Game 41 Recap: Blazers 102, Bucks 85
General Observations
The Blazers won this game just like they were supposed to. Milwaukee came into the contest short of frontcourt players and Portland got plenty of attempts up through their big men. This is the first game I can remember where both Greg Oden and Lamarcus Aldridge took as many shots as Brandon Roy. The Bucks couldn't do anything to handle Oden inside and really their power forwards couldn't harass Aldridge on the perimeter either. Between those two the Blazers picked up 17 foul shots, ending up with a 34-18 free throw attempt advantage. This from a pair that averages 7 total free throws per game.
Portland also dominated the glass. Actually they more than dominated, earning an incredible 58-30 advantage on a night when the disparity between shots missed was only 3. Oden was a huge factor here too, but the Blazers also got into their Milwaukee counterparts across the board. 6 out of the 9 Blazers who played tonight had 6 or more rebounds and none of those 6 was Joel Przybilla. Had the Blazers achieved those kinds of team-wide rebounding results every game they would be 4-5 games farther ahead in the standings. Milwaukee just got outworked tonight and didn't seem inclined to do much about it.
Early on turnovers were a problem for the Blazers...unsurprising as this is a Bucks specialty. But Portland really corralled themselves in the second half and ended up executing efficiently and with relatively few costly mistakes. This was about the only prayer the Bucks had of getting back through the back door. The screen was locked though.
The point guard play was less spectacular tonight but the team didn't necessarily depend on a given individual to share the ball or set the offense. We saw a lot of guys looking for each other. Because of the multi-pronged offensive threat Milwaukee couldn't keep their rotations straight which left a lot of guys open after the initial attack. Every non-center who played had at least 1 assist. Lamarcus Aldridge had 5 and each of the starting guards 7.
While the Milwaukee starting forwards pounded us in return (Richard Jefferson and Charlie Villanueva each had 23) Michael Redd had an uncharacteristically off night despite being left open several times. The Olympian finished 6-14 but only 1-5 from three-point range for 13 points. The rest of the Bucks only scored 26 points combined.
In short, this was a night when Milwaukee was stretched too thin in their roster, in their coverage, and in their ability to produce points. Despite them giving it a decent try Portland just overwhelmed them and walked away happy.
Individual Notes
Brandon Roy never got it rolling offensively tonight but the big man production meant he didn't really need to. Still he looks like a shadow of the Brandon we're used to seeing and I wouldn't be horribly surprised to hear a report that he's dealing with some kind of nagging injury. He shot 4-13, joined the assist and rebound party with 7 and 6 respectively, and scored 9. Considering Redd's 13 it just wasn't the night for star off-guards apparently. Or maybe they both defended each other extremely well. (It just wasn't the night for star off-guards.)
Lamarcus Aldridge played as controlled of a game as I've seen him play in a while. He never really took a bad shot, he drew 6 free throws to go along with his 13 attempts, he shot over 61% from the floor and was perfect from the line, plus he notched 9 rebounds and 5 assists. (I'm telling you, everybody filled up the stat line like they were Brandon Roy tonight.) Lamarcus is one of those guys who plays very well when he's not under pressure. You'd love to see him transfer some of this calm competence to games when the heat is on him and he needs to perform.
Speaking of those guys...Greg Oden had an eye-popping statistical game. 9-14 shooting, 6-11 from the foul line, 15 rebounds, 2 steals, 2 blocks, only 2 personal fouls, and a game-high 24 points. The formula wasn't that difficult. He just hulked over everyone who came against him. He either posted or cut down into the lane and made himself available and once he caught the ball nobody could stop him. His best play of the night was a one-handed grab of a difficult pass in traffic with about 5:00 left in the third quarter. He snagged the ball out of the air with a huge mitt and wheeled for the hook shot finish. Rewind to that play if you want to see why he's going to be really special. However also keep in mind that this game was against no serious opposition, either defending him or for him to defend. He could afford to relax and when he relaxes he's lighter on his feet, more comfortable, and his production goes through the roof. We need to see these games more consistently. We also need to see them against quality big men. Greg is capable of doing that and will in time. But his time isn't here yet until he can bring it every night...not necessarily 24 and 15, but a high energy, effective game like he had tonight.
One of the huge things about Oden's game tonight was the lack of fouls. Frankly he was in position to commit a few. He got out on the perimeter plenty of times on defense and you know nothing good comes of that. But it looked like he made a conscious effort to give up a bucket or two when he was beat instead of trying for the block and hacking the guy. He got his 2 blocks anyway. The Bucks did score a few points but Greg got those points back with interest. You'll seldom hear me encouraging any player to be selfish on the court but in Greg's case I'll make an exception for now. He needs to stay home on defense, realize that he's not doing any good trying to pick up shooting guards 20 feet from the basket, and when he's stuck against a smaller guy driving he just needs to let it go even if the result is two points. In fact I wouldn't mind him calling out the smaller defenders a little more, making a point that this is YOUR man and you just let him loose. Eventually Greg will be a stopper in that situation but right now it's killing his game trying to protect theirs. The flip side is that when he does go out to help with screens and such he has to get there quicker and defend more actively before the dribbler is past the play. But as long as he's making that effort I have no problem with him refusing to help out so much until his game is more established. He's a rookie. He's important to this team. The smaller men and coaches need to protect him a little better for now.
Nicolas Batum deserves mention as another guy who gave a lot of effort on the court. He kind of set the tone early by flying around on defense and rebounding. He ended the game with 8 boards and 2 steals in 22 minutes. I've said this before, but I really think the Blazers are going to have to retool their offense a little in the off-season, getting the small forwards more opportunity to put the ball on the floor. Not that Batum deserves a place in the offense equal to the Big Three, but he can be more of a threat than he's showing by standing in the corner spotting up for three. Eventually we're going to value his energy and defense so we need to accentuate his driving ability a little more to make his time on the floor more productive.
Travis Outlaw took full advantage of the Bucks' frazzled defense, making 5 of 10 field goals and exploiting their rotations to the tune of 7-9 from the free throw line. He also contributed to the rebounding with 8. (The more of these rebounding stats I type the more it becomes clear that we just destroyed the Bucks at every position.) His 18 points wasn't only a game high for bench players, it was more than the Bucks' bench scored combined. He wasn't terribly effective in stopping his counterparts.
Rudy Fernandez showed off some trick shooting tonight, proving that his best moves off of the dribble are ones that end with him leaning at no less than a 30-degree angle. His shot was on and he hit 6-9, though only 1-4 from the three-point line. It was nice to see him get an opportunity to explore more options than the three and actually convert.
Sergio Rodriguez did a good job managing the offense. This was one of those games where the ball spent a lot of time in other people's hands but Sergio put it there often enough with 7 assists. He also had 7 rebounds in the 34 minutes he played. As Mike Barrett mentioned about 700 times, we still need Blake back. The containment and offensive threat just aren't the same.
Jerryd Bayless played another pretty well-rounded game, choosing his spots to attack and even getting a sweet pass to the corner off of a drive for a three. The highlight of his game was the 6 free throws he drew. He hit a three too. As Mike Barrett mentioned about 700 times, we still need Blake back. The offensive set-ups just aren't the same.
Joel Przybilla got 13 minutes on Oden's Big Night and had trouble catching and finishing the ball like pre-2008-09 Joel. He grabbed 2 rebounds and blocked a shot. It wasn't a huge night for interior threats so he didn't get to affect the game as much as usual.
Final Thoughts
This game felt like a warm-up for Wednesday. Unfortunately the Cavaliers got thumped by the L*kers tonight so they'll be loaded for bear. If we can keep this kind of team effort plus get Roy back on track it should be an interesting contest. So far so good for this (mostly) homestand.
Check out the Milwaukee impressions at BrewHoop.
Check out the scores from tonight's game (including one spectacular one) and enter Wednesday's form here.
--Dave (blazersub@yahoo.com)
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i heard in the pregame about wallys world for redd.
anyone know some info on this? i haven’t really heard much about it before.
For financial reasons, it's been thought that the Milwaukee Bucks might try to trade Michael Redd ...
Dan Gadzuric, and Charlie Bell to the Cleveland Cavaliers for Wally Szczerbiak, Eric Snow, and Lorenzen Wright. Since Szczerbiak, Snow, and Wright all have expiring contracts — while Redd, Gadzuric, and Bell are all under contract through the next couple of seasons — the Bucks would shave off a lot of money in guaranteed salaries come this summer.
As much as Cleveland might want a guy like Redd this year
they can’t give up flexibility in 2010. Redd’s contract simply runs too long to be an option for Cleveland. They need to go after Mike Miller whom IMO would be just as good an overall player.
I wholeheartedly agree with you on that.
http://www.blazersedge.com/2008/11/27/674400/rudy-sergio-batum-rlec-for#10310623
Then again, I’m an unabashed fan of Mike Miller
why?
last week i was reading how in minnesota theyre unhappy because when given open looks, miller’s reluctant to shoot, and when he does shoot, hes not shooting well. particularly in any kind of close game.
ignacio
Miller is playing the wait out game
he has no business being on a team like the T’Wolves and he knows it.
wow. That's like getting Redd for free.
If you smile at me I will understand, because that is something everybody everywhere does in the same language. - Crosby/Stills/Kantner
Here's something interesting from the Bucks' pregame analysis...
Strange stats. We always note three advanced stats (offensive efficiency, defensive efficiency and pace) in our previews. This is a most excellent occasion to reexplain what they mean, because Portland provides a prime (and extreme) example of why basic/straight stats are misleading. Offensive efficiency refers to the number of points a team scores per 100 possessions. You’ll notice that Portland scores an underwhelming 97.9 points per game, 17th in the NBA (and right behind Milwaukee) using the basic stat. But, they are the 2nd most efficient offensive team in the NBA. Why? Because offensive efficiency controls for pace. Portland is 30th in pace, meaning they average fewer possessions per game (85.9) than any other team. As such, because they don’t have many scoring chances by virtue of their slow pace, they don’t score many points. Don’t be fooled though, Portland is a premier offensive club. [Think of it this way: a baseball player who reaches base 10 out of 25 times (.400) is better (more efficient) than the hitter who goes 12-55 (.218), despite reaching base fewer times overall, right? It’s all about the number of opportunities.] Same thing with these basketball stats. You can apply the same logic to defensive efficiency, of course. The Blazers are 9th in the NBA, allowing only 95.3 points per game. This time, Portland is overvalued rather than undervalued because of their slow pace; they are actually only 24th in defensive efficiency.
"Now with a non-provocative footer!"
by timbo on Jan 19, 2009 11:56 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
Very good explanation
"...we have so many experts who think that you have to play defense, you have to rebound, you have to be a possession coach, you have to execute. I just laugh. Explosive offense is not as intimidating as dominant defense. But it is scary when you don't know how to stop someone." - George Karl, Nuggets coach
Definitely disagree with the point guard assessment.
This is the third straight game where PG has not been a problem. In one or two years what we have going out there right now will be better than Blake. Obviously the offensive is used to running with Blake out there, and the changeover takes time, but in the not too distant future, if it is so desired, Bayless running with the starters and Sergio with the 2nd unit is going to be preferable to Blake.
Sergio looked really good, for sure. Rex is a year or two off, but we all know that...
"Now with a non-provocative footer!"
I agree
Tonight was a good night at the PG sans Blake. Especially Sergio. Surprised Dave did not have more positive words for him. His managing the offense in the fourth quarter really had a good effect.
I was surprised by it too.
Sergio really did a nice of keeping the ball moving and finding ways of getting the ball to our big guys. If Joel would still have his pre-injury hands, there would have been a couple more nice assists for Surge. I thought it was one of his best games as a Blazer.
Brandon Roy just destroyed everything in his path. There's your rational analysis -- Dave
Dave can be a fan
of particular players, just like the rest of us are. That’s not a negative.
"...we have so many experts who think that you have to play defense, you have to rebound, you have to be a possession coach, you have to execute. I just laugh. Explosive offense is not as intimidating as dominant defense. But it is scary when you don't know how to stop someone." - George Karl, Nuggets coach
Not at all actually ....
have you listened to his podcasts and read some of his stuff here about how, at least for right now he thinks Bayless is pretty one dimensional. I was pleased to see him keeping a lid on all the irrational Bayless hype.
Brandon Roy just destroyed everything in his path. There's your rational analysis -- Dave
agreed
Dave is walking a fine line on the Bayless situation, trying to please all the people who want to hype him up while also giving a realistic view of his performance and current abilities.
"It's like, 'Urrrrrrgh!'" Rodriguez says, his cupped hands turning into fists. "It is a good feeling. Good feeling."
He does the same thing with Sergio.
I'm a Blazers fan and If you ban me from your blog, I'll sue you!
Please don't feed the trolls.
God forgives, tominhawaii doesn't.
He hasn't figured out
how to keep a lid on Tom, though.
I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.
he does indeed
Dave does a difficult job very, very well.
"It's like, 'Urrrrrrgh!'" Rodriguez says, his cupped hands turning into fists. "It is a good feeling. Good feeling."
Yeah, time to give props. Sergio did a very good job of managing the offense tonight. He showed a little weakness in his scoring but we all know that. Bayless looked okay and showed a little weakness running our offense and we all know that. It does look good for the future though.
This offense is still built for Blake though. Actually it’s built for Blake and Webster. It’s amazing to me that we are still winning without them when I think about how our offense is built for them. Just goes to show how talented all of our guys are.
by danielfarrell on Jan 20, 2009 4:24 AM PST up reply actions
Yep
Sure Sergio’s stat line didn’t look so amazing in the 2-9 shooting area, but all buts 2 of the misses were lay-ups around the basket, almost all of which were made with a big man at the rim with him and resulted in made baskets on that possession, plus he got slammed on one of those blocked shots with no call.
It was also interesting to see how in the 4th the game loosened up a little and Sergio loosened up with it and BAM, goodnight Bucks, hopefully Sergio can learn how to loosen up the game on his own insistence and get those easy baskets to come at will—that’s when he is at his best—opening up the floor, getting movement from his teammates and dropping dimes. Clearly the team offense with Sergio playing 35 minutes is different than with Blake, so you’d have to think after a few more games the fit with the starters will be a little more synergetic.
"It's like, 'Urrrrrrgh!'" Rodriguez says, his cupped hands turning into fists. "It is a good feeling. Good feeling."
whoah, hoss...
PG was not a problem tonight for two reasons:
1. Sergio did a good job distributing the ball and not turning it over.
2. Milwaukee does not have a strong interior presence, with Bogut out.
What Blake brings that Sergio and Bayless do not is the three point threat. This has been talked about a lot. Even when he’s not hot, he’s still good enough that his presence out there spreads the floor. With Sergio and/or Bayless in, there’s not reason not to sag down, prevent the drive, double the big men, and force outside shots. Which is what Charlotte did, which is why Okafor got so many blocks. But Milwaukee doesn’t have a big guy you can funnel the little guys down into. And we owned the post anyway.
So yeah, we didn’t need Blake against a team that doesn’t have a center. But how often will that happen? And in the playoffs? Never.
by LicketyBrindle on Jan 20, 2009 2:50 PM PST up reply actions
One thing nobody has really given Sergio much credit for was the play of Greg Oden....
Sergio makes big men better. I have said it forever, everyone knows magloirable wasnt booted out of the league following his season with us because Sergio did such a nice job of setting him up off the pick and roll. A young big like Greg is going to be energized by playing with a guy that is looking to get them the ball. We heard a lot of hype about the chemistry that Blake and Oden were developing this summer, but it has not translated onto the floor. Sergio already looks like he has better chemistry with Oden than either Blake or Roy(based on one game…ha!). He seems to always know where the big guy is. I remember at least one pick and roll where Sergio penetrated and Oden was open on the roll but the pass was covered. Sergio knew this and just flipped up an ugly shot towards the rim knowing that Oden had great position to get the board and score, which he did. It will be interesting to see if that chemistry carries over to the cavs game.
The flip side to this argument is that Sergio has not had good chemistry with Roy. Roy seems to get out of rhythm because of Sergio’s need to have the ball. They just don’t look like a cohesive backcourt right now. When Roy controls the ball, Sergio is basically rendered useless. When Sergio has the ball, Roy generally just stands around waiting for the kickout. The fact that they never play together makes this understandable but it is still something to watch for….
RUDY > MJ
by myemic23 on Jan 20, 2009 4:56 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
That's an excellent read on it myemic.
Brandon Roy just destroyed everything in his path. There's your rational analysis -- Dave
Sergio should be traded
Nate is never going to give him a chance. Even with Blake down, he’s giving more PT to Bayless.
Uh, yeah.
Actually, it appears to me that Nate is using Sergio and Bayless situationally. When we needed scoring out of the back court, Jerryd. When we want someone to be moving the ball, running the offense, trying to get the ball into the hands of the big men so they can eat the Bucks alive, Sergio.
Nice that we just had that poll about whether Greg would make his goal of averaging 10/10 this year. Wonder how many people voted he wouldn’t and regret it now….
Good to get this one out of the way. Sets the stage for a big game against Cleveland. They’ll be tough, but they have injuries, too.
Imagine what this team will be if Greg and LMA play like that, Travis gets 8 rebounds and 9 FTs in a game, and Brandon gets untracked, all at the same time.
I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.
Good news
Cleveland will be without their starting canter. I hope Greg eats Anderson Varejao alive.
"When I have the ball, I experiment." #5
by Sabonis4Ever on Jan 20, 2009 12:22 AM PST up reply actions
Z has been out a while
and now with West out, that sort of negates the Martell/Blake injuries.
The more short-handed they get, the more likely it is that LBJ will just try to carry them single-handedly. Hopefully we can keep him under 40.
I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.
Varejao will be tough for Greg
I’ve said this many times but nobody seems to get it— Varejao is the best defensive player on the best defensive team.
Boomshakalaka
He is a good defender because he is very active and fast for his position
That wont help him when Greg overpowers him and backs him down. As Mortimer always says “MALE DOMINANCE”
"When I have the ball, I experiment." #5
by Sabonis4Ever on Jan 20, 2009 1:21 AM PST up reply actions
Greg is certainly a lot stronger
Varejao is crafty though. Greg better be ready for Varejao to front him and deny him the ball as well as flop in attempt to draw charges.
Boomshakalaka
It will be an interesting matchup
Greg definitely has the size and strength to dominate him.
The key, IMO, is the kind of plays we run for Greg. The second, and perhaps biggest key, is if Varejao gets in foul trouble. After him, the cupboard is pretty bare.
I don’t see Lorenzen Wright being able to handle Greg. After him, you’re looking at Ben Wallace, I guess. That can’t be a very exciting prospect for the Cavs.
What that means is that Varejao may have to just surrender on some plays to avoid getting fouls.
I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.
Wallace used to be the only person in the league who could guard Shaq. He’s lost a bit but he still won’t be overpowered inside. If Wallace ends up on Greg then Greg better hope his little jump hook is falling.
by danielfarrell on Jan 20, 2009 4:27 AM PST up reply actions
Too slow, now, though
Strong but slow. Greg will be able to get position because he’s quicker, and is strong enough to hold position once he has it.
If we have a twin towers offensive threat, like we had against the Bucks, Cleveland is pretty short-handed inside, and can’t afford any foul trouble.
I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.
Not really
no one could guard shaq one on one. The reason Wallace looked so good in that series was that K*be flat out decided that he was sick of watching Shaq rack up finals MVPs and that he was going to win the series on his own. Wallace did a credible job against him when he got the ball, but it was a whole lot easier to guard shaq when he’s only touching the ball once every third trip. It’s easy to forget that in two of those games, Shaq put op 34+ on over 70% shooting. Heck, K*be attempted at least 4 more FGs than Shaq in every game but one in that series. Somehow I don’t remember that being due to Ben’s incredible ability to deny the entry pass.
Wallace was certainly in the top tier of Shaq defenders, for what it’s worth, but I think both Sabas, Divac, or even Robinson and Duncan. And now, he’s nowhere near as good defensively as he once was.
I was just talking to a co-worker about that series.
Detroit didn’t win it, the Lakers and Kobe lost it.
by MiledAnimal on Jan 20, 2009 10:38 AM PST up reply actions
Karl Malone and Gary Payton fit badly within the Triangle offense, while ...
the Los Angeles Lakers bench that season — which consisted of guys like Stanislav Medvedenko, Luke Walton, Rick Fox, Kareem Rush, Derek Fisher, et al. — was a mediocre second unit. Devean George was one of the worst starting small forwards in the NBA, too. Beyond Shaquille O’Neal and Kobe Bryant, that Lakers squad was combination of over-the-hill, washed-up has-beens — which included cameos from the likes of Horace Grant and Bryon Russell during the regular season — as well as lousy, subpar role players.
He's a legitimately great defensive player
but so is LeBron this year. We’ll learn this again (remember him on Roy at the end of last years game?) soon enough.
Oden defending on guards outside
Sounds like Nate wants Greg playing defense out there, according to Quick:
Because of the increased “emergencies”, the Blazers bigs have switched, matching them against guards or in the case of the Detroit game, forwards like Tayshaun Prince. The easy approach would be to have the bigs drop down and guard the paint, giving the ball handler a perimeter shot.
[snip]
With Oden, McMillan wants to engrain the concept of moving his feet early in his career. It may cost him some games now with foul trouble, but down the road, McMillan envisions it making Oden much more of a defensive weapon. Having Oden fall back, much like Shaquille O’Neal has done throughout his career, will only establish bad habits, McMillan thinks.
"I think Greg is a big who can be active, who can get up and guard and then drop back. The way we want him to start his career is by moving his feet. I want him to be more like an Alonzo Mourning type center – Patrick Ewing when he first came into the league. Active, able to jump out if we want to trap. Then trap and get back. Having him drop back – that’s the easy way. I want him to move.’’
Nice find.
I can’t help be reminded of the people who critize McMillan. It shows they don’t have a clue what being an NBA coach is about. They watch a game, see mistakes and think that since they “know better” than to allow this, it’s proof Nate is a poor coach. Meanwhile the real coach is thinking on a level that’s an order of magnitude or more above them.
hakkaa päälle !
I bet you dollars to doughtnuts
this will be one of those things that evolves over time. Not that Oden will never go out to trap and recover…all big men do that. But the basic premise of the Blazers’ defense will almost certainly evolve to keeping him in the middle, as it will entail more risk than the benefit it brings. Every once in a while the coaching staff has some experimental, “absolutely correct in theory, doesn’t quite work in actuality” schemes. This is one.
Ask yourself this: how many opposing centers—star centers at that—do you see out on the wing matched up against shooting guards alone? That’s happening to Oden a lot.
—Dave
That's not what he's talking about
Nate certainly doesn’t want Greg matched up alone on the perimeter. They aren’t executing what he wants.
It’s not switch and isolate, it’s pop and trap, then retreat. You say all big men do that, but did Shaq ever do it on the perimeter? And with Greg coming off surgery, he needs to have it drilled into him that this is something we want. It would be easy to drift into just retreating to the middle.
The idea is to pinch the man coming around the screen. Greg sees the screen, and pops up beside it, so the guy coming around the screen has to go way out wide to get around him. If he stops, he’s trapped between Greg and the guard coming around the screen. If he swings wide, there’s time for everyone to recover.
The way to punish it is to quickly hit the guy who set the pick as he’s rolling to the hoop. But to do that, you have to pass over Greg, which may not be easy. So it may take two or more passes to get the ball to the guy rolling, by which point Greg has likely recovered.
That’s the theory, anyway. Few big men have the quickness and agility to make it work, but Greg probably does.
I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.
That he will do
But right now it’s not working at all. With Greg being slightly slow getting out there and the guards unable to deal with any kind of screen effectively it’s turning into a disaster. Unless the personnel changes they’re going to have to rethink.
—Dave
I don't think
this strategy is so much about this year, as it is establishing career habits for Greg. That’s the way I read Nate’s comments.
If that’s the case, I expect it to continue to be a feature for a while, but if it is this ineffective, it will disappear for the playoffs, only to return next year with better execution.
I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.
OK but...
if you’re going to ask the guy to play in a way that will probably result in him getting in foul trouble, then you shouldn’t penalize him by pulling him out of the game every time he gets in foul trouble.
I would rather see GO rack up six fouls in the first half then play these ridiculous three minute stints he gets.
by LicketyBrindle on Jan 20, 2009 2:57 PM PST up reply actions
"penalize"
Nate probably sees it as “protect”.
I don’t know how Greg sees it, though.
I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.
and
Imagine what this team will be if Greg and LMA play like that, Travis gets 8 rebounds and 9 FTs in a game, and Brandon gets untracked, all at the same time.
and Blake and Webster are healthy.
Blake especially
But if Martell comes back like I think he will (even if it doesn’t happen until next year), it just isn’t going to be fair, is it?
I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.
That is the goal.
A real shame about Martell too. That first preseson game he looked like a different player. Even if he only came back at last years level, it’d be huge. If he came back the player we saw versus the Kings… game over.
I know
he really looked good this year. That’s been the biggest disappointment for me this season, not Greg’s lack of consistency.
"...we have so many experts who think that you have to play defense, you have to rebound, you have to be a possession coach, you have to execute. I just laugh. Explosive offense is not as intimidating as dominant defense. But it is scary when you don't know how to stop someone." - George Karl, Nuggets coach
Exactly. While complaining about our offensive system it really struck me that it’s built expecting Blake and Webster in the lineup. Our system works around their weaknesses and showcases their strengths. I still think it’s a weak system that isn’t flexible or versatile enough for our different weapons, but it certainly fits them.
by danielfarrell on Jan 20, 2009 4:30 AM PST up reply actions
If it fits our players....
… then it is not a weak system.
What do you propose should be run?
hakkaa päälle !
More off the ball movement and off the ball picks
to maximize the opportunities from having so many potent weapons on the court. More “roll” in the pick and roll. More quick passes.
I am of the opinion that this, like the defensive problems with the pick and roll, is something that will come over time. I think that Nate is teaching and implementing things slowly, building from the ground up.
If our offense still looks the same in two years, I’ll be shocked — and disappointed.
I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.
Maybe it is just semantics ...
… but what you point out appears to be more a matter of execution, rather than an inadequate offensive system.
hakkaa päälle !
I don't think so
I think some of the things that will be installed Nate hasn’t even tried to install yet, because it wouldn’t work.
Better to try to do a few things well than too many things at once and fail at them all. Succeed at a few things, then work on implementing more.
I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.
I guess to me that would still fall within Nate's system.
The fact he hasn’t implemented it could be due to the execution issue.
hakkaa päälle !
Any of the top notch systems would do fine for me. Princeton or Dribble Drive Motion seem to me the ones that would fit our future the best. Obviously in the NBA you will be doing pick and roll/pop and isolation plays… it’s the rest of the time that concerns me.
by danielfarrell on Jan 20, 2009 6:25 PM PST up reply actions
and while we're imagining...
we sign LeBron and Chris Bosh in 2010.
and win the #1 pick again in 2011.
by LicketyBrindle on Jan 20, 2009 2:57 PM PST up reply actions
All right, here's my favorite sentence within tonight's entire write-up.
“As Mike Barrett mentioned about 700 times,” wrote Dave, “we still need Blake back […] offensive set-ups just aren’t the same.”
Sergio Rodriguez is a pure point guard and Jerryd Bayless is a pure shooting guard; on the other hand, Steve Blake is what I label as a prototypical off guard. Blake can not only dribble the ball up the court and initiate the offense, but he’s also capable of then deferring to Brandon Roy, playing off the ball, and occasionally hitting spot-up three-point shots.
Next to Roy in the backcourt, Blake’s skill set is the perfect match on offense. It’s unfortunate that Blake isn’t a more apt defender — which isn’t truly his fault, for his downfall on that end has more to do with a lack of talent than effort — hence, I still clamor for the acquisition of one Kirk Hinrich.
Give me Darren Collison for 5 years at 2 million per year (1.4 M this year)
hence, I still clamor for the acquisition of one Kirk Hinrich.
That still allows for 10-12 million dollars worth of wiggle room this offseason, instead of zero.
Darren Collison is interesting.
He’s a pesky defender but he has major trouble against bigger point guards. Chauncy Billups types would eat him alive. It might work though with Bayless being able to defend bigger guards using his size and strength.
That still allows for 10-12 million dollars worth of wiggle room this offseason, instead of zero.
I’m not sure about your math. We could probably unload Channing and Ike not to mention whatever contracts Chicago takes back. They could probably still manage some wiggle room, certainly more than zero.
by Nick Van Excellent on Jan 20, 2009 7:37 AM PST up reply actions
Actually not true
even if we let Steve go and pick up just Trout’s option we’ll be left with nothing more than the MLE (again). Feel free to take a look. Collison’s length really negates his lack of height. I’ve never seen a player dominate him on the court… ever. His 50% from 3 the last two years is just the icing on the cake.
I’ve never seen a player dominate him on the court… ever.
Then you must not have seen him matched up against Rose last year. Collison fouled out with 5 turnovers and 2 points in 33 minutes. Rose finished with 25 points, 9 rebounds and 4 assists.
by Nick Van Excellent on Jan 20, 2009 1:13 PM PST up reply actions
Nope.
They couldn’t put Westbrook on Rose because Chris Douglas-Roberts was having such a terrific game. At the time I was screaming at the TV for someone other than Collison to guard Rose, but in retrospect they didn’t have a lot of options.
Rose is 3 inches taller than Collison and outweighs him by 45 pounds. CDR is 7 inches taller than Collison and outweighs him by 50 pounds. Either way it’s a pretty bad mismatch.
I’m excited to see how Collison handles the pros. He’s going to be in our draft range and depending on our PG situation he might make a nice backup PG. It would be nice to have a pesky defender in the second unit who can generate steals and run the fast break with Rudy and Outlaw.
by Nick Van Excellent on Jan 20, 2009 2:04 PM PST up reply actions
I really remember late in that game being impressed by how easily Rose was getting around Westbrook.
Maybe Collison fouled out early? Either way, Collison’s combination of skills leads me to believe he’d be a fantastic fit here, at least for stretches depending on how everyone else fits into their roles.
If we’re able to pull a Darren Collison, Austin Daye or DeJuan Blair out of the middle of this years first round, I’m going to be ecstatic. I really think this draft has some really nice fitting pieces that could be with us for a long time. If we’re somehow able to pull an extra first round pick from Frye/Diogu/Koponen and our 4 2nd rounders that’d be a great step forward.
I think he fouled out in the fourth.
Westbrook did a little better defensively and people were complaining like crazy that UCLA didn’t have him guard Rose the whole game.
I think Collison would do great defending guys like Steve Nash, Chris Paul, Tony Parker, Mike Bibby, Mo Williams, TJ Ford, and Jose Calderon. The fact that Bayless can use his size and strength to keep bigger guards from posting him up would give the Blazers more options with matchups depending on who we played.
I like it. I hope it happens. We need better perimeter defense to keep Greg out of foul trouble. Collison can slow the quicker guards down or funnel them to help defenders on the wings. He would be perfect for the second unit. I vote yes.
by Nick Van Excellent on Jan 20, 2009 4:59 PM PST up reply actions
To be fair, guarding Rose in college
is a completely different beast than guarding him in the pros. I think everyone pretty much sounded the death bells on DJ Augustin’s career after Rose lit him up on offense and shut him down on defense in the tourney.
Then what happens when they first play in the NBA? DJ goes for like 28 and 8 while Rose has like 6 points and 3 TO’s. I know it’s only one game, but still. That Memphis offense was built essentially to allow Rose and CDR (an incredible college player, even if his NBA career never takes off) to take over games if they wanted. In a more conventional setting, guys like Collison, Westbrook and DJ can do better against them.
Of course, in DJ’s case, it helps that he’s not playing alongside 5’10" AJ Abrams at SG in Charlotte. Pretty hard to come up with a defensive scheme when you’re playing against 2 NBA caliber guards and you don’t have anyone cracking 6 feet in the backcourt.
True.
The Westbrook/Collison backcourt is a terrible matchup for the much larger Rose and CDR. That game basically dropped Collison out of the lottery and kept him in school another year. He might be a steal late in the first round. I would rather have Collison than Sergio. They are about the same age and Collison defends better, shoots much better, and runs the offense just about as efficiently. Factor in Collison’s length and athleticism and I think he makes a better backup PG in the NBA.
by Nick Van Excellent on Jan 20, 2009 6:55 PM PST up reply actions
I think Sergio has the potential to be a better player overall
but Collison has the potential to be a better backup. Kind of a cross between Howard Eisley and Kyle Lowry (*vomit*) with a little Derek Fisher in there also. Basically, I see Collison as being a little more professional and content with his role if he never ends up cracking 25 MPG as long as he’s playing for a contender.
I like Sergio’s game, still, I’m just not sure how effective he’ll be long term. Even in Sacto when Bobby Jax was clearly the better player, Williams started until they traded for Bibby.
Our offensive system was built around the strengths and weaknesses of our lineup with the expectation that Blake and Webster would be playing. Our system is great for Blake. It is not great for a creative passing PG(Sergio) nor a driving/scoring PG(Bayless). I expect it to get more versatile and flexible in the offseason to accommodate our different weapons.
by danielfarrell on Jan 20, 2009 4:33 AM PST up reply actions
Before the game CSN did mini interviews with most of the players asking them what they need to improve on
Brandon said 3point shot
Batum said shooting
Blake said penetrating and finishing at the rim
LmA said being a vocal leader
Joel said everything
Trout said penetrating and passing
Bayless said intensity (wow…just wow)
"When I have the ball, I experiment." #5
I was stunned when Bayless said that.
Does he want to put on leather gloves, put a silencer on his browning and assassinate some people or something? Dude is intense enough for an entire basketball team already.
by premthegrem on Jan 20, 2009 12:34 AM PST up reply actions
He is still not always confident in what to do in many situations
That will come over time with experience.
Jerryd is already a neutron star of intensity.
I think he needs to borrow a couple of books from Phil Jackson.
by MiledAnimal on Jan 20, 2009 10:47 AM PST up reply actions
Yes, yes, yes
Brandon — check. Get that up to 42-43%, and you own the world.
Batum — check. There’s other things you could add, but that is the one thing that would do the most for this team.
Blake — check again. I might have said defense, but this is immense, too.
LMA — meh. I’d rather see you get the ball in the high post, pump fake, and blow by your man and dunk it, getting fouled while doing so, and make the FT. Even if it only happens once every other game. Anyone can talk, you’ve got the tools to be dominant.
Joel — dude, if you improve your rebounding, someone is going to go after us for antitrust violations. Improve your ball handling, passing, shooting, FTs.
Travis — yes, and yes, and yes, and yes, and then yes some more. Do that over the summer. I’d like upgrades on defense, too, but if you learn to penetrate and pass, it won’t be fair.
Jerryd — I agree. I haven’t seen you eat a basketball after dunking it yet. Get with the program.
I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.
by jscot on Jan 20, 2009 12:46 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
lol
Joel — dude, if you improve your rebounding, someone is going to go after us for antitrust violations.
Good one.
"...we have so many experts who think that you have to play defense, you have to rebound, you have to be a possession coach, you have to execute. I just laugh. Explosive offense is not as intimidating as dominant defense. But it is scary when you don't know how to stop someone." - George Karl, Nuggets coach
That worries me about Bayless a little. I would like to know that he knows he needs to get better at running the offense, seeing the floor/knowing where people should be and also passing. I’m a HUGE Bayless fan but I can’t help but think he might want to spend a little more time watching film and understanding our offense instead of always being in the gym becoming more intense.
by danielfarrell on Jan 20, 2009 4:37 AM PST up reply actions
It's a rookie thing to say
When your starting out, you want to improve the things your good at. Just as Travis has worked on his fade-away jumper for years, because he wants to be the best at it. It gives you a niche and something that nobody will ever fault you for. Once you’ve established a skill then you start working on your weaknesses. Bayless knows he can be focused and intense every minute he plays every game. Not a lot of players can do that. If he get’s there it would be great, and will define his basketball style.
Brandon – fighting through screens
Blake – fighting through screens
Trout – fighting. through. screens. (and stopping doing that “jump up in the air, then look for someone to pass to” thing. It’s a bad influence on B-Rex.)
Bayless – not fouling people in the backcourt.
Sergio – remembering that you’re supposed to be guarding someone.
Oden – smiling.
by LicketyBrindle on Jan 20, 2009 3:02 PM PST up reply actions
Talking about the playoffs are premature,
but assuming we make it (and get a seed higher than 8), this win gives me hope that we will win a series or two. This team has talent, but it doesn’t have experience, which is why every game against new teams is a learning process (partly why we had trouble against Phoenix and Dallas). In a 7 game series, we will be playing at least 4 games against the same team, so experience against their schemes and style of play will not be a major issue because we will have figured those out a few games in. At that point it will become a matter of execution and just overwhelming the teams with our depth, and I think we will actually have an advantage against every team except for maybe the Lakers in that department.
I think you're mistaking our depth for playoff depth
In the playoffs rosters run 8 maybe 9 deep. Our 11 is just wasted come playoff time, and being that its all young, it doesn’t help our cause that much when games matter more. Most of the playoff teams in the West run at least 8 deep.
I disagree
over a 7 game series, playing a deep rotation will keep a team fresh, and that is as important as anything when it comes to playing deep into the playoffs.
We have the talent to beat anyone
Even the L@kers. And weird things can happen in a 7 game series (ask Dallas).
But a home win against Milwaukie who doesn’t have a center is not an indicator of playoff success. And a big difference in experience usually is good for a win or two in a series. So if we come up against a much more experienced team, we probably need to be well ahead of them in talent to win the series.
That said, I think pretty highly of Nate’s ability to come up with an effective game plan against a particular team. That may be enough to steal a road win, and we’re very good at defending our home court. We’ll have a chance.
I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.
Oden's missed free throws are unacceptable.
I'm a Blazers fan and If you ban me from your blog, I'll sue you!
Please don't feed the trolls.
God forgives, tominhawaii doesn't.
Throw your shoe at the telly
I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.
Thoughts from Watching the Milwaukee Announcers:
Lamarcus Aldridge has seriously impressed people. They talked about how unfair it was that a big, strong, tall guy could hit jumpers out to 20 feet. They were saying, “The length he already has, plus his quickness, plus shooting nearly 50% with as many jumpshots as he takes makes him completely unstoppable. No one can get up high enough or fast enough to stop it.” I know Blazer fans look at Aldridge’s outside jumper as a liability sometimes, but it’s precisely that ability that amazes our opposition.
“Brandon Roy is the West Coast version of Dwayne Wade.”
Scott Skiles on Greg Oden: “He dominated us.” Enough said.
The Bucks missed Bogut immensely. Bogut would have drawn fouls on Oden, and sent him to the bench, and would have helped stem the tide on the rebounding deficit.
I’ve already got my tickets for March 21st. Can’t wait.
Current Titles:
Official Blazer's Edge Poet Co-Laureate for the 2008-2009 Season
Official Blazer's Edge Ambassador to the Milwaukee Bucks
Unofficial Blazer's Edge Grammar Magister
Unofficial Blazer's Edge Grumpy Ol' Curmudgeon
Chaplain of the Jarrett Jack Jump-Pass Memorial Fanclub
Good win tonight
Fun game to watch, although I still had to close my eyes on defense some times to keep from throwing objects at my TV. I find myself watching for pick and rolls and pleading for the team to not switch, but alas, they almost always switch. In Quick’s response to my post yesterday, he said Nate told him that the team is only to switch in emergencies, yet the team seems to switch natural on almost all picks, even bad picks. Last night it was really hard to watch the players make the switch on the picks being set by the Buck’s, as most of them were very lazy picks and could have easily been worked around.
No wonder Nate has to be a Sarge with these players.
Switching
Portland actually didn’t switch as much as they usually do. Mind you, they still switched a lot, but you saw guys going through the screens more often.
Part of this depends on who you are against. If you go under a screen against Nash, he’s going to shoot the crap out of you. Switching is a must at times. (LA also shut Nash down on switches.) Against someone like Ridnour you can afford to leave him open for a second to get around the screen. He hit some shots tonight, but not enough to hurt us.
Ups and Downs
Roy
Ups: Deferred to teammates when he was off, hit the boards.
Downs: Offense still not there, seems to fear passing to anyone but LA.
LA
Ups: Drained the crap out of his shots, hit the boards.
Downs: Still not dominating down low, even against teams who can’t defend it.
Oden
Ups: Stayed out of foul trouble, crushed puny Bucks, hit the boards.
Downs: FT shooting. We want this guy to be above 70%. Also, needs to be ready for the sharp passes, he fumbled a couple. (Tough passes, but ones that are free dunks if he gets his hands on them.)
Batum
Ups: Crazy hustle, created some offense, hit the boards.
Downs: Not hitting the open 3s like we want our SF to do.
Sergio
Ups: Ran the offense almost flawlessly, kept turnovers to a minimum, hit the boards.
Downs: Shot poorly, although chalk up 2 of those misses to blown calls. (2-7 still not good though.)
Bayless
Ups: Being aggressive, got to the line, PASSED IT AFTER STARTING A DRIVE. Who cares if it was to a wide open play and that his drive had just started, he still did it.
Downs: Shooting back down to Earth, still not passing past a certain point in his drive. Flopped. (Not a fan, don’t be that guy.)
Joel
Ups: Didn’t seem moody despite not playing at all.
Downs: Not really productive at all. Heal damn you!
Outlaw
Ups: Took and hit mostly good shots, hit the boards!
Downs: Nothing major, he even seemed to kind of understand the defense.
Rudy
Ups: Created non 3 point shots and hit them all.
Downs: Didn’t hit the 3 ball, got beat on D a lot.
by Zaig on Jan 20, 2009 10:27 AM PST reply actions 1 recs

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