Keepers
by Dave on Jan 22, 2009 1:16 AM PST
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PrintHaving reached the halfway mark of the season and having a short break, we're going to take a couple days to go over some big picture items. Today we're going to pose a question concerning the future of the Blazers and which players you most want to be a part of that future. It works like this...
I'm going to ask you to pick six "Keepers" from our roster. Only six, and that's firm. No hemming and hawing. You can use any criteria you want but it would be cool if you explained why these guys are on your "Keeper" list and whether that is based off of, or flies in the face of, the season they've had so far. Of course the Blazers will probably end up keeping more than six of their current players, but you never know. Defining your Keepers doesn't mean that you'd get rid of everybody else nonchalantly. It just means that these six in particular are the heart of your vision for the team's future.
I'll start the ball rolling with mine.
1. Brandon Roy
This should be obvious as he's probably on the list of all but the most fringe thinkers. (I'd love to hear explanations, though, of why Brandon shouldn't be on this list if anyone really feels that way.) His scoring continues to rise. His feel for the game continues to develop. He's as good at setting people up and contributing in other ways as ever. His only concern is injuries, which seem to mount up every season. Nonetheless I don't see any way you'd want to get rid of him.
2. Lamarcus Aldridge
Lamarcus' game also continues to develop. He's still up and down a little but his scoring average is starting to solidify. I believe we'll eventually make even more of a move to feature him on offense. You want more driving, free throws, defense, and defensive rebounds but he's still got potential for all of those things.
3. Greg Oden
Even in limited minutes of limited brilliance his impact on the game has been decent this season. Teams have to account for him when he's on the floor. He'll only demand more attention as his game develops. Even if he continues to struggle offensively for a while that frees things up for everyone else. He's already a good rebounder and he's learning how to defend the interior without fouling. More energy and consistency would be nice but there's no way I'd bail on him or even think of it.
4. Rudy Fernandez
This guy is going to be no worse than fourth on most people's lists. I love his facilitating and the way he spreads the court more than his overall offense, which needs some polish. He's impressive for a rookie though. Defense is also a work in progress. But this guy has the potential to be a great 6th man, a piece of a contender's puzzle, and an insurance policy for Brandon Roy.
5. Nicolas Batum
I love the way Nicolas moves on the court. I like his defensive commitment. I like his ability to rebound. He needs a lot more reps on offense but you can see the potential there. Ask me which Portland rookie outside of Oden has the best chance of actually being a long-term starter for the team and I'm going to tell you Batum. I don't think he's necessarily the starter this year if Martell comes back, but that combination of athleticism, defense, slashing ability, and hopefully eventually a consistent distance shot will make him a nasty complement to the other starters.
6. Joel Przybilla
I'm mostly trying not to base these off of just this half-season but Joel's play and the freedom it's given us to work through Oden's growing pains seem indispensible right now. We always needed to keep another big man besides the starters and in the past I leaned towards one of the forwards maybe who could play some center in a pinch. Joel's play has changed that. He's the back-up we need for Oden now and the emergency option in case Oden goes down during a critical playoff run. Plus he's got the temperament to fill those roles.
So there's my six. Who are yours? Share in the comments.
--Dave (blazersub@yahoo.com)
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ok
1) Roy. No brainer.
2) Greg Oden. Showing signs of developing. Our best hope for a 2nd true star.
3) Rudy Fernandez. Having a terrific rookie season. Will be a very useful bench scorer for this team or perhaps even more valuable as a trade piece.
4) Jerryd Bayless. He’s really convinced me this last week. He has heart and he has skill. He has a long way to go but I am vastly more bullish on him than I was last week.
5) LaMarcus Aldridge. I’ve given up hope that he will be what I want him to be, but still a useful player who can give you a big game every now and then.
6) Nicolas Batum. Can become a great defender.
Boomshakalaka
by the way
the only reason Joel’s not on there is that if we are going to be a title team, we need Oden to be dominant and a 38-40 mpg guy. I still think Joel is our MVP-besides Brandon thus far in the season.
Boomshakalaka
You give up too easily
Wait until LMA gets some bulk and can bang with the big boys. I’m not sure what you want him to be, but he’s already a 20-8-1 guy with not much help to speak of in the post.
I like whatever metric makes a Blazer look better.
The reason that there's "not much help to speak of in the post" is LaMarcus Aldridge's own ...
fault. Time and time again, Aldridge has shown himself to be soft as tissue paper on both offense and defense — as well as inefficent from the field, no matter his allegedly smooth shooting stroke — thus, Instead of comparing Aldridge to the irrefutably superior Chris Bosh, Juwan Howard is the man who y’all should look at as the most similar to the overhyped Texan.
Honestly, though, there’s no point in having this discussion anymore. If folks want to foolishly jam their empty heads into the sand, then so be it. That’s their problem and not mine.
dumb comment, AK
We’ve never had a low post threat alongside LMA. That’s what he said, and that’s not LMA’s fault.
If you want to point out flaws in LMA’s game, that’s all to the good, but if you are going to say of someone else that they “foolishly jam their empty heads into the sand”, you might at least take the time to read and interact with what they said. Otherwise, it is you that looks foolish and empty-headed, with your head jammed somewhere….
I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.
Yeah, my main issue here isn't with LaMarcus Aldridge the person or people who ...
are fans of him. In all reality, Aldridge is probably a pretty nice dude — while the folks who cheer for him are also great people — but stylistically he’s a downright frustrating guy to watch play the game of basketball.
It’s just that, well, it boggles my mind whenever somebody claims that Aldridge is an efficient mid-range jumper shooter, for that’s simply not the case. As it is, Aldridge is shooting an eFG% of 42.1% on jump shots this season — which makes up 66% of his field-goal attempts — and that’s way lower than Dirk Nowitzki (49.7), Rasheed Wallace (49.4), Pau Gasol (47.7), Amare Stoudemire (46.4), and Chris Bosh’s (44.1) numbers.
Those are all accomplished NBA vets
I’m not saying he’s phenomenal right now. He needs to bulk up and have more of an inside presence. Having someone who has an effect on the low post such as Oden would help too. Regardless, this guy is a work in progress, that much is for sure. But to give up on him at this point in his career when he’s showing that he does have game is a little silly. If you think being patient means I have my head jammed in the sand, that only goes to show how short sighted your point of view is.
I like whatever metric makes a Blazer look better.
Interesting Question
Highest Percentage of Jumpers Hit
Qualifications:
Big Men (PF’s and C’s)
Under 28 years old (LMA is 23)
Rank. Name (Age) = Percentage
1. Amare Stoudemire (26) = .446
2. Chris Bosh (24) = .439
3. Brandon Bass (23) = .435
4. Charlie Villanueva (24) = .434
5. Al Horford (22) = .429
6. LaMarcus Aldridge (23) = .426
7. Marc Gasol (24) = .411
8. Paul Millsap (23) = .409
End of List (Everyone else is under .400)
also...
Chris Bosh at LMA’s age (.414)
Amare Stoudemire at LMA’s age (.426)
Pau Gasol at LMA’s age (.394)
David West last year (.434)
nice work buddy
Phenomenal way to tease out the statistics and give a more acurate basis of comparison.
I like whatever metric makes a Blazer look better.
Dimishing returns :-(
Up .31 then up .11, at this pace…
.384
.415.
.426
.430
.431
.432
.432
Not that .432 is terrible for jump shots so long at LA goes .568 on inside shots and takes just as many of em!
right
among big men for whom jump shots make up a majority of their FG attempts, Aldridge is one of the worst shooters out there. Pretty much everyone who is thought of as a quality big man either spends more time in the paint and draws more fouls than LMA or is more successful shooting the ball.
LMA’s biggest issues are on defense and defensive boards though.
Boomshakalaka
Are any of those guys in their 3rd year?
"Respect everyone, fear no one." -TP
by Arby on Jan 22, 2009 11:16 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
touche
"...we have so many experts who think that you have to play defense, you have to rebound, you have to be a possession coach, you have to execute. I just laugh. Explosive offense is not as intimidating as dominant defense. But it is scary when you don't know how to stop someone." - George Karl, Nuggets coach
AK just thinks he's more intelligent than most.
He could be. But he hides it well.
hakkaa päälle !
Really tired of this comment
Don’t mean to pile on, but I get really tired of this particular meme that you and jksnake continue to repeat.
1) LMA is not inefficient: his .481 shooting percentage makes him better than Nowitzki and West and a host of other PFs in the league. He is more efficient that the Blazers as a team. In fact, he is one of the most efficient PFs in the league among those who are perimeter oriented. This .481 percentage is artificially depressed by his rough start in November; he is over .490 since then.
2) No, he is not a big, inside bruiser at this point in his career. But if he was, he would be a less effective fit with Oden and Pryz.
3) In spite of working next to two of the top ten most efficient rebounders in the league, he has a PER of 18.82 which puts him 13th in the league.
4) Prior to this season, the Blazers had no offensive presence at the Center position, how is that LMA’s fault?
Sometimes, I think you guys just like to complain. The grass is always greener; the glass is always half full.
by upper left corner on Jan 22, 2009 7:30 AM PST up reply actions
FG% is irrelevant
use TS%. For a guy who doesn’t shoot 3s or get to the line, .481 is not good.
Boomshakalaka
So snake indorses LMA
developing a 3pt shot…duly noted
Larry (the new Johnnie Cochran) Miller: "If we get screwed, we're gonna sue"
by 92wastheyear on Jan 22, 2009 8:54 AM PST up reply actions
I endorse him doing 1 or more of the following (in order of desireability)
- taking 2/3 of his shots in the paint (currently 2/3 of his shots are jumpers)
- learning to draw fouls
- getting traded
- shooting less
- developing a 3 pt shot (if he’s going to shoot deep jumpers, I want them to be for 3)
Boomshakalaka
He drew some fouls last night
In fact, he explicitly and intentionally drew one that got him two free throws. I saw that play and thought, “Snake will be pleased!” And you are more down on him after that game than before….
Small steps, maybe, but what did he shoot last night, seven free throws? If he does that regularly, that will be progress.
I think you raise valid criticisms, but I think you are giving them more emphasis than is due. He is basically a second year player, he didn’t play much his rookie season at all.
I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.
he did draw some fouls last night, which was nice
but when he started hoisting 20 footers over Wally and comically missing boxouts on Varejao, I lost it. Then he started airballing 20 footers with tons of time on the shot clock down the stretch, and I gave up.
Boomshakalaka
How many of those crucial FT did he make?
And the thing about LMA is HE KNOWS HE NEEDS TO GO INSIDE. If he doesn’t do it now, then when?
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on Jan 22, 2009 9:43 AM PST up reply actions
The agenda for LMA's improvement
laid out above was “learn to draw fouls”.
If he draws the fouls and gets to the FT line, in general he’s going to make a good percentage.
I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.
And get a higher TS%
I view TS% with suspicion, myself. Why does a guy have to be good at “Fool the ref” in order to be a good player? I don’t disagree I’d like to see more rebounding and post play, but in reality the .481 shooting percentage isn’t bad at all.
"...we have so many experts who think that you have to play defense, you have to rebound, you have to be a possession coach, you have to execute. I just laugh. Explosive offense is not as intimidating as dominant defense. But it is scary when you don't know how to stop someone." - George Karl, Nuggets coach
Do you even know what TS% is?
It corrects standard FG, taking into account 3P and FT. It’s a much better measure of offensive efficiency than is FG or EFG%.
Yes, I do know what TS% is
I feel that just because someone is good at flopping and drawing foul shots (which inflate your TS%) doesn’t make them a good player, or even one that is fun to watch.
"...we have so many experts who think that you have to play defense, you have to rebound, you have to be a possession coach, you have to execute. I just laugh. Explosive offense is not as intimidating as dominant defense. But it is scary when you don't know how to stop someone." - George Karl, Nuggets coach
On offense, the main thing that LaMarcus Aldridge needs to do is cut back ...
on shooting mid-range jumpers and, in turn, increase the amount of times that he drives to the basket.
On defense, Aldridge needs to buck up and box out his man — which is a basic fundamental — while crashing the glass with tenacity. I couldn’t care less about Aldridge’s supposedly decent man-to-man perimeter defense, too, for it’s how he guards fellow interior players — as well as what he brings to the table with weakside help defense — that matters the most on this end of the court.
Yeah, he either needs to develop a three point shot or go and drive inside
Preferably both :)
That 17-20 foot shot looks nice but is one of the most ineffective shots in basketball.
I'm of the mindset that LaMarcus Aldridge should rarely practice ...
shooting three-pointers, for it’d probably further curb his development. Instead, Aldridge needs to alter his face to the basket game by driving to the basket more rather than settle for mid-range jumpers — as well as improve upon all facets of his back to the basket game — which’d most likely boost his overall shooting efficiency.
If Aldridge starts crazily chucking three-point shots, then he’ll go from being Juwan Howard to Antawn Jamison. I wouldn’t call that progress.
Jamison has a terrific post-up game.
Or he did when he played for Golden State.
by MiledAnimal on Jan 22, 2009 10:45 AM PST up reply actions
During Antawn Jamison's last season with the Golden State ...
Warriors, only 28% of his field-goal attempts were inside shots.
http://82games.com/02GSW11A.HTM
Jamison drew a foul on just 10.6% of his field-goal attempts, too, which indicates that he wasn’t overly fond of contract in the paint.
Almost half his attempts
occurred during the first ten seconds of the shot clock. Sounds like the GS run-and-gun offense might have had something to do with him not pounding the ball in down low very much. Also, Jamison is a tweener so GS played him some at SF, where he’d be less likely to get into the paint than at PF.
My point was simply that Jamison has the moves to get his shot off against anyone in the post, regardless of how often he uses them.
by MiledAnimal on Jan 22, 2009 11:58 AM PST up reply actions
Yeah
I really, really would like to see him, just once or twice a game, pump fake that jump shot and just drive it to the hole. Most PFs can’t keep with him on that, so they’d have to back off, and he’d get more open looks, and draw a few fouls in the process as well.
I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.
Some get the film of that
and make LMA watch it 500 times.
I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.
Write it on the board LaMarcus
I will not forget about the up-fake.
I will not forget about the up-fake.
I will not etc.
- Elgin
If you smile at me I will understand, because that is something everybody everywhere does in the same language. - Crosby/Stills/Kantner
oh and he also needs to learn to box out
Varejao beat him for about 3 O boards last night and Wally beat him for 2 I think.
Boomshakalaka
Varejao is excusable
because he’s a high energy rebound guy, but Wally isn’t excusable. I think one of those was a long, wild carom tho.
"...we have so many experts who think that you have to play defense, you have to rebound, you have to be a possession coach, you have to execute. I just laugh. Explosive offense is not as intimidating as dominant defense. But it is scary when you don't know how to stop someone." - George Karl, Nuggets coach
I'm going to have to look it up ...
… but I just saw something about a week ago listing Aldridge as one of the top ten most effective scorers in the league. It was a statisitcal based ranking, not a subjective one.
hakkaa päälle !
All right, here's my response.
1. LaMarcus Aldridge is shooting a worse TS% than both Dirk Nowitzki and David West. On a side note, field-goal percentage is an antiquated statistic.
2. Come on, that’s bogus. A dynamic high/low power forward — particularly one who’s got a quick first step from the elbow who can drive to the basket and frequently draw fouls, as well as occasionally post up on the mid block and do some damage in the paint — could easily mesh with pure low-post threats like Greg Oden and Joel Przybilla.
3a. I adore Player Efficiency Rating; however, it’s a metric that doesn’t account for defense, which is one of Aldridge’s numerous weaknesses. Similarly, his outstanding on-court/off-court +/- is inflated due to his backups at power forward (i.e., Travis Outlaw, Channing Frye, & Ike Diogu) playing like utter crap this season.
3b. Also, Aldridge’s inferior rebound rate is his own fault rather than that of Oden — since Anderson Varejao and Ben Wallace are an example of how a frontline duo can effectively crash the boards without getting in each other’s way — so that argument doesn’t fly here.
4. Obviously, I agree that isn’t his fault.
Well, that’s that.
And yet Nate said in a recent article
that LA is the key to the team’s success. I’m not saying your criticisms aren’t without merit, but what is he seeing in LA that you are not?
LA isn’t perfect, but he is getting better each season. That’s good enough for now. If the player he is now is all he becomes, your view of him as the wrong power forward for this team will become more popular. I just don’t think he deserves that criticism right now.
by MiledAnimal on Jan 22, 2009 10:56 AM PST up reply actions
"LA isn't perfect, but he is getting better each season."
Nope, LaMarcus Aldridge has actually regressed this season.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/aldrila01.html
In comparison to last season, Aldridge has worse shooting efficiency, rebounding, shot blocking, and defensive numbers. For what it’s worth, I give more credence to those stats than some flimsy praise Nate McMillan gave him.
I don't
Last season, Nate moved him inside, and he got better shooting numbers in there, for obvious reasons, and probably better offensive rebounding as well. This year, Nate has him playing outside, because of Greg’s presence and Joel’s improvement in the offensive game. A small drop-off is not surprising.
Last year, he blocked more shots because of so much time at center anchoring the defense. Somebody else is doing that this year.
Stats are useful for telling part of the story, but they never tell the whole story.
I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.
Right. AK puts a lot of faith in stats
and has too short-term a view regarding LA’s performance. This is not just a young team, it’s a team in flux that is still in the process of identifying its core (hence this fanpost) and has players who are still learning and growing and adjusting to the NBA.
by MiledAnimal on Jan 22, 2009 11:42 AM PST up reply actions
LaMarcus Aldridge's rebounding prowess had dipped at both positions ...
this season, as is indicated by the following stats. Again, stats tell the story.
http://www.82games.com/0809/08POR10.HTM#bypos
http://www.82games.com/0708/07POR10C.HTM
Aldridge, moreover, allows his man to rebound at a way more proficient rate when he’s playing center — which is one of many reasons that I dislike him playing out of position — thus, that more than negates his slight increase in production there.
OK, AK
LMA has played very little center since Greg came back, so looking at PF, what do we see?
Last year, he was +0.7 vs opponent power forwards, this year he’s +0.8. That is on reduced numbers, the impact of Greg and Joel vacuuming up every board in sight. Despite the fact that there are fewer boards to go around for PFs, LMA is beating his opponent by a higher rate, so percentage wise, there’s a real improvement.
LMA is drawing more fouls than last year. Who would have thought it?
His FT attempts have declined from 5.0 to 4.9 per 48, so less than 0.1 per game, since he doesn’t play 48 mpg. Do you know how many FTA 0.1 per game is over 40 games. Four. LMA is obviously doing worse at getting to the FT line, he’s got four less FTA than last year. But of course, he’s playing outside more, as I said previously.
There’s been a big dropoff in blocks, from 1.5 to 1.3 (per 48). That’s about a 0.15 dropoff per 36, which is a lot closer to his mpg. That’s six blocks less this season over 40 games.
Stats do tell a story. To say LMA’s rebounding prowess dipped at PF this year is completely unfounded.
I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.
I ain't a stat-hound
How would his numbers look if ya looked past the erratic, slumpy, abnormally bad opening month for LMA?
His last two months, numbers wise, hell even rebounding wise, haven’t been bad at all.
Like you, Jscot, I see the same faults with LMA, but (as you think, I think) they will most dissolve over time or won’t need to be solved… such as the rebounding.
His late game jumpers made me go NOOOOOO, but he still gets the young guy pass from me, and he doesn’t take a lot of bad shots. He needed to recognize the mismatch and strike, not go the easy way out.
Take away the first month (and I’m ok with someone arguing that isn’t fair) and he’s a better rebounder, scorer, everything, compared to last season. Without lookin at rebounding percentages and other stats, that’s what the numbers show me, which backs up what I’ve been seeing from him lately.
Mortimer
I agree, of course
I’ve been agreeing with you all over this thread all of a sudden. Fortunately, I found something down below to disagree with you on, or people would think I’m Tom Penn to your KP.
Hey, if you are KP, I must be pretty smart, huh?
I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.
Okay, it was a big strong of me to use the word "regressed" here.
Yet, we can definitely agree that LaMarcus Aldridge hasn’t improved enough this season, which is a must in the whole scheme of things.
As it is, shooting efficieny, rebouding, and defense are all areas that Aldridge must step up his game; otherwise, he won’t reach the high expectations that some of y’all have for him.
I think we can all agree on that
that was pretty much what I took away from that recent article about Nate and Aldridge as well. LA wants to be an All-Star, but it’s clear to Nate, and to us, that he needs to add a couple more dimensions first.
If he stays more or less the same player that he is now, I think he’ll eventually be a fine third wheel behind Roy and Oden. The difficulty this season is that neither Greg or LA seem to be ready to be the second option night in and night out. To be a contender, we’ll need one of these guys to step it up. To dominate? We’ll need them both.
Hey!
Now we’re talking.
I’m not sure I would say he “hasn’t improved enough” without having been inside meetings with him and the coaches where it was discussed what specifically they wanted him to be working on.
I would definitely say I haven’t seen as much improvement as I would have liked to see in the areas I would have liked to see it, though.
At this point, LMA does not look like a #2 man in a Big Three. He looks like he well might develop into a #3 man. I can live with that. I’d like to see more, though. It seems to me the tools are there to be dominant.
I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.
How do you get regression out of those numbers?
The only area where there is a noticeable decline is rebounds per game and that could be a result of Oden and Pryzbilla grabbing a large percentage of available rebounds.
hakkaa päälle !
I don't see much of a regression either
There is a slight drop in TS% but is a change from .522 to .519 significant? I can’t see why it would be. His assist% and TO% have both improved.
He is allowing more points per 100 possessions, but the corresponding increase in points that he is scoring more than makes up that issue.
This is a BS argument and you know better
His TS% is down .003. You are going to call that regression? His PER is up. His stats have improved every month this season.
At least make honest arguments.
by upper left corner on Jan 23, 2009 8:39 AM PST up reply actions
I'm an LMA defender
but Nate is more than likely harping on LMA for the exact criticisms that are being discussed.
I think LMA CAN do well. I think it’s up to him to realize how to get there. His allergy to the post frustrates me like crazy.
Greg Oden, where posters happen.
Look, many of your criticisms are valid. What I find lacking is.....
……perspective. Aldridge is a third year player who did not play much his first season. His body, his skills, and his understanding of how to play the game effectively are still developing.
Giving up on him at this point, as jksnake suggests, is simply ridiculous. He has incredible physical gifts. As I said there are not to many 6’11" guys with his length, speed, and skill set.
What I find incredibly annoying is people’s apparent inability to look ahead and project what kind of players these guys are going to become in a few years. It is the same argument that I keep having with you about Bayless. The physical skills of these players are on display. The work ethic is on display. The competitive attitude is on display.
Players don’t show-up, on day one, ready to dominate. You have to evaluate whether or not the physical gifts are there, you have to look at whether or not the attitude and practice habits are there, and then you have to project ahead.
Now Outlaw is a case of someone who has amazing physical talents, but who after six years in the league continues to show a lack of focus and understanding of how to win. I don’t think Outlaw is ever going to play good defense on a regular basis. His shot selection will continue to be suspect, and he will continue to make amazing plays on a regular basis. You either decide that the up side is worth it, or not.
Giving up on players like Aldridge and Bayless strikes me as incredibly short-sighted.
by upper left corner on Jan 23, 2009 8:29 AM PST up reply actions
The other issue
Even if Aldridge NEVER improved, he’s still a damn good third option. How many other teams have a third option who averages 17/6.5 and shoots a good %?
(Off the top of my head I can think of maybe Orlando and San Antonio?)
AK, kind Sir,
I enjoy your comments, even if I often can anticipate your points, as you do have a couple of favorites. But this insulting is beneath you. Stay kind my friend.
Perfect practice makes perfect.
by Ojala John on Jan 22, 2009 7:45 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Overhyped ? ? ?
Sounds like a bitterman comment from an
ex-Sonic fan.
A. 6’11" 240lb, long, fast running athletic PF’s don’t grow on trees.
B. Smooth has the Top of the reach jumper that’s good to 20’ and
can’t be blocked.
C. A good one on one defender, but very good at wing/perimeter
trapping. (IE, getting the ball out of CP3’s hands, trapping DHarris)
D. Smooth is a good off the ball rejector, who moves with the driver to
the bucket.
E. One of the fastest PF in the league up the court, so he gets some
easy buckets on the fast break. Obviously, the Blazers need to run
more to get easy buckets.
F. Good post player. Has the rolling right handed hook down pat and
the turn to the baseline fadeaway as the alternate. With continued
strength training and maturity he will become more forceful on the block.
G. Good passer out of the post and above average in general, as Smooth
is a team player and unselfish. Five assists against Milwaukee, several
high low to GO. With time the Smooth to GO hi-low will become a staple.
H. Very good offensive rebounder. GO & Joel take some of the D rebounding
on with space created to hit the O boards for LaMarcus. Defensive rebounding
and overall need to improve, but strength/maturity will help.
I. Great work ethic. In the weight room and in practice, Smooth is noted
to be one of the hardest workers.
J. Team leader and all around good guy. Likes playing with his teammates
and is willing to score or work the ball around according to game plan
or situation. Very coachable with a lot of one on one film sessions and
shooting work.
Smooth has some improvements to make, but overhyped is not the case.
I think all of the All-Star talk is early, as I don’t think he’s close yet. He needs
to get to 18-9-2-3-2 and help this team get to the playoffs. Spend the off season
getting stonger and more assertive, then jump on the GO wagon to more easy
opportunities. It will come, as he’s only in his third year (1 healthy season at Texas).
PATIENCE !!!
COINCAST SUCKS !!!!
It's GO time !
Speed is a thing of beauty
I love to see him at the front of the fast break for the dunk. I don’t see any other 6 11 guys out there like him. …Which makes me think he would be even better speeding to the rim off the dribble.
I've given up hope he'll be a decent on D and on the D-boards
and given up hope he’ll develop toughness instead of staying on the perimeter.
Boomshakalaka
That's too bad
Some day you’ll come around. Other players need to develope around him, that’s for sure. To say that he will be an intimdating inside presence before all is said and done is a little naiive. To say that he can be the perfect compliment to a dominant center, that is something that can be realistically achieved. He will have his role once roles get more established. He needs bulk, experience and time with the guys who he will be playing with, but it will happen.
I like whatever metric makes a Blazer look better.
How do you "give up" on a third year player? At age 23?
Ridiculous, given his physical gifts.
by upper left corner on Jan 23, 2009 8:41 AM PST up reply actions
When will this 'bulk' you speak of come?
And he’s more like a 17, 6.5, 2 guy who doesn’t play much defense if we’re being real. Where do you guys keep getting your stats or are you just making them up?
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on Jan 22, 2009 9:46 AM PST up reply actions
I pretty much agree with you
Not sure about Oden yet. He’s hella slow, but I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt that it’s rust / inexperience mostly because I really want for him to be good and for us to have that dominant big man we’ve never really had (since I’ve been alive)
I’m glad I’m not the only one who sees LMA for what he really is….right now at least. He could be so much more :(
Batum is low risk, high-reward.
Rudy has lots of tools.
Bayless is a sob with some skills and it looks like tons of desire and competitveness.
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on Jan 22, 2009 7:12 AM PST up reply actions
Good list
I’d include all those guys, but I’d flip LMA and Rudy at the 3/5 positions
Jerryd Bayless = Marlo Stanfield
- Early stage Marlo at this point, but Bayless is the emotionless killer new to the game. He will take over, and there will be causalties – it’s just a matter of time.
by blazeraddict on Jan 22, 2009 1:10 PM PST up reply actions
Roy – All-Star
Oden – Potential
LMA – Dynamic
Joel – Leader
Rudy – Foreign
Nic – Also Foreign
"I saw him in the face"
by RoodiePhirnandizz on Jan 22, 2009 1:32 AM PST reply actions
Sergio's foreign
"...we have so many experts who think that you have to play defense, you have to rebound, you have to be a possession coach, you have to execute. I just laugh. Explosive offense is not as intimidating as dominant defense. But it is scary when you don't know how to stop someone." - George Karl, Nuggets coach
but you can only have six.
I believe his point is that he filled the foreign quota.
Greg Oden, where posters happen.
1. Roy (TALENT/Age) – Everything you want in a leader.
2. Oden (TALENT/AGE) – As talented as big men get, and the potential to be a perennial all star at center.
3. Aldridge (TALENT/Age) – Perfect compliment for Oden, with the potential to be an all star.
4. Fernandez (Talent/Age/Contract) – Ideal 6th man, with a great BBIQ, shot and athleticism.
5. Batum (Talent/Age/Contract) – Anyone remember a player this good defensively this early?
This is where it gets dicey, but I’m going with…
6. Bayless (Talent/Age/Contract) – Everything considered, this is where the word “keeper” has to come into play. I’m getting a potentially lethal compliment to Roy at PG, especially offensively, and I only have to commit 8 million dollars to him over the next 4-5 years. With him, you have your lineup of the future complete, with 6th man. It should be noted, my next 2 players in order were… 7. Martell Webster, 8. Joel Przybilla. After that is where the drop off happens.
by as11osu on Jan 22, 2009 1:39 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
+1
My only nitpicky change would be Nic ahead of Rudy, mainly because (as you alluded to) Nic has a chance to be a front line wing stopper, and in the NBA that is a rare commodity. Also with you on Martell and Joel being the cut off point of the guys who I sincerely think will be part of a championship core.
Jerryd Bayless = Marlo Stanfield
- Early stage Marlo at this point, but Bayless is the emotionless killer new to the game. He will take over, and there will be causalties – it’s just a matter of time.
by blazeraddict on Jan 22, 2009 10:03 PM PST up reply actions
Dave, the only choice I definatey disagree on is keeping Batum over Outlaw
I really love his offensive production, his pure drama, more than Batum’s defensive value. And I expect them both to improve. They both have fantastic athletcism and poteitial, and I think they are both keepers.
1 – Brandon
2 – Greg
3 – Nic – He seems to be developing into exactly what we need.
4 – Jerryd – We really need a PG; and he’s been playing well.
5 – LMA
6 – Rudy
I don’t necessarily think that LMA and Rudy are keepers, however. They both have a ton of trade value and circumstances that make it favorable to trade them. In the case of Rudy, he plays at the same position as Brandon and that Martell will be available to back up the 2/3. For LMA, there are a number of very good power fowards in the ’09 FA class. This is assuming we can get good value in return for either (or both) of them.
Nic and Bayless could both be included in a trade for an upgrade PG or SF, respectively.
We really need to consolidate talent. We especially need an upgrade at PG—I still think there’s a pretty good chance of Bayless panning out; but, it’s too risky to leave it in his hands alone. That is to say, I don’t think either Blake or Sergio is a long term solution.
In any case, my further rankings are:
7 – Martell – Still young and still has a shot at passing Batum.
8 – Joel – Very good now, but probably peaking.
9- Travis – Just not what we need.
Roy- Can’t this just be a given?
Oden- It’s hard to find a big man who plays on both sides of the court.
Aldridge- He’s much easier to replace than Oden.
Batum- He’s exactly what the Blazers want in a SF. San Antonio would be proud. (defend-shoot threes-repeat)
Bayless- Honestly, I think he would have more fans if he was a white guy from Spain.
Rudy- He will put points on your face.
by Nick Van Excellent on Jan 22, 2009 2:32 AM PST reply actions
If I'm choosing
between Jerryd and Sergio, I choose Jerryd hands down. But I found your racial comment offensive. Bayless has proven nothing, and Sergio has given lots of people reason to love his game. There’s no reason to make it out as an ethnic thing at all — it’s a love for a particular style of game.
I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.
Also
Bayless is more popular than Sergio by a margin of 2:1 on this site, so your comment makes no sense.
I would instantly jump on the Bayless bandwagon if he even looked like passing was an option of his.
You mean like
on that nice drive where he found LaMarcus for a dunk and one last night? Yeah, it would be nice if passing was one of his options….
You build a straw man and it’s easy for us to knock it down. Passing is not a strength, but he’s obviously aware of that and working on it. Overblown criticism loses its force.
I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.
Oh very nice
He had the passing efficiency of Outlaw for that game. Hype it up! The criticism is not overblown, passing is his third option after shooting and lowering his head and hoping to get fouled.
Criticism isn't overblown
but your statement that “if he even looked like passing was an option of his” was.
You’ve refuted it already by saying it’s his “third option”. You should have said that in the first place. Then you would sound like someone who is giving an actual assessment rather than someone who just wants to bash someone and doesn’t worry about facts.
He didn’t look like he was “hoping to get fouled” yesterday. He looked like someone who saw an opening and took it to the hoop, with the legitimate ability to put it in the hoop.
He’s a rookie who’s hardly played and still obviously has glaring weaknesses in his game. No disagreement. It’s the over the top statements about those weaknesses that are unproductive.
I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.
Over the top is fun
Everyone’s doing it! The man does have an uncanny ability to get fouled though. He was fouled off the ball against last night to get to the FT line. It’s like defeners see him and just want to hack him, regardless of if he has the ball or not.
Why do you want him to pass when he's making layups and/or going to the line?
What you want him to pass it to Travis for a 18 foot fadeaway with ten left on the clock? or to our 6’11" “power foward” for a 17 footer? Or to our center who can’t score unless he’s under the basket?
??
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on Jan 22, 2009 9:50 AM PST up reply actions
lol
for once I agree with LJ…
"...we have so many experts who think that you have to play defense, you have to rebound, you have to be a possession coach, you have to execute. I just laugh. Explosive offense is not as intimidating as dominant defense. But it is scary when you don't know how to stop someone." - George Karl, Nuggets coach
Welcome aboard
I have watch all of the last few games and while he is not a great passer he has tried and been successful a few times passing out of the drive. He seems to be improving and letting the game flow come to him more. I know he has very few assists but a few of his kick outs have also been missed. Also one point I want to make is that the Offense has to take some of the blame. We often times don’t get a lot of movement except when running rudy around screens. I mean are go to plays are roy iso, and Lma mid range shot. well and don’t forget the outlaw to dribbles in and wild shot. So now When have the bayless drive and get a lay in or foul. It has been just as effective as anything else.
Wait wait, Sergio has given lots of people reason to love his game..??
Wait, what???
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on Jan 22, 2009 9:47 AM PST up reply actions
YEAH!
0 turnovers in 50 minutes. Keep hyping how bad he is at protecting the ball. He also made Mo Williams turn the ball over 3 times in a half with his defense, it was terrible to see!
agreed
Sergio did play well. Can people like bayless and Sergio both? I see bayless as a better fit for our style but I like Sergio and what he brings. He has been playing well and looking more aggressive lately. If we played more to his strengths I think he would be a lot more liked! Sadly I don’t see that happening and I don’t blame him for not being happy about his playing time. I hope if he does end up getting moved its to an uptempo team and he succeeds. (well as long as everyone doesn’t bring up how great he is doing and how we should have never let him go)
Sergio looked great last night
hopefully he is not discouraged with his lack of second-half minutes last night – but matchups were not in his favor last night, at all.
I think Blake’s absence will be less of a problem as we go. Although we will continue to miss Blake very much until he comes back – he still brings better 3-point shooting than either of the other two guys. – Elgin
If you smile at me I will understand, because that is something everybody everywhere does in the same language. - Crosby/Stills/Kantner
I'm not cringing when Sergio shoots 3s anymore
"...we have so many experts who think that you have to play defense, you have to rebound, you have to be a possession coach, you have to execute. I just laugh. Explosive offense is not as intimidating as dominant defense. But it is scary when you don't know how to stop someone." - George Karl, Nuggets coach
because you've given up?
his 3pt% has dropped from last season.
He must be missing when I look away
because I feel like he’s shooting better.
"...we have so many experts who think that you have to play defense, you have to rebound, you have to be a possession coach, you have to execute. I just laugh. Explosive offense is not as intimidating as dominant defense. But it is scary when you don't know how to stop someone." - George Karl, Nuggets coach
eh.
I’m not a Sergio fanboy by any means, but he takes a lot of desperation threes late in the shot clock. That affects his average.
by Cablinasian on Jan 22, 2009 12:02 PM PST up reply actions
Good point
I think SergioFTW did an analysis about this a while back and said Sergio is over 40% if you don’t count those. Something like that.
"...we have so many experts who think that you have to play defense, you have to rebound, you have to be a possession coach, you have to execute. I just laugh. Explosive offense is not as intimidating as dominant defense. But it is scary when you don't know how to stop someone." - George Karl, Nuggets coach
it might've been as11osu...
he takes an abnormally high number of halfcourt heaves and desperation threes… I wonder what his real average is at this point.
by Cablinasian on Jan 22, 2009 12:03 PM PST up reply actions
It was that as11osu guy
or whatever his name is. It was a good fanpost.
I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.
LOL
Cab beat me to the punch again. I’m going to have to throw Cab in that cabinet of mine.
I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.
Those heaves should never count
I don’t know what the NBA is thinking, counting them as field goal attempts. The NCAA doesn’t.
"...we have so many experts who think that you have to play defense, you have to rebound, you have to be a possession coach, you have to execute. I just laugh. Explosive offense is not as intimidating as dominant defense. But it is scary when you don't know how to stop someone." - George Karl, Nuggets coach
Heh
Then everyone would wanna shoot them. They count for you if you somehow make it but not against you? Sweet!
That's how shots work when you're fouled in the act
Why not desperation heaves?
"...we have so many experts who think that you have to play defense, you have to rebound, you have to be a possession coach, you have to execute. I just laugh. Explosive offense is not as intimidating as dominant defense. But it is scary when you don't know how to stop someone." - George Karl, Nuggets coach
I like Bayless and Sergio both
Bayless – Starter
Sergio – 2nd unit spark
"...we have so many experts who think that you have to play defense, you have to rebound, you have to be a possession coach, you have to execute. I just laugh. Explosive offense is not as intimidating as dominant defense. But it is scary when you don't know how to stop someone." - George Karl, Nuggets coach
And Blake
the savvy veteran who refuses to back down to the young punks.
In other words: the status quo.
"...we have so many experts who think that you have to play defense, you have to rebound, you have to be a possession coach, you have to execute. I just laugh. Explosive offense is not as intimidating as dominant defense. But it is scary when you don't know how to stop someone." - George Karl, Nuggets coach
Racial comment ?
Foreigner ??? Isn’t he from the Canary Islands
and a Spanish national ?
It's GO time !
I find your comment about my racial comment offensive. Just kidding.
Here is the list of guards who have won the MVP award multiple times.
Michael Jordan
Magic Johnson
Steve Nash
I like Nash, but if he wasn’t Caucasian I highly doubt he would be on that list. All I’m saying is that if Bayless was white his popularity would be through the roof. People would be complaining day and night that Nate doesn’t give him more playing time. Half the Portland fans would already have him penciled into the hall of fame.
That’s just my humble opinion.
by Nick Van Excellent on Jan 22, 2009 5:33 PM PST up reply actions
Goddam Canucks get all the breaks!
Actually, Nash was legit, although he’s long in the tooth these days and that’s easy to forget…
"Now with a non-provocative footer!"
Legit?
No way.
His numbers were inflated because of D’Antoni’s system. Even so I could see giving Nash the MVP one year. Two years in a row is just ridiculous.
by Nick Van Excellent on Jan 22, 2009 8:45 PM PST up reply actions
Your opinion is wrong :-)
Phoenix won a ton of regular season games and unlike most PGs, Nash was clearly the reason why. He shot 50/40/90, something people just don’t do, he led the league in assists by a wide margin, and sadly, defense can help your chances at getting an MVP, but not hurt them.
Do I think he deserved 2? Probably not, but nobody else make that great of a case those years either. Even with identical stats/wins this year, Nash would still be 6th place in the MVP voting just because of the stronger class.
Also as I said before, look at the BE votes. Bayless beats Sergio by a 2:1 margin, people ARE complaining that he’s not getting playing time. Go to a Blazer game, see who gets the biggest cheer off the bench when they go in.
Mr. Van Excellent
I can’t believe you really hold the belief that some players are more popular just because they are white!
It is clear to me that results, entertainment value(style), and personality are the major determinants of a player’s popularity. There may still be a small percentage of folks who can’t see past skin color but I suspect they are not basketball fans. The comment is offensive, not so much because it is racial, but more because it is simply ignorant and says more about you than about the rest of us fans.
I would bet that most folks like Bayless better than Sergio because he has killer instincts, he knows how to get to the rim and finish, and he is more fun to watch most of the time—except when he is getting a ticky-tack foul or when Sergio finds Rudy for the dunk.
by oldguyoldfan on Jan 23, 2009 5:09 PM PST up reply actions
the next 3
So, the question should probably be, “after the 3 players that everybody is going to choose, who are the other 3 you want to keep on this roster?”
4- Ruuuuuuuuudy – Soon to challenge Manu for top foreign dude who annoys everybody except Blazer fans because they don’t know why their team can’t stop him and he keeps winning championships.
5- Steve Blake – What?!?!?!?! I’m sticking with steady and reliable play at my pg spot over clearing everything for the next young gun.
6- Batuuuuuuuuuum – I can think of plenty of championship comparisons for the young frenchman. Horry, Pippen… well, I think that’s all you need, because that pretty much covers all the championships since 1991.
I don't have 6 keepers, only 3
1. Roy – Of course.
2. Oden – I believe in him
3. Przybilla – Best backup C in the league, he’s a difference maker on the court.
Players who I would probably want to stick around
4. Batum – Got great instincts, but I’m afraid of him being underutilized offensively in the future.
5. Rudy – Great shooter coming off the bench, every team needs a player like him.
6. Blake – Another shooter, could possibly be a great role player coming off the bench. I’m afraid he might be the type of player who needs great teammates around him to be effective.
Players who I would be looking to move in the future
7. LMA – Hopefully KP is sending out feelers so I don’t have to hear people whine about his eventual disappearance, softness, and lack of rebounding in the playoffs. Good time for LMA to increase his trade value taking more shots than he deserves as a featured player.
8. Outlaw – Portland’s own space cadet. He spaces out on the court.
Players who are unknown for the future
9. Webster – Classic one dimensional player
10. Bayless – Fit and PG questions. Same question.
BINGO, BANGO, BONGO
Travis is in year six, we kinda know what we've got there
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on Jan 22, 2009 7:18 AM PST up reply actions
Yeah, that's a good point.
Now that I once again look at the list, it’s better to be in the fourth group than the third group.
I agree with that placement.
Frye, Shav, Outlaw, Rudy, LA, & Bayless
I’m only going by looks. Dave’s list is all about trade-value. We got to trade those guys because they have such high trade value.
I'm a Blazers fan and If you ban me from your blog, I'll sue you!
Please don't feed the trolls.
God forgives, tominhawaii doesn't.
u don't know what you are talking about
Webster > Outlaw on the All-Looks Blazer team by a million miles… Outlaw is funny looking cute at best… Webster looks like a taller, built Denzel Washington.
Is he even still on the team?
I'm a Blazers fan and If you ban me from your blog, I'll sue you!
Please don't feed the trolls.
God forgives, tominhawaii doesn't.
True
I’ll switch him out with LA because LA has a big nose.
I'm a Blazers fan and If you ban me from your blog, I'll sue you!
Please don't feed the trolls.
God forgives, tominhawaii doesn't.
fair enough
for what it is worth.. my mom agree with all of your choices except thinks Batum deserves a place over Shav… can’t please everyone I guess..
Is Sophia yer mom??
Larry (the new Johnnie Cochran) Miller: "If we get screwed, we're gonna sue"
by 92wastheyear on Jan 22, 2009 9:00 AM PST up reply actions
6 Best looking blazers:
Martell
Shav
LaFrentz
Rudy
Frye
Sergio (with a hat on)
Activate Shavlik Randolph
My wife thinks Sergio looks like Beetlejuice
I'm a Blazers fan and If you ban me from your blog, I'll sue you!
Please don't feed the trolls.
God forgives, tominhawaii doesn't.
he has a certain cuteness
to him. just a crazy receding hairline and imperfect teeth that give him a less polished look.
Activate Shavlik Randolph
it's not a race thing
at all. I think josh smith and CP3 are cute as a button, and Martell is #1 on my blazer list baby. Roy gets best derrier if that makes you happy. And yeah, I know, Frye is the whitest blazer.
Activate Shavlik Randolph
Yeah.
The world would be a better place if we just got rid of all the white people.
Let’s start in LA. Mortimer thinks it’s too crowded.
hakkaa päälle !
You've just made Portland a complete ghost town
I get what I deserve. I deserve what I get. I have it so I deserve it. I deserve
it for I have it. I get what I deserve. What I deserve - what I deserve what
I get. I have it so I deserve. - Gentle Giant
What part of Portland you live in?
Portland’s actually got a pretty diverse population I believe. No figurs to back that up though!
You should read the papers.
Just last Sunday the Oregonian had a front page article about Portland’s enthic makeup.
Reader’s Digest version – it’s pretty white.
hakkaa päälle !
Yuh
Portland might be really liberal and open to other cultures and lifestyles, but it is EXTREMELY white.
And that’s putting it lightly.
It ain’t current, but here is Wiki’s information on Portland’s demos:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portland,_Oregon#Demographics
I’m not saying it’s a bad thing or whatever, just that it’s a fact— Portland is overwhelmingly whiteys.
Mortimer
When I moved to Portland 21 years ago,
I lfell in love with the city , but I felt something was just a bit weird.
It took me several months to figure it out (after all I’d spent a fair amount of time living in Minnesota), but I finally realized it was how white Portland was. Growing up in DC and living places like Atlanta, Augusta, Charleston, Orlando, Syracuse, etc I was used to seeing black faces.
hakkaa päälle !
It seems like the majority of people are debating Joel or Blake (better known) and Bayless (better potential).. after reading Dave’s picks, like many here I picked the same 6 except exchanging Przy for B-Rex. But I’ve changed my mind.
my six in order: Roy, Oden, Rudy, LMA, Batum, Przy
I feel that all of these guys (with LMA at the bottom) show exceptional “IQ” in their play. Bayless is right there if someone said.. aw sure go ahead and take a 7th for free.. but even though I like his play and attitude and what he brings to this team, at this point I think he is a more replaceable player. Most of the reason that I am down with this set of Keepers is because only players at that elite status would be better than these guys given their defined skill set, their ability, and their court awareness. It just feels that Bayless hasn’t shown yet that he is more valuable than what Przy is able to do given ANY time on the court. I never figured before Przy as more than a crutch for Oden to lean on but this could could seriously go down as the greatest back-up center of all time.
PGs with outstanding athleticism, relentless work ethic, scoring power, and aggressive defense are easy to replace?
I have always thought that PGs and centers are the rarest and most difficult to replace.
by upper left corner on Jan 22, 2009 7:41 AM PST up reply actions
it's true
If I knew he really played PG then he would probably make the jump.. I think PGs are the considered the rarest to replace because of their importance as a floor leader like a QB. But Roy and Rudy play floor leader more than Bayless out there.. Bayless still acts primarily like a weapon.. not a leader..
his relentless work ethic definitely makes it tough.. if it wasn’t for LMA having the same thing, Przy being the perfect role player, and Batum & Rudy working their euromojo, Bayless would be there…
Huh, well, my list contains just two individuals.
1. Greg Oden
2. Brandon Roy
Everyone else is replaceable in one way or another.
Pshhh
Neither one of those guys have a crab dribble.
I'm a Blazers fan and If you ban me from your blog, I'll sue you!
Please don't feed the trolls.
God forgives, tominhawaii doesn't.
My keepers in order of future potential
- Brandon Roy: The one and only guy to build the team around. Has the personality and skills on and off the court
- Greg Oden: Second best future big man in the league behind Dwight Howard who just has more athleticism. Teams don’t give up great centers, so you usually can’t trade for one. You have to find him yourself.
LaMarcus Aldridge: Highly versatile big. I hope he develops into a dominant athletic player a la Amare or more likely into a great shooter from the key somewhere between Dirk and Bosh. Would I trade him for Amare should he become available? Probably - Nicolas Batum: The next Tayshaun Prince, the next Scottie Pippen if everything works out
- Jerryd Bayless: The guard of the future next to Brandon. Brings innate athleticism to the table much older and bigger guys don’t. Derrick Rose light. Since we can’t get the real one, I’m happy with this one. Great future.
- Rudy Fernandez: The next Kevin Martin.
The rest: All nice guys, but easier to far easier to replace. Joel is up there, but he is too old and offensively challenged to build the team around. Should Oden not pan out they would need to find another guy.
Of note: Our (shooting) guard position is really stacked. Others not so much.
For the future
This is not my list for this year or next year, necessarily, but for hopefully 6-7 years or more of title contention.
1. Brandon. Because he’s Brandon Roy.
2. Greg. Because he’s going to be the most dominant center in the league within two years (sorry, Dwight), and probably a future MVP. I could come up with other reasons, but I think that pretty much covers it.
3. LaMarcus. Because his offensive game is a perfect complement to what Greg’s will be by next year, and he’s still improving. Because I expect his help defense to improve, and I expect us to use some three-guard offense, so we’ll need that additional shot-blocker to help out. Because I expect his rebounding and interior D to improve as he continues to gain strength. Because I expect as Greg progresses and owns the board and blocks more shots that LMA will get out and run the break more, which is going to be devastating.
4. Jerryd. Because when we got him, I said that the Big Three just became the Big Four, and the future ruler of the world would hate to be proven wrong. Because he is going to be a quality perimeter defender. Because he will be nearly as good as Blake at hitting the 3 in 3 years’ time. Because he pushes the ball, which creates openings before the D is set, and is willing and able to punish teams when those openings appear — he is able to be a one-man fast break. Because he is willing to work and work and work to learn whatever he needs to learn to be an effective player and help the team win. Because he makes his free throws, even as a rookie. Because even as a young rookie, he performs pretty well in pressure situations. Because he didn’t freak out even when a switch would put him on LeBron, and played good position defense, giving up nothing easy. Because he’s going to be the perfect complement to Brandon once he’s consistent on his 3s.
5. Rudy. Because he is probably an all-star talent. Because he might be part of the Big Five or Six. Because he’s going to be a phenomenal 3 point threat (he’s already dangerous) but isn’t going to be one-dimensional. Because we really, really don’t have a clue just how good this guy is going to be, but we know it’s going to be very nice. Because he could start at SG on at least 20 teams in the league, probably more. Because he’s going to force us to play 3 guards sometimes, which should lead to more up-tempo offense. Because he’s entertaining to watch. Because his D is going to improve. Because I want Nate to tear his hair out figuring out how to play Brandon and Rudy each more than 30 mpg.
6. This one’s painful, because we don’t know about Martell, really, Travis is still improving (surprising, for 6th year, but it is clearly true), and we’ve got some great vets in Steve and Joel. So I might regret this, but two years from now, I think it’s Nic. He needs a consistent 3 pointer. I can’t believe our shooting coach won’t get that out of him within a couple years. His D and rebounding will only get better, likewise his passing. So I’ll go with Nic.
I don’t want to lose any of the others. But when Greg is playing 35 mpg or more, Joel is less important, and that will easily happen within two years. When Jerryd is playing 35 mpg, Steve is less important, and Sergio won’t be happy. Martell I can’t count on, and Travis is inconsistent and his rebounding and defense alternately thrill and disappoint me, with more emphasis on “disappoint”. Channing needs to play somewhere where he’ll get PT, and it isn’t happening here. I’d love to keep him as an 11-12th man, but it won’t happen, and he hasn’t showed that he can do the job in spot minutes.
The six I listed give us a top 4-5 player (at least) at SG and C, a top 10 player at PF (in two years), a top 12 PG, a top 15 SF, and a perennial 6th man of year candidate. In two years, they’ll be title contenders, and if they stay together and healthy, they will be for years to come, even if we lose everyone else on the roster and have to replace them with old guys who just want to go along for the championship ride.
I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.
by jscot on Jan 22, 2009 5:25 AM PST reply actions 3 recs
You chose my six and made my points.
Greg is three years away from being mvp.
LaMarcus is the perfect compliment. In three years he’ll be a regular all star and first team D kinda guy. Ten assists a game (all to Greg) will earn him national exposure. He’ll be the new King of the triple double.
Brandon because he’s Brandon.
Jerryd because we’ll be a defense first squad and he compliments Brandon the way LaMarcus compliments Greg.
Nic because three years into the league rookies really step up their defense. Nic three years better is a marvelous thought.
That’s five starters who will grow together the way our Olympic team did when they finally were given sufficient time to gel. These guys will form a defensive unit to rival the best of all time.
Sorry Steve, Joel and Martell. I love you all, but minutes will become more difficult to find, and your import will diminish. But thanks for getting us to greatness. You’re all three beloved but replaceable.
Rudy. With Greg up to 30+ minutes a night, a great back up Center isn’t so important. Rudy will get minutes when Jerryd, Brandon and Nic rest, and his energy and range are sixth man of the year stuff.
Perfect practice makes perfect.
I hope Steve and Joel never leave
But they aren’t the key to a championship.
Martell might be key to a championship team, what we lose on D (with Nic) we might make up with offense and 3s.
But it isn’t as much of a sure thing as Nic, IMO. I could easily understand if someone preferred Martell to Nic, though. I’m very high on Martell, too.
I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.
Agreed with all points, jscot
But especially with regard to keeping Steve and Joel. We need players with their toughness (yes, I said it, they’re the toughest guys on the team – Bayless may have the ‘face’ but so far I haven’t seen him stand up to anyone).
If we extend it to 9 (or go with the assumed big 3 + who are your 6), then I’d place the following after BRoy, LA, GO) in order:
- Nic – potential, passion and a sky-high BBIQ
- Jerryd – see Nic
- Rudy – see Nic & Jerryd
- Joel – best backup 5 in the NBA bar none
- Steve – a good veteran presence with a dagger 3
- Martell – I like what I saw prior to his injury – if he can return at that level and continue to improve, he’ll be scary good.
The thing that sucks is players I like a lot (Trout, Frye…even Sergio) are left on the outside. :-(
Bayless did fine against
KG…don’t forget
Larry (the new Johnnie Cochran) Miller: "If we get screwed, we're gonna sue"
by 92wastheyear on Jan 22, 2009 9:20 AM PST up reply actions
Yeah, I had that thought too
I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.
w0rd
That’s what I was gonna say.
Roy, Oden, LMA, Rudy, Bayless, Batum. Though I have been a Martell Webster fan, but Batum’s innate BBIQ (yeah I brought it up), already decent ballhandling, will-improve-but-already-not-bad jumper, his transition game, his defense… all point to him becoming a perfect COMPLEMENTARY player. I have no doubt that Martell could always outscore Batum, but as this season has shown offense is not our problem. Defense is. Batum will continue to get even better at defense, and his sort of all-round fill in the blanks sort of game will fit PERFECTLY with everyone else.
One fun thing we’ll see in the future (aside from the “Oh… well, I guess I am an idiot, Oden is really, really, good” realizations from lozers), is people waking up a few years later and realizing that Batum is more than just decent defense for a young guy, and that the Blazers semi-secretly got the perfect role playing SF. To us, it’ll be obvious, but to the outside world, it’ll be a surprise because they’ll be staring at Roy/LMA/Oden all day, and Bayless’ dunks, and Rudy’s pizzazz.
It won’t be fair to those who have that realization, but life is unfair. They will deal with it.
I think people forget Rudy is 23, even though we always mention it. That’s a normal rookie age, even with most good players leaving school early. That means, he’s just getting started. Obviously he’s hardly done any strength training, he’ll get better conditioned, even more savvy, build a rep with the refs, and he’ll be purty good.
And I won’t discount Bayless and LMA being whatever they want to be, because they are extremely hard workers. And smart. That’ll get them far. Take away the slump LMA opened the season with, and his stats and game made a less-important-but-similar jump to what Roy had last season. I see the same problems others see, but I am more confident it’ll mostly go away with experience (though I would never say he’ll be a dominant rebounder, we’re a dominant rebounding team, and he will get better).
Bayless has swagger, man strength at a boy’s age, and a drive to drive and a drive to improve. He COULD be our PG of the future, or he could want to have his own team to shine on. I dunno. I just know he is very talented and I ain’t giving up someone as young, athletic, and hard working as him. He COULD be The One, and I know I’m not eager to try to draft another one. So, save us some draft selections, and just become our PG of the Future for sure, okay, Bayless? Geez.
I love Joel, Blake, wouldn’t mind Outlaw being a Blazer forever (instant unguardable offense off the bench ain’t bad), am a fan of Martell, but the top 6 are people to build around— and they’re already half a damn team! Who has 6 people to build around?
NO ONE.
Once again, we are very lucky to be Blazer fans.
Mortimer
Mort, I agree with almost everything
except this:
It won’t be fair to those who have that realization, but life is unfair. They will deal with it.
Not the L@kers. They won’t deal with it. They will fold, cry, and blow up their team in desperation. Kobe will demand a trade, and start calling Kupchak names for not buying the Rudy pick, and not buying the pick that we traded to get Batum. There will be weeping and wailing and lamentations and gnashing of teeth (that’s Bayless chewing on the remains of Kobe’s leg) in LaLa land.
And I shall be able to restrain myself from mourning over their downfall.
I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.
Best play ever
Kobe makes a move, Bayless slips, so Bayless grabs Kobe’s leg and gnaws on it. The refs miss the call because Oden is getting ready to jump, so all the eyes are looking to see if he commits a foul.
After the play Kobe starts crying, Bayless looks at the ref with chunks of Kobe leg in his teeth, looks confused, and shrugs.
by Zaig on Jan 22, 2009 12:39 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Don't give up on 3M !
I was at the Fan Fest sitting third row. Martell looked
in fantastic shape and was running the floor like a greyhound.
He ran, moved without the ball, rebounded and defended in
the first half and the went off the 2nd half. He’s too good a
shooter, has got a great athletic build and has shown imrovement
over the last couple of years. Batuuuum has some excellent
qualities, but too thin/weak to body up to the strong 3’s. I think
he will be an excellent player, who will start against certain match ups, but
3M has the tools to fit perfectly with GO, Smooth and our low post
game !
It's GO time !
If I can only choose six
I can’t choose Martell. Like I said, I think it is very possible he’ll be better than Batum. But with Batum, I know I’m getting a guy who in two years will be a great defender, good passer, good shooter, decent rebounder.
I don’t know I’m getting that with Martell. The only thing I know I’m getting is a very good shooter. I think he’s going to be a lot more, but I don’t know it.
But then, I wasn’t at the Fan Fest….
I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.
Don't get me wrong
I really like Martell, and have always been a fan of what Martell could become, even when everyone hated him his second year (what I call his “lost season”).
I’d love it if Martell lived up to his draft position and became our long term SF starter; I think a part of me thinks he wants to, and could be, a leading scorer for a team and he won’t have that in Portland. Same for Bayless.
Batum’s athleticism, length, and great instincts on both sides of the ball give him the edge for the FUTURE, even though I really, really want Martell back and excelling. I do think Martell will be able to score effortlessly, and he’d be even better when we are running more— but lotsa shots probably won’t be here for him, and Batum is more suited to an offense-when-we-need-it type role.
Both are SO YOUNG though, and their careers could go a million different ways. I know I love Martell’s incredible work ethic, how much he wants and NEEDS to be good, how he works with coaches and other players in the summer, and how he improved his defense immensely over those two years.
Batum is skinny, but he can get stronger, and Tayshaun Prince can handle beefier guys and I bet Batum could too. But you’re right, Martell has a great, beefy frame, and I remember him being the only guy who could beef up to Lebron last season.
Martell’s shooting and hopefully still improving defense will go nicely, but I really like Batum’s slashing, ballhandling (he’s a much better ballhandler than Martell was last year), passing (good post entry passer already, and pretty aware for a kid), and his propensity to take it inside and dunk it.
I wanna keep ’em both!
Mortimer
Let's, forget Dave !
Who does he think he is, the ruler of the World,
I mean of BE !
That’s what I saw last year, the ability to body up
to powerful stars, ie LeBron. Stop them, No, but
definate improvement. Bought into being a stopper.
That’s BIG !
It's GO time !
Wohoo, Mortimer picked my keepers over Dave's. Go Morti
by Norsktroll on Jan 22, 2009 2:01 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Morty is God, so I will limit the second guessing...
The future is Roy and LMA and Oden (defects and all) and Batum and Rex.
That leaves one. I reckon the answer is Mr. Pryz, because the next level is gonna take solid play in the paint and Oden hasn’t shown he’s The Man yet…
I love Marty and like Rudy, but both of those are replaceable pieces… Blake is solid and underrated, but if Rex’s game develops like I think it will, ya only need one PG.
There’s still a missing piece, and that’s a David Lee replica of some sort.
Did I mention that the next level is gonna require getting busy in the paint?
"Now with a non-provocative footer!"
How much more of LMA must we watch before we all agree his trade value is higher than his production will ever be?
- Greg Oden: has made a believer out of me. I don’t think he will ever be a #1 scoring option, but when he avoids foul problems and stays on the court, he dictates the pace and style of the game.
#2)Brandon Roy: not nearly as good as everyone in Portland thinks he is, but, he is definitely a very good, likable player. But, he is a 2nd tier star (not Kobe, lEbron or Wade). Only chance Portland has of ever winning a title with BRoy as their primary option is if GO becomes Garnett-like in intensity on defense and games never have to be won on the offensive end.
#3)Rudy Fernandez: Dan Majerle? Nick Anderson (before the missed free throws)? He is a legit NBA 2-Guard and a definite baller.
#4)Joel Przybilla: best backup center in the NBA. Keep him until his contract expires.
#5)Jerryd Bayless: 6th man coming off the bench, locking down on PGs like Lindsey Hunter.
#6)Sergio: obviously not the 6th best player on the team, but his relationship with Rudy and occasional offensive explosions make him a solid backup PG.
TRADE BAIT
LMA: he will never be a dominant PF, so, the question is would you like to keep him as a role player, or trade him ASAP to a clueless GM? Why does Caron Butler’s name rarely come up on this board?
Nicolas Batum: I am of the opinion that Portland should try and win sooner rather than later. I really LOVE Batum. But as of right now his trade value is higher than his on-court production, so……
Irrelevant
Steve Blake: works his ass off, very likable, but……no team will EVER win a championship with him as a starting PG
Trout: the fact that he plays over Rudy in crunch time is unconscionable to me.
Martell: give up
Diogu: honestly, has looked pretty good the little bit I’ve seen. I have no idea why he has never gotten much PT in GS, Indiana or Portland.
Channing Frye: SUCKS
by John Park Williams on Jan 22, 2009 5:27 AM PST reply actions
To answer your question
10-15 years.
I'm a Blazers fan and If you ban me from your blog, I'll sue you!
Please don't feed the trolls.
God forgives, tominhawaii doesn't.
by tominhawaii on Jan 22, 2009 5:45 AM PST up reply actions 7 recs
No team will win a title with Blake?
I’ll try and be nice, but this is a ridiculous comment.
Who was the PG for the Lakers for their 3 titles?
Who was the PG for the Bulls for their six?
Boston’s PG last year?
Houston’s PG in 95-96?
Blake is better than any of those PGs, and he has still somehow managed to improve each year even though a lot of us thought he hit his peak 2 years ago.
...
Exactly. This year Blake has improved way more than he has in the past and that’s a super good thing. He is consistent (only thing I can think Blake did this year was miss his free throws vs the Clippers, which I sadly was at and was miserable to watch) and does everything this team needs in a PG.
But don’t get me wrong… if we could ever get someone like Chris Paul I’d go for it but I hate when people overlook Blake.
by brandonmitchell on Jan 22, 2009 9:12 AM PST up reply actions
Yeah
If you’ve got a Big Three, maybe even a Big Two, you can win a title with a PG like Blake. Dude is tough and a winner. I said that a year and a half ago when we signed him, and I didn’t think he’d improve as much as he has.
I think Bayless will be the starter on our championship teams. But that isn’t because Blake isn’t good enough, but because I think Jerryd will be even better.
I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.
We'll see
As I’ve said before. I’m a fan of fit over raw talent, unless the gap is pretty massive. Two years ago I wasn’t big on Blake, but he kept improving in areas he shouldn’t have been able too. Maybe Bayless can do the same, maybe not.
Well, the worst that happens
is Blake leads us to a championship instead of Bayless. I can live with that.
I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.
Well, actually
I’m convinced that the worst that can happen is Blake leads us to two championships.
I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.
But I admit I'm an optimist
I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.
During the Houston Rockets championship runs in 1994 and 1995, it had a two-headed monster ...
at point guard, Kenny Smith and Sam Cassell, who were both solid role players. If Kevin Pritchard can somehow swing a trade for Kirk Hinrich, then the duo of him and the underrated Steve Blake — who’s a better fit alongside Brandon Roy than either Jerryd Bayless or Sergio Rodriguez — could mirror that of vintage Smith and Cassell.
Role players
Two headed monster might be a bit much for those two, but they did both know their rolls and they fit in perfectly with the rest of the team. Similar to Blake now.
There are times I swear you have naked pictures ...
… of Hinrich on your wall.
(Maybe you can work a trade with timbo for some of his pic’s of David Lee.)
hakkaa päälle !
Agreed
And I’ll build on your point— who was the last “best PG in the game” to win a championship? Arguably, Isiah Thomas. That was like 80 years ago.
Teams built around a strong post presence and a great wing player who CAN be a playmaker (and is often better at it than the actual PG) have proven to be the way to get that ring. Having the awesomest PG in the land almost never wins the title. It won’t hurt, but it’s been proven that a good role player at PG and stars at the other positions is more than enough to win a title.
Of course, it all depends on the situation.
We want our PG defense to be better, but if our perimeter defense improves otherwise, and Oden and LMA become those dual anchors down low (with Oden being the main anchor, of course), then Blake could be good enough to be a championship PG.
I have often wondered what it is about being the best PG (Nash, Kidd, Paul, etc) that makes them less likely, historically, to win a championship, and I think it’s some combination of not having a co-playmaker, always having to have the ball in your hand (and as we see with Roy, on nights where he HAS to have the ball in his hands for us to do anything, because everyone else isn’t doing much, we suffer), and most importantly DEFENSE.
There have been great PG defenders to also be the best PG in the game at the time, but a perimeter defensive player, no matter how great, simply cannot effect the game as much as a great interior defender. Someone to act as the defensive anchor, challenge shots, block shots, keep people out of the middle, force jumpers, and rebound— those abilities will defeat the best PG in history almost every time.
That is why big men win championships.
Mortimer
by Mortimer on Jan 22, 2009 11:24 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Magic Johnson wasn't a PG
Sorry, that’s just the position they credited to him.
Magic Johnson was a MJ/LeBron player. One of those guys who transcends positions. You can call him whatever you want.
Remember when he played center for the L@kers?
I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.
I sure do
If you smile at me I will understand, because that is something everybody everywhere does in the same language. - Crosby/Stills/Kantner
Magic is more Lebron
Jordan could have played 3 positions. Lebron is the first man since Magic who could play, and succeed, at any position.
Well, maybe Jordan could only play 3 positions
but he could play them so well that you could send out Barkley’s grandma to play center and it wouldn’t have mattered.
I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.
Hopefully
she won’t get on the court because she’s too busy being Charles’s designated driver. – Elgin
If you smile at me I will understand, because that is something everybody everywhere does in the same language. - Crosby/Stills/Kantner
by 22baylor on Jan 22, 2009 2:05 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Oooh
That wasn’t nice, Elgin.
Rec, though. Because she could also chaperone him and make sure he didn’t get into other kinds of trouble.
I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.
Playmakers
I think it is a bit of a fluke that they don’t win them more often. Shaq in early 2000s could have won his 3 titles with a large number of supporting cast members. It just happened to be Kobe. Trade Kobe for one of the premier PGs at the time and that PG would have 3 titles instead of Kobe.
Jordan’s teams… a Pippen level PG may or may not have given them 6 titles. They’d have won at least 3 no doubt, but the fit of Jordan + Super PG might not have worked as well.
Did Billups win the MVP for Detroit? He’s not a superstar by any means, but he is a solid PG that was probably the leader of his title team. That team was a bit of an outlier. Teams with 5-6 good plays and 0 superstars aren’t supposed to win titles.
Shaq coulda' done it without the best PG in the world
The best PG in the world likely couldn’t beat Shaq.
Someday, the best PG will win a title again, and not in a flukey way like the Chauncey led Pistons. Jordan’s no-big-man way of winning was different also, and underlines how he is the bestest ever (of the modern era, if it needs to be said). But traditionally, the best big men win much much much more than the best PGs, and I don’t think it’s a fluke.
Chris Paul will be a good test case. He’s the best PG in the league, by far. No ambiguity there. He won’t likely have a great big man next to him (it could happen, but they won’t get a great big man in a trade because no one trades great big men in their prime, they aren’t gonna be able to sign a great big man in free agency, and they’ll be too good to draft the next Great Big Man. And Paul isn’t leaving New Orleans anytime soon). He has a decent one-way jump shooting power forward, and a slumping Tyson Chandler. His cast will change overtime, but he’ll consistently be the absolute very best at his position.
And I very much doubt he’ll ever win a title, unless he gets a real big man.
Without Oden, our Roy/LMA/whoever led team is just the modern Sacramento Kings or PHX Suns… good to great regular season team, can maybe win it all if everything goes their way in the playoffs, but much more likely to falter to a team with a great big man.
Mortimer
Do the positions your best players play really matter?
Jordan and Pippen played on the wings.
Shaq played the 5 and Kobe the 2. Same thing with Hakeem and Clyde.
The Spurs won with stars at the 1, 2, and 5.
The 1989-90 Pistons had Isiah at PG and Dumars at SG.
The 2004 Pistons had no stars but that was okay because Kobe wouldn’t pass the ball to Shaq.
Stars matter, not positions.
The best transcend positions, true
I’m just underlining the point that the “pg” position on a championship roster is not usually filled by one of the best, or THE best, PG playing in that era.
And, that except for a few exceptions (Jordan being Jordan, and the Pistons in general), a big man is required to win the championship— a dominant big man.
So, a Steve Blake could very well be a championship worthy PG, as long as Oden becomes Oden— let alone Roy being Roy and LMA continuing to improve.
The same stands for Bayless if he becomes our starting PG, but isn’t a tradition PG and just fulfills the Steve Blake role a lil’ more athletically. We don’t need the best playmaker in the world there, depending on what big man and other wing(s) you got.
I dunno what it means, but I’d say that aside from Magic Johnson, whoever is known as “The Best PG Playing” is a one position dude, who is only a PG— just a very amazing one. The best players, like Jordan, Lebron, and in his own lesser way Roy, are capable of being a PG and more. Chris Paul can only be a PG.
I do not know what that means as far as why the best PGs don’t usually win titles, but it means sumthin’.
Mortimer
Dominant big men give you two things
Rebounding and low post scoring. The Jordan Bulls were able to get those two things outside of their C/PF positions because Jordan and Pippen were both very good rebounders for their positions and because they posted Jordan up a lot and had him use his turn-around jumper to get the low post presence they needed so they didn’t have to play pick and pop all night for their points.
Yeah
I agree, that’s part of the exception… Jordan had a great post up game.
Normally it comes most consistently from big men, but you need to be able to get consistent baskets which normally comes from inside play, so SOMEONE needs to be able to post up.
Anything involving those Bulls teams, and Jordan in general, should be recused from being used as good examples that others could follow though, since those teams had Michael Jordan on them and that isn’t duplicable.
It’s another example of a great team having someone they can go to in the post, though. They just didn’t have a big man being used that way.
Mortimer
Your list
Looks like big mean aren’t needed from your sample, but that’s a fluky era. Go back another 10 years and you have Kareem/Parish/Moses winning titles. Shoot even the 89-90 Pistons had Bill, who was only 6’10 or 6’11 and was on the downward part of his career, but was still an evil evil man to face down low.
Still, I’d credit Isiah as being the closest thing to a TRUE PG to ever LEAD his team to the finals. (His vs Dumars as leader is questionable.)
It's true that a star at the 5
has been part of the recipe for most championship teams in the NBA’s history. A talented center probably helps a team more than a star at any other position, but there are enough exceptions, including the current champions, that I’m convinced that the real key to winning a title is the number of highly talented players a team has, not the positions those players occupy.
But is he?
A jump shooting weak defense ok-rebounder at PF is decent, an allstar some years, but not taking anyone anywhere in the playoffs.
LMA could very well only be David West in a few years, but as a 3rd option that’s okay. As the 2nd best player, it’s not that great.
David West averages 20 ppg and only 7 rebounds. LMA could easily reach those numbers, and I don’t think any of us think LMA is enough of an inside presence to go far in the playoffs. David West is a nice, decent player, but similar to LMA in that regard.
I like both players; I prefer LMA because of his length, attitude, work ethic, and age (West is 28— if LMA ain’t better than the current version of West in 5 years, I’ll be a turkey’s gizzard). But if we didn’t have Oden, LMA would not be enough of an inside presence to go far in the playoffs on either side of the ball.
And neither is West. In terms of playoff teams, playoff level of talent, West is decent.
Mortimer
I love Blake, but I'd take
Rondo in a second over Blake.
I didn't notice that
Yeah, even with Rondo not having a jumper, you’d have to take him over Blake. He’s a player.
Morty
You don't really need a jumper
When you have garnett, pierce, and allen on your team. Got the jumper pretty much handled for that squad.
"Respect everyone, fear no one." -TP
Caron Butler's name rarely comes up on this board
because we only play the Wizards twice in a season.
How about U of Maryland ??
It's GO time !
by walkoff41 on Jan 22, 2009 12:45 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
1. B-Roy
2. Oden
3, LMA – 18 pts and 8 reb. pretty good by any standard. Trade value for LMA is high for one reason, he is very good. Not great, not yet, but very good.
4. Bayless – Starting PG IMO. In time he will be a more efficiant passer.
5. Rudy – Danny Ainge with hops, future 6 man of the year.
6. Webster – not a popular pick, but I think if Webster can come off the bench, he and Rudy could be great together. Plus he has a good long term deal thats very affordable.
Who's getting 8 rebounds a game? try 6 and a half
And that’s in 36+ minutes a game
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on Jan 22, 2009 7:20 AM PST up reply actions
In other words, LMA gets one rebound every 6 minutes
Brandon gets 5 in roughly equal minutes..
AND HE’S SIX INCHES SHORTER
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on Jan 22, 2009 7:22 AM PST up reply actions
But most importantly
He’s outrebounding the other power-forward out there. He rebounds at .8 more rebounds per 48 minutes than the opposing power forward. If he takes them out of position that’s fine with me.
Great Question
Roy, Aldridge, Oden – the big three to come
Batum – I was ready to trade Outlaw the first time I saw Batum play live. I have softened on that a bit because Travis does some special things that are hard to replicate, but Batum looks like he has all the tools and the court awareness to be a steady workhorse for a long time to come.
Rudy – I wasn’t sold that Rudy was going to be a good NBA player until I saw how he works on the court. He is all over he place on defense and knows where guys want the ball to score. I think Nate will rein him in a bit and cut down on some of his high risk plays that end up as TOs.
Bayless – I love Joel and think he is key but Bayless is emerging and showing that he can be that compliment to Roy.
The future starters are the big three plus Batum and Bayless and Rudy is the first man off the bench to bring scoring and energy. Throw in a three point bomber and a back up big man F/C type (Uncle Cliffy type) and you have your team.
PTB Liberation Day - 2/10/04
My six
1) Roy – We need someone who can create something for himself and others. Someone to take the last shot. Roy’s your man
2) Oden – Defense, Rebounding, Inside presence on offense. Passing from the post will open up three point shooters and shots from the elbow.
3) Aldridge – shots from the elbow. Long, potential for being a good defensive player. Ability to run the floor.
4) Martell – Ability to hit the three crucial based on Oden’s development and Roy’s passing ability. Athletic, can run the floor and has potential to be a lockdown defender. Perfect for this team.
5) Rudy – three point shooting, moves without the ball, brings intangibles to the game
6) Batum – Defense, Defense, Defense. Will improve on offense. Long, can run the floor.
I think we will be able to plug a defensive PG into the game and will not miss a beat.
"I saw him in the face" Sergio's quote on the latest alley-oop to Rudy.
From your podcast,
I knew you were going to ask this question and I immediately decided who they were.
It turns out they are the exact same six you selected Dave.
Brandon Roy just destroyed everything in his path. There's your rational analysis -- Dave
This really is a tough question....
As everyone knows; our roster is loaded with some of the best talent available. I get kind giddy thinking about the next stud we’ll end up drafting this June; Draft Express project us picking up James from Texas; and he is a BEAST but here is my 6 keepers in no paticular order…
J Bay Bay… He’s only gonna get stronger and more confident each and every game from this point forward. It seem like he and Oden still got a crybaby complex when it comes to NBA officials but they will only get more seasoned
G.O fa sho… Happy Birthday…His swag is coming…..Shaq Diesal type SWAG
Starksville’s Finest; T. Outlaw; I still think he is the glue that puts everything together for this team; I cringe everytime I think of him in a Grizzlie uni; Gotta hit them free throws though.
B.Roy… Allstar; confident; perfect leader for this sqaud
L.A I think he’ll end up leading the team in ppg by the end of the year. Will get snubbed for the Allstar game but his numbers will only continue to improve year by year.
Rudy; Last but not least; He will become a cult favorite when he win the slam dunk title next month but he already has proved the Manu comparisons last summer to be dead on. I could do w/o his fade away 3’s in a game but he will show his true worth to this team come playoff time.
To me; there is no one not on this list that I would not want on this team; but these 6 players right here are the New Idenitity of the the Blazers and will be the core of a championship team.
"The official GOON for McMillian and co"
1. Oden, If he never got any better then he is right now he would still help a team that was in a championship window. We all know he will get alot better.
2. LA. Not sure why all the bashing he has carried this team this season when we have had bad scoring nights, he is way ahead of where the Blazers said he was going to be at this point in his career. On draft night he was a 4-5 year project, I think he just needs a little bulk and he wont get toasted in the paint so easily.
3. Roy. Im not sure if he can really get much better then he is now but he is the glue that holds everything together. Allstar guards and small forwards seem to be available if a team is willing to take chances.
4. Batum, The only player that when we throw the word growth(that phrase has been worn out about the blazers) around he is exactly what you should picture.
5. Blake, Like has been posted a couple times already he is steady and reliable, I dont think there would be a big problem from him if Portland went out and landed a better guard and he was forced to come off the bench. Blakes another glue guy for this team.
I really can’t put another player on here who I would be upset in being involved in a trade. Rudy is fun to watch has shown alot of flair but he needs to bulk up he looks smaller now then when he joined the team in late Aug. He also is a gambler with the ball it is fun when he hits not so much when he doesnt .
Outlaw and Martell, Im just done with there irradic play, Martell has done nothing but disapoint to this point in his career, he has a big game and lives off it for a month, Im not sure what Travis is doing he seems like he doesnt know what he is doing half the time.
Pryz fits in now, but will he 2 years from now? He has been relativly heathy the last couple seasons but he has a history of health issues also, if he was a couple years younger I would put him in at the 6 spot.
Not a Bayless or Frye fan, Bayless absolutely needs to look for teammates at all times for assists, Im not sure that is in his makeup. Frye? Really bummed he has not taken control of the backup pf spot, the guys is a great ambassador for Portland but with no game as of late.
For the rest, c’mon Feb 19th. I want to see what the future of this team is going to look like.
Oden and LA imo are the only untouchables on Portlands roster, unless the name Lebron was mentioned then noone would be untouchable,,,,,,,
I try to help with everything," Fernandez said. "If the coach says go rebound, I go rebound. I work for the team.
""If I'm playing this game to get media and attention, I shouldn't be here," Aldridge said. "I'm here to play basketball, and do what I can do to help this team win."
My categories
(Future)Core of our Team:
Roy
Oden
Great Potential but could see trading if we got someone obviously better:
LaMarcus
Batum
Fernandez
Bayless
Current Core Guys(who might not be in our championship window plans):
Blake
Pryz
Players I don’t expect to be in Portland too long:
Trout
Rodriguez
Player who get’s his own category because he’s been injured and we don’t know where he’s at:
Martell
It's hard to define "keeper"
Does it mean a player who should never, ever be traded? There are very few of those. Does it mean the most essential players now (Blake), or the most essential players in future years (not necessarily Blake). Here’s what I come up with:
Do not trade:
1. Roy
2. Oden
Players I HOPE will still be on the team in two years:
3. Przybilla (not essential, but makes the biggest difference)
4. Outlaw (our #2 go-to player; a game-changer)
5. Batum (most upside compared to market value)
Players who could easily be part of a trade:
- Aldridge
- Bayless
- Rudy
(So my #6 “keeper” is any of these who are not traded. I like them all. But if Toronto panicked and wanted to send Chris Bosh right over, would you not give up some of these names? Really? And I like Bayless’s potential, but there have to be more point/combo guards out there.)
Outlaw over Aldridge or Bayless???
Outlaw’s error rate is astonishing and clearly counter-balances his many positive attributes.
by upper left corner on Jan 22, 2009 8:17 AM PST up reply actions
Yeah
I think Outlaw just flat-out wins games. Perfect sixth man. High value to the team, somewhat lower value in trade.
Obviously I wouldn’t trade Aldridge or Bayless unless the value in return was really good.
I see this point of view
Right now, with Martell out, and Nic raw and not really an offensive threat, we have to rely on Travis. If we could play Travis 18 mpg, his “error rate” would be a lot less costly, and when he’s having one of those game winning performances, you play him more and let him win the game for you.
Having guys like that off the bench can be really, really valuable. Travis is the kind of guy that can win you a road playoff game even when honesty compels you to admit that the other team is a little better. And that one stellar performance may be what wins you the series, even if he then disappears for six games, because it gets you home-court advantage.
I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.
Thank you! And as you say, consider the playoffs
Outlaw was born to be on the court in the fourth quarter of a playoff game. He is our other clutch player in addition to Roy, who will be double-teamed. He has already proven this a lot of times over the past two years.
Note I didn't say I agreed :)
Travis is not on my list of six (though I love Travis). But I can certainly understand why someone would put him on their list.
I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.
Also, it's easy to say what would make any of these players indispensable
Aldridge: Stronger post defense and post offense.
Outlaw and Bayless: Interior passing, allowing their drives to result in assists to Oden, LMA or Przybilla. Watch how Blake does it and do that, at least as one option.
2011 NBA Champs: Starting 5, plus sixth man.
1) Roy: Obvious
2) Oden: He will dominate, and dominant centers are the rarest commodity in the game.
3) LMA: Find the lack of appreciation for LMA’s game and his future potential hard to fathom. OK, he isn’t Duncan or Malone, but Duncan or Malone would not fit as well with what Oden is going to be in a couple of years. In case y’all didn’t notice. 6’11" guys who run like gazelles, defend on the perimeter, and shoot like Nowitzki do not grow on trees. My prediction: the naysayers are going to look profoundly silly in a couple of years.
4) Bayless: potential. Hopefully a combination of D Wade/T Parker in the making. Combine his physical skills, his work ethic and his fierce competitiveness, and I don’t see how the kid is not going to be a winner. I think it will take a while for him to learn to distribute effectively, and dish off the drive, but his presence on the floor, combined with our other weapons, will put enormous pressure on the opposing defense.
5) Nic: potential. Hope Nic was taking notes when T Prince lit us up.
6) Rudy: Great vision and flair. I do have concerns about whether he will ever become a good defender, but I think he can become a great 6th man.
Honorable mention
7.a) Pryz: absolutely essential in the short run, but he will become less essential as Oden develops
7.b) Webster: I had huge expectations for Webster this season and am very happy that the team extended him. I value his ability to play both the 2 and the 3. I think his beautiful stroke will become deadly, and I think he can become a very solid perimeter defender.
by upper left corner on Jan 22, 2009 8:14 AM PST reply actions
I guess it all depends on our time frame
I think the Blazers are close to being title contenders THIS year. Everyone talks about 3 years from now, but I really do think the Blazers could win the title this year if they make a big trade.
Is LMA a starting caliber PF? Of course. He is very skilled and a quality big man. But…….the value the Blazers could get in return right now really could put them over the top.
I think Amare S, Caron Butler, or even Baron Davis could really put the Blazers in championship consideration right now.
LMA “haters” are only saying that what we get in return for him would be more likely to help us win a championship THIS year.
by John Park Williams on Jan 22, 2009 8:29 AM PST up reply actions
Ya lost me on Baron Davis
Larry (the new Johnnie Cochran) Miller: "If we get screwed, we're gonna sue"
by 92wastheyear on Jan 22, 2009 9:27 AM PST up reply actions
No bull puckey.
homer seems to be another fantasy league kind of guy. Never happy with the team he’s got, because he thinks he can improve it by swapping out parts.
hakkaa päälle !
Orly?
LA vs AS- Amare has attitude problems, Amare is terrible on defense, and Amare’s numbers are inflated by Nash. Amare is also older. I’m a fan of his, but this trade would be sketch.
LA vs CB- Eh, no real complaints with Butler, but in a year or two this trade would look awful.
LA vs BD- Is this a joke? Why would we want the PG with a shot that makes Bayless and Sergio look like Steve Nash. BD also has an attitude problem.
I just don't see it.
Our young guys are exceptional, but we have FOUR rookies, and FOUR third year players. Six of our rotation players are babies by league standards.
Why do you think so many analysts didn’t even pick the Blazers to make the playoffs? Because most teams this young are dreadful. What they have accomplished is a testament to their talent and effort.
But, winning a Championship? This year? Beating the Lakers, Spurs, and Celtics in seven game series probably without home court advantage? That is a very low odds proposition.
I think predicting a win in two years is pretty optimistic. Trading away major young talent for mid or late career stars is more likely a path to mediocrity.
In a word, PATIENCE.
by upper left corner on Jan 22, 2009 8:03 PM PST up reply actions
Name me teams that won on Patience
The window is very very short in the NBA.
Unless we think BRoy is going to turn into Michael Jordan, the Blazers had better be thinking short term as opposed to long term.
Also, I dont give a damn what “analysts” say, they are on tv while Im watching the games, so they clearly have no idea.
by John Park Williams on Jan 22, 2009 11:16 PM PST up reply actions
San Antonio, Detroit both have kept their core intact for many years
Portland’s situation is extremely unusual. Our big three and most of our top role players are all under 25. I am not aware of another team that has had that situation.
I am not saying stand pat. I am saying recognize that we need to take the time to evaluate the wealth of young talent we have to figure out what we need. This team probably needs one deal or one free agent signing to really get over the top. The point is to make it the right deal at the right cost. Trading away 2-3 young talents for an over the hill star who is only a marginal upgrade is a mistake.
Someone did an analysis before the season about the average age of Championship teams over the past decade, and I believe the average was about 28.5. Our average age (without LaFrentz) is under 24. You can deny it all you want, but patience is the smart move.
by upper left corner on Jan 23, 2009 8:04 AM PST up reply actions
Too easy
Pippen and Jordan played together 3 years without getting a title. They won it on their 4th year together as Bulls. Did they make any significant trades? Not really, just rotated around fillers.
Shaq and Kobe were together 3 years without getting a title. They won it on their 4th year together as Lakers. Did they make any significant reades? Not really, just rotated around fillers.
Spurs won it a bit quicker with their core 3, but they didn’t win it the next year. Did they do anything significant? Nope, they tried again and won, then failed, then won again.
Our big 3 has been together… HALF a year. 2 of our big 3 have been together for 2.5 years. Patience DID pay off for the NBAs last 3 multi title teams.
This is exactly my criteria
After Roy’s rookie year, I realized that the Blazers could win a championship with him. The question I always use to evaluate other players on the Blazers is:
Could this player play significant minutes on a championship team in a year or two? (the start of the Blazers’ prime Championship Window)
My six:
Roy -———— can dominate a game. Required to win a title.
Aldridge -—- can score consistently. Not the best 4 in the league, but good enough.
Oden -———- defensive force, can change a game. Can score. Definitely a championship center.
Webster -—- I’m optimistic he can come back physically. I like him better than Rudy. Did you see Rudy fall down in iso defense against LeBron last night? What if that was in a Finals game?
Bayless -—— In 2010 and later (the Blazers championship window), will be better than Blake.
Outlaw -——- Can get a shot off anytime he wants, and can hit a championship winning shot.
by unblindloyalty on Jan 22, 2009 12:18 PM PST up reply actions
My only real problem with your list is Outlaw
He is just too inconsistent, and makes far too many defensive errors. Outlaw is “The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly,” often all three in the space of five minutes.
I share your hope for Webster. What about Nic? Do you think 2011 is a realistic time frame?
by upper left corner on Jan 22, 2009 8:09 PM PST up reply actions
Philthy's
Big 3
Rudy
Nic
KP
The most hated Blazer is like the least hottest supermodel - Sabonis4Ever
My real list is pretty short.
1. Roy – Duh. Already a top 10 guy, I think he’s pretty close to top 5.
2. Oden – I’m revising my expectations downward, but it’d be stupid to give up on him until after he’s played three full seasons. It’s starting to hurt my soul to watch Durant and Oden on back to back nights, though.
3. Bayless – Again, you don’t deal promising players until you know they won’t work out for you. Bayless shows great promise, and looks like he could end up being a perfect match for Roy, if he ever regains his shooting touch.
After those three, the rest of the six are all ones I don’t actually believe are keepers. I think they’re quality players, but I wouldn’t mind moving them for other players that could maybe help us more.
4. Batum. Shows some nice potential as a top notch wing defender and role player. Needs to develop physically to really reach that potential.
5. LMA. Good at getting his shot, and scores a nice number. Inefficient and doesn’t offer much outside of scoring, and is as soft as marshmallow. He’s the kind of player a team always loves when they have but never misses after they get rid of. Unless he radically changes his career arc, he’s never even going to be as good as Antawn Jamison.
6. Rudy – by default. I think he’s trade bait personally. His only realistic position is a position that our best guy prefers, and he’s not nearly as good as our best guy. But he’s too good to be coming off the bench, yall are crazy if you think Rudy’s going to be happy with a diet of 20 mpg as Roy’s backup. That all spells t-r-a-d-e m-e.
I suspect we will keep Rudy
and he will average 28-32 mins per game
Larry (the new Johnnie Cochran) Miller: "If we get screwed, we're gonna sue"
by 92wastheyear on Jan 22, 2009 9:30 AM PST up reply actions
Ive wondered about Rudi’s attitude towards coming off the bench before, He did not seem to mind it during the Olympics, he has not shown any sign of it bothering him now, thats kind of a wait and see experiment to me.
I try to help with everything," Fernandez said. "If the coach says go rebound, I go rebound. I work for the team.
""If I'm playing this game to get media and attention, I shouldn't be here," Aldridge said. "I'm here to play basketball, and do what I can do to help this team win."
...
Players who will get us to a championship…
1. Oden – I think it has become obvious that Oden is not a bust. My biggest worry was how he would bounce back from his injury/surgery and it doesn’t take a genius to see how he can easily dominate games. Even on a off shooting night by the rest of the team he can easily secure a victory. I was never a person who was like “ODEN IS GONNA BE THE NEXT SHAQ NEXT YEAR!”, I always kept my expectations low until he actually plays and the only struggle he is having is with silly fouls. I know now when he starts demanding the ball and doesn’t foul that he will dominate for the blazers, and with Roy and LMA with him on the same court… this is how you will win championships.
2. B-Roy – Obvious reasons. When Oden, LMA and Roy eventually work together sufficiently, easy buckets will happen and easy games. Roy has proven to be the most consistent out of all of the young blazers and he is only in his 3rd year.
3. LMA – I’m surprised by how many people are against LMA right now. I think if we were to win against Cleveland the overall result would be different and people would be praising him. LMA is part of the big 3 of this team, he is in no way inconsistent. Every player in the NBA has bad games, so you can’t expect him to be pitch perfect… especially in his 3rd year. The only thing LMA does need to improve on is he is soft, once Oden develops more things should become a little easier.
The next 3:
1. Rudy – Rudy is absolutely amazing not only to watch but see what he provides. Right now people are viewing him as primarily a 3 point threat but I know we all know he isn’t just a 3 man. Rudy is only a rookie in the NBA and next year I know he will improve big time.
2. Blake – I love Blake and I disagree with everyone who says the blazers wont go anywhere with Blake. He makes the team work efficiently, he finds an open man and is consistent. Blake is pretty much the only consistent 3-point shooter the blazers have and has the capability of firing off the 3 and getting us back into games where we don’t deserve to even be close. Another thing to consider about Blake is he is playing his best year of basketball and is STILL improving.
3. Outlaw – Yeah I know majority of you guys will disagree with me here, I don’t really care though. When all is said about Outlaw and how inconsistent he is and so on, he provides so much for the team. Like recently when Roy was injured, they needed a player to step up and bring the energy and as I predicted Outlaw did that. When the game is on the line I expect Travis to be in, especially for his 3 point threat as of late. Travis needs to stop taking his silly shots though, that’s really the only problem I have with him. As a 6th man he brings so much to the game.
4. Pryz – Yes I know I said the next 3 but I couldn’t help but mention him. Pryz went from the center who I wondered why we even have him on the team… to the center who is consistent and just plain bad ass. Joel’s tough attitude and not backing down to anything is vital. He is also incredible at rebounding and is no doubt the best bench center in the league (funny how that works).
I’m Still Not Convinced About:
1. Batum – Some games he is great but most he is meh. I’d like to see more of him before I develop an actual opinion.
2. Bayless – Potential is the right word but he really needs to prove his potential. He has had a few games as of late, but he needs to take the role of PG and dish the ball out. Needs to work on his 3 point threat too, it’s weird during warm up before the Cavs game he made like every single three but hasn’t been nailing them during the game. Sometimes he reminds me of how sloppy Jarret Jack was but then I realize he has only played a few nba games. I’m still developing my opinion about him.
by brandonmitchell on Jan 22, 2009 8:39 AM PST reply actions
What's startling here
On a team that most experts project to win at least 49 games, the consensus of its fans represented here is that four of its six least dispensable players are rookies.
Rookies!
(Frankly, I agree for the long term; if someone said, you have to get rid of Joel or Jerryd, I’d keep Jerryd because our focus is two years from now, and most players decline significantly after age 31.)
Has there ever been even a 43-39 team with four rookies like these? Has there ever been a 45 win or more team with even three?
It’s remarkable, really. And we’re of course not including Joel Freeland, who I think could be a very good NBA player.
Remarkable.
Look at the question Dave asked
He didn’t ask who is most indispensable now, but who do you most want to be part of the future team. That’s why the rookies get mention.
I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.
My Six and more
1. Roy- This is obvious
2. Oden- Also obvious
3. LA- He prefers the outside now, but he’s still young. Also, this frees up room for Oden. If you don’t think him taking the opposing PF out of the middle doesn’t help with our team rebounding, you’re also on something.
4. Rudy- Agreeing with 6MOY hype. The small lineup of PG/Roy/Rudy seems to work.
5. Webster- His trade value is low right now, but when he comes back he will melt faces.
6. Batum- Will replace Outlaw as our future energy off the bench.
7. Blake- He FITS perfectly with this starting line. Ask anyone in the professional world, fit is one of the most important factors in a job.
8. Przybilla- Good backup for Oden for years to come hopefully.
9. Sergio- Has shown he can be a PG, 0 turnovers in 50 minutes?
10. Outlaw- Can win games for us by himself, can also lose a lot more.
11. Bayless- He can move up if he learns to pass. If not we already have a blackhole in Outlaw and we already have a guy who can drive in Roy.
I'm only requiring KP to keep three
and you know which three……Roy, Oden and Aldridge. After that, KP can mix and match and do whatever he thinks is best. I’d love to have the others stay, but in KP I trust.
LAME!!!
How does Aldridge make the cut? Especially out of only three? If GO ever dominate to his potential where will LA get all his shots from? We’re still not going to be a fast pace team so shots in general will be somewhat hard to come by. Roy will get his, GO will TAKE his, and unless hardly anyone else takes a shot LA will see a significant decline in his opportunities. Unless he starts coming off the bench to provide more scoring there, he’s best off being traded for a point guard, or some other upgrade. :)
How does Aldridge make the cut?
Are you kidding? You wouldn’t keep a guy that’s regularly putting up 20 and 10 and is only 23 years old? He’s a better performer as a PF as that age than Karl Malone was and look how he turned out.
Can he and should he get better? Absolutely.
Will he? Absolutely.
Do I want to see that happen on another team? Absolutely NOT!
by antediluvian on Jan 23, 2009 6:24 PM PST up reply actions
Pretty easy
Roy
LA
Oden
Outlaw
Webster
Blake
From the back of Travis Outlaw's Franz card: Travis leads the team in monstrous thunder dunks, wins awards for post game interviews, and often gets extra points for degree of difficulty.
Oden
Trade oden. He’s had a couple good games as of late, but the guy is an injury machine: high school injured, college injured, rookie year injured. We could use a better, more reliable big man. Maybe Bynum?
...
That would be the worst mistake ever.
First of all, this is Oden’s first year back from surgery and he’s showing he can dominate. Oden’s goals should be stay healthy and consistent. He’s doing that but his problems are fouls (he doesn’t do anything different in the foul region as other centers, he just comes off and nervous and swings his arms too much which makes it look like he is committing fouls every time. He needs to learn how to look confident and stay smooth like he did during the Boston and Bucks game).
You brought up Bynum as a reliable big man but look at his first years in the nba…
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/andrew_bynum/career_stats.html
and Bynum is also injury prone.
Speaking of injury prone, Roy also gets injured a lot and look at him. There is much more on Oden than Roy. Players like Oden don’t come very often and we are lucky to even have him on the team and develop him.
by brandonmitchell on Jan 22, 2009 9:43 AM PST up reply actions
If Webster hadn't got hurt, he'd be a no brainer
Batum wouldn’t have gotten off the bench and would have recieved no votes. (I do like him a lot, though.)
The big three.
Bayless. Future starter.
Fernandez. Future sixth man.
Webster. The perfect player in the starting 5 and still extremely young.
If Portland doesn’t trade for a starter. I think this is the way to a championship.
My Keepers
- Brandon Roy – Despite his injury issues and inconsistency stemming from being a self-described “rhythm shooter” who has serious accuracy issues when not in rhythm, like for the past several games, for example, he is the leader of this team and provides its emotional center. They need him to perform well more consistently to be a championship caliber team, and hopefully that will come.
- Greg Oden – A once in a decade, franchise center. If he can avoid further serious injuries, he will develop into a perennial All-Star caliber player.
- LaMarcus Aldridge – He’s made tremendous progress over the last three years, both in his post passing and court vision and in terms of consistency. People who call him “soft” must not realize he’s taking shots from where his coach has him positioned on the court within the offense. Why does Nate have him taking 18’ jump shots? Because he makes them. He proved last year he could also play effectively in the post, but that’s not where he’s been asked to be as much this year.
- Travis Outlaw – Great offensive players can’t be effectively defended by one person. It doesn’t matter much who’s covering LeBron James or Kobe Bryant, they’re going to get theirs. The best you can do is stay in front of them and force tough shots (which they’ll usually make). So I’m not not swayed by people arguing defense first. Travis is not a complete player, but he can get off his shot against anyone, and he’s not intimidated in pressure situations. You need a guy who can hit that pressure shot for you, and Travis has proven he can be that guy.
- Martell Webster – The Blazers just signed him to a contract extension before the season started. Seems to me he’s past the issues he had with consistency and attitude, at the end of the year last season he was creating off the dribble and playing tough defense, and the team was expecting him to be doing more of the same as their starting small forward this year. Webster will be a huge contributor when he’s healthy again, being hurt all year has him flying under the radar.
That’s it, only 5. Rudy is a good sixth man, Blake provides a steady hand, and Pryzbilla is nearly all you could ask for in a backup center. Batum is a promising rookie with strong defensive instincts and a nose for the ball, and Bayless is an aggressive, dynamic scorer. If they got rid of any of these guys (or Sergio, Diogu, or Frye) in the off-season for a high quality point guard who could shoot (like Blake), and create off the dribble for himself (Bayless) and teammates (Sergio), it’d be a huge improvement to the team.
I expect that’s exactly what Kevin Pritchett is going to try and do. The current roster is a playoff roster, but likely not ever a championship roster.
great idea for a thread Dave
Six keepers. Hmm. Out of this group it’s difficult not to keep twelve.
Six keepers means that I am going to keep my starting five of the future, and a sixth man.
My six are: Oden, Aldridge, Roy, Fernandez, Bayless, and Outlaw.
That hurt.
Seventh is Blake, eighth is Webster, ninth is Frye, tenth is Przybilla, and I hope we figure out a way to keep them all, and all the ones I left out too, especially Kopponen and Freeland who I think might have a great future in the NBA.. – Elgin
If you smile at me I will understand, because that is something everybody everywhere does in the same language. - Crosby/Stills/Kantner
Frye plays two positions
maybe three. I love Joel and I hope he retires as a Blazer, but soon enough Oden will make him superfluous. Frye is more valuable in an injury situation.
I really hope LaMarcus doesn’t go down with an injury. But if that happens, maybe people will value both him and Frye more highly than they do right now. – Elgin
If you smile at me I will understand, because that is something everybody everywhere does in the same language. - Crosby/Stills/Kantner
Hopefully if Aldridge goes down (NEVER)
he waits until Webster is back. Outlaw can move to the starting PF spot, Webster to starting SF, and Batum can take Outlaw’s spot as backup SF. Frye would still see more minutes when Outlaw was on the bench though.
I see your logic though.
Dave, six is not enough & it's too early!
It’s unrealistic to try and narrow our team down to six keepers. We still have too much raw talent. The team needs to be left alone for a couple more years and then judgement can be made on certain players. Last nights game shows that this team is close to becoming a contender. I can’t give you a list right now.
left alone for a couple more years?
doesn’t that seem excessive?
I’d be perfectly fine with trading RLEC, Ike, Channing, Shav, Sergio, Outlaw, Blake (in order of most fine with trading) if we could get something worthwhile…
it would be heresay to let go of Oden or Roy… The upside on Rudy, Batum, and Bayless makes them tough to turn away right now… Przy’s unique and irreplaceable ability to contribute regardless of how Oden plays makes him special.. and LMA.. well.. LMA may have the best trade value to amazingness ratio suggesting that if the Blazers could get someone special, they should jump on it.. but I think that we would be hard pressed to get someone better than him in a trade
oh yea and webster..
I would like for him to have at least half of aseason to play to know where his ceiling seems to be…
Trading LMA?
Your just proving my point. This guy could turn into one of the best power forwards in the NBA. Your not going to give him a couple of years? I don’t care who you get in trade. it’s too early!
I sure hope he comes back during this season
so we can see him with this group. I’m afraid some kind of a trade is going to happen that will either send him away or be disadvantageous to him Blazer-personnel-wise. – Elgin
If you smile at me I will understand, because that is something everybody everywhere does in the same language. - Crosby/Stills/Kantner
Bayless
Roy, Aldridge, Oden, ….
I think you have to keep Bayless. He’s a special kind of athlete, with a special kind of fire/competitiveness (a kind the majority of Blazers seem to lack— he could develop a kind of the old Pippen “refuse to lose” attitude) I think he’ll continue to develop steadily in his areas of strength. It would be nice to see a consistent outside shot, but if he could develop (and use frequently) the 6-7 foot pull up jumper (a la Rod Strickland) I think he’d be unstoppable.
The other guy we can’t ignore is Blake. The guy is a winner, a leader, a motivator— maybe not our starting point guard eventually, but he’s a “glue” guy. How valuable were Kerr and Paxon to the Bulls??? Invaluable…
I gotta get back to work :-)
Hmmmm, Frye, Shav, Outlaw, Steve, Batum, Sergio, Webster and Ike your needed in the coaches office...
1.) Brandon
2.) LA
3.) Oden
4.) Rudy
5.) Pryzbilla the Vanilla Gorilla
6.) Bayless
As of right now those are people I would not trade, period.
Everyone else is free game if a deal has their name in it, I trust KP to make the right moves in trade value for the open spots created in the SF position and PG position.
G.O. Blazers
The big six...
Brandon and Greg – obviously.
LMA – I’m a charter member of the “LMA is inefficient and soft and takes 2/3 jumpers even though he’s not that great a shooter” club, but Lamarcus is showing progress lately. Obviously he struggled for that ten game stretch earlier this year, but he’s got skills that are undeniable. It’s not that he doesn’t HAVE an inside game, it’s that he doesn’t go to it enough. He needs to attack more inside (2/3 of his shots), and he needs to draw fouls on purpose (not only by accident once every few games)… but I think the staff will make it so.
Bayless – It’s a different team with Bayless in the rotation. He’s an elite NBA athlete with a great work ethic. That’s a strong equation.
Outlaw – Similar to LMA. He’s not efficient yet, but he’s showing signs, and he has skills that can’t be replicated. Keep working on attacking the rim, keep working on the three point stroke. I see him as a bench scorer.
Rudy – It’s easy to forget he’s a 23-year-old rookie because he’s so wise. Keep him coming off the bench with Outlaw and you’re second unit is burying fools for the foreseeable future.
Don’t get me wrong, I love Billa, but if I’m picking six guys going forward, I gotta choose youth. Speaking of which, I like Nic a lot, and luckily in real life KP don’t gotta pick only six guys to go forward with. Because I think he’s a keeper too, as is Przy. But I think the reality of Outlaw and Rudy’s punch off the bench is a teensy weensy bit more valuable than Boom Boom’s POTENTIAL to develop into a stopper.
Q: Is Greg favoring his knee?
Frye: He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors.
I really like your take on Outlaw
and, additionally, the fact that he is effective at two positions. – Elgin
If you smile at me I will understand, because that is something everybody everywhere does in the same language. - Crosby/Stills/Kantner
With Outlaw's
jumping ability, I think he could be a great weakside shotblocker and rebounder. I wish he went to the basket more.
The Real Team
1) Sergio
2) Rudy
3) Batum
4) Travis
5) LA
6) Bayless
We start the first five, and have Bayless come off the bench. The key is firing Nate, and bringing in D’Antoni to replace him. We have the fastest pace team in the league, and just run over opponents like a Mac Truck.
"It's not who jumps the highest -- it's who wants it the most" Buck Williams
awesome - no Roy or Oden
That’s different! – Elgin
If you smile at me I will understand, because that is something everybody everywhere does in the same language. - Crosby/Stills/Kantner
The NBA
is supposed to be about entertainment, though.
I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.
Bring back Paul Westhead!
I love those 175-171 games! – Elgin
If you smile at me I will understand, because that is something everybody everywhere does in the same language. - Crosby/Stills/Kantner
Mos def
His team would be awesome to watch. That does raise an interesting question: would a fan pay more to watch his team lose 130-125 on a consistent basis or win 78-74 on a consistent basis?
sadly I agree
Winning is more marketable than losing, even if fireworks are going off during the loss. – Elgin
I get what I deserve. I deserve what I get. I have it so I deserve it. I deserve
it for I have it. I get what I deserve. What I deserve - what I deserve what
I get. I have it so I deserve. - Gentle Giant
Same as Dave, slightly different order....
1)Roy
2)Oden
3)LMA
4)Batum
5)Rudy
6)Thrilla
As much as I like Rudy, he is probably a 6th man on this team as long as Roy is healthy. I think Batum is going to be a special player and an incredible fit as a starting sf. I think he might go down as KP’s best draft pick ever considering how late they got him in the draft. Roy and Oden are the core of our future success, so its logical to try and get some good insurance behind them in case they should get hurt. Rudy and Joel are exactly that and more…
RUDY > MJ
The Fringe
Allrighty, I’ll go ahead and stick myself out on a limb.
1) Oden (A dominant center is still the best way to be successful, his potential to be that means he needs to stay)
2) LMA (Continues to get better and is already very complimentary to Oden)
3) Pryzbilla (The value of having Pryz come off the bench during the playoffs cannot be overstated.)
4) Bautm (awsome defensive potential either as a starter or Martell’s back-up)
5) Rudy (Since Roy’s not on this list Rudy needs to be here)
6) Bayless (we need a PG and he’s our best bet other than trade.)
Roy is not on my list, for the same reason the LMA and and Rudy are not on some of yours. I think that our best bet in terms of a trade, involves Roy…if we want an All-star or better back that’s what we need to give up. However, I don’t think we need to trade at all, so it’s a moot point.
Agreed but
People keep talking about making a trade to consolidate talent…like some team (ie Cavs) is going to give up their cornerstone player (ie LeBron) for all of the potential we can put together. I think that’s possible in a Memphis scenario but otherwise isn’t going to happen. However, it becomes much more feasilbe to consolidate your talent by trading B-Roy and some potential for a top tier player. Especially if that player is threatening to move anyway.
Not that I particularily advocate for that, but that I hate seeing people say “we’ll keep everyone we want, and just give up what we don’t want for an all-star (or future HoF)”
okay but Roy
IS AN ALL-STAR. HE IS THE TYPE OF PLAYER WE ARE TRYING TO GET. THESE ARE A KEEPERS LIST, not a WELL IF LEBRON JAMES IS AVAILABLE LIST.
My god people what is wrong with all of you? Batum is on your list but not Roy or Oden or Aldridge or Webster or Outlaw? Who exactly do you think he is? Outlaw scored more at a younger age with less experience and in 4 minutes less time! And then we have to put off our team advancement for waiting for Batum to become a decent player?? For the love of god people, yes he has some potential, right now we trade that potential and get a better player. ROY IS NOT TRADE BAIT! Potential is trade bait. And what is this junk about LA not being a good defender??
He is by PER outplaying on average the other player by +3.9, (82games.com) which means either he is an amazing offensive player, or he just defends the other player to the point of submission, or he is just plays better than the guy he is matched up against by +3.9. That is a large difference people! All of these other guys who are keepers on your lists (przy, bayless, batum, are all net negative PER). Outlaw is a +5 at the PF (but he also plays against the bench).
Perspective people, Batum has POTENTIAL, Bayless has POTENTIAL, Przy is BETTER THAN EXPECTED, LA AND ROY ARE THE REAL DEAL. YOU DON’T TRADE THE REAL DEAL.
I’m sorry I had to yell, but for the love of freaking mike this is getting out of hand.
From the back of Travis Outlaw's Franz card: Travis leads the team in monstrous thunder dunks, wins awards for post game interviews, and often gets extra points for degree of difficulty.
Who is mike
and why do you love him?
Fans always have different ideas….
I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.
Come on...
I would rather have Pryzbilla than Oden at this point. He shows flashes of brilliance but overall, he’s just not that good of an offensive player. Roy is #1 for sure. How can you list anyone but Roy at #1?
At this point
I think it’s potential more than current production. Most people agree that Pryzbilla is at the top of his game right now, and should start to decline over the next few years. However, most people also agree that Oden is going to get better than he is right now…how much better is where the skeptics and the pure homers differ.
Here's Mine
1. Oden He’ll be the best center in the league in 3-4 years.
2. Aldridge He’ll be the perfect compliment to Oden.
3. Roy nuff said
4. Bayless the perfect compliment to Roy
5 Batum Will be Pippen esque in 3-4 years.
6. Rudy Will be extremely dangerous once he get’s comfortable in a year or two.
Oden vs Howard
Howard is gonna be tough to dethrone. I won’t be too sad if Oden only becomes number 2 center in NBA behind Dwight in the years to come.
Depends on what you Get Back
All this talk about dump this guy and dump that guy is pointless unless you get something back that is better.
Who can you get that is better than Aldridge is going to be in 2 years? Would you take a veteran like Nowitski? Does that make the team better, and for how long? Would Nowitski get the same numbers on this team as he gets in Dallas?
What available point guards are better than Blake (now) or Bayless (future)? I don’t see a very good crop out there. If Bayless was playing for Memphis he’d probably look like an all-star. How about Telfair for Blake? He’s probably available. Not me.
I’m not saying keep everybody, but there has to be better talent coming back or you are moving backwards.
Yup
That’s what I’m counting on – KP being hip enough to only make a trade if it really benefits the team.
It’s hard to see him making much of a deal during this season, unless he wants to address the three power forwards that sit on the end of the bench and make some kind of a deal with them. – Elgin
If you smile at me I will understand, because that is something everybody everywhere does in the same language. - Crosby/Stills/Kantner
My Six
1. Roy – The old healthy one! Not the one I saw last night ;) Great player with a great feel for the game! I don’t ever think he will make it to the elite (kobe, lebron, dwade) but I think he is still great and a worthy corner stone for the blazers to build upon. oh and don’t forget clutch! He is in the elite in that category.
2. Oden – Give him time and I think he will be a great player! Maybe not as great as the hype but still an all star!
3. Lma – Other teams seem to love this guy, So do I when he plays aggressive and crashes the boards! a ton of trade value…yes but I just don’t think I could do it.
4. Bayless – One thing I hate is when the offense is stagnant! When lma isn’t hitting his jumper, roy is waiting for the fourth, and rudy is missing his 3 ball! Everyone is just in auto drive. Thats when you send this guy in and tell him to attack! In all seriousness this guy just keeps getting better and better! He has been letting the game come to him and has been starting to look comfortable. He has even hit a few jumpers and I think that will continue. (i think a lot of the earlier misses were nerves!) He still has a lot to learn but his Defense as far as staying in front of his man has been great! Ask D. Harris. (you know what I mean if you watched the very end of the nets game). The selling point for me though is his desire. I do not know of this first hand but if everything I hear is true this guy is one of those guys you have to kick out of the gym. A guy with that kind of drive will never stop improving and thus I cannot see him going anywhere! I think that trait is underrated! A lot of people are picking priz because of toughness and attitude…. why not bayless because of his competitiveness, work ethic, desire?
5. Batum – A guy who can have an impact without the ball in his hands is hard to replace so I say we don’t. I see a lot more potential with the ball in his hands also. From what I have seen (very little) it seems like he could become decent at attacking the basket. his 3pt shooting has been a nice surprise also. whats not to like!
6. Rudy or Priz??? I will go Rudy! This guy has lots of flair and he is one of my favorite blazers. His shooting has been a little streaky but when he is on he is on! Once he develops a mid range shot and better penetration he will be awesome and will get even better looks from distance.
Priz would be my next guy! He is great and I think he will be in Portland for a long time. I think he is happy with his role. I think the blazers really appropriate what he does!
If Webster comes back and is lights out from 3 does that take away from Rudy value on the team?
The Future
1. Roy
2. Aldridge
3. Oden
4. Batum
5. Rudy
6. Pryzbilla/Bayless
Starting
C. Oden
PF. Aldridge
SF. Batum
SG. Roy
PG. Blake/Bayless
2nd team
C. Pryzbilla
PF. ?
SF. Webster
SG. Rudy
PG. Blake/Bayless
Outlaw/Sergio we need to trade them or something, they dont fit well with our team. we need to get a POWER forward in return (maybe a brandon Bass from dallas)
Outlaw has a lot of value, and is decent on our team right now.. but for the Future???
Are you tallying these, Dave?
Roy
LMA
Oden
Rudy
Joel – even when Oden starts being consistent we still need a backup
Blake – until we actually have someone who consistently plays better ; then he’s a great backup
The only one that’s hard for me to leave off is Nic but I’m not sure who goes so he can stay.
"Complaining does not work as a strategy. We all have finite time and energy. Any time we spend whining is unlikely to help us achieve our goals. And it won't make us happier." - Randy Pausch.
Gulp
Roy
Oden
Aldridge
Rudy
Bayless
Przybilla
Batum is probably more valuable than Przybilla long-term, but Joel is such a good fit as a backup big man, I’d rather keep him.
Hmmm.
It’s really difficult, trying to decide between Nic and Martell.
I know that Bayless, Roy, Aldridge, Oden, and Rudy are definite keepers.
But Nic and Martell?
I think I’ll go Nic, as he has the potential to guard the Kobes, LeBrons, Wades, and Grangers of the world.
Bayless, Roy, Batum, Aldridge, Oden. Most athletic lineup in the league?
?!?!?
Lumping Granger in with Kobe/LBJ/Wade. The guy is having a good year, but let’s not get too silly.
I was mentioning the two best SGs and two best SFs
Have you seen Granger play this year? He is the second best small forward in the league, short only of LeBron.
But it's also the position that Nicolas will be asked to guard much of the time
I was merely bringing up premier wing players that Nicolas will end up having to guard… didn’t mean to put Granger in the same class as LeBron.
mine
I’m assuming you have to discount blockbuster trades. Anyone outside of Roy really could potentially be moved for the right price back, which technically means you can leave them off your list. But for the sake of this argument, I think we need to remove that variable from the conversation and look at it like there was an upcoming expansion draft and you can only protect 6 guys to build our core going forward. In that case, Roy, Oden, and LMA are pretty much no brainers, so the question become which 3 others do you add to the list. The contenders:
Joel
Travis
Batum
Webster
Fernandez
Bayless
Sergio
Blake
I throw out Blake, Sergio and Travis first, because they are probably the most easily replaceable guys and I think we pretty much know their potentials at this point. That leaves 5 guys for 3 spots. I think Rudy has to get one of them based on talent and versatility alone, and he is already somewhat proven. Bayless and Batum are the potential guys that you aren’t quite sure on yet. Joel is the proven dependable quality defensive big man, which is a hard spot to fill. Martel is the big question mark. I wish he hadn’t gotten injured, because I really felt like this was the year we needed to figure out what he brings to the table. so to me, he’s kind of still a big question mark. I think you have to keep Batum because his prototypical body and the flashes he has shown are too much to ignore. That leaves Bayless, Martel, and Joel duking it out for the final spot. do you go potential with Bayless or Martel, or the known quantity big man in Joel? Tough call. I think I’m going to go with Joel right now because I think Bayless is a SG in a PG body, which usually doesn’t work out to well, and Martel has had 3 years and while showing progress, hasn’t really nailed it down.
so, my 6 are:
Roy
Oden
Aldridge
Joel
Rudy
Batum
Rule #1 of nitpicking is to get it right.
keep at all cost
Roy
Oden
Bayless – one of 3 guys on the team that can create his own shot. not afraid to take it to the hole.
Keep unless we can get anything better
LA – He needs to play more effectively with Oden and get more rebound.
Trout – an earlier post said. Yeah he can win games by himself, but he will lose a lot more. Well, how many guys on our team can win games by himself? Everybody can lose games. One of the 3 guys.
Web -
Want to keep these guys too
Rudy, Pyz, Batum, Blake
Keepers
Mine:
1. Roy
2. Aldridge
3. Oden
4. Rudy
5. Batum
6. Bayless
The focus for me is two or three years from now. I don’t think we should give up on any of these players because of what they are or could be down the road.
I hated leaving Pryz of the list, he’s been great for us. Blake’s been glue too…
Yes please compile the lists.
by The Mallorcan Rocket on Jan 22, 2009 12:47 PM PST reply actions
Keepers
Quite simply I’m going to keep the starting lineup for the future and the 6th man…
PG: Bayless
SG: Roy
SF: Batum
PF: Aldridge
C: Oden
6th: Fernandez
Now, if I can bend the rules a bit, I’ll pick the rest of our rotation as well: Webster, Pryzbilla, Blake.
Now fill up the roster with young prospects to replace Blake and Pryzbilla once they get too old and we’re set for a decade of title contention.
Line-up
1.ROY- Our Superstar
2.Oden- Still developing, and popular to national media.
3.Rudy- Man Crush……
4.LMA – Good starter and still great upside “potentially”
5.Batum(shakalaka)- Young and good “role player”.
6.Bayless- good potential, tough, obsession with Raptors…..
Dan in Troutdale (US American)
KP on 2008 draft, "They've shown extraordinary intelligence, even problem-solving. Especially the big one. We bred eight originally, but when Jerryd came in he took over the pride and killed all but two of the others. That one... when he looks at you, you can tell he's working things out."
by Here come the men in black on Jan 22, 2009 1:12 PM PST reply actions
Line-up
1.ROY- Our Superstar
2.Oden- Still developing, and popular to national media.
3.Rudy- Man Crush……
4.LMA – Good starter and still great upside “potentially”
5.Batum(shakalaka)- Young and good “role player”.
6.Bayless- good potential, tough, obsession with Raptors…..
Dan in Troutdale (US American)
KP on 2008 draft, "They've shown extraordinary intelligence, even problem-solving. Especially the big one. We bred eight originally, but when Jerryd came in he took over the pride and killed all but two of the others. That one... when he looks at you, you can tell he's working things out."
by Here come the men in black on Jan 22, 2009 1:12 PM PST reply actions
Keepers ??
Only SIX Dave ?
1. GO – A future perrenial All-Star in the
Shaq mode. High FG %, Monster on
the boards, physical defensive domination.
He will post, draw the double and find the
open shooter. *
2. BRoy – Do it all, but needs help. When this team
gels, he’s a triple-double threat every time out.
Can breakdown most players off the dribble, but
still needs finishers to free up drives. Can D up
when needed. He hiked the shorts against LBJ
and looked good before the screens. *
3. Smooth – Prototypical 6’11" long athletic PF. Very fast up
and down, great TOR jumper, good and improving
post game and very good trapping & perimeter defender.
Good offensive rebounder who will get better as GO
and Martell spread the floor.
4. 3M – Injured and out for ???, but has the NBA chiseled body
to match up with strong athletic wings. Great shooter
with continued improvement in consistancy. Ability to
move without the ball to become deadly catch & shoot
wing, but has worked to improve ball handling to attack
the rim. Rebounding and defense have improved and
the work ethic and desire have improved to allow him to
reach some lofty goals. Team player ! *
5. BRex – Great athleticism & strength. Attacking / aggressive driver
with unbelieveable work ethic and determination. Early in
his career, but all the seeds are there in his arsenal. Ability
to guard most perimeter players and can get to the rim/draw
the foul. Needs experience and improved ability to direct
offense and plays, but BRoy and BRex will be able to create &
draw the double to open shots for teammates.
6. Rudy – I like Rudy’s game. At the Fan Fest, he reminded me of a
poor man’s Pistol Pete. Very good ballhandler, creative passer
and great BBIQ. Great spot up 3 shooter, good step back 3’s
and can slash to the bucket in spots. Below average one on one
defender, but good team and passing lane defender. Scrappy
rebounder with some big game carooms, but needs more
strength and time to flourish.
Others – Sorry Dave, but 7. Joel P. – Mr Lunchpail (Comes to WORK !),
8. Batuuuuuum – Developing defensive presence and scrappy
player 9. Blake – Steady force, great 3 and spot up shooter and
very good decision making / Assist to TO. and . . .
10. Travis Outlaw – He drive me crazy 1/2 the time, but can hit
big shots, has improved his spot up 3 (greatly), very young
and when he decides to go to the basket / rebound he’s in the
mix !
- - If healthy.
It's GO time !
It's not what we want that matters.
It’s about the kind of team Nate wants the Blazers to be and which players on the current team best fit that kind of team.
Brandon, Greg, Nic, Joel, Steve, and Jerryd fit best on a Nate McMillan team.
LaMarcus, Travis, Sergio, Rudy, and Channing fit better on a Mike D’Antoni team.
I haven’t seen Martell play in so long that I can’t decide in which group to put him, but I think Nic is a better fit than Martell.
My core six are the guys that fit best in the kind of style Nate likes best.
My 6 keepers are very familiar looking
1: Roy. He’s just so versatile on the court, a phenomenal leader (on and off), plays the game the right way, and I firmly believe he have a career that equals, and is just as beloved as, Clyde the Glide
2: Aldridge. Big, athletic, PFs with such a nice mid-range game don’t come along that often, and are not that easy to replace. What’s most impressive to me is that he’s NOT just a scoring, rebounding big – he gets the odd steal and block night in and night out. Yeah, I’d like to see him put on a bit more muscle so he can bang with the Gasol’s, Camby’s, KGs, and Boozer’s of the league – but often that added mass comes with a price (e.g. loss in quickness), and his mid-range jumper opens up the basket for slashers and strong low-post players
3: Fernandez. I think this guy plays smart, fast basketball and as his experience and confidence grows he could be a cold-blooded assassin when it comes to scoring. He’s a creative playmaker, who seems to have greater physical tools than a player like Ginobili – I can see Rudy as OWNING the 6th man of the year award as he grows and develops.
4: Oden. This guys game has been talked to death. “He’s a bust”, “he just needs time”, “he’s coming off injury”, “he hasn’t been injured for months so that’s no excuse”, “he is too serious”, “he’s not serious enough”…it’s almost like nobody can just look objectively at what he’s doing now, or what he can become. Based on potential alone, we have to stick with Oden. I know stats aren’t the end all, be all of a player’s worth, but even if it takes him 2-3 years, and all he does is develop into a 15ppg, 10rpg, 2 apg, 1.8bpg player, it would be almost impossible to replace a big, strong, 7 footer in the middle. And if he can do that (or more) it will open up the game for Aldridge, Roy, and the whole team.
5: Bayless; His head seems to be on right, and has blistering speed, and a knack for getting to the basket – as a backcourt mate he could take so much pressure off Roy, allowing Brandon to reach even higher heights. I also love the tough, cocky, “chip on his shoulder” (though ever stopping to disrespect) attitude that Bayless brings. I think it is so useful to have that “junkyard dog” scrapper on a team as you get into the playoffs – and when that player has the skills and talents that Bayless has, that makes him even more valuable.
6: Batum. To be honest, I could possibly part with Batum – but it would have to be for something really special. He’s so young, and already has such a nose for the defensive game, that I think he could be a remarkable role player on almost any team.
I’d hate to see Fry go, but mostly because of how much I like him as a person. I actually think his skills are way underrated – but unfortunately way too similar to Aldridge’s. I think there could be an increased role for Frye on this team, but I almost want to see him go so that he can flourish and live up to his potential. I really think that on a different team he could put up as good a numbers as LaMarcus is giving us right now.
Martell vs. Batum
I think the real issue is who the keeper is at the 3. I can’t believe everyone is writting off Martell. Offensively, he’s 10 times the player and at least an equal defensively. If you haven’t noticed his body lately, it’s ripped. He’d kill Batum one on one. Wait until he comes back and gets into game shape. Batum will be riding the pine.
You may be right
I kept Batum but it was a hard choice. You are certainly correct that this is the real question.
The think about Martell is, in the last couple of years we’ve seen steady improvement but not great improvement. Was this his breakout year? I think it was. What happens to a young player when his breakout year gets zapped by injuries before it even starts? Will he regain the confidence? When he comes back, will he have a killer mindset or an “I was really only a journeyman” mindset?
What happens to his confidence when he comes back and struggles for the first 15 games (which is likely)?
He was in great condition. When he comes back, he won’t be, no matter how hard he’s working now. It’s going to be different.
I hope and still think that Martell is going to be absolutely great for us. But I see no guarantees on that. And I can guarantee that Nic is going to be very solid for us, because the holes in his game are fairly easy areas to improve. And Nic is going to be a better defender than Martell. He may still make some rookie mistakes on defense, but he has the motivation and the quickness — and he has that phenomenal wingspan.
I expect we keep both.
I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.
My future Blazer All-Star squad consists of
1)Darius Miles
2) The Finnish guy
3) Ike “PS3 All-Star” Diogu
4) Joel Freeland
5) Shavlik
6) Channing Frye (Because off his blog)
Everyone else is just spare parts
My bad....
Can’t forget the Franchise. All BEdgers want a veteran pg to put us over the top and we could have had him this whole time!!!!
I throw off the yoke of Dave's oppressive rules
Because there are more keepers than six.
Roy, Oden, LMA, Zilla — duh
Okay, why keep Prizbilla with Oden around? Cause he is one of the ten best centers in the league and he can move to PF for minutes if need be. If we did trade the guy down the road it would be reluctantly and only because some team is giving us the world in exchange.
Batuum – you can’t let this go. He’s got more upside than… Well he’s a defense playing, offensive develop’n, budding super cog in the wheels’ of our champtionships. And besides he’s French. Once he’s married to Sophia then I can swoop in and steal his harem. I dig French girls.
Rudy – He’s Rudy. He would have to go out of my six if I had to pick but my heart would break and I don’t go around braking hearts.
Bayless – We’re starting to see what he can do and it looks like he can do everything. He won’t rest til he’s an all-star. Still he gave me a dirty look so I’ll put him on the strait across for LeBron list.
Okay, if I stick to the six I have to keep Martell. Sure he’s only played one game and has been somewhat inconsistant over first few years of his play but he’s about to break out huge and he’s got the skills and the body and the demeaner to excell.
Sergio… I love him and his game. Or rather I would love his game if he was free to play it. When he attacks, amazing happens. He has shown that he can do the slow up and dribble about and pass around the outside for 15 seconds that our coach seems to like but when he is released to run and penitrate then… It’s going to come down to Rudy or Nate.
Blake is a great NBA point guard. Solid and does everything well but nothing next level. I think he could be a starting point guard on a champ team with a loaded team.
But it all ain’t going to matter and yes I’m going to beat a dead horse (we dont’ have to argue about it on this over loaded forum) but we arn’t going to win any rings with our current coaching staff. We got the horses, but the jockey is over his head.
That’s my 2 cents.
just think of it as the lineup of the future
jbay
broy
webster
LMA
GO
6th
Rudy
Stopper
Nic
sorry i went one over but the rest could be traded and i think we’d be fine
ps. Joel would be great down low but is replaceable due to his lack of offense
by blackandwite323 on Jan 22, 2009 3:39 PM PST reply actions
To Maximize both the present and the future...
Here’s the five (we don’t have or need six):
1. B Roy – ‘nuff said
2. Oden – current man-child and future supreme ruler of the paint
3. Joel – in case future supreme ruler of the paint gets hurt or tired.
4. Rudy – The perpetual energizer and X-factor
5. Nic – gotta have the 3’s and the D.
EVERYONE else is replaceable and many should be replaced. Including Outlaw, Frye, and Webster.
heh heh
that was a very humorous comment.
i like your ideas and reasons.
by ireallylikejerrydbayless on Jan 22, 2009 4:19 PM PST up reply actions
Production
So far, the following blazers this season have the best production and will probably continue to justify investment going forward:
1. Joel Przybilla: He is a rebound machine and the most productive blazer whenever he’s on the floor.
2. Brandon Roy: Unquestioned leader and the most talented player on the team
3. Rudy Fernandez: Most efficient shooter and a deep scoring threat
4. Steve Blake: Best PG on the team right now, period. He can distribute and score.
5. Greg Oden: When he figures out how to not get fouled and when our guards figure out how to feed him the ball in the post, he’ll be a force in the league
6. Nicolas Batum: Good defender and doesn’t need plays called for him while having potential to be as good as Prince.
I know everyone goes gaga over LaMarcus and he is indeed very good at taking shots from the field, blocking shots and avoiding turnovers, but he’s below average on the boards, doesn’t get many assists and doesn’t get to the free throw line. This is a perfect time to ship him and get someone more valuable in return.
OH JEESH I'M NOT A VERY INSIGHTFUL PERSON
1. Roy – because he’s BRANDON ROY
2. Aldridge – because he’s dependable
3. Batum – he’s good :]
4. Bayless – because I have a crush on him!
5. Fernandez – because I like his accent
6. Oden – JAM. Except, um Oden is combined with Pryzbilla ok.
by ireallylikejerrydbayless on Jan 22, 2009 4:16 PM PST reply actions
except um.
I don’t want to lose anyone. I just want them to keep working at it.
by ireallylikejerrydbayless on Jan 22, 2009 4:17 PM PST up reply actions
Keepers
BRoy, Rudy, JBay, Oden, LA, Batum. These guys hustle and some have poise with a side of killer instinct. What’s not to like? Dave, I does bug me to leave out Joel. Why not seven! LOL Go Blazers!
Roy
LaMarcus
Oden
Rudy
Batum
Martell
note: close between Bayless and Webster. I’m giving Martell the nod because:
1) Size – I like 6’ 8" over 6’ 3"
2) Potential – I think Martell has the potential to be every bit as fantastic a player as Roy, Aldridge and Oden. Jerryd will be really good, but Martell could be outstanding.
3) I don’t like a guy getting short changed because of injury. We haven’t been able to see Webster this year, so we are forgetting just what he brings.
hakkaa päälle !
Ghostdog's picks.
I’m choosing my six based purely on who from the team I will be hanging out with in the future. I figure I’m about the same age as most of the team, and I enjoy playing basketball, so it’s bound to happen eventually.
1. Channing – Because he’s quite possibly the chillest dude ever made. We have a lot in common, too. Future BFF.
2. Greg – Another big goofy dude. With Greg the good times never end (except during a game when he’s depressed, and doesn’t want anyone to pass the ball to him.)
3. Rudy – Guitar skillz; dunking skillz; Spanish speaking skillz; to name a few of his skillz. Also, he’d probably bring over tons of ladies, and I like tons of ladies.
4. Shav – One word: “ROCKY!”
5. Ike – Two words: “ROCKY-ROAD!” (ice cream). You gotta have a snack-man in your crew.
6.Raef – There always seems to be that older guy who still hangs around, dropping by every now and then, to impart some worldly wisdom. Like a sagely wizard.
6.5 Martell – He’s been injured so far this season, so I cannot give an accurate assessment of him, because I refuse to hang out with injured people. However, if he was physically healthy I would definitely take him, ’cause the dude can dance!
Honorable mention… Jarrett Jack – Ah, how we miss your funny jokes during interviews last season : (
" the project of Portland brings me good sensations..."
- Rudy Fernandez
translated by animart1
Big 3+3
I started referring to them as the Big 3+1 (Rudy) watching preseason. Then Prz did his lunchpail best. And the glimpses of Batum (even in preseason) as a smooth, multi-skilled player very early in his development … well, it’s not a tough call.
Roy, Aldridge, Oden, Prz, Batum, Fernandez
In other words, the other 3-4 rotation players need to be defined ASAP. They must walk through fire and run through walls.
You are correct Dave,
This is the “six pack” the Blazers must keep refridgerated.
Bayless is the one I cringe about letting get too warm though. The ferocity with which he plays combined with his untapped yet obvious skill set should beg to us to opt for the cold frosted keg instead. May I have another, just one more I promise please?
The Oden Era, Day 580
Here we go
1) Roy, the most obvious choice. He’s an all-star and the heart and soul of the blazers.
2) LMA, He’s young, athletic, and one of the best young big men in the game.
3) Greg, He has shown flashes. Far to soon to give up on the big guy. He just turned 21 today so give him some time and he will be a presence in the post.
4)Rudy, gives the blazers some much needed outside shooting. I think he will be their ideal sixth man.
5)B-Rex, He is starting to get comfortable playing in the NBA and is proving that he can play. Should be a good complement to Roy.
6) Webster, provides them with outside shooting on the first unit. If he can imporve his D he will be the perfect fit at the 3. I think people are forgetting about him since he has been hurt all year.
Is there a time frame on keepers, Dave?
Roy
Oden
LMA
Rudy
B-Rex
Joel if 3-4 years, Martell if 10 years
I don’t get all the Batum love, I think he has potential, but I think he will be more like Posey than Pippen/Prince. I think KP could sign a Battier/Posey MLE free agent once we start winning more and playing at an elite level.
Well, I could be wrong, but I believe diversity is an old, old wooden ship that was used during the Civil War era.
I would take Nic as our Posey, but I think he has more potential
Who is Martell’s ceiling? I I have no idea. If he improved his ball handling and driving from last season, he could be much more dangerous. But last year he was most similar in style to Sasha Vujacic, which isn’t saying a lot.
Shawn Elliot pre injury
Obscure pull since his career got hurt by an injury. The two years before his injury he averaged 20 a game with 40% 3 point shooting and IIRC his defense was solid. He could hit the 3 and put the ball on the floor. Of course then he got hurt, played 40 games a year, and really only was fantastic against us!
Webster won’t average 20 a game for us, but Elliot wouldn’t have either if he was on a deep of this depth.
starting 5 plus 6th man keepers
PG- Bayless (unless we can get rubio in the draft… imagine ricky and rudy together in the nba)
SG- Roy
SF- this ones tricky i dont think any of our wing’s are keepers, unless were still counting rudy as a 3… if he is, rudy if not… shawn marion ……..
PF- LMA
C- Oden
6- if we dont get ricky or matrix, 6th man would be joel, he’s the perfect mentor to oden.
bayless
awful shot, bad court awareness, overrated defense, needs the ball to make plays therefor taking it away from brandon roy, id like to see him traded. not a fan
roy
aldridge
fernandez
rodriguez
pryzbilla
batum
(should have drafted kevin durant)
Mine
Probably already out there…. not too controversial
1) Brandon Roy – I mean…come on.
2) Greg Oden – I know, I know. I have faith.
3) Jerryd Bayless – I see future all-star.
4) Martell Webster – I think he’ll recover and then some.
5) LaMarcus Alderidge – he needs to work on post moves. We need to keep him.
6) Nicholas Batum – If he had feathers in his arms he could fly.
I have my P.h.D in unreliable hyperbole.
by Eat Politicians on Jan 23, 2009 7:51 PM PST reply actions
Honorable Mentions For:
Steve Blake – The only bona fide Champion on the team
Joel Przybilla – Does the dirty work (but I wish he had a little more Bill Lambier in him)
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