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Game 39 Recap: Blazers 105, Nets 99

I enjoyed watching this game.  It was a little bit different.  It was all about great individual performances by players exploiting opponent weaknesses...for both sides.  It was offensive basketball all the way (meaning "the offenses were shining" as opposed to basketball which offends).  As it turned out the Blazers had a couple guys step up bigger than the Nets did.  That, of course, made it even sweeter.

Boxscore

General Observations

The Blazers were outshot and outscored from the field and the three-point line tonight.  Our defense couldn't hamper the Nets any more than theirs hampered us.  Less, in fact.  The difference was that Portland was more aggressive more often.  We drove the lane.  We picked up fouls.  The Nets finished the game 12-17 from the free throw line and the Blazers finished 26-33.  That 14-point cushion came in handy.  (This is also a good lesson for people who complain that the officiating was bad every time another team shoots a lot more free throws than the Blazers do.  Sometimes the disparity is warranted.  If that's not true, then this should have been a win for the Nets.)  The Blazers were also helped along by a couple of their strengths.  They collected 12 offensive rebounds and held the Nets to 6.  Portland only committed 8 turnovers for the game.  Plus the Blazers did a great job of getting back in transition all night.  Fast break points would have made up that free-throw cushion quickly but the Nets couldn't generate any.  Though the rest of the defense was fairly weak that area was great.  Hats off to the team effort there. 

There were a couple of trouble spots tonight, however.  First of all, this game featured some of the worst pick and roll defense ever.  The point guards and even Rudy were just brutal defending screens.  They exposed the big men something fierce.  When that big man was Oden he didn't know how to handle it and picked up fouls.  That's one of the reasons you didn't see Greg play more in this game.  Joel Przybilla and Lamarcus Aldridge had a better chance of picking up and sticking with those dribblers off of the pick.  I'm pretty sure that at least half of the reason you saw a lot of zone out there was to protect our guards from getting exploited repeatedly.  Second, we had a really hard time scoring when the outside jumper wasn't falling.  This is exactly where we miss Steve Blake.  New Jersey would just pack it in and the Blazers had a harder time scoring than Andrew Dice Clay at a NOW convention.  Fortunately the outside shots started falling in the second half and the lanes opened up.  New Jersey isn't that adept at rotating or shutting down penetration and there we were.

The Blazers' bench factored in hugely tonight.  They had more than half of our total rebounds and 48 of our 105 points.

Individual Observations

Thank goodness we had Brandon Roy at least semi-healthy tonight. He started the game strong, set the tone for penetration, and kept the scoring going through most of the dry spells.  The Nets were so preoccupied with him that they couldn't cover everyone else well enough.  Plus Roy got to the line 16 times, almost half of Portland's enormous total.  Roy actually ended up filling the point guard role during the critical final stretches of the game, allowing Jerryd Bayless to play, in effect, off guard.  This helped Bayless' scoring opportunities, not only with his position and lanes to drive in, but because he was free to just score instead of set up the offense.  Roy finished the night 8-16, 13-16 from the foul line, 8 rebounds, 5 assists, 2 steals, and oh yeah...29 points too.

Lamarcus Aldridge was the iron man for the game along with Roy.  He mostly stayed out on the perimeter but had a nice dunk and managed 20 points on 10-19 shooting.  He was an important outlet in the fourth quarter when the Blazers were experimenting with their guard positions.  If nothing else works, pass to Lamarcus.  Jumper...boom.

Jerryd Bayless was the hot story of the night for Portland.  He started driving aggressively almost as soon as he entered the game and he didn't stop.  He drew a ton of fouls and converted most of his shots.  (He had only missed one until late in the fourth.)  He didn't defend screens that much better than his compatriots but he did the best job staying in front of his man on non-screen plays.  He ended up shooting 6-9 from the field, 11-11 from the line, 3 rebounds, 3 assists, only 1 turnover, scoring 23 points in 25 minutes.  However there's reason for caution here.  Jerryd did little to alleviate the perception that he's looking to drive and score every time he touches the ball.  At one point late in the game he drove and attempted a pass fake to his right before trying to finish at the hoop.  That was his 1 turnover.  Nobody in the building, the state of New Jersey, or anywhere this side of Jupiter's moons bought the idea that he'd pass off.  He took New Jersey somewhat by surprise but that doesn't last long in this league.  In addition to all of the glorious plays we saw a couple where three Nets just swarmed him and he shot it anyway.  That will happen with more frequency.  Don't expect a ton of 20-point nights (or maybe even 10-point nights) until his vision and game become more complete.  That said, somebody (I have no idea who, but I hear he's darn good looking) has been saying repeatedly since before the season that the Blazers would be better served by bringing Jerryd along as an off-guard on offense, point guard on defense to allow him to play to his strengths.  This instead of shoehorning him into that point guard role exclusively on offense.  I think we saw tonight that there are possibilities in that approach.

Travis Outlaw was the guy who opened up the floor and the driving lanes with his shooting when the rest of the Blazers were running dry outside and coming up against solid brick inside.  His 13 points look quiet compared to all of the players just mentioned but his 3-4 three-point shooting was important.  He also had 7 rebounds.

I was glad to see Nicolas Batum take 4 shots tonight.  Sadly 3 of them were threes and he missed them all, drifting on each.  He doesn't look comfortable spotting up out there right now and frankly I wish he'd just put the ball on the floor more and either pull up for a shorter jumper or take it deep inside.  This isn't the best Nicolas we're seeing here.  He did pull a variety of defensive assignments and was credible.  You don't have to worry too much about Nic on that end.

Sergio Rodriguez had 4 assists and had a couple nice drives.  He was one of the main guys exploited on defense.  No matter what our point guard does on offense he has to play defense on opposing point guards.  Sergio has to learn how to handle a pick before he can expect to play more, let alone be a starter.

Speaking of handling picks, Greg Oden played 13 minutes and had 1 very nice score and 1 very nice block but only 1 rebound to go with them.  He continues to fail in his recognition of what is a good foul and when it's just time to let the bucket go.  He's also getting left guarding small men out up top because of those picks.  That's not going to be his game ever.  That's why he didn't play.

Joel Przybilla stepped in admirably and provided a little stiffer challenge for the Nets' drivers.  Plus he was an active rebounder, finishing with 11 in 22 minutes.

Like Travis, Rudy hit a couple of important threes in limited minutes.  He also had a couple of nice feeds.  His defense needed some work too.  It's hard to know how far he was back from the injury but it seemed like the coaches played him just about the right amount of time and in the right situations tonight.  He finished with 6 points, 3 rebounds, and 3 assists.

Channing Frye got 5 minutes and hit a shot.  He's the best player I've ever seen at smiling and looking happy for his teammates when stuck in the midst of what must be a really challenging situation.

Final Thoughts

Did anyone else cringe every time Brandon grabbed a knee or any other part of his body?  When's the next time we get more than two days off between games?  Great.  The All-Star break.  Oh wait...Brandon's getting appointed to the team by the coaches, isn't he?  Even greater.  Oh...and we only get two days off between games twice in that period?  Besides that it's a game every other day?  Please...please...please let him hold up!

Check out the Jersey Contest scores for this game and enter Saturday's form  here

--Dave (blazersub@yahoo.com

BallHype: hype it up!

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Oh no!!!

Because of a freak plane accident on the river outside my window, I had to pass up free tickets and go to work instead of going to the Meadowlands. And then the DVR ran out at halftime. Did anything happen in the second half? Nobody had a career game or anything, right?

by Kaboomm on Jan 15, 2009 9:31 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

nah

you didn’t miss anything… haha

There is probably no more terrible instance of enlightenment than the one in which you discover your father is a man — with human flesh.
Paul Muad'Dib - Dune (Frank Herbert)

My Translation: My Dad is a dude just like me, and my sons are dudes like me also. I love that.
Season Tix: Section 315, with my sons

by johnv59 on Jan 15, 2009 9:37 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Expect the zone again in Charlotte

In fact, expect a lot of it until Steve gets back, probably.

I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.

by jscot on Jan 15, 2009 9:32 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

It really is getting appalling

whatever we’re doing on screen defense. I hate to dog on our guys after a win, but when we’re unable to keep Greg on the floor for more than 13 minutes because we can’t play a single screen without switching, it’s pretty disturbing. Especially on Devin Harris, you can go under screens on Devin, he’s not going to beat you shooting from outside of 18 feet.

by Royster on Jan 15, 2009 9:35 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Forget switching

we didn’t even switch, we just…stopped. “Oh, a screen. Alas, I can go no further on my defensive quest. I shall just lean against the non-critical side of this pick-setter for some comfort. Good luck, all!”

—Dave

by Dave on Jan 15, 2009 9:37 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

haha, harsh, Dave

good thing we won this one. I’m guessing you had some solid material saved up for a scathing essay on pick and roll defense.

by Royster on Jan 15, 2009 9:38 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Credit Nate

for helping to fix it and credit the guys he put in there for at least making their high screen and roll a little more complicated to score with.

—Dave

by Dave on Jan 15, 2009 9:40 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Credit Nate?

Preposterous! This is Blazer’s Edge! We only credit Nate for screwing up the rotation, remember?

"West just flipped Roy's switch to 'Hide the women and children'"
- tmundal, Nov 29, 2008 9:11 PM PST

by GustyJ on Jan 15, 2009 9:46 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I mean, we executed when it counts

making the adjustment was big, he’s recognizing it’s not working and going to something that does a little more. I just wish that light would flip on for our guards. Even at our lowest points last year, I don’t remember our guys playing picks this poorly.

by Royster on Jan 15, 2009 9:48 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe Sergio & Bayless are being cautious?

After all, Blakey separated his shoulder trying to fight through a screen.

by DonkeyShins on Jan 16, 2009 8:49 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, good point

Dave’s trying to sabotage us, obviously.

I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.

by jscot on Jan 16, 2009 10:33 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Ha!

It’s a secret plan to undermine your future world rule! Crush the hopes of Blazers’ fans and jscot loses his power base. It’s so crazy, it’s perfect!

by DonkeyShins on Jan 17, 2009 12:25 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

This was ary entertaining game to watch

I love those. No angst like the 76er game….

There is probably no more terrible instance of enlightenment than the one in which you discover your father is a man — with human flesh.
Paul Muad'Dib - Dune (Frank Herbert)

My Translation: My Dad is a dude just like me, and my sons are dudes like me also. I love that.
Season Tix: Section 315, with my sons

by johnv59 on Jan 15, 2009 9:36 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

"was an"....

darn keyboard

There is probably no more terrible instance of enlightenment than the one in which you discover your father is a man — with human flesh.
Paul Muad'Dib - Dune (Frank Herbert)

My Translation: My Dad is a dude just like me, and my sons are dudes like me also. I love that.
Season Tix: Section 315, with my sons

by johnv59 on Jan 15, 2009 9:36 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

all those crazy cats on Neptune...

are suckers for a pass fake.

"Bayless is awesome." -Clyde Drexler

by pxilpooshr on Jan 15, 2009 9:36 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Hard to believe Dave posts on Blazers Edge.

He doesn’t get mad at Nate, he doesn’t demand that Sergio or Bayless start, and he doesn’t make trade suggestion. All for which I am grateful.

by MiledAnimal on Jan 15, 2009 9:38 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I do all of those things at some point or another

but I like to have, you know, 50+ games worth of observation (or even a couple seasons) before I’m ready to make those conclusions. Especially since nobody controversial on our team has played more than three seasons except for Travis.

—Dave

by Dave on Jan 15, 2009 9:39 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

"50 + games of observation," that would spoil everyone's manic-depressive fun....

Three quarters of the posters on this sight were ready to trade Bayless last night for a wad of used chewing gum. Tonight, I expect many will be ready to anoint him.

Patience and reasoned, balanced observation seem frequently to be in short supply.

Bayless clearly has impressive skills going to the hoop. If he can find his outside shot, which is rumored to be on display regularly at practice, Bayless is going to be a very good scorer. If you combine that with Marty returning to spread the floor. Brandon covering for Bayless’ limitations as a distributor, I see real potential.

I am not suggesting that Bayless has arrived, far from it, I think he is just getting started. But you, and everyone else around here need to acknowledge that we are seeing someone with unusual skills. He is a long way from figuring out how to use them effectively on a regular basis, but the kid is special.

Nate can’t send him back to the end of the bench. Bayless will learn to distribute, but Sergio will never grow wings.

by upper left corner on Jan 15, 2009 10:02 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

To be honest, I feel much the same about Bayless now as I did yesterday

I loved seeing him break out, which was really only a matter of time before we saw it, and it was definitely a little earlier than I expected, but like any young guard (Sergio included) he just needed a little extended burn. Stevie’s injury may turn out to be a little bit of a blessing there in that both of them will be forced into more court time.

My issue before tonight was just with posters saying that Bayless had already proven to be our best PG at both ends of the floor. It’s performances like this that prove that, not his previous performances. Obviously this won’t happen every night, but I’m looking forward to more of this from Bayless.

by Royster on Jan 15, 2009 10:11 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I couldn't have said it better.

Bayless’ line from two nights ago told me that he’s not ready to be annointed as our starting PG. Nothing more. Last night’s performance is a reminder of why Pritchard targeted him in the first place. My opinion is that he can be of greatest value as a PG, but I think he may have a long way to go to become one. Fortunately, Portland has the luxury of Brandon Roy, who may allow Jerryd to get time on the court due to Brandon’s ability to take over the PG role on offense.

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Jan 16, 2009 6:48 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You go, my friend

But EVERYBODY in the league has skills of one form or another. Sergio fans trumpet his, Rudy’s fans his, Oden’s fans his, Travis’ fans his, Jerryd’s fans his. They’re all special. A ton of guys have the potential to be stars. Not everybody becomes one. More importantly, not everybody achieves that level consistently after their first breakout game, especially when that game also highlights the things they have yet to work on. How many brilliant games have the other players I just named had? But they’re all still working on it, trying to make it work full-time.

If Jerryd keeps up this kind of attack he’s going to find himself trying to finish against 2-3 guys every time. No matter how special he is or what skills he has that’s not going to work for him. His game will need to evolve more and that takes…time.

—Dave

by Dave on Jan 15, 2009 10:14 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Forgot

Nic Batum. Him too.

—Dave

by Dave on Jan 15, 2009 10:15 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Undoubtedly it's going to take time.

But in the meantime he’s got a heckuva “second” and “third” option in Brandon and LaMarcus. Being a threat to finish at the rack and (hopefully someday) knock down an open jumper opens up shots for other guys … here’s hoping he can see them.

by nikolokolus on Jan 15, 2009 10:22 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You are, of course, correct Dave

But, who are you going to leave open to send 2-3 guys at Jerryd? Sure, he needs to work on recognizing the double when it comes, but you have to actually make it come to learn to recognize it. First big step for a scoring PG, as a rookie, is to establish the scoring.

The main thing here is that you can’t leave Jerryd open to double our other guys. It’s one more threat to go off on you. When Roy is operating, you can’t sleep on Rex.

The Roy/Rex backcourt will one day rule the NBA.

I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.

by jscot on Jan 15, 2009 10:33 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The Roy/Rex backcourt will one day rule the NBA.

As long as they can learn how to get the other 3 guys involved.

That’s easy for the three point shooters (since their defenders sag in on the drive), but much harder for the post players.

If Roy and Bayless can learn to mesh with an inside presence, everyone watch out.

by Timmay! on Jan 15, 2009 10:35 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

i can really see the wisdom of pritchard saying he likes this team

and does not like midseason trades.

let’s see what we have.

ignacio

by ignacio on Jan 15, 2009 10:43 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

How boring

I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.

by jscot on Jan 15, 2009 10:44 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

KP always seems like a step (or three) ahead of us

If he sees something on this team now that we wouldn’t see until later, he’s got my trust to resolve it.

I still think a trade is coming by the deadline.

by Timmay! on Jan 15, 2009 10:44 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

my ideal team was the 72 knicks

with both walt frazier and earl the pearl monroe at g

ignacio

by ignacio on Jan 15, 2009 10:36 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Totally awesome

I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.

by jscot on Jan 15, 2009 10:39 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I think the issue Dave was referring to is

that it’s not a trivial matter to be able to get the ball to the open guy if Bayless starts getting doubled. There have been tons of great one on one players in the NBA who can’t find an open guy when aggressively doubled. Just because we have an excellent shooter open doesn’t mean that Bayless will be able to find him. That’s going to take better vision/passing than he’s shown so far.

Can he develop that? Of course, he doesn’t need to be Steve Nash out there, but it’s a non-trivial skill.

by Royster on Jan 15, 2009 11:12 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

He has shown flashes....

Bayless has made a number of very good passes while on the drive. He has kicked it out to the corner and dropped it off to the big guys. H e obviously hasn’t shown consistency on these passes, but the fact that he has made some good ones suggests than he can learn to do more.

by upper left corner on Jan 15, 2009 11:16 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Of course, that's why I believe he can develop it

but there’s a world of difference between finding a guy in the near corner (usually in his line of sight) off of a drive, and breaking an aggressive double by making a pass that leads to an open shot. Even Brandon has struggled with the latter some, like in our opener in LA.

My point is, that seeing the court well isn’t something you learn, it’s something that might as well be born into these guys since by the time we see them, it’s already pretty set. Notice how every guy who averages 9-10 assists basically does it from the first time he gets any burn. Kidd, Nash, Terrell Brandon, Paul, Miller and Stockton, all basically were double digit assist guys from day one. I can’t think of a single guy who was a consistent 5-6 guy that managed to bump up to 9-10 later in his career.

Obviously we don’t need that from Bayless, but we’ll need him to improve a little there, at least. Like you said, he’s shown flashes of it, but we’ve seen flashes of brilliance from Sergio, Travis, Channing, et al, so there’s just as much a chance of the flash being the exception to the rule, rather than the rule itself in the long term.

by Royster on Jan 15, 2009 11:31 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Can he develop it?

I actually think seeing the court well is something you can learn.

There’s the natural talent and there’s developed ability. The guy who has a natural talent for it may always be better than the guy who develops the ability. But if a guy is always studying game film after the game to see the opportunities he missed, he’ll learn.

It’s a mindset more than a gift, really. And you can train yourself to have that mindset.

But Bayless will never be Nash, because that isn’t what they are trying to develop here. They want him to be Parker.

I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.

by jscot on Jan 15, 2009 11:46 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I think seeing the court well to a point

is something you can learn once you’re in the league, but no matter how much game film he studies, I don’t think he’ll ever put up Paul-like assist numbers, even if he’s working specifically on that. I feel like being a high assist guy and being able to see the court like one of the guys I mentioned takes tendencies and habits that are developed in youth basketball. By the time a guy hits the national scene, his ceiling in these areas is already somewhat set like that, just because of what he’s done as a younger kid.

I mean, look at Duncan and KG. KG is superior to Duncan in every way physically, and theoretically, there’s nothing that would stop KG (or almost any big) from developing Duncan’s post game, and yet no one has even come close. Is that because guys aren’t working hard at it, or just because Duncan is Duncan because of how he developed when he first started out as a basketball player.

I guess my point is that it’s possible to go from poor to adequate at pretty much anything in the NBA, and possible to go from adequate to great at certain things (shooting, defense), but almost impossible to go from adequate to great at others (court vision, finishing at the rim).

Like we agree on, though, we don’t need Bayless to be have more than an adequate or above average court vision, so the point is in general moot. I just feel that as much as people love to talk about a guy’s ceiling because of his athleticism, there are certain other attributes beyond measurements and vertical leap that factor into an NBA “ceiling”

by Royster on Jan 15, 2009 11:59 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It's really hard to say

with these young players. By the time Jerryd has spent a year in the league, he will probably have spent more time on the court in NBA practice than he has spent on the court in all of his life combined in organized games.

So are his tendencies really set?

It also partly depends on personality and motivation. I had certain mind-set characteristics that I recognized at about the age of 20-21 that would be good to change, and I changed them. I suddenly came to the recognition that if I wanted to be able to converse effectively with people with whom I was in disagreement, I actually needed to try to learn to understand their point of view, even if I thought their point of view was stupid. This was nothing I had ever even thought about doing before.

I don’t always succeed in that, but it took some significant brain re-wiring, and the difference between me back then and me today is pretty significant in the way I approach a lot of situations.

Now, that’s not the same thing as what we’re discussing, but yet, in a way, it is. Because I think we’re largely talking about mindset, and mindset can change and determine habits if one is committed to work to carry it out.

We’re very much in a speculative area here, of course. If it is possible to re-wire yourself, that still begs the question of whether Jerryd is committed enough to doing that, and whether the team is committed to that vision of him.

I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.

by jscot on Jan 16, 2009 3:35 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with the idea that it's possible to change one's mindset

on the court. Look at everyone falling over themselves over K*be’s “new team game” last year, but I think it goes beyond just Jerryd starting to look to pass more, but rather extends into the ability to “see” the difficult passes, and then get himself in a position to make that pass.

I think my use of the word tendencies was a poor choice, and that instincts is probably better. For example, if AI, K*be, or Wade were to just all of a sudden decide that they wanted to be double digit assist guys, I’m not sure they could do it. Not because they’re not hard workers or driven basketball players, but because their instincts are set that when they have an open lane, or a sliver of a crease, their instincts are to attack or pull up for a jumper. It takes a conscious decision on their part to stop that instinctual desire and then look for the pass.

This happens in a split second of course, and it’s something that you can definitely reduce the time of by practicing and working, but I don’t think you can completely eliminate it compared to like a Chris Paul, who has always just seemed to know once he gets the ball what he can do to set a guy up without consciously thinking about it.

It’s like learning a language as a child vs. learning it as an adult. There’s always going to be a slight difference even between a professor of Spanish and a native speaker of it. I understand using your example of yourself, but with that situation, there’s no penalty if you have to stop yourself, consciously make the decision about looking at the other person’s viewpoint, and then proceed. For something like basketball, when you get into conscious thought, it’s usually to late because the window for action has already closed by that point.

by Royster on Jan 16, 2009 7:00 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I mostly agree

But we aren’t talking Kobe, we’re talking a kid who just turned 20. I’m not sure his habits and instincts are set in stone yet.

Hard to prove either way. Stephen Curry is trying to remake himself into a PG, which will be interesting to observe. He’s older than Jerryd.

I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.

by jscot on Jan 16, 2009 8:06 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

To be honest,

I’m so far off on a tangent that I’m barely talking about Jerryd anymore. I have no doubt that he can make himself into a competent playmaker and a great scorer, which would be what we need and what I’d be happy with, I’m more just addressing the idea of ceilings.

I’d bet significant money on Jerryd never averaging 10 assists/game over his career, just like I’d bet money that Sergio will never average 20-25 pts and 6-7 FTs/game. This is completely irregardless of their mindsets, as I see it. Certain guys just do things others can’t, which goes beyond a physical tools standpoint.

Anyone in the NBA can learn to be competent at anything. Only a few guys can be great at something.

by Royster on Jan 16, 2009 8:33 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

If I'm getting this right

You’re boiling this down to a nature versus nurture argument, or the old, once it’s hardwired in the brain that’s what you’re stuck with.

First of all, the nature nurture argument is far too black and white for the end result that you’re looking at. Yes if you examine only those minute instances of split second decision making and execution it may very well be dependent on, ugh I hate saying it, “talent”. However it is the conscious mind that becomes aware of that ability in the self, and organizes strategies that maximize tactical advantage. You can’t tell me John stockton was primarily hardwired to act on instinct, and you can’t tell me Michael Jordan was either. Jordan as you may recall was always at practice 5am. Developing skills. The “talent” that i recognize is someone who consciously assesses their strengths and augments them by drilling routines to capitalize on them. Drilling, as in sarge. To drill is to preform a repitition so that it is ingrained in the mind. It is making well traveled associations in the brain. Hardwiring if you will. Skill comes from the conscious mind and therefore will always best talent. Talent is specialized and therefore susceptible to adaptation by the opponent. Chris Paul expresses a great talent when he is on the floor, and teams/coaching staffs react to that. Chris Paul’s talent is neutralized and he reacts as every talented person who considers themselves gifted and maybe even entitled: he pouts. He complains to the refs, he shouts at his teammates. Give me the player that must develop his ability to win with hard earned skills. A player that must chose consciously when to use his speed, when to exert energy, how to apply his tactical advantage. In short give me Brandon Roy. And hopefully, give me a similar B-Rex too.

"Bayless is awesome." -Clyde Drexler

by pxilpooshr on Jan 16, 2009 9:55 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Well, there's "talent"and then there's "talent"

it’s definitely apparent that certain guys have just always had the game come easier to them (T-Mac and Vince come to mind), but other guys have developed it through working at it, like you said. My argument is that the ceiling for a player’s given skill is roughly established by the time he gets to the NBA, just because you can only alter the instincts you’ve built up through years of playing basketball growing up.

That’s what I was trying to get at with the language comparison. No matter how much I study, speak and immerse myself in Spanish, I’m always going to be a better English speaker, because during my formative language years, I was around English speakers. I think in English, so there’s always going to be that slight disconnect that where I have to translate my thoughts before speaking them.

Same with Roy/Bayless/Paul/whoever. They’ve been playing the game a certain way their whole lives, and no matter how much drilling they do, I think there’s a limit to how much they can develop certain instincts. MJ, for example, while being a far superior basketball player, could probably never have run the pick and roll as well as Stockton or run a fast break like Magic, just because that’s their “native tongues” so to speak. MJ’s work ethic came far before he ever made it to the NBA, though, with the most common explanation for its origins being when he was cut as a HS sophomore.

Sure, it’s important for these guys to be drilling themselves constantly in order to reach their ceilings, and work ethic is a bit part of it, but like you said, no matter how hard they work, they’ll never be able to do some things that Chris Paul does, and conversely, I’d say there are some things they could do if they develop that Paul will never be able to do.

by Royster on Jan 16, 2009 11:15 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Nice breakdown.

"Bayless is awesome." -Clyde Drexler

by pxilpooshr on Jan 16, 2009 4:00 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know I'd call Garnett superior to Duncan ...

… in every way.

Just because KG looks like he’s full of energy out there and Duncan often appears like he’s out for a Sunday stroll, doesn’t mean Garnett is the superior athlete.

For one, I’d say Tim Duncan clearly is superior to Garnett with regard to intelligence. In fact I think he’s one of the most intelligent guys in the game. I also would risk a wager that Duncan is stronger than Garnett.

For some time I was of the opinion that these two were the two best players in the league. I usually had Duncan ahead of Garnett. For maybe a year or so, Garnett almost pulled even (in my estimation), but I’m back to believing Duncan is the guy you pick if there was an open draft of all NBA players.

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Jan 16, 2009 7:00 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I completely agree that I'd take Duncan

every day of the week and twice on Sunday, but I meant just in terms of pure athleticism. Duncan’s athleticism gets a little underrated, but KG is just a physical freak, so I’m not trying to knock on Duncan there.

What I meant was, there’s nothing about Duncan’s game that you can’t say isn’t theoretically teachable to an NBA guy, but practically, guys just don’t develop post games like Duncan’s after their games have matured to an NBA level, so his “skill” level has to factor in when you’re talking about a guy’s ceiling.

I mean, say Brandon and Travis had come into the league in the same year. Travis’s “ceiling” would be way higher if we were just talking about physical gifts, but in reality, he’s just never going to have Brandon’s feel for the game, no matter how many ball handling and shooting drills he does. I’m not sure you’ll find a single serious basketball fan who would suggest now that Travis’s ceiling is anywhere close to Brandon’s, even though he’s only a year older and is way more athletic.

So it’s one thing to say a guy “could” develop all of these different parts of his game, but practically, some things you just can’t learn after you’ve hit the NBA.

by Royster on Jan 16, 2009 7:07 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm convinced

that the ability to “see the floor” and to react in a pico-second to what is visually absorbed, is largely hardwired. Those that could do this at a high level, the Walton’s, Bird’s, Roy’s, and Paul’s are rare, and these guys had that ability from the very beginning.

There are many who have this ability to a lessor degree of course, but many are challenged by it their entire careers.

Brandon Roy just destroyed everything in his path. There's your rational analysis -- Dave

by TwoDeep on Jan 16, 2009 8:38 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly

I’m not ready to go to the length of saying it’s hardwired at birth, but it’s certainly hardwired into a guy’s game by the time he gets into the league.

Whether that comes from youth coaching or pick up games as a kid in the neighborhood, or whatever, I can’t say, but I can’t think of a single guy who sees the court remotely as well as Bird/Magic/Paul who didn’t do it from pretty much day one.

by Royster on Jan 16, 2009 8:49 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

did you watch Roy at UW?

He was nowhere near what he was today. He didn’t even start til his senior year.

He developed seeing the floor as he got older.

by Cablinasian on Jan 16, 2009 2:00 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

"Who are you going to leave open...?"

Right now that would be the point. It doesn’t matter. Jerryd’s thought process right now is drive…score. If you send 2 more guys at him the thought process will be drive…score…oh wait that option isn’t working what do I do? At that point, surrounded by those players, it’ll be too late. When he shows the ability to see and decide between the score and the dish…even better when he’s able to get the correct pass off just as soon as the double starts coming and before it’s even there, then we have a weapon. But we’re a ways from that now. If he’s typical it’ll take him a few dozen tries to even realize that he can be stopped by multiple people. Then the discouragement of finding out that his “A” option isn’t going to work. Some bench time until he gets it straight. Then coming back and working on those skills and that vision…a bunch more games to work the kinks out. Then more time before it becomes natural and not a conscious thought process. Usually this takes a couple seasons all together. And that’s if you play. Brandon Roy and Lamarcus Aldridge are a couple of the very rare guys I’ve seen do it quicker.

—Dave

by Dave on Jan 15, 2009 11:14 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

No disagreement

But as I said, he needed to establish the scoring. A couple more games like this, and those guys will start to come.

My point still stands, though, that when Brandon has the ball and is operating, the guy defending Jerryd is a lot less likely to leave him and double Brandon. With Steve in the game, we punish you with the 3 when you do that. With Jerryd in the game, we threaten to plunder your entire defense and get your big men in foul trouble.

I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.

by jscot on Jan 15, 2009 11:19 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Being a bit harsh.....

Bayless has made a number of nice passes off the drive. Not tonight, but over the course of the season. He has kicked it to the corner and dropped it off to the big guys. He needs to do it more, but the fact that he has shown the ability and willingness to do it at all suggests that he can learn to do it more often.

by upper left corner on Jan 15, 2009 11:21 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I think you are missing the point...

Bayless is the Travis Outlaw of point guards right now. He is an amazing athlete, plenty of raw skills, but really doesnt think the game well(for a pg) When he takes that first step towards the hoop, his mind is already made up about whether he will pass or shoot. You can see it by the way he drives. When he is looking to score, he lowers his head, puts the blinders up, and drives HARD to the front of the rim. He needs to be able to read the defense on the drive and make the pass when help comes to cut him off. Right now, when he makes up his mind to drive and score, every defender on the court could collapse on him and he would put his shoulder into somebodys chest and try to draw a foul. I believe developing those pg instincts of when to shoot or pass is probably one of the hardest things to learn in the nba. There aren’t really drills he can do late at night, that development comes through 5 on 5 schrimages and from watching film. I think it will be a tough road for him in that sense but he seems up to the task….

RUDY > MJ

by myemic23 on Jan 16, 2009 10:01 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Watching film

from different angles to see the opportunities that were there, and from court level to see what they look like from the court.

I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.

by jscot on Jan 16, 2009 10:36 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Pretty speculative observations on your part

I don’t think you can realistically speculate about what is going on in the mind of a player. You can observe their play, but speculating about their state of mind is a bit of a stretch.

You are saying that “his mind is already made up.” I am saying we have seen him make quite a few nice passes off the dribble. He needs to make more.

If anything, I think part of Bayless’ difficulty getting traction has been that he has been trying so hard not to be “shoot first” that he has been thinking to much and not just reacting naturally to the openings he sees on the floor. Once he gets more comfortable with the fact that he can get to the rim, he can start reacting to the double and improve his vision and passing.

Sometimes guys just need to play and do what they do well before they try to out-think the game. I think the same applies to Oden. He was thinking too much and it was making his movements way too mechanical.

I do understand the point you are making, and agree that it has validity. I am just saying that I think he has the tools and the willingness to get there. It is not liable to be a smooth process, but that is why I think it makes sense to get started now when the stakes are lower and the mistakes less costly.

by upper left corner on Jan 16, 2009 10:37 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

With a Brandon Roy and Jerryd Bayless backcourt, I'd implement a 2-3 or 2-1-2 zone ...

defense to prevent guard penetration and force them to shoot outside or, perhaps, commit costly turnovers — which is what’ll happen to Jerryd Bayless in that situation — therefore, If I was in Larry Brown’s shoes right now, then that’d surely be my game plain for Saturday’s contest. Besides, with a starting backcourt that consists of Raja Bell and Raymond Felton, the Charlotte Bobcats have the necessary size and defensive prowess to accomplish that goal.

by AK1984 on Jan 16, 2009 12:36 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yep

We’ll have to hit our shots. It would help to have Martell. If they use a zone to good effect, we might see a three guard lineup with Rudy as a threat to knock in some 3s.

I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.

by jscot on Jan 16, 2009 3:37 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

And/or Travis at the 4 to help loosen things up.

I still can’t wait to see Roy, Bayless, Martell, LMA, and Oden on the floor at one time.

by upper left corner on Jan 16, 2009 8:31 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Of course your right, but I want to argue the point anyway......

…….nobody gets to the NBA by being chopped liver. I get that.

However, Bayless has unusual physical gifts, a bright mind, an unquenchable work ethic, and fierce competitiveness. Taken together, I think that he has a much better chance than most of figuring out how to win.

By contrast, someone like Sergio is very skilled, but I don’t see him having the physical prowess to ever dominate on the court.

Trout has the freakish physical skills, but seems to have a hard time figuring out how to use them.

I think Batum has the kind of unusual physical gifts and the tough nosed competitiveness to become an elite player.

I guess my point is that I see Blake and Sergio as having physical limitations that they will never overcome. Blake is a fierce competitor and has done everything he can to maximize his talents, but I don’t think he is ever going to be a great defender, because he does not have enough speed or strength.

I guess I see Bayless as having a very high ceiling. Whether or not he reaches that ceiling remains to be seen.

by upper left corner on Jan 15, 2009 11:11 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Absolutely true about Bayless

Not necessarily going to comment on the other players much so as to not spray this thread to kingdom come with various folks arguing about the other players when it should be a Bayless-oriented night.

Here’s the rest of the story…the road-map if you will to him becoming a winner and a regular rotation player. It contains some obstacles, so be forewarned. This is what Jerryd will have to face/overcome to reach that ceiling that you (and the Blazers) see:

First, and most immediately, he’s going to have to develop an outside shot. As soon as Saturday you should begin seeing opponents play him for the drive, meaning they’re going to back two steps off of him and shut him off, daring him to shoot. If he can’t hit they’ll never do anything else and his effectiveness will wane. Nobody, not even Kobe or LeBron, scores in the style Jerryd scored tonight on a consistent basis. That’s not because Jerryd’s better than they. It’s because he surprised the Nets. That won’t happen for long. In this he will probably mirror Sergio who, when he was starting out, compiled some astonishingly high assist totals until the league started playing him for the pass and dared him to score off the dribble. His performance hasn’t been the same yet.

Second, he’s going to have to develop more of those true point guard skills. Brandon is not going to play point full-time for this team in the foreseeable future. Bayless is going to have to take the place of a true point guard, with all that entails. Unless he’s going to be a Travis-like fourth-quarter only guy he won’t be able to hide their lack. This takes a long time even for point guards that come to the position naturally. Score-first guards have a notoriously hard time mastering them. If he doesn’t achieve this, not only will he not fit well with the team for major minutes he’ll simply be guarded to score every time he gets the ball. See Point 1.

Third, he’s going to have to learn the intricacies of the defense. He’s already ahead of any point guard we have as a physical defender but the defensive skills and flow are still to come. This also takes a while.

Even when most of that is achieved he still faces another harsh reality: guys who are 6’3" (ish) and have scoring as their main attribute have a hard time becoming stars in this league. There are some, but there are far more who fail. That’s simply because it’s near impossible to be a 6’3" shooting guard and play major minutes. You just can’t defend or score on guys who are 3-4 inches taller and boast the same skill set. For everything yet in the promise we still don’t know if Jerryd will be a major contributor or one of those guys about which we say, “He had a great set of attributes…if only he had been a few inches taller he would have been all-world.”

One of the things we need is that Corey Maggette/Andre Iguodala/Jerome Kersey type who is just chiseled and buffed and athletic and bulls you over and dominates. If Jerryd can give us some of that at his height and position I see a great future for him. But I can’t even begin to guess whether he’ll achieve that, even after watching him score 23 tonight.

—Dave

by Dave on Jan 15, 2009 11:33 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, but Bayless should be in the rotation, now.

Thanks for the lengthy reply. Most of what you say makes sense to me.

Bayless was a good shooter in High School and at UA (40% from 3); he was not a one-trick-pony. We have heard repeated reports that he shoots well in practice. That suggests that nerves and internal pressure are the likely source of his shooting woes. Clearly, he has to be able to hit the pull-up or the step-back in order to open things up for the drive.

He also needs to show that he can catch and shoot. This seems particularly true while Martell is out. Blake’s catch and shoot prowess has been vital to our success. If Bayless can be good enough to keep defenders honest, and if Martell can come back and help spread the floor, I think we will be extremely difficult to defend.

Clearly, Bayless has a long way to go as a distributor. Who knows how far he will develop. I think he has shown some promise with his passing off the drive, but he doesn’t seem to have a clear idea of what he wants to accomplish when he tries to initiate the offense. Obviously he needs to get better, the question I have is how good does he have to be? He needs to complement BRoy; he doesn’t need to be Steve Nash. It remains an open question in my mind about how much Brandon can cover for Bayless’ limitations as a distributor.

Defensively, I don’t think it will be long before Bayless’ advantage in speed and strength make him our best defensive option at the point. I see poor defense at the point as the teams #1 deficiency. Neither Blake, nor Sergio, can generate much on ball pressure, neither can fight through screens and neither is quick enough to recover when they go below a pick. Bayless isn’t there yet, but he has the tools and the attitude to do better.

Your reply suggests that Bayless needs to make substantial improvement to just to get in the rotation. I think it would be coaching malpractice to send this kid back to the bench. Even if you argue that on balance Sergio’s game is more complete, an argument that I think is increasingly difficult to sustain, how can you not see Bayless’ potential as being greater than Sergio’s? If Bayless has a high probability of becoming the player we need at the point, shouldn’t we be giving him the time he needs to develop?

This is the last year the Blazers have without expectations for a deep run in the playoffs. This is the year to make player evaluations and develop our young talent. If you buy this line of reasoning, how can you keep Bayless off the floor?

by upper left corner on Jan 16, 2009 12:22 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

+9000

your last paragraph in particular is how I have been feeling for a good chunk of the season. We have already been developing three rookies this season with extremely high ceilings, we have a fourth rookie that the powers that be feel also has a high ceiling (at a position we are in need of help at no less). So why is it that we are only developing 3 of them and not all 4? I am personally of the hope that we see Rudy, Batum, Bayless and Oden all in Blazer Jerseys for years to come, and if all of them are going to contribute a year or two down the line more playing time over the rest of the season would be huge for Bayless’ development.

The end is in the beginning and yet I go on....
-Beckett

by eyeotiger on Jan 16, 2009 12:47 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Your last paragraph

This year, it would be a very, very good idea to actually make the playoffs, and while I am pretty optimistic, I wouldn’t say we have it locked down.

Furthermore, I would say that Jerryd is only particularly effective next to Brandon right now, and when Steve is healthy, I’ll take Steve at this point.

Next year? Sure, next year we want a deep run in the playoffs. But next year, we’re going to stroll into the playoffs. If we drop a few games early in the season because we’re giving Jerryd some time to develop, it’s no big deal. This year, if we drop a few games in mid-season trying to develop Jerryd, it might hurt a lot.

I’m not trying to call the shot, I don’t know what is best, but I certainly can see the case for holding him out (except for spot minutes and injury cover) for this year. If Nate thinks Sergio brings more as our backup this year, he ought to stick with Sergio, at least until the playoff spot really is locked down.

I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.

by jscot on Jan 16, 2009 3:42 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I am not saying start Bayless. Give him 15 minutes a game.

I am saying that it makes sense to give Sergio’s minutes to Bayless, and I would suggest that it might make sense to give him most of those 15 minutes with Roy on the floor. That will help them build chemistry together and will help cover for Bayless’ limitations. Think of it as a variation of how Nate uses Batum.

I think building confidence is a gradual process. Bayless needs to play now, so the coaches can work with him to overcome his limitations. By this summer, he will have a good idea of what he needs to work on in the off-season.

I don’t think the drop-off in the short term is going to be that serious. Sergio’s productivity has fallen over the past month anyway. If the substitutiuon pattern puts Blake and Rudy on the floor together I don’t think that will disrupt the second unit as much as just inserting Bayless next to Rudy.

by upper left corner on Jan 16, 2009 8:24 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I think the issue people are having

is that you could take Bayless’s name in this post, and simply replace it with Sergio, and you’d sound exactly like sergioFTW for the past couple years. Both guys have limitations that they need court time to work through. You could point to Sergio’s game against the Nuggets (I think) his rookie year and compare it to this past one for Bayless and arrive at a similar conclusion, but for Sergio.

Sergio may be in his third year, but only two years older than Bayless, and when you factor in that last year was basically a lost year for him, it’s not hard to think they both have similar room to grow.

Personally, I’m in favor of both of them seeing more court time, but it’s indisputable right now that Blake gives us the best chance to win night in and night out, and I’ll never fault the team for giving us the best chance to win games.

by Royster on Jan 16, 2009 8:41 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Wow, just wow!

Trying hard not to bite on the “homerism extraordinaire” accusation.

Look, I get it that Blake is vital to the teams current success. Particularly with Martell out. I get it that Sergio is a gifted young athlete and that he is a far superior distributor to Bayless at this point,

What I am arguing, is that Bayless has more potential as a fit with BRoy. What I am arguing is that Bayless has physical tools that will help him be a far more effective defender at the “1,” and I see PG defense as the most glaring deficiency of the team. I am arguing that Bayless’ presence on the floor will help open up the 3 for Rudy and Trout, and eventually for Martell. Bottom Line, if Bayless is the guy who has the best chance of being our long range solution, why don’t we start that development process now?

I am open to a good discussion on all of these points. I don’t appreciate, and don’t think my comments deserve, the dismissive comparison you are making. Argue with the substance of my comments rather than labeling me as some kind of blind homer.

by upper left corner on Jan 16, 2009 9:15 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I think

your comments are predicated on the assumption that you don’t think it would be that big of a drop-off to give Sergio’s minutes to Jerryd (once Steve is back).

You may or may not be correct in that, and we can’t really make that assessment as well as Nate can.

If the assumption is correct, your conclusion is sound, and I don’t fault your logic. I consider the assumption unproven at this point. The primary reason for that is that I don’t know that Jerryd will be as effective in the backup role (with the second unit guys) as Sergio is. I think he can be much more effective TODAY in the starting unit than Sergio — but that doesn’t mean I’m persuaded he’ll run the second unit anywhere near as well.

I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.

by jscot on Jan 16, 2009 10:40 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed....

I am suggesting that Bayless get Sergio’s minutes, but that Nate try to adjust his substitution pattern so that most of Bayless 15 minutes would come with BRoy on the floor. Having Blake on the floor with Rudy would help reduce the negative impact on the second unit.

I agree that this is speculative and unproven. It might be a total failure. I’m just throwing this out as an idea that may merit experimentation. Obviously Nate is the guy who will make the call.

 I am just interested to know if others think this idea is workable.

by upper left corner on Jan 16, 2009 11:03 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry, I personally didn't mean it

to be dismissive. I guess you’ve given up on Sergio a little more than most of us to take it as an insult that an argument for Bayless could even be compared to an argument for Sergio.

Like below, or in another thread recently, even sergioFTW said something about Bayless being a great prospect and needing minutes, so I think the accusations of his fans being “blind homers” is a little overblown.

Personally, I’m not as high on Sergio as some of those guys, and I’m apparently not as high on Bayless as you yet. Both of those guys have chances to be great, though, and like I said in my apparently insulting post, Bayless definitely needs minutes, but my point was that, while his last game was huge, it’s still only one game, and we’ve seen similar flashes from guys who have shown it to be more the exception than the rule.

If Bayless goes 2-10 in each of the next 5 games, will we still be talking about being able to sneak minutes for him and still win games? Maybe not, but is finding him minutes in the best long-term interests of the franchise? Of course. In exactly two games this season, Bayless has been our best option in the back court off the bench. I want to see more from him, like I said, but I’d also like to see a little more extended burn for Sergio as well, which is why Blake’s injury could be a little bit of a blessing in disguise for those two.

Again, sorry if I insulted you, I was just trying to point out that the case could be made either way. I firmly believe that the guy that will fit best alongside Roy will be the guy who becomes the better player overall. Probably that’s Bayless, but maybe that’s Sergio, I’m open to looking at all possibilities.

by Royster on Jan 16, 2009 10:47 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Thoughts and a clarification

Sorry if I was a bit touchy. I think what bothered me was that I see SergioFTW as a “player fan.” By that I mean he is emotionally attached to a player and advocates on behalf of the interests of that player.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with being this type of fan, but I don’t think of myself as being in that vein. I see myself as a fan of the team. I have no emotional attachment to Bayless; I just think he is going to be a very good player. I am trying to be empirical and analytical in my comments, rather than just waiving the flag in support of “my player.”

Thanks for your reply, no offense taken and no disrespect towards Sergio or his fans intended.

by upper left corner on Jan 17, 2009 9:23 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

This is what I see as the biggest failing of fans.

Dave takes the time to succienctly lay out the road Bayless has before him, and yet there are fans that still jump onto a dirt track, thinking to short cut their way to where they want to go.

Physical abilities alone don’t gaurantee a good defender. Somehow, I doubt Bruce Bowen is the fastest, strongest, longest, quickest SF in the league. But he’s probably still one of the best defenders. If physical ability was all it took, Greg Oden would already be all world. The fact that Bayless may have the best physical tools of Portland’s PG’s and be a smart hard working guy does not mean he’s ready to step in as a starter and play defense to Nate’s level of satisfaction. There is a lot to learn. Anyone want to take a guess at how many defensive setups the Blazer’s employ? How many keys they have for when to switch and when to stay? How about the fact that they play 29 other teams and need to know the strengths, weaknesses and tendencies of most of the players, as well as the offensive and defensive schemes each team runs and how to recognize them?

And that’s just what Bayless has to learn on the defensive end. He also has to llearn all the things Dave pointed out above on the offensive end. So yes, Jerryd does have to show a substantial improvement in order to get major minutes. How much depends on how high in the rotation you are aiming for him.

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Jan 16, 2009 7:25 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Excuse me! I think you missed my point

I don’t think my response qualifies as blind homerism. I did not say that Bayless should be starting. I did not say that Bayless has arrived.

I made a relatively coherent and hopefully cogent argument for Bayless supplanting Sergio, even if Sergio’s game is a bit more complete (again, that is an arguable position). Give Bayless 15 minutes a game with Roy on the floor and let Blake play the rest. It would be a little like Batum.

I don’t think that is taking short cuts. It is recognizing that Bayless is going to need time to develop and we should start the process now.

by upper left corner on Jan 16, 2009 8:14 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

anh, your a homer

i mean, i think your ultamatly right, just not how you seam to think you are.

Man, we should forfeit before roy’s hammy explodes, knocking him into LMA’s ear who loses his balance and hits Greg’s knee… - HurraKane212

http://www.nba.com/news/miles_10_080919.html

by maid tu rek on Jan 16, 2009 8:17 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

nah

Man, we should forfeit before roy’s hammy explodes, knocking him into LMA’s ear who loses his balance and hits Greg’s knee… - HurraKane212

http://www.nba.com/news/miles_10_080919.html

by maid tu rek on Jan 16, 2009 8:17 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Care to interpret?

How do you think I am?

Do you disagree with my argument that if Bayless is the guy with more potential we should start helping him develop it?

by upper left corner on Jan 16, 2009 8:27 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

no, i agree, its time.
Do you disagree with my argument that if Bayless is the guy with more potential we should start helping him develop it?

Man, we should forfeit before roy’s hammy explodes, knocking him into LMA’s ear who loses his balance and hits Greg’s knee… - HurraKane212

http://www.nba.com/news/miles_10_080919.html

by maid tu rek on Jan 16, 2009 8:28 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I have no argument against developing Bayless.

But how do you know that isn’t what McMillan is doing? It’s easy to sit on the sideline and say that Bayless needs to play more. How else will he get better? But McMillan has more responsibility than seeing to the development of one player. He has an entire team to develop. He als has games to win.

I come down on the side the believes McMillan and his staff is a better judge of where a player is at and how capable he is, than fans are. I doubt that his selection of Rodriguez as the backup PG was arbitrary. More likely it was because Sergio demonstrated in practice and exhibition games that he was the better option. If I believe anything about Nate, it is that he believes you have to earn minutes. He won’t just hand them to you.

Bayless has been given a great opportunity with Blake getting injured. Minutes are available by default. Now it is up to him to make the most of them. If, in Nate’s estimation, he does, then you can be assured he will continue to get more time. The key phrase is “in Nate’s estimation”. Not that of the fans.

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Jan 16, 2009 10:29 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

of course you’re right, but we need to fantasize that our opinions matter, and it gives us something to argue about.

"Bayless is awesome." -Clyde Drexler

by pxilpooshr on Jan 16, 2009 10:31 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

.....and I think you are about to see Nate change his mind

It made sense to give Sergio the back-up minutes to start the season. Now I, and a lot of other people, think we are at a point where it makes sense to change.

Sergio got a chance to play, which helped Rudy with his transition. It also increased Sergio’s trade value after his difficult year last year. Now, that it is becoming increasingly clear that Bayless has a better chance to be a long range fit with BRoy, it is time to change.

I realize that others have a different view, and am happy to discuss the situation, but I think it was a bit condescending for you and others to accuse me of blind homerism.

by upper left corner on Jan 16, 2009 10:49 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Coach better hope

there’s never a blaze threatening his house.

“Fire, Nate!”

“Yeah…yeah. I’ve heard that before.”

“No…no! FIRE, Nate!”

“Blah blah blah. Which one of your favorite players am I not giving enough minutes to?”

“Nate!!! FIRE! FIRE, NATE!!!”

“Look, I have a winning record this year so unless your last name is Pritchard, shut up. Say…what’s that smell?”

—Dave

by Dave on Jan 15, 2009 9:42 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Very funny, Dave

Or should I call you by your other name, TradeNateToTheThunderNow09 ?

by Kaboomm on Jan 15, 2009 9:52 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I think you should set up a charity event.

Fans contribute $100 to play one on one with Nate. They get 5 minutes (per $100).

Two caveats – no ref and they have to take a lie detector test where the question is “Have you ever stated that Nate is a poor coach, not the right coach for the Blazers or he should be fired?”

Three actually. They have to sign a liability waiver.

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Jan 16, 2009 7:31 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

brilliant

Man, we should forfeit before roy’s hammy explodes, knocking him into LMA’s ear who loses his balance and hits Greg’s knee… - HurraKane212

http://www.nba.com/news/miles_10_080919.html

by maid tu rek on Jan 16, 2009 8:20 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Come on

don’t you know that Dave and sergioFTW are the same person? I thought that was common knowledge.

by Royster on Jan 15, 2009 9:43 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Dave, you really have more criticism for Bayless than for LMA?

Bayless shot 11 fts, LMA 0 on 19 fg attempts.

Boomshakalaka

by jksnake99 on Jan 15, 2009 9:40 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

NEWS FLASH

jksnake harped on LMA’s free throws. Make a note of it, because it’ll never happen again.

"West just flipped Roy's switch to 'Hide the women and children'"
- tmundal, Nov 29, 2008 9:11 PM PST

by GustyJ on Jan 15, 2009 9:48 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

sorry

I was just surprised that Dave found more to criticize in the 20 year old rookie than in the supposed 2nd cog (until Greg develops) in our big 3.

I apologize for being a broken record though. I recognize you guys are sick of it.

Boomshakalaka

by jksnake99 on Jan 15, 2009 9:49 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Not more to criticize

rather an observation that takes more explanation than “Lamarcus stayed out on the perimeter” which is immediately evident to anyone who has seen Lamarcus’ game and doesn’t need three more sentences to clarify.

—Dave

by Dave on Jan 15, 2009 9:52 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

We WANT him on the perimeter a lot

for the reasons you mentioned.

But it sure would be nice if he’d drive it to the basket 3-4 times a game, too.

Low-post? Check, he does that some time, so teams have to prep for it.

Jumper? Check, often enough to keep the D from collapsing.

Drive to the hoop? Would be nice if it happened occasionally.

I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.

by jscot on Jan 15, 2009 10:05 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

When Oden comes into his own

all of a sudden this perimeter play from Lamarcus (with a few added trips into the paint probably) is going to look like pure gold.

—Dave

by Dave on Jan 15, 2009 10:16 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

again, I hate to harp on it...

… but LMA just isn’t as good a shooter as you think he is. Take a look at his hotspots. He’s just not a consistent perimeter shooter.

Boomshakalaka

by jksnake99 on Jan 15, 2009 10:18 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Consistent enough

that teams are respecting it more than you are. No one is leaving him wide open out there. As long as he’s consistent enough to draw defenders out, it does it’s job.

I’ll tell you why he’s not more consistent. It’s because they are respecting the jumper too much. They don’t have to respect the drive, so the jumper isn’t as open as it should be. That’s why he needs to drive to the hoop. It would make his percentage on jumpers that much better, and draw a few fouls as well.

And Dave is right about the value when Oden becomes an offensive threat. Pure gold.

I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.

by jscot on Jan 15, 2009 10:38 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

yes.

because most “twin towers” situations do not feature players whose skills seem likely to complement each other this well.

ignacio

by ignacio on Jan 15, 2009 10:46 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You get a big fat Rec for this

I don’t comment a lot, but when you look at how this team is being put together, that is exactly what LaMarcus needs to do. He will be a huge compliment for Roy and Oden and will probably lead the team in scoring.

"I saw him in the face" Sergio's quote on the latest alley-oop to Rudy.

by blazermaniac32 on Jan 16, 2009 6:31 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It seems to me that Aldridge is still growing, albeit slowly. His game has gotten a little tougher, and he has played deeper in the post more ofter this year. Still not often enough. The thing is, he just isn’t a power forward. You can’t lament that the chicken won’t fly. Playing deep post just isn’t in his talent set, but it may become part of his skill set.

That said, he’ll always default to the 15-18 foot jump shot in pressure situations. That’s who he will always be. In Nate’s scheme it seems like that is an important offensive weapon. There is some talk about the general lack of midrange shooting in the league.

I know you’ve heard all this before, and I don’t begrudge you for dogging on LaMarcus, but he is a decent if somewhat unconventional offensive weapon. His defense on the other hand, well that’s just unforgivable.

"Bayless is awesome." -Clyde Drexler

by pxilpooshr on Jan 15, 2009 9:57 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

oops, I just posted the three sentences that weren’t needed to clarify. Sorry.

"Bayless is awesome." -Clyde Drexler

by pxilpooshr on Jan 15, 2009 9:59 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

this sums up my feeling on LMA too

i just wish he could put the ball on the floor like Bosh

honor rasheed wallace

i like ike

by Zaron5551 on Jan 15, 2009 10:05 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Just wanted to throw my 2 cents in and say that LMA isn't really a great FT shooter

So while it sounds nice him getting to the line, until he can shoot FT …yeah….

The guy definitely has room to improve.

Blazer Fan

by leeroyjenkins on Jan 16, 2009 7:14 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

75% career, 75% on the year

That’s not great but it’s at least pretty good.

by nikolokolus on Jan 16, 2009 8:23 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

BAYLESS.

There, just had to say it.

Very impressed. I’d like to see him continue to prove me wrong like that. He looked great tonight.

Catalina-Wine-Mixer.

by ArbyOSU on Jan 15, 2009 9:40 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Nope

Put the recaps of Sergio and Oden side by side. Compare the expectations. Terrible writing.

by vangogh on Jan 15, 2009 9:43 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

very different expectations… one is a big rookie who hasn’t played in a year… the other is a third year player who had all summer to work on his weaknesses after being left off his national team

by danielfarrell on Jan 15, 2009 9:55 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Love this off the AP game report re the Bayless DUNK

The play most people will see on the highlight film will be his two-handed dunk with 3:20 to go that put Portland ahead 95-89.

"It was crazy," said Brandon Roy, who led Portland with 29 points. "That’s what we have been expecting from him. He does it in practice and he finally got one down in the game. He put it on his head. He was so excited I don’t think he knew he got fouled."

by The Thinker on Jan 15, 2009 9:43 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I was thinking...

… would any other player have dunked in that situation? Rex got the ball in the corner, at the 3 pt line. Is there any other Blazer that wouldn’t have shot the jumper or tried a little dipsy-doo layin instead of going strong like Rex?

Boomshakalaka

by jksnake99 on Jan 15, 2009 9:47 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Travis would have probably tried.

"Respect everyone, fear no one." -TP

by Arby on Jan 15, 2009 9:49 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

MAYBE

but I doubt it.

Boomshakalaka

by jksnake99 on Jan 15, 2009 9:50 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Sometimes he would

Sometimes he wouldn’t.

He dunked on Boston.

You never know what Travis will do. Neither does the defense. Neither does Nate. I don’t think Travis has a clue what he’s going to do, either.

The NBA. Where Travis happens.

I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.

by jscot on Jan 15, 2009 10:09 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

The baseline dunk

reminded me of what Kevin Johnson used to do routinely for the Suns. Bayless is not as quick as Johnson (who is?) but he’s a lot stronger.

—Dave

by Dave on Jan 15, 2009 9:53 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

KJ

Man, he was so good. I loved to watch him.

There is probably no more terrible instance of enlightenment than the one in which you discover your father is a man — with human flesh.
Paul Muad'Dib - Dune (Frank Herbert)

My Translation: My Dad is a dude just like me, and my sons are dudes like me also. I love that.
Season Tix: Section 315, with my sons

by johnv59 on Jan 15, 2009 10:04 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

love/hate

loved to watch him, but generally was watching him against the Blazers, so I hated seeing the results of his stellar play.

A very underrated player.

Rule #1 of nitpicking is to get it right.

by douglast on Jan 15, 2009 10:53 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Me, too

but that’s not KJ, even so.

I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.

by jscot on Jan 16, 2009 3:43 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It was tonight

He faked a three then went baseline for a dunk.

Martell also likes that baseline move when available.

by Timmay! on Jan 15, 2009 10:04 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yea

Nic got a nice sideline dunk also, I forgot about that…..

There is probably no more terrible instance of enlightenment than the one in which you discover your father is a man — with human flesh.
Paul Muad'Dib - Dune (Frank Herbert)

My Translation: My Dad is a dude just like me, and my sons are dudes like me also. I love that.
Season Tix: Section 315, with my sons

by johnv59 on Jan 15, 2009 10:07 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It's definitely one of the highlights of the year

There is probably no more terrible instance of enlightenment than the one in which you discover your father is a man — with human flesh.
Paul Muad'Dib - Dune (Frank Herbert)

My Translation: My Dad is a dude just like me, and my sons are dudes like me also. I love that.
Season Tix: Section 315, with my sons

by johnv59 on Jan 15, 2009 10:01 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

buzzkill

Jeez, Dave. We get plenty of cold showers up here in the NW, no need to dampen our spirits about Bayless’ great game. Here’s my take:

It was great to see Bayless resemble the player we saw in Summer League tonight. It’s not any more realistic to expect these nights consistently from Bayless than it is to expect them from Oden. However, offense is so much about confidence, and it is not a stretch to think we will now see more 10pt+ games from him and occasional 20pt outbursts if given the playing time. And the timing could not be better, as I would not be surprised to see Roy take some more time off the way he was rubbing his knee.

All great scorers are fearless about shooting and tend to look selfish and silly at times as they enter the NBA. It’s that undying belief that the shot is going in and that they can score against anyone that allows them to be great. There is no reason to expect he won’t be a great scorer. The question that remains is will he be a winning player?

Bring back the Uncle Cliffy!

by hawkblogger on Jan 15, 2009 9:48 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

no need for bayless to adjust his game when he continued to draw fouls and make his free throws. we badly needed his points tonight. thought he played a near perfect game given the circumstances. did as well on defense as could be hoped and showed us new things on offense. A+

by Ben. on Jan 15, 2009 9:58 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I was thinking something similar to this

We don’t need to force Bayless into a mold of what a PG “should” be but rather we should build around his strengths (not to say that weaknesses shouldn’t be improved). We need his skill set out there, we need to go hard to the rim. It’s a tad early to say this now, but with a few more games under his belt I think I will be more comfortable with Bayless hogging the ball and going for the rim than seeing Outlaw do his thing. For 1, it’s much harder to defend Bayless because Outlaw often fades away and second, it’s just a higher percentage look.

I think the court awareness, passing, and defense will all come for Bayless, maybe not to the degree that we often fantasize about (the perfect PG next to Roy), but that’s why you have a 15 man roster, so you can mix and match skills to find what’s working.

"It’s a good ol’ fashioned Rip City beat down!"

by Magnum on Jan 15, 2009 10:07 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Can't give an A+

without better defense, but definitely an A. The offense was just what was needed. If we could get that many FTs out of the PG position regularly, we would be very hard to beat.

I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.

by jscot on Jan 15, 2009 10:12 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

given the circumstances and expectations up until tonight: A+
given the expectations going forward in the short term: A
given the expectations going into next year: B
given the expectations for his career: B-

by Ben. on Jan 15, 2009 10:19 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Expectations?

I’m one of the “Bayless gives us a Big Four” guys. But B-? If Jerryd gives us a game like that every game for his career (point a minute, 6-9 shooting, 11-11 FTs, 3 assists in 25 minutes) he’ll be Hall of Fame. That was an A game no matter expectations, even if the D wasn’t that good.

I’ve got high expectations, but yours must be insane.

I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.

by jscot on Jan 15, 2009 10:44 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

he will be playing 35-40 minutes a game.

if he’s getting beaten to the basket like a rookie in 5 years that’s a b-. especially given his work ethic.

by Ben. on Jan 15, 2009 10:50 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

At point a minute

that would be 35-40 ppg and 5 apg. I’m not sure I’d call that b- even if his D reeks….

But I agree, his D is going to be better and better. He’s the real deal.

And his passing and court vision is going to improve, because he’s got the work ethic to develop it and the smarts to know that is key to success.

I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.

by jscot on Jan 15, 2009 10:55 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

don’t get me wrong, im not saying he needs to avg 1.5 points a minute for his career to be a success… its way easier to avg a point a minute in short playing time, that doesn’t translate linearly…. but anyway that’s a side topic…

my point was the expectations game.

he didn’t even get the start. and he does what he did out there. that’s an A+ given the circumstances. it was an A+ because instantly the expectations for him have changed. it went from pregame not being able to beat out sergio to start (coming off a 1-11) and praying he doesnt get absolutely murdered by harris to “well he averaged a point a minute, was incredibly efficient, had only one turnover, played good but not great defense” and was one of, if not the key, to victory.

yesterday, if offered that as a hypothetical everyone would give him an a+. now that we just watched it unfold and believe in his potential, suddenly our expectations kick in and we demand more.

he’s got the potential to make tonight look like a b- showing on a consistent basis.

by Ben. on Jan 15, 2009 11:05 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Fair enough

On the expectations, A+ makes sense.

Although I think five years from now, if he had a game like that, we’d say it was a pretty good game even with the defensive problems. Ultimately, the high efficiency offensive production overshadows the defense. The game still comes down to who puts more points on the board. And a dunk like that is worth more than two points, both for emotional impact on the game and entertainment value.

I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.

by jscot on Jan 15, 2009 11:12 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

indeed — a dunk like that is worth 2,600+ youtube views in 2.5 hours to be exact!

signing off for the night…

by Ben. on Jan 15, 2009 11:13 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Pleasant dreams...

I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.

by jscot on Jan 15, 2009 11:16 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'd say it's worth at least 3

if you count the and-one :)

by pualo on Jan 16, 2009 12:00 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

You shouldn't

I don’t think he was even touched. There’s a reason why Brandon said Jerryd didn’t even realize he’d been fouled….

But I’ll still rec you for a good laugh.

I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.

by jscot on Jan 16, 2009 3:44 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Replay

Shows that Bayless might have been breathed on, not really touched. I think the refs have bought into the Summer league hype and are giving JBay the calls (or no calls in the case of his charge) already.

Even without the and one that was a pretty dunk though.

by Zaig on Jan 16, 2009 10:23 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Bayless was great -

Yet another phenomenal draft pick breaking out.
I DO believe I detected a well deserved SMILE breaking onto the BAYLESS FACE during the post game interview. I’m seeing him thinkin’ “YES, I CAN play my game here in the NBA ! This is gonna be great !” At least that is what I am thinkin’. Just give this team time. It’s gonna happen.

by Berkeley on Jan 15, 2009 10:01 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Bayless On Defense

Bayless on defense down the stretch against Harris was the most impressive. He contained Harris in the last few possessions.

by Balian on Jan 15, 2009 10:19 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Into Overtime

Blazer's Edge Ambassador to The Dream Shake Blog
LMA had a decent game!
36:21 Mins 10-19 FGs 1 Off 6 Rebs 2 Ast 1 Blk 20 Points - LMA vs Nets 1-15-09
B-REX ROCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! RRRRROOOOWWWWRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
25:20 Mins 6-9 FGs 11-11 FTs +5 3 Rebs 3 Ast 23 Points!!!!!! B-Rex vs Nets 1-15-09

by LaMarvelous on Jan 15, 2009 10:29 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

horrible no call by the refs

they’ve handed the Nugs two games this week. Billups CLEARLY kicked the Mav in that game… by the letter of the law, that’s an automatic offensive foul.

And Grant Hill was tripped and whacked on that drive… ugh.

by Cablinasian on Jan 15, 2009 10:30 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah

Boomshakalaka

by jksnake99 on Jan 15, 2009 10:32 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Great game

Its a real high bar in the west this year

by southern oregon on Jan 15, 2009 10:44 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Dallas is in a world of trouble

Right now, they are the leading candidates to finish 9th, and there isn’t really a close 2nd. Nobody is safe except the Lakers, but its Mavs fans who should be the most worried, by far.

Boomshakalaka

by jksnake99 on Jan 15, 2009 10:45 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Don't forget Utah

just lost in some state just north of Texas.

I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.

by jscot on Jan 15, 2009 10:46 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

OKC has been playing very well lately, with the exception of 1 bad game in Minny

Other than that they’ve played well in their last 10 games or so.

Still a bad loss for Utah though.

Boomshakalaka

by jksnake99 on Jan 15, 2009 10:47 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I second that

OKC is looking better by the week.

by Timmay! on Jan 15, 2009 10:48 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

i'm glad they are because any talk of them competing

with the steve mix 9-73 76ers would be absurd.

ignacio

by ignacio on Jan 15, 2009 10:56 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

They won in Chicago, no mean feat.

I mean, Portland did it, but we’re good.

Whereas Cleveland….

I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.

by jscot on Jan 15, 2009 10:49 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I want them to starting wining more

well not against us but everyone else. They already scare me with that young core. KD, Westbrook and jeff green thats a heck of a back court in the future! Couple that with the fact that they will probably be in the running for blake griffin. yikes!

by jcoop85 on Jan 15, 2009 11:16 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

They may have a bright future.

I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.

by jscot on Jan 15, 2009 11:20 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Denver gets their 2nd gift win of the week

Kevin Harlan mentions that 8 of 12 February games are on the road for the Nuggets. Hmmm…. can we grab the division lead by March 1?

Boomshakalaka

by jksnake99 on Jan 15, 2009 10:52 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'll be surprised

I think Denver wins the division. We’ve got a chance, but having Blake out is likely to cost us a win or two.

I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.

by jscot on Jan 15, 2009 10:57 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Not to mention

Denver is playing pretty inspired ball, considering that Melo has had a pretty substandard year.

That Billups guy is who I hope Jerryd one day turns into.

by nikolokolus on Jan 16, 2009 8:26 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I was thinkin Utah but man with all the injuries it doesnt look good.

But I still can’t hop on the Denver bandwagon :/

Blazer Fan

by leeroyjenkins on Jan 16, 2009 10:08 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Billups?

Bayless molds his game more after the guy that Billups was traded for.

by Zaig on Jan 16, 2009 10:24 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Ehh

Billups still played like Billups back then, just a far inferior one.

by Zaig on Jan 16, 2009 3:18 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Jerryd

is playing like Jerryd now, just a far inferior one.

;)

I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.

by jscot on Jan 16, 2009 11:22 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The schedule does give us some chances

to make up ground.

I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.

by jscot on Jan 16, 2009 10:43 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Even without Blake

5 of next 7 against losing teams. The two winning teams are home games. (Granted Cleveland/Utah won’t be easy.)

by Zaig on Jan 16, 2009 10:52 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Utah

will be on a back to back, and historically they don’t do well on those. We should get that one.

Cleveland will be tough, and we’ve got a couple of banana peel games (at Charlotte, home to Milwaukie), but we should not do worse then 5-2, and all seven are winnable.

I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.

by jscot on Jan 16, 2009 11:24 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Would it be out of the question for Roy to Run The O?

I mean if bayless dosen’t pan out at the point? I personally think he can, but if not what would you guys think about roy just running the point on offense and Bayless (if he developes in the coming years) at the 2. They could switch for D. I personally think it could work. Roy takes the ball at the end of Games and he can do it. Roy dosen’t make that many plays off ball any way. He usually just runs Iso.

by jcoop85 on Jan 15, 2009 10:31 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I could see it

especially if the Blazers use a motion/flex offense that doesn’t require the PG to be Steve Nash out there

Jerryd Bayless = Marlo Stanfield
- Early stage Marlo at this point, but Rex is the emotionless killer new to the game. He will take over, and there will be causalties – it’s just a matter of time.

by blazeraddict on Jan 15, 2009 10:39 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I was thinking the same thing

“With our style we don’t need Steve Nash” While I made a sandwhich ;) Seriously though its been done before with similar style players. I think Roy touching the ball every trip is also a plus.

by jcoop85 on Jan 15, 2009 10:49 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Not the whole game

Jerryd needs to learn to adequately run the offense as a PG, then switch roles to the 2 when Brandon starts to operate.

I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.

by jscot on Jan 15, 2009 10:47 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Why?

I mean I would like to see Bayless run the point, but I guess what I am looking for is a good reason? I guess I want someone to tell me exactley why or why not this could happen. The plus and negative side of such a move. Not so much about bayless. Just leave him out of it for the most part. I think with are style the point just needs to set things up and drive and dish of the pic and roll. I think Brandon is at his best with the ball in his hands. I don’t see him honestly do to much off ball.

by jcoop85 on Jan 15, 2009 10:55 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

by the way

I am not trying to argue. It just really interests me and I would like to hear some insight on it.

by jcoop85 on Jan 15, 2009 10:58 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Of course not

It’s a good question, and I’m just giving my (hopefully informed) opinion.

I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.

by jscot on Jan 15, 2009 11:01 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

when you drive and get fouled, youre getting hit and/or knocked down

by some very big strong athletes. it takes a toll. that’s why it’s always been the lazy man’s game to shoot jumpshots away from contact (a la, sometimes, rasheed).

ignacio

by ignacio on Jan 15, 2009 11:04 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

To save wear and tear on Brandon

If you watch, yes, he’s best with the ball in his hands, but he rarely plays the whole game that way.

One of the reasons he is so effective in the 4th is because he paces himself, even when playing a lot of minutes, so he doesn’t wear down by the end of the game.

And we don’t want him worn down over the course of the season, either.

I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.

by jscot on Jan 15, 2009 10:59 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

True

He does take a beating at the end of games when they start the iso plays. He reminds me of marion barber in a weird way. kind of takes a little to much of a beating sometimes. I wish he wouldn’t throw himself around so much sometimes.

by jcoop85 on Jan 15, 2009 11:05 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I know you normally don't comment on coaching in recaps

But a few notes about Nate tonight:

- Getting that T in the third quarter was a very smart move. The refs seemed to call differently afterward (subjective) and Portland’s energy picked up in response. Portland was +14 after that.

- Nate made adjustments in the second half! His second half adjustments have been less subtle in the last 10 games (likely related to how poor our first-halves have been for the last 10 games). His adjustments helped turn the game around.

The best part was when Nate took Bayless out in the 4th. There was a bunch of “NOOOO” comments in the thread. But Nate changed to small ball, moved all 5 guys to the perimeter, and let Brandon work. Just like that, Portland took control. then Bayless came back in shortly after, and helped finish it off.

One thing I always expect from Nate is that he’s putting players into a position to succeed, playing to their strengths. I don’t always think he’s the master of this. But he did great work in the second half tonight.

- You’re right, Nate kept Oden out because of the pick and roll problems, and Lopez was causing match-up problems. But we might not talk about that if his offense made up for it. This is two straight games where we aren’t taking advantage of Oden in the post. Lopez was a mismatch, but so was Oden’s strength on offense. NJ took advantage, but it never came into play for Portland.

Oden spent part of the time switching onto guards on defense, and the rest of the time not involved in the offense. Part of this is Oden’s inexperience, though the defensive switching problems are systemic. On offense, there’s no reason we can’t run, say, 5 more inside-out plays per game for Oden, who actually has an eye for the pass.

Oden and Sergio were my “must watch” guys tonight. Repeatedly Oden ran down court, did a pick, rolled to the hoop, then basically stayed out of the way until rebounding the inevitable jumper. Unless he’s simply not running Nate’s planned offense (which doesn’t look like the case), he’s pretty much being ignored on offense. My best guess is that it’s about Nate making sure the pressure isn’t on Oden, so he’s only doing cleanup duty.

by Timmay! on Jan 15, 2009 10:32 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Good guess
My best guess is that it’s about Nate making sure the pressure isn’t on Oden, so he’s only doing cleanup duty.

Nate moves really slowly on developing people and putting them under pressure. He wants them to succeed when he focuses on something with them. I’m guessing we won’t see a lot of offensive focus on Greg until later, maybe not even until next year.

Ohio State didn’t run their offense through Greg much, either. I’d love to see it because of his passing, but maybe we have to wait a while. I can’t believe Nate is unaware of the potential here.

I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.

by jscot on Jan 15, 2009 10:53 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Nate and the whole coaching staff don't get nearly enough credit

All Nate has done since he got here is set guys up to succeed. And even though a lot of fans don’t seem to see it, I think he’s gotten more out of Brandon, LaMarcus, Travis in a shorter period of time than any coach could.

If you don’t think he’s done a bang up job then all you have to do is look around the league at the other super young teams of the league and see what their track records are for simultaneously developing guys and winning is.

I think at this point we have to give the coaches the benefit of the doubt that their (sometimes frustrating) tactical moves are part of a broader strategy.

by nikolokolus on Jan 16, 2009 8:35 AM PST up reply actions   2 recs

Agreed

I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.

by jscot on Jan 16, 2009 10:44 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

If you don’t think he’s done a bang up job then all you have to do is look around the league at the other super young teams of the league and see what their track records are for simultaneously developing guys and winning is.

The concept of comparing young teams coaches seems sensible, but it’s really comparing apples and oranges. Until those other coaches get to chance to develop and play the same players KP traded for (which is, of course, impossible), we don’t know how talented they are compated to Nate and his staff. Otherwise, you’re placing the onus on failure/success on the coach, when the GM may have simply given them less young talent to work with. The teams could be the exact same average age, but an inferior GM may have provided less talented players to work with.

As much as we rave about KP, I think we underestimate that that this is really his team. His decisions, his trades and his evaluations produced this team. I know that seems obvious, but I think it’s lost in translation sometimes.

If, for the last three years, Nate was coaching one of the other very young teams in this league, they’d probably look exactly as they do now, no better no worse. If one of those other coaches were here instead (except Nellie), given Paul Allen’s resources and the same edicts from KP, we’d probably be doing similarly well. Nate’s an average coach.

I think at this point we have to give the coaches the benefit of the doubt that their (sometimes frustrating) tactical moves are part of a broader strategy.

Even while I don’t agree that Nate’s work is above-average, I do agree that some of the areas we’re frustrated about are indeed tactical moves by the coaching staff. I’m also working to give them the benefit of the doubt there. I understand he’s working on the bigger picture while trying to win games.

by Timmay! on Jan 16, 2009 1:07 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I think Nate's pretty awesome personnel-wise

I know the Sergio guys will disagree, but for the most part the way he’s handled all these young guys is pretty amazing. Whatever gripes we have with his offense etc, you gotta give him credit for what he has done with these guys. Let’s be honest, there are some coaches who would’ve taken this gift and turned it into a heap o steamin poo

Blazer Fan

by leeroyjenkins on Jan 16, 2009 10:07 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Anyone else get the feeling tonight

that Sergio is done in Portland? Bayless does strike me as more of a 2 guard than a 1, but either way, we now have another iso/attack style player who gets minutes. The thing about Sergio’s assist oriented attack is that it requires collaborators who are on the same page. I now tend to think that KP makes a trade before the deadline.

by Blazin' on Jan 15, 2009 10:57 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Not based on one game

Sergio has been ahead of Jerryd in the rotation, which tells me that he’s probably been doing more, or at least more consistently, in practice, etc.

We saw the future in this game, and it’s bright. But we still want to make the playoffs this year, and we probably need Sergio to accomplish that.

In my mind, there have always been two questions:
1) How quickly will Jerryd take the starting spot?
2) Will Steve be able to hold off Sergio for the backup spot?
3) Will KP have enough doubts about the current crew that he gets impatient and pulls the trigger on a trade?

I think this game says the answer to question 1 is “not that long”, probably by next year at the latest. It tells us little about question 2 (but Sergio better really raise his game while Steve is out). It greatly increases the likelihood that the answer to question 3 is no, KP will probably stay patient and not trade for a PG.

I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.

by jscot on Jan 15, 2009 11:06 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

betcha a nice cold beer

that Sergio gets moved when Steve is back. Because:

1. No way Nate puts Sergio ahead of Blake in rotation.
2. Sergio has not given up on having a career in the NBA and thus will not accept third string.

by Blazin' on Jan 15, 2009 11:12 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Depends on what is available

KP isn’t just going to give Sergio away.

No guarantee that Bayless has won the second string spot. This game says yes in spades. The Philly game says no.

There are more games to come before Steve is back. I wouldn’t write off Sergio yet. I won’t be surprised if he is moved, either. The next few games will be interesting.

I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.

by jscot on Jan 15, 2009 11:15 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

That was 3 questions

The answer is dont trade anyone important and home grow a team

by southern oregon on Jan 15, 2009 11:13 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

jeeze, its an allstar party at the BEdge

of all the nights to be completly exzauhsted. oh well, ill read it all tomarow

Man, we should forfeit before roy’s hammy explodes, knocking him into LMA’s ear who loses his balance and hits Greg’s knee… - HurraKane212

http://www.nba.com/news/miles_10_080919.html

by maid tu rek on Jan 15, 2009 11:16 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

The NBA. Where Travis happens.

So true. One never knows.

ignacio

by ignacio on Jan 15, 2009 11:24 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Nickname (albeit unflattering) for JBay:

Junior.

Because I can barely tell him from BRoy when he’s headed for the rim with the ball.

by Blazin' on Jan 15, 2009 11:30 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

and if you hear what sounds like a cat getting shot mid layup

it’s Broy ;)

The end is in the beginning and yet I go on....
-Beckett

by eyeotiger on Jan 15, 2009 11:36 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Hey

Bayless had a pretty darn good “throw your hands in the air and scream like your mama spanked you” moment when drawing a foul tonight. I want to say it was on a rebound but it may have been on a drive. In any case he got the whistle. The young fella is already ahead of the curve!

—Dave

by Dave on Jan 15, 2009 11:53 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

well i'll be darned

imitation really is the highest form of flattery

-tiger

The end is in the beginning and yet I go on....
-Beckett

by eyeotiger on Jan 15, 2009 11:54 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

(And no, I don’t hit my cat)

by Norsktroll on Jan 16, 2009 2:57 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

I’ve never actually seen a cat in mid layup, and have no clue what they sound like if they are shot at such a time.

I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.

by jscot on Jan 16, 2009 3:46 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You can devise an experiment to find out.

Get a cat.

Get a friend.

Have said friend toss cat into the air.

Shoot said cat with your choice of firearm.

Listen for sounds made by cat.

One hint. You may need several cats, as it might take a bit of practice to be able to listen for the sounds made by the cat, as the noise of the shot may over ride it.

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Jan 16, 2009 7:47 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

This might be a whole other thread, but . . .

Can he stop shouting “And 1!”? It sounds really dumb when he doesn’t get the call and the other team is already fast-breaking in the opposite direction. And it feels like a kind of showboating that I never associate with Roy other than this.

PS: The cat comment was hilarious.

by Kaboomm on Jan 16, 2009 6:24 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah except

he started getting more calls when he started shouting that.

"Bayless is awesome." -Clyde Drexler

by pxilpooshr on Jan 16, 2009 10:27 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

every game this season we see something new

often good, sometimes bad, but we’re getting excellent value for our entertainment dollar

ignacio

by ignacio on Jan 15, 2009 11:55 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

"Repetition is change," as Brian Eno said. And I believe it.

But there’s been a lot of outright change.

ignacio

by ignacio on Jan 15, 2009 11:58 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Glad to see that my signature is working.

Sergio + Rudy = 16
Sergio + Bayless = 16
Batum 8+8=16

by amlmart1 on Jan 16, 2009 6:25 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

You do as well in math as in language.

Blazers look very happy in the bench when their teammates are playing well. Great guys, good karma.

Sergio + Rudy = 16
Sergio + Bayless = 16
Batum 8+8=16

by amlmart1 on Jan 16, 2009 6:43 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

It’s a happy go lucky team. As a fan from Spain, were you sad to see Bayless succeed?

I'm a Blazers fan and If you ban me from your blog, I'll sue you!

by tominhawaii on Jan 16, 2009 7:24 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

There might be overtime

I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.

by jscot on Jan 16, 2009 8:10 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Bayless wasn't that bad in the Philly game

I like his defense and his energy. It sounds cliche but the rest of the guys fed off of it.

Travis was better than his stats show, 13 points, 7 rebs, and hardly any mistakes is a great game for him.

LMA and his jumpers… it’s hard to argue when he’s draining them but imagine if he had an inside AND an outside game. He’d be unstoppable. 6 rebounds is ok…Brandon had 8….

All in all, pretty good stuff. Nice rebound from the lackluster effort @ Philly.

Blazer Fan

by leeroyjenkins on Jan 16, 2009 6:59 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Also imo don't underestimate Roy's opinions

And he was gushing.

“I just wanted to yell with him,” Roy said. “He was yelling, and I was like, ‘No, no — come here. I want to yell too.’”

is a great quote.

Blazer Fan

by leeroyjenkins on Jan 16, 2009 7:15 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Pretty unprofessional if you ask me.

Why doesn’t he ever yell with Sergio? Roy is supposed to be a leader.

I'm a Blazers fan and If you ban me from your blog, I'll sue you!

by tominhawaii on Jan 16, 2009 7:26 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks

It was taken on Kilauea Street.

I'm a Blazers fan and If you ban me from your blog, I'll sue you!

by tominhawaii on Jan 16, 2009 8:53 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You're right :(

Trade him immed.

Blazer Fan

by leeroyjenkins on Jan 16, 2009 10:03 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Jerryd gets his teammates riled up

He’s like a travel sized “home crowd” you can take on the road.

by nikolokolus on Jan 16, 2009 8:37 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Bayless had an awesome game

If he starts to hit his jumpers and can continue not turning the ball over, there is no doubt in my mind he is our future starting PG. He is a good fit with brandon in that he can let Brandon be on the court and lead the team but take the pressure off of Brandon having to create constantly on offense. I can see Brandon running the point with Bayless in as just a Roy-paced, take it easy, protect the ball, move it around kind of PG, which would actually give him a little rest while allowing him to stay on the floor.

"It's like, 'Urrrrrrgh!'" Rodriguez says, his cupped hands turning into fists. "It is a good feeling. Good feeling."

by sergioFTW on Jan 16, 2009 7:23 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

i've never been anti-bayless

in fact, i’ve been a fan of what he will bring to this team. you, my friend, set up the dichotomy of Sergio vs. Bayless.

"It's like, 'Urrrrrrgh!'" Rodriguez says, his cupped hands turning into fists. "It is a good feeling. Good feeling."

by sergioFTW on Jan 16, 2009 7:41 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, I see it as an "either - or".

In my perspective, you’ve come across inflexible with sergio, which is why I’m surprised by the above comment and appreciate something positive about somebody else -

by hotstuffdb22 on Jan 16, 2009 7:47 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Jscot has already shown that you are an "either - or" guy ...

… when you are not being an “or – either” guy.

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Jan 16, 2009 7:50 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yes.

One of my brothers and his family came out to visit a couple, three years ago in June. I took them out to the Gorge, only it was foggy and rainy most of the day. You couldn’t see more than 20 ft from Vista Point. So the following year when I was out with my wife, I took some photos to send to them, to show them what they missed.

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Jan 16, 2009 10:14 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

He's always been positive about Bayless

I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.

by jscot on Jan 16, 2009 8:12 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yep. they are completely different players.

and fit with completely different Blazer units. The dichotomy makes no sense.

Boomshakalaka

by jksnake99 on Jan 16, 2009 12:04 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

fouled? no.

What is awesome about this photo right here is that despite the caption, Sergio did not actually have any free-throws in this game, meaning the above was not called. though I’m pretty sure Sergio did make this shot. I guess this no-call evens up with the phantom foul on that Bayless monster dunk.

"It's like, 'Urrrrrrgh!'" Rodriguez says, his cupped hands turning into fists. "It is a good feeling. Good feeling."

by sergioFTW on Jan 16, 2009 7:49 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

yes,

he was also hacked on another play, and the ball happened to go to outlaw who then hit a 3… nice photo

by hotstuffdb22 on Jan 16, 2009 7:54 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Sergio played allright

I mean he had a decent game given his minutes.

Do you ever wonder what Sergio would do under, say Mike D’Antoni?

Blazer Fan

by leeroyjenkins on Jan 16, 2009 10:04 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

i do

and it makes me cry.

"It's like, 'Urrrrrrgh!'" Rodriguez says, his cupped hands turning into fists. "It is a good feeling. Good feeling."

by sergioFTW on Jan 16, 2009 10:37 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I wonder what Sergio would do under a lot of other coaches, not just Mike.

I’m not sure he’d be more successful.

But I’d sure love to see them give him a chance. I’d be watching for sure.

by Timmay! on Jan 16, 2009 1:10 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

For the JBay bandwagon

Got bored after the game, if you don’t know the song Age of Aquarius, you fail at life. Does this mean I think that JBay is the better PG? No. It just means his name has a better ring to it!

When Barack becomes the President
And life is found, inside of Mars
Then Rex will guide the Blazers
And he will lead our stars

This is the dawning of the Age of Jerryd Bayless.
The Age of Jerryd Bayless.
Jerryd Bayless! Jerryd Bayless!

Dunks that are simply astounding
Slashing and cutting abounding
No more acts of indecision
An offense run with precision
Western Conference domination
And the Blazer’s liberation
Jerryd Bayless! Jerryd Bayless!

When Barack becomes the President
And life is found, inside of Mars
Then Rex will guide the Blazers
And he will lead our stars

This is the dawning of the Age of Jerryd Bayless.
The Age of Jerryd Bayless.
Jerryd Bayless! Jerryd Bayless!

by Zaig on Jan 16, 2009 10:33 AM PST reply actions   1 recs

Yahoo!

A headline story was mentioning some old canyon having a good sign of past life on Mars so that popped into my head. That and I wanted to keep some of the original lyrics in there!

(I never realized before that that song is so short and simply repeated 8000 times.)

by Zaig on Jan 16, 2009 3:45 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

That song

and about 99% of all pop songs.

I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.

by jscot on Jan 16, 2009 11:26 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Oops

meant as a replay to Zaig about the song being short and repeated 8000 times.

I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.

by jscot on Jan 16, 2009 11:27 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

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