Rudy vs. Bayless (updated with Poll)
This really has seemed like one of the longest off-seasons ever. With the promising increase in wins from the season before, and the addition of some exicting new talent in the season to come, I have been chomping at the bit for them to tip the darn ball already and actually WATCH some new blazer games. But, since we are just under two months still till the first preseason game, all we have for now is speculation and discusion. So here is a topic I have been kicking around a little lately:
Who do you think will help this team more in the upcoming season, Rudy Fernandez or Jerryd Bayless?
A lot of people are of the opinion that Jerryd''s intensity and determination and sheer fire will FORCE Nate to play him, and I tend to agree with that to some extent. But Rudy plays with a fire of his own. It doesn't come off as the same kind of killer instinct, nobody stands in MY way, kind of fire, but SOMETHING keeps that man moving all the time on the basketball court. Rudy never seems to give up on a play and never seems to wear down.
Positionally the door seems more open for Bayless. With Roy holding down the shooting guard spot with a big exclamation point, Rudy getting any significant minutes soley as back up to Brandon doesn't seem very plausible. (I have mentioned before that I am an uber-optimist, and I refuse to think of the possiblity of Rudy as our "Roy injury insurance policy.") The point guard spot is obviosly up for grabs with Blake as our guy right now by default. Also, it may seem that Bayless (while most agree is not a true point guard) is a great fit to play along side Brandon. He can bring the ball up, and could be that tough nosed defender that gives opposing point guards fits, therefore allowing Roy to conserve some energy and focus more on running our offense.
All this seems to point to Bayless as the one that will contribute the most next season, but I am not so sure. There is something about the way Rudy plays that makes everyone else better. Between all the backdoor cuts and coming off of screens Rudy is down there setting picks off the ball on opposing big men. I think he is a more complete player and the team will perform better when he is out there as opposed to when Bayless is on the floor.
So what do you think? Does Rudy do enough of the intangibles to command more minutes even though Bayless' position would apear to more open? Can a three guard line-up work for significant stretches (maybe utilizing a zone defense to make up for the lack of size with Rudy, Blake/Bayless, and Roy on the court) allowing both Rudy and Jerryd to play more minutes?
I just cant wait for the season to start so we can have some REAL answers to these questions. Untill then, I'd love to hear your input/predictions.
0 recs |
40 comments
Comments
OH NO
It has begun…..dah ,dah, daaahhhhhhh
ROY > MJ
by myemic23 on Aug 15, 2008 9:35 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
by which you mean ...
let them play it out?
by greyhound9 on Aug 15, 2008 9:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Once upon a time someone asked me...
Who do you love more, your father or your mother?
The Midnight Rambler
by amlmart1 on Aug 16, 2008 12:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
which one is Rudy???
Cause I love that one….
ROY > MJ
by myemic23 on Aug 16, 2008 12:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
he is your
hermaphroditic giver of life.
PS I heard hermaphrodites are incapable of reproduction…I have no idea if this is true or not
Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.
by jonestr on Aug 17, 2008 12:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well that ruins MY weekend
Great.
Grand. Terrific.
Thanks, Jonestr. Thanks, Jonestr— FOR NOTHING.
All that work, lost.
Mortimer :-(
by Mortimer on Aug 17, 2008 7:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love them both the same...
But my father definitely contributed more to my upbringing.
by TimG on Aug 19, 2008 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mr. Dread can you edit your post?
add a poll please!
by parkinglotj on Aug 15, 2008 9:57 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I see no reason why
Bayless and Rudy can’t both come off the bench and be happy about it for a season or ten. Seriously, if it means being the most dominant NBA team in the league for the next ten years it seems plausible to me. Plenty of starter quality players come off the bench for the good of their team, and I don’t see why Bayless and Rudy are any exception. I don’t mean to sound like a jerk but I just don’t see it as an issue right now.
myspace.com/marktwainindians
by mark twain on Aug 15, 2008 10:04 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree
I didn’t mean to make it seem like an “issue.” Like its a problem that we have or something. Or that it was an either/or situation. I guess the title of the post does make it seem like a confrontational thing between the two of them, but it wasn’t meant that way. I think Nate will work it all out and do what he thinks works best. And I do think that the both of them can sit most of the game and be happy about it, particularly next season, as they are both rookies. Maybe if Rudy got very little or no playing time he might feel lied to about his roll on the team when they were talking him into coming over. But Bayless would be in no position to complain at all for not getting ANY minutes. If, for whatever reason, it came to that.
by MattyDread on Aug 15, 2008 10:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay
They are both going to get minutes. They are two very different players but they are going to have to play their way into them. Rudy is the most experienced, and probably the most all around player of the two. I predict he sees the most minutes because I really think they are both playing behind Brandon. I just don’t see Bayless in the point at first.
by lethaldose on Aug 15, 2008 10:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
the issue is ,or should be
boy is it going to be fun to see both of them try to prove they belong. this is why i love basketball, i lost that joy in jail blazer time but the bad times make me appreciate this current team. heck, i dont know if we are going to struggle this coming yr or win it all, all i know is ,i`m glad to be alive and ablazer fan now more than ever good luck to them both
by 2phattoplay on Aug 15, 2008 10:23 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Nate has a lot on his plate right now
But its going to work out fine,how would you feel if you were Isaha looking for a job?
by southern oregon on Aug 15, 2008 10:25 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
if im a coach..
thats my kind of “problem” deciding who gets more minutes, rudy fernandez or jared bayless. but i agree that they will both contribute and get minutes on this stacked line up. oh and off topic, channing fryes startin to be one of my favorite blazers, i think its his interviews _
by rippedcity on Aug 15, 2008 10:38 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm not yet convinced how much Bayless will want to be just a better role player in the long term
For a few seasons while he is under his rookie contract, yes. After that, I think he either wants to have a permanent starting role with big minutes (e.g. once Blake’s contract expires) over other guys on the team, or seriously consider another team no matter how successful the Blazers are. But that’s just judging from the competitive nature of his character, we will see how it develops.
Rudy might be more fitting for a 6th man role, both in terms of his playing style and his character (he wasn’t the one and only shining star on his old team, and I don’t think he expects to be that on the Blazers).
Odenied: Asked whether he noticed Oden favoring his right knee, Frye dismissed it entirely. "He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors."
by Norsktroll on Aug 16, 2008 3:33 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I have suspicions that Bayles will not fit our culture.
Too much me play, not enough for the team.
I remember telling him how impressed I was with a player during summer league. In Avery's unique voice, he replied, "Marc, it's summer league." I
by TwoDeep on Aug 16, 2008 7:55 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
BAYLESS!!!!!!!!!
Jerryd Bayless is the best individual player on the team right now. I think he has a tendancey to take the team on his back because look at the situation that he has been in. In Arizona he didn’t have much to work with.Budinger (or however you spell his name) is about all that team has right now but he is pretty much just a shooter. In high school he didn’t have the kind of talent surronding him as he does right now. He is very used to putting the team on his back to get the victory. I think after a season or two with some mentoring by Nate McMillian he will turn out just fine. I hate to say this but I actually see Bayless as a longer term fit than BrandonRoy. Blasphame I know I love Brandon. But the killer instinct the Bayless brings = Championships. He has this sorta dare I say Jordan esq quality that he doesn’t just want to beat you he wants to destroy you.
by RipCityRoyCity on Aug 16, 2008 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Blaspheme,
Brandon is a more well rounded player than Bayless. No way is a 6’2" 6’1" guard going to make it in the NBA unless he is a point guard, which I still feel Bayless has to prove to everyone that he is. He is a rookie. Not to get too down on him because he does have that fire that hopefully will result in his improving drastically in the area’s that he is weak.
He’s not a Stephon Marbury as two posts above seem to describe. I think that he can be a little misunderstood because of his competitive nature.
by lethaldose on Aug 16, 2008 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like them both
But Bayless has a more NBA style of game. He reminds me a lot of Brandon with his ability to attack and shoot. Rudy is also interesting but I have been skeptical of his ability to play a European style against NBA defenders, and his defense.
I hope they both light it up, but to me Bayless just fits better because he can d up point guards which is something I don’t think Rudy can do. Rudy will need more time at the 2, which is a spot that is already taken.
I am really excited to watch both of these guys on the floor together. Our second unit is stacked. Bayless, Rudy, Outlaw, Frye, Przybilla. Sweeeet.
by koyote on Aug 16, 2008 11:43 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
i think
our second unit might stack up well in the eastern confrence
by BroyTheTruth on Aug 16, 2008 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
According to Courtside Rudy will get a lot of time at the SG spot in the pre-season
Maybe with Bayless at the one. Then we will see.
Odenied: Asked whether he noticed Oden favoring his right knee, Frye dismissed it entirely. "He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors."
by Norsktroll on Aug 16, 2008 12:20 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I imagin so
With Brandon’s latest surgery, I know they’ll go real light on him right up until the start of the regular season. So we will see lots of Rudy then I’m sure.
by MattyDread on Aug 16, 2008 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Blazers probably will (in my opinion, they should) use 10
in their regular rotation. First we have many talented young players who the coaches need to see play and to see how they fit with each other. Second, these young blazers are bit yet used to a 100 game schedule. They will need a year or two to physically and mentally get used to it. Third, unfortunately our guys have histories of injuries and medical conditions such that they should not play 40 minutes a night. Or they will have nothing left for the playoffs.
Stu Inman: a soft-spoken, witty and brilliant basketball guy -- who had so much to do with Portland's only championship. He believed that you won with not just great players, but with great people. (D Jaynes 2-2-07 Portland Tribune)
by OrygunRod on Aug 16, 2008 3:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like this a lot...
If we can win, and only need B Roy to play around 30 minutes instead of 35-40. If we can win with Rudy getting 18-20 minutes SOLELY as Brandon’s back-up next season I like it. The one-two punch at shooting guard, kinda like we have with Greg and Joel.
by MattyDread on Aug 16, 2008 5:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I see both Rudy and Bayless as part of a three guard rotation
It may take a year of two for that to gel but they do form a dynamic combination that Coach Nate can use to match up with another team. In the short term both Sergio and Blake should get minutes as they battle with these two. Roy has no battle. It is his team. Just my perspective.
Aldridge said. "We feel like we can beat any team. We feel like we can beat the Spurs, Suns, Lakers, Mavericks, whoever any night right now, and we'll still be here when those teams get old and their guys retire. We're going to be here for a long time."
by lee3022 on Aug 17, 2008 1:04 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Thoughts.
I find it interesting how the Blazers disagree with the fans when it comes to these guards. Fans often stay in their set views of shooting guards vs. point guards. The Blazers do not. Some fans keep calling Roy a shooting guard, the Blazers refer to him as the player they want to distribute the ball in the 1/2 court. The Blazers see Jerryd as a complementary player they believe fits the system they want with Roy – which is to bring the ball up, guard the point, give the ball off to Roy, and then go in motion as a 2 guard while Roy distributes and plays point. Bayless will run some plays, but not most of them. This tends to confuse fans. Fernandez will do some of the same things. In a practical sense, I agree with those that see these three guards as part of a three guard rotation down stream, all consuming most of the 96 minutes at that position. Blake will be the steady vet who will be a part of the glue required to give Bayless and Fernandez the time to develop. We talked minutes a few days ago. My view is increasingly that for Roy to have longevity in the league, he needs to be playing 32 or so minutes a game – but not much more. I also agree with KP that the next two years will see the Blazers increasingly win and grow, but it will take that amount of time to gel this team, finish detailing out the players and then become serious championship contenders.
I also don’t see Sergio getting much time, anymore than he did last year. We’ve basically added two guards to replace Jack. Both have talent, and they will not simply be sittiing on the bench. And that means that Sergio will have more, not less competition this year. Serio’s hard reality is that his play last year caused the Blazers to draft Bayless this year and bring Fernandez over. The Blazers, by their actions, do not see Sergio as one of their 4 best guards. He’s the 5th. If he had performed, the Blazers would have drafted differently.
by Eben Calder on Aug 17, 2008 7:04 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Great breakdown
I share your point of view on the guard situation. I could also see Rudy getting some time at the 3 if Outlaw and Webster don’t monopolize all the minutes there.
lickety-brindle
by Billy Ray Bates on Aug 17, 2008 8:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I see Bayless as a
great 4th quarter guy. He doesn’t fold under pressure, and he gets to the rim and finishes. Not that Rudy isn’t a good 4th Q. guy, but Brandon will be in in the 4th.
My finishers:
Bayless, Roy, T-Law, LMA, Oden
My favorite teams are the Blazers and any team that is playing the Lakers.
by OCBlazerFan1 on Aug 17, 2008 7:18 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I think you're right on with the list of finishers...
"TominHawaii's real name is Hubert and he's a rancher in Burns."
by timbo on Aug 19, 2008 9:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
look at that poll
almost 50/50. I haven’t seen something this close in a while. Are these two players going to keep us apart? This is kind of like the Outlaw/Webster debate.
by parkinglotj on Aug 17, 2008 8:47 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
It will
It’s one thing I don’t like about this place. It seems like if you like one player at a position, then you have to hate the other guy who plays that position. The worst part is that Rudy and Bayless play two different positions, or should play two different positions. I think once the season starts, fans will see playing time for one as favoritism over the other.
"I grab every opportunity to tweak Timbo." - annthefan
by tominhawaii on Aug 17, 2008 9:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I want ALL Blazers to succeed
but I want KP to keep the players that best fit together. If that means Outlaw or Webster must go to improve the team so be it. I was even open to trading LMA — if — it got a future Hall of Famer here. It remains to be seen how this all fits together. I can see Rudy’s talents making (in theory) Outlaw or Webster redundant. Who knows, maybe Rudy won’t even fit in, (I doubt it though) and he’s the one that’s traded. The only thing that I can see as certain is: one, two or three of the current Blazers will be moved in the next year. Who goes? I’ve no idea, but I’m rooting for all of them.
by parkinglotj on Aug 17, 2008 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why do you think LA won't be a future hall of famer?
"I grab every opportunity to tweak Timbo." - annthefan
by tominhawaii on Aug 17, 2008 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope he will
but if I remember the debate was trade LMA to get the the #2 pick. (At the time Beasley was projected #1) With the #2 pick, get Rose. I don’t think this was going to happen, it was just a thought at the time.
To be clear, I love LMA. Actually, I’m wearing his T-shirt right now. But if Portland could get a Chris Paul type talent for LMA, I’d do it.
by parkinglotj on Aug 17, 2008 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
LA is a city in California.
"TominHawaii's real name is Hubert and he's a rancher in Burns."
by timbo on Aug 19, 2008 9:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And in answer to your question...
…………………………… LMA at this point appears to be on track to be a solid long-term pro starter, but not a superstar. It might of happened and I forgot, but I don’t recall him ever this past season taking the team on his shoulders and willing it to victory the way you see the LeBrons and Kobes and Brandon Roys do… HIs game is high level, but not (yet?) top level — that would be Chris Bosh…
"TominHawaii's real name is Hubert and he's a rancher in Burns."
by timbo on Aug 19, 2008 9:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wages of Wins on Bayless (no data on Rudy yet)
As the name suggests the measurements used by this site focus on Wins Produced, not so much on scoring like most other statistical measures, even sophisticated ones like PER.
They were not very high on him as an NCAA prospect, if fact giving him a “pessimistic” win score outlook.
http://www.wagesofwins.com/2008NCAAProspectTable.html
However in a rating of the Las Vegas Summer League performances, he was ranked fourth (hey, Kevin Love really seems underrated).
http://www.wagesofwins.com/LasVegas08.html
- – -
They also have some other interesting data, e.g. showing that our “big three” in terms of wins produced last year were Brandon (ranked a top 5 SG http://www.wagesofwins.com/15SG0708.html), Joel and Steve. Top trios: http://www.wagesofwins.com/TopTrios0708.html
That’s not terribly good news for LMA, Martell and Travis.
Unfortunately their 2007-08 analysis on the whole team isn’t updated (but should be soon), and stops after an article written after 31 games. http://dberri.wordpress.com/2008/01/02/why-the-blazers-have-improved/
Odenied: Asked whether he noticed Oden favoring his right knee, Frye dismissed it entirely. "He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors."
by Norsktroll on Aug 17, 2008 11:09 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Not so much one or the other - we need both.
I don’t think it’s so much a matter of either one or the other. After all, we need three good and consistent guards that can mix their talents together to be effective. We’ll never have everything “ideal”. Rudy can do some things that we’re going to like. So can Bayless. We shouldn’t just think about the defensive end – but also the offensive end.
For example, I think Rudy has done fine in the Olympics. After all, if he can get 8 pts, 4 rebounds and 3 assists against the all-stars in 19 minutes, then if he plays 28-30 minutes against normal NBA competition, consider what those stats will be. In fact, if he’d played Jack’s 28 minutes, his stats against the all-stars would’ve been better than Jacks stats against everyday competition.
On the offensive end, if you have both Rudy and Roy on the floor, then, at 6’5" and with his quickness, – it’s going to be a real headache for a lot of other teams. How many, after all, can put two quick 6’4" or taller guards on the floor to handle those two? Answer – not many. In fact, most would have to jerk their point to do that, and then they’d be handicapped when they went back on offense.
Then you have Bayless. He’ll be guarding the PG. And because of Roy’s size, it will be the PG guarding Bayless on the offensive end. Right now he’s 205. In a year or two he’ll fill in more and play at 210-215. Now how many PG’s can handle a 210 to 215 lb guard in a linebackers body when he decides he’s going to the hoop? Again – not many.
Then, toss in the fact that they’ll have Oden blocking out inside, and some 6’9 or so PF in most cases trying to handle 6’11" Aldridge. Now, if there’s one thing no one watching Fernandez or Bayless disputes, it’s that they are fearless and love to go to the hoop. And you can bet they’ll go there.
So, they may well have some weaknesses to work on – but they have some strengths to start with, and that’s a good thing.
by Eben Calder on Aug 17, 2008 1:22 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure how you compare the two...
………………. Rex is a 1/2, Rudy is a 2/3.
They’re both going to play, often simultaneously. I wouldn’t sweat it too much, injuries happen and they will both come in handy.
My own STRONG preference is Rex over Rudy, assuming a head-to-head comparison of oranges to pomegranates… Rex has a maniacal fire that can’t be taught or faked. Rudy? Well, he’s a charismatic player with a sweet baseline alley oop move and he hustles for rebounds — good things. I don’t dislike him at all. But give me competitive fire every time, that’s the stuff of champions… That’s what they traded away when they traded Jack; Rex has 50% more…
t
"TominHawaii's real name is Hubert and he's a rancher in Burns."
by timbo on Aug 19, 2008 9:41 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

























