blazer defense
First, let me just hi -- I've been a member since the Oden drafting, a blazer fan since the late 80's, thought lately more an NBA fan more than a blazer fan. I blame the "game that must not be named." I've been lurking, and probably will continue to mostly lurk, as someone always seems to say what I think better than I can say it myself.
With that said, I'd like to address the Blazers' defense. Here's a summary of what I see most often posted:
- Blazers need a premier peremeter defender a la Bowen
- Blake can't defend points
- Bayless can't defend 2's
- Rudy can't defend period
- Oden will shut down the middle
- Aldridge under rebounds
- Roy is our premier defender
- Trout can't defend
- Webster has potential but isn't there yet
That collection of attitudes seems to me to be based on individual matchups. However, if we look back to the streak last year, a big factor was our team defense. Sure Roy had some sick defensive plays at crucial times, but those stand out as special 4th quarter plays, not his typical defense.
I think what was really successful for the Blazers was team defense, including a healthy mix of zone. When I read comments about players, it's all about individual defense. But what we should really pay attention to is what kind of defensive schemes we can execute as a team.
Not being an expert, I'm curious to hear what you folks think about this issue.
My thoughts are mixed:
- Aldridge may be better off heading downcourt for the break, rather than fighting for boards
- Oden + LMA are going to mask many perimeter defensive lapses, and that means a defender with Rudy's penchant for gambling on steals will have license to be aggressive for those steals
- A healthy oft-changing mix of zone and man-to-man will make our defense frustrating and hard to predict. I'm in favor of a highly varied and quickly adjusting defense, and I think we have a well balanced coaching staff to make it happen
What do you think? Is this team all offense? Well balanced? A defensive juggernaut? Will we phase out the zone as players mature, or will the defense be situational and variable?
9 recs |
35 comments
Comments
Watch some more Spain games...
… and tell me if you still think Rudy can’t defend. I think his D has been more than adequate in the Olympics so far. His defensive style is more Allen Iverson than Bruce Bown— he’s not going to take the other team’s best player out of the game, but steals/deflections/being a pest is very valuable also.
Also, you are too general with some of your statements, for example:
“Blake can’t defend points.” I’d amend this to “Blake can’t defend the quickest of NBA PGs but does an adequate job on many other PGs.”
Boomshakalaka
by jksnake99 on Aug 15, 2008 7:16 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree about Rudys D
He seems to be a much better defender than has been advertised. Like you said, he isnt Bruce Bowen but hes very active (this definitely applies to both ends of the court) especially in that zone that the spanish team runs most of the time. He does drift off his man sometimes when they do go to a man defense, but I think that’s his aggressive nature on the basketball court. He wants to be doing SOMETHING to help at all times, and following a guy who may not get the ball for who knows how long doesnt seem to sit well with his active nature. I really think he can be coached to play better man defense without too much adjustment. Check out how he gets tips on LOTS of rebounds that he might not pull down himself but helps keep alive. If there is a loose ball anywhere near him his ON IT. He is constantly in motion and he gets his hands on a lot of rebounds and loose balls because of it. I think he could wind up giving us more possessions with hustling, active defense than he will cost us points with poor man-to-man defense.
by MattyDread on Aug 15, 2008 7:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
To be clear ...
I am trying to sum up what I typically see posted.
I agree with your more detailed evaluations, though I haven’t been able to see Rudy yet myself.
by greyhound9 on Aug 15, 2008 8:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
fair enough..
All those things Im sure have been said at one time or another. I do think Rudy gets a bad rap on the D is all.
by MattyDread on Aug 15, 2008 8:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rudy gets lost once in while
but it is an over hustle problem that Monty can fix
by southern oregon on Aug 15, 2008 9:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I too wonder why people are so negative about Rudy's D
From what I’ve seen he does a very adequate job. People like to use Kobe, Lebron, Wade and guys like that as examples of Rudy’s D not being able to cut it in the NBA. You can’t use the best of the best offensive players to make an example. As I’ve said before we don’t play the Cavs 82 games a year so don’t worry so much how people will do against a guy like Lebron.
by Bskey on Aug 15, 2008 9:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
According to scouting reports
Rudy can be a savvy defender, but he doesn’t have the physical tools(lateral quickness and a long wingspan) to be a very good defender. So, to be as effective as possible, he really must rely on smarts and effort. His success as a defender will depend on just how responsive he is to McMillan, and how much of his effort he is willing to sacrifice on the defensive end.
"I've hacked into your brain. You're throwing a party and no one's showing up."
by ignign*kt on Aug 16, 2008 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree about team defense being important
but being a solid individual defender is definitely important.
Bayless can’t defend 2’s
So what? I see bayless as a guy who defends “ones” all the time. All this talk of him possibly playing SG is ridiculous there is no time for him there. He will play the “PG” but Brandon will run the offense. Which is why I think he will be starter pretty quickly
I know you were just quoting other people so I’m just responding to people that say that
by Zaron5551 on Aug 15, 2008 7:20 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
On Bayless,
He will be an active defender, not as good as Blake against the 1, and a below average passer. I tend to think he will be a one trick pony, at least at first. Only time seeing him play within our offense will change my mind.
I totally agree that our streak was predicated by our defense. James Jones a big part of this, but mostly because we were more balanced on both sides of the ball.
Perimeter defense is where we need the most improvement.
by lethaldose on Aug 15, 2008 9:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
More Bayless
Forgive my sarcasm but which “2’s” has Bayless had trouble defending?
by fat27 on Aug 17, 2008 2:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Any two
6’5 and over with a high jumper and good post up game. Which is alot of two’s in the NBA. How is he gonna get up and block their shot? I see alot of teams creating mis-matches with him and taking advantage of his short height.
by lethaldose on Aug 17, 2008 10:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Philosophical question (not to say I like Jerryd's defense very much)
In a clear mismatch, who would you rather be: The taller guy or the quicker guy
Odenied: Asked whether he noticed Oden favoring his right knee, Frye dismissed it entirely. "He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors."
by Norsktroll on Aug 18, 2008 3:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd be the taller
guy and let someone else guard the quicker guy.
by lethaldose on Aug 18, 2008 7:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let me better clarify,
This is an issue of playing the 2 which is what Bayless is best suited for at this point in time. Now don’t get me wrong I think he can shine at this position but he will be a defensive liability on one end of the floor all the while being an offensive threat on the other end primarily because of his quickness.
Many teams when they see him and another small defender playing the point will be quick to try to post up Bayless if he is defending a bigger player. The taller player wont have to get by Bayless all he will have to do is receive the ball in the post and shoot over him unless another defender can come over to help, which of course leaves someone else open to pass to or move the ball to the weak side. His speed is totally mitigated plus it will be easy to pass over him since he cant get up high enough to stop you.
Now on the other end of the floor Bayless will be able to do some damage because of his speed but it dosent help him as much on the defensive end if he guards a larger guard. The guard dosent have to drive on him just hold position and receive the ball deep.
What I truly hope for is that Bayless learns to effectively play the point where he will easily be matched up with a player more his height that wont be able to take advantage of him on the other end of the floor. There are but few shorter 2’s that were really effective, the first one and probably the best was Joe Dumars who was 6’3 and could torch you especially on the offensive end, and who played pretty good D also. If Bayless can do what he did it wont really matter all that much but still Dumars would be taken to task by a bigger stronger guard at least when he had to defend.
by lethaldose on Aug 18, 2008 8:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like the idea
of an often changing defense. It does make it tough for opposing teams to come up with an offensive game plan. It could make us really tough to score on. A lot of our problem last season was that when Joel wasn’t in the game the middle seemed to open wide up, and easy buckets were plentiful for the bad guys. With Oden as the starter and Joel backing him up I bet we see a lot fewer of those easy buckets.
by MattyDread on Aug 15, 2008 8:09 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
that's exactly what I like ...
it makes teams react. they expect to react to the offense. but to make them react to the defense as well — you could really discombobulate a team. which Oden, i think, will enjoy.
sure helped boston against la … and i loved watching la lose. can’t wait till till the Blazers get ’em!
by greyhound9 on Aug 15, 2008 10:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I also like
how Boston killed LA. They shut them down. Thats why they won, and it was with team defense. Smart defense, they shut down the other teams best player, and really no one person was responsible. I can only hope our Blazers can play this way together.
by lethaldose on Aug 15, 2008 11:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Much discussion in general on BE seems to focus on individuals
As you have noted, it is a team game. In my opinion that is the biggest strength of this team – its culture to play as a team and win as a team. As KP adds better and better talent the result improves as well. But each piece still has to fit to keep the team culture playing the team way. It is all the more amazing that KP seems to get the best talent who also are willing to commit to this culture.
That said, on defense there are certain players in the league that seem to break down defenses no matter how together they play. For these players, a stopper is desirable. However our team can win without one by forcing that one player to play good defense and by stopping his teammates with team defense. As you limited this post to defense I will stop there.
Aldridge said. "We feel like we can beat any team. We feel like we can beat the Spurs, Suns, Lakers, Mavericks, whoever any night right now, and we'll still be here when those teams get old and their guys retire. We're going to be here for a long time."
by lee3022 on Aug 15, 2008 10:32 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I want to put this in a different way
Do we have the veterans, experience, intelligence ala Boston to play effective team defense? Or are we too young right now? Not that age, or even veteranship, are really necessary to play this way. If you all get what I am trying to say.
by lethaldose on Aug 15, 2008 11:15 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
A big part of our 13 game streak
was our ability to stifle teams with a zone defense (especially Utah). Nate McMillian effectively utilizes the zone defense and we have many players, though not excellent man to man defenders, who thrive in a zone defense. The ability to play the zone depends on communication to prevent lapses of rotations. It is quite clear to me that Nate overachieves with his teams because he can get good defense from mediocre defenders (including his sonics teams). I’m not too worried about our overall defense because we do have one of, if not the best, defensive coaches in the league. In addition, we have some nearly unstoppable offensive weapons while playing team ball. That means we don’t have to get a stop every time, just more often than our opponent. So far we are headed in the right direction and have shown the skills to make higher expectations possible.
by NWfan on Aug 16, 2008 12:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, greyhound...
I think that you have underestimated your ability to contribute here. Excellent topic, well presented and I agree with you and the points that you are making here. We Bedgers often make assertions about a players abilities based on our own perceptions of that player, and in many cases don’t realize how our biases and/or preconceived notions may be causing us to see only what we are expecting to see when we watch that given player.
BTW: I rec’ed your FanPost!
LMA's reign as "LaMonster of the Low Post" has just begun!
by LaMarvelous on Aug 15, 2008 11:54 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Suppose we want to improve our perimeter defense quickly and cheaply, how about Quinton Ross?
He is an unrestricted free agent formerly with the Clippers, and nobody seems interested in him, which I think is crazy. Yeah he is not Bruce Bowen, Shane Battier or Raja Bell, but the guy is an absolutely underrated defender. 6’6 shooting guard (who can also play some three, but we have Batum for that role), turned 27 in April, about 4 ppg throughout his career, has worked on hitting the three but isn’t a shooter by any stretch of the imagination. Yet he wouldn’t be on the team for his offense, but to shut down opposing players for some stretches. Don’t just take my word for it, here is DraftExpress’ current scouting report on him (“very long arms… moves feet extremely well… almost never turns the ball over… a tremendous defender who plays aggressively on the ball without fouling… won’t go after bad passes or reach”).
I know we also need to improve our SF position (my dream would still be to somehow pry Danny Granger away from Indiana) and hope the planned “two combo guards switching responsibilities” defense turns out well, but that would be a serious role player addition. Last season Ross played for $800,000, so we should be able to get him e.g. for the bi-annual veteran’s exception. If a greater deal comes up around the trade deadline that requires an additional roster spot, you could still try to move him for a pick or waive him (I highly doubt at this point they want to still bring PetKo over).
I love the notion that we should also focus on team defense instead of just on one-on-one defense (Rudy also is used to a lot of zone defense), but a defensive specialist wouldn’t hurt IMHO.
Odenied: Asked whether he noticed Oden favoring his right knee, Frye dismissed it entirely. "He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors."
by Norsktroll on Aug 16, 2008 5:04 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
whoa
Ross if a UFA? I had no idea. He was a big part of that “good” Clippers team a couple years back. I don’t think he’s a 3, though. Not much room at 2. Maybe a good practice/insurance player though.
by kickbrass on Aug 16, 2008 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i agree
i’d be much more likely to give up the 15th spot to him over Luke Jackson, or the mountain man
by BroyTheTruth on Aug 16, 2008 9:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is one type of player KP seems to avoid
The term comes to mind JAG (just a guy). KP has amassed a team each with a special skill and at least the potential to be an excellent all-around player. Ross might seem desirable to a 41-41 team that lacks defenders but for the 60+ wins championship contender we hope to become he doesn’t seem to fit. Both Rudy and Roy can defend and both are special all-around talents (with Roy already NBA proven and Rudy playing very well in the ACB and Olympics – perhaps the best player on the Spanish team).
As we head into this year I hear KP wanting to maintain the team at least for the early months and perhaps to maintain that open 15th spot as well. Kopenen is still in play for the spot and in my view offers to become special over time.
Aldridge said. "We feel like we can beat any team. We feel like we can beat the Spurs, Suns, Lakers, Mavericks, whoever any night right now, and we'll still be here when those teams get old and their guys retire. We're going to be here for a long time."
by lee3022 on Aug 17, 2008 1:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry I meant to include
We have three exceptional athletes at SF and Batum already looks capable of contributing on defense should we need a stopper. The other two bring exciting offense and at least adequate defense and continue to improve. We don’t want to stop progress for those three at SF.
Aldridge said. "We feel like we can beat any team. We feel like we can beat the Spurs, Suns, Lakers, Mavericks, whoever any night right now, and we'll still be here when those teams get old and their guys retire. We're going to be here for a long time."
by lee3022 on Aug 17, 2008 1:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like Quinton Ross.
I’d wonder about PT for him on this team. But then, if he’s the best perimeter defender on the team, Nate would find him minutes.
"Don't draw fire; it irritates the people around you." - Your Buddies
by timg56 on Aug 18, 2008 3:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Team Defense is Key
Others have already brought up how defense was a huge part of the 13 game streak. I am going to bring up a name that was a big part of our team defense last year that we will miss: Jarrett Jack. He wasn’t the greatest one-on-one defender but he was a coach on the floor in the zone defense and was fantastic at sending his man into help. Sometimes the help wasn’t there, usually Travis missing his assignment, but he would force his man where he wanted him to go.
Bayless looks like he might be a better one-on-one guy and Rudy might be a better steal guy but it may take a while for them, or anyone else, to match Jack’s intelligence on defense as well as his coaching on the floor.
I do envision the Blazers being a sound defensive team with Oden and LMA on the floor at the same time. They will make it more difficult for guards to finish inside. Also our second unit will be better with Joel anchoring the defense. Rebounding is also a huge part of playing defense. Last year we stopped teams once or twice but could never secure the offensive rebound to end the threat. With Oden or Joel on the floor at all times, we should be a lot better at the one and done trip down the floor for our opponents.
PTB Liberation Day - 2/10/04
by tssbro on Aug 17, 2008 12:49 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
no one can say for sure
But Oden will definitely average 40 rebounds per game and 15 blocks. Without a doubt.
by 50backflips on Aug 18, 2008 7:00 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Team Defense
“Lock Down” defenders that also are good offensive players are a rare commodity, even in the NBA. In fact, that type of player is generally an all-star. In this context, we’re a little hard on these players at this point.
Oden and Aldridge will almost always have an edge in the paint, and that’s going to change our defensive play at all other positions. Further, having Pryz and Frye on the second unit also continues this edge, as very few teams can match up against these two on the second unit. Portland’s team defense, as a result, will almost certainly begin in the frontcourt, and then bleed back to the other three positions. Roy will, when he’s on the floor, handle the other teams SG. Further, Fernandez will also have the same defensive assignment – and both are adequate in almost all cases, with few exceptions. Then, we have Blake and Bayless. They will always handle the other PG. Blake is currently an adequate defender against most PG’s – but not all. Bayless, conversely, is not really a known quantity, but he has the size, quickness, strength and leaping ability to be an effective defender against most other PG’s as well. Obviously, he has to mature. This then leaves SF. In this case, we have two options. We can go tall or not, and obviously, to do that, Trout and Webster need to continue to improve.
No team is dominant at every defensive position. Portland, however, appears to have the tools to be dominant in the front court – or certainly better than the opposition.
Keep in mind that if Oden/Adridge etc. are effective in the paint, it changes the other teams offense, and our defense. If they take away their inside game, this forces opponents outside, and puts the defensive emphasis for the other positions on stopping pick and rolls and jump shots, etc., as opposed to inside drives. It doesn’t do a quicker PG anygood to slip by Blake or Bayless, if he can’t finish at the rim. He’ll simply have to pass back out. At which point the ball won’t be in the PG’s hands, but someone else’s. At the same time, if teams are often forced outside, then our height will often limit them to one shot. Both scenerios are defensive wins.
by Eben Calder on Aug 18, 2008 7:30 AM PDT reply actions 2 recs
Webster is getting severely overlooked here
I’d argue that Brandon’s one defensive team vote was based on All-Star status more than actual, consistent defense. Not saying he is a bad defender, just saying he is getting All-Star treatment.
Webster is this team’s best perimeter defender and is rapidly improving. Notice how he was the only guy on the team guarding Lebron last year that actually made Lebron work?
Webster isn’t a “stopper” yet, but he is a lot closer to that role than Brandon and certainly Batum are currently.
by BlazerD on Aug 18, 2008 3:50 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Dude
Have you ever really watched Martell try and play defense? sure he can take a charge but everytime he comes back in the game the other team runs high screens on him and and he is helpless.Part of the reason he wont be back next year is that he dont[wont?] listen to Monty
by southern oregon on Aug 18, 2008 8:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with BlazerD.
Webster may still have to work on fighting threw screens, but he certainly showed considerable improvement on playing one on one defense and I too thought he looked like the best defender on LeBron when we played the Cavs.
"Don't draw fire; it irritates the people around you." - Your Buddies
by timg56 on Aug 19, 2008 7:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

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