Are we soft?
I apologize if this topic has been covered better previously, but I've only been following BEdge for a short time. This is my first post here, and I love the winking homerism of the site. However, I,m curious if I'm the only one concerned about this topic. Portland was the 25th best rebounding team in the league last year.
http://www.nba.com/statistics/sortable_team_statistics/sortable1.html
Granted some of this is affected by pace of play (witness Seattle at #2) and rebound differential is probably a more important stat, to wit:
| RPG | BPG | SPG | |||||||||||||||||||
| TEAM | GAMES | HME | OPP | DIFF | |||||||||||||||||
| 1 | Cleveland | 82 | 44.57 | 40.41 | +4.15 | ||||||||||||||||
| 2 | Houston | 82 | 44.64 | 40.67 | +3.97 | ||||||||||||||||
| 3 | Boston | 82 | 42.01 | 38.89 | +3.12 | ||||||||||||||||
| 4 | Utah | 82 | 40.87 | 37.80 | +3.07 | ||||||||||||||||
| 5 | Dallas | 82 | 43.00 | 40.25 | +2.74 | ||||||||||||||||
| 6 | Philadelphia | 82 | 41.91 | 39.22 | +2.69 | ||||||||||||||||
| 7 | Detroit | 82 | 41.42 | 39.13 | +2.29 | ||||||||||||||||
| 8 | L.A. Lakers | 82 | 44.14 | 42.79 | +1.35 | ||||||||||||||||
| 9 | Atlanta | 82 | 42.22 | 40.90 | +1.31 | ||||||||||||||||
| 10 | New Orleans | 82 | 41.84 | 40.82 | +1.01 | ||||||||||||||||
| 11 | Milwaukee | 82 | 41.68 | 40.68 | +1.00 | ||||||||||||||||
| 12 | San Antonio | 82 | 41.25 | 40.28 | +0.97 | ||||||||||||||||
| 13 | Seattle | 82 | 44.62 | 44.09 | +0.52 | ||||||||||||||||
| 14 | Washington | 82 | 41.59 | 41.19 | +0.40 | ||||||||||||||||
| 15 | Chicago | 82 | 43.02 | 42.63 | +0.39 | ||||||||||||||||
| 16 | Orlando | 82 | 42.01 | 41.69 | +0.31 | ||||||||||||||||
| 17 | New Jersey | 82 | 41.86 | 41.62 | +0.24 | ||||||||||||||||
| 18 | New York | 82 | 42.51 | 42.64 | -0.13 | ||||||||||||||||
| 19 | Minnesota | 82 | 41.36 | 41.65 | -0.29 | ||||||||||||||||
| 20 | Portland | 82 | 40.72 | 41.73 | -1.01 | ||||||||||||||||
| 21 | Denver | 82 | 44.09 | 45.39 | -1.29 | ||||||||||||||||
| 22 | Toronto | 82 | 40.07 | 41.62 | -1.54 | ||||||||||||||||
| 23 | Sacramento | 82 | 40.06 | 41.89 | -1.82 | ||||||||||||||||
| 24 | Indiana | 82 | 43.13 | 45.47 | -2.34 | ||||||||||||||||
| 25 | Phoenix | 82 | 41.50 | 43.89 | -2.39 | ||||||||||||||||
| 26 | Memphis | 82 | 41.64 | 44.54 | -2.90 | ||||||||||||||||
| 27 | Charlotte | 82 | 40.63 | 43.74 | -3.11 | ||||||||||||||||
| 28 | L.A. Clippers | 82 | 40.13 | 43.57 | -3.43 | ||||||||||||||||
| 29 | Golden State | 82 | 43.18 | 47.02 | -3.84 | ||||||||||||||||
| 30 | Miami | 82 | 37.62 | 43.08 | -5.46 | ||||||||||||||||
Diced this way we jump all the way up to number 20! Clearly rebounding was not a strong suit on this team last year. How many times did we watch the other team playing volleyball at the basket while cursing our lack of size/toughness. Its tempting to assume that the return of GO solves all problems in this regard, but does it? In order to get him on the floor we have to sit our best rebounder (Joel) at 8.4 boards per game in 23.6 minutes (0.356 boards per minute). GO and Joel will not be on the floor much at the same time.
The top rebounders in the league average 13 to 14 boards a game in 35-38 minutes (Howard, Kaman, Camby). GO probably won't get these kind of minutes coming off microfracture surgery, but lets go ahead and project him at 12 boards a game in 30 minutes (0.40 boards per minute) which is ahead of D Howard's rate. Thus we get some traction on the rest of the league, but how much?
Here's my concern. Our starting PF is a very tanlented finesse guy who rebounds at an average to low rate (0.218 rpm) and our back-up PF is similar (0.261 rpm) although less talented. These rates will likely decrease as GO sucks up some of the available boards. Both our PF's are long and shoot it well, but don't naturally mix it up in the paint . I'm not concerned about this team's ability to score, but rebounding and defense is unproven. I'd like to see Portland as a top rebounding and defensive team to go along with the offensive potential.
If you look at past champs they are invariably strong rebounding or defensive teams or both. The spectacle of Boston kicking sand in the Lakers faces in last years finals illustrates this well. It seems that Channing's offseason goal has been to drop weight and deepen his range. Recently we were treated to a description of LMA's "And One" moves in scrimmages. I admire these guys drive to broaden their game, and don't think LMA will try to play like Chris Paul, but is this what we need?
Most teams in the league play a 3 post rotation with a natural center and 2 PF's sharing time. Mainly this is due to the scarcity of centers with adequate skills to be on the floor. Thus, these teams get by with a physical PF playing center some minutes. This to me seems like a desirable goal for Portland, i.e., acquiring a physical 4 to add to the rotation. While I think Channing has value as a 4 who can shoot, that value may be more elsewhere than here, since you can probably only afford to have one soft/finesse post player out of a 3 post rotation.
Long term (3 years on), I think we are well positioned offensively to contend. I see Joel falling back to a more limited role as GO emerges from microfracture hangover. I also see a main 3 post rotation with LMA, GO and an enforcer PF to be named later.
Thoughts?
7 recs |
98 comments
Comments
We WERE soft, but we ARE not soft
Two words: Greg Oden
by Bust a Bucket on Sep 21, 2008 6:45 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
Can I throw in Ike Diogu?
Kwame and Darko - Grizz '07-'08. The rebuilding is complete.
by RecordTOs on Sep 21, 2008 7:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
please throw in Ike
I like Ike (you old-timer Republicans should appreciate that slogan, not that there are any on BE)…
by Bust a Bucket on Sep 21, 2008 8:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey I have old timey Republican creds
As a matter of fact, I long for the days when the old time Republicans ran their party. They actually made sense. Small government, low taxes, a cautious approach to foreign entanglements. So spying, respect people’s privacy, live and let live. Seriously, I could dig me some of them old time Republicans today. Where are they?
Ohg, that’s right. They all got driven from the party by the extremism of Rove and Cheney and that whole neo-con cabal.
Their 'thinking' is based not on critical judgment, but on what authority figures have said to them.
Many of them would attack France, Massachusetts, or the moon if the president said it was necessary "for freedom."
Highly compliant with social conventions, pro-conformity. Feel safer in the presence of powerful authorities. Often highly religious, zealous, dogmatic, moralistic, moderate to little education, narrow-minded, intolerant, highly prejudiced, hostile and bigoted towards minorities, bullying, mean-spirited, severely punitive, panic easily.
As distasteful as these qualities appear, for authoritarians they can be (secretly or even openly) very attractive.
by dwarfgoper on Sep 21, 2008 9:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
and by the way I like Ike too. the dude is solid as a tough beast on the boards
my only concern with him is his injuries.
Their 'thinking' is based not on critical judgment, but on what authority figures have said to them.
Many of them would attack France, Massachusetts, or the moon if the president said it was necessary "for freedom."
Highly compliant with social conventions, pro-conformity. Feel safer in the presence of powerful authorities. Often highly religious, zealous, dogmatic, moralistic, moderate to little education, narrow-minded, intolerant, highly prejudiced, hostile and bigoted towards minorities, bullying, mean-spirited, severely punitive, panic easily.
As distasteful as these qualities appear, for authoritarians they can be (secretly or even openly) very attractive.
by dwarfgoper on Sep 21, 2008 9:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I meant to say "No spying" not so spying when I was talking about the old school Republican way of thinking
Their 'thinking' is based not on critical judgment, but on what authority figures have said to them.
Many of them would attack France, Massachusetts, or the moon if the president said it was necessary "for freedom."
Highly compliant with social conventions, pro-conformity. Feel safer in the presence of powerful authorities. Often highly religious, zealous, dogmatic, moralistic, moderate to little education, narrow-minded, intolerant, highly prejudiced, hostile and bigoted towards minorities, bullying, mean-spirited, severely punitive, panic easily.
As distasteful as these qualities appear, for authoritarians they can be (secretly or even openly) very attractive.
by dwarfgoper on Sep 21, 2008 9:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
much like I wish there were some “Old School” progressive humanist democrats and not the Clintonite neo-liberal dems that are the other branch of the uni-party corporatists that clearly control BOTH sides of the aisle. Real Dems and Republicans are few and far between. And our country bleeds…
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
by Idog1976 on Sep 24, 2008 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We like Ike
That was the campaign slogan of Dwight D. Eisenhower when he ran for reelection in 1956. Eisenhower was considered an avuncular and affable moderate Republican.
Their 'thinking' is based not on critical judgment, but on what authority figures have said to them.
Many of them would attack France, Massachusetts, or the moon if the president said it was necessary "for freedom."
Highly compliant with social conventions, pro-conformity. Feel safer in the presence of powerful authorities. Often highly religious, zealous, dogmatic, moralistic, moderate to little education, narrow-minded, intolerant, highly prejudiced, hostile and bigoted towards minorities, bullying, mean-spirited, severely punitive, panic easily.
As distasteful as these qualities appear, for authoritarians they can be (secretly or even openly) very attractive.
by dwarfgoper on Sep 21, 2008 9:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What's your favorite?
1. Tippiecanoe and Tyler Too! (Andy Jackson having to do with his triumph at the Battle of Tippiecanoe in Indiana and President Tyler)
2. Morning in America (Reagan in 1980 implying that the U.S. had been going through a national nightmare in the 1960s and 1970— Vietnam, Nixon, and race riots [oh wait, this isn’t the Josh Howard thread, my bad for mentioning], and etc.)
3. We like Ike
4. Change you can believe in
i can’t think of any others
by Bust a Bucket on Sep 22, 2008 1:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No nude taxes?
Oh, wait….
The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.
by jscot on Sep 22, 2008 1:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Haha...
I heard “read my lipstick” the other day when lipstick became the buzzword.
We had “fuzzy math” back in 2000.
by Bust a Bucket on Sep 22, 2008 1:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We've had fuzzy math for quite a while
fuzzy math is partly why we’re in the situation we’re in. Real math tells you going down the path we went was bad.
Ford: Bill, you're claiming victory already? Have you had a "Mission Accomplished" banner printed yet?
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2008/columns/story?page=DraftDebate-080624
by ratbastird on Sep 22, 2008 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
fuzzy math is more fun
to snuggle up to.
by Bust a Bucket on Sep 22, 2008 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
until you realize
that all that fuzz belongs to a tiger that’s getting a bit hungry.
Ford: Bill, you're claiming victory already? Have you had a "Mission Accomplished" banner printed yet?
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2008/columns/story?page=DraftDebate-080624
by ratbastird on Sep 23, 2008 8:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We just need to "stay the course"
cause I will be seeing a “thousand points of light” as we dawn a new banner thas says “mission accomplished” in the Rose Garden.
by NWfan on Sep 22, 2008 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I see a thousand points of light as well
Wait is that the ruddy glow of torches and the glint of pitchforks? I sure hope so otherwise we might as well embrace our new role as 21st century serfs to Wall Street and the Central Bankers.
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
by Idog1976 on Sep 24, 2008 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess I would be that, but I'm not sure I'm old enough
I love Ike. The president
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
by hobobob on Sep 22, 2008 9:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would vote for Eisenhowers exhumed corpse
over any of the corporatist candidates we get to “choose” from. Real americans democrats and republican alike where are you my American brothers and sisters? When will we realize we are all americans and the corporations and bankers are destroying our proud nation?
The following is a quote by the main architect of our constitution, Thomas Jefferson.
“The central bank is an institution of the most deadly hostility existing against the Principles and form of our Constitution. I am an Enemy to all banks discounting bills or notes for anything but Coin. If the American People allow private banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the People of all their Property until their Children will wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered.”
The Federal Reserve is neither federal nor a reserve but a front for a private collection of bankers that are attempting to destroy our currency as is always done when a currency is no longer backed by gold/silver or another commodity. This whole Wall Street bailout is part of a vast usurpation of american wealth. This has been going on in Republican and Democratic administrations since Nixon took us off the Gold standard! Wake up folks time is getting short!
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
by Idog1976 on Sep 24, 2008 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes. On BE.
Then they became Independants.
It's GO time !
by walkoff41 on Sep 22, 2008 1:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think this was an excellent question last season.
But premature to ask this season. There are just too many unknowns. How does Greg Oden affect things being first on the list. Second, how have the players we still have from last year improve? Third, how will our other incoming players impact this team. I’m not sure if anyone knows what we’ve got yet, but most people are pretty convinced that it’ll be dang good… eventually.
One of Two Official Blazer's Edge Poets Laureate for the 2008-2009 Season
"In vino veritas." - Latin proverb
"Ich sitze hier und trinke mein gutes Wittenbergisch Bier und das Reich Gottes kommt von ganz alleine" - Martin Luther
"μηκέτι ὑδροπότει, ἀλλὰ οἴνῳ ὀλίγῳ χρῶ διὰ τὸν στόμαχον καὶ τὰς πυκνάς σου ἀσθενείας." - 1 Timothy 5:23
by T Darkstar on Sep 21, 2008 7:18 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
But nevertheless...
Good research, and you are asking the right questions. It’s the answers that we don’t have yet.
+1 for that.
One of Two Official Blazer's Edge Poets Laureate for the 2008-2009 Season
"In vino veritas." - Latin proverb
"Ich sitze hier und trinke mein gutes Wittenbergisch Bier und das Reich Gottes kommt von ganz alleine" - Martin Luther
"μηκέτι ὑδροπότει, ἀλλὰ οἴνῳ ὀλίγῳ χρῶ διὰ τὸν στόμαχον καὶ τὰς πυκνάς σου ἀσθενείας." - 1 Timothy 5:23
by T Darkstar on Sep 21, 2008 7:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What microfracture hangover?
Greg’s recovery from microfracture surgery seems to be a best-case result. He is young, healthy, and strong. The damage in his knee was about as minor as you can get and still require the microfracture procedure. He’s done exactly everything he needed to do to come back the right way, and the team has refused to rush him into play. He reports zero pain. Amare and Zach were two of the best prior microfracture surgery success stories, and neither of them made anywhere near the kind of progress Greg has made with a total absence of pain.
"Screw the chalupa – it’s the victory I want." --timg56
by MiledAnimal on Sep 21, 2008 7:20 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I would like to see a recent MRI of Oden's knee
Do you suppose a new MRI would reveal resurgent growth of his cartilage? Gosh I hope so.
Their 'thinking' is based not on critical judgment, but on what authority figures have said to them.
Many of them would attack France, Massachusetts, or the moon if the president said it was necessary "for freedom."
Highly compliant with social conventions, pro-conformity. Feel safer in the presence of powerful authorities. Often highly religious, zealous, dogmatic, moralistic, moderate to little education, narrow-minded, intolerant, highly prejudiced, hostile and bigoted towards minorities, bullying, mean-spirited, severely punitive, panic easily.
As distasteful as these qualities appear, for authoritarians they can be (secretly or even openly) very attractive.
by dwarfgoper on Sep 21, 2008 9:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wouldn't hold my breath for that one
I think watching him play would give you a better idea of how he’s doing than an MRI would anyway, unless you are an arthroscopic surgeon. I am not under the impression that everyone who has seen this kid through his recovery and back on the court is lying to us either.
by einman77 on Sep 22, 2008 12:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol I don't think dwarfgoper was thinking
of looking at Oden’s MRI himself…
"Personally, I'd rather give an elephant a prostate exam on Chili Day." --Dave on rooting for the Lakers or Celtics
by MiledAnimal on Sep 22, 2008 9:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was just wondering whether they even do that
whether the team doctors would consider taking a current MRI for the purpose of observing resurgent growth (healing) in Oden’s cartiligenous tissues. I haven’t a clue whether that might be part of the rehab monitoring program and I just honestly thought someone might know.
I myself would not be able to observe diddly zippo because I am not trained as a physician, I am merely dwarfgoper.
But evidence of growth/healing displayed on a new MRI would perhaps be of interest to team doctors.
Their 'thinking' is based not on critical judgment, but on what authority figures have said to them.
Many of them would attack France, Massachusetts, or the moon if the president said it was necessary "for freedom."
Highly compliant with social conventions, pro-conformity. Feel safer in the presence of powerful authorities. Often highly religious, zealous, dogmatic, moralistic, moderate to little education, narrow-minded, intolerant, highly prejudiced, hostile and bigoted towards minorities, bullying, mean-spirited, severely punitive, panic easily.
As distasteful as these qualities appear, for authoritarians they can be (secretly or even openly) very attractive.
by dwarfgoper on Sep 22, 2008 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
In order to see if there was originally a real problem or not
they had to do exploratory surgery. I’m not sure if they could see the generation of proper tissue or not without it, but if I hear those words again I’m not gonna me a happy camper.
by einman77 on Sep 23, 2008 4:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're on the right track, but I think the medical perspective
says not to look unless symptoms are presented. I’d sure as hell wanna see, but as far as doctors go it’s: if it doesn’t hurt, it’s better.
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
by hobobob on Sep 24, 2008 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The rebounding was good when the team played two big men and avoided small ball (Outlaw at PF hurt rebounding a lot).
by NBR on Sep 21, 2008 7:40 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Specifically: Pryz is a world-class rebounder and when he was on the floor, things were tolerable-to-good.
………………………….. Presumably, things will be a little better next year, with a real center on the floor at all times.
"TominHawaii's real name is Hubert and he's a rancher in Burns."
by timbo on Sep 21, 2008 7:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
32 minutes for Oden, 16 for Joel
In a perfect world, this would be the case. I see an average of 18 rebounds and 4 blocks from the center position per night.
by TallTimber on Sep 21, 2008 8:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oden is not going to see 32 minutes
Pryz is going to see more than 16.
Their 'thinking' is based not on critical judgment, but on what authority figures have said to them.
Many of them would attack France, Massachusetts, or the moon if the president said it was necessary "for freedom."
Highly compliant with social conventions, pro-conformity. Feel safer in the presence of powerful authorities. Often highly religious, zealous, dogmatic, moralistic, moderate to little education, narrow-minded, intolerant, highly prejudiced, hostile and bigoted towards minorities, bullying, mean-spirited, severely punitive, panic easily.
As distasteful as these qualities appear, for authoritarians they can be (secretly or even openly) very attractive.
by dwarfgoper on Sep 21, 2008 9:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm officially on record
In full agreement with you (there’s even a bet) – at least for 2008-9 season. I’d prefer Oden work up to long stints of play over the course of the season to allow his knee to fully recover and allow him to adapt to the NBA.
That, and I think Oden is going to be a foul magnet simply due to his stature (media & expectations-wise as well as physical size).
by DonkeyShins on Sep 22, 2008 8:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Call me a dreamer but I think
Oden is going to be a beast. I have no problem with people who want to set their expectations very low for Greg. That’s Ok. I just don’t agree that he automatically is going to be a foul magnet. He has had a year to watch the league from the front row. He’s known around the league. Hopefully as the league’s #1 pick, he will have some stature and credibility already given to him by the officials.
32 minutes is probably too little for him. I hope he can go 36 minutes. Joel will be a great backup but that’s what he is. A great “backup”. This team will go as far as Greg Oden takes them. I’m thinking at least second round of the playoffs this year.
by TallTimber on Sep 23, 2008 6:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very true. Przybilla was incredible on the backboards last season. Was he top 5 in rebounding rate? He was close anyway. The team rebounding was very good when he was on the floor, it was 51.7% which if it had been kept up throughout the game the Blazers would have ranked 5th in the NBA.
So now with a one-two punch of Oden-Joel at center throughout the game the Blazers should comfortably be a top 7-8 rebounding team. Add in LaMarcus and Frye and some solid-good rebounding perimeter players, and the Blazers have a shot to be even better than that.
by NBR on Sep 22, 2008 8:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even when Przybilla wasn't playing, Frye and Aldridge together could usually outrebound the opposing big men
I agree with NBA, most of our problems with rebounding last year came from playing Outlaw at PF. When outlaw wasn’t in the game we got 51.9% of the rebounds last year.
by trk on Sep 22, 2008 10:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice stat...
I agree with this wholeheartedly. I think LMA’s rebounding numbers could actually go up this year playing with a true center for the majority of his minutes. While Oden and Joel will get their share of rebounds, they will be blocking out their men most of the time which will open up space for LMA to grab the rebound if it does not fall into their hands. He was at a disadvantage with TO in at the 4 position.
PTB Liberation Day - 2/10/04
by tssbro on Sep 23, 2008 5:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Our physical 4
is Ike Diogu.
It’s worth noting that Pryz is somewhere near 4th in the league in rebounds per minute, if I’m correct.
--
by CaptainSexyJacob on Sep 21, 2008 8:58 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Joel has his moments
He is excellent at setting picks and he’s a great defender / rebounder. Not to mention that he’s a tough mother.
by DonkeyShins on Sep 22, 2008 8:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
True. Anyone who can bounce-back from Shaq
ramming a basketball through his skull is one tough hombre mother.
"Personally, I'd rather give an elephant a prostate exam on Chili Day." --Dave on rooting for the Lakers or Celtics
by MiledAnimal on Sep 22, 2008 9:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good break down
I appreciate the break down. It’s always valuable to see where we stand in relation to other teams. I’m not sure that we need to add a banger 4 anymore. However, we might well choose to go that route depending on how this season plays out. While agree that GO will take some rebounds from LMA, I don’t think he’ll take many. I do think that having a real center in Pryz on the floor with the second unit will significantly increase the number of rebounds per game we get as a team. I mean, we only need to rebound 3-4 more times a game to move from #20 to #5 (just below boston, but above the l*kers).
by Gelvalst on Sep 21, 2008 9:21 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
We wont have to
with Greg we wont have to play as much zone next year so that should improve our rebounding numbers
Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.
by jonestr on Sep 21, 2008 9:22 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Additionally, with Greg we won't be nearly as much of a jump shooting team
Which leads to long rebounds that are harder to box out for. An inside presence at either the 4 or 5 improves our rebounding rate. Obviously we have one of each in Greg and Ike, but both have been injured. But we were never soft, excepting some of those games against Denver last year. We’re just not thugs like the Denver team and so are labeled as soft.
Does anyone else relish the thought of Garnett trying to get all tough on Oden, only to get smacked back down by a little push back from Oden?
by NWfan on Sep 22, 2008 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good point about the long rebounds
As for Garnett et al trying to intimidate GO, that won’t even happen. Wilt never had to clock anyone, you know. Shaq did, but more out of annoyance than anything. No one was dumb enough to actually try to intimidate him.
Bob Lanier told the story of his first game vs Wilt. On one early trip downcourt, Lanier got a little physical with Wilt and was telling himself, “Hey, I’m mixing it up with Wilt!” Then suddenly, he found himself standing outside the lane. Wilt had simply picked him up as though he were a little kid and deposited him out of harm’s way. Nothing had to be said. As Lanier recounted it, “From the time Wilt picked me up here and put me down there, I knew he was the baddest!”
"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla
by hurryup09 on Sep 22, 2008 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
On second thought...
I’m not sure I agree with your long rebound point. Long rebounds—the result of jumpers—tend to favor the OFFENSIVE team’s chances of getting a board. It’s the defensive team that should have inside position—position that’s rendered moot by long rebounds. So if the Blazers shoot fewer jumpers this season, that would actually tend to reduce their offensive rebound opportunities.
Also, because fewer jumpers presumably means a higher shooting percentage, there will be fewer Blazer misses up for grabs in the first place. Not that that’s a bad thing. Also worth noting: because of Oden’s presence down low, those jumpers that the Blazers DO shoot will tend to be more wide open. Again, this means fewer offensive rebounding opportunities, but who cares?
"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla
by hurryup09 on Sep 22, 2008 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I concur abou tthe long rebound
Upon further inspection using ESPn rebounding stats
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistics?stat=teamstatreb&sort=totreb&league=nba&season=2008&seasontype=2&avg=pg&order=true&split=0
I can see that our poor rebounding is more about pace than anything. Yes, the blazer were generally in about the 20th place in every rebounding category (offensive, defensive and percentage). But let me make a comparison with Houston who was in a virtual tie with Cleveland as the best rebounding team last season with a +4 differential. Houston had four more offensive rebounds (read missed shots beacuse they had nearly identical FG% as Portland last year 44.83) and one fewer defensive rebounds. If the Blazers shot and missed four more shots per game on average they would get 3 more offensive rebounds. That would give portland a +2 differential and make it the 6th best rebounding team. THe same can be said about Cleveland; they had more misses and more rebounds because of it. The difference with Cleveland is they shot a lower percentage (43.86) than Portland and gave up a higher percentage (45.48% to PDX’s 45.09%). By differential Cleveland was the best rebounding team a +4.2. Clearly they did so by playing a faster game with more shots taken (and missed) by both sides.
My point is rebounding is directly related to pace and that a slight adjusment of pace can me bottom third or top five in league. So there you go, a perfect example showning how stats can be a waste of time in that they show nopthing for a whole bunch of work.
by NWfan on Sep 22, 2008 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure I agree
Stats can be manipulated to show many things, particularly if your intent is to mislead or if you have a theory looking for any type of support. They don’t lie, but they do require context to be meaningful. If analyzed with the intent to understand they can enlighten.
I concede your point that pace affects the number rebounds available. That’s why the stats in the post are based on differential.
I didn’t understand your statement “If the Blazers shot and missed four more shots per game on average they would get 3 more offensive rebounds.” A higher percentage of rebounds go to the defense, not the offense.
by JMoon on Sep 22, 2008 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kudos for doing the research
But sometimes you can learn all you need to know by just using your eyes. Did you watch the Rockets in the playoffs last season? Like most of the contenders, they send tough rebounders at you in waves. Battier, Hayes, Landry, Scola, Mutombo—sheesh! (That’s not counting Yao, of course.) You could cite stats to me all day long, and I wouldn’t believe the Blazers can rebound with those guys.
Last season, that is. With GO and Diogu added, and the rest of the Blazers’ line-up a year older, the disparity shouldn’t be as bad this season. If it is, I’m sure KP will be able to add another bruiser off the bench next year. Just look at those Rockets I named: were any of them first round picks? If so, they came near the end of the round—where the Blazers will be picking next draft.
"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla
by hurryup09 on Sep 22, 2008 5:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with Mr. Hurry that eyes > stats...
………………………. and also that we’ve got a better cast of characters for mucking low this year than last. I don’t think getting another bruiser is on KP’s To Do list though — he’s a former PG and Nate’s a former PG, and that ilk will always be more 1/2/3 oriented than 4/5 oriented…
As long as LMA keeps getting stronger and the two centers stay healthy and Nate doesn’t get cute benching Pryz to run a small-ball lineup, the rebound situation should be good and improving from here out.
Not to be overlooked is Rudy Rudy Rudy, who is a committed board-crasher — and 3/4 of rebounding is the DESIRE to rebound.
Looks to me like this big Blazer weakness is now fixed…
"TominHawaii's real name is Hubert and he's a rancher in Burns."
by timbo on Sep 22, 2008 7:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
First, that Nate and KP are both former point guards, so they have that small ball bias. Second, that Rudy’s “nose for the ball” will result in extra rebounds. You could see that in the Olympics; the guy is everywhere!
"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla
by hurryup09 on Sep 22, 2008 9:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Small-ball bias?
Based on the fact that Nate and KP were NBA guards? Funny, I didn’t see KP passing on Oden and Aldridge in the draft in favor of perimeter players. Nate almost always has at least a couple of players taller than 6’9" on the court at any one time.
There are 14 players on the roster right now. At least six of them are 6’9" or taller and play some or all PF and C. I wonder how they made the team? Maybe they tied their shoes to their knees and worked-out on their knees so they wouldn’t look too tall. Ha ha, I’ll bet KP was surprised when they signed their contracts and stood up.
And poor Nate, he must be miserable trying to figure-out what to do with Oden and Aldridge. He’ll probably just sit them. Better to play guys he can look in the eye than those big, scary guys he has to look up at.
"Personally, I'd rather give an elephant a prostate exam on Chili Day." --Dave on rooting for the Lakers or Celtics
by MiledAnimal on Sep 22, 2008 10:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK, OK, you made your point
But you’re taking me too literally. Looking at last season’s line-up, LMA and Frye may be tall, but they’re not power players (at least not yet—I hold out hope for LMA). And Trout resembles the “97-lb weakling” that gets sand kicked in his face in those old bodybuilding ads. As for Raef—at this stage of his career, the mind is willing but the body isn’t. Do you want to include “Babyface” McRoberts? So much for all those tall Blazers you refer to.
By contrast, Paul Milsap is just 6-7, but he’s a power player. The same goes for Houston’s Hayes & Landry, Detroit’s Maxiell, San Antonio’s Bass, Boston’s Big Baby, etc., etc. So it’s not really about height. It’s more about strength, toughness, and a nose for the ball.
The fact is, the team KP assembled last season was notably lacking in power players. Really, Joel was the only one. Even had GO not gotten hurt, that would have made a grand total of two. Compared to the teams that went deep into the playoffs, the Blazers were a notably un-physical club last season.
Whether that’s attributable to the fact that both Nate and KP had been point guards is debatable. But I’ve suspected that that’s probably a factor—and apparently so has timbo. (In fairness to Nate, he reportedly begged KP to add some beef early on last season, but KP told Nate he’d have to make do with what he had.)
No worries, though: both KP and Nate are super-bright basketball minds, and sooner or later they’re going to address any deficiencies in the Blazers’ roster. I don’t doubt that for a second. KP in particular is planning long-term. Diogu and Hill (if he sticks) may help this season. If not, there’s always “Maxsaps” available in the second round if you have an eye for talent. And KP obviously has that.
"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla
by hurryup09 on Sep 22, 2008 11:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't include Joel and Raef in the six I listed
There are always more talented, athletic guards and SFs than big men available. KP took the best players available that fit the plan he has for the team. I just thought it was funny that you and timbo were accusing Nate and KP of having a bias for perimeter players. I have no doubt at all that both of them would laugh at that.
"Personally, I'd rather give an elephant a prostate exam on Chili Day." --Dave on rooting for the Lakers or Celtics
by MiledAnimal on Sep 23, 2008 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You have "no doubt at all"
Really? That’s so admirable. I’m rarely as certain of my assumptions concerning people I don’t even know personally. But while I lack your absolute conviction, I can easily imagine KP and/or Nate agreeing that—as former point guards—overlooking the importance of power players is a natural tendency that they have to guard against (just as Luke might own up to favoring bigs).
Besides which, even if both KP and Nate DID reject the suggestion that they had a tendency to overlook the need for power players—even if they found that suggestion amusing—that wouldn’t mean the suggestion was incorrect. Last year’s Blazer squad was remarkable for its lack of physical players. Opponents frequently pushed the Blazers around like they were little kids.
In some cases, the imbalance can be explained in terms of KP having to work with the hand he was dealt. E.g., in order to unload Zach Randolph, he had to take the best Knick player he could get, who ended up being Frye (a finesse player). Likewise, it wasn’t KP’s fault that Ime Udoka—a notably hardnosed member of the previous season’s squad—had an idiot negotiating for him.
But KP had an opportunity to address the imbalance by drafting a couple of late first round/ early second round tough guys, and instead he picked Taureen Green and Josh McRoberts. The result: when Oden went down (unexpectedly) and Raef struggled (predictably), he was left with a single physical big (Joel P.). This in a league filled with bullies. Poor Joel; he reminded me of the little Dutch boy with his finger in the dike (in this case, trying to hold back a flood of offensive rebounders).
All part of the long-range plan? I dunno. I’m as big a fan of KP as anyone, but I’d say he screwed up there. And—contrary to what you so confidently assume—I think KP might be the first to agree. Diogu’s presence on this year’s roster would seem to support that. Clearly, you don’t need to compromise the master plan in order to stock your bench with a little extra beef.
"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla
by hurryup09 on Sep 23, 2008 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
"they have that small ball bias"
“I’d say he screwed up there… I think KP might be the first to agree.”
“I’m rarely as certain of my assumptions concerning people I don’t even know personally.”
Right, bad on me for not having any doubt. I wish I were as uncertain as you!
Okay, my bladder’s empty. Take your last shot. Just don’t get my shirt tail wet.
"Personally, I'd rather give an elephant a prostate exam on Chili Day." --Dave on rooting for the Lakers or Celtics
by MiledAnimal on Sep 23, 2008 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Er, I don't read where I said "I have no doubt at all"...
…regarding what KP would think. In fact, I said, “I think KP might be the first to agree.” Note the use of the qualifying words “think” and “might.”
You should have taken better aim before emptying that bladder.
"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla
by hurryup09 on Sep 24, 2008 11:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Quote
" I’m rarely as certain of my assumptions concerning people I don’t even know personally."
Not me. I’m frequently right, but always certain.
Book it.
The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.
by jscot on Sep 24, 2008 2:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Small ball bias?
I would say if you had a bias for a particular kind of player, that would factor heavily in the really big decisions, not the second-round-this-guy-will-probably-never-play decisions.
Like, say, when you have two presumed superstar players to choose between, picking the wing (who can also really rebound well) rather than the center.
The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.
by jscot on Sep 24, 2008 3:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
........To the point that we still have threads half a year later asking "Are We Soft?"
Last year’s Blazer squad was remarkable for its lack of physical players. Opponents frequently pushed the Blazers around like they were little kids.
"TominHawaii's real name is Hubert and he's a rancher in Burns."
by timbo on Sep 24, 2008 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Two points:
First, who said we were talking about “second-round-this-guy-will-probably-never-play” players? I listed a whole string of late first or second-round “Maxsaps” who play—and contribute—plenty. Do you think KP is incapable of finding a gem like Milsap, Maxiell, Bass, Big Baby, Landry, or Hayes? (I didn’t even mention Boozer, another notable second-rounder who fits the bill).
Second, the case you cite—the Blazers’ decision to draft Oden rather than Durant—if anything tends to support Timbo’s and my case. KP was practically alone among basketball experts in (apparently) seriously entertaining the possiblity that the Blazers should choose Durant. Unless it was all lies & misdirection, KP went far beyond doing his “due diligence.” Reportedly he agonized endlessly over that decision—practically up to the final minutes. By contrast, Maurice Lucas made it pretty clear that from the moment Oden collided with him during his Blazer workout, he was head over heels in love with the big man.
Nothing wrong with that: bigs tend to have a heightened appreciation for what a great big can bring to a team. Just like point guards appreciate the value of point guards. Maybe it was a coincidence that a team whose GM and head coach were both point guards fielded a team with FOUR POINT GUARDS for much of last season. I just have my doubts.
"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla
by hurryup09 on Sep 25, 2008 12:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I relish that all the time. Actually, I can't relish the future, but envision it happily
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
by hobobob on Sep 24, 2008 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice post
This was my pet topic last season. (To the point that Tominhawaii thinks that’s all I post about!) I maintained that the addition of GO alone wouldn’t solve the problem. Diogu is the type of banger-off-the-bench that I’ve felt the the Blazers have needed (to deal with the Milsaps and Maxiells of the league), but whether he has the skills to go with the physicality, we’ll have to see.
A lot will hinge on whether LMA and Frye are more effective on the boards this season. Both are still young and have reportedly hit the weights over the summer, so we shouldn’t assume they’ll get pushed around this year like they did the last. As for Outlaw, for all his leaping ability, he’s a poor rebounder. Only occasionally does he remember to put his body on someone, so he gets beat regularly. That’s something to keep in mind: rebounding isn’t only about size & strength: it’s just as much about technique, timing, & desire.
Fortunately, GO seems to have all the ingredients of a good rebounder, and his addition puts Przy in the second unit. That means both groups should rebound—and deal with bullies—better this year.
"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla
by hurryup09 on Sep 21, 2008 9:49 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
As much as I hope Ike will be good, I don't really see him solve our rebounding problems
Most importantly, he won’t be on the court that much (I guess between 10 to 13 minutes would be a lot, which is his career average). He is a physical back to the basket player, but slightly undersized for the position. Let’s say we can pencil him in for 1 offensive board and 2 defensive rebounds. Does that solve anything, and make us really better than having a long PF like Frye for his minutes? I hope he could be like a Brandon Bass or Paul Millsap (both also 6’8’’) for us, but those guys play about 20 minutes.
Like timbo said, the biggest improvement potential I can see is that we will have a heavy 7 foot center on the floor at all times who can’t be pushed around. And if need be we could even have Joel (5) and Greg (4) together for a few minutes like they already tried out in training.
St. Bayno's 120 Haiku Prospects: Nicolas Batum in the paint—prairie grass, blown by wind.
by Norsktroll on Sep 22, 2008 2:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bass and Milsap are very skilled
…in addition to being bangers. But at least Idogu gives the Blazers another physical guy to throw in there when the regulars are in foul trouble or are being manhandled. The championship contenders all can send bigs at you in waves. This is especially valuable in the playoffs, when intensity ratchets up and the officials let more rough stuff go.
"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla
by hurryup09 on Sep 22, 2008 5:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If your pissing off Tom
You must be doing some thing right
by southern oregon on Sep 23, 2008 7:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s not possible to project what the addition of any one player will do to a team. You can add in stats, ect., but there are too many intangibles. For example:
With the addition of Oden, how will that affect Aldridge’s ability to free up a bit of space when trying to gain position for rebounds?
How many rebounds will Oden take from Aldridge?
What kind of offense sets will the Blazers run? One thing that really killed the Blazers last season was that they basically lived by the jump shot. Rebounds tend to come off a bit longer than they will with guys like Bayless taking it to the hole and Oden owning the paint. So all of that dramatically affects positioning. Granted, a guy’s still gotta know how to get that position.
Will our FG % increase this year? How does that translate into rebounds?
There are a couple dozen of these questions that come to mind. Bottom line is that the Blazers are going to be vastly improved in many areas this season. They won’t lead the league in every statistical category, but look for the Blazers to rock the NBA – and surprise a few people as to how good they are THIS YEAR. I’ll bet we’re top 10 in rebounding too.
by BlazerNation on Sep 21, 2008 10:13 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
When G.O. boxes you out, you stay boxed out!
I’m also imagining those scenarios when a pesky two or three tries to sneak in for an offensive board that rightfully belongs to the men in red and black. Should the need arise, The Mighty Oden will hold these pests at bay with one massive forearm, and the denizens of the Rose CIty shall sleep soundly knowing that the defensive glass will always be protected!
Seriously though, I think having two huge active bodies on both units will help a good deal in cutting down on second-chances for the opposition, and LMA is obviously still developing-I think the more he plays as a full-time starter, the better he’ll be in helping to clean up the glass.
by Modal Rounder on Sep 21, 2008 10:39 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
"The Mighty Oden"
I like it. Imagine the Marcus Cambys and Lamar Odoms of the league trying to intimidate HIM. They won’t even try.
"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla
by hurryup09 on Sep 22, 2008 12:02 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Some thoughts here
1. Frye did a pretty decent job rebounding (per minute).
2. Frye and LMA are likely to be more effective rebounding against PFs than against centers. Both had to go up against centers at times last year. This is not to say they will get more rebounds, with Greg vacuuming up rebounds right and left. It does mean they are more likely to out-rebound their man, or at least hold their own, than they were last year.
3. Both Frye and LMA are still young and should be growing stronger this year (and for at least a couple more years).
4. I’m not in the least bothered about Frye taking his shot outside, because that also takes his defender outside. That means on the offensive end, rebounding often comes down to our center against theirs. I’ll take that matchup.
5. The outside shooting at PF has no bearing on defensive rebounding.
6. The reason many teams use a three man rotation at C/PF, with one of those PFs being a banger, is (as you said) because of the scarcity of true centers. Guess what? I don’t care about the scarcity of true centers, because WE HAVE TWO. (That’s not shouting at you, that’s shouting at every one else in the league to beware.) The last thing I want is a banger PF backing up our center position when we actually have a center to do it. Advantage: Trailblazers. As you said, teams “get by” with a physical PF backing up center. Good for them. I’d rather do better than “get by”.
7. It seems unlikely that Travis is going to play a lot of PF this year. This is good for our rebounding. Travis will be an adequate rebounder at SF. At PF, he was poor. Travis will not be out-rebounded as badly this year as last year.
8. Martell has been working very hard on physical conditioning, and will probably be a more effective rebounder this year.
9. Rudy gets some rebounds. This means that at SG, we have two pretty decent rebounders. If our PF is pulling his man away from the basket by being an outside thread, and Martell pulls his man away from the basket, our guards may actually get more offensive rebounds this year. I don’t think there are that many teams that have a better rebounding combo at SG than Roy/Rudy.
I don’t think we’ll be a dominant rebounding team this year. But all things considered, I will be shocked if we aren’t in the top 15 rebounding teams, and I expect we’ll be in the top ten. I expect that to improve in years to come.
The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.
by jscot on Sep 22, 2008 12:29 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Good point about Rudy
He has a nose for the ball. I’m less certain that Travis will rebound any better at the three than he did at the four. He rarely remembers to find his man and put his body on him. I watched quick guys punish him on the boards as much as big strong ones did. Or at least that’s how it seemed.
GO will be able to handle the opposing center on the boards, and, as you suggest, LMA and Frye will often draw their men away from the paint. But that’s for naught if threes and twos continually zip around & thru Travis & Martell while they’re gazing rimward. Rebounding is a team game, and GO will need help (as will Przy on the second unit).
"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla
by hurryup09 on Sep 22, 2008 1:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fair point about Travis
Let’s modify my comment to say that Travis will not be abused as badly at the 3 as he was at the 4. It isn’t because he’ll be better, but because opposing 3s aren’t as well equipped to take advantage of him as opposing 4s were.
As for your other comments, I would say:
1. I don’t think Martell will be a bad rebounder this year.
2. (main point) You are mixing offense and defense. On offense, LMA/Frye will draw their men away from the basket. This is a big advantage, because you aren’t supposed to get offensive rebounds, anyway. It means a) GO/Joel will be one on one against opposing centers (or occasionally PFs plugged in to back up the center), which is advantage Portland and b) our threes and twos have more opportunity to zip around and through opponents to steal a few offensive rebounds.
On defense, LMA/Frye won’t be drawing their man away from the basket, they’ll be defending him. Which means that, unless he is an outside threat, they will be there to help on the defensive boards. And let’s face it, if we have Oden/Aldridge on the defensive boards, it isn’t going to hurt that much if Martell or Travis get beat occasionally. In fact, it reduces the chance that they will get beat, because if opposing SFs crash the boards and DON’T get the ball (and most times they won’t), there’s a good chance that we’ll be out on a 3 on 2, with Travis/Martell on one wing and only two guards back.
The presence of Oden and LMA in the paint on defense increases the chances that opponents won’t even send their SF to the offensive boards that often.
The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.
by jscot on Sep 22, 2008 1:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good points
Also, in fairness to Trout, he did show signs late in the season that he might finally be getting the message re/ blocking out. During the Blazers’ last game vs the Jazz, there was a memorable sequence during crunch time when Travis located Milsap as a shot went up and Travis rode him all the way out of bounds under the hoop. As a result, another Blazer was able to grab that critical rebound.
I’m hoping to see more of that from both Travis & Martell. Left to their own devices, they’re both prone to rely on their leaping ability to snag boards, and that doesn’t cut it in the NBA as it does in high school. And contrary to what many Blazer fans believe, even Oden is going to struggle rebounding one-on-three. Leaking out is fine, but only if the opposing team’s strong offensive rebounders are being accounted for.
"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla
by hurryup09 on Sep 22, 2008 6:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Travis is out of position at the 4...
…………………………. ya can’t make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear… Travis could have the best box-out technique in the NBA, but that would make him an AVERAGE rebounder at the 4, because he’s physically too small. And he was NOT rebound oriented, nor can he reasonably be expected to EVER be rebound oriented…
Frye is big enough to do the job, but he’s consistently out of rebounding position, flitting around trying to find 18 foot jumpers to shoot… Maybe he can learn. Who knows…
"TominHawaii's real name is Hubert and he's a rancher in Burns."
by timbo on Sep 22, 2008 7:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Impact of Oden
You can’t measure Oden’s impact on the boards by merely plugging in 2 or 3 extra rebounds for us per game. His ability to box out and clear away room under the basket will bring more rebounds to us, whether or not he actually get them. Just like a big man’s ability to simply affect shots in the paint, he will affect rebounding in a positive way for us, which can’t be measured with definitive stats.
by mcmillion on Sep 22, 2008 6:36 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Impact Indeed
Greg Oden will encourage more jump shots by our opponents, which will lead to more defensive rebounding opportunities. He will usually be responsible for boxing out the other teams primary rebounder which will leave LMA and others to compete with their secondary rebounders.
by dvcastle on Sep 22, 2008 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lots of thoughtful comments here
Thanks for taking the time to read and respond. The consensus seems to be that we’ll be much better on the boards, with many believing that no further changes need be made. I’m buoyed by your optimism and appreciative that no one interpreted this as slighting LMA or Channing. I like both guys games.
For me, the jury’s still out on whether one guy can take a poor rebounding team and make them dominant (hurryup09 expressed this well). But I agree we’ll be better.
by JMoon on Sep 22, 2008 10:31 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
How dare you
slight LMA and Channing? (never appreciate us too soon around here, or we’ll make you pay for it)
It’s not just that we’re adding one guy. It’s also that by doing so, we’re moving guys back to their natural positions. It improves our center rebounding, but it also should improve our PF rebounding, just because we’ll have a real PF on the floor all the time, rather than Travis at PF. So we’ll improve not just one position, but three — and Rudy will be a better rebounder than Jarrett was at backup SG.
The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.
by jscot on Sep 22, 2008 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Both LMA and Channing have the SIZE to be good 4s...
……………………….. LMA has obsessed with his offensive game, to the detriment of his rebounding, it seems to me. And Frye really hasn’t tried, up to the tail end of the season last year, when he replaced Joel at the 5 and actually did a pretty nice job of it.
Hope springs eternal.
"TominHawaii's real name is Hubert and he's a rancher in Burns."
by timbo on Sep 22, 2008 7:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I this still the blazer are still missing toughness
While the blazer are very talented, they are still on the soft side, even withOden; and I still think they need some veteran toughness. Przybilla was the only player low post player that fought down low. I still think they need an additional veteran like Przybilla, but wtih more skill to carry the team through the low points. I hope Diogu can play that role, but so far he’s a big unknown.
As I said before, I’d be really surprised if they pick up Livingston, as he’s just another player, long on talent, and potential, but short on results.
by MotoMan045 on Sep 22, 2008 11:24 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
What happened when Odom knocked Roy...
on his back in the Rose Garden? Travis & LMA were immediately in his face wanting to know what his problem was. The soft label is just that, a label. I think it is overblown and as individual players mature and gain confidence in themselves, they will not take crap from anybody. We have been watching these young guys grow into men the past two years. Roy, LMA, and Outlaw have only shown that they are maturing and I don’t expect them to go backwards this year.
Oh yeah, Bayless and Rudy don’t appear to be the type of guys to sit back and watch if their teamates get in a scuffle.
PTB Liberation Day - 2/10/04
by tssbro on Sep 23, 2008 5:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lots of long rebounds too
Throw Oden under the basket and on offense, there will be a lot of kick outs from him to an open man. On defense, the other team will attempt a lot of jumpers instead of challenging Oden in the paint. Oden will make the entire team better at rebounding.
Blazers Edge has an alarmist vision
by tominhawaii on Sep 22, 2008 1:01 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Toughness, schmuffness
As has been pointed out, Oden will make us a completely different team on the inside. Aldridge has bulked up – why? So he can take more outside shots? I don’t think so. We are going to be very tough inside.
WIth Roy, Bayless (I still see he and Oden having the biggest impact of the new players) and Fernandez to watch the permiter, we will be fine there as well. But the lion’s share will come from the new twin towers. We’ll be among the leaders this year in rebounding.
I’m concerned about a few things. I’m mildly concerned about our ability to stay healthy. I’m very mildly concerned about the impact of a tough start to the season on a young team. I’m not – aboslutely not – concerned about our toughness this year. It will be a completely different year.
by BlazerNation on Sep 22, 2008 2:13 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
There will be injuries...
………………………………. but this team is stacked.
"TominHawaii's real name is Hubert and he's a rancher in Burns."
by timbo on Sep 22, 2008 7:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even with the additions of Oden & Diogu
I think you’ll observe a toughness deficit should the Blazers make the playoffs. Playoff ball is a different game altogether, and any lack of physicality is exposed there (as it was for the Lakers vs the Celts last post-season). With the possible exception of the Lakers, the Blazers will be a less physical squad than anyone they meet in the playoffs this year. At least, that’s my opinion.
Having said that, “Rome wasn’t built in a day,” and there’s still plenty of time to add a bit more beef and toughness to this team. What counts is who’s on the roster as the team enters its “championship window” (which I believe begins in ‘09-10). Plus, these youngsters will naturally get more physical as they mature. Also, the new perimeter players—Bayless & Rudy—are hardnosed guys. That shouldn’t be overlooked. Finally, when your starting point guard is working out with a MMA guy, that’s a sign that your team is getting tougher!
"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla
by hurryup09 on Sep 23, 2008 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Toughness deficit? WHAT toughness deficit?!

"Personally, I'd rather give an elephant a prostate exam on Chili Day." --Dave on rooting for the Lakers or Celtics
by MiledAnimal on Sep 23, 2008 1:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Window is Opening Now
There is no point in giving them a mulligan. Everyone expects them to make the playoffs, and history has shown that they are highly unlikely to be in the Finals. That does not mean the window has not opened. Getting into the playoffs is a window that has at least been cracked, to let in some fresh air. I think every game they win in the playoffs, opens the window just a little bit more.
Blazers Edge has an alarmist vision
by tominhawaii on Sep 23, 2008 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yet, is it enough that the window is open?
By how much must the window by open?
Would it be better to say that the window currently is ajar?
When the window is sufficiently open, then what? Should they sniff the fresh air, and be satisfied? Should they simply look out the window and be pleased with the view?
"Personally, I'd rather give an elephant a prostate exam on Chili Day." --Dave on rooting for the Lakers or Celtics
by MiledAnimal on Sep 23, 2008 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If a window opens in the woods
And nobody knows it opened,did it open?
by southern oregon on Sep 23, 2008 7:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
As I’ve said several times before, this team could shock the world and win an NBA title THIS year. Everything would have to fall into place, but it’s happened before—most notably in ‘76-’77. That Blazer team—which had also missed the playoffs the previous few seasons—was similar to this one in a number of respects. It had a great center; it was the youngest squad in the league; it possessed a culture of unselfishness; and it had just added a couple of “rookies-in-name-only”: Lucas & Twardzic (via the ABA).
Having said that, I think it’s far more likely that these Blazers will break thru after experiencing at least one “unsuccessful” playoff run. Then, in time-honored fashion, they can regroup, lick their wounds, and come out twice as focused & determined the next season. That’s why I think it’s so important that the guys stay healthy and make it to the post-season this year.
"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla
by hurryup09 on Sep 23, 2008 5:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
every game they win in the playoffs, opens the window just a little bit more.
Right.
Especially every fourth win in a series opens it a little more.
The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.
by jscot on Sep 24, 2008 3:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We're not soft
we are just flacid
# 10 Top Charles Barkley Quote: On the Portland Trail Blazers (back when they were known as the Jail Blazers) serving Thanksgiving meals: "In between arrests they do community service."
by BlazermaniacAndy on Sep 23, 2008 2:34 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Are we soft? the answer is no.
why would you gravel to extrapolate a reason so suggestive? If anything Bedgers are stiff.
night.
"meow." -- My cat Bonzi wondering why Rudy Fernandez shouldn't start.
by bow4meow on Sep 23, 2008 11:03 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
are you implying that it depends
on Bedgers’ spouses? not sure I like that reasoning suggestion (sorry, I gotta throw in that qualifier in case I’m not right… I don’t want to look like the bad guy)
by Bust a Bucket on Sep 24, 2008 1:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

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