Blazers-Bulls trade rumor
by OdenRoyLMA on Aug 26, 2008 11:29 PM PDT
174 comments
The Portland Trail Blazers are in an intense search to find a point guard, and they’re interested in one on the Chicago Bulls. The Blazers have offered Forward Travis Outlaw and Center Joel Przybilla to Bulls in exchange for Kirk Hinrich and possibly a future draft pick. The Bulls are mildly interested in the deal, but are still reluctant to trade Hinrich. The Bulls are trying to see if the Blazers have any interest in Ben Gordon instead, that of course if Gordon is interested in accepting a deal to go to the Blazers. Outlaw, a five year veteran, averaged 13.3 points and 4.6 rebounds per game last season. Przybilla, an eight year veteran, averaged 4.8 points and 8.4 rebounds per game last season.
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psh!
wow. Just because one rumor had Portland throwing Outlaw at Memphis for a point guard does not mean we’re throwing him around everywhere. Hinrich is arguably Blake’s Wario, so why get Hinrich to pair him with Blake, Bayless, and Sergio? Just so we can have one true SF and lose the guy that will be the best back-up center in the league. Every indication we’ve to this point has had the Blazers being very reluctant to trade Outlaw, and trading Joel would be even more foolish as we’d be hurting if Oden ever got injured again.
KP is way too smart to accept any poo-poo platter from chitown.
"You can't buy your woman a watch because she got a clock on the stove."-Sir Charles Barkley
by shwa on Aug 26, 2008 11:39 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
That would be a strange move
Kirk is basically a better version of Blake, but he’s making more money that I’d want to pay him. Kirk would fit great with our starting lineup- but Joel and Trout’s a pretty steep price.
Boomshakalaka
by jksnake99 on Aug 26, 2008 11:51 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
dont buy into it
I remember hearing kp comment that they wernt really intrested in hinrich because he would put a major dent in the cap, and that paul allen didnt want anything like that to interfere with the cap. Especially something that wouldnt make us much better.
by raging WebTed on Aug 26, 2008 11:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ya right.
This would be a bonehead trade.
Ya, less small forwards and more guards, that’s what we need.
Give me a break!
by Bedhead on Aug 27, 2008 12:11 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
No thanks
I would like to see how Blake does this year.
I'm a little confused by your tactics
by oderiferous emanations 74 on Aug 27, 2008 12:12 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
WTH?
Makes no sense. Hinrich doesn’t even begin to approach the value of either Trout or Pryz. I don’t even know if I’d call Hinrich that significant of an upgrade over Blake – his stats are all slightly better (excepting 3PT%) and he is arguably a better defender than Blake (but then again, he also outweighs him by 20-odd pounds), but he’s no CP3.
In lieu of Anne:
#25
And, purely from me:
#10
by DonkeyShins on Aug 27, 2008 12:26 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Thanks hon.
"Besides, AnntheFan will be here any minute to #25 you." T Darkstar
by annthefan on Aug 27, 2008 1:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is crazy talk
I do not know why Bulls fans are trying to fabricate Hinrich for a C. Although there is starting to be a lot of smoke around but I can’t see the fire yetm this makes me wondre some.
Both of these are ludacrous in saying that we want a PG. We have a solid, is unspectacular, vet, a flashy, yet unproven rook, and a sparkplug that may or may not pan out.
Both of these trades, the Mem and the Chi one baffle the hell out of me, as why would we trade our only true SF for ANOTHER PG?? We have not even seen Bayless play with the team yet to make any assumptions on his fit and Blake was more than solid last year in the minutes he played, which comes down to whether or not you think that the combo of Rudy and Bayless can come in and give us at least what Jack produced
see:
http://www.blazersedge.com/2008/3/20/35333/0161#4789015
and Bayless, while not a top ten pick, was widely considered a top 5-10 talent.
This does not even bring into play the fact that they want Pryz as well, who may be the odd man out in the rotation, but with Odens health and foul concerns, he is an insurance plan well worth his cost.
Bottom line is that both Blake and Pryz could start on half of the teams in the NBA and TO was in the top 10 in the 6th man of the year voting and we want to trade a starting caliber C and a top notch 6th man for a PG who is marginally better than who we have at twice the cost?
Get that weak stuff out of here.
by SpyderRyder on Aug 27, 2008 12:31 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
if...
they were to offer us Deng or Rose, we’re all ears. Otherwise, poo-poo platter. I think Chitown is still mad about the Ty Thomas for Aldridge deal. They want to compensate for that pritch-slap by fantasizing about doing the same back to us.
The real issue is that last year, in the EAST, the Bulls couldn’t even get to the playoffs when under 500 teams like Philly made it in. This all only ONE YEAR after sweeping the defending champs outta the first round. They had a disastrous season last year and I think it had to do more with the players than Scott Skiles or Ben Wallace. If you can’t win half your games in the Eastern conf, where you play 52 of 82 games against other East teams, you’re simply not an impressive bball team. They have a ton of talent and it seems like they could be on the rebound after landing Rose, but I’m not sold on any of their players—including Deng and Rose their two best. If the Blazers/3rd youngest team in league history can get 41 wins in the WEST with Blake at the helm, his value in terms of wins is way higher than Hinrich right now. Bayless has more potential to be a star than Hinrich as well. And like everyone else says, who wants to pay Hinrich 10 million a season for the next 4 years!? Blake costs us half as much and he’s as embedded as any of our players in the community. Trout is a fan favorite with still-burgeoning potential which only recently has earned him national attention. Pryz is a rock down low and was our only true big last year, and his brawn and “won’t take a sheez from anyone” demeanor will continue to be an important foundation for this team in the coming years. Pryz also turned down more money in order to play here and has suffered through some of our worst seasons. I know Hinrich went to KP’s alma mater, but aside from that, this rumor is just one big poo poo platter.
"You can't buy your woman a watch because she got a clock on the stove."-Sir Charles Barkley
by shwa on Aug 27, 2008 12:38 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Really?
If…they were to offer us Deng or Rose, we’re all ears. Otherwise, poo-poo platter. I think Chitown is still mad about the Ty Thomas for Aldridge deal. They want to compensate for that pritch-slap by fantasizing about doing the same back to us.
Come on, man. Compensate for that pritch-slap? Get a grip.
Also, Hinrich would immediately be your second best guard, so I don’t know why you’re talking about it being a poo poo platter. You guys are trying to win now, right? Well, this makes you better assuming Hinrich returns to his statistical norms from the past. The fact that you’re saying Steve Blake’s value is “way higher” than Hinrich’s is hysterical." Take off those KP sunglasses and get some perspective – you could certainly use it.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Aug 27, 2008 7:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
That if we trraded for Hinrich he would immediately be our second best guard THIS YEAR. But not NEXT YEAR. By next year he would probably be our third or maybe even fourth. (behind Rudy and Bayless) This trade is pretty freaking ridiculous, they amount of talent that we would give up is way too much, and Hinrich is not worth it since we wont need him by next year. You sound like a Chicago fan, I feel sorry for you, Paxon is an idiot, hes one of those guys that he thinks he knows what hs doing becuase hes had a little bit of success but in reality he dosen’t, and you can see that from the LMA trade for thomas, and him drafting Rose instead of Beasly when Beasly was exactly the type of player that Chicago needed to be a good team in the east. Now with rose they are gonna have to rebuild all over again cause they still dont have a big man who can score, and you dont win without big man. Chicago is still gonna suck for awhile.
by ggassen85 on Aug 27, 2008 8:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The amount of talent you're going to give up is way too much?
That’s laughable. A one-dimensional backup SF and a decent space-eater in the middle who is a legit backup. That’s not really a whole lot of talent. Hinrich is a better player than both of them.
The Rose/Beasley comment you made is also hilarious considering Beasley is more of a wing in the Carmelo mode than a PF. Not to mention that Rose has more superstar potential. And Tyrus is the PF of the future. Go look at his per 36 stats and prepare to eat a nice piece of crow. It’s not his fault we had a psycho like Skiles who refused to give him serious minutes for no reason.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Aug 27, 2008 9:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Travis is "A one-dimensional backup SF..."
Then why would Chicago do the trade?
I used to be indecisive, but now I'm not so sure.
by JAB21 on Aug 27, 2008 9:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow
I love how Bulls fans have this obsessed crazy conviction that Tyrus Thomas is a sure-fire superstar, always based on statistical extrapolations from the small minutes he got… LOL.
Hey, why don’t we trade Sergio Rodriguez for Luol Deng and Hinrich… look at Sergio’s per 40 min stats, he’s going to be better than Steve Nash, be prepared to eat crow! It’s not his fault Nate hated him and refused to give him serious minutes for no reason.
by TimG on Aug 27, 2008 9:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
In fairness
Hinrich is WAY better than Blake, and while we value #25 highly here, the rest of the league does not feel the same way.
Illini15: What do you think is a fair trade from our end for Hinrich? Understand that we do really value our cap space. Would you be willing to throw a late 1st in there for us?
Also.. seriously as a fan of the entire league. Tyrus Thomas sucks. I hate to break it to you. I cussed out Pritch for drafting him. He is Stromile Swift all over again. Sorry. Although I also did NOT think Aldridge would be as good as he is.
"Why would we lie to ourselves dude?"
"Be excellent to each other."
"All we are is dust in the wind, dude."
"Strange things are afoot at the Circle K."
The Wisdom of Bill S Preston Esquire and Ted Theodore Logan
by GreatOden'sRaven on Aug 27, 2008 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ask not what we can do for Hinrich...
Ask what Hinrich can do for us!
I would not necessarily agree that Travis Outlaw is devalued around the league. He’s 23 years old, he has a relatively manageable contract at $4 million per for the next 2 years, and he’s established himself in at least one facet of the NBA game of basketball (which comparatively is infinitely more established than 23 year olds who are just entering the league). Granted, it’s a little disconcerting that he’s spent his 5th NBA offseason learning how to dribble with both hands but the fact of the matter is that a player who can come off the bench and score 13.3 points per game and shoot roughly 40% from 3PT land is a valuable commodity.
Outlaw’s value aside, however, would you say that Kirk Hinrich (making $10 million, $9.5, $9.0 and then $8.5 million over the next 4 years) is TWICE as valuable as Steve Blake (who is set for one more year at $4.59 million)?
Portland, now, is in a situation where we will have a ton of cap room to actively pursue a free-agent point guard in the off-season. We also have Raef’s expiring contract and a couple young players available (namely: Outlaw) to sweeten any deal that happens this year… Any trade that occurs now almost HAS to be lop-sided, because we’re sacrificing our future ability to make a deal and/or sign a free agent. At the beginning of the year, I would aruge that no one felt Kwame Brown + Javaris Crittenden (and the underrated Marc Gasol) was worth Pau Gasol, but as the Lakers waited, the value of their package increased.
Essentially, the Hinrich deal has to be sweet enough for us to sacrifice a major bargaining chip in any and all future trades. So, it’s not just Przybilla + Outlaw for Kirk Hinrich, it’s Przybilla + Outlaw + the rough equivalent of an MLE player (an approx. amount of contract space we’re sacrificing over the next 4 years) for 4 years and $37 million of a statistically decling Kirk Hinrich.
In order to sacrifice our potential to do a future deal, I would have Pritchard offer two separate (but linked) deals to Chicago…
1.) Ike Diogu for Joakim Noah
2.) Steve Blake (expiring contract) & Travis Outlaw (2 yrs remain) for Kirk Hinrich (4 yr deal)
It is necessary for two deals to occur, because Diogu has a Trade Restriction that prevents him from being dealt in a package with another player as of right now. If Paxson agreed to both deals, I would pull the trigger. Otherwise, we’re better of waiting for a better deal than Chicago can offer…
From Chicago’s end, the trade does not make sense on a pure talent basis, but Chicago would free up $6 million after next season, and $9 million the following year if the chose not to re-sign Travis Outlaw. It’s not a whole lot, but Portland has a ton of bargaining power right now, so it may be the best deal they can get from us…
"Now, you take a bobcat or a Jayhawk. You know they'll run if you give 'em the chance. But when one don't run, why, you shoot him and shoot him quick. Raef's my dog, Pa. I've gotta do what's right..." Old Yeller (1957)
by RoyGoesTheDynamite on Aug 27, 2008 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Impressive post. lots of words.. smells like rich mahogany
Hinrich is better than Blake by a long shot, but his salary does concern me, hence why I asked Illini if he would throw something else in there. I dont think Hinrich is declining, he is still young, he just had a bad year.
As far as Outlaw goes, I don’t live in Portland, so I dont get homer radio or news down here. From what I can tell people think he is a pretty decent 6th man. He has some skills and a great contract, but Blazer fans think he is part of the “big 4” whereas other teams view him as more of a 6th man.
I’m not saying i would do the trade. It would take more. but I think we are undervaluing Hinrich and overvaluing Trout
"Why would we lie to ourselves dude?"
"Be excellent to each other."
"All we are is dust in the wind, dude."
"Strange things are afoot at the Circle K."
The Wisdom of Bill S Preston Esquire and Ted Theodore Logan
by GreatOden'sRaven on Aug 27, 2008 4:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Bulls deal the 2 best players
and Hinrich’s deal isn’t so prohibitive that they have to dump his salary. He should be able to fetch something decent.
I realize Noah is a goof but he’s a productive one (just not at shooting).
management sez: recommend fanposts/fanshots/comments! Click 'reply' when replying to a comment! Flag jerkfaces!
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 27, 2008 5:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
but it is ty's fault
for being nothing more than a great athlete who can’t dribble, can’t shoot, and quite frankly just isn’t that smart either
"You can't buy your woman a watch because she got a clock on the stove."-Sir Charles Barkley
by shwa on Aug 27, 2008 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hinrich is a good player,
but right now he wouldn’t be too valuable to our team. Outlaw is our scorer off the bench and clutch down the stretch. Pryzbilla is the only proven center on our team and will be a great player for Greg to learn from. If we did do this trade Hinrich would be our starting point guard but would be distributing to Roy, LMA, and Oden before taking his own shot.
While he is an upgrade over Blake, he isn’t nearly enough of an upgrade over him to make it worth trading our two best bench players.
@('.')@
by JTDuck22 on Aug 27, 2008 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
wow okay dude
nobody wants your poo poo platter. Blake’s actual value is higher right now because he’s a third as expensive and actually improved last year on a good team. Your guy got worse on a bad team. Obviously you’re just a chitown homer trying desperately to poo on us after being poo-ed on by us. But seriously good luck with the whole mediocrity thing the next ten years.
"You can't buy your woman a watch because she got a clock on the stove."-Sir Charles Barkley
by shwa on Aug 27, 2008 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ill-i-noise, you remember when you had MJ?
We don’t want to win now, we want to win for the next decade. We have no interest in these short term fixes. We have no short term to fix. We are fine. We are golden. And we are not doing this deal.
See you when you get more talent.
'77
by LaoTzu on Aug 27, 2008 4:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
With are versatile backcourt...
Blake, Roy, Bayless, and Rudy…
I’d say that PG position is well covered.
by sagebru5h on Aug 27, 2008 12:51 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
How about
Martell and RLEC for JRich and Sean May?
"You can't buy your woman a watch because she got a clock on the stove."-Sir Charles Barkley
by shwa on Aug 27, 2008 1:16 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
better than most...
ideas ive heard around here
by BroyTheTruth on Aug 27, 2008 1:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
JRich is a lot better than any of that crap you guys would be sending.
But that would certainly be a pritch-slap!
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Aug 27, 2008 7:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed...
"Why would we lie to ourselves dude?"
"Be excellent to each other."
"All we are is dust in the wind, dude."
"Strange things are afoot at the Circle K."
The Wisdom of Bill S Preston Esquire and Ted Theodore Logan
by GreatOden'sRaven on Aug 27, 2008 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So it's a deal then?
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
by hobobob on Aug 27, 2008 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hinrich is not the guy to lead this team to the promised land
He is somewhat of an upgrade over Blake especially on defense. But last year he showed little skills in leading and motivating his slumping team, which was disappointing, just falling in line with everybody else. He declined as an outside shooter (now takes less shots and has a lower percentage), is more turnover prone, and overall not that much better or younger but drastically more expensive. Next year he would cost us more than three times as much as Steve. No deal. Especially not for any combo that includes a backup center we will really need in the next year(s)
Odenied: Asked whether he noticed Oden favoring his right knee, Frye dismissed it entirely. "He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors."
by Norsktroll on Aug 27, 2008 1:23 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Deal it
First, It’s obvious that Outlaw and Prz are not KP’s guys.Basically, they are not chosen by KP origionally exept for Martell on the team, and we have to admitt that KP has his own standard to measure players.He seems comfortable to collect Right players no matter what positions they play, even if we have too many talents in the same position he still might do the trade.This is why it is more and more fun to see what KP is going to do from now on.
Second, if we don’t know a player much then we shouldn’t judge him too early.Hinich might have something KP needs, his shooting, character, leadership,etc, and don’t forget he is from Kansas.
For me, I would like to see #88 on the court plus Hinrich instead of Outlaw himself only.Batum won’t disappoint us I am sure.Furthermore, if we deal Przbilla then Frye and Ike would see more playing time, isn’t that a good idea?So I’m with the deal.
Our 2R are basketball geniuses-Roy and Rudy
by asiafan on Aug 27, 2008 1:35 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Asiafan...
Do you think KP is that stupid or petty? I don’t. He wants the best team on the court and in the community. He loves him up some Travis Outlaw. Best friends with Roy, hard to match up with offensively, loves being here, doesn’t mind coming off the bench… I doubt KP wants to get rid of him just because he didn’t draft or trade for him.
Zilla is the best back up in the game. Perfect for to learn Oden some center game in practice and take the pressure of in relation to either playing time, fouls or injury. Ubur Oden insurance who doesn’t mind staying here in a good town and coming off the bench.
Me I dont’ want none of those drunken Chi players unless there names are Rose or Deng and I’m not so sure about Deng.
I do like the trade proposals. So keep em coming.
by Blazersaurus on Aug 27, 2008 8:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
KP resigned Outlaw and was part of resigning Przybilla.
He was at least fine with having them on the roster. I don’t see how they really disappointed besides Joel’s injury season. I just don’t see how Outlaw and Przybilla aren’t KP’s guys.
In addition, Hinrich may have character and shooting, but does he have leadership? I’m just wondering since I’ve looked at (a somewhat biased) Blog-a-Bulls. Some people there constantly question Hinrich’s leadership.
Finally, Batum hasn’t really shown he’s more than a project yet. Why trade for an established veteran PG and play the raw rookie at the same time? The trade would require more trades.
by poster on Aug 27, 2008 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, no, no
A good PG like Hinrich for two great back-ups that are necessary for any team in SF and C? Having Blake, Sergio and Bayless With the option of playing Roy and Rudy in SG and PG???
NO WAY
Blazers Fans are my boys, Celtic my bhoys.
by Nakamura on Aug 27, 2008 2:53 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Rudy and Bayless haven't proved anything in the NBA.
Hinrich makes you a lot better now. Aren’t you guys trying to contend?
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Aug 27, 2008 7:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Obviously
Rudy and Bayless haven’t prove anything in the NBA becuse they haven’t played any game, be sure they will need some time to adapt to the league BUT, do you really think trading two essential back-ups (again SF & C) for Hinrich, a starter & talented PG, is what Blazers need to contend? I don’t think so.
Blazers Fans are my boys, Celtic my bhoys.
by Nakamura on Aug 27, 2008 8:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hinrich didn't make the Bulls "a lot" better
He was awful last year.
Bayless isn't the second coming of Jordan.
Jordan was the first coming of Bayless.
by KP Corleone on Aug 27, 2008 8:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
As I said in a previous post
You’d have to think he’ll return to his statistical norms. In that case, he’s your 2nd best guard.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Aug 27, 2008 9:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This year
But next year and the year after, I doubt it.
No, we’re really not yet in “win now” mode. We won’t be sacrificing much for someone who is really only likely to make much difference this year. We don’t really expect a championship this year anyway. It might come, but probably not until next year or a year or two later.
By then, Kirk would be our third or fourth best guard. I don’t see giving up two nice role players for a third or fourth best guard when it matters. If our horizon were next year, yes. But it isn’t.
Other people don't have as much practice at being wrong as I do -- HT, timbo
by jscot on Aug 27, 2008 9:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trying awfully hard to pitch Hinrich...
A couple points that generally summarize our collective opinion of Kirk Hinrich…
1.) I’m wary of any player that is actively being shopped by the fans of his own team. Notice how there are always at least 5 responses to any Travis Outlaw trade that say “No – We love Travis Outlaw” or “#25”. That means we like the player and we see his presence as a generally positive influence on the team. There was no such love for a player like Zach Randolph. By pushing Hinrich so hard, you’re making him look like a Zach Randolph type player (someone who is devalued by his own team & fan base) and that isn’t exactly a compliment.
2.) Rudy and Bayless haven’t proven anything in the NBA because they haven’t been given a chance. It is fallacious logic to say “You can’t contend with talented rookies” when your own squad is seemingly willing to put their franchise on the back of (rookie) Derrick Rose. If Bayless (Summer League MVP) and Rudy Fernandez (established Euroleague star) haven’t proven anything at the NBA level, then what exactly has Derrick Rose proved? Why is Chicago unwilling to part with him?
3.) Statistically, yes, it is difficult to argue that Kirk Hinrich would not be an upgrade over Steve Blake, Sergio Rodriguez, and the combination of Rudy/Jerryd who could potentially see time at the point next year. However, all indicators show that Hinrich’s statistics are trending downward. You say “You’d have to think he’ll return to his statistical norms” but there’s no inherent evidence that makes this true. A player can either improve or decline and if last year was any indication, Hinrich is declining.
4.) At the risk of making this compilation a little long winded, I’ll outline a final point: You have to consider how the incoming player fits in with our current roster and compare this to the potential benefit of the two players who are departing. As constructed, Hinrich would need to be a steady ballhandler, a tough defender of undersized point guards, and a deadly three-point shooter to maximize his effectiveness on our roster. In at least one of these categories (namely 3PT%), Steve Blake is more effective. As a package, you are correct in that Kirk Hinrich would be our second best guard, but we’re really only gaining benefit in two categories: steady ballhandling & tough defense (which may or may not be true).
However, these net gains must then be compared against our net losses, which are numerous. We lose a solid backup center (which means a decrease in rebounding, interior toughness, and adds exponentially more pressure on Greg Oden to perform night in and night out) and we lose Travis Outlaw (less mismatches off the bench, less scoring off the bench, and less unbelievably awesome post-game interviews).
More simply…
Is our increase in steady ballhandling and tough defense at the PG postion greater than our loss in the interior and coming off our bench? When you factor in the risk that Kirk Hinrich may not fit in with the young talent in Portland, the risk greatly outweighs the reward…
"Now, you take a bobcat or a Jayhawk. You know they'll run if you give 'em the chance. But when one don't run, why, you shoot him and shoot him quick. Raef's my dog, Pa. I've gotta do what's right..." Old Yeller (1957)
by RoyGoesTheDynamite on Aug 27, 2008 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions 7 recs
+1
"Jerryd is straight ahead at you. Rudy dips around. Jerryd is a rock. Rudy is the wind. Jerryd loves the ball in his hands. Rudy moves without it. Jerryd defends by getting up in your grill. Rudy plays the spaces in between. Jerryd has focused vision. Rudy sees all around him. Jerryd likes to score off of the dribble. Rudy can catch and shoot. Jerryd is aggressive. Rudy is sneaky. Jerryd will hit you hard. Rudy will annoy you until you hit him." -Dave
Word.
by joelor on Aug 27, 2008 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd argue Blake is the better "steady ballhandler."
Blake is absolutely solid. He rarely turns it over and has very good ballhandling skills. He’s just not a scorer or risktaker. I think Hinrich would give scoring punch and defense, though Hinrich was uncharacteristically poor on defense last season.
by poster on Aug 27, 2008 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yup, good points
Would have to think that a trade like this may involve something else…another team may want Hinrich and could involve other players….or us keeping him and having another plan to get a 3….I know Outlaw has some value around the league ….to get good players you have to give up some value. Joel would also have some value…..If it was Webster and Pryz, they would probably take a chance on a Hinrich fit that may involve a future 3 player…..Chicago’s game took a major step backwards last year, when most thought they would be much better….They obviously feel the need to make some player changes……..For us; giving up Pryz would be less attractive than Outlaw…We were so much better defensively when he was in the game…..a perfect complimentary backup to our team…just don’t see them giving him up.
The Chicago poster feels like most Bull’s fans do…..make some moves now….. and the players they want to give up are Hinrich and Gordon
by 67 on Aug 27, 2008 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
to those who think there must be something wrong with Hinrich because he's in trade talks
it may have something to do with using the #1 overall pick on a point guard.
He’s starter quality, at his best he was a top-10 point. On this team he’s Derrick Rose’s backup, and a too-expensive one.
management sez: recommend fanposts/fanshots/comments! Click 'reply' when replying to a comment! Flag jerkfaces!
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 27, 2008 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rose is his backup, actually.
Unless you’re gunning for the number one overall pick again. Rose will struggle this year. I like the kid, and he basically doesn’t have a ceiling, but he’s not ready to be a starting NBA PG.
Bayless isn't the second coming of Jordan.
Jordan was the first coming of Bayless.
by KP Corleone on Aug 27, 2008 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
interesting, given your public feelings regarding Bayless
regardless of performance, they’d be silly to sit the #1 overall pick. Maybe the Bulls will get lucky and Rose will get a career-threatening knee surgery before he even suits up, that’d really ease the learning curve.
management sez: recommend fanposts/fanshots/comments! Click 'reply' when replying to a comment! Flag jerkfaces!
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 27, 2008 4:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love how you deleted all the blazer fan's comments off your blog
and continue to troll here.
"Thank God those nightmarish booty-less days are behind us. I blame cocaine."-Mortimer
I detest that man who hides one thing in the depths of his heart, and speaks for another. - Homer
That was a very hard winter,
and it was just like one long night,
with me lying awake, waiting and waiting and waiting
for daybreak.
- Black Elk
1881
The wild hawk stood with the down on his beak And stared with his foot on the prey. - Lord Alfred Tennyson
by BlazerFan1 on Aug 27, 2008 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mhm, not completely
E.g. Morti-murr, hobobob, yours troll truly and a few comments by twiggs are still there. But you two seem to have pushed the “wrong” buttons with the one back and forth exchange ;-)
Who knew that’s what gets you deleted on SBNation? Why can’t we be friends, why can’t we be friends, …
This might get a little nasty if Chicago would really trade Gordon or Hinrich for pennies on the dollar to us – or the other way around. We might need a peace summit with Dave and Matt, with Mortimer as the honest broker or something. That would be funny. Pooh, the off-season gets long in the tooth.
Odenied: Asked whether he noticed Oden favoring his right knee, Frye dismissed it entirely. "He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors."
by Norsktroll on Aug 27, 2008 5:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
well between me and you we know what was said
it degraded into just lame trash-talk, that’s why I eventually deleted it. There isn’t much news, so the actual trade discussion is somewhat interesting and now whoever jumps in doesn’t have to sift through so much crap (mine included).
management sez: recommend fanposts/fanshots/comments! Click 'reply' when replying to a comment! Flag jerkfaces!
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 27, 2008 5:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
+1+1+1+1
Ha! I can say it here. Yeah, I was logged off for hours and noticed they deleted our comments. What a bunch of lame people. I got called a “rocket scientist” over there as well. Such class. Man I seriously hope we smash them this year.
"I eat polar bears and babies"
~Sophia 08/25/08
by twiggs on Aug 27, 2008 9:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Geez, my sarcasm REALLY comes off way too heavy
I of course hope we DO beat Chi, but they aren’t lame or classless. That was just a zinger to get back to them for calling me a weirdo, a rocket scientist and a dork all in one post.
"I eat polar bears and babies"
~Sophia 08/25/08
by twiggs on Aug 27, 2008 9:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stats on a bad team?
Your argument does not negate the fact that a majority of Bulls fans want him off the team, and not just because of his contract and/or talent level…
Last year, the Bulls lacked heart and leadership, which is a direct reflection on their point guard, in at least the rough estimation of how I define the position… Steve Blake may not be as talented as Kirk Hinrich, but he’s willing to punch Nene and that’s more than we’d ever get from “Captain” Kirk…
"Now, you take a bobcat or a Jayhawk. You know they'll run if you give 'em the chance. But when one don't run, why, you shoot him and shoot him quick. Raef's my dog, Pa. I've gotta do what's right..." Old Yeller (1957)
by RoyGoesTheDynamite on Aug 27, 2008 5:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, the Blazers are not trying to contend now.
We have three rookies on the team, all expected to make contributions, and one of them is our most plausible ticket to the finals. The Blazers hope to make the playoffs this year, but the finals are a few years off assuming all goes well in the meantime.
Aren’t the Bulls hoping to use Hinrich as a two guard? Why would they want to trade him? Rose only had one year of college – do they really expect him to contribute full time and make Hinrich unneeded?
by bbfred on Aug 27, 2008 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Forget any of these "Rumored Trade Talks" until at least the February trade deadline...onless itbecause...
Right now KP would only trade for a “gift” or a lock down 3…..period!
Here are my reasons….
1. Nate will have plenty of offense on the floor at all times. Almost too much ( if possible ).
2. Nate will always be capable of playing a very good defensive player at any position, except at the 3
3. Roy has made it clear that HE doesn’t want a superstar 1 added to the team, as it harms his creativity
4. KP will need until the February trade deadline to perform a fair evaluation of the quality of the team and players, and that’s probably too early.
5. REC will still be available next summer.
So for now..I say forget any rumored trade talks, unless it’s a "gift" or a lock down 3.
KP is NOT a person in a hurry to make mistakes plus he’s definitey put himself in the catbird seat :).
by royrudy2 on Aug 27, 2008 3:16 AM PDT reply actions 2 recs
agree
The Blazers question is at the 3 …and I’m sure they would like to start the season and see what develops at the 3 and also point guard…..i would think that this rumor( if it has merit) may have more to it than meets the eye….In other words, some side deals involving other teams and players……But this trade makes no sense at all, as it stands….
by 67 on Aug 27, 2008 10:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Crazy talk
Back around draft night there were scores of interviews with other GMs about how KP is by far the most active GM in the league, and his style is to call up with the most ridiculous proposals.
What do KP’s crazy offers do? He knows going into the conversation the other party will refuse, but also they will come back with an offer that makes more sense to them. That is, it lets him discover the current value of our assets while getting a better idea of who the other team might really be willing to part with.
Outlaw is one of our most plausible assets to put on the block (in terms of being desired by other teams and viewed as someone we might actually part with), so his name is bound to come up as during any of KP’s fishing trips to sniff out better intelligence. Outlaw plays the same position as Deng and Nocioni, and adding him will just clog Chicago’s SF position. You know going in its not gonna happen, because it adds to instead of filling any of the Bulls’ needs, but this ploy is a nice way to provide a context in which the two parties can exchange other useful information.
This is exactly like the rumored Outlaw-for-Conley swap the other day. The Grizzlies see Conley as the key to the future; there is no way they will trade him for someone who cannot be as key, so he is the guy KP can safely target to initiate a conversation. If Memphis wants to give us a gift; fine; deal done. But you don’t expect they will, so the point of the conversation is to open a communications channel to exchange other information.
You can see right through these rumors; the conversation isn’t about trading Outlaw for X but rather about whether there really are any interesting trading opportunities that will help both teams. I don’t know why everyone is excited. If it were anything more, the story would have never appeared in the press. In KP we trust.
by jaywalker on Aug 27, 2008 5:34 AM PDT reply actions 3 recs
One word:
Ridiculous!
"I eat polar bears and babies"
~Sophia 08/25/08
by twiggs on Aug 27, 2008 7:18 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Ridiculoso
:)
"Thank God those nightmarish booty-less days are behind us. I blame cocaine."-Mortimer
I detest that man who hides one thing in the depths of his heart, and speaks for another. - Homer
That was a very hard winter,
and it was just like one long night,
with me lying awake, waiting and waiting and waiting
for daybreak.
- Black Elk
1881
by BlazerFan1 on Aug 27, 2008 10:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
most preposterous
"It's how you play the Ga-ame..." - Greg Oden with Justin Timeberlake at the Espy's
by BlazermaniacAndy on Aug 27, 2008 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ridículo
;)
Blazers Fans are my boys, Celtic my bhoys.
by Nakamura on Aug 27, 2008 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Redorkulous!
Inventing new words is fun!
LMA>LA!
LMA's reign as "LaMonster of the Low Post" has just begun!
by LaMarvelous on Aug 31, 2008 10:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Redikerus
I used to be indecisive, but now I'm not so sure.
by JAB21 on Aug 27, 2008 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Shenanigans!
OK, so it doesn’t rhyme
"I eat polar bears and babies"
~Sophia 08/25/08
by twiggs on Aug 27, 2008 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
get your broom
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
by hobobob on Aug 27, 2008 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not a big Outlaw fan
but these trades make no sense at all.
If we’re thading #25, it will be for a SF.
by Falcao on Aug 27, 2008 7:28 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't believe the rumor
There are always tons of rumors coming out of Chicago. There are rarely true.
by PoliSam on Aug 27, 2008 7:45 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Start preparing yourselves emotionally...
These rumors are being thrown around too often for there to be no validity to them. When multiple beat writers from multiple teams are getting word that the Blazers are trying to ship Trout for a PG, it may well be true. I’m a little baffled by all the talk, as well – I’m perfectly happy w/ Blake/Bayless going into the season – but sooner or later KP is going to make a move that isn’t such a slam dunk on paper.
I’ve noticed all summer, by the way, that whenever any of the Blazer coaches were asked about the SF position, they all sung Trout’s praises. That may be an indication that they’re trying to pump up his value.
The Blazers needed Trout last year. His bench scoring was worth the corresponding stink bomb he brought to the table on D (opposing players PER over 19, among the worst in the league). But this year, with Rudy/Bayless in the mix, perhaps they’re not willing to put up with his defensive problems to get his scoring. And if they’re not, you can be sure they’d like to move him this summer while he still has value, rather than letting him play limited minutes, score far less ppg, and lost that value.
Bayless isn't the second coming of Jordan.
Jordan was the first coming of Bayless.
by KP Corleone on Aug 27, 2008 7:51 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
That makes sense as a reason to trade Outlaw
but I’m still baffled why he’d go after a point guard, unless it was a slam dunk, no brainer upgrade.
by raoulduke on Aug 27, 2008 9:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that 82games.com needs to fix their PER numbers.
On the main Trailblazers page, Outlaw reportedly only gives up a 17.6 PER with Frye and Przybilla(!!)being the lousy defenders. Even on the main page, the average PER among all teams seems to be roughly 17 rather than 15.
I think Outlaw’s defense is actually not as bad as it may appear sometimes. I think it’s below average because of defensive rebounding and a complete lack of ability to defend the post, but normally he contests shots fairly well.
by poster on Aug 27, 2008 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why are all the rumors w/ Chicago?
I highly doubt this trade will happen.
Sophia
"Thank God those nightmarish booty-less days are behind us. I blame cocaine."-Mortimer
I detest that man who hides one thing in the depths of his heart, and speaks for another. - Homer
That was a very hard winter,
and it was just like one long night,
with me lying awake, waiting and waiting and waiting
for daybreak.
- Black Elk
1881
by BlazerFan1 on Aug 27, 2008 8:41 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
The only way this trade happens is if KP has a servere head trama
knock on wood.
by Blazersaurus on Aug 27, 2008 8:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cause Chicago seems very unsettled?
They are nice to speculate about for writers right now, and their ownership and new coach are hard to figure out. Doubtful that they will go into next season as the roster currently stands, with Gordon still in heavy negotiations, one guard too many (yet that’s not really Gordon), and lacking another true center.
Odenied: Asked whether he noticed Oden favoring his right knee, Frye dismissed it entirely. "He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors."
by Norsktroll on Aug 27, 2008 9:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Becuase Sam Smith is a hack
And he writes ANYTHING he can think of. He is like Chicago’s Peter Vecsey
"Why would we lie to ourselves dude?"
"Be excellent to each other."
"All we are is dust in the wind, dude."
"Strange things are afoot at the Circle K."
The Wisdom of Bill S Preston Esquire and Ted Theodore Logan
by GreatOden'sRaven on Aug 27, 2008 10:04 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
HAHA +1
"Thank God those nightmarish booty-less days are behind us. I blame cocaine."-Mortimer
I detest that man who hides one thing in the depths of his heart, and speaks for another. - Homer
That was a very hard winter,
and it was just like one long night,
with me lying awake, waiting and waiting and waiting
for daybreak.
- Black Elk
1881
by BlazerFan1 on Aug 27, 2008 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because the fans are jealous of the future of the team :)
"I eat polar bears and babies"
~Sophia 08/25/08
by twiggs on Aug 27, 2008 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Me too.
I don’t think so either. Hey is that your real pic Sophia?
by CanadianBlazerfan on Aug 27, 2008 4:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes...
"Thank God those nightmarish booty-less days are behind us. I blame cocaine."-Mortimer
I detest that man who hides one thing in the depths of his heart, and speaks for another. - Homer
That was a very hard winter,
and it was just like one long night,
with me lying awake, waiting and waiting and waiting
for daybreak.
- Black Elk
1881
The wild hawk stood with the down on his beak And stared with his foot on the prey. - Lord Alfred Tennyson
by BlazerFan1 on Aug 27, 2008 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very nice pic.
Very nice pic Sophia. You are a very beautiful lady.
by CanadianBlazerfan on Aug 27, 2008 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
why thank you sir
:)
"Thank God those nightmarish booty-less days are behind us. I blame cocaine."-Mortimer
I detest that man who hides one thing in the depths of his heart, and speaks for another. - Homer
That was a very hard winter,
and it was just like one long night,
with me lying awake, waiting and waiting and waiting
for daybreak.
- Black Elk
1881
The wild hawk stood with the down on his beak And stared with his foot on the prey. - Lord Alfred Tennyson
by BlazerFan1 on Aug 27, 2008 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Uh oh..
Nicolas might be watching.. better remind him that you are <3 him all the time..
haha
"Why would we lie to ourselves dude?"
"Be excellent to each other."
"All we are is dust in the wind, dude."
"Strange things are afoot at the Circle K."
The Wisdom of Bill S Preston Esquire and Ted Theodore Logan
by GreatOden'sRaven on Aug 27, 2008 4:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No problem. Visited the website on your profile too. Lucky lady, that you got your pic taken with Travis. A good pic, among many on there.
by CanadianBlazerfan on Aug 28, 2008 6:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What are these guys smoking?
Let’s see, the proposal is that we add a sixth guard to the five we already have, while getting rid of one of our two SF’s, and not replacing him, as well as one of our two Centers, and not replacing him as well. And, of course, the SF we’re getting rid of is the only other guy we have who could play some PF, if the idea that Frye would back Oden is accepted – but we won’t have him. So, this idea would shift Frye to Center, leave Aldridge as the only meaningful option at PF (with only Diogu – unproven and often injured to back him up), and give us only one SF with no one to back that player up as well.
And then, this proposal would leave us with a complete jam at the guard spot, and not remotely enough playing time for Blake, Fernandez and Bayless, assuming you start Hinrich. Which would no doubt make Fernandez and Bayless happy, let alone what it would do to Blake. After all, if you assume Roy and Hinrich (the assumed starter) would chew up 60 minutes, that leaves 12 minutes for those 3 remaining players.
What in the world are these guys smoking?
by Eben Calder on Aug 27, 2008 9:02 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Mariah, very good Jamaican mariah
Blazers Fans are my boys, Celtic my bhoys.
by Nakamura on Aug 27, 2008 9:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
NGH
Not Gonna Happen. Ever.
I know fans always overvalue their own players, but this is straight junk.
Does anyone who actually watches basketball, specifically the NBA, specifically the Blazers and the Bulls, think this would be a good trade?
"When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car"
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Aug 27, 2008 9:57 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Hinrich stinks
He’s a fantastic college player who’s had a mediocre and fruitless pro career. Analysts have overstated him once or twice with the bulls but who haven’t they done that to.
by 0004248939 on Aug 27, 2008 10:27 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Are you kidding?
Mediocre and fruitless? Admittedly he had a down year last year, but who didn’t on that team? The year before he posted 16.6 ppg with 6.3 apg, while shooting .448% from the field, .415 from 3, and .835 from the line while being named all 2nd team defensive. There are a lot of reasons why this deal might not make sense, but calling his pro career mediocre and fruitless is silly. When he originally signed that $10m a year deal all the pundits thought it was fair.
by Dave R on Aug 27, 2008 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hinrich stinks
“Pundits” thought Nene’s 6 for $60m was fair, and that Arenas should have been traded for Cassell last spring, and that Lebron James is similar to MICHAEL JORDAN, I mean honestly, JORDAN! Your arguments have no merit. Bulls are going nowhere like Wolves and Bucks.
by 0004248939 on Aug 27, 2008 11:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pip, is that you?
Odenied: Asked whether he noticed Oden favoring his right knee, Frye dismissed it entirely. "He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors."
by Norsktroll on Aug 27, 2008 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Way too civil for Pip
He would have insulted some of us instead of just Hinrich
by Dave R on Aug 27, 2008 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
you joking?
See the website you tagged, RUMORpress!?! Please, let’s keep these rumors to ourselves, this will never happen, you have no idea what KP is thinking, until it’s already done. Speculating does nothing but waste time. Which, come to think of it, is why we’re here, so, continue!
"It's how you play the Ga-ame..." - Greg Oden with Justin Timeberlake at the Espy's
by BlazermaniacAndy on Aug 27, 2008 10:51 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Yes, it's keeping me entertained for now!
"I eat polar bears and babies"
~Sophia 08/25/08
by twiggs on Aug 27, 2008 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Blog-a-bull
Seems to like the idea (suprised?) of a trade. And, they are calling us weirdos. Meanies.
"I eat polar bears and babies"
~Sophia 08/25/08
by twiggs on Aug 27, 2008 11:20 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
No, just no
Conley is one thing, he’s young and can come off the bench for a while. Kirk will demand time RIGHT NOW, and Blake is better for the team RIGHT NOW.
And Outlaw is worth more than Kirk all by his lonesome. Add in Joel, that’s a joke. There’s no way KP will make this kind of move without seeing at least some of how the season shakes out first.
Maybe they’re trying to ditch Tyrus Thomas on us in that trade as well? KP might (MIGHT) be intrigued by Kirk and Tyrus for Outlaw and Joel, but unless Tyrus has had a transplant to make him a SF, this isn’t good for us either. Outlaw is better than Tyrus as well.
The SF position gets ugly if this trade happens- the only true SF on the roster is Batman. That’s not going to cut it. Even with Rudy at 3, and the team in a zone (match-up or otherwise), we lose a lot of flexibility in our bench frontcourt. As it is, Channing will be playing minutes at C when Joel and Oden get their inevitable foul trouble. Take Joel out, and we have a very small frontcourt.
No way this happens, unless KP has another trade in the works (and sure to happen) that corrects the imbalance.
"I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ." -Gandhi
"Throw Thag, throw. Throw throw throw throw throw throw"- Far Side
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Aug 27, 2008 11:21 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Funny comments over at blog-a-bull
http://www.blogabull.com/2008/8/26/601925/blazers-offer-outlaw-and-p
"The next day in practice, if you sweat, it's going to come out of your pores, regardless. If you ask any coach around the league how many times they have smelled liquor on a player . . . As long as that player is showing up on time, doing the drills and running, that's part of it. But there have been times, yeah. Yeah, you probably smelled liquor on me. But it's not like I'm at practice drunk. I'm totally focused."
-Darius Miles
by Steve Guttenberg on Aug 27, 2008 11:24 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I just posted this too! Calling us weirdos :)
"I eat polar bears and babies"
~Sophia 08/25/08
by twiggs on Aug 27, 2008 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
seems like both teams fans are smoking a lot of crack! I guess west coast has an endless supply of drugs from what they say.
"The next day in practice, if you sweat, it's going to come out of your pores, regardless. If you ask any coach around the league how many times they have smelled liquor on a player . . . As long as that player is showing up on time, doing the drills and running, that's part of it. But there have been times, yeah. Yeah, you probably smelled liquor on me. But it's not like I'm at practice drunk. I'm totally focused."
-Darius Miles
by Steve Guttenberg on Aug 27, 2008 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, and we don't like sports either.
I’m having fun over there commenting.
"I eat polar bears and babies"
~Sophia 08/25/08
by twiggs on Aug 27, 2008 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd comment
but I don’t want to join their clan.
"The next day in practice, if you sweat, it's going to come out of your pores, regardless. If you ask any coach around the league how many times they have smelled liquor on a player . . . As long as that player is showing up on time, doing the drills and running, that's part of it. But there have been times, yeah. Yeah, you probably smelled liquor on me. But it's not like I'm at practice drunk. I'm totally focused."
-Darius Miles
by Steve Guttenberg on Aug 27, 2008 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's fun to browse because they dislike us so much
"I eat polar bears and babies"
~Sophia 08/25/08
by twiggs on Aug 27, 2008 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hillarious!
lol on their comments. It’s funny how they build up Hinrich on our site but the majority of people on their site seem to agree with the trade and dislike hinrich and what he brings to the team.
"The next day in practice, if you sweat, it's going to come out of your pores, regardless. If you ask any coach around the league how many times they have smelled liquor on a player . . . As long as that player is showing up on time, doing the drills and running, that's part of it. But there have been times, yeah. Yeah, you probably smelled liquor on me. But it's not like I'm at practice drunk. I'm totally focused."
-Darius Miles
by Steve Guttenberg on Aug 27, 2008 11:41 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I know, huh?
Whoever runs that blog is a jerk. We are really lucky to have Dave (and Ben).
"I eat polar bears and babies"
~Sophia 08/25/08
by twiggs on Aug 27, 2008 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm usually pretty quiet
But I gotta jump in here. I lurk there a lot (grew up in the midwest and have followed the Bulls since I was a kid) and I have a lot of respect for the guy who runs that site. He’s smart and funny and has a pretty good hand when it comes to moderating. Granted, he likes to tweak and bait the Bedgers, but a lot of the time we deserve it.
by Corvid on Aug 27, 2008 10:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does Matt still run BlogaBull?
And if so, when did he become such a jerk? I remember him as a pretty nice guy, but if he’s the “friendly neighborhood bulls blogger” he’s turned a new leaf, for the worse.
by Lance Uppercut on Aug 27, 2008 12:37 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
well in one post,
He’s called me a “blazerdork” and all of us Bedger’s “weirdos”. That’s not something I can see Dave saying.
"I eat polar bears and babies"
~Sophia 08/25/08
by twiggs on Aug 27, 2008 12:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I noticed
which is why I’m curious whether Matt is still running that site. Maybe being a Bulls fan over the last year pushed him over the edge.
by Lance Uppercut on Aug 27, 2008 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
pretty hurtful words, I know
crimeny. Since when do I have to have patience for other team’s cheerleaders on my site? Let us still believe Tyrus is awesome and lob tame insults in your direction.
management sez: recommend fanposts/fanshots/comments! Click 'reply' when replying to a comment! Flag jerkfaces!
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 27, 2008 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
It's not neccesarily what you said
But that you, blog runner, said anything. It doesn’t make people on your site want to have thoughtful, trade talk. And, we don’t call your blog fans weirdos. It’s kinda rude.
"I eat polar bears and babies"
~Sophia 08/25/08
by twiggs on Aug 27, 2008 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whoops
One too many C’s and one less S. Sorry.
"I eat polar bears and babies"
~Sophia 08/25/08
by twiggs on Aug 27, 2008 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol those un knowledgable blazer fans...
lol
"Thank God those nightmarish booty-less days are behind us. I blame cocaine."-Mortimer
I detest that man who hides one thing in the depths of his heart, and speaks for another. - Homer
That was a very hard winter,
and it was just like one long night,
with me lying awake, waiting and waiting and waiting
for daybreak.
- Black Elk
1881
by BlazerFan1 on Aug 27, 2008 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know, huh?
"I eat polar bears and babies"
~Sophia 08/25/08
by twiggs on Aug 27, 2008 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
you can, many of them are weirdos.
It’s a long-standing theme that we just have a general annoyance with Blazer nation. Mostly Sean Meagher’s fault. But nothing too sinister…
management sez: recommend fanposts/fanshots/comments! Click 'reply' when replying to a comment! Flag jerkfaces!
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 27, 2008 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is very very classless.
Im saddened that you have chosen to take a debate on the trade to the level of flaunting the tragic and untimely death of a wonderful human being and class act.
Sophia
"Thank God those nightmarish booty-less days are behind us. I blame cocaine."-Mortimer
I detest that man who hides one thing in the depths of his heart, and speaks for another. - Homer
That was a very hard winter,
and it was just like one long night,
with me lying awake, waiting and waiting and waiting
for daybreak.
- Black Elk
1881
by BlazerFan1 on Aug 27, 2008 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think that was the intention
Just a link to Sean Meagher’s blog
Odenied: Asked whether he noticed Oden favoring his right knee, Frye dismissed it entirely. "He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors."
by Norsktroll on Aug 27, 2008 1:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well Meager's blog TODAY has the Blake story on top
im just saying…
"Thank God those nightmarish booty-less days are behind us. I blame cocaine."-Mortimer
I detest that man who hides one thing in the depths of his heart, and speaks for another. - Homer
That was a very hard winter,
and it was just like one long night,
with me lying awake, waiting and waiting and waiting
for daybreak.
- Black Elk
1881
by BlazerFan1 on Aug 27, 2008 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Norsktroll is correct
it’s just a link to his blog.
management sez: recommend fanposts/fanshots/comments! Click 'reply' when replying to a comment! Flag jerkfaces!
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 27, 2008 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because none of use know how to get there?
"Thank God those nightmarish booty-less days are behind us. I blame cocaine."-Mortimer
I detest that man who hides one thing in the depths of his heart, and speaks for another. - Homer
That was a very hard winter,
and it was just like one long night,
with me lying awake, waiting and waiting and waiting
for daybreak.
- Black Elk
1881
by BlazerFan1 on Aug 27, 2008 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
good point
he is probably a common figure here. So I’m sorry for including a meaningless link. Add that to your succinct signature.
management sez: recommend fanposts/fanshots/comments! Click 'reply' when replying to a comment! Flag jerkfaces!
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 27, 2008 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was just thinking about adding a Lord Tennyson quote...
"Thank God those nightmarish booty-less days are behind us. I blame cocaine."-Mortimer
I detest that man who hides one thing in the depths of his heart, and speaks for another. - Homer
That was a very hard winter,
and it was just like one long night,
with me lying awake, waiting and waiting and waiting
for daybreak.
- Black Elk
1881
by BlazerFan1 on Aug 27, 2008 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
there you go , now guess who is the prey...
MUUUAAAHHHHAAAAHHHAAAAA
Sophia
"Thank God those nightmarish booty-less days are behind us. I blame cocaine."-Mortimer
I detest that man who hides one thing in the depths of his heart, and speaks for another. - Homer
That was a very hard winter,
and it was just like one long night,
with me lying awake, waiting and waiting and waiting
for daybreak.
- Black Elk
1881
The wild hawk stood with the down on his beak And stared with his foot on the prey. - Lord Alfred Tennyson
by BlazerFan1 on Aug 27, 2008 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
NICE!
The MWAHAHAHAH!
Well done, grasshopper.
"When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car"
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Aug 27, 2008 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I learn from the Best Master...
:)
"Thank God those nightmarish booty-less days are behind us. I blame cocaine."-Mortimer
I detest that man who hides one thing in the depths of his heart, and speaks for another. - Homer
That was a very hard winter,
and it was just like one long night,
with me lying awake, waiting and waiting and waiting
for daybreak.
- Black Elk
1881
The wild hawk stood with the down on his beak And stared with his foot on the prey. - Lord Alfred Tennyson
by BlazerFan1 on Aug 27, 2008 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why DO ya guys dislike Meagher?
Even as a Blazer fan who reads his blog everyday, I couldn’t pick his “voice” out of a lineup like I could with, say, Dave or Casey Holdahl (he used to run the Oregonlive Blazers blog). I’ve seen Meagher used in punchlines at Blog a bull before, and I was like “huuuhh?”
No offense to Meagher of course, and the Oregonlive blog is a place we all check daily, but not necessarily for the Meaghster (yet). I could understand hating an annoying homer but he’s just, you know, running the place like a fan would since it’s just a fan run site and all.
I mighta’ missed some trash talking posts by him.
I would imagine, to non-Blazer fans, that the Mikes (our TV announcing crew of Mike Barrett and Mike Rice) would be the focus of homer-based hate.
Since I’m not asking anything important and I doubt this’ll be read, I got one more question: Mariotti’s resignation (thank God) got me thinking… who are the GOOD beat writers or columnists for Chicago papers? Dealing with 1 Mariotti is enough to drive me to drink if he covered my team, and you guys got like 20 big papers in Chicago. Is it like all the NY papers where all of the writers suck in their own unique way?
Mortimer
by Mortimer on Aug 28, 2008 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's the Oregonian's blog, right?
He’s an annoying homer who doesn’t even work for the team. Every trade proposal that he reads is insulting to the Blazers, and every current Blazer is great and will only be more awesome. We kind of gave up getting specific examples and now just label him :)
Chicago media report: There’s only 2 big papers. 3 beat writers covering the team, only one (Mike McGraw of the Daily Herald…which isn’t major as it is a suburban paper) is exceptional. The others are competent but have some biases creep in…which isn’t that much to complain about.
Columnist-wise, the famous Sam Smith (who had his quirks but I generally loved) left the Tribune, so John Jackson of the Sun-Times is the only ‘NBA’ columnist, and is a joke. The others who’d cover the team are just general columnists…and they all pretty much blow when it comes to the NBA and the Bulls. Rick Morrisey, Mike Downey, Greg Couch, Rick Telander, Carol Slezak, Barry Rozner, Steve Rosenbloom…all different degrees of bad. Mariotti was a special brand of awful because he was aggressively awful, and his Bulls opinions only consisted of licking Michael Jordan and carrying out his personal vendetta against Bulls (and Sox) owner Jerry Reinsdorf.
It’s a different dynamic in general. In Portland the Blazers are the one and only. In Chicago the heirarchy goes: Bears, Bears, Bears, Cubs, White Sox, Bulls.
management sez: recommend fanposts/fanshots/comments! Click 'reply' when replying to a comment! Flag jerkfaces! Be a 'Nazi' when it comes to thread duplication!
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 28, 2008 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
GO SOX!!!!!
Witty Unpredictable Talent and Natural Game
by iDea on Aug 28, 2008 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, that is totally wrong dude
"I eat polar bears and babies"
~Sophia 08/25/08
by twiggs on Aug 27, 2008 1:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's a side conversation
within the thread. When BE peeps come over and actually talk we usually talk back, not call them names. The names are usually out there already.
management sez: recommend fanposts/fanshots/comments! Click 'reply' when replying to a comment! Flag jerkfaces!
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 27, 2008 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There was some "actual talking" going on
And some posters saying some pretty rude things for no reason. Whatever. I’m bored with this now. Chi-Town has different ways of approaching things I suppose. Weirdos.
(hee hee about the weirdos part)
"I eat polar bears and babies"
~Sophia 08/25/08
by twiggs on Aug 27, 2008 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
can't believe I recced it, but yep, that's kind of what being a fan is all about
I think we get a little too carried away with civility here. It’s nice and encourages conversation, but once in a while, it’s cool to vent a little with some tame insults. The bulls suck. That felt good.
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
by hobobob on Aug 28, 2008 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Matt
And the general tone of Blog a Bull has gone down since their bad year last season. I know, it didn’t used to be that way, right?
I’m pretty sure Matt still runs it and posts as “Friendly Bulls Blogger”. It’s a combative, snippy, unhappy place now.
I still go there and post, but I’m glad it’s not just me who has noticed the tenor change so drastically.
Mortimer
by Mortimer on Aug 27, 2008 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
VERY combative
Geez, I got snipped at for +1 a comment. Seriously bad behavior. It should be friendly banter amongst us, not outright rude.
"I eat polar bears and babies"
~Sophia 08/25/08
by twiggs on Aug 27, 2008 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's annoying.
and I try to nip such things in the bud. Going to this thread and seeing a bunch of pointless comments just saying ‘+1’, ‘agree’, ‘you are the rulezz’ doesn’t do much to make me want to accept it as general practice.
management sez: recommend fanposts/fanshots/comments! Click 'reply' when replying to a comment! Flag jerkfaces!
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 27, 2008 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok so where do you see that?
"Thank God those nightmarish booty-less days are behind us. I blame cocaine."-Mortimer
I detest that man who hides one thing in the depths of his heart, and speaks for another. - Homer
That was a very hard winter,
and it was just like one long night,
with me lying awake, waiting and waiting and waiting
for daybreak.
- Black Elk
1881
by BlazerFan1 on Aug 27, 2008 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bizarre
Your signature says to recommend comments, but you don’t want someone doing +1? It’s just another way of recommending. Not that I do it, but that’s what it is. How is it different?
Other people don't have as much practice at being wrong as I do -- HT, timbo
by jscot on Aug 27, 2008 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe I should join
Blog-a-Bull just to post +1 and -1 comments. Seems like they should lighten up a little and enjoy the multiple points of view instead of bashing peoples opinion.
"The next day in practice, if you sweat, it's going to come out of your pores, regardless. If you ask any coach around the league how many times they have smelled liquor on a player . . . As long as that player is showing up on time, doing the drills and running, that's part of it. But there have been times, yeah. Yeah, you probably smelled liquor on me. But it's not like I'm at practice drunk. I'm totally focused."
-Darius Miles
by Steve Guttenberg on Aug 27, 2008 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
you goofs
we are combative and angry all the time, with eachother, because our team is a nightmare. The fact that we can come together and jerk around Blazer fans is actually the non-combative fun part.
management sez: recommend fanposts/fanshots/comments! Click 'reply' when replying to a comment! Flag jerkfaces!
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Aug 27, 2008 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't you have some hope for the future?
Your team doesn’t have to be a nightmare. They might actually do pretty well this year.
Other people don't have as much practice at being wrong as I do -- HT, timbo
by jscot on Aug 27, 2008 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I haven't read that blog for that long (lurking)
But the Bulls were my favorite team in the East in the 90s, and still are I guess. I usually found the topics for discussion on Blog-a-Bull really interesting, yet a higher number of the remarks (also his own as the moderator) are pretty snide compared to this place where everybody tries to watch his / her language and usually builds on each other’s input thanks to the conversation rules. I don’t think it’s unfriendly or aggressive over there and might fit into the Chicago style*, but I never lived there long enough to really tell.
- When Jay Mariotti is one of the most prominent guys covering your franchise (see my junk drawer post about his resignation), you kinda know what to expect ;-)
Odenied: Asked whether he noticed Oden favoring his right knee, Frye dismissed it entirely. "He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors."
by Norsktroll on Aug 27, 2008 1:17 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
HAHA +1 re Mariotti
"Thank God those nightmarish booty-less days are behind us. I blame cocaine."-Mortimer
I detest that man who hides one thing in the depths of his heart, and speaks for another. - Homer
That was a very hard winter,
and it was just like one long night,
with me lying awake, waiting and waiting and waiting
for daybreak.
- Black Elk
1881
by BlazerFan1 on Aug 27, 2008 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I kinda figured that too
But still. It makes ME feel like I have to be combative.
"I eat polar bears and babies"
~Sophia 08/25/08
by twiggs on Aug 27, 2008 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dearest
that is because you ARE combative and there is nothing wrong with that. We still love you
Sophia
"Thank God those nightmarish booty-less days are behind us. I blame cocaine."-Mortimer
I detest that man who hides one thing in the depths of his heart, and speaks for another. - Homer
That was a very hard winter,
and it was just like one long night,
with me lying awake, waiting and waiting and waiting
for daybreak.
- Black Elk
1881
by BlazerFan1 on Aug 27, 2008 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know, I know...
I love you guys too. This has at least made my boring day fly by.
"I eat polar bears and babies"
~Sophia 08/25/08
by twiggs on Aug 27, 2008 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It might be too late
But I SHOULD clarify.
The tone is down and combative and snippy, but there are lots of smart people over there who write good stuff.
It’s just the depressed ying to our heroin-high yang.
Mortimer
by Mortimer on Aug 27, 2008 5:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Once again I gotta chip in
I lurk at B-a-B a lot and post there every blue moon, and yeah, the tone has changed over the last several months. At first, I thought getting the #1 pick would change things, but it didn’t, much. I’ve come to the conclusion that the site’s increased popularity has a great deal to do with its change in tenor. I see the same things happening as Blazer’s Edge has grown — as a whole, we’re a lot more snide and snippy and rude than we used to be. It’s more work than it used to be to sort through and read the good stuff. On both sites.
by Corvid on Aug 27, 2008 10:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey TOMINHAWAII
remember when I got mad at you and said “i propose a trade of TominHawaii for yourfriendlybullsblogger” I officially take that back. I <3 u…
Sophia
"Thank God those nightmarish booty-less days are behind us. I blame cocaine."-Mortimer
I detest that man who hides one thing in the depths of his heart, and speaks for another. - Homer
That was a very hard winter,
and it was just like one long night,
with me lying awake, waiting and waiting and waiting
for daybreak.
- Black Elk
1881
by BlazerFan1 on Aug 27, 2008 1:14 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I disagree
That’s the best proposed trade with Chicago that I’ve seen on this thread.
Other people don't have as much practice at being wrong as I do -- HT, timbo
by jscot on Aug 27, 2008 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
HAHA
"Thank God those nightmarish booty-less days are behind us. I blame cocaine."-Mortimer
I detest that man who hides one thing in the depths of his heart, and speaks for another. - Homer
That was a very hard winter,
and it was just like one long night,
with me lying awake, waiting and waiting and waiting
for daybreak.
- Black Elk
1881
by BlazerFan1 on Aug 27, 2008 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
When jscot rules the world
I plan to lead the rebel resistance.
by tominhawaii on Aug 27, 2008 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
OK CHE
:0
"Thank God those nightmarish booty-less days are behind us. I blame cocaine."-Mortimer
I detest that man who hides one thing in the depths of his heart, and speaks for another. - Homer
That was a very hard winter,
and it was just like one long night,
with me lying awake, waiting and waiting and waiting
for daybreak.
- Black Elk
1881
The wild hawk stood with the down on his beak And stared with his foot on the prey. - Lord Alfred Tennyson
by BlazerFan1 on Aug 27, 2008 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's great
Timbo is planning the same. The resistance is already fractured, and I don’t even rule the world yet.
Divide and conquer once again.
Other people don't have as much practice at being wrong as I do -- HT, timbo
by jscot on Aug 27, 2008 9:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh
He can lead then. I’ll start a pirate radio station.
The first day I ever met him he said: "Hi, I'm Ritchie White. I'm on probation."
by tominhawaii on Aug 29, 2008 5:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Radio
is so yesterday.
One of my fan posts got 50 signatures. And you thought I was egotistical before. But nobody can do Ego like I can.
by jscot on Aug 29, 2008 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So's your face!
Oooooo, I burned you good!
The first day I ever met him he said: "Hi, I'm Ritchie White. I'm on probation."
by tominhawaii on Aug 29, 2008 7:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wrong
My face is so last year.
No, last decade.
Oh, forget it. Last millenium. :P
One of my fan posts got 50 signatures. And you thought I was egotistical before. But nobody can do Ego like I can.
by jscot on Aug 30, 2008 2:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I came to work today and they had boxes and boxes of pizza here.
I like pizza.
The first day I ever met him he said: "Hi, I'm Ritchie White. I'm on probation."
by tominhawaii on Aug 30, 2008 2:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
HORRIBLE trade!
No way we would do that! one we need to get rid of a pg to add one and two hinrich is not worth giving up blake, outlaw, pryzbilla, or almost anybody else on our team for that matter!
by Trail Ducker on Aug 27, 2008 3:22 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
As long as we are talking about Outlaw:
Is this not the greatest Youtube clip title of all time?:
"Jerryd is straight ahead at you. Rudy dips around. Jerryd is a rock. Rudy is the wind. Jerryd loves the ball in his hands. Rudy moves without it. Jerryd defends by getting up in your grill. Rudy plays the spaces in between. Jerryd has focused vision. Rudy sees all around him. Jerryd likes to score off of the dribble. Rudy can catch and shoot. Jerryd is aggressive. Rudy is sneaky. Jerryd will hit you hard. Rudy will annoy you until you hit him." -Dave
Word.
by joelor on Aug 27, 2008 4:41 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I love the comments
OFFENSIVE FOUL!
CLEAR OUT!
THATS BS!
Laker fans are worthless. hehe
"Why would we lie to ourselves dude?"
"Be excellent to each other."
"All we are is dust in the wind, dude."
"Strange things are afoot at the Circle K."
The Wisdom of Bill S Preston Esquire and Ted Theodore Logan
by GreatOden'sRaven on Aug 27, 2008 5:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
in fairness
that is a pretty clear offensive foul.
Still sick though.
Boomshakalaka
by jksnake99 on Aug 27, 2008 5:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh it totally is
But I just imagine the Laker fans! OMG thats a foul.. and Kobe could knife someone and they would swear that he didnt touch them. They are hiliariously delusional
"Why would we lie to ourselves dude?"
"Be excellent to each other."
"All we are is dust in the wind, dude."
"Strange things are afoot at the Circle K."
The Wisdom of Bill S Preston Esquire and Ted Theodore Logan
by GreatOden'sRaven on Aug 28, 2008 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bad move.
Am I the " Don’t trade Travis " campaign leader? I sure feel like it. Seems to be a post I am making a lot of lately. It is a cause I believe in. Don’t trade Travis. Him and Zilla is steep. We have a core. A good core for great things. Travis is a part. " Trout " will be the one that got away. From other teams.
by CanadianBlazerfan on Aug 27, 2008 4:43 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Ok.
I concede the postion ( not that I was trying to take it away ). Still not trading Travis is a cause I believe in. Judging by some posts I have read, I’m not alone.
by CanadianBlazerfan on Aug 28, 2008 6:20 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
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