!
M—
Mortimer, what have you been watching/reading that has made you so sarcastic tonight?
I like it.
The little brother of Olden Polynice went to college with me. And no, he did not dress like a police officer.
Trade with Chicago
I think the Blazers have been eyeing Hinrich for awhile to upgrade the PG position, and the sweetener would be Andres Nocioni. He plays SF/PF and seems to have a tough-guy reputation which we lack now. Sergio would probably be gone, and hopefully Frye rather than Outlaw.
by Sumito on Jan 29, 2009 6:31 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
i don't see us giving up Trout for Noc/Hinrich
but then again, it would leave Webster/Noc/Outlaw to fill 2 back-up positions………Deng will be included instead of Noc
Nocioni is not a sweetener, the guy is the plague
His contract runs until 2012 or 2013 (team option). And he plays horrible on most nights these days, judging from any recent game recap at Blogabull and my own eyes. Yes, he once was a top player for Argentina, but as it stands he is in no shape or form better than having Travis. If that is the price to pay for Hinrich, I would rather go with Steve instead.
more of a cancer than travis?
Travis is anti-cancer. He reconciled Roy and Aldridge, after all. He’s Penicillin (the cancer-fighting variety).
Travis Outlaw is an alien, but in a good way.
Awesome Graphic was provided by CIC, because he felt like he should be hazed.
by Clevelander among roses on Jan 30, 2009 12:54 AM PST up reply actions
He's also lost quite a few games due to his defense
I don’t want to rehash this, but Travis is not right for the team no matter how good a friend he is with Brandon Roy.
Yes
I hate, hate, hate, hate Nocioni’s game. He is the perfect example of a horrible, horrible player that the average fan thinks is doing something because runs around the court like an idiot.
Hate Nocioni. Hate him.
Thus, I would hate it if we traded for him.
Mortimer
Yeah, but are we going to take such a huge contract dump just to get Mo Williams?
I mean he’s been good on the Cavs but, c’mon!
".. is gumby an alien?"
Actually trading for LeBron could be a possibility
If he’s made it clear that he’s leaving after next year. How much would you give up to rent him for a year and a half?
Cleveland would fight for a championship this year even if they knew he was leaving....
Trading LBJ would be an all time blunder…
RUDY > MJ
LeBron James isn't going anywhere from now until the summer of 2010.
Come the summer of 2010, James will either stay in Cleveland or go to New York.
never gets old...
Being a Blazer fan is fun!
by Blazermaniac77 on Jan 29, 2009 11:24 PM PST up reply actions
It is great deal
not only do we get a great point guard, but also an expiring contract for that huge summer of 2010
by thomasikehara on Jan 30, 2009 6:11 AM PST up reply actions
well
i really like the deal i definatley makes us better i like that it might be sergio and not bayless and i agree he will be the starting pg soon but maybe not that soon
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=45420153025299227531026&teams=303030222222&te=&cash=
Nah
Quick said that it was a pg that has been recently talked about. Have you heard of any recent talks about KP coveting Felton? It’s got to be Hinrich or Calderon… and Calderon aint happeing.
Can you supply
a credible link to a Felton to Portland rumor?
It may take a second
You know, since I’ll have to look over every post throughout the summer. I remember hearing it last season.
I remember it too! for sure been talked about
KP can’t talk openly about other teams players any ways, so we wont find a clip from him
Being a Blazer fan is fun!
by Blazermaniac77 on Jan 29, 2009 11:25 PM PST up reply actions
is SF really a need?
I don’t really understand why there are so many folks here saying / implying that SF is a need. If you want to spell out team needs, I wouldn’t argue too much with PG (though I think that Sergio and Rex have shown plenty of glimpses that they might be quite a serviceable tandem in the future). And I definitely wouldn’t argue that backup PF is shaky—obviously and especially if Outlaw is a part of whatever deal we make. But SF?
Webster deserves a shot to earn his contract before we write him off. But more importantly, can we really imagine a better fit with the starters now (and long-term) than Batum? There are only so many shots to go around. If Roy, LMA, and Oden are all going to be flirting with 20 points each and every night, that really doesn’t leave a ton of shots for our SF. Nic is a perfect fit… he can basically defend the opponent’s best player every night, and he thrives on it. He’s the rare guy in the NBA who takes so much pride in his D that he doesn’t care about his offensive numbers. And he’s shown potential the potential to become a better scorer down the road so that we’d have that element from him if we needed it.
The Blazers aren’t hurting too badly for offense. D is where they need help. Do we really want to be looking to add a 17PPG SF to the starting lineup, taking away minutes from one of our better defenders and creating the possibility that we’re going to have guys complaining about not getting enough shots?
If we don’t get a legit All-Star out of the transaction, I, for one, hope that KP just keeps that RLEC in his pocket and waits to see how the season plays out, especially after Webster comes back…
"want" vs. "need"
Of course you can argue that SF isn’t a “need”.
But that doesn’t mean you don’t upgrade it if you have the chance. You make a great case for the future potential of Martell and Nic. I think you’re right and I think everybody assumes these trade discussion don’t involve them. But the key words are “future” and “potential”. Nic is 19 years old and still needs a lot of seasoning.
The argument about defense is simple. If we’re trading RLEC + Travis + Sergio, there are very few players we could get in return that would make us worse off defensively. Travis’ defense borders on hideous sometimes. Sergio is ok, but nothing special.
by Bust a Bucket on Jan 29, 2009 7:52 PM PST up reply actions
How is it not a need?
Webster’s got potential, but he’s never proven anything. Outlaw’s a great 6th man, but he’s no starter. Batum’s a ways off, as well.
If the opportunity is there to get an established NBA butt-kickin’ SF, you take it.
Guess it just depends on your definition of butt-kickin'
If we were talking about an NBA All-Defensive team SF like Prince or maybe Camby, I’d be right there with you. But I think Batum has been playing very credible defense, without any consideration given to his age. Maybe I just haven’t watched Wallace play enough, but I don’t see him as being enough of an improvement—defensively—over Nic to warrant giving up the RLEC. Offensively, certainly, but I don’t think adding scoring to our starting lineup right now is really the key to winning games.
There's homerism
And then there’s this.
Wallace is better in every possible way, and we can afford it.
but why?
I won’t deny being a homer and I won’t deny being a Batum fan.
But whether we can afford it is not the point. We have cap flexibility right now, but it’s not going to be here forever. We get to make a handful more moves, and then we have to start paying Roy and Aldridge a salary closer to what they’re actually worth. A few years down the line we are in the same boat with Oden, Rudy, and Bayless. So we can’t just cavalierly pee away the RLEC because “we can afford it”.
I’m not saying Wallace isn’t a good player, nor that he’s not an improvement over our current roster at that position. But I think Nic is already playing D in the same ballpark. And if we had Wallace, his scoring average would go down. Plus he’s not a shooter so he’s competing for space in the lane where we really want Oden and LMA to be active.
I’m saying Wallace would be a definite talent upgrade but not necessarily a cohesive piece to fit into an offensive scheme that needs to feature Oden and LMA. So maybe there are better places to spend our cap room and the valuable, one-time asset that is the RLEC.
He's not in the same ballpark
And what are we going to do with this ‘cap flexibility?’
We have a loaded gun NOW. It’s time for KP to shoot.
I think perspective from other fan bases is important.
For example, if we did a trade, and the other team’s fans were all pissed about it because we robbed them, we’d feel good about ourselves, right? I mean, people watch their own team more than anyone else.
Hop over to Blogabull sometime. They’re dropping Cleveland Steamers on Kirk Hinrich as we speak. Now granted they hate everyone on their team, but still, if a team’s fan base doesn’t like a guy, I’m weary about wanting him.
Jefferson, Harris, etc.. are guys that are coveted by their teams. Those are the guys I want to trade for. Deng is also, but Hinrich doesn’t seem like the right guy to piece with him.
The little brother of Olden Polynice went to college with me. And no, he did not dress like a police officer.
The guys on Blogabull hate most of the guys on their team. If they had not lucked into the #1 pick for Rose or went with Beasley, they would probably hate the whole team by now. Some want to keep Gordon at almost all costs like their editor Matt, some want to rebuild around Rose and Deng, some want to ship Tyrus Thomas and Noah out. It’s pretty much a mess. The only thing that most seem to agree on is that their owner is stupid/slow to make deals, Nocioni is playing like crap and VDN is coaching like a bloody rookie which he is. If you want to keep Gordon, you have to move other guards and since nobody wants Hughes Hinrich is the next best option.
That make sense if they only wanted Kirk gone for convenience sake
but they seem to believe he just isnt all that good at basketball. i believe his last game was referred as “another one of his stinkers.” i’m just saying if they wouldn’t shed a tear over the guy, i’m nervous.
The little brother of Olden Polynice went to college with me. And no, he did not dress like a police officer.
Is it possible to trade RLEC and our pick this year
for a bad contract and a lotto teams pick next year and maybe rent a vet sf for the rest of the season?
by southern oregon on Jan 29, 2009 8:05 PM PST reply actions
to quote KG
“Anything is POSSIBLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEE!!!”
Rule #1 of nitpicking is to get it right.
I can't believe they'd trade Harris, a borderline All-Star who's still young.
Carter, OTOH…
I don’t want VC mainly b/c his contract is ridiculous.
by Badalona Baddie on Jan 29, 2009 8:13 PM PST up reply actions
not something i personally like...
For those that know more about our cap situation..
Is there anyway we can land Harris in the future without giving up Roy, Oden, or Aldridge.. or is this just impossible?
Im of the belief that we’re fine at SF when Webster comes back, and into the future with Martell and Nic..
However, I personally feel the PG that we’re going to win titles with isn’t on the roster right now and that should be the primary focus when discussing the RLEC.
And Heinrich doesn’t do it for me. Man I really wish we could put something together to get Calderon, but that’s not gonna happen
not really a cap issue
getting Harris requires a trade, which means we just have to send back between 75% and 125% of his salary to ignore the cap considerations.
It’s not impossible or even difficult to do money-wise without including any of those 3 guys. The tricky part is getting NJ to agree to whatever deal we come up with. good luck with that.
Rule #1 of nitpicking is to get it right.
Do they have any incentive to deal him in the next couple yrs?
What’s his contract, and will it prevent them from going after LeBron?
No, they have all reasons to keep him. He is not overpriced for what he does and my Mavs were stupid to send him out
LeBron wouldn’t come to a depleted roster anyway, then he can just stay in Cleveland which will have the cap space to sign another max free agent as one of only two or three teams. Bosh/Amare/Wade to Cleveland is not impossible, and all teams hoping to land LeBron would look rather stupid.
Devin Harris and Vince Carter, welcome to Portland
Hey I can dream can’t I? No I’m not a VC fan but that makes a pretty amazing roster on paper right?
Blazer Fan
It probably makes no big difference, but KP already did business with Chicago this year
He traded draft pick Ömer Asik for second round picks. So there is a connection between the GMs. And he might give those picks back to seal a deal, though I doubt that would be what it takes to upgrade a package to Hinrich and Deng instead of say Hinrich and Sefolosha (I’m in denial about Noc. I just don’t want that guy near my team).
if we got noc instead of deng i might cry
Man, we should forfeit before roy’s hammy explodes, knocking him into LMA’s ear who loses his balance and hits Greg’s knee… - HurraKane212
http://www.nba.com/news/miles_10_080919.html
by maid tu rek on Jan 29, 2009 10:14 PM PST up reply actions
could the SF be Caron Butler?
maybe in a trade like this?
by Badalona Baddie on Jan 29, 2009 8:44 PM PST reply actions
Why?
Why would Charlotte trade Raymon Felton (who’s their best trading chip) and Sean May for Sergio? That doesn’t make sense. They’re shooting for something better than Sergio for Felton.
or if it's Vince Carter, how about this?
I like this deal, and the Blazers sure as hell would; would the other teams?
by Badalona Baddie on Jan 29, 2009 8:49 PM PST reply actions
if it's true that only 2 teams are involved, it can't be Chicago.
First, Deng and Hinrich’s contracts are beastly. Second, Deng’s is a BYC, which makes it hard to deal him without a 3rd team involved.
It can’t be New Jersey, because the Nets would be INSANE to deal Devin Harris.
It can’t be Philly, because it’s clear that Iguodala, not Brand, is their star. Though an Andre Miller deal would be manna for Portland.
It can’t be Washington, because they have Butler, but not a healthy PG who’s worth a damn.
It could be Charlotte, but would KP really take Wallace considering his injury history and remaining contract?
Could it be Atlanta? Marvin Williams and Bibby? I don’t see that either. I don’t think Marvin is better than Outlaw, at least right now.
I’m stumped. Surely there’s a 3rd team! Maybe Quick is being deceptive.
by Badalona Baddie on Jan 29, 2009 9:05 PM PST up reply actions
The "Deng/BYC" urban legend
was debunked earlier by by Feesampo21 on Jan 29, 2009 5:49 PM PST
we could actually do it. So when you trade a BYC player you can only take back 125% +100,000 of 50% of his current salary. So in Deng’s case it would be:
$9,385,000 * 50% = $4,692.500
$4,692.500 + Hinrich’s salary of $10 Mil = $14,692,500
($14,692,500 * 125) + $100,000 = $18,465,625
Which is the maximum $ amount Chicago can take back.
BUT the Blazers have to be able to absorb his entire salary ($9,385,000). That with Hinrich’s gives us a total receipt of $19,385,000
Now when you add up all of our contracts:
Raef = $12,722,500
Outlaw = $4,000,000
Sergio = $874,000
You get a total of $17,596,500. So the max Portland could absorb is:
($17,596,500 * 125) + $100,000 = $22,095,625
So to summarize:
Max Chicago Could Absorb = $18,465,625
Max Portland Could Absorb = $22,095,625
ACTUAL Amount Chicago Would Absorb = $17,596,500
ACTUAL Amount Portland Would Absorb = $19,385,000
So as you can see, the numbers would work….
Deng’s BYC status is not a deal killer. The ESPN trade machine takes these contingencies into account ,automaticallty
Maybe Quick doesn't have a clue and just needed something to write about.
"She turned me into a newt!
A newt?
...I got better."
Yup
That’s my guess.
portlandmenonsports.blogspot.com
by Derek @Portland Men on Sports on Jan 30, 2009 5:31 PM PST up reply actions
LOVE GERALD WALLACE and Felton
I thought the exact same thing. I have been coveting gerald wallace. I think this injury may just be the ticket that helps us get him. Gerald Wallace is all star quality. Our toughness factor goes up about 4 notches with this trade.
We all know what K*be did in Colorado to that girl. Dear Lord, please let whatever team that plays the LA Clankers beat them to oblivion. Amen.
Man I hate trade talk
I should go of in this thread like that dude did in the Fatty post. The only trade rumors fans hear about are dead trade rumors.
≤ˆˆ≥
You should..
half go off in this thread and half in the other.
"Well, Travis just showed us that we can go to Travis Outlaw." - Nate McMillan
tom just wants to get off
which thread is immaterial
by Bust a Bucket on Jan 29, 2009 11:20 PM PST up reply actions
I certainly hope you're right.
Wallace seems like a good addition but at what price?
I think the team still doesn’t know what they have as far as chemistry and ability while Martell is still out. McMillan said several times last season that he views Martell as having the ability to be a lock-down defender, and he definately is a much better offensive player than Batum. When Martell gets back, I have no doubt that his presence will improve both units because of Batum moving to the backup role at the 3 which will solidify the defense for the second unit with Bayless and also solidify Travis role as the backup PF – where he is so much more effective than when he attempts to play the three.
KP keeps reiterating the same point over and over again in interviews, and that is patience. Yeah, you make the moves that make you’re team better, but he’s never been one to make a lot of moves in the season, nor has he been one to make moves to try and improve immediately. I don’t know if KP would make a move that involves a major role-player as opposed to moving a guy like Channing or Ike. But then I’m not convinced a trade is necessary at this point.
"She turned me into a newt!
A newt?
...I got better."
I think it means base year contract
No way I could explain it
by southern oregon on Jan 29, 2009 10:26 PM PST up reply actions
Feesampo21
Did a pretty good job of explaining “base year compensation” up above (I copied his math from earlier today)
"…when you trade a BYC player you can only take back 125% +100,000 of 50% of his current salary.
So in Deng’s case it would be:
$9,385,000 * 50% = $4,692.500
$4,692.500 + Hinrich’s salary of $10 Mil = $14,692,500
($14,692,500 * 125) + $100,000 = $18,465,625
Which is the maximum $ amount Chicago can take back.
BUT the Blazers have to be able to absorb his entire salary ($9,385,000). That with Hinrich’s gives us a total receipt of $19,385,000"
It’s collective bargaining “capology” stuff that Tom Penn eats for lunch. Suffice to say, if KP wants Deng/Hinrich, he can go get them…all because of RLEC.
And assuming Paxson doesn’t get a better offer
KP has made two midseason trades
Dixon for Fred Jones and Taurean Green for Von Wafer.
I wouldn’t hold my breath.
RLEC is more valuable to Portland, post-Miles fiasco
Travis is PF
Remember since Nate dropped Channing out of the rotation Travis has been playing PF. He has not proven to be as effective at SF. One that would work is Iguedola and Miller for Rafe, Sergio and Travis. Hopefully nothing happens and this team continues to mature as is.
possibilities for all eastern conference teams
this is my first comment ever so chill. quick said the positions we would be receiving are pg and sf, “the two positions we are in need of,” for RLEC and two current bench rotation players. RLEC + travis and sergio makes sense the most sense, if we dont trade travis that gives us 4 sfs to work with and if we dont trade sergio that gives us 4 pgs to work with.
so…..
Travis
Sergio
RLEC
for…..
ATLANTA HAWKS
marvin williams/acie law?? doesnt seem very likely seeing how hawks feel in comfortable playoff position? but hasnt marvin been mentioned in trade talks before? POSSIBLE
BOSTON
rajon ro- WILL NOT HAPPEN
CHARLOTTE
gerald wallace/dj augustine?? this was my initial speculation, but i guess the cats are really high on dj. Still, felton AND wallace for our guys? doesnt sound too likely. i would also like dj over raymond. POSSIBLE
CHICAGO
deng/ hinrich? this one is interesting. not really for the sf position, i like deng and all, hes a good scorer, but soft players are my least favorite. hinrich reminds me a lot of blake, but bigger, defends better, shoots the 3 well, and is a good floor general. but is he the pg of the future??! VERY POSSIBLE
CLEVELAND
daniel gibson/wally sczerbiak? probably not, pavlovich doesnt seem to fit well either. none of these players are worth the RLEC anyway. NOT GONNA HAPPEN
DETROIT
rodney stuckey!!! not. AI?! kp would not approve. tayshaun?!?!?!?!?!?! too bad detroit is in love with him. and we have nic to look forward to. PROBABLY NOT
INDIANA
mike dunleavy/ jamaal tinsley. no way portland will take jarrett jack back, tj sounds like a lock for their future. dont think they’ll ever trade ALL STAR danny granger. i like dunleavy though. MAYBE??
MILWAUKEE
richard jefferson/ luke ridnour. Also very likely. jefferson would be a reliable veteran who can hit the corner three, and doesnt miss free throws :) ridnour playing for mcmillan again?! who knows, but i think ramon sessions is staying put. but maybe not! scott skiles is said to love the ridnour-type pg. VERY POSSIBLE
NEW JERSEY
devin harris/ yi jianlian or bobby simmons. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE
NEW YORK
nate robinson/ wilson chandler. Al harrington would fit as well, but you can never really tell who d’antoni is in favor of, hes always shuffling his rotation around. i would love a growing wilson chandler and a backup spark plug nate robinson. this is also one of those teams pursuing lebron, and the RLEC would be great for them. PLEASE!
ORLANDO
mickael pietrus/ ehh… jameer nelson is an all star now and rashard and turk are must haves if the magic want to make a push for a title. pietrus would be nice.. and hes been in former talks as well. PROBABLY WONT HAPPEN
PHILADELPHIA
andre iguodala/ andre miller?? sounds too good to be true. but thaddeus young is their future and royal ivey just has a cool name. NOT GONNA HAPPEN
TORONTO
jamario moon/ ehhh…. jose calderon isnt going anywhere and the other candidates at sf cant defend worth crap. kapono is a nice shooter, but we have webster, and hes black, and is the better defender. NOT GONNA HAPPEN
WASHINGTON
mike james/ antwan jamison?? maybe caron? all i know is jamison looks like he wants out. old juan dixon at pg? possible reunion with steve blake? probably not. but i would take either jamison or caron. both players capable of blow up games. POSSIBLE
what do you think?!
im also planning on making this a seperate post
I've seen Washington mentioned a few times . . .
I have a hunch that we’re looking at getting Antawn Jamison . . . Oh please, please, please let it be so!
The Dude abides
KP is talking.
if this were the trade, then there’d be a second. After all, Frye and Diogu are up for contracts, and if we don’t trade or sign them, they’ll be a load on our cap space. And since we don’t use them, we can’t justify paying $3 million to $5 million a year to keep them on the bench. Then, if you pick up Felton, we’ll have Blake and Bayless behind him, and one of those isn’t going to spend forever on he third team gathering splinters. And, of course, if you pick up Wallace, you’ll have Webster/Batum behind him, and one of those will eventually want to somewhere where they can play – not gather dust.
Still, I’m one who thinks that it will be Charlotte, Chicago or Minnesota. Charlotte because Brown has made it clear that Augustin is his PG of the future, and also because he’s broadcast the fact that they’re looking to move Wallace. Chicago because Heinrich isn’t a combo guard, but that’s how he’s being used, and his trade value isn’t going up if he’s used out of position. His best year was two years ago, after all. And then, of course, just about everyone else on that team but Rose seems to be available. And then we have Minnesota. McHale’s got a mess – or someone has a mess, because they never seem to get the right mix of players. And they have one PG we might like.
We’ll see, of course.
MIN
is a Western Conference team. That’s not the trade Quick is talkin’ about.
by rudydrops3s on Jan 30, 2009 10:24 AM PST up reply actions
Milwaukie or Charlotte
I t’s gotta be either Jefferson and Sessions or Wallace and Felton.
Quick said the trade helps the Blazers at PG and SF. A lot of people are wasting time talking about Power Forwards.
It can’t be Chicago for a lot of reasons, not the least of which is the fact that Hinrich averages like 8 points and 4 assists. Steve Blake averages like 11 points and 4 assists, and everyone says he’s not the Championship level starter. Gimme a break.
I think you're right...
Milwaukee or Charlotte. My initial reaction was Chicago because they have not been playing well but still have some coveted pieces, but I agree that Hinrich is not much of an upgrade at PG. Gerald Wallace or Richard Jefferson would be great additions to our team. If we could get either of them by trading two bench players I think I would pull the trigger. We would have a true starting 3 and our team would be really scary.
Any PG, Roy, Wallace/Jefferson, Aldridge and Oden? That’s a damn scary lineup.
does anyone else think
we should just stay pat, and instead settle who is our future, pg-blake, bayless, or sergio
sf-webster, batum, or trout. One at each position will have to go eventually and once that happens we are set.
"Howard, he know me" Rudy
After some more research, the most likely combos for this rumor in my opinion as they look in the trade machine
Bucks: Jefferson, Sessions, Elson/Allen as filler. I think that deal hits all the variables outlined by Quick very well and the Bucks seem like a team in limbo between cutting payroll and trying to reach the playoffs. If they would really like to save some money, we could add in Channing as a fourth player and take back Gadzuric in return instead of Elson/Allen, but that’s not what Quick said. Bayless or Rudy instead of Sergio possible in terms of matching salaries.
Bulls: Deng, Hinrich. Bulls fans are adamant that we don’t get both of these for our bench players. We will see. This particular deal would work with either Rudy or Sergio, not with Bayless.
Bobcats: Wallace, Felton, Brown/Ajinca as filler. Looks like there is less room for variation here in terms of salaries than with some other teams. E.g. I tried to add Channing since they could use him, to no avail when going by the Quick parameters. Augustin looks like their man for the future so I didn’t put him in.
Hawks: Bibby, Marvin Williams. I don’t like Bibby, but it’s entirely possible. In fact e.g. on RealGM they seem to have agreed that’s the one.
Miami: Marion, Chalmers. I don’t like that either because of Marion’s drop in performance since the trade from Phoenix and his age, but again it’s possible since Miami is obviously shopping Marion. Would work for Bayless or Sergio in the mix. But would KP even want Chalmers after what happened at the rookie orientation?
Obscure combos could be possible with Washington (for Arenas and Butler if they go into full rebuilding and want to cut the salaries of Raef, Channing and maybe only keep Travis) and New Jersey (for Harris and Carter), but I have a hard time seeing those go through. If it happens, all the better.
by Norsktroll on Jan 30, 2009 7:22 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
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