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Reaction to the Outlaw Article

Since all of the buzz yesterday surrounded Jason Quick's Travis Outlaw article I thought I’d add my two cents today.

 

First, some generalities:

 

--We should take a moment to remember what a fine writer Jason Quick is.  He’s been well-acclaimed as a straight beat writer, of course, but stories like this reveal his strongest suit.  He is, above all things, a teller of stories.  The human touch is his best.

 

--Obviously the story wasn’t going to be unflattering to Travis, but even so it’s nice that Travis’ unaffected “just folks” outlook fits in so well not only with the people he grew up among but with Portland as well.  How many guys in similar situations would head right back to town with far more than an Escalade to show off in?  How many would immediately proclaim themselves king of their burgh?  How many wouldn’t even go back at all?  It’s hard not to like Travis, and that’s a good thing.

 

--It seems you can take your pick of Blazer players to do this kind of story about.  At this point it’s pretty close to every one of them.  Contrast that to where we used to be.  I don’t know if the greater miracle is how sympathetic our players are in this generation or how horribly unsympathetic previous generations were.  Whatever you think of the reasons for that sympathy (or lack thereof) you have to admit it makes them a heck of a lot easier to write and read about nowadays.

 

Now a couple responses to specifics about Travis from the article:

 

--One of the points that stood out was Travis’ comparison between his situation and that of Carmelo Anthony.

The conversation starts with Outlaw asking how close he was to being traded to Memphis for Mike Miller, but quickly veers to Denver's Carmelo Anthony, who the table feels was asking for a trade.

"I don't understand why you would want to be traded when you have the green light to shoot from half court?" Outlaw says. "You give me that type of leeway boy, I be there ... I'm going to retire there. Give me the green light: 'Trav, you get to shoot whenever you want to, there ain't no such thing as a bad shot...'"

He shakes his head at the thought.

Outlaw averaged 11.8 shots per game last season -- third highest on the Blazers behind Roy and Aldridge -- and he was given free rein to create his own shot, particularly in the fourth quarter. But he says he would like to average 15 shots this season -- the amount Roy and Aldridge averaged last season -- and disputes the notion that he had the green light with the Blazers.

"Noooo. Noooo," Outlaw says about the green light, prompting his imitation of Blazers coach Nate McMillan. "'Now Travis, that shot, you can get something better than that.'"

There are a variety of ways to interpret this, most of them probably putting too much weight on Travis’ role and Coach McMillan’s game plan.  I read it fairly simply.  If you had a Ferrari, you’d want to drive it fast sometimes.  You may understand the need for a speed limit.  You may agree with it.  But when most of your life is spent driving 65 it’s hard not to envy a guy in Germany who can drive 120 whenever he wants.  I mean, it’s a Ferrari, dude.  Travis is pretty sure he’s a Ferrari.  And looking at some of the things he’s able to do on the court it’s hard to disagree.  That doesn’t mean the Blazers or Travis himself would be better off if he could take any shot at any time.  But boy, wouldn’t it be fun to have an open road and nobody else to worry about?  Who wouldn’t have that dream?

The second possible controversial part read so:

...[Travis] ponders his place with the franchise's upswing. He has experienced enough success -- last season hitting game-winning shots at Memphis and Atlanta and finishing ninth in the sixth man of the year voting -- that he thinks he could one day be an All-Star. But he wonders whether that potential will be stifled on a team built around Brandon Roy, LaMarcus Aldridge and Greg Oden.

And all of that feeds his apprehension of how the team perceives him as he enters what could be a contract year.

"We have a really good team," Outlaw says. "But I don't know if they are going to be able to keep us together."

Anyone who has read this blog at all this summer shouldn’t be surprised by this.  Travis is not the only one who is going to be having these feelings and questions.  It’s inevitable on a team that’s sure to be dominated by a small cadre of (super)stars and is also populated with young players on their way up.

Back in the day I remember the Blazer broadcasters telling us of a plane conversation between Danny Ainge and Drazen Petrovic.  Drazen was disgruntled at the time, lacking playing time behind Clyde Drexler.  Danny was the grizzled veteran acquired for the deep playoff runs.  Danny argued that it was better to be on a great team with depth even though it meant less personal playing time.  Drazen argued the opposite.  If you don’t play much what does it matter which team you’re on?

Each of these perspectives is true in its way.  How you see it depends on where you are in your career arc.  Guys like Travis who are early in their careers will agree more with Drazen on the whole.  Talented players want a chance to find out who they are in this league.  What good is it being a Ferrari if you’re stuck in traffic the same as a Honda?  That’s not selfish.  That’s trying to do what you are meant to do.  Older guys, on the other hand, already know who they are.  They want a chance to accomplish something.  Winning teams usually have a mix of both.

As far as Travis in particular, I doubt he has much to worry about right now.  Going into the season he’s still the primary player off the bench and the third or fourth most important offensive guy on a fifteen-man roster.  He may not be starting but he’ll be on the shortest list of guys you want in on critical offensive possessions due to his ability to score and draw attention.  His position is his to lose.  If he did get traded at this point it wouldn’t be because the Blazers didn’t value him, rather because another team valued him to the extreme and made Portland an offer it couldn’t refuse.  Travis is probably correct about the Blazers not being able to keep everyone together, but if he continues to progress at least moderately he’s likely to be one of the guys they do want to keep.

Travis’ caution does reinforce one of the basic lessons of being a Blazer fan this season.  If you want to delineate the heart of the team (and invest your own heart reasonably safely) you look at three players:  Oden, Aldridge, Roy.  They are the key.  Put those three on any team in the league and that team has a chance to do well no matter who else is around them.  Remove those three from the Blazers and this is a lottery team for sure.  It’s not that the other guys are chopped liver…far from it.  But there are times to let the 6th, 7th, and 8th men be the 6th, 7th, and 8th men (and the 12th-14th as well).  This is one of them.  If Travis wants to be the top guy on his team, or even one of the top three, it’s doubtful that will happen in Portland.  I’m not entirely sure about his All-Star prospects either.  But if he just wants to score 16+ and contribute to deep playoff runs he can do that here to his heart’s content.  I could see him being rewarded handsomely for it as well, which never hurts.

And then finally:

"I look at myself and I might be that floating piece, you know?" Outlaw says. "When you need something, you be like, we just put him in right there. Maybe that's it. I feel like I'm that guy that if they need anything -- a spark or something -- they will call on me. I feel like I can change the game sometimes."

He says he is not exactly cool with that role, but he says he wants to do whatever helps the team win, noting that he has never been on a winning team in Portland.

It's a struggle that Outlaw figures he won't win any time soon. Because what is best for the Blazers right now isn't necessarily best for Outlaw, who is trying this season to persuade the Blazers to pick up an option on his contract. ..

"I don't want people to think I'm satisfied with coming off the bench all the time," Outlaw says. "I want to start ... I feel like I have earned it. But it makes sense for me to come off the bench."

These will be the keys to Outlaw’s success with the Blazers as much as anything:  How well does he play small forward, how many of the shots he takes does he actually put down, and how flexible is he about the situations in which he plays?  Balking in any of those three areas will severely inhibit his role with this team.  It sounds like he understands this, which is half the battle (and more than you can say for a lot of players).    Whether he starts or comes off the bench is not the issue.  How much he’s able to influence the game in the minutes he is allotted will be.  Even with the high-powered company Travis has the potential to be one of the most pivotal players on the team.  He showed that repeatedly in the fourth quarter last year.  He also has the potential to play himself onto the trading block.  How well he answers the above questions (which is the same as saying how well he adapts to his role) will determine his path as much as his talent will.

--Dave (blazersub@yahoo.com)

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The part that seems out of character for Travis

is the part Quick admits is for the benefit of his guys around the table – the Starkville public persona. And Travis reassured us once they are back home that this is not his push at all.

We do see another side of Travis’ character. He is an immense talent. He knows it. He watched Carmelo get all that love and attention on the USA team and he can be better than Carmelo. But he will likely not get a chance to play for the USA with Greg, Brandon, LaMarcus ahead of him in line. Travis is in a great position to play out this contract and then be a free agent. Should the team leap forward over the next two years Travis will gain recognition as well.

And then there was that note of insecurity there about whether the Blazers will pick up his option. Nobody wants to be rejected.

Aldridge said. "We feel like we can beat any team. We feel like we can beat the Spurs, Suns, Lakers, Mavericks, whoever any night right now, and we'll still be here when those teams get old and their guys retire. We're going to be here for a long time."

by lee3022 on Sep 2, 2008 12:13 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

just start him Nate

give him his 35mpg. He’ll find his touches, and if i’m not mistaken, he’ll make them count…….
Bottom line, I feel safe with the ball in Outlaws hands. Period.

by BroyTheTruth on Sep 2, 2008 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're kidding, right?

I shoot layups like they're jumpers.

by MiledAnimal on Sep 2, 2008 5:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

What is Kevin Pritchard suppose to do with this embarrassment of wealth the Blazers have? I hope

he laughs at all these questions because he already has it planned out elaborately. Hopefully the love the fans have for Travis is enough for him to cherish his role, we all know the pay is good. It does make me nervous to think about what’s going to happen to guys like Martell, Outlaw, Bayless, and Rudy if they feel they aren’t the big stars on the team as it rises to the top. I think too many fans (including me) think that the promise of more money and playing time can draw a player away from a team that’s winning. I think Outlaw is more worried about being traded from a winning situation than whether or not he wants to stick around as a 6th man. I think 6th man is on a championship team is better than super star on a losing team.

by BRoyInThe4th on Sep 2, 2008 12:22 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Except he loves him some Carmelo

Aldridge said. "We feel like we can beat any team. We feel like we can beat the Spurs, Suns, Lakers, Mavericks, whoever any night right now, and we'll still be here when those teams get old and their guys retire. We're going to be here for a long time."

by lee3022 on Sep 2, 2008 1:51 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He loves him some freedom like Carmelo

We will read more about his limitations when Nate’s thoughts about the situation are introduced. Like I said in the other thread I don’t think it’s a bad reaction from Travis to aspire to have a bigger role as a reaction to a challenge (more competition). He has experienced a small role before on a team that as he admits himself was stacked with pretty good players, leading to self-doubts in his first three years. Understandably he doesn’t want to go back there. He wants to continue to evolve as a player, and be recognized for it.

But nowhere in this article did I get the feeling “hey, we are looking at the next Shawn Marion. He will leave the Blazers even if they are championship contenders just to be the man on a different team.”

Odenied: Asked whether he noticed Oden favoring his right knee, Frye dismissed it entirely. "He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors."

by Norsktroll on Sep 2, 2008 2:17 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is troublesome

“I don’t want to be a sixth man forever,” Outlaw says.

I hate to say but this article was a bit of an eye opener for me in regards to where Travis is at. I understand where he is coming from and can sympathise with him as well, but hopefully after this year and his first taste of the playoffs will change his view a little.

This is truly the greatest time to be a Blazer fan, yes we have won championships and pushed deep into the playoffs but with those accomplishments came increased expectations. With this team right now, no one knows what the future will bring and we are left running over the possibilities of the beginnings of our dynastic run, how well Oden, Bayless, Rudy and everyone else will play together. We envision all of the players, sans Ike and Raef, remaining with the team for the next decade and becoming the players and team that we are all imagining in these times when the next team that will win us a championship has even played 1 second together.

This upcoming season will be fun as the team is still fleshing out who plays well with the big 3 and that will be the determiner on who goes and who stays, and as much as I like Travis, a tiny part of me wants for him to go to another team and be the man and get the big contract and the accolades as I feel he deserves them all. But the majority of me is greedy and wants Travis to remain a Blazer forever, our super 6th man, Mr. 4th Quarter, and able to light up any player on a Sportcenter highlight reel dunk.

Unfortunatly that is not up to me and only Travis will be able to make that descision, whether to have personal accolades or to play on a team that is going to win a lot of games over the next decade.

Although I do throw 1 caveat in there:

When we win our 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th champiohship with this team all bets are off and the big 3 will remain and anyone who wants to get a championship will sign for the minimum, as we are the only team that is getting them. Chris Paul would look good i Blazer scarlett and black and oh yeah he signs for only $2mill/yr so he can get his ring in 2014.

Get here soon season.

by SpyderRyder on Sep 2, 2008 1:54 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I, too, was taken by that quote...

…I have always felt Travis is one of those players who performs better off the bench – and I ASSUMED he was content with that role. He makes it clear the latter is not the case. The guy has a fire burning inside. And…reading between the lines… as some have suggested, he has no shortage of gray matter.

by Dr Dave on Sep 2, 2008 6:59 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I disagree

with the idea that Outlaw thinking he should start is a bad thing. Who can blame him, he has been here longer than Martell, he is a better player player than #8 as well. It is not like he is an established vet letting the young guy get the run to save energy for the fourth, he is a talented young player who wants to prove to the leg that he is on the same level with guys like Carmelo. He is just asking for his chance. Unfortunately he won’t get that very easily with our team. He wants to be THE scoring option not A scoring option. I think he deserves this but will have to settle for 3rd or 4th scorer on the Blazer squad. LaMarcus would have to go to create room for what Travis desires.

by The Natural ala Mode on Sep 2, 2008 4:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Martell

needs to work on his Defense so he can become a lockdown defender if he wants to stay on this team. Travis however needs to become a decent on ball defender if he wants to start. Our SF starter needs to hit the three, be a threat to take it to the tin and be a good to excellent defender. With those criteria in mind it just makes WAY more sense to start Martell, if he improves from last year even slightly (I notice he has already been in Portland a week…) then he is the better choice. Travis is far more effective being the man on the second unit and playing closer if we need another threat in the 4th. If Travis starts watching Tayshaun Prince and being hungry to defend like that the sky is the limit for him. If however, he only wants to shoot “wet” jumpers, even on the break, then he might never be the choice for starting SF.

He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants

by Idog1976 on Sep 2, 2008 4:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

agreed

but I’m looking at it from Outlaw’s point of view in context to his comments. I have no doubt that Outlaw needs to be in that second unit and that Martell is a better fit in the fab five.

by The Natural ala Mode on Sep 2, 2008 9:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

i think you can never have too many weapons on the floor.....

and at this point, compared to martell, Travis is a greater weapon……….
his athleticism is of a rare breed………perhaps as rare as kobe’s (and he’s taller)…….
martell gets too much credit for just standing on the wing waiting for a pass….Travis meanwhile is multidimensional

by BroyTheTruth on Sep 2, 2008 10:55 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You summed up my thoughts and feelings better then I could have.

I think Outlaw has a long role with us as a 6th man and situational dagger thrower. If he improves his D then he is the obvious choice for starting SF. Until that happens Martell just makes more sense.

He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants

by Idog1976 on Sep 2, 2008 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dave, nice Ferrari imagery, but have you been to Germany lately?

I’ve been there on business travel quite a lot, and honestly you would have a better chance to drive your Ferrari at 120 in Idaho or Iowa. Okay, it’s not legal, but even there while you legally can go as fast as you can on some smaller and smaller stretches you would have to prove an accident couldn’t be avoided at a slower speed if you drive more than 80 mph. Most cross-country roads are crowded with trucks and traffic jams since the market to Eastern Europe opened. On the weekend in some remote corners you might have a change to drive 120 for a longer time, but if you want to drive a race car at top speed it’s easier to go on a closed circuit.

Oh, and gas costs $2. Per liter. That’s about $7.50 per gallon. You better have an NBA-type salary if you want to drive around just for fun in a big SUV or sports car there.

Odenied: Asked whether he noticed Oden favoring his right knee, Frye dismissed it entirely. "He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors."

by Norsktroll on Sep 2, 2008 2:34 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Remember Quick is Supah Good

It may be me but not sure why we need to be reminded about how great a writer we have in Quick – odd way to start. I actually dont mind his human stories but he is terrible in the next day game recaps in the Oregonian – he tries to throw a human story into every one and I can tell by the start it is him without looking at the credit – just give the dang recap.

by BigDaddy72 on Sep 2, 2008 4:48 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Interestresting that Quick's next game

recaps are the first place I go to get an accurate, enjoyable review of the game.

One person’s swan is another’s swine I guess.

I remember telling him how impressed I was with a player during summer league. In Avery's unique voice, he replied, "Marc, it's summer league." I

by TwoDeep on Sep 2, 2008 7:01 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am concurring

If ya want an non-personal, local guy touch, just read the AP reports, or even more the ESPN/SI/NBA.com edited versions of the AP reports, because even the AP people (like Anne Peterson) have added many personal touches about the players because of their time following the team.

Quick does a great job with the recaps, I think. Maybe the best out of the ones I have read (though obviously I don’t read all 30).

I also really like his human interest stuff.

And to BigDaddy, I think Dave just mentioned Quick’s writing because as a beat reporter his writing skills often get overlooked. Quick does a really good job, and has for many years now. I hope we can keep him following the Blazers, but I’m sure he’ll be on to a “better”, less travellin’ job in a few years.

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Sep 2, 2008 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thats true

I gotta couple guys I work with you swear by him – so to each their own – I enjoy when the other guy – Tokito – does the recap – straight to the chase. I will often go to the AP stuff or hit a few sport sites – gives me a chance to see what the rest of nations take is.

by BigDaddy72 on Sep 2, 2008 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

A view from outside of Blazerland

Tom Ziller from NBA FanHouse has this to say: “Outlaw will never average 15 FGAs a night on this team”
and “He deserves to shoot jumpers like layups somewhere. Maybe he’ll get that opportunity in the next year or so.”
http://nba.fanhouse.com/2008/09/01/why-shouldnt-travis-outlaw-feel-squeezed/

ESPN player card: Status Alert: Outlaw expects his scoring opportunities to drop with Rudy Fernandez and Jerryd Bayless joining him on the second unit, the Oregonian reports.

Some blogs just excerpt the Oregonlive article, and interpret it only in their headlines:
Hoopsworld: “Travis Outlaw questions the future”
Hoopsvibe: “Travis Outlaw unhappy with role?”
RealGM: “Portland’s Outlaw Wants To Be A Starter”
HoopsHype: “Bigger role? Bigger role? Blazers forward Travis Outlaw is not content remaining with the status quo of his game, according to the Oregonian”

Seems like quite a few people outside of Portland read (or would like to read) this article as “Outlaw is currently not happy with the Blazers”. Some teams might call KP to try and get them some Outlaw.

Odenied: Asked whether he noticed Oden favoring his right knee, Frye dismissed it entirely. "He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors."

by Norsktroll on Sep 2, 2008 6:41 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Those headlines show about as much grasp of what's going on ...

… as many of the fans here at BE.

In other words, not much.

About the only point in the article worth taking note of – other than as a personal interest piece on Travis – is Quick’s view about Travis falling in love with his jump shot. It doesn’t take an advanced knowledge of the game to realize Outlaw would be a more effective player if he added an attacking the rim aspect to his game. But that’s about it. Outlaw thinking out loud about wanting to start, wanting to have the same freedom to shoot as Anthony, about whether the team will be kept together is just that – thinking out loud. We want Travis to try to be more assertive and to aspire to being the sort of player who garners 15 shot attempts a game.

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Sep 2, 2008 6:55 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Shots

Every NBA player wants more shots. Jordan, Bird, Magic, Shaq, Iverson, Anthony, Reggie Miller, freak’n Wilt the Stilt and Kareem wanted more shots … they earned the right to take them. I think this is a real positive for Outlaw. He’ll earn that right, and so will the other pieces, when they keep the ball on offense by toughening up their D, rebounding and committing .02 turnovers per game all season.

http://www.myspace.com/y5k

by Y5k on Sep 2, 2008 7:26 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Remember, it's a Business

I agree with Dave on this one.

Remember, too, this is a business. Any NBA fan is looking at wins, losses, and playoffs. Any NBA player is looking at those things but he’s also looking at his own paycheck and future at the same time.

Even here, as a I sit in my cubicle I gave out at the vast sea of featureless cubicles and I think to myself: “Self, what are you doing here and what are all of these other people doing here?” When I new gets hired and he gets a cube—or God Forbid an OFFICE!!—I think unavoidably to myself: “Self, there are a couple more sweet gravy projects going in some other direction.”

This doesn’t mean I want the company to fail. But I do want the much smaller enterprise of ME to do well.

Any NBA player has to think of his own minutes and his own shots. In fact, I would imagine most NBA players equate minutes and shots directly to future paychecks.

What this article gives to me—for which I thank JQ—is a glimpse into the mind of the player on the business side of the NBA. That’s the side that is so divorced from the pristine and idealized fantasy of the average fan. Just like the baby boomer gets worried when the new Gen Y hire walks in the door, so Travis gets a bit worried when he sees hot young draft picks come in with a defined set of minutes and shots up for grabs.

It reveals to me a business side and thirst among players simmering under the constraints of coaches and systems ready to boil out in an explosion of individual “investment” in the form of ball-hogging and shots. Remind anyone of a Blazers team not so long ago?

Don’t blame Travis for that. Just pray that the system and culture that KP and Nate are putting together will be adequate to mitigate the negative consequences of the all-too-human individual focus.

by Phizbin on Sep 2, 2008 7:06 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Good perspective on the Travis' comments Dave.

Here’s hoping it helps quell some of the disturbing anti-Outlaw sentiment Quick’s article unfortunately generated. Poor Travis. He’ll probably now be forever reluctant to reveal anything real within him. Fans will have to get used to a steady diet of predictable, boring, canned responses that were the trademark of Drexler and so many other NBA’ers.

I remember telling him how impressed I was with a player during summer league. In Avery's unique voice, he replied, "Marc, it's summer league." I

by TwoDeep on Sep 2, 2008 7:17 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

TRAVIS OUTLAW DAY?

Why was I not informed that Aug. 26 was Travis Outlaw Day?
I would have painted a big red #25 outside my apt and spoke with a folksy ah-shucks drawl all day long.
Next year I’m throwing a big TO25 party … y’all are invited.

-Mat

http://www.myspace.com/y5k

by Y5k on Sep 2, 2008 7:21 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

You didn't notice?

I stocked your bathtub with bass and carp…

by DonkeyShins on Sep 2, 2008 7:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why is Travis worrying about shots?

First of all he’s only an average (44% career, 43% last season) shooter. Secondly, there are SO MANY OTHER THINGS he could be concentrating on to help this team. Rebounding. Defense. Ball handling. Passing.

Meh, I’m not going to read too much into it but I’ve always wondered about Travis’s head and whether or not it will allow him to become a star. Unlike some folks, I don’t think all it takes to be a star is jumping ability.

Blazer Fan

by leeroyjenkins on Sep 2, 2008 7:49 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Also the fact that he'd rather force a jumper than get a dunk or layin

because he saw Kobe make a cool face one time is…troubling…

T-E-A-M imo

Blazer Fan

by leeroyjenkins on Sep 2, 2008 8:03 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Mmmmhmmm

That was the only comment he made that stuck out as slightly troubling. The other stuff was just him thinking out loud. A ramble of small concern. Of course he wants more shots. Off course he wants to start. Of course he wants to be an all star. He also acknowledged that coming off the bench was the best situation for him.

Also, the Blazers WON’T be able to keep everyone together. That’s not breaking news, that’s common sense. That’s why people have been talking about consolidating talent. It’ll happen once we know who fits and who doesn’t. Everybody (here & elsewhere) shoots down various trade offers, many times, because the players coming back in a trade are “too old and don’t fit the timeline”. Teams need a balance of old and young, just as Dave points out, because older players know who they are and are no longer trying to come up in the league.

Witty Unpredictable Talent and Natural Game

by iDea on Sep 2, 2008 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I just wish

he and Martell would hate K*be or at least see him as evil. That’s one good thing about the Jail Blazers. Patterson might not have stopped K*obe, but at least he didn’t idolize him.

by the vegetarian on Sep 2, 2008 5:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well...maybe he idolized him...

At least in regards to how he dealt with women.

(I’m going to hell for that one…but its worth it)

by DonkeyShins on Sep 2, 2008 7:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

We'l need to start getting used to this

Not just from Travis, but it’s the harsh reality of our roster situation.

We have 3 guys who deserve and will probably be unhappy with <35 mpg: Roy, LA, Oden

We have 5 guys who will want at least 25 mpg: TO, Webs, Blake, Bayless, Rudy

Two more that will want at least 15-20 mpg: Frye and Pryz

Then there’s Sergio, who will obviously want a bigger role than last year, which would mean he’d be in that 3rd group, and who knows about Ike.

Obviously, our guys will be demanding more minutes than there are to go around, and this is to say nothing of shots or offensive opportunities like TO alluded to in the article. And also, these are really floors for the numbers. I’d say most of the guys in the second group would be somewhat unhappy to be playing less than 30 mpg (not saying they deserve it, but that’s what they’d want in an ideal world, and I’m sure Brandon/LA/Oden will realistically be around 38 mpg. Even if Sergio, Frye, Ike and Raef never play, we’re still in a minutes crunch, then.

The simple fact is, we have too many talented guys who need more minutes than there are to go around. This is obviously better than having more minutes than talent like I’d argue was the case in the Juan Dixon/Z-Bo years, but it’s still an issue. There’s a reason guys like Jacque Vaughn and Matt Bonner have multiple rings. They’re serviceable enough that they can come in and not get blown out in 5 minutes out there, but they realize that they’re skill level puts them solidly in the position they’ve ended up in in the NBA. Raef is really the only guy of ours like that (not a coincidence that he’s the only 30+ vet on the team).

The fact is that nearly every guy on this team outside of the big 3 and possibly Blake has the talent to demand a bigger role than he’s going to end up getting. This is going to lead to some unhappy players at some point, and down the line one or two will probably end up getting moved, not because we don’t like them, but for their sake. Say Bayless and Rudy explode as bench scorers and Martell turns into like a 45% 3 point shooter and lock down defender overnight, it’s unfair to TO to make him be a 3rd scorer on our second unit. His talent dictates he deserves a better opportunity. Same for whoever ends up as the odd man out.

The sad truth is, we love all of these guys, but at least one or two will outgrow their roles on this team, and to think that we’d move them at that point doesn’t mean we as fans don’t support them, but that they deserve more than we have to offer in terms of roles/shots. I’d love to see these exact same 12-14 guys play together for the next 5 years and win 5 titles together, but, realistically, it’d be surprising if more than 7 or 8 of them are on the second title team in blazer history.

Just something that we as fans will have to learn to live with.

by Royster on Sep 2, 2008 8:03 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re your statement ...

 … The fact is that nearly every guy on this team outside of the big 3 and possibly Blake has the talent to demand a bigger role than he’s going to end up getting….

Just because a player has talent, it does not mean he can “demand” playing time. Playing time is earned, as much through hard work and execution as it is by talent. If Travis wants to start, or doesn’t want to lose shot attempts and minutes to Rudy and Bayless, then it is up to him to ensure that it doesn’t happen. He has to make it impossible for McMillan not to play him more.

Bayless and Fernandez are not going to be handed minutes and key roles with the second unit. Those roles may be there for them to grab, but they still have to earn them. The same holds true for Channing Frye, Rodriguez, Ike Diogu, etc. Having a surplus of talent is not a bad thing, nor is it something fans should be worrying about. That’s Nate’s job and Pritchard’s. Besides, I think McMillan’s experience with the Olympic Team has shown him that you can manage playing time among a talent loaded team. In fact it allows you to do more things. If our #6 thru #12 guys are so good, then it would not hurt the team for Roy, Oden, Aldridge, Webster and Blake to average only 25 minutes (give or take). In fact it would probably be an advantage for them, as it would help limit the wear and tear of an NBA season.

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Sep 2, 2008 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Didn't mean "Demand" in the literal sense

but in the sense that all of them are talented enough to play more minutes than they’ll get here. Using the national team as an example, Deron Williams’ play essentially demanded that he needed to get more time, despite him being the 3rd PG on the team, so Jason Kidd’s minutes were cut down and we saw some DWill/CP back courts.

    Realistically, I’d really say there’s very few situations where I’m okay with our players coming out complaining about playing time to the press, but at the same time, if they’re playing really well, it’s not out of the question to think they might think they deserve more PT in the league than is available here, and if they would get it on a slightly less crowded roster and still provide the contribution that they’re replacement is providing on the blazers, maybe they do deserve more PT.

As far as guys averaging 25 mpg, that is utterly and completely unrealistic. There is not a single elite player in the game who would be happy with only playing 25 mpg, regardless of how the team is doing. These guys are competitive and want to play, not to mention they have to think about getting paid and getting new contracts. Guys don’t work at their games their entire lives to come in and sit on the bench.

With the Olympics, guys are a lot more willing to accept lesser roles because it’s such a short term experience and there are no financial implications, as in, Carlos Boozer isn’t going to get a lesser contract because he’s only averaging 10 mpg on the national team, whereas if Boozer is only playing 10 mpg on an NBA team, there’s no way he’s going to get paid like a near max player, even if he happens to be on the same team as Bosh and Howard. I’m not saying Shawn Marion is completely representative of our guys, but he couldn’t even be satisfied playing like 38 mpg and being a key part of an elite suns team because he wasn’t getting enough respect nationally or made the focal point of the offense. Obviously none of our guys are like that, but what you’re suggesting be the case for them is a far more significant sacrifice than what Marion had to deal with.

And finally, having too much talent can affect adversely in terms of chemistry. If you lose a couple games, guys start agitating about why they’re not playing more because they know they can contribute more than they’re playing, and guys start losing minutes so even if Rudy is happy with playing 25 mpg, when adversity hits and Roy starts playing 40+ mpg and Rudy drops under 20 not because he’s doing anything wrong, but just because Roy is our best player, is Rudy going to be happy with that?

Having a bunch of hungry players competing for minutes = good.
A bunch of upset players who feel like nothing they do will increase their minutes(See: Sergio) = bad.

There’s a fine line between the two, and if one guy’s minutes/shots are going to increase, someone else’s is going to go down. It’s naive to think that all of our guys are always going to think that they’re getting exactly what they deserve in terms of PT/shots, and if we’re unable to consistently find them the minutes they’re looking for, that “hunger” will turn to irritation or complaining even in the players with the best attitudes.

by Royster on Sep 2, 2008 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Everyone would be happy if...

the team would score around 110 to 114 a game. The Blazers should note have to send as many people to the boards this next year as they have in the past, Oden will take care of most of the heavy lifting in the paint. Which means that they will have more shots in the open court, which in my mind means more shots for Trout. For Trout’s sake, I hope all the talk about opening up the offence and running more happens this year.

P.S. Larry Miller…..Get the Comcast / Dish 500 deal done!!!

2-4 the who

by 24thewho on Sep 2, 2008 8:11 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I think Dave's got a reasonable take here

The article didn’t raise any alarms with me. His saying he doesn’t want to be a 6th man forever is something you expect every athlete with heart to say. His concern about being able to keep the team together is no different from anybody else. He wants to shoot more? Who doesn’t?

I took heart that he’s fairly normal in his desires but also recognizes the value of remaining humble and rooted in his values.

Free Joel Freeland! (with the purchase of 1 Wafer)

by LaughingJon on Sep 2, 2008 8:39 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Change

Good analysis of the article. One thing I’d like to state is that in the past Outlaw was criticized, by some, for being too passive. Now he’s gained some confidence, now he want’s some shots and is thinking he can be more than a 6th man. This really isn’t a problem, I think it’s growth. Dave sites a conversation between Drazen Petrovich and Danny Ainge to site different players attitudes at different stages in their careers. Well keep in mind we ended up trading Petrovich away. If Outlaw develops a similar dissatifaction with his available role we might have to trade Outlaw away, for Outlaws good as well as the teams. However, I think it’s premature. Outlaw is loyal to those around him, his family and friends. Right now I just hear some confidence that I think is good for Outlaw. Let’s see if he can carve out a role on this team that he is happy with, and that the team is happy with. The growth of a talented player can become a situation a team has to adjust to but it’s the type of problem you like to have. If Outlaw becomes too good, or unhappy as a result of his perceived role then immediately it becomes a challenge for Nate McMillan and failing that perhaps then a challenge for Kevin Pritchard. However we aren’t at that stage yet and we may never be.

"Mother Nature started this fight, I think it's about time we ended it!"

by Krang on Sep 2, 2008 8:59 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

What's important is how Travis plays

not what he says. If he starts playing like he’s talking, the team and he are in trouble. If he does what he did last season and does it better, adds a new skill/weapon, all is good. I think that’s what we’ll see.

I also think Travis is voicing a sentiment echoed by others on the team. I have to disagree with Royster’s breakdown of which player wants which minutes. I doubt there is even one player on the team who doesn’t want to start and play big minutes.

I hope we win the championship this year so everyone stays relatively happy and gets a ring with the Blazers before KP starts consolidating the roster.

I shoot layups like they're jumpers.

by MiledAnimal on Sep 2, 2008 10:12 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

keeping the likes....

… of Travis, Rudy and Bayless happy is going to be a bigtime challenge. I’d be shocked if all 3 of those guys is on our first championship team.

Boomshakalaka

by jksnake99 on Sep 2, 2008 10:58 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Then you must be thinking....

…. that one of them will be traded before this season’s February deadline.

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Sep 2, 2008 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Heh heh heh.

I see what you did there.

--

by CaptainSexyJacob on Sep 2, 2008 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If Martell is traded

some of this goes away. Not that I’m advocating that, really.

You know, someone who can effectively shoot the “forgotten mid-range jumper” that sportswriters are forever talking about (“everyone wants to shoot 3s or dunk”) is very valuable. Sure, Aldridge and Frye can shoot the mid-range jumper, and Roy as well, but Outlaw possesses a unique ability to get that shot off all the time. And the fact that he views it as easy as a lay-in is a positive in my mind.

by jamon51 on Sep 2, 2008 11:39 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I don't really want our players taking a lot of mid-range jumpers

la3’s and close range shots have much higher effective field goal percentages than mid-range jumpers, and even if they miss the chance of an offensive rebound will be higher than with the mid-range shot. Players should avoid shooting mid-range shots unless they are unable to get an open 3 or good close range shot.

by trk on Sep 2, 2008 9:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The part that makes my heart cringe the most

is the part where Outlaw says, “I don’t know if they are going to be able to keep us together.”

--

by CaptainSexyJacob on Sep 2, 2008 11:48 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

My hope for Outlaw is that he develops an understanding that he can be a star in this league as the sixth man. Look at Ginobli with the Spurs. Travis can be that kind of an impact player. In fact, I would argue that he has a greater chance to be a star from the second unit at this point in his career than he does with the first – this is why. If he’s playing alongside Oden, Roy and Aldridge (which he will sometimes too), he has to fight for touches and scoring opportunities. As the sixth man, he will quite often be the primary scorer – the main option for the team. Other than the ego thing, he might be better off on the second team if the Blazers can prove that they are one of the elite teams in the league.

Another point that should be said is this. Outlaw has the physical tools to be as great as Kobe, Wade or James. I don’t know that anyone would argue that point. But not all great athletes are great basketball players. If he focuses in on what will make him a great player, McMillan won’t be able to deny giving Outlaw all of the minutes and shots he can handle. So Travis, we want you here…but be smart about where you look for your answers. They may lie inside of you.

by BlazerNation on Sep 2, 2008 3:22 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

That jump shot....

OK….that’s my only concern…..falling in love with the jump shot. Why, oh why, once some players develop a decent jump shot, do they invariably fall in love with it, to the exclusion of the lay-up/dunk?

It’s as if they want to show what great shooters they are, only to ignore their best tools… Case in point, Rasheed Wallace. How many times when he was a Blazer and now with the Pistons, does he drift outside and jack up 3s? He could demolish people down low. And I hope the same does not happen with Travis. As a person, Travis seems like the anti-Sheed. I just hope he remembers to take advantage of his incredible physical talents down low and make the opposition 3s look slow and lame….that would make him the anti-Sheed on the court as well.

by antediluvian on Sep 2, 2008 3:40 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

If Coach says, "You could be unstoppable"

That’s bound to make you want to take more shots. And I didn’t see anything in Coach’s improvement list about Travis getting more assists. So damn! Fire that thing up there.

by ralphzillo on Sep 2, 2008 4:06 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Coach compared him to Kobe

Kobe gets to the line because he don’t give up the ball. Although he is a much better assist maker than Travis. I hope that Travis can come close to a Kobe-type game where you just hope the dude is a bit off that night.

by ralphzillo on Sep 3, 2008 8:40 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Much ado ...

Travis’ comments are provocative at best, definitely nothing to be alarmed about.

When I used to manage my staff and there annual reviews, I told them if they don’t rate themselves high, neither will I. If you don’t believe your great, why should I?

Travis has game, he wants to showcase it. It can be channeled and developed and be a huge asset to the Blazers for years to come. It doesn’t seem that long ago a restless 24 year old Blazer named Drexler wanted a bigger role too. That didn’t work out too shabby in the end, did it?

by TP for 3 on Sep 2, 2008 4:30 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, I had a boss like you once

until we all gave you what you said you wanted. For some reason, you didn’t agree that we were all the most astounding, incredible, brilliant, innovative, hardest-working, on-fire for the company employees you’d ever seen — maybe because we added that we expected to be paid like it. You stopped telling us to write BS on our self-evaluations after that and began evaluating us yourself, which was really your job and call anyway.

I shoot layups like they're jumpers.

by MiledAnimal on Sep 2, 2008 5:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

In America, you don’t get paid for effort. You get paid for results.

“You want a Pepsi pal, you gotta pay for it” – Back to the Future

Bow Down to Washington

by TP for 3 on Sep 2, 2008 6:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yet ironically

I’ve seen lots of middle-managers who don’t do a damn thing all day (including managing) who ride the crest of the wave when their underlings perform. Go figure.

So I guess you’re right – but in this case, they’re putting in zero effort and getting paid for others’ results.

by DonkeyShins on Sep 2, 2008 7:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry, sorry, sorry

Sounds like his agent talking for Travis…..Travis surely does not understand what he is talking about….This guy should understand one thing….on this team you earn your spots and roles…You have the tools, but you are on a “Team”…as soon as you put your own personal goals first, you become a detriment to everything…Anthony is a good example…His team will never win a championship if he is the “go to guy”…Get a clue, Travis. You are on a building team with the weakest position at the 3…Why is it the weakest position?….because it is occupied by you and Webster…The Blazers have shown a lot of patience with you and Webster….Your obviously not mature enough to return the favor…I don’t see you diving on the floor for loose balls or having relentless pursuit of the ball on rebounds…You should of went to college, they could have taught you a lot about life …If you want to be a starter…that is a great goal…Go out and earn it, because you haven’t yet. You better get it done soon..You got your minutes on a bad team…Now this team is getting better….So you better keep up

by 67 on Sep 3, 2008 10:03 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

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