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Who’s the next Defensive "Stopper" ?

This is my first FanPost to Blazer's Edge ... Dave's post on defense prompted me to generate this one ...

Bruce Bowen has set the standard for years as the premier Defensive “Stopper” in the NBA. He continues to get the assignment on a nightly basis to try to neutralize the opposing team’s best player, because he often does just that. Bowen is 37 years old.

 

The next tier of Defensive “Stoppers” will almost certainly include the following players:

Raja Bell, Tayshaun Prince, Shane Battier, Ron Artest, Andrei Kirilenko, Stephen Jackson and Ime Udoka. Bell is the oldest of that group at 32 years old and Kirilenko is the youngest at 27 years old.

 

The question that I have is who are the up and coming Defensive “Stoppers” in the NBA ?

 

Martell Webster has a legitimate shot at leading that up and coming group. Martell has gone from “not having a clue about defense” in Nate’s words as a rookie, to being evaluated as a “good” defender by Nate after this last season.

 

However, Martell had better continue to improve on the defensive end of the floor, because Nicolas Batum is waiting in the shadows …

 

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I wouldn't say he has a legitimate shot.

Maybe a long shot. Nate has a lot of kind words to say about his players. He once called Luke Ridnour the next Steve Nash. I think him saying that Webster could become a defensive stopper has more to do with encouraging Webster than actually making a real prediction.

If somebody hits you with an object you should beat the hell out of them.-Charles Barkley

by Winchester on Sep 23, 2008 4:53 PM PDT reply actions  

I'M the next defensive stopper!

"Personally, I'd rather give an elephant a prostate exam on Chili Day." --Dave on rooting for the Lakers or Celtics

by MiledAnimal on Sep 23, 2008 5:00 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

I never knew

you looked like that.

The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.

by jscot on Sep 24, 2008 2:50 AM PDT up reply actions  

You can call me MiledStopper.

"Personally, I'd rather give an elephant a prostate exam on Chili Day." --Dave on rooting for the Lakers or Celtics

by MiledAnimal on Sep 24, 2008 9:15 AM PDT up reply actions  

Kirilenko...

I am not sure I would consider Kirilenko a defensive stopper. He is fantastic defender from the weak side and he attacks the passing lanes. His ability to stay with perimeter players is actually lacking.

Also, as much as I love Ime Udoka, I think he has yet to prove that he is a true “defensive” stopper. A stong, tough-minded defender, yes… a complete stopper yes.

Other than that, I agree with your list, and I will hope for the best with Martell. I think Batum is the one with more long-term potential though.

by The Graduate on Sep 23, 2008 5:13 PM PDT reply actions  

You're spot on ...

about Andrei Kirilenko.

Also, Ime Udoka is definitely included in that secondary level of lockdown perimeter defenders, with guys like Adrian Griffin, Trenton Hassell, and Quinton Ross — who, if Nicolas Batum had stayed overseas for another season, would’ve been a decent free-agent pickup — being his contemporaries.

by AK1984 on Sep 24, 2008 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

NIc Batum

Just kidding, though his potential on that end was one reason we got him. But it will take years to develop it.

Judging from defensive on/off stats, the next generation of good perimeter defenders (not looking at dominant inside men here) might include players like Josh Smith, Kyle Lowrie, Rajon Rondo, Thabo Sefolosha, Chuck Hayes, Josh Howard, Tony Allen, Gerald Wallace. Some of those can only stop guards, others could develop into guys able to guard multiple positions.

Webster didn’t even put a dent into the opposition last season (+0.9 Net, negative values are the good ones here).

St. Bayno's 120 Haiku Prospects: Nicolas Batum in the paint—prairie grass, blown by wind.

by Norsktroll on Sep 23, 2008 5:13 PM PDT reply actions  

Do you think we'll see Batum in there strictly for defensive purposes at key moments late in the game?

Will we ever see Batum strictly for defensive purposes? If so, how soon will this occur?

We’ll pick up your answers after the break.

________________________________________________________________________________

Whoo yeah!

Their 'thinking' is based not on critical judgment, but on what authority figures have said to them.

Many of them would attack France, Massachusetts, or the moon if the president said it was necessary "for freedom."

Highly compliant with social conventions, pro-conformity. Feel safer in the presence of powerful authorities. Often highly religious, zealous, dogmatic, moralistic, moderate to little education, narrow-minded, intolerant, highly prejudiced, hostile and bigoted towards minorities, bullying, mean-spirited, severely punitive, panic easily.

As distasteful as these qualities appear, for authoritarians they can be (secretly or even openly) very attractive.

by dwarfgoper on Sep 23, 2008 9:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

No, maybe in three years

maybe sooner if Martell or Outlaw get traded and we don’t get good defending SF

I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich

by hobobob on Sep 24, 2008 9:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

Chuck Hayes ...

is a rugged man-to-man interior defender, while Josh Smith and Gerald Wallace are guys who block shots as weakside help defenders and get steals by clogging the passing lanes like the aforementioned Andrei Kirilenko.

by AK1984 on Sep 24, 2008 12:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

new terminology

“he got straps” = he is a lockdown defender

know it, use it, love it

BRANDON ROY GET WELL SOON

by Ben Golliver on Sep 23, 2008 5:17 PM PDT reply actions  

I will take you up on that offer.

--

by CaptainSexyJacob on Sep 23, 2008 9:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ummm...I don't know about that...

Sounds more like you’re referring to someone in a gimp suit…or a straitjacket.

by DonkeyShins on Sep 24, 2008 8:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

Afflalo on the Pistons bench, he’s a serious defensive player. I think he’s their best stopper already (better than Rip or Tayshaun). I consider him a certainty to be an elite defensive two guard in this league for a long time.

I also think LeBron James is going to be one of the best perimeter defenders in the NBA next season. He’ll be taking his spot on those All-Defensive teams for years to come.

Thaddeus Young is a player with big potential on the defensive end, but I didn’t see him enough at small forward yet to get a feel for how good he is defensively at his natural position. He earned too many minutes at power forward for that. So the jury is still out, but someone to watch. His teammate Andre Iguodala is a top defender, and he’ll have an even bigger impact defensively at shooting guard rather than at small forward where he was at last year (love that idea of that combination defensively).

Julian Wright is a very strong defensive player. I think he’s very likely to become an elite stopper. I think he’s the best one-on-one perimeter defender on the Hornets roster already, they could have gone further if he’d played more minutes.

Tony Allen on the Boston Celtics bench is a very good defender already. There’s less certainty here about his ability to become a top level defender, but he has good potential in that regard. I think he’s the least sure thing of the players mentioned so far but someone worth keeping tabs on.

Anyway, there’s a few names that pop to mind

by NBR on Sep 23, 2008 5:25 PM PDT reply actions  

LeBron James being one of the best perimeter defenders brings up an interesting question

Is there any reason why a premier offensive player shouldn’t also be a permier defensive player?

by tingeyga on Sep 23, 2008 5:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

amount of energy expended

It is tough to be the man on both ends of the floor. If LeBron ever gets some real offensive help (I dont think Mo Williams is the answer) then LeBron could have more energy to expend on defense.

Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.

by jonestr on Sep 23, 2008 6:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ask Michael Jordan.

"Mister Oden is a very, very big human being." - Jerryd Bayless

by QualityPie on Sep 23, 2008 7:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

I agree completely

I think Kobe (no asterisk on this one) is THE best defender in the league. Because he plays every defensive possession with ultimate passion? No. Because he plays defense when he knows it will help his team win. The rest of the time he conserves his energy. After all, if you’re going to be in 16 races and you’re crushing everyone in the first one, why push yourself more than you have to? Kick back and just make sure you win.

"I think that the team that wins game five will win the series. Unless we lose game five."
Who else? Charles Barkley

by prezofdeath on Sep 23, 2008 10:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

Unless you're Michael Phelps

"I think that the team that wins game five will win the series. Unless we lose game five."
Who else? Charles Barkley

by prezofdeath on Sep 23, 2008 10:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

He must have been in 'conservation mode' then

When Rudy blew past him and dunked over Howard.

by DonkeyShins on Sep 24, 2008 8:37 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

He still won so I guess he knew more than we did

Both Teams Played Hard
Both Teams Played Hard
Both Teams Played Hard

by Kelsoballa on Sep 26, 2008 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

Aaron Afflalo ...

reminds me of a young Greg Buckner, which is a compliment regarding defense.

by AK1984 on Sep 24, 2008 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

Rudy F. Fernandez.

Heck, why not?

Jerryd Bayless has two emotions: Kill and Win.

"I think it’s going to be very beautiful game next year."
-Nicolas Batum

by rockingharder on Sep 23, 2008 6:20 PM PDT reply actions  

Batum should hopefully be good in a while if not now,

I heard a while ago on Wheels or ct. side that Batum blocked Travis’ shot, you know THAT Travis shot. Take that FWIW but that is pretty hard to do considering how high T can jump, of course he could just be out of shape and getting back into the playing groove.

I think that we need to find that LeBron or Paul stopper to be effective as he is they are the only players that could possibly derail our dynasty. K*be will be almost done when we start and will hopefully be the playing/minority owning Armani Jeans Milano.

Hopefully Bayless takes up that challenge is able to stay in front of Paul. We need to say that he cannot do it so he gets that fire up in his arse and works on nothing but D. We did a good job against last year holding him to 16.5P and 9A, so props go to Blake and Jack, and Bayless should be able to defend a better than Jack.

LeBron is the problem, he is only 23 and what I fear is if Cle has cap space in 10 and can make a run at Bosh, Wade or the multitude of other players that may be avalible. If LeBron paired with another legitimate star it could be another Blazers/Bulls late 80s, early 90s situation with Bron acting as Jordan and Wade acting as Pippen. Hopefully, much like the summer of 09, most of the players signed extensions and the pool will be depleted a bit.

If we get a perimeter D player, we need him to have the express goal of stopping Bron.

If we can get a D stopper to stop Bron, there will be nothing in our way to a dynasty.

The season cannot get here soon enough.

by SpyderRyder on Sep 23, 2008 6:39 PM PDT reply actions  

Which argues

for geting Battier while Batum grows into his large upside

by southern oregon on Sep 23, 2008 8:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

I have thought that as well,

that the age of our D stopper is not of that great a concern. Battier, Udoka and Marion asre all about 30+-a few years and some poeple worry, “They’ll be too old when this team hits their peak!!” Well that may be true but hopefully by then, B-U-M (I said bum HA) will have taught these yungins the vet secrets on how to win ball games and when they start to decline their contract will come to an end and we will let them go because we have Batum waiting in the wings to step right in and provide us another 5-6 years of solid D.

The season cannot get here soon enough.

by SpyderRyder on Sep 24, 2008 12:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

Wouldn't it be Lebron acting as Pippen and Wade acting as Jordan?

Just saying.

If somebody hits you with an object you should beat the hell out of them.-Charles Barkley

by Winchester on Sep 23, 2008 9:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

Positionaly I guess, but I was talking in terms of skill.

As good as Wade is Lebron will be better able to take over a game in that respect, the elite super-duper star that MJ was. I guess your way works also but I was talking more about star power.

The season cannot get here soon enough.

by SpyderRyder on Sep 24, 2008 12:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

Ask me. When I was 15 I once blocked 7 shots in one pick up game at the Metro Y

Forget the fact that they were against old men with enormous manboobs. I owned them. After the game they would not make eye contact with me. They just looked down at the floor as they left the court in shame.

And just for giggles I followed them into the locker room and approached one of the older men and snatched his baby powder container right out of his hands with an authoritative, “I think this is mine.” just to see how far into their heads I truly was.

I then started applying the baby powder to my arm pits right in front of them as I kackeled. Quickly, a herd of old men gathered around me in a circle and began snapping their fingers in unison. My bluff had been called.

Sensing my immediate doom I sized up my opponents and survyed my surroundings. Due to my years of training in the arts my instincts took over and I scaled the lockers and started doing random snap kicks into the air, screaming, “who wants some?”. Fortunately for me, a member of the staff heard the commotion and came and bailed me out.

I learned my lesson that day. I never played defense again.

The end

I'm a little confused by your tactics

by oderiferous emanations 74 on Sep 23, 2008 8:37 PM PDT reply actions  

When I was 15

I was blocking that many shots every day on my older bigger in laws and kin,I never quit playing defense.

by southern oregon on Sep 23, 2008 9:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

I thought *I* was a dork

"Personally, I'd rather give an elephant a prostate exam on Chili Day." --Dave on rooting for the Lakers or Celtics

by MiledAnimal on Sep 24, 2008 9:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

Dude, when I was 15

I was totally blocking like dozens of shots a game. They were all like “shooot” and I was like “SWAT” right back at them. Then I dribbled down the court like “boomboomboom” and dunked it “POW” right on them.

But that was when I was 15.

Word.

by joelor on Sep 24, 2008 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm well past 15 and I still block shots.

My 7 yr old nephew can’t score a basket against me in nerf ball. If fact, he usually starts crying about half way through the game and quits, after I’ve knocked him to the floor for about the dozenth time.

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Sep 25, 2008 9:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

Good form! I hope you tell him to suck it up and then beam him in the head

with the ball as he walks away. Then deny the whole thing to his parents. Good times.

I'm a little confused by your tactics

by oderiferous emanations 74 on Sep 25, 2008 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

Link?

"I think that the team that wins game five will win the series. Unless we lose game five."
Who else? Charles Barkley

by prezofdeath on Sep 23, 2008 10:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

Josh Smith

He is only 23 and one of the best defenders in the NBA. Right now he is an elite help defender, though I think he will be the next lockdown defender in the NBA. Other possibilities include: Jeff Green (OKC) Thabo Sefolosha (CHI) Corey Brewer (MIN) Anthony Randolph (GSW)

by Salem Stephen on Sep 23, 2008 9:43 PM PDT reply actions  

My thoughts exactly

How about Sasha Pavlovic (CLE), Gerald Wallace (CHA), and James Posey (NO) as well?

Kwame and Darko - Grizz '07-'08. The rebuilding is complete.

by RecordTOs on Sep 23, 2008 10:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

wow

how did it take this long for someone to mention james posey? underrated pickup for NO. some people say they paid too much for him, but he’s a huge asset for the hornets on the defensive end (and can hit the spot up 3 under pressure)…his absence will be felt in boston.

Afew years ago, a broadcaster once said Pryzbilla's name is "Polish for 'personal foul.'" Ouch.

by chrischa on Sep 23, 2008 10:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

Cause he said "up and coming" defensive stoppers?

Posey is already there at over 30 and older than e.g. Shawn Marion who was also not mentioned until now as far as I can see.

St. Bayno's 120 Haiku Prospects: Nicolas Batum in the paint—prairie grass, blown by wind.

by Norsktroll on Sep 24, 2008 2:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

ah, well I guess thats why it took so long!

my bad

Afew years ago, a broadcaster once said Pryzbilla's name is "Polish for 'personal foul.'" Ouch.

by chrischa on Sep 24, 2008 9:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

Although Sasha Pavlovic ...

is utterly useless on offense, he doesn’t get enough credit for his stifling defense.

The Cleveland Cavaliers have a well-rounded bench with Anderson Varejao, J.J. Hickson, Pavlovic, Delonte West, and Daniel Gibson playing behind Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Ben Wallace, LeBron James, Wally Szczerbiak, and Mo Williams. I’d still look for Danny Ferry to shop Szczerbiak’s expiring contract in an attempt to upgrade at shooting guard, which is a must if the Cavaliers expect to truly contend for a championship this season.

by AK1984 on Sep 24, 2008 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

Now now

I think he’s had a nasty dunk or two, and is a decent 3 pt. option.

Kwame and Darko - Grizz '07-'08. The rebuilding is complete.

by RecordTOs on Sep 24, 2008 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

And Tony Allen

Is a pretty good defender when he’s not fouling Billups for the loss.

Kwame and Darko - Grizz '07-'08. The rebuilding is complete.

by RecordTOs on Sep 24, 2008 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

Pavlovic ...

is an okay slasher, but that’s about it.

Last season, Pavlovic’s aggregated shooting percentages (eFG: 40.4% & TS: 43.4%) were god-awful by any calculation. That goes for his overall offensive production (PER: 7.28), too, which placed him at 398th in the NBA between such [sarcasm]transcendent luminaries[/sarcasm] like Brian Cardinal and Malik Rose.

by AK1984 on Sep 24, 2008 7:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

Pavlovic has got solid form, ...

but for some reason he can’t frequently drain it.

That reminds me of Pavlovic’s fellow countryman, Marko Jaric, except without the handles.

by AK1984 on Sep 24, 2008 9:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

As a fan of the former Sonics, ...

I can attest that Jeff Green is vastly overrated defensively. Green’s standing reach, 8’7", makes it impossible for him to adequately guard opposing power forwards, while his medicore lateral quickness allows for quicker wing players to constantly blow by him.

by AK1984 on Sep 24, 2008 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

I've got 3 names

GREG ODEN, LAMARCUS ALDRIDGE, BRANDON ROY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
omg how long til the season starts, I’ve got the jones real bad….

by Tyler Durrden on Sep 23, 2008 9:55 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

and three other names

Outlaw, Fernandez, Bayless

We cannot put up with this flagrant lack of accountability anymore.

by MT Suit on Sep 24, 2008 10:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

i think when considering who is going to be a great defender you have to break it into two categories

The first category is players who already play quality defense and have the physical ability to be a great defender. I would put Josh Smith into this category. The second category would be players who don’t necessarily play quality defense, but have the physical ability to play great defense. I would put Martell is this category.

TominHawaii is secretly a huge Jazz fan

by Zaron5551 on Sep 23, 2008 10:29 PM PDT reply actions  

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