Joel Injured
by BlazersOrBust on Jan 1, 2009 12:05 PM PST
48 comments
Sorry if this has already been posted somewhere, but I don't see it...this morning's Oregonian reported that Joel has "an avulsion of the scaphoid on his left wrist". Apparently that's when a chunk of bone comes off and chills out in your hand for a while. He's questionable for Friday's game against the Hornets, but much more concerning to me than Joel possibly missing one game was the 6-8 weeks required for recovery. He's going to try to play through it, but if he can't, then he's *not* gonna be day-to-day. I'm experiencing nightmarish flashbacks to last year when we only had one big man, except worse because Greg can't stay on the court. Ugggggh.
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Don't Worry
It is on his shooting hand
That 70's show:
Kelso: Red! I guess ur wondering why I'm going through your stuff. See, I needed to borrow your saw...because I need to chop down a tree...because there's something stuck in it...an animal...a rabbit...and I would like to return that rabbit to the wild so it can lay its eggs!
Red: Kelso, rabbits don't..............how the hell did a rabbit get up a tree?
Kelso: uhhhhhh Eric threw it up there.
Red: Eric threw a rabbit up a tree?
Kelso: Yeah, he's a sadistic bastard.
by 92wastheyear on Jan 1, 2009 12:08 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
now now
Joel’s really worked on his free throws and despite his awkward delivery is putting em down at an acceptable pace. Joel is tough as nails, don’t fret.
The reason a dog has so many friends is that he wags his tail instead of his tongue.
by bow4meow on Jan 1, 2009 1:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
We've been talking about it in the Junk Drawer
Plus there’s a link to it in the fan shots.
But no biggie, this is a pretty big story since it affects the next few months.
by Timmay! on Jan 1, 2009 12:29 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
There are many silver linings to this cloud
Just when Greg is starting to step up, he’s now GOT to. That is good. Greg will play more. We will see some big games out of Greg in the near future.
Joel rests a few games and is less likely to get injured later in the season, so he’ll be ready for the stretch run.
Channing or Ike will get a little more burn, which gives one more chance for one of them to show he can do the job, and for more evaluation.
Might cost us a win or two over the next few games. Hopefully he’s only out 2-3 before he starts to play a little bit.
If you can't convince them, confuse them -- Harry Truman, U.S. President
by jscot on Jan 1, 2009 2:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Good point
Hopefully the Celtics game (where Greg and others had to raise their games to make up for Roy’s absence) will be a catalyst for increased production if Joel has to miss time.
Bayless has been testing the fences for weaknesses
by blazeraddict on Jan 1, 2009 3:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think the team, and our fans, have been trying to keep the pressure low on Oden as low as possible, and frankly, he has been somewhat of a disappointment. But Greg along with all the Blazers on Tuesday, knew the pressure was on without Roy, and Oden really stepped up both in a basketball sense and his attitude on and off the floor. Without Przybilla, he’ll feel that same pressure and i’ll think we’ll see some more GO Nasty.
M, period. Fresh, comma.
by manzell on Jan 1, 2009 4:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Pressure is bad
when you are also physically struggling. Now that Greg’s physical condition is starting to come around, pressure may be a good thing for him.
People tend to think, based on the last 25 games, that Greg is mentally/emotionally fragile. That’s not the player we saw in the NCAA Championship. That didn’t look like a guy who folds under pressure.
What we saw early this season was largely physical — learning to get his body to do what it used to do, when it isn’t working as well as it used to. That’s very discouraging, but two things happen — first, you get used to what isn’t working as well, so you don’t get as down about it, and second, things start to work better.
I think he’s mostly past those mental/emotional barriers now, and a little pressure might be a very good thing indeed.
If you can't convince them, confuse them -- Harry Truman, U.S. President
by jscot on Jan 1, 2009 10:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Shavlik
to the rescue?
Chris Dudley for three!
by wilbjammin on Jan 1, 2009 1:44 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I say we cut his minutes anywhere we can to make playing through it easier. Frye, and Diogu can take a few more minutes if need be.
by pklym on Jan 1, 2009 1:46 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
He only plays 40% of games anyway.
Joel Pryzbilla
00-01: 33 games played
01-02: 71
02-03: 32
03-04: 5
04-05: 76
05-06: 56
06-07: 43
07-08: 77
by Nick Van Excellent on Jan 1, 2009 1:52 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
so....
what does that have to do with it? pryz is still a valuable part to this team. having him out might make greg a little more cautious as he doesn’t have joel to back him up. i’m hoping channing can step up with regular minutes if joels out like he did last year.
Honor Terry Porter
by Philthyanimal on Jan 1, 2009 3:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It has a lot to do with it. (IMHO)
People are worried about Greg being injury prone. Pryzbilla has been injury prone for the past 8 years. As he approaches 30 his injurys will probably only get worse and he will never be as valuable to the team as he is right now. I’ve been on the trade Pryzbilla bandwagon for a while. Joel is a legit starting center. You don’t need a legit starting center on your second unit; especially one that has a history of injury problems.
As much as Joel has contributed to the success of the Blazers this year, he probably won’t be a big part of the team two years from now. The Blazer’s success in the playoffs won’t be determined by a 31 year old backup center who misses 40% of games. I think they would be better off trading him while he still has some gas in the tank and before he turns into JPEC.
by Nick Van Excellent on Jan 1, 2009 4:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
aging backup centers
have been pretty useful on teams. alonzo came up pretty big for the heat during their championship run as well as dikembe for the rockets (when yao was healthy or hurt). if we can get something for him i guess we should consider it. i would think by the time joel ages greg should be a top tier player. joel would just be an insurance plan.
Honor Terry Porter
by Philthyanimal on Jan 1, 2009 5:08 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
+1
Homer: "Yikes....a bear is eating my father!!"
Selma: "I'm Selma"
Homer: "A talking bear is eating my father!!"
by 92wastheyear on Jan 1, 2009 6:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The solution to this predicament of injury prone centers isn't to trade Joel Przybilla; instead, ...
Kevin Prtichard should focus his attention on somehow getting a serviceable third-string pivotman to round out the depth chart. Undoubtedly, a veteran interior presence who can play vigorous man-to-man low-post defense and won’t complain about fluctuating playing time would be an optimum fill-in for Greg Oden or Przybilla in the case of injury.
Courtney Sims, who’s been an outright monster in the D-League thus far this season for the Iowa Energy, could fill that role. Another option could be the recently released Steven Hill, who proved in training camp that he’s a totally dominant defender in the paint. Neither Sims nor Hill are veterans, however, so I’m wary of them in that regard — as well as the fact that Sims has a reputation for not being a diligent worker, while Hill is known for his ineptitude on offense — thus, Pritchard ought to look elsewhere. Ultimately, though, my guess is that Pritchard will select a young, up-and-coming pivotman during the first round of the 2009 NBA Draft, with Andrew Ogilvy or Cole Aldrich being the most pragmatic options.
Yet, regardless of the solution to this quandry, the thought of trading Przybilla is an appalling idea.
by AK1984 on Jan 1, 2009 8:25 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Maybe.
In 2010 we will be paying Joel 7.4 million a year. What are the odds Joel will be worth that in two years? I love Joel, but I think trading him might be the best course of action at this point. If Greg doesn’t pan out the Blazers don’t win a championship anyway. Joel probably won’t maintain his current level of play, meaning it’s very unlikely he will ever be as valuable as he is right now.
by Nick Van Excellent on Jan 1, 2009 10:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This summer
when we have the chance to reload via draft or free agency with a decent backup center, you may have a point. Even if it is borderline heresy to suggest it.
But I think Joel is vital to Greg’s development right now, and he’s vital to our chances at a playoff spot this year. And my preference would be to keep him as long as he’s willing to play 18-20 mpg. That salary is not very excessive for a quality big man off the bench, and I think it is likely he will still be worth that for 3-4 more years. His game is built on hard work and technique, not on crazy athleticism, so it isn’t likely to decline quickly.
And amazingly, the guy is still improving — his offensive play is so much improved over two years ago. Now that he seems to be catching the ball, I could see him developing an offensive shot or two this summer, and actually turn into a major threat to double-double off the bench every game. Especially if we start running him and Greg together for five minutes a game. That’s really scary stuff.
That doesn’t mean you don’t trade him. His trade value may go so high that you can’t afford to keep him on the bench for most of the game, if you could fill a major hole in your squad at another position. So a trade MIGHT make sense at some point, and maybe as soon as this summer. But you’d better get something very, very good in return.
I suspect Joel retires in Portland.
If you can't convince them, confuse them -- Harry Truman, U.S. President
by jscot on Jan 1, 2009 10:35 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I suspect...
that if they could get value out of him they would do it. Even so, I can’t see teams that are in rebuilding mode trading for a 30 year old center making decent money. The Blazers probably don’t want to trade him to a contender in the West and not many good teams in the East have anyone we want or could get.
by Nick Van Excellent on Jan 2, 2009 12:51 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Joel will retire in Milwaukee WI
Minor point, but since it was mentioned above I thought I’d point out that Joel lives during the off-season in Milwaukee WI where his wife is from, which is relatively close to Minnesota where he grew up. Yes, he likes Portland, but his family hasn’t made the full-time move here like Blake (or like Frye already saying he’ll live here after he retires).
My two cents is JP is worth keeping around for at least another year and maybe longer. He left college early, was injured a lot early in his career, but has hit his stride here in Portland and has improved almost every year. It would be hard to replace what he brings to the team for his salary.
put a body on 'em
by RayBourque on Jan 2, 2009 2:25 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Do you know how much Andrew Bogut is making? Do you know how much Oden will eventually make?
$7.4M for a Center who plays (well) is NOTHING.
"Now with a non-provocative footer!"
by timbo on Jan 2, 2009 1:06 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Which is why most teams don't have a legit center coming off the bench.
It’s just too darn expensive. The average salary for a backup center on a playoff contender in the Western conference is 2.9 million a year. Joel makes the most by far with only Diop even coming close. It makes more sense to stagger your power forward at center and rely on a cheap backup center for spot minutes. Denver for instance is pretty much just rotating three power forwards at the 5 spot. Huston doesn’t even have a legit backup center.
Playoff contenders in the West
Oden/Pryzbilla- 5.3/6.8
Dampier/Diop-10.1/6.0
Bonner/Oberto-3.2/3.5
Ming/Scola- 16.3/3.3
Bynum/Mihm- 12.5/2.5
Chandler/Armstrong 11.8/ 2.8
Okur/Collins 9.0/2.0
O’Neal/Lopez- 20/1.7
Hilario/Anderson-10.5/1.0
The Blazers might be better off trading Joel now while he’s playing the best basketball of his life, rather than waiting until he turns into a big injured expiring contract.
by Nick Van Excellent on Jan 2, 2009 3:02 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The Houston Rockets just signed Dikembe Mutombo, even though prior to that ...
the 6’6" Chuck Hayes did an admirable job defending reserve pivotmen despite his relatively small stature. Hayes, however, is so putrid offensively that it warrants him being pushed out of the Rockets’ rotation. Also, Luis Scola starts at power forward.
Matt Bonner, by the way, definitely isn’t a true center — for that distinction belongs to Tim Duncan, which is despite his disdain for being classified in such a manner — so that changes it up a bit on the San Antonio Spurs’ end of things.
Lastly, rookie Kosta Koufos out of Ohio State is Mehmet Okur’s backup at center for the Utah Jazz; that’s slightly amusing because Koufos is a Greek native, while Okur is Turkish. For whatever it’s worth, Jarron Collins has subsequently been regulated to a benchwarming role.
by AK1984 on Jan 2, 2009 3:17 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks.
I was looking at the Rockets roster trying to remember who played center when Yo Ming was injured. Duncan does play center a lot, although Bonner and Oberto combined still make less than what we pay Joel.
by Nick Van Excellent on Jan 2, 2009 3:31 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The San Antonio Spurs could stand to use a better third-string center, ...
as Anthony Tolliver has been craptastic with Fabricio Oberto sidelined by a foot injury. Between Tolliver and Ian Mahinmi, the Spurs’ third-string frontline is utter trash. Right now, though, my suggestion for GM R.C. Buford would be to waive the 6’8" tall Tolliver — whose contract is partially guaranteed for only $200,000 this season — and, subsequently thereafter, sign a veteran pivotman (e.g., Michael Doleac) who can satisfactorily fill out the roster.
By the way, Tiago Splitter — who’s been compared to the likes of P.J Brown and Jeff Foster — would look stunning in a San Antonio jersey next season; that’s especially true since Tolliver will most likely have his non-guaranteed contract waived sometime between now and the upcoming off-season.
by AK1984 on Jan 2, 2009 4:56 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Does any team have a good third-string front line?
Ours is Shavlik and whomever of Ike and Channing happens to be playing worse. They’re not exactly going to light the world on fire either
My HDTV is a JustinTV streamer who doesn't just use a webcam :(
by inroywetrust on Jan 2, 2009 8:30 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Now let's add those up:
Blazers — 12.1M
Mavs — 16.1M
Spurs — 6.7M
Rockets — 16.6M
Lakers — 15.0M
Hornets — 14.6M
Jazz — 11.0M
Suns — 21.7M
Nuggets — 11.5M
Whatcha worrying about, hippie?
It’s only chips and Paul Allen has lots.
"Now with a non-provocative footer!"
by timbo on Jan 2, 2009 3:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And the Blazers have good value for their money
Don’t make me say which team has the worst value for their money…
by Norsktroll on Jan 2, 2009 3:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Freeland?
It doesn't mean you should just because you can. Like Abraham and Ishmael, fighting over sand - it doesn't mean you should just because you can. That is a fact of life. - Adrian Belew
by 22baylor on Jan 2, 2009 12:20 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Freeland is not ready for the NBA, IMO. Need two years more playing in Europe.
But he might surprise me, I didn´t expect Batum to be ready either.
Sergio + Rudy = 16
Sergio + Bayless = 16
Batum 8+8=16
by amlmart1 on Jan 2, 2009 1:35 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Makes sense
If you can't convince them, confuse them -- Harry Truman, U.S. President
by jscot on Jan 2, 2009 2:06 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Freeland is not ready for the NBA, IMO. Need two years more playing in Europe.
But he might surprise me, I didn´t expect Batum to be ready either.
Sergio + Rudy = 16
Sergio + Bayless = 16
Batum 8+8=16
by amlmart1 on Jan 2, 2009 1:35 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Makes cents
If you can't convince them, confuse them -- Harry Truman, U.S. President
by jscot on Jan 2, 2009 2:06 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I seem a priest with these repetitions.
Sergio + Rudy = 16
Sergio + Bayless = 16
Batum 8+8=16
by amlmart1 on Jan 2, 2009 2:52 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I see what you did there…
My HDTV is a JustinTV streamer who doesn't just use a webcam :(
by inroywetrust on Jan 2, 2009 8:30 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Joel Freeland isn't a true center, but rather a power forward.
Nonetheless, Freeland should surely come over next season and, in consequence, be the Portland Trail Blazers’ third-string power forward. Yet, no matter whether Freeland receives most of his reps in practice or with the Idaho Stampede in the D-League, it’ll undeniably be much better for his development over the long haul than if he continues to play overseas.
by AK1984 on Jan 2, 2009 3:04 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
the recently released Steven Hill
Thanks, I was unaware of this development
I’ve been concerned re: the ongoing health of both Oden and Przy since the decision was made to keep Shav over Steve. Sure, Nate can use LMA, Frye or Diogu to backup Greg or Joel if the other is unavailable, but this should be the short-term exception (missing a game due to minor injury, or a part of a game due to foul trouble, etc) If either Oden or Przy were to miss a longer stretch of games, it would be better to have a true center backup, especially considering Nate’s comments following the Boston game (“we are not a physical team…except for Greg…and Joel”)
I would like to see KP reacquire Hill, and make the Frye/Diogu for Chris Wilcox deal. More interior toughness (and veteran experience) will be needed down the stretch and into the postseason
by two4larue on Jan 2, 2009 2:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
joel is less likely to get hurt
when playing backup minutes
ignacio
by ignacio on Jan 1, 2009 10:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
and good backup centers are rare
ignacio
by ignacio on Jan 1, 2009 10:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Looking at the match ups for the next few weeks
Channing might be able to make him self usefull,I hope he does
by southern oregon on Jan 1, 2009 6:55 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
A Thought
The only thing I might add to these posts is the observation that if Joel were to become the bakcup center and the backup PF, then he might have more value – and more playing time. Right now, Frye and Diogu will be in their final contract year next year, and we’re going to have to decide if we sign or trade them – because they’ll consume cap space if we don’t. And if we don’t want to pay $3 million or so for both a second team PF and a second team Center, then Joel might justify his salary by being as good or better as either of those 2nd team backups.
by Eben Calder on Jan 2, 2009 4:36 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Worse than that
They are both restricted free agents this summer… so next year isn’t guaranteed at all. THIS is a contract year for both of them.
by danielfarrell on Jan 2, 2009 7:03 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, Channing Frye and Ike Diogu are each about to finish up the last year on their rookie deals.
Neither Frye nor Diogu should be in the Portland Trail Blazers’ long-term plans, however, so I expect that both of them will not be tendered one-year qualifying offers — which’ll be worth $4,264,761 and $3,946,875, respectively — during the upcoming off-season. Shavlik Randolph ought to be rental for this season, too, for Joel Freeland should make his way over to America from Europe this summer.
For a team with five power forwards on its roster, it’s kind of shocking that four of them are unlikely to be on the roster a year from today. Frye, Diogu, Randolph, and Raef LaFrentz will all start new paths.
by AK1984 on Jan 2, 2009 8:10 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Raef is no longer a PF
If you can't convince them, confuse them -- Harry Truman, U.S. President
by jscot on Jan 2, 2009 1:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Can someone please tell me which hand?
The oregonian has stories that say it’s his shooting hand (right) and his left hand. His left hand was wrapped in the game on Tuesday. This is a critical detail. What’s the real answer?
by hawkblogger on Jan 2, 2009 8:36 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
It's his left hand
The Blazers initially reported that it was his right wrist, so a couple of stories in local papers were wrong at first.
by Corvid on Jan 2, 2009 10:09 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
whew!
big difference. I expect this will effect him most on post defense (you are taught to use your off-arm on the defender so your strong arm is free to deflect passes or block shots) and on catching passes. The biggest problem will be taking charges, which he does a lot. Your wrists take a beating when you fall backwards.
by hawkblogger on Jan 2, 2009 10:14 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
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