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Did Darius Make RLEC more valuable to us?

Hmm,   Just wondering...  Now that Dairus's 9 mil is on our cap for this and next season, I believe that means that we are going to be "over the cap"...    And if I'm not mistaken, part of RLEC's value is that, when his contract expires, we get to use some % of that "expiring contract" to sign a player EVEN IF WE ARE OVER THE CAP...

Not to mention, RLEC has some insurance clause thingy that pays the Blazers (or whoever owns that contract) some big bucks every month... which Blazers ownership might want to "offset" the Miles impact...

So, bottom line: does Darius mean that we now need RLEC as much as anybody else, and therefore, can we now delete 50% of the trade rumors??

The other interesting thing is that with RLEC, you can sign one of the many great free agents...   If you trade RLEC, you're trading him for a player under a big contract...and probably can't dip into that big free agent pool...

So does this mean that Darius might have actually HELPED the Blazers??

 

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No.

When I die, I'd like to go out like my grandfather, peacefully in his sleep. Not screaming like the passengers in his car. - jack handy

by TheTinfoil on Jan 27, 2009 6:09 PM PST reply actions  

not my understanding
we get to use some % of that “expiring contract” to sign a player EVEN IF WE ARE OVER THE CAP…

Clarification from Norsktroll or MythTeller would be helpful though…

by Bust a Bucket on Jan 27, 2009 6:09 PM PST reply actions  

absolutely not correct

Rule #1 of nitpicking is to get it right.

by douglast on Jan 27, 2009 7:29 PM PST up reply actions  

No

If we are over the cap, we can’t sign anyone in free agency unless it is through some sort of exception, like a trade exception (which I don tthink we have any) or the mid level exception (which I don’t know if we have?) or the two year exception thing, or whatever.

Basically, Raef’s contract, if we are over the cap when it runs out, doesnt help us go over the cap.

But, we are in a position where we could let it run out which would drop us under the cap, if we also dont re-sign some of our other players, Travis, Blake, Diogu, and Frye are those players, as far as I know.

Now, if we went that route, and end up with cap space, then we can either sign someone in free agency, or make a lopsided trade where we take back more in salary than we send out, with the amount more than we send out equivalent to our cap space, e.g., if we have 9mil cap space, we could trade a player making 2 mil for a player making up to 11mil/year.

I, personally, think the Darius thing makes us more likely to use Raef’s contract in a trade, whether it is by letting it run out and using that space to make a lopsided trade, or just trading his contract before the deadline. Because of the money paid on Raef’s contract, I think that makes it more valuable to trade, than the cap space we would get from it, so, if the right deal is workable, I think it’s more likely that we trade Raef’s contract before the deadline than anything else.

Just my thoughts.

by TimG on Jan 27, 2009 6:47 PM PST reply actions  

Yeah, let it run out...

Right, but… let me try again -

BD (Before Darius), we were under the cap. We could sign anybody we wanted to in free agency (until a signing puts us over the cap…)

Now, in the AD world, we are going to be over the cap. That means we can’t sign anybody we want, other those that fit in the exceptions you mentioned.

The other exception I think we can now use if we just let RLECS’s contract expire, is that we can sign a player to “fill his shoes” (and some % of Raef’s contract). His retiring contract opens up another exception slot we can use to sign a big player.

(I mean, isn’t that why RLEC is valuable? So teams can artifically inflate their cap to sign more big contracts… So… why can’t we do that?)

Before, when we were under the cap, a RLEC excpetion wouldn’t be as valuable, because we were already under the cap, free to sign…

No?

by Visionary1 on Jan 27, 2009 7:11 PM PST up reply actions  

My understanding

is that we are slightly over the cap with Darius’ contract. If he was off…and without RLEC we were going to be far under the cap 18+mil depending on who we resigned. Now, we’re more like 9mil under the cap if we let RLEC expire (depending on who we resign). So depending on what we want, we might trade or might not. My numbers are hardly specific, if you need specifics there’s plenty of discussion in our archives, or you can look at storyteller’s site.

I do agree with the OP, I think Darius’ contract going back on the books increases the likelihood of a trade, though I think the idea of using the cap space next year to allow us to take on more than we give up (Dave explained it pretty well at one point) as being very elegant in KP’s style.

by Gelvalst on Jan 27, 2009 7:37 PM PST up reply actions  

we can still be way under the cap this summer

Here’s a breakdown I posted after Darius played number 10

In regards to your “fill his shoes” idea – there is no such thing like that in the CBA. Teams near or over the cap have various “exceptions” that allow them to sign players to fill out their rosters. None of these exceptions have anything to do with a previous player whose contract has run out. the most common exceptions are the mid level, biannual, and minimum salary exceptions, though there are others as well.

To answer your final question, the RLEC is potentially valuable to another team in several ways:
they could trade a player back to us whose deal goes on longer than this year, thereby shedding salary in future years. This may allow them to go under the cap this summer to sign a free agent, or it may allow them to go under the cap in a future year, now that they’ve ridded themselves of a longer contract. or it may not put them under the cap at all. that also could help them avoid paying luxury tax in future years. And in the case of RLEC, the contract is insured at 80% for the rest of the year, so essentially the new team is only paying 20 cents on the dollar for the rest of the year instead of the whole dollar they are paying now on whoever they might be trading back to us.

Usually when teams have a RLEC type situation, they are in a trade it or lose it type scenario – if they don’t deal the contract before the deadline, the contract expires, but they are still not under the cap in the summer, so they haven’t gained any advantage. The Blazers however are in a very rare and advantageous position of having several different options for RLEC. we can trade it now for a high-paid (and presumbably good) player, or we can let it expire ourselvss, at which point we can still be significantly under the cap and either look to sign a free agent this summer, or even more interestingly, can look to make a very unbalanced (salary wise) trade, where we take on a big contract (again, good player), for spare parts and/or draft picks. think marcus camby last summer.

hope this helps

Rule #1 of nitpicking is to get it right.

by douglast on Jan 27, 2009 7:39 PM PST up reply actions  

I think you are mixing this up with the injured/disabled player exception (below are some explanations from Larry Coon's site)

This exception allows a team which is over the cap to acquire a replacement for a player who will be out for the remainder of the (following) season. This exception can only be used to acquire exactly one player either as a free agent or in a trade. The maximum salary for the replacement player is 50% of the injured player’s salary, or the average league salary, whichever is less. If the disabled player comes back sooner than expected, then he may be activated immediately and the replacement player is not affected. However, if the disabled player comes back before the exception is used, then the exception is lost. You also don’t automatically get this exception, approval from the league is required after consulting with an independent doctor, which in the past was not always granted – e.g. as in when Grant Hill was injured while playing for the Magic :)

Problem in our situation: If a player is disabled between July 1 and November 30 which was the case with Raef, the team must acquire the replacement player within 45 days. This time has long passed! Even if the Blazers did apply for this exception which I’m not sure they did (also not for the year Greg was out), it would now be worthless.

As for the cap space in 2009, I think douglast has that right. We can get about 8 million under the cap if we would renounce the rights to Ike and Channing.

by Norsktroll on Jan 27, 2009 8:01 PM PST up reply actions  

How do you know so much?

I think you are KP in disguise

"When it comes to compliments, women are ravenous, bloodsucking monsters, always wanting more, more, more! And if you give it to 'em, you'll get plenty back in return." -- Homer

by bow4meow on Jan 27, 2009 9:21 PM PST up reply actions  

Yep

Even if that was an opportunity, that boat has sailed….

by Storyteller on Jan 28, 2009 9:46 AM PST up reply actions  

What if we do the following?

Trade RLEC for a player with big contract that expire in the summer of 2010. Sign extentions to Roy and LMA this summer. With Miles and RLEC’s replacement’s contract both off our cap in the summer of 2010, we will have alot of money to sign FA then, right?

by Sungari on Jan 27, 2009 7:40 PM PST reply actions  

see my link above

we can get about 8 millioin under in 2010 if Joel picks up his option that summer, or closer to 15 if he doesn’t. this can happen regardless of whether or not we trade RLEC for a contract that expires summer of 2010.

Rule #1 of nitpicking is to get it right.

by douglast on Jan 27, 2009 7:46 PM PST up reply actions  

Joel is here to stay, I hope.

I cannot see this team going very far without Joel, GO is not ready to play 40 minutes a night yet. I hope Joel is willing to backup GO.

by Sungari on Jan 27, 2009 7:55 PM PST up reply actions  

Value of cap-space

I’m not sure the RLEC is that valuable this year as there are going to be 8 other teams out there with significant cap space summer 2009. If any of our pieces are coveted, it will help a trade, but as a salary dump, nobody is going to go to the Blazer’s first.

This is one of the years where I think our best bet is to try to get something back from the contract. It’s valuable because it’s paid by insurance, and I don’t see much maneuvering summer of 2009 that will help us more than now. The FA market is not that good.

by boppitywop on Jan 28, 2009 6:03 AM PST reply actions  

8 teams?

OKC, Memphis and Portland look to have more-than-MLE cap space

Maybe Atlanta, Detroit, Miami, Minnesota – depending on what they do with free agents.

Who am I missing?

by Storyteller on Jan 28, 2009 9:52 AM PST up reply actions  

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