Can Jerryd Pass??

by AndrewJ on Sep 23, 2008 1:14 AM PDT Comment 43 comments

First FanPost... This is kinda aimed at a less informed fan so don't mind the obvious info at the beginning.

Jerryd Bayless is one of the four Blazer rookies this coming season. Although he is generally thought of as a quality player, he has his critics. The majority of his criticism has come from his lack of a typical role to fill on the team. He has the size of a point guard but is known as a scorer instead of a distributor. He is a shoot first point guard and that tends to scare some basketball experts.

Today I was reading an article on Dimemag.com about the Blazers coming season. The article mentioned that Jerryd looked very "Wade-ish" during his summer league debut. Jerryd has always reminded me of Dwyane Wade so I thought it might be interesting to compare their stats in college.

Wade played college ball for Marquette University. His freshman year he did not play because he was not academically eligible. It wasn't 'till his sophomore year that he started playing (2001-2002) and that year he averaged 17.8 ppg, 2.47 spg, 6.6 rpg, and 3.4 apg. His second season he averaged 21.5 ppg, 2.15 spg, 6.3 rpg, and 4.4 apg. Jerryd on the other hand only played one year of college ball and in that year he averaged 19.7 ppg, 1 spg, 2.7 rpg, and 4 apg. Lets concentrate on their assist numbers so we can investigate Jerryd's shoot first mentality.

I think it is important to mention that Dwyane Wade is a superstar. He is so skilled that he has the ability to do what he wants on the court. He has mastered the majority of the different NBA skill sets that exist. Although he is known most for his scoring, he is also an exceptional passer, dribbler, and defender(when he wants to be).

Both Dwyane and Jerryd were the primary scorers on their respective teams in college and as the assist numbers show they did about the same job of distributing the ball. In fact, Jerryd was probably did a better job at throwing dimes because his numbers are from his freshman year where Dwyane's are from his sophomore and junior seasons. Stats don't always predict what an athlete will do throughout his career; however, in many cases they can be used to show an athletes possible potential. Just like Dwyane Wade, Jerryd Bayless could be an above average passer but in college the role he played on his team did not allow him to demonstrate that skill.

Only time will tell.

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Yes

He can pass.

But he is not gonna get 6+ assists.

Man I love tongue tacos - Mortimer
Only thing better is Trout on a stick roasted over an open fire - annthefan
I have a pic like that of my dog - tominhawaii

by Outlaw is Rejector on Sep 23, 2008 1:21 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

In college it's pretty clear he was rather a scorer than a playmaker

And when he drove to the basket, he usually tried to finish himself or draw the foul instead of kicking it back out. But he didn’t have that many offensive weapons besides himself on the team, Chase Budinger being probably the best one. So it’s somewhat hard to reach a conclusion on his passing skills, and we will have to see how much he can do surrounded by better teammates like Rudy, Outlaw and Frye (second unit) or Roy, Webster, LMA and Oden (first unit).

Don’t want to divert the attention of this post, but something else sticks out related to his assists: While his ball-handling was generally noted by scouts to be a strength his mediocre ratio of assists (4) to turnovers (3) also has me a little bit worried about his PG skills. Bringing the ball up court is his job and not something the other guard playing with him is supposed to do most of the time, and the pressure from opposing teams will be higher in the NBA. If he appears to be prone to turnovers, expect coaches to send ballhawks at him to try and get steals.

St. Bayno's 120 Haiku Prospects: Nicolas Batum in the paint—prairie grass, blown by wind.

by Norsktroll on Sep 23, 2008 3:38 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Part of his turnovers come from him not having many options to pass too.

In lots of cases, the best player on the team gets the most turnovers. This is only magnified when they are the ones who have the bring the ball up the court. Although the NBA defensive pressure is more I don’t think Jerryd will average more than 2 TOs, if that, with Roy and Rudy to pass to if he gets too pressured.

by Bskey on Sep 23, 2008 3:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I feel comfortable

Chalking that up to Freshman Ballhandleritis.

Derrick Rose averaged only .3 less turnovers, and only .7 more assists for a slightly better A/TO ratio. He also suffered from Freshman Ballhandleritis and will improve over time.

I’m comfortable overlooking the turnovers, because every young guy has them, and enjoy the 4 assists he averaged, which is a pretty good number for the college game, and especially for a guy who is also the tippety top scorer and focus of the defense on a team with no one else who is a real NBA player (I’m sure Budinger will be drafted, but SPOILER ALERT he won’t be very good) to pass to.

Bayless was in a purty bad situation there, what with the selfish Lute Olson ditching his kids and the injuries and lack of good players. I know it can seem like a post-draft rationalization, but we just have not seen Bayless in a setting where we can actually SEE if he can be a NBA PG.

I definitely think we have seen he will become (or already is) a NBA defender and BALLHANDLER, if not a playmaker, at the PG spot. That right there is a good fit for Roy, as long as Bayless can at least learn to run the plays.

I’m willing to give time for the rest, and withhold judgement for many months into the season. He is extremely young, and hasn’t played in a situation where any PG could prosper yet.

Something I’m surprised no one has mention, while we’re on the subject of Bayless— Joel Przybilla said on Courtside that Bayless is the best shooter on the team already. He said ‘no offense to Marty’, but Bayless is the bee’s knees. I expected someone to take that as Bayless having what it takes to be the spot up PG shooter in the offense we crave, since Joelly P. sez he’s better than Blake in every way and handsomer too.

Basically (and now that one dude whose sig says only idiots start a sentence with ‘basically’ will think I am dumb, what a shame), I think none of us have any idea how much of a real PG Bayless can become because we haven’t seen him in a position to act as a real PG, and because he is so young and hasn’t played a game yet.

I wrote this much to say I have no answer. I hope he doesn’t suck at PGing.

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Sep 23, 2008 4:31 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs

Pilly Joel

what does that guy know about shooting? If someone can make a lay up then to Joel he is a good shooter. I will take Martell’s sweet jumper over Bayless less sweet jumper. Also, i thought all the reports were that Channing Frye was the best shooter? I would also like to make a vote for calling Joel Pilly Joel. The more I type it the dumber it sounds.

Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.

by jonestr on Sep 23, 2008 7:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Big shot.

The Midnight Rambler. Born to make mistakes.

by amlmart1 on Sep 23, 2008 7:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

OT: Shooting and shooting

While Frye can be a good shooter from a few feet inside the line, realistically he can’t have become a great three point shooter in a few months. So far, he has made 9. Not in one game. Not in one season. In his NBA career. And he was around 30% for the few attempts he took. Even if he did put an insane amount of work into it this off-season, he won’t be our best outside spot up shooter now. That was Jones, Webster, and Blake (Outlaw is good when in motion and in the corner). Maybe Rudy might be good, too, but my money would still be on Webster as the best guy for this. Jerryd might be good, but when Joel says shooter, I’m not sure if he means taking a three or a mid-range shot.

St. Bayno's 120 Haiku Prospects: Nicolas Batum in the paint—prairie grass, blown by wind.

by Norsktroll on Sep 23, 2008 8:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Joel hasnt seen Frye

as Joel was out of town all summer and then Frye got hurt. I guess time will tell if Frye developed his outside shot Najera style over the course of the summer. I was just joking around and being hyperbolic in that joel isnt the best judge of shooters.

Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.

by jonestr on Sep 23, 2008 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

An opinion backed up by statistics.

Good stuff Norsktroll—-as usual.

by TwoDeep on Sep 23, 2008 7:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Rudy is the team's best shooter

He is the only player on our team who makes more than 90% of his free throws. Jerryd’s 40.7% on 3-point shots last year might seem comparable to Rudy’s 41.1%, but you also have to factor in that Rudy was taking 3-point shot twice as often and had a 3-point line that was farther from the basket.

by trk on Sep 23, 2008 8:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think you mean Rudy shot from a 3-line that was CLOSER to the basket

The same is true of the Free Throw Line in Europe.
I’m pretty sure it’s only 6 feet away.
The hoops are also only 9ft tall.
At least that’s what I heard.
From Tom.

"I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ." -Gandhi
"Throw Thag, throw. Throw throw throw throw throw throw"- Far Side

by TheThinWhiteDuke on Sep 24, 2008 5:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

You forgot one thing,

They don’t dribble in Europe.

Blazers Edge has an alarmist vision

by tominhawaii on Sep 25, 2008 4:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Meh, dribbling's overrated

The way the NBA’s going, they’ll get rid of it soon anyway.
I can’t count the number of times I’ve seen LeBron take FOUR steps and not get called for travelling. Jordan got away with a lot, too. Wade as well.
Rudy should fit right in.

"I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ." -Gandhi
"Throw Thag, throw. Throw throw throw throw throw throw"- Far Side

by TheThinWhiteDuke on Sep 25, 2008 9:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Where´s the NCAA 3-line?

NCAA: 19-feet, 9-inches.
FIBA: 20 feet, 6.1 inches.
Both will change this next season.

The Midnight Rambler. Born to make mistakes.

by amlmart1 on Sep 25, 2008 5:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

You're right

I was thinking NBA line compared to Euro line, not NCAA line.
Sorry.

"I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ." -Gandhi
"Throw Thag, throw. Throw throw throw throw throw throw"- Far Side

by TheThinWhiteDuke on Sep 25, 2008 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bayless has been underrated

I love Blake, but Bayless is the man.

Future line up:
Oden
LMA
Webster (I stated this kid could play way back when, and i’m sticking to it. This is the year he has to prove me right or wrong. )
Roy
Bayless

Rudy
Outlaw
Frye – (CAN WE KEEPS HIm? PLEASE!!!)
Blake

Ford: Bill, you're claiming victory already? Have you had a "Mission Accomplished" banner printed yet?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2008/columns/story?page=DraftDebate-080624

by ratbastird on Sep 23, 2008 8:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Where's Pryz?

…………………..There is no harm in seeing things in terms of 10 or 11 guys, even if only 9 play, because there will ALWAYS be injuries throughout a long season. “Stacked” beats “decimated,” nine times out of ten…

I concur with your top 5, although it will probably be middle of the year or later before Rex is a starter… I have a hunch that Rex + Roy will be a devastating combo, whereas Rex + Rudy on the floor at the same time will not click as well…

"TominHawaii's real name is Hubert and he's a rancher in Burns."

by timbo on Sep 23, 2008 9:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I have no informed opinion on the topic

but yes PLEASE KEEP FRYE! This may surprise some Oregonians, but a lot of the country thinks we’re wacky, and Channing is our spokesman. He likes us, and he flyfishes.

"its tough to play with one eye, unless you're a pirate." Delonte West
"una canasta a Pau en la cara" Rudy

by Honka Playboy on Sep 23, 2008 9:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Joel is a premier defender, on a team with a premier defensive coach

I get the feeling he might play a minute or two now and then.
And by all means, keep Channing as long as he’s willing to stay. The guy can play 2 positions, and would be a start at one or the other on more than a couple teams in the league.

"I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ." -Gandhi
"Throw Thag, throw. Throw throw throw throw throw throw"- Far Side

by TheThinWhiteDuke on Sep 24, 2008 5:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

jury is still out on this one

Boomshakalaka

by jksnake99 on Sep 23, 2008 8:38 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

He can pass, I think the real question is, will he pass?

Blazers Edge has an alarmist vision

by tominhawaii on Sep 23, 2008 9:31 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs

Even Kobe "I am the greatest but my teammates blow" Bryant averages 5 assists

How bad can it be, if Jerryd really can pass?

St. Bayno's 120 Haiku Prospects: Nicolas Batum in the paint—prairie grass, blown by wind.

by Norsktroll on Sep 23, 2008 9:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

agreed....

He really hasn’t ever shown that he can play the point. There is a whole list of excuses as for why he hasn’t, and most of them have merit to them, but the bottom line is he hasn’t ever shown that he is a pg. I think its a bit presumptuous to assume he can learn how to play the most difficult position in the nba in a half of a season and at 20 years old. I think he will get there and likely be our starting point guard for a long time, but not nearly as quickly as most seems to think he will. I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see Blake start this entire season, then have his option picked up by the team, and start most of, if not all of the following season. I think it will probably be year 3 when Bayless is ready to run the point full time next to Roy. Also, there is a chance that he simply isn’t a pass first distributor like we need. I think his work ethic and desire to succeed makes it unlikely, but there is still a chance that he is a small 2 with a knack for scoring and trying to fit him at the point is like putting a round peg in a square hole. If this becomes obvious to the blazers, he might become expendable, but I wouldn’t put my money on it. I think he will figure it out, but I think it will take a couple of seasons….

RUDY > MJ

by myemic23 on Sep 23, 2008 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions 5 recs

That's the most realistic comment I've seen on Bayless. Rec'd.

I still want him to come in and hurt someone. In a good way.

"Personally, I'd rather give an elephant a prostate exam on Chili Day." --Dave on rooting for the Lakers or Celtics

by MiledAnimal on Sep 23, 2008 1:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

prior to the Joel

comments I would agree. However if Joel is accurate and he is our best shooter he will start before the end of the year. They don’t need a distributing pg, they need a spot up jump shooter, who has handles and play D. Brandon Roy is our distributor/creator whatever you want to call him. He needs the ball in his hands to be effective, this is why CP3 would be a great addition to the Blazers but would eliminate some of Brandon’s effectiveness. Blake is a great piece but based on my categories above he can shoot the jump shot but he isn’t the best(gotta love that form) Bayless wins here if Joel is right. Bayless and Blake on defense is a toss up as of today we have to give Blake the upper hand due to experience. Handles have to go to Bayless, Steve may be excellent at protecting the ball but he rarely creates with his handles ala Bayless. I think on a team w/out Brandon Roy myemic23 is correct but with the natural on the floor it changes the dynamics.

by The Natural ala Mode on Sep 23, 2008 6:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'll rec it too.

by TwoDeep on Sep 23, 2008 7:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

We don't need a pass-first distributor

but we do need a passer.

They aren’t necessarily the same thing.

If we just need a pass first distributor, we have Blake.

The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.

by jscot on Sep 24, 2008 2:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

unfair comparison

No one can reasonably expect Bayless to be D-Wade. No one even expected D-Wade to be D-Wade. He is clearly an exception. He was underrated in high school (you could find thousands of people over the past few years with comparable high school stats), college, his first NBA season, and even now to a large extent. So trying to compare numbers and project greatness is just not reasonable.

That being said, I think Bayless could develop into a good playmaker.

by keephopealive on Sep 23, 2008 11:26 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Ya I agree.

Thats why I said…

Stats don’t always predict what an athlete will do throughout his career; however, in many cases they can be used to show an athletes possible potential. Just like Dwyane Wade, Jerryd Bayless could be an above average passer but in college the role he played on his team did not allow him to demonstrate that skill.

I was not trying to project greatness, I was just analyzing potential.
I should have added a “prior” at the beginning of that first sentence.
I am pretty sure he wont become the next d-wade

by AndrewJ on Sep 23, 2008 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

"No one can reasonably expect Bayless to be D-Wade."

I’ll bet Jerryd does.

"Personally, I'd rather give an elephant a prostate exam on Chili Day." --Dave on rooting for the Lakers or Celtics

by MiledAnimal on Sep 23, 2008 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

No one can reasonably expect D-Wade to be B-Rex either...

"TominHawaii's real name is Hubert and he's a rancher in Burns."

by timbo on Sep 23, 2008 6:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

True. Hard to imagine Wade making a Bayless face.

"Personally, I'd rather give an elephant a prostate exam on Chili Day." --Dave on rooting for the Lakers or Celtics

by MiledAnimal on Sep 24, 2008 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'll bet Wade made a very Bayless face

When he saw the results of that nasty haircut he had during the Olympics.

"I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ." -Gandhi
"Throw Thag, throw. Throw throw throw throw throw throw"- Far Side

by TheThinWhiteDuke on Sep 24, 2008 5:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Jerryd will get plenty of assists

I’m sure he’ll get at least two assists perg ame to Trout in the second unit. I woul dbe nice to see Jerryd revive the pick and roll the Damon played with Pryz giving Pryz 10-12 points on dunks jsut because people had to cover the lighting fast PG. If Jerryd can deliver soft passes to the rim I could forsee 3 dishes a night to Joel as well.

I also wanted to say a comment or two regarding Joel’s interview regarding Bayless. First the more shooters we got the better. Shooters go through streaks and if you’ve got three or more shooters it going to be a rare game when all of them have an off night. The fewer the shooters on a team, the more off nights you’ll see. Second, in regards to what does Joel know about shooting, plenty as he has to box out to collect all those boards when shooters aren’t on (which is 60% of the time for even the best shooters). Boxing out out requires reading which way the ball will comes off the rim. I wouldn’t take Joel’s opinion to lightly when he says Bayless is a threat to take Websters spot as the team’s best shooter.

by NWfan on Sep 23, 2008 11:31 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Bayless

this guy looks like he’s got an attitude! While looks can be deceiving, and think it’s a good sign, and will look good in a team photo. Rudy is the same way, did you see the look in his eye and the way he stared down the US team after he crossed over and lost Kobe Bryant at the top of the key and continued on to slam the ball onto Dwight Howard? boom that is one hawkish ombre!

by The Chief on Sep 23, 2008 12:08 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Desire and Attitude

appear to be Bayless’ best assets at this point.
that’ll make him do what he has to be on the floor, including pass and play defense.

by DucRider on Sep 23, 2008 12:29 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs

Can Blake dominate a game?

by Bust a Bucket on Sep 23, 2008 5:57 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

ball hawks

i like ballhawks . who do you consider the best ballhawks. i would like to see a ballhawking ricky rubio type on your team. mabey rex has those skills and it is irrevalent how long his arms are because of his happy feet!

by riccc_l on Sep 23, 2008 6:35 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Dont Think

JB dosent have it figured out that hard D and dimes means more minutes and the shoot first[Francis et all] style of doing things means less.

by southern oregon on Sep 23, 2008 6:38 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Yep

And don’t think JB doesn’t want those minutes.

He’ll make himself into what he needs to be to succeed.

by jscot on Sep 24, 2008 2:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

He cant

None of the likely candidates for the second unit are good passers except Rudy. I don’t think Bayless is a good fit with the probable line-up. That’s one of the reasons I still value Sergio.

by cantdunk on Sep 23, 2008 7:41 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Cantdunk

I expect you’re in the minority. Let’s face it. If you believe the Blazers make reasonably or even good draft decisions, you need to look at the fact that they traded the man in front of Sergio on the depth charts as well as their lottery pick to get Bayless. They knew that bringing in Fernandez would affect Jack’s minutes, and by following up on Bayless they clearly knew it would affect Sergio’s minutes. The Blazers aren’t one of those put on a blindfold and throw darts type of organizations. This was well thought out and well planned.

Like some, I think Bayless will develop – and that’s obviously what the Blazers believe as well. If they didn’t, they certainly wouldn’t have traded Jack and the #13 for him. They would have brought Fernandez over, kept Jack, and drafted very differently.

I believe they drafted athleticism, ambition, drive, work ethic, and a pretty good shot. Knowing, as Mac does, that if you have those elements, you can become a better distributor.

by Eben Calder on Oct 5, 2008 6:45 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

good point eben

I kind of see your point. We’ll see how it works out. I don’t think you can reason that he’s going to be able to learn to pass just because we traded the man ahead of Sergio to get him. I do think he will be good. I think he might fit better with the first unit sometimes, maybe even the fourth sometimes depending on how Rudy works out. But what I know from 30 some years of playing basketball is that players that don’t pass very well, never learn to be great distributors. They can improve, but you can’t teach great court vision, which Sergio has but Bayless doesn’t. That doesn’t mean that Sergio’s other deficiencies won’t keep him from making it in this league. He may not stick. But I feel it’s worth another year to see if he can pick up his defense and follow Nate’s game plan better.

by cantdunk on Oct 6, 2008 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs