Richard Jefferson for RLEC+Outlaw? (Ambassadorial Edition)
First thing's first: All apologies to AnntheFan. It's not originally my idea though. This is from Frank Madden at Brew Hoop after Redd went down:
"So unless the Bucks think they can parlay Sessions or Villanueva into another good young player or two... it's Jefferson who should be the guy they're looking to move. As we've talked about in the fanposts, a team like Portland could be a good trading partner given they have expiring contracts (LaFrentz), a decent spare swingman (Travis Outlaw) and plenty of decent young players and future draft picks. Are they actually interested in him?"
Would we be interested?
10 months ago
T Darkstar
52 comments
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Comments
Yes... and here's why
1. It’s clear at this point that Webster is not going to have the “breakout season” KP was expecting from him. Even if he comes back from injury in March, it will be too little too late by the time he gets into the groove. Basically, Martell is in Oden-injury territory—just get ready for next season.
2. Outlaw is not consistent enough to rest our playoff hopes on. Is it the end of the world if we don’t make the playoffs this season? Heck no. But it would be a big disappointment if we don’t.
3. R-Jeff will have trade value downstream. We can’t get the PG we want right now, but maybe down the road R-Jeff will be a part of that package.
4. Veteran leadership.
5. BBIQ.
6. Another Arizona Wildcat.
7. Outlaw can learn how to ice fish in the Upper-Midwest.
8. A prototypical SF, with BBIQ and skills to mentor Batum offensively.
by Bust a Bucket on Jan 25, 2009 5:18 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
listing BBIQ twice
I find that very funny
"When it comes to compliments, women are ravenous, bloodsucking monsters, always wanting more, more, more! And if you give it to 'em, you'll get plenty back in return." -- Homer
by bow4meow on Jan 25, 2009 7:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I was thinking about listing it 3 times
but I thought that might be overkill…
by Bust a Bucket on Jan 25, 2009 7:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
actually
once was overkill…. have you seen that Simpson’s where the guy tells Dr Nick that the coroner is here to see him, and Dr Nick responds “I’m so sick of that guy.” Same feeling here about the BBIQ topic.
"When it comes to compliments, women are ravenous, bloodsucking monsters, always wanting more, more, more! And if you give it to 'em, you'll get plenty back in return." -- Homer
by bow4meow on Jan 25, 2009 7:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That's because you have a low BBIQ.
OH! Snap! Just kidding.
by Nick Van Excellent on Jan 25, 2009 7:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
-1
for mentioning BBIQ
-1 for mentioning it twice
-1 for thinking about mentioning it a third time.
Total: -3. Love, – Elgin
I get what I deserve. I deserve what I get. I have it so I deserve it. I deserve
it for I have it. I get what I deserve. What I deserve - what I deserve what
I get. I have it so I deserve. - Gentle Giant
by 22baylor on Jan 26, 2009 12:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure they would do it but I would
Re point 7,put maple surrip on your spam
by southern oregon on Jan 25, 2009 6:24 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Why waste good spam on fish?
hakkaa päälle !
by timg56 on Jan 26, 2009 12:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
doesn't seem likely
I don’t think RJeffs age and the 3 years left on his contract would make him attractive to the blazers..
plus it would take them throwing something small into the deal to make it work capwise.. like session or mbahamoute.. or we could change tlaw into Frye.. that deal would be a winner for everyone except playing time for forwards
"Slum dunk? You just go to the rim, and crush.. crush the ball in the rim."
- Nic Batum
by idoltime on Jan 25, 2009 6:45 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I've just got my heart set on gerald wallace...
how old is Jefferson? I thought for the longest that he couldn’t shoot from outside but he looked pretty good against us. does he play defense?
The Blazers as a whole are far more like my wife than like me in the sense of their physicality on defense.
-Dave
by chrischa on Jan 25, 2009 6:59 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Gerald Wallace.
One can only dream.
by Nick Van Excellent on Jan 25, 2009 7:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
mmhmmm
Roy Tribute
Treat people well because Karma can hit you at any second.
by Net Ranger on Jan 25, 2009 9:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Wallace is 26, Jefferson is 28. Both can/do play defense and are super-athletic.
by Norsktroll on Jan 26, 2009 3:03 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
both rank 1 and 2 in Concussions
I get what I deserve. I deserve what I get. I have it so I deserve it. I deserve
it for I have it. I get what I deserve. What I deserve - what I deserve what
I get. I have it so I deserve. - Gentle Giant
by 22baylor on Jan 26, 2009 12:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Richard Jefferson player Card
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1006
He is only 28 years old. still pretty young….
"shaq and zach randolph have the same trainer... "
best one liner i ever heard.
by bowdown on Jan 25, 2009 7:01 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
my cousin has a newborn they might be interested in
"shaq and zach randolph have the same trainer... "
best one liner i ever heard.
by bowdown on Jan 25, 2009 9:04 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
No
Its my faith in KP that leads me to believe he is not going to trade RLEC and/or any +player/picks for a guy who might make us marginally better in the short-term.
Jefferson is a good player, no doubt, but my impression after watching the Bucks game, was that the fire in his eyes is pretty much extinguished. It just didn’t seem, despite his production, that the will to fight, scratch and claw was really there.
"When it comes to compliments, women are ravenous, bloodsucking monsters, always wanting more, more, more! And if you give it to 'em, you'll get plenty back in return." -- Homer
by bow4meow on Jan 25, 2009 7:32 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I agree
I hope KP swings for the fences, and doesn’t just try to hit a double when he makes his big move. This wouldn’t be a homer.
by Bust a Bucket on Jan 25, 2009 7:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
to be fair
he is playing for Milwaukee that tends to do that to a person. Much like last night Caron Butler seemed a bit disjointed committing 9 tos but on a team like that it is hard to get up for a game that you know in all likelyhood you are going to lose.
If either one of them came onto this team I would expect a big turnaround. On the other hand I can see where if you are on a crap team, it would be admirable to bust your ass and work as hard as you can to help your team win even though you know there is a 50/50 shot or worse.
"Damn the Blazers. Damn them to hell. They are working the rest of the league like a speed bag." - Bill Simmons 6/26/08
by SpyderRyder on Jan 25, 2009 8:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
hold on ...
are you saying YES as you started the thread with, or NO in agreement with me…. ? C’mon, I didn’t even use the ol’ Jedi mind trick.
"When it comes to compliments, women are ravenous, bloodsucking monsters, always wanting more, more, more! And if you give it to 'em, you'll get plenty back in return." -- Homer
by bow4meow on Jan 25, 2009 7:39 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Any trade involving Outlaw gets an automatic YES from me
then I actually think about it. Your comments allowed me to think it through, and I changed over to a NO.
by Bust a Bucket on Jan 25, 2009 8:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
soon enough I'll bring you around on the Travis issue as well
"When it comes to compliments, women are ravenous, bloodsucking monsters, always wanting more, more, more! And if you give it to 'em, you'll get plenty back in return." -- Homer
by bow4meow on Jan 26, 2009 6:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
OK, so fill me in here
Just how is a guy like Richard Jefferson supposed to improve the Blazers?
Is he a great defender?
Is he a great scorer?
Is he a veteran floor leader?
Is he a veteran locker room leader?
Those are pretty high standards. Bow4meow said “the fire in his eyes is pretty much extinguished” and I believe he is absolutely correct. If he possesed any two of those qualities we might want him but I don’t believe he does. Maybe he could be a pretty good sixth man, but not the guy that fills in Roy’s shoes when we need it. That guy plays in Detroit and his name is Tayshaun Prince.
by oregonslee on Jan 25, 2009 8:10 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
NO to your first question, YES to questions 2-4.
He’s a great scorer (has consistently averaged 20 PPG as a secondary option to Vince Carter, Jason Kidd, now Redd and Bogut…
Veteran floor leader? Check.
Locker room guy? Check (he’s given more money to University of Arizona than any other alumni-athlete… he’s a very high character guy and tries to help the community). He’s very cerebral (unlike Travis… oops, had to get that stab in there… sorry)
by Bust a Bucket on Jan 25, 2009 8:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sure he's a nice man
He has 16.5 ppg and 5 rebounds career averages. Not much better than Travis on a good night.
by oregonslee on Jan 25, 2009 8:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No, he makes too much money and Buck fans can't stand him
We need to go after Caron Butler hard IMO. Wiz are going no where and have no CAP room. He would be an amazing fit, is cheaper, and a much better player than Jefferson.
by LOOSH on Jan 25, 2009 8:13 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
No defense and way too similair to Roy
This is what Lucas would do. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0aPkIE2qK0
by 123_G.O._RipCity on Jan 25, 2009 8:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That said we would totally take him and try to make it work
This is what Lucas would do. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0aPkIE2qK0
by 123_G.O._RipCity on Jan 25, 2009 8:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Guys who can help us win a championship in the next 3-5 years:
Small Forwards:
Tayshaun Prince
Ron Artest
Shane Battier
Point Guards:
Steve Nash
Tony Parker
Baron Davis
Wild Cards:
Gerald Wallace
David Lee
Andrei Kirilenko
Hedo Turkolu
Your Picks Please
by oregonslee on Jan 25, 2009 8:32 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
My picks
Prince, Battier (I wouldn’t give up much to get him), Steve Nash, Parker is not possible, and I would take a chance on Gerald Wallace, or AK47
This is what Lucas would do. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0aPkIE2qK0
by 123_G.O._RipCity on Jan 25, 2009 8:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ron Artest could help us lose a few too :)
For the small forward spot: Granger (not happening), Prince (highly unlikely), Wallace, AK47, Turkoglu.
by Norsktroll on Jan 26, 2009 3:06 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Baron Davis
is a runner and a gunner. Putting him on a team with the slowest pace in the league would be like not being able to get out of 1st gear on your way to work.
"Respect everyone, fear no one." -TP
by Arby on Jan 26, 2009 11:35 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Of the guys that might actually be available ...
… I love David Lee, but he’s not going to stick around for bench minutes when there are teams that will start him.
Wallace maybe. Battier, maybe (but I don’t see him as available). Problem here is that I am not anywhere closed to convinced that Webster and Batum are not up to the job of being our SF. Why give something up for a guy that very likely represents a marginal improvement over what you already have?
The rest are either not a realistic possibility, not a good fit or someone I would want under any circumstance.
hakkaa päälle !
by timg56 on Jan 26, 2009 12:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
those three
Prince, Battier and Nash want it bad. You are prolly right about Parker.
by oregonslee on Jan 25, 2009 8:58 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Wallace or Prince would be our dream fix at the SF position
"shaq and zach randolph have the same trainer... "
best one liner i ever heard.
by bowdown on Jan 25, 2009 9:06 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Small forwards are the most common thing on the market
Any one who is not an above average defender is not worth any thing to us
by southern oregon on Jan 25, 2009 9:20 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
After months of listening
and participating in trade banter I conclude anecdotally that Tayshaun Prince is the only player every Bedger can agree on. No one I can remember has made a negative comment about him and many have him as their number one target. Bedgers also seem to think he is within our means to acquire. Interestingly Tony Parker comes up often as an ideal player that people believe is impossible to acquire. Battier and Wallace also have plenty of fans here on the BE. Some express reservations about Wallace’s health but Battier gets lot of praise as a team player and defender. Nash gets a lot of discussion but Bedgers appear divided, not by the obvious quality of his play, but by his age and sore back. When it became known he was available there was a lot of favorable buzz about David Lee but that’s died down lately. Just about every hot player’s name gets bounced around periodically; guys like Jameer Nelson, Danny Grainger, Monta Ellis, Matt Barnes, Rudy Gay etc… Bedgers, it seems, always come back round to Prince. Is he really the one, and what would you give for him?
by oregonslee on Jan 25, 2009 9:46 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Why are we discussing people no one would ever give the Blazers?
Tayshaun Prince would be a great fit for the Blazers. Steve Nash and Tony Parker would take this team to a championship. Caron Butler and Ron Artest and AK47 would push this team to a new level. One issue: THESE GUYS ARE NOT AVAILABLE TO THE TRAIL BLAZERS!!! Look, I get it. This team has some holes to fill in the next few years, and KP might reach into his magical Wizard of Oz bag and pull something terrific out at any time. I don’t doubt him in the slightest bit. Unfortunately, no GM in their right mind would make a player of this caliber available to the Blazers. This is a team that, the way it stands now, will be competing for a championship in the next 3 years. No one outside of this organization is going to do anything to rapidly speed up this process, no matter how much pressure they’re under to unload a player or free up cap space. The discussions about players like Prince and Butler are absolutely ridiculous. For one second, we need to be realistic about the types of players this team is capable of acquiring.
Having said that, Jefferson IS a player that would be available and needs to be discussed. While he is not the greatest defender, he has been an accomplished scorer in this league for a long time., has played in big playoff games and will bring a calming influence to a young locker room come May and June. Jefferson can play inside or outside in a half court set, and can still excel in an up tempo offense. He’s only 28, and would absolutely be revitalized by a change in scenery. His worst play has come in the last year and a half while playing for a talentless New Jersey team and a Milwaukee squad that borders on D League caliber. If you were a young talented player, and you went from playing in conference championships and NBA finals with a HOF point guard to playing with Tyronn Lue and Malik Allen, you’d lose the fire in your eyes too. He would fit immediately into a role as another offensive option to take pressure off of Roy and Aldridge, and allow the younger players more time to develop their game. And 3 years from now when RJ is 31, 32 he’ll be a perfect complementary player to Roy, Aldridge and Oden.
I understand that this wouldn’t fix the issues at the backup 4, and would do even less to open the logjam at three. But again, in KP we trust, and he wouldn’t make a move like this without a move to counter this one. This trade seems like the most reasonable and likely move I’ve heard discussed, and I absolutely believe it needs to be considered
I want Greg Oden to tuck me in at night and tell me stories about the old times
by Juiceman76 on Jan 26, 2009 12:38 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
If players become free agents
how are they not available? Obviously the big name guys wont be available in trades, but when their contracts expire at the end of next year (as is the case with many big names), its definitely a possibility.
"Respect everyone, fear no one." -TP
by Arby on Jan 26, 2009 11:36 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
We're not discussing FAs
We’re talking about players available to the Blazers in a trade. I agree completely that free agency is a possibility for all of the names discussed, and obviously no player is unavailable during free agency. I’m simply saying that the players being discussed are not viable trade options, simply because there is not a GM in this league that could trade away a player like a Tayshaun Prince or a Caron Butler to a team like the Trail Blazers without extreme fallout and their job being on the line. A GM could justify the trade anyway they like (salary, getting younger, changing the culture), but the truth is, anyone who sends a player of Prince or Butler or Artest’s caliber (all guys who have All Star talent and are much more than journeymen) to a team like Portland (young, talented and only getting better) is only making the future for the Trail Blazers brighter and the future for their own franchise bleeker, all in one move. (How many side notes can I fit into one sentence? Ugh. Sorry about that.) Granted, superstars moving mid season is not an uncommon event, but unfortunately Elgin Baylor and Kevin McHale aren’t running teams anymore, and Chris Wallace has traded all his good players away. Actually on second thought, maybe we could send Memphis RLEC and Ike for Mayo and Gay. He might do it. Anyway my point is, no GM that wants to keep their job would trade a player like the aforementioned to a team like the Blazers.
I want Greg Oden to tuck me in at night and tell me stories about the old times
by Juiceman76 on Jan 26, 2009 1:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The players tossed around are
all available, except Tony Parker, through free agency or trade (or at least trade rumor). Not sure why you say they are not available to the Trail Blazers. Over the decades we’ve seen a lot of superstars move around. We’re not even talking about superstars but journeyman leaders who play defense. Isee your point though and I respect it.
by oregonslee on Jan 26, 2009 7:28 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Is the 1 or the 3 really the week link?
Most trades are based on the 1 or the 3 position when we speculate what Portland needs to do via trades or free agency. The biggest problem is that we still dont know if we have a future core player at either position. Is Webster going to comeback and finally live up to his expectations? Bayless is an absolute wild card in Portlands future, can he become a true point or will he morph into a proto-typical Arizona guard in the nba?
I want to here the rumors about a legit allstar a player that we dont think is available, Portland needs to make whatever deal they do help thin out the roster, Portland could very well have 2-3 players walk this summer and get nothing in return.
I hope Portland does a move that gets us a huge expiring contract for the summer of 2010 if that were to some how happen you know we would be very much in the conversation in the king James sweepstakes.
Anything less then a megastar would be just swapping out pieces on this loaded young team.
I try to help with everything," Fernandez said. "If the coach says go rebound, I go rebound. I work for the team.
""If I'm playing this game to get media and attention, I shouldn't be here," Aldridge said. "I'm here to play basketball, and do what I can do to help this team win."
by Dragonage on Jan 26, 2009 8:05 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I’ve been pleased with Jefferson’s defense this year. He’s not going to lock down LBJ or anything but his effort is always there and he’s a pro; that’s why Skiles likes him so much. Offensively he sometimes falls in love with his jumper and he’s gotten to the line a lot less this year, but he’s still an above-average athlete for the position.
by Frank Madden on Jan 26, 2009 10:56 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
What you describe makes him look like who we already have: Travis Outlaw :)
At a much lower price. But I think Jefferson is a step better than that.
by Norsktroll on Jan 26, 2009 11:12 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
As a sidenote, I saw Outlaw’s 82games splits suggest he’s much better at PF than SF…ie below average PER at SF plus bad defense there, vs. a positive differential at the PF spot. Does that mesh at all with what you guys see on the court, or is it bad accounting by 82games?
by Frank Madden on Jan 26, 2009 11:47 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He is good at PF except against very bruising ones
It helps in several aspects: He is quicker with his first step to drive by most guys on this position to drive to the rim or create separation for a good jumper (he too falls in love with it at times), they can’t blow by him on defense unlike quite a few small forwards, and it puts him closer to the boards so he doesn’t forget to rebound which he can do pretty well with his size and athleticism but sometimes just doesn’t focus on.
It’s hard to say what his better natural position is, he is a bit in between like Josh Smith or Gerald Wallace, but probably it’s still small forward.
by Norsktroll on Jan 26, 2009 12:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
that is a good reckoning by 82games
I get what I deserve. I deserve what I get. I have it so I deserve it. I deserve
it for I have it. I get what I deserve. What I deserve - what I deserve what
I get. I have it so I deserve. - Gentle Giant
by 22baylor on Jan 26, 2009 1:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Outlaw is better at the 4
Norsk is on point about the things that give him an advantage there. Trout is actually a pretty tremendous rebounder when he’s playing PF, because I think he realizes someone has to do it. Plus his proximity to the basket helps out a good deal. His biggest issue at the 3 is that he hasn’t quite figured out how to use his athleticism to his advantage all the time, so he tends to float on the perimeter offensively. It helps that his shot has improved by about 1000% in the last 3 years, but he’s never going to complete that leap from the player he is to the player he can be (and I think he will be), until he figures out how to put the whole thing together. To be honest, I’m not a big Travis guy, but I feel like there’s a ton to work with and he’s a couple steps away. I also agree with Norsk as he’s probably a better natural 3, but he’s just more efficient as a 4.
I want Greg Oden to tuck me in at night and tell me stories about the old times
by Juiceman76 on Jan 26, 2009 2:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not a good trade for the future
Big miles on Jefferson’s odometer. As a player I’ve always liked him, but despite his age, I gotta think the injuries are going to start accumulating now.
We can do better if we are offering RLEC and Outlaw. – Elgin
I get what I deserve. I deserve what I get. I have it so I deserve it. I deserve
it for I have it. I get what I deserve. What I deserve - what I deserve what
I get. I have it so I deserve. - Gentle Giant
by 22baylor on Jan 26, 2009 12:39 PM PST reply actions 0 recs





























