500 Posts Down the Memory Hole... (Isn't That Just Special?)
by timbo on Aug 14, 2008 7:50 PM PDT
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Printcensorship sucks!
public domain, via www.marxisthistory.org
PROPAGANDA OFICIAL FEB
La FEB da por cerrada la polémica de la foto, que considera generada "desde la mala fe"
14/08/2008 Pekín/Madrid, 14 de agosto de 2008
A causa de la controversia suscitada por algunos medios de comunicación en torno al gesto que realizan los jugadores de la Selección Española masculina en la fotografía de una campaña publicitaria previa a los Juegos Olímpicos de Beijing (en la que imitan los ojos rasgados que en nuestra cultura identifican de forma cariñosa a ciudadanos asiáticos en general y chinos en particular), la Federación Española de Baloncesto se ve en la necesidad de expresar lo siguiente: . Que, tal y como afortunadamente ha entendido la inmensa mayoría del público español e internacional y ha corroborado la embajada de la República Popular China en España, el único significado de dicho gesto es de cariño, simpatía y reconocimiento, que es lo que siente esta federación por el pueblo chino y su país.
2. Que la FEB mantiene una ya larga relación con el baloncesto de la República Popular China, con cuyo desarrollo está comprometida y que se refleja tanto en la estrecha colaboración en la formación de árbitros, jugadores y entrenadores, como en la regular visita a nuestro país de los diferentes equipos de la Federación de Baloncesto de la República Popular China para competir y preparar sus competiciones internacionales, invitados por la FEB.
3. Que además de las relaciones deportivas, la FEB ha sido una de las primeras Federaciones del mundo en mantener también relaciones comerciales con instituciones y empresas chinas, como la firma de ropa deportiva Li-Ning, cuyo contrato suscrito con la FEB es el más antiguo de sus acuerdos. Molten y Lenovo son otras de las empresas asiáticas con las que colabora la FEB, la primera de las cuales ya contribuyó decididamente hace dos años en el mayor éxito de la historia del baloncesto español, la medalla de oro del Campeonato del Mundo, conquistada en 2006 precisamente en Japón.
Por todo ello, la FEB considera que esta polémica, del todo gratuita, se ha generado desde la mala fe por parte de unos medios que han querido dañar la imagen no sólo de la propia FEB sino también de nuestro país y nuestro deporte, por lo que se reserva las acciones legales pertinentes para salvaguardarla.
Una vez hecho público este comunicado, con el que da por cerrada la cuestión, la FEB no realizará ninguna otra declaración al respecto.
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So did you take it down, Sophia, or did someone else?
Does anyone else find it utterly offensive that that thread was erased?
"He shoots....................... he scores!!!"
uhhh
I don’t think it was the topic of the discussion as much as it was the type of discussion. BE has a history of moderating that stuff and I’m pretty sure most of the people here support that.
Most people DO love Big Brother...
………………………………………….. All hail Big Brother!
BAAAAAA!!! BAAAAA!!! BAAAAA!!!!
t
"He shoots....................... he scores!!!"
I know I'm not changing your view point...
……………………………. but if one supports tearing down that thread for no reason, like it never existed, with no explanation — just basing this on the amorphous “daddy knows best,” then that person is indeed a sheep.
t
"He shoots....................... he scores!!!"
.......................................................... Because DADDY DOES NOT KNOW BEST.
"He shoots....................... he scores!!!"
amorphous "daddy knows best,"
It’s not amorphous, it gained trust from having been on this site for a year and a half and having seen Dave’s mod style (if it was indeed Dave who did it). I’ve seen crazy mods that mold a forum into their image. I’ve also seen wide open flame fests where everything goes. BE is neither of those.
This is a serious question and I would like the answer, please...
WHO PULLED DOWN THE “SPAIN MAKES FUN OF CHINA” THREAD?
"He shoots....................... he scores!!!"
Fanposts self detruct
when they hit 500……I saw a wisp of smoke
Norsktroll -"Carlos Boozer.............is known in China as "Fan Gu Zai," which, loosely translated, means "Betrayal Skull Guy."
Showing your age
or respect for your elders! At least enough for Dad/Grandpa to tell you about Burma Shave signs. LOL. +1 I’m 32 but saw one in rural Montana as a kid it was actually a mock Burma Shave but got my dad going on it.
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
Rudy & Pals are going mainstream now...
………………………………………………… watching a rerun of last night’s Daily Show, which got good mileage out of the shot.
Good Rob Riggle report pointing out the aversion to cameras of the “future benevolent overlords.”
t
"He shoots....................... he scores!!!"
"That Stuff,"
as you refer to it, was clean; no name calling, no dirty tricks. It was the best discussion on racial stereotypes you have ever read on a basketball blog – que no. I don’t think it was deliberately tanked (though I wouldn’t put it past them). Probably each successive fan post pushes down the previous ones till your favorite thread disappears. Poof! Pssst. Careful what you say; they’re watching us.
I'm assuming this is a response to me
I’ll admit I didn’t see anything after about 120 posts, but it looked like it was going to go bad. I took 500+ posts and Timbo’s irate response to the thread coming down as confirmation that it went bad… but if that’s not the case then nevermind me.
I am guessing
You didn’t read the whole thread, as there was plenty of insults.
So how did next season turn out for the Blazers?
…………………………………………….. since you presciently know the content of a subsequent 420+ posts, you can doubtlessly let us know how the season went based on 5 Summer League games and 3 Rudyfests…
>>I’ll admit I didn’t see anything after about 120 posts, but it looked like it was going to go bad.
"He shoots....................... he scores!!!"
Are you saying it didn't go bad?
I have the first 120 posts, the fact that it was taken down a site that doesn’t have a history of excessive moderating, and an irate refugee from the thread all indicating it went bad and, up until oregonslee’s post above, nothing to indicate it didn’t go bad. That’s about 1000x times the evidence of what the other 420 posts were than “5 Summer League games and 3 Rudyfests” is an indicator for the season.
There’s also that technicality that I didn’t predict the future or claim any precise knowledge of the content. I reacted to something that already happened and has left actual evidence of what has already happened.
Are you saying ti didn’t go bad?
"Bad bad bad bad bad... It was the work of..........................................
………………………………………… S A T A N.
"He shoots....................... he scores!!!"
lol
Timbo wins a gold medal for his work in this thread.
*
Disorder
Ive been waiting for a guide to come and take me by the hand,
Could these sensations make me feel the pleasures of a normal man?
These sensations barely interest me for another day,
Ive got the spirit, lose the feeling, take the shock away.
WORD UP. STAY. FRESCO.
Hey, I'm wearing the gold, baby...
…………………………………………… for real!
"He shoots....................... he scores!!!"
It was sharp at times
and people’s favorite notions were challenged. Conspicuously, the management let the patrons party.
I was hunting José Calderón's site for his non-apology to repost and it's gone already...
…………………………………………….. he doesn’t seem to archive more than just a few articles, so it’s not necessarily an attempt to memory-hole his own misstep.
Anybody know how to come up with deleted content from a couple days ago?
"He shoots....................... he scores!!!"
i don't know but if you search google it might be cached
also if the “apology” was posted as a comment it might be listed on who ever posted it profile
from google's cache
I would like to share a story with you about something that happened with the Spanish National Team that someone interpreted incorrectly. It happened in the photo session where the Spanish National Team was introduced; one of our sponsors asked us to pose with a "wink" to our participation in Beijing, we made an oriental expression with our eyes. We thought it was something appropriate and that it would always be interpreted as somewhat loving. Never the less some of the European media did not see it this way.
From here I would like to declare that we have a huge respect for the East and their people, some of my best friends in Toronto are from China and one of our Spanish National Team sponsors is the Chinese brand Li Ning. Anyone who would like to interpret this differently is absolutely confused.
Getting back to basketball, now we have to prepare because the next game against Germany will be at nine in the morning, so we have to get up at five. I hope that our "foolish" day is now history.
José Manuel Calderón
www.wayback.com
"If you have testies, you should not be wearing panties."
--- tominhawaii on Sep 11, 2007 11:24 AM PDT
Email Dave,
--- Mortimer --- for Blazers Edge Ambassador to the SBNations
Dave commented about 3/4 the way into that thread
and told us to wrap it up. It was clean and well argued all around, but it could have easily lead to some hurt feelings and name calling at any moment. Plus, if we’re all writing essays on racism we’re not commenting as much on…..Brandon Roy’s knee injury. Hmmmmm
If it truly was deleted to protect the innocent an explanation would be nice, even a small one. I’d probably agree with why it was done.
The street lights is on.
just wondering...
if it never did actually turn ugly, and the subject is actually something serious (and ppl handled it in a mature way for the most part), why would Dave tell everyone to “wrap it up?” I mostly read and don’t comment, but seriously, if everyone handled it well, we are talking about something of cultural/life/connective importance, and we aren’t talking about a part of someone’s leg until we’re all blue in the face (do you really think we need more commenting on that?), then what is the problem with it? I’m sorry, 99% of the time I agree with the disgression of the site’s moderators… but there is no viable excuse… and trying to make up one for those who deleted it isn’t going to take it’s place.
by Blindsteepler on Aug 14, 2008 10:03 PM PDT up reply actions
I think Dave said
something along the lines of “this subject has been fully covered and any futher conversation will just lead to rehasing and reflamming”
I never saw it turn ugly and I was involved in a complex debate. Just imagine that the deleted thread was Iraq and Dave’s intelligence reports indicated that it was a dire threat to the stability of the blog and he had to initiate a preemptive war on it.
The street lights is on.
Hey Mags
I hope there were no hard feelings or anything like that from our debate, and I’m fine just leaving it where it was at.
On a more important subject: how were the Futurama direct to DVD movies? I never saw ’em but I always wanted to…
One of my gramma’s last names was Magnum, so whenever I see your name I think of her shooting a pheasant and then serving it for dinner that night.
Mortimer
It was a great thread
Maybe they felt that here was not the place for that type of discussion, but why not just close it but keep it available for reading?
A Few Points...Please Read Carefully
1. The thread is not gone, it is hiding for a while. It will eventually come back and be a matter of public record. I had people writing me about that thread every day. I chose to let the conversation continue. But after 500+ comments the discussion really had wound down, at least as far as this venue goes, and it was time to move on. It was time for the other people who found the thread problematic, for any number of legitimate reasons, and didn’t want to read such material on a basketball blog to have their voice listened to also.
2. In addition to mostly everything that could be said having been said in all of those comments the conversation was growing increasingly chippy. Obviously in such a discussion one has to allow leeway for language, opinion, and passion. This site made plenty of time and room for all three in that thread. But some of those opinions and words were, by nature, quite offensive to some people. (Many of whom did not and would not feel comfortable joining the conversation, again for completely legitimate reasons.) Some of the passion bordered on personal attacks. Frankly after the post left the main page, which it did before I took this action, I wasn’t going to have the time or memory to review it anymore. Since the argumentative quotient was increasing as time went by (as was the feedback lamenting such) I was not willing to let that go unreviewed. There is no way to close comments on a fanpost so this was the only way to resolve the issue short of just deleting the thread.
Side note: lest anyone think the back pages of fanposts are completely unmonitored the flagging system still works and Ben and I do review those. Anyone flagrantly violating site conversation guidelines on the back pages will be banned.
3. Timbo, you seem to be direct and blunt in your conversational style so I’m going to do you the courtesy of being direct and blunt with you. Whether you like the way this blog is monitored or not, whether you find the conversation guidelines and their enforcement offensive or not, the fact remains that people are reading your words here precisely because of the way this community has formed and because of the way its systems are run. The 500+ comments you are lamenting losing would not have happened in the first place were it not for the things you are decrying and railing against. I make zero apologies for having set things up this way, nor will this change.
Nothing is forcing you to post at Blazersedge. If you feel you have a better way of running a Blazer blog or that there is a community somewhere that is run better there is nothing wrong with starting your own site or posting in that other community instead of here. No site is meant for everyone or will please everyone, nor will we even try. But if you’re going to throw around words like "censorship" and "paternalistic" (the latter in the pejorative sense) you need to remember that it’s easy to drive from the back seat. You don’t have to live and die with the decisions that are made here. You don’t have access to the readership or hear the diverse voices. The writers and moderators of this blog do both every single day. And it’s a job we take seriously.
The long and short of it is, it’s a complete waste of time to patronize an establishment and then complain repeatedly and loudly about how that establishment is run. Either choose not to patronize it or join the conversation in such a manner as leaves those who do enjoy the place in peace.
4. Last point: All of this could have been taken up with much less bother in an e-mail. It also would be a far more courteous gesture, by the way. My e-mail is posted and linked under every post I make on the main page. In the future I would invite people to ask their questions in that manner first before using up fanposts like this.
—Dave
by Dave on Aug 14, 2008 11:02 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Thanks for the clarification Dave
It was an interesting conversation, but one could have benefitted from a full-time moderator — obviously not an option here.
Just curious — why isn’t there a way to close comments on a fanpost? Is it just one of those things the SBN techies haven’t done yet?
Yeah, thanks for the clarification
Just a technical comment: I think the ability to close comments for a thread or post an article where comments are closed from the beginning is an important feature of a blog / forum software.
I have an acquaintance who is a journalist and running a media blog, who was in conflict with a company whose business practices a lot of people criticized because they bordered on “three card monte” games. He wrote a biting article, and as usual allowed comments to come in without previous reviews – just like this site. He moderated them of course, but in the middle of the night a comment was posted that was clearly offensive. He removed that comment after it was on the site for about five hours – on a Sunday morning. The criticized company sued him anyway, and in first instance a court ruled that he should have taken preventive measures and read all comments before posting them, leading to an extended legal battle that in essence has to clarify if comments on a website are like letters to the editor of a newspaper. Since then, he hasn’t stopped writing over this company or toned down his style much, but closes comments for articles chronicling the judicial process completely (apart from track-backs by other blogs) and other articles about controversial issues periodically while he is away from his computer and can’t review them in a timely fashion.
Of course a sports blog is much less controversial, but you too are not immune against people posting very offensive material. So I think an option to lock down and unlock an article is a missing feature for an administrator of a big site, and the software should support this. If it doesn’t, I would put in a change request just to be sure you have that functionality available even if you don’t really intend to use it ;-)
Odenied: Asked whether he noticed Oden favoring his right knee, Frye dismissed it entirely. "He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors."
I support the move
Man I love tongue tacos - Mortimer
Only thing better is Trout on a stick roasted over an open fire - annthefan
I have a pic like that of my dog - tominhawaii
by Outlaw is Rejector on Aug 15, 2008 1:50 AM PDT up reply actions
Good clarification
And I do appreciate the explanation, though it seems a little inconsistent to me.
You said in point 1: “It was time for the other people who found the thread problematic, for any number of legitimate reasons, and didn’t want to read such material on a basketball blog to have their voice listened to also” and in point 2: “But some of those opinions and words were, by nature, quite offensive to some people.”
Both of those points, I’m sure, are absolutely true—but couldn’t the response to those people be: “Nothing is forcing you to post at Blazersedge. If you feel you have a better way of running a Blazer blog or that there is a community somewhere that is run better there is nothing wrong with starting your own site or posting in that other community instead of here. No site is meant for everyone or will please everyone, nor will we even try.”?
It just seems that you shut off the fanpost (albeit temporarily) because of objections to the content (those who, “didn’t want to read such material on a basketball blog”—and of course, could have quite easily chosen not to read it), therefore taking their requests seriously and, finally, acting in accordance with those requests and preferences… but meanwhile, Timbo’s point of view is not as apparently considered as legitimate, and even evokes the typical response of defensive people “fine, go somewhere else.”
I don’t mean to criticize you personally or anything Dave, I think you and Ben do a great job—I just felt I should point that out.
Also, btw, I didn’t read that whole thread, I didn’t really care for the subject matter that much at all… but, of course, I would never have wanted to delete it. (Although, your intentions, cleared up by your post, show it was just for the sake of regaining control, and that it will eventually be put back up, which is definitely not censorship, it is probably closer to responsible moderation.)
by TimG on Aug 15, 2008 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Very careful reading
So I’m surprised you missed the part where he said he caters to a certain type of decorum (meaning that there’s a niceness rule from the beginning). He’s being consistent. And, his post clearly shows that he’s considering and listening to timbo. Beyond that, he’s showing inestimable restraint and tolerance for timbo. I’d even bet that his sense of fairness lends timbo’s words far more credence than they might otherwise get.
Refer back to Dave’s original moderator’s style, and you’ll see that he’s completely consistent about listening to both sides. Taking action for one side or the other, though, is his discretion as the master of this blog. He’s been honest and open about it from day one. I’ve yet to see him deviate.
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
I didn't miss that part
Good points, btw.
But I don’t think you really responded to what I was saying…
If the truth is that Dave will not “even try” to please everyone, and that his attitude towards Timbo is that Timbo doesn’t “have” to be here or participate, then that is inconsistent with his attitude towards others who (by his own admission) he listened to and (probably rightly) took actions to please them—it certainly doesn’t sound, to me, like in any of those e mails he said “you don’t have to read Blazersedge, you are welcome to find somewhere else.”
But that’s what he said to Timbo. Maybe it is Timbo’s abrasive style, that came off as totally alarmist and looked like a huge over-reaction (and I relate to what you are saying and doing Timbo, but seriously…) that caused Dave to respond in kind with that sort of response to Timbo of “You don’t have to be here” and later on, Timbo mentioned he would respond, and Dave said, “don’t bother.” Would Dave say to those who wrote him those e mails “honestly, don’t bother.” Those things are fairly rude and condescending, saying essentially, in the first case, that “you are not welcome here,” and in the second, “I don’t care whatsoever about what you think”—when, in th emeantime, he apparently cared about what others thought. Maybe Dave is frustrated about all this talk, diverting attention from his excellent Blazers sports blog, causing him extra work by answering more, possibly very emotional and serious e mails, and wants to just move on… and meanwhile Timbo seems to have instantly forgotten all the work Dave and Ben put in to this site, and instantly, after getting rid of that one thread for a bit, acted as if Dave was some oppressive censor. I can see why Dave would be frustrated… but it seemed like the answer to Timbo was at least as underhandedly disrespectful as Timbo’s post was. Maybe Timbo deserved it, and that’s what Dave wanted… but I just would have expected Dave to pay back a curse with a blessing, rather than respond in kind.
Dave, I totally respect your moderating authority, and I don’t want to patronize you or Ben, and I think what you did was fine (and I know that it doesn’t matter what I think anyway, it’s your site)—but I can relate to the objections Timbo raised, and I don’t think it’s right to make him (and, by extension, anyone who agrees with him at all) look like the bad guy undermining your authority for no reason.
Timbo is hardly a victim here
And I think people can see a clear distinction between responses, which is merited both by the tenor and history behind the comments offered. The “him and by extension anyone who agrees with him” is misplaced as this is not an ideological matter at heart (as much as some would like to paint it so), as is the idea of paying back with a curse versus a blessing. I am not wishing Timbo ill. I am simply saying he may no longer use this venue as a platform to speak in such manner. That is simply factual, and well within the bounds of propriety anywhere similar you might go or speak. As Hobobob said the boundaries for such things have already been far wider here than almost anywhere you’ll find, but enough is enough. It’s time to get back to basketball.
—Dave
Fair enough
Thanks for all your hard work and awesome analysis! And for giving me (and others) a little grace when we digress into religion or random topics.
This will all be a whole lot easier once the season starts, of course…
I think I understood correctly
All I was trying to point out was that there’s sort a consitutional, almost a priori matter, and those rules are the foundations that make BE possible. One on side you have the style used at the beginning of the post, on the other you have those emailing Dave. That he responded differently was a result of those fundamental rules.
So that we’re talking Basketball here, let’s say it’s like this. Roy’s been playing with the team for a while now, and he engenders everything KPs looking for. If one day Roy decides he’s going to shoot 100% of the Blazers shots in Dec, we have (an undefeated December) a breach of the underlying rules that govern the team. KPs looking for teamwork. Roy knows that, so when KP sits him down and says, “Hey, Brandon, I love you but basketball is a team sport, so shape up homie,” he’s not being inconsistent with the notion that he wants Roy in a leadership position. He’s merely bolstering the rules that led the team to success. Has nothing to do with Roy. KP only talked to him because he breached consititutional rules of the team.
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
I Think It's Super Odd
As far as fanposts go, it wasn’t really that much; just a copied photo and a couple questions. The conversation it engendered, however, was really high-quality and much to Sophia’s credit for being the catalyst thereof.
I read something close to 480 of the comments and I didn’t see a single problem with anything – nobody was calling for KKK crosses or PC muzzles – it was an honest, intellectual repartee between consenting, educated adults. While it didn’t REALLY lead anywhere (we didn’t, say, solve the problem, so to speak), it was engaging and kind of life-affirming, if not harmless (which is a VERY difficult balance to strike in internet forums, at least in my experience).
The only thing that stands out to me is this, and I feel two ways about it:
1. The use of the n-word: People of “both” skin tones used this word (myself included), in a literal, detached, scientific sort of sense. Not to absolve myself (which I’m not – swear), but my use of it was more to the effect of “wow! we can use that word?! I thought it was blocked!”. Perhaps that was the case, and the reason the post was dissolved.
2. The use of the n-word: In part of the debate over whether we were actually allowed to use it, someone suggested that (I hope I’m paraphrasing this close to accurately) the site’s governing rules failed the conversation to a degree in that restricting the use of such words reduced the fluency of debate and enhanced the scariness of the terms themselves. I totally agree. However, it did give me reason to pause and consider Dave & co.‘s part in this. Granted, he (the royal "he") runs an open forum and does so with an awfully tolerant hand, but were I Dave I’d be a little concerned with the breach of policy in order to hash out debates on racial semantics or the like.
This is a basketball blog, and while the powers that be are extremely liberal in what constitutes “appropriate material” (i.e. weight loss inspiration plans, parental issues, ahem.. blog literacy.. ahem), this site is simply not set up as a public forum to deal with such wide-ranging and sensitive issues. It could simply be a “wrong place, wrong format” kind of thing.
Then again, I could be totally off the mark – it could be something else altogether. In any case, let’s not start a witch hunt here and trust that Dave’s a kind and gentle shopkeep. Even if he weren’t (which I’m sure we all agree he is), it’s still the only game in town with such high-quality content, contributors and moderation. Let’s give an hombre the benefit of the doubt.
Plus, Dave just posted his thing so perhaps we don’t need conjecture at this point, anyway!
"Well, Travis just showed us that we can go to Travis Outlaw." - Nate McMillan
Not so much that this wasn't the place
I mean, there were multiple days in which that conversation was conducted and hundreds of comments. But at a certain point enough is enough when it comes to topics which may stretch the boundaries, however appropriately.
Also just because some of the people commenting and reading the thread didn’t find anything wrong with it doesn’t mean that all of the people didn’t. There were people who e-mailed VERY important and poignant points to me about the conversation who should not be forced to be “outed”, so to speak (meaning forced to engage in the debate), in order to have their point be valid. This is not so in strict basketball matters but in matters like race, prejudice, and what have you it isn’t so clear cut.
—Dave
Yeah..
that’s hopefully what I was getting across – that you run a basketball blog, not a scandal/race relations/personal soapbox blog. While that’s tolerated here (and beyond what most moderators seem to care to tolerate) (in a good way), there comes a point where the focus needs to be shifted back to its rightful place before the community begins to consume itself – is that far off the mark? Either I didn’t say it the way I meant to or I’m still confused, I guess.
Since I can’t seem to let a sleeping dog lie (and because I really, REALLY look up to your efforts as a moderator), I’d like to pose a tricky question: When do the priorities of the concerned emailers outweigh the priorities of the (presumably equally-so) concerned comment writers? That’s to say, I see the value in a blog/forum such as this being the combination of the insight and authority of the author enhanced by the content of the community that patronizes it (in a non-pejorative sense). It must be really hard to strike a balance between what you’d like the community to be versus what the community dictates itself to be, but it must be exponentially more difficult to guide a community at odds with itself, right? Do you ever feel like Lincoln in these situations?
Perhaps the latter question would be best left to one of your aforementioned emails, but as I’m certainly not intending to “call you out” and I believe others would also be interested in knowing how the gentle hand guides, I thought I’d include it here. Regardless, if you could respond to either of the preceding paragraphs, I’d be really pumped!!
Thanks.
"Well, Travis just showed us that we can go to Travis Outlaw." - Nate McMillan
Sure, happy to answer
There’s no set “right” answer, at least in my view. Were this strictly a basketball topic with no other implications I would pretty much politely tell the e-mailers that people are free to say what they wish and that if they wanted to object they could certainly do so in the discussion. However this is a little different.
Let me use another possible topic as an example. Let’s say for some reason a thread got started about homosexuality and people got into a heated discussion about various slurs used in that vein plus there was a lot of other passionate talk going on back and forth about the state of homosexuality in our society. Someone with personal experience might be DEEPLY affected by this conversation, perhaps even wounded by some stuff that was said, yet they might not feel able to voice their view for fear of forever being labeled in people’s minds as “the gay one”. Simply put, they have WAY more at risk emotionally than somebody who just wants to voice their opinion on this topic as one among many. At that point a private e-mail seems like an appropriate recourse. Similarly someone else might say that such a conversation goes beyond the scope of the blog subject and that it’s draining to watch the energy go that way and spread. Now granted, either one of these people could simply choose not to read, but especially in the first case when you see the comment count mount it’s hard to ignore.
In my mind it’s obvious that neither the people conversing nor the people affected by the discussion should be ignored entirely. It’s also obvious that no solution is perfect. So in this case it seemed appropriate to let plenty of days go by, let plenty of comments come out, but then to say…OK, we’re done with this for now. A similar thing might go on in a bar if such a topic came up at one of the tables. The proprietor might let it go on for a while, but along about the sixteenth hour of debating the “n-word” and the like while other patrons were glancing somewhat uncomfortably at the table, he’d probably say, “OK fellas…let’s move on to something new.”
—Dave
Right On, Dave
Thanks for the courteous and terrifically well-spelled-out reply. I see much of what you’re saying and agree with those points whole-heartedly.
I also really enjoy this conversation, so please take the following as a continuance of the conversation rather than my trying to pin you down to semantics. Also, if you’re not into talking any further on this point I totally understand and will be more than happy to let it be. So, here we go:
Were this strictly a basketball topic with no other implications…
What are those implications? I know this site is a rare and special breed of the online species, but I can’t quite pin down what makes it so special, regardless of my efforts. Obviously, excellent and intelligent dialogue combined with equally dedicated community support is a recipe for success, but the intangibles seem beyond my grasp. Did you have something in particular in mind when typing that? I’m not splitting hairs here – I’m sure it takes the vision and focus of someone looking to make “more than a blog” to make BEdge more than a blog, but what exactly are the implications to which you’re referring?
I would pretty much politely tell the e-mailers that people are free to say what they wish and that if they wanted to object they could certainly do so in the discussion.
This is more to my earlier question – aren’t the constituents of this site, to a degree, defining what is acceptable? Of course, you’ have the final word, but don’t microcosms and ecosystems have a selection process unto themselves? While I doubt you’d want a restrictive environment any more than you’d desire an overly permissive one, but the only input the community has on this site is through comments – doesn’t the community “speak for themselves” in that manner? I’m not advocating a “mob rules” mentality, but I view this site in my best interpretation of its intention: a haven for Blazer fans (of all stripes). Is it cruel to leave it up to the people to sort things out?
passionate talk going on back and forth about the state of homosexuality in our society
I’m glad you chose homosexuality as the topic, actually. Honestly, the only time I’ve been offended here was when someone equated being an open gay with being an open Laker fan (take it as you will, I suppose). I didn’t feel the need to identify myself one way or the other at that point, but for the sake of the argument let me “come out” and proclaim myself heterosexual. In any case, I really, truly consider Blazer’s Edge a cultured, understanding place for fans of Portland’s basketball team. Your efforts in this endeavor are palpable. That being the case, is Blazer’s Edge such a rough environment for “the gay one”, as you mention? Of course, I’m not so naive as to say that a homosexual would feel welcomed with open arms extended in a community based around a predominantly testosterone-fueled arena such as men’s professional sports, but couldn’t you make the same case for women, here? Surely AnntheFan and Jorga could feel slighted at times (and one or both has, recently).
Perhaps all of my arguments are de facto products of rules you put in place long ago. I’d believe you if you said that was the case – in fact, I believe you whether you say so or not: it’s obviously working. Clearly, under your guidance, this site is ROLLING, and rolling well. I really don’t mean to challenge what you’re doing here in any sense – in fact, I can’t think of another moderator I’d bother asking these questions to – and I think your response here would be invaluable. Then again, perhaps I should just buy you a malt and have a field day with all my wonderings, but this seemed like as appropriate time as ever.
"Well, Travis just showed us that we can go to Travis Outlaw." - Nate McMillan
" Surely AnntheFan and Jorga could feel slighted at times (and one or both has, recently)."
Oh yeah? Oh yeah!!! They’re still the F@kers. So there. ;0
"Besides, AnntheFan will be here any minute to #25 you." T Darkstar
Up yours.. female!
Why doncha come back when you’re like Meatloaf in Fight Club? Get roided or get out!
"Well, Travis just showed us that we can go to Travis Outlaw." - Nate McMillan
There you go, assuming again. How do you know I'm not roided?
"Besides, AnntheFan will be here any minute to #25 you." T Darkstar
Sorry Dave. You know I can't stay on topic.
"Besides, AnntheFan will be here any minute to #25 you." T Darkstar
Also..
I think it’s a real testament to your integrity and this site’s strength that you let THIS post remain. I’m sure other site owners would have resolved it, deleted it and moved on. Well done in leaving a public record of your scrapes – you have a more than sufficient catalog of quality insights to your name.
I haven’t seen others note it, so I thought I’d put my two cents in, at least in that capacity.
"Well, Travis just showed us that we can go to Travis Outlaw." - Nate McMillan
Honestly
If I err on this site it’s in leaving many things up that it might be quicker, easier, and better to take down. I’m far more likely to delete a comment that is an ad hominem attack about a reader than I am to delete one about me. It kind of comes with the territory (though there is a limit, especially in repetition). I also realize that the weakness in the approach I take to moderating comes when it relies too much on what is personally acceptable or advantageous to me. Therefore even as I firmly claim the right and necessity to moderate the conversation here I also tend to bend over backwards to make sure I’m not simply following my own whims or what’s best and easiest for me, personally.
—Dave
Addendum:
The point at which you will find me deleting such things are at the point I determine they’re becoming a distraction to the rest of the conversation. I am pretty careful not to let these things get too far out of hand and distract us from the all-important Nicolas Batum development talk.
—Dave
Dave
YOU ARE ON FIRE
Man I love tongue tacos - Mortimer
Only thing better is Trout on a stick roasted over an open fire - annthefan
I have a pic like that of my dog - tominhawaii
by Outlaw is Rejector on Aug 15, 2008 2:58 AM PDT up reply actions
litterally
Man I love tongue tacos - Mortimer
Only thing better is Trout on a stick roasted over an open fire - annthefan
I have a pic like that of my dog - tominhawaii
by Outlaw is Rejector on Aug 15, 2008 2:58 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah
Except for the improper form of the verb “to be” there.
Obviously it’s “The point at which…IS the point…”
—Dave
No..
I mean like.. Flames are attached to your skin.
Man I love tongue tacos - Mortimer
Only thing better is Trout on a stick roasted over an open fire - annthefan
I have a pic like that of my dog - tominhawaii
by Outlaw is Rejector on Aug 15, 2008 4:42 AM PDT up reply actions
More like the ongoing discussion of the cuteness of his buns...
I am pretty careful not to let these things get too far out of hand and distract us from the all-important Nicolas Batum development talk.
"He shoots....................... he scores!!!"
..................................... although I acknowledge they are probably still developing, so you are technically right.
"He shoots....................... he scores!!!"
In brief
In this case “implications”, I suppose, means a reasonable potential to affect people in a way beyond the boundaries of a normal sports conversation, especially if that potential involves hurting or offending people whether or not they’re in the conversation. For instance a discussion about Jerryd Bayless’ dribbling skills, even though potentially passionate, is sports-oriented. Even if people get offended it’s probably the people already involved (or who shortly will be involved) in the conversation and it’s “sports” offended, which could be expected occasionally at a sports site. In these cases I usually caution folks to be civil and fair with each other but the topic stands.
A discussion on race or sexual orientation, on the other hand, has the possibility to wound far beyond sports and it can do so even if one never types a word or personally provokes a response. Hearing or reading the “n-word” or a sexual slur is quite shocking and can be quite degrading. So can people’s opinions sometimes, even if well-meant. That’s just the world we live in. And really there’s not much chance to avoid those words and opinions when you’re reading through a thread. One of the particular features of online communication is that unless you have spent a ton of time reading posts from a particular poster and know his or her style intimately there’s pretty much no way of knowing what’s coming up. You get slapped over the head with things and have no defense…unless, of course, you just read every post with defenses up prior, but that’s a pretty crappy and unpleasant way to spend your leisure reading time and not at all the goal here. So these cases have to be handled with more care and therefore I tend to listen more when people comment about them and their experience in dealing with them.
As to your second point, this site is very reader-oriented and readers have a comparatively large amount of freedom and responsibility in determining the direction of conversation. Nevertheless there are boundaries and sometimes those entail judgment calls. Who determines the whens and wheres of those? I do. It’s not so much that I consider myself a superior judge of such things, but I am the one who has put the most time and effort into this place and I am also the one who has to answer for it to the rest of the world. My credibility, passion, and work rides on what happens here more than any single poster’s…in some (limited) ways more than all of the readers put together. Any given poster can leave tomorrow and not be responsible for a word that’s been said here, even their own. I do not have that luxury. Therefore it makes sense that I would be the one to make that call.
Another aspect of online communities that’s not talked about much is the tyranny of the minority. It doesn’t take 51% of the posters to ruin a site. All it takes is two or three to run over everybody else, say inappropriate things, and ruin the conversation. Any site that is unmoderated has a high chance of falling to that small minority who delight in ruining it or using it for their own aggrandizement (which amounts to the same thing). No matter how much the vast (wonderful) majority posts, they still can’t erase or counter the destructive tendencies. So eventually they leave. Obviously that’s not desirable. Thus the need for boundaries and enforcement.
Is it possible for boundaries and enforcement to be too strict and thereby limit conversation? Certainly. But looking at the breadth of, and participation in, the conversation here I think you’d have a hard time arguing that such is happening at Blazersedge. Do you see many sports blogs, especially team-specific ones, that have more people participating and enjoying it?
As far as the last question about this being a rough environment for the person in my example…it doesn’t matter what the environment is in general. It’s still not OK to put a person in such a position where they have to reveal things about themselves and their feelings beyond their sports knowledge and passion when everybody else doesn’t. That, by definition, is an unbalanced and problematic conversation. In our example of homosexuality, the majority of participants get to make comments freely and remain completely anonymous about their own orientation and background should they so choose. They get to use those potentially offensive words and phrases without consequence. Meanwhile the one who is hurt by those words or opinions has to reveal themselves more and make themselves more vulnerable before these yet-anonymous people in order to voice any objection or join the conversation in an honest way. Some of those people might even use that vulnerability to cause further harm…even if it’s just the harm of not listening or caring when someone just revealed themselves. That’s not right. That’s why yes…sometimes an e-mail gets consideration alongside a group of people conversing. (Though in this case it was SEVERAL e-mails from different sources for different reasons.)
And yes, you could make the same case for women and on occasion I have reminded people that we are among the more gender-diverse of sports blogs and not to be careless about their company or assumptions. It’s a fair bet if something were radically misogynistic it would be deleted before you could say, “Boo!” and if our readers brought it to my attention I would listen.
As I said above, the conversation in question was squarely in the gray area between all of these things. It was neither wholly racist and unacceptable nor wholly non-offensive and non-problematic. Therefore I did my best to ask those potentially offended to take the best construction they could on it (even as I let the conversation roll) and I am now asking those who were conversing to understand when it’s time to be done with the topic.
—Dave
Thanks, Dave..
that was much more than I hoped for!
I’m going to bed now (and I hope you do, too – do you EVER sleep?!), and will dream happy BEdge dreams with much more confidence than I did before.
I’m talking like amlmart, so that must mean I’m tired. In fact, I’m sure it’s not amlmart (there’s a number 1 in there, somewhere), but take that as a testament to my sleepiness before anything else – I’d look it up, otherwise.
Thanks again, and I look forward to our conversations in the future!
—12sharks
"Well, Travis just showed us that we can go to Travis Outlaw." - Nate McMillan
Dave...
I deeply appreciate the fact that you allowed both this and the other conversations take place. I respect you, your site, your rules, and the fact that you not only replied to timbo, but took much time, energy, and thought into your (multiple) responses. Well done and bravo.
I’m sure you get inundated with emails, and hear a good amount of he said/she said, in effect making you a “parent” of who-knows-how-many readers. I, as a father of only one, have no idea how difficult it must be to find what’s still grey and what’s out of bounds.
I realize that your baby (the BEdge, not Baby Point Guard) has really gained prominence over the last year or two (see TrueHoop and Oregonlive linking to you more and more, as well as Blazer insider status and you being on the radio and what not), and will likely continue to put larger footprints throuhgout Blazermania and the blogiverse given our promising team… so your comment about “VERY important” emails made me wonder if you were getting any heat from the team. Perhaps you wanted to quell it before it would get to that point?
Obviously this isn’t something you can just come out and say… the Blazers requested that I nip this in the bud ASAP… so just blink once for yes, and twice for no. You having some insider status (and don’t deny that you have such… even the little amount you may claim to have is an ocean more than I have) gives you access to things you might not otherwise have, so it is highly advantageous to keep and grow that relationship, which I implore you to do. In your shoes I would do the same thing.
With your growing prominence and connections and potentially sponsorships, did you ever/do you now feel pressure to keep a tighter lid on things deemed controversial? Are you at liberty to say if the Blazers DID contact you about this with some concern? Can you tell us how many active accounts are held here?
I’ll take your comment off the air.
Let your fingers do the BEdging.
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Aug 15, 2008 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions
No, not at all
No heat from the team a bit. Nor would they care probably. Nor would I necessarily respond well to such a thing should they try. Just a matter of conscience and good order among the BE community.
—Dave
I think your posts are great,
But in point number 1, you say: “The use of the n-word: People of "both" skin tones used this word (myself included), in a literal, detached, scientific sort of sense.”
I think you would probably admit this, but since when does doing something in a “literal, detached, scientific” way make something normally wrong become right, or neutral? I never got to the point where I saw any such racial slurs being used, and it’s sort of shocking to me that they were used, in a “scientific” sense or not…
Well..
it’s kind of hard to explain the sense I’m referring to without having examples of the actual use to point you towards. Once the post comes back up I’d check it out on your own and you may see what I mean.
"Well, Travis just showed us that we can go to Travis Outlaw." - Nate McMillan
Yeah, I don't want to start that whoel conversation up again
But what if there were some people just discussing the history of the use of the word? It’s function in literature? How its use has developed, and what it currently means? These are the contexts I have heard the word discussed in other places, when a lot of people often think it’s OK because it is, like you said, scientific and detached—but there are times when even talking about it in a totally detached way is wrong and offensive, especially if the word itself is being used. It is not just a word—it is a weapon, that was used, among other things, to rile up, motivate, and foment hatred and violence towards those it was directed at. Because of this, it would be like scientifically discussing the history of smith and wesson pistols, in front of someone who had a loved one who was shot by one of those pistols.
My point is, it can be used with no racist intention, or even with the intention of combating racism—but that doesn’t suddenly take away the connotations of the word, or make it acceptable.
Not to jump on you or anything, but I think a lot of people don’t even know they are being offensive using certain words, because they are doing it seriously, with good or neutral intentions… but that doesn’t stop it from being hurtful and threatening.
Anyway, I digress, I’m sure Dave doesn’t want a whole discussion started about this again. I just wanted to say why, maybe, even though the discussion may have been civil and not outright offensive, and even though it may have been intelligent conversation, it still could have warranted deletion, or some sort of action.
I was also surprised at the appearance of the N word
It’s interesting how words acquire meaning through usage. The N word is, on the surface, nothing more than a slang form of negro and was used as casually in the 18th-century South as the words man or chair. Now, I literally cannot even say it aloud, even though I agree with those who say we should be able to use it in certain contexts. I wouldn’t want to take the risk of offending or hurting someone or being labled a racist. I don’t even use this word.
Dave has to walk a fine line in siutations like this. He cares about people, and he does a great job. Thumbs up!
Asked his specialty in the kitchen, Oden paused and said, "Hamburger Helper and tuna fish."
by MiledAnimal on Aug 15, 2008 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Hey
Is it just me.. or is this entire fanpost in Spanish?
Man I love tongue tacos - Mortimer
Only thing better is Trout on a stick roasted over an open fire - annthefan
I have a pic like that of my dog - tominhawaii
by Outlaw is Rejector on Aug 15, 2008 1:46 AM PDT reply actions
Not the entire one, and the initial comments by timbo could be considered a part of it
Is this an English-only blog? That might be offensive ;-)
Odenied: Asked whether he noticed Oden favoring his right knee, Frye dismissed it entirely. "He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors."
:D
There was just so much reply, I wondered if I was just seeing things, or if I was the only person who didn’t know Spanish.
LONG LIVE OTHER LANGUAGES!
Man I love tongue tacos - Mortimer
Only thing better is Trout on a stick roasted over an open fire - annthefan
I have a pic like that of my dog - tominhawaii
by Outlaw is Rejector on Aug 15, 2008 2:00 AM PDT up reply actions
Hmmm...
I wonder if my fan post on what makes a good fan post should have included the suggestion of using a language most of us can handle?
This one seems to have started a conversation, anyway. It got a lot more comments from Dave than anything I’ve ever written. Timbo must be important.
Other people don't have as much practice at being wrong as I do -- HT, timbo
Alas poor timbo.
I agree and support everything Dave said. Nicely written. Timbo singled out and chastised might be appropriate. I though, found him glib yet not malicious. But none of what he said was directed toward me. Those of us who make a habit of railing against institutional power are wrong a lot. Usually wrong. I love Blazersedge. I suspect timbo does too.
I could be wrong now. But I don't think so!
If I were to use a cooking analogy I would say Timbo
is one of those ingredients that you’d really miss if it weren’t there. He’s the cilantro in the salsa. Cilantro is a necessary ingredient in many dishes from several cultures. Sometimes people don’t recognize that what makes the dish so tasty is that cilantro. Cilantro is one of my favorite herbs. It even has medicinal qualities. Good stuff! I use it all the time.
That said, Dave is, of course, the head chef of the Bedge, and I love his cooking too.
"Besides, AnntheFan will be here any minute to #25 you." T Darkstar
that is a perfect analogy!
because I cannot stomach cilantro- yuck! Sorry, that was rude, but I just couldn’t resist.
Hmm, I guess I much prefer timbo to cilantro, now that I think about it.
.................................... far be it from me to tell me he can't cook.
(even if it should be the case.)
"He shoots....................... he scores!!!"
................................................................... Taco Bell is very successful, after all...
BAAAAA!!!
"He shoots....................... he scores!!!"
Nah. Dave is tomatos fresh from your garden.
"Besides, AnntheFan will be here any minute to #25 you." T Darkstar
And, I might add, if you haven't eaten a freshly plucked tomato
still warmed by the sun then you have no idea how a tomato should taste. Dave is the homegrown tomato of sports blog moderators.
"Besides, AnntheFan will be here any minute to #25 you." T Darkstar
I just had one!
For lunch today upon a salad that I made. It was incredible how delicious it was. Fresh from the garden of my fiancee’s secretary.
It looked like a tomato, but it tasted like God giving a backrub.
Mortimer
"God giving a back rub." I wish there were a backrubbing diety.
I would worship it.
"Besides, AnntheFan will be here any minute to #25 you." T Darkstar
What ! You don't like the taste of rotten meat? You're just a youngster,
your taste buds will develop. Hahaha! Not that I’m in any way, shape or form comparing Timbo to rotten meat.
"Besides, AnntheFan will be here any minute to #25 you." T Darkstar
A few things...
For the topic, number of posters and length of the thread, it was incredibly civilized. I don’t know if you could of had a live, moderated “town hall” style meeting that stayed as civilized. That it was able to occur in a blog message board by, essentially, anonymous posters, was pretty amazing. I’m sure there are many similarly civil blogs floating around cyberspace, but I just guess that this conversation could have occured in maybe one in a thousand of them.
The post had run it’s course. If it had been taken down in it’s second day at the height of it’s traffic I would have been a little miffed. But it had already scrolled out of my 20 fanposts on the main page. I don’t feel like there was a good, productive discussion that was squashed in it’s prime. It was retired, a haggard and weary veteran.
Because those sort of off topic conversations are able to occur on this site, I enjoy this site much better. If every post that strayed from strict basektball discussion was immediately deleted, this site would be boring. Come to think of it, pretty much every one of my posts would get deleted (hmmmmm, note to self).
I absolutely believe that those potentially inflammatory topics can be discussed in a civil manner only because of the way the site is moderated. If you call it big brother, I’ll call the other extreme anarchy. People getting together and agreeing to operate under a set of common rules isn’t big brother…isn’t a dictatorship. This is still a basketball blog, not the bill of rights. I don’t buy a “slippery slope” argument that once we lose are freedom of speech in basketball blogs, we are only a half step away from 1984. Maybe that’s not your argument, but there is no guaranteed freedom of speech in BlazersEdge.
Lastly, using a post to rail about censorship in the posts…is just a bit odd.
Stick around timbo. 9 times out of 10 I really like your posts. I think I like my own posts only 7 times out of 10.
and…..
join us join us join us join us join us join us join us join us join us join us
I will have a lengthy and serious response to Dave, but I've gotta go to work and don't have the time just now...
(Stay tuned.)
"He shoots....................... he scores!!!"
................................................. assuming this thread doesn't get whacked while I'm at work again, ha ha.
"He shoots....................... he scores!!!"
................................................................................ actually, that wasn't a joke.
"He shoots....................... he scores!!!"
Don't go to work....
that’s just giving in to the MAN.
and the MACHINE.
and the MACHINE that the MAN has.
even though his NEIGHBOR borrowed it and never gave it back.
Then I expect you to...
quit in disgust, telling yourself to ______ off.
Then tell yourself you can’t quit, you already fired yourself.
Honestly Timbo
Don’t bother. It’s not going to affect anything. The way this blog is moderated is not negotiable, at least not the way you’re doing it. Either move on to different topics and stop complaining or move out.
—Dave
by Dave on Aug 15, 2008 1:15 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well I dont think the post went down the memory hole...
It happened like, 4 days ago and the discussion was over. The rest of the arguments could have been started again in the junk drawer or via text message or yahoo chat rooms.
I read the thread comments once through and was almost aghast at some of the things mentioned. I can totally see how the comments by several people and probably me, could hurt a reader.
Point being, it’s over. This is Blazersedge.com not soapbox.com ( I know Im on my soapbox now LOL) I only posted the picture b/c it included Rudy and therefor directly affects the Portland Trail Blazers.
Sophia
Leaders build cultures that create self-esteem, generate and sustain trust, elevate the dignity of work , create community and foster open communication, and finally encourage growth and learning.
-Warren Bennis USC Professor
That was a very hard winter,
and it was just like one long night,
with me lying awake, waiting and waiting and waiting
for daybreak.
- Black Elk
1881
Dont forget the women's basketball team
They really dont think it’s a big deal
Leaders build cultures that create self-esteem, generate and sustain trust, elevate the dignity of work , create community and foster open communication, and finally encourage growth and learning.
-Warren Bennis USC Professor
That was a very hard winter,
and it was just like one long night,
with me lying awake, waiting and waiting and waiting
for daybreak.
- Black Elk
1881
It seems like it's the universally accepted "look, we are going to Asia" sign in Spain ;-)
Not a good idea, but really nobody seems to find it offensive in your country. Different cultures, different gestures, different perceptions.
Odenied: Asked whether he noticed Oden favoring his right knee, Frye dismissed it entirely. "He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors."
We tend to be oversensative in the US of A
Anyone with a wife or girlfriend will agree… Right?? High five!!! …….. Anyone?? …….. Come on, slap me a five……… Hello??……….. Anyone? ………
Ah, shoots, I am in trouble now. gotta go…….
ROY > MJ
I really think
The people in Spain just don’t see a problem with this, as so many of their athletes have done it in photos for advertising. Very funny comment at the end of that link though.
"The most telling, eye-rolling response to the whole controversy came from Spain’s head coach Aíto García Reneses:
"If I go to play with a taller team and I put here (raising up on the tips of his toes) it is not an offense," Reneses said. "I can’t understand anything more."
Tall Mens’ Clubs all over the world have yet to respond to that statement."
Is it strange to anyone else
that neither TiHa nor myself injected an opinion on the matter? So much for that.
Stop being colorblind to red flags. Be a responsible poster. Be a Trail Blazer fan.
Praise Dave.
"it takes two to lie. One to lie and one to listen." -- Homer
Awe Man
I can’t believe you linked that song and didn’t use this video. It cracks me up ever so much. The guy in the striped shirt is kind of famous in some circles.
I’ll start you some controversy.
GO DUCKS! – I have an unconfirmed report that this photo is of Timbo.
"I grab every opportunity to tweak Timbo." - annthefan
Me Too
I can’t stop looking at his crotch. I really don’t like looking at his crotch.
"I grab every opportunity to tweak Timbo." - annthefan
by tominhawaii on Aug 15, 2008 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
LOL
best…
comment…
ever!
Blazers Edge... the blog that works.
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Aug 15, 2008 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Go look at this scrotch - praise the Phelps
What? It’s even a sports related picture.
Topic: Should athletes wear unis that improve performance but make them look stupid.
Odenied: Asked whether he noticed Oden favoring his right knee, Frye dismissed it entirely. "He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors."
That's funny
"I grab every opportunity to tweak Timbo." - annthefan
by tominhawaii on Aug 15, 2008 10:28 PM PDT up reply actions
yea to the Bedger who doesnt like the "At the door is aman who will greet you" in the blue smock
kinda makes you appreciate it not being this guy at the door. I may have had too much sun and fun this weekend, but why are these guys packing their material right side up?
"it takes two to lie. One to lie and one to listen." -- Homer
Aerodynamics
Up swept or down sweep?
The debate goes on.
"He doesn't let grass grow under his feet when there are points to be had." - Dave
That is one disturbing photo.
I wonder if they will put him in the Comcast broadcast of “Cheerleaders”.
My favorite teams are the Blazers and any team that is playing the Lakers.
by OCBlazerFan1 on Aug 15, 2008 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Hey Tom, I have a message for you from Timbo
“TIMBO TOLD ME THAT WHILE IT MAY BE TRUE THAT HE’S A CRAZY HOMELESS GUY, HE’D SOONER WALK AROUND BUCK NEKKID THAN WEAR YELLOW AND GREEN.” Love, Timbo
"Besides, AnntheFan will be here any minute to #25 you." T Darkstar
+1
I know the truth when I see it.
"He doesn't let grass grow under his feet when there are points to be had." - Dave
Oh yah
Tell Timbo his check is in the mail, for me. Wouldya?
"He doesn't let grass grow under his feet when there are points to be had." - Dave
Have you looked at his fan page?
"Besides, AnntheFan will be here any minute to #25 you." T Darkstar
I would say something about this...
But I have never been banned and don’t want to be. I hate feeling like a sheep but I like hanging out around here…
ROY > MJ
Is Timbo the Blazer's Edge Rosa Parks, Martin Luther King Jr., or Gandhi? I can't decide.
Again, this is another sticky situation where I shouldn’t be interjecting my opinion, but I’m going to do it anyway. Dave has sent me reminders, more than once, about my behavior and I always apologized and try rectified what I can. I think the only thing I haven’t been busted on is my signature. (Note to self: change signature.)
This is Dave’s blog. If he moved to a new website tomorrow, I bet the majority of people would follow him there. It is also no different than Dave’s house. If Dave says shoes outside, no cussing, or please stop discussing that subject in my house. You either do what he asks or you leave.
This is not an issue of free speech, it is an issue of respecting Dave’s opinion on how his blog should be administered. It is almost ironic that this blew up over a complex discussion that also included respecting someone even if you fail to agree on a controversial topic.
I love Timbo but this is not an issue. If Dave said I had to stop spelling “Lakers” to stay on this blog, I’d probably do it. I would get snarky every now and then, but I’d do it.
"I grab every opportunity to tweak Timbo." - annthefan
I definitely get that this is Dave's home....
and I think the analogy is very appropriate. Although, Dave laid down the rules for his home in the site conversation rules, and nowhere does it say that questioning the moderator is against the rules. In fact, it has this quote:
I’m not doing this blogging thing to be popular or make money or get famous. I’m doing this because I love great conversation about the Blazers and because the community here has become very special. It feels like Blazermania is alive and flourishing here. As long as you’re on board with supporting that environment in your conversations you can disagree with every single thing I say and we’ll be just fine.
I should clarify that I didn’t disagree with Dave taking down the Spain picture post for even a micro second. That made perfect sense to me. When timbo and others questioned Dave about the situation, I thought Dave provided a fair response that I 100% agreed with, except for essentially calling out timbo(which is a violation of rule 5b under Dave’s site conversation rules). I really just don’t understand why timbo was banned. Maybe I missed a post from timbo that was worthy of punishment, but if not, I don’t see why a fellow BEdger was banned simply for disagreeing with Dave and his approaches to running the site. Its funny because I really could care less about this entire situation, but feel like I should stick up for timbo because it does sort of seem a little bit unfair….
ROY > MJ
I hope he comes back.
If I don’t have Timbo to bedevil I’ll have to double my efforts to harass TiH.
"
“Plus, if I left, you’d only have Tom to tweak at every possible occasion — and that’s too easy to be fun, ha ha!” Timbo, quoted without his permission.
"Besides, AnntheFan will be here any minute to #25 you." T Darkstar
Oops. Excuse the extra quotation mark.
"Besides, AnntheFan will be here any minute to #25 you." T Darkstar
Timbo was banned?
I’m not doubting you, and I’m sure I missed something, but how do you know? If I stopped commenting tomorrow, would people assume I was banned? How does this work – is there a public black list or something?
Again, I don’t mean to sound sarcastic – for once, I’m not – I’m really curious as to how people know someone’s banned. I think it’s like a sports bar – if a regular shows up, you don’t have to assume they’re dead or 86ed, perhaps they’re sick or don’t feel like coming. Anyway, where’d you get the news?
"Well, Travis just showed us that we can go to Travis Outlaw." - Nate McMillan
Scroll to where you find Timbo's name in red,
click on it and read his newest entry on his fan page. You know, the page that has some set # of an individual’s comments and might have a personal comment from the individual. Such as 12sharks
"Besides, AnntheFan will be here any minute to #25 you." T Darkstar
Seems fair..
but it does make me curious as to whether he was “whacked” (his word, sorta) for posting the thread or for some further-reaching, soon-deleted malfeasance. It seems a little odd that Dave would allow his fanpost and a few of his comments and THEN ban him, but ours is not to wonder why, I suppose.
Plus, thanks for the heads-up. Does Dave leave such an epitaph for all BEdge exiles? Also, please don’t link to that attention-whore 12sharks’ page – it’s only encouraging him.
"Well, Travis just showed us that we can go to Travis Outlaw." - Nate McMillan
Yeah, I know he's a Beaver fan.
To me the U of O stuff was the icing on the photo cake.
"I grab every opportunity to tweak Timbo." - annthefan
missed
I am glad I missed the entire fan post in question. I am sure I could guess on the progression of opinions and attitudes. Ahhh…the doldrums of summer.
I can not wait until we are arguing over Outlaw’s best dunk last night or Oden’s best block.
I posted an opinion last week concerning Human Rights and China. A few hours went by and I realized I filled up space on a Trailblazers web site for no reason other than to hear myself talk (or write), so I deleted it. I would rather have discussions concerning human rights, race, politics, etc. with people who are prepared for their escalation…instead of just casually reading someone’s “soap box” preachery, and then reacting with my own form and opinion of preachery (I know that is not a word, but I like it).
Dave, you nobility as moderator is appreciated.
I look at it this way
It’s Dave’s house and we’ve been invited over to play. We play by the house rules. If we don’t he’s going to send us home. Period.
"We, as Blazer fans, are perhaps the luckiest fans in the league."-Idog1976, July 19.
In a sense
but it’s really more of a "make yourself at home" deal. But in making yourself at home there are couple things to know:
1. There are some guidelines for participation.
2. The discussion is moderated to make sure those stay mostly intact. If you look at the comments moderated versus the total comments made this affects less than one post in 10,000, but it’s there.
3. Where there is gray area, either in interpreting those guidelines or in an area they don’t cover, Dave and Ben get to make the final interpretation and decision. (And this is where the “Period.” probably belongs. We always welcome honest discussion and questions about such things, as has happened in some of the thread above, but the buck has to stop somewhere. For the cohesiveness of the site and the sanity of everyone involved that “somewhere” is going to be us.)
That pretty much covers it all. But if any of those are offensive to you then this isn’t going to work out for you.
—Dave
if you dont like Dave's policy you can
get a job with the state, and then see how far tolerance brings you. For example, in a past career with an unnamed county I taped a bumpersticker in my office that said “since I gave up hope- I feel better.”
I came to work a few days later and found my sign ripped off the wall file cabinet and in the trash. I took it out re-taped it, recopied it, and put it back up. In walks little Napolean supervisor asking me why I put it back up? I told him because I thought it was funny and I didnt take it down. He said someone was offended by it and had the right to remove it. I asked him if they were offended by the sign, why did they rip it off the cabinet (leaving a tape and paper mess) before they placed it in the trash can floating atop the daily changed liner. He said if something is offensive to someone they needent explain why, they can just remove it. So I reminded him of passive aggressive behavior and said I was offended that somebody was so offended by the sign that they tore it off the cabinet and didnt even have the courage to sit down with me and look me in the eyes and talk to me about why the sign offended them. Funny thing, the sign never came down again, but it was my first mandated exposure to Respect training. The moderator of the group took me aside during a break and said my story was not helping them get across the message they wanted to send. I barely passed the course which included only signing in and out each session.
"it takes two to lie. One to lie and one to listen." -- Homer
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