Blazer's Edge: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:



Sports blogs for fans, by fans.
Around SBN: Steve McNair Dead - Former NFL QB Shot and Killed


Keying the Break

We've talked a few times about the Blazers increasing their ability to run next year with Greg Oden in the middle anchoring the defense and rebounding.  Fast break points have been few and far between the last few years because we have not been able to simultaneously shut teams down, rebound the ball, and get in front of them.  It's always been a choice between one or two of those things when all three are necessary to run an effective break.  Hopefully (knock on wood) this will not be an issue much longer and the heart of a good fast-breaking offense will be established.

Another key element of the fast break is having people who can finish.  We're not hurting for those folks anymore either.  Brandon Roy can finish well...just as he does everything else well.  Rudy Fernandez and Jerryd Bayless will finish as well.  Travis Outlaw can put it through providing he catches the pass.  Lamarcus Aldridge and Channing Frye should be able to fill a wing.  Greg Oden will be a menacing trailer.  Even Martell Webster is becoming a force to be reckoned with, and not just because of his newfound desire to dunk with authority.  He's more than capable of drifting to the three-point line and putting one home.  That's a whole lot of people to worry about.

In between the rebound and the finish, however, come the facilitators.  This is the gray area for the Blazers right now.  Immediately people will say, "Brandon Roy could key the break!"  Indeed he could but he's not likely to.  Guards usually defend farther from the hoop which means they're correspondingly closer to their offensive basket when the enemy's shot goes up.  That makes your shooting guard the most likely candidate to be first down the court on the break.  If Brandon holds up to receive the ball from the rebounder you lose that advantage and the opponent automatically gets an extra defender downcourt.  You probably want Brandon streaking down as fast as he can when the rebound becomes clear.  That pretty much leaves our point guards to push the ball.

Steve Blake can run the break adequately, but that's not where he shines.  He's more of a halfcourt, run the play, hit the stand-still jump shot point guard.  Opposing defenses will likely make him commit to driving the ball himself and take their chances trying to force a miss from him.  It'll work often enough, but this doesn't exactly make for that "Uh oh!" feeling that the Clyde-era Blazers invoked when they ran it.

The much more likely candidates to key a devastating fast break attack are Jerryd Bayless and Sergio Rodriguez.  Nobody in their right mind will sag off Bayless and then try to stop him at the hoop.  In fact they'll eventually go out of their way to get the ball out of his hands.  Sergio creates even more problems with his fantastic passing ability on the run.  He has a little trouble finishing but it almost doesn't matter because he can thread a pass to anyone, anywhere, anytime.  The problem is Bayless is a rookie and his role is yet to be determined.  Sergio, though longer-tenured, can't get on the floor for other reasons.  One or both of these guys will probably be the future, but how far away that future is remains to be seen.

One way or another it would help to have alternatives bringing the ball up the court.  This brings up a possibility we haven't discussed yet.  We've heard several templates for a small forward, but one that might do the Blazers good would be a small forward who can rebound a little and then run it up without having to pass to a guard.   This was one of the assets for which Darius Miles was so prized before his career fell apart.   If you think about Miles in his prime bearing down on you while Lamarcus fills one wing and Rudy Fernandez the other, you immediately start soiling your britches.  There's a possibility that having three guys back on defense wouldn't be enough in that situation, as Miles could likely take a defender one-on-one.  Woe be unto you if you only brought two.

These guys are rare, but they exist.  (Probably half of them in the league either play or have played for the Atlanta Hawks.)  If Portland is looking to shuffle or consolidate their lineup without messing with the point guard spot this might be one of the directions in which they look.

--Dave (blazersub@yahoo.com)

0 recs | Comment 48 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

Josh Smith?

"I love Sheed. I wish he’d write a children’s book. Maybe he’d call it - How to $&%# Cuss Like a Big Boy."
--- tominhawaii on May 29, 2008 6:29 PM PDT

Email Dave,
--- Mortimer --- for Blazers Edge Ambassador to the SBNations

by ptwnblzr on Aug 11, 2008 1:59 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Can't get him anymore

Can’t get Childress either. But those types of players, yeah. Sort of like Outlaw with some rebounding and a dribble.

—Dave

by Dave on Aug 11, 2008 2:05 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I dont know about JSmiths

dribbling, but Joe Johnson, Josh Childress, and the ever gettable Boris Diaw

Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.

by jonestr on Aug 11, 2008 4:18 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Nonetheless

He can do it. In fact I believe a couple seasons ago Diaw spent time at all 5 positions on the Suns. I remember being utterly baffled as a fantasy basketball player seeing him in the boxscore as a guard and later at the 5.

by MavetheGreat on Aug 11, 2008 4:51 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i agree with Mave

you cant judge Diaw by how he was shoe horned into the awkward team that Steve Kerr created.

In fact i am starting to like the idea Diaw as a Blazer. He can do a bit of everything and might allow us another ball handler on the court.. who needs a pg when you have a pf (point forward.) 9mil is a good chunk of change but hr might be a good fit for this team (a great fit if he was a reliable shooter outside the college 3.)

Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.

by jonestr on Aug 11, 2008 10:32 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He's so timid though

I think he’d really frustrate us if he had any sort of an important role, since he disappears so often and floats through games.

He had a good season when Amare was out, but mostly just good compared to every previous season. He got his big deal based off of that and the Suns have regretted it ever since. He’s a versatile, talented player, but not one you can depend on. He comes up soft very often.

Maybe down the road, but I think I’d be disappointed if Diaw was either used with the cap space or replaced Marty or Trout in their current stage of development.

Having a 4th/5th option who doesn’t want to shoot is good in theory, but it’s not only that—he comes up timit defensively, is unsure of WHEN he HAS to shoot and when to pass, and his versatility becomes a curse because you don’t know which Diaw is showing up… it could be PG Diaw, C Diaw, who knows!

Of course, I’m super duper rad glad that the Suns gave Diaw such a huge contract, cause that made it so easy to get Rudy (and Sergio, and James Jones). KP working the magic, before he was even GM!

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Aug 12, 2008 1:39 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

those are all valid points

which makes me doubt he will ever be a blazer. I guess I am stuck remembering his 05-06 campaign when he was awesome. He has such a nice inside and mid range game that it is a shame he is not used more. He is just not much of a catch and shoot guy. He is definitely more of a second option guy if you want to get the most out of him.

I was also thinking this would be good for blazerfan1 as she could spread out her french crush a little and maybe avoid jail time.

Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.

by jonestr on Aug 12, 2008 9:57 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Won't be Smith

He’s not leaving Atlanta, and he doesn’t really fit our team culture.

Bayless and Sergio will compete for backup time at the start of the year, and the winner will run the break for us on the second unit. We’ll see more running on the second unit with Joel to anchor the defense and rebounding. I expect Bayless to win that battle.

By next summer, when we’ll be looking at making a move, Bayless will have established himself as the PG most likely to start, and he’ll be running the break. We won’t need that role from our SF.

Other people don't have as much practice at being wrong as I do -- HT, timbo

by jscot on Aug 11, 2008 2:06 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Just a thought: Imagine for a second ATL had screwed up and not matched the offer for Josh Smith

Marc Gasol, Darko Milicic
Josh Smith, Hakim Warrick, Darrell Arthur
Rudy Gay
O.J. Mayo
Mike Conley, Kyle Lowry, Javaris Crittendon

+ some scrubs (Jaric, Buckner, Walker, ...). And you can still trade one of your young PGs.

Okay, the Gasol trade was far from good. But that athletic young team suddenly looks pretty competitive if an addition like Smith goes through.

Odenied: Coach, I promise I wasn't running hard ...

by Norsktroll on Aug 11, 2008 2:28 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Cap Space

I agree, both them and the T-Wolves have looked like they’ve made some good moves for their futures this off-season. We’ve seen this before though, with both Chicago and Atlanta. They never seemed to turn the corner despite a whole bunch of young talent. The good news for Memphis is that they still have that cap space to spend on somebody. Probably not this offseason, but maybe next summer.

by MavetheGreat on Aug 11, 2008 1:46 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I am curious when it would be fair to blame Nate for our poor fastbreaking...

I remember hearing boatloads of hype before and during last year centered around the blazers running more and getting more easy buckets. It didn’t happen, we were one of the worst in this category and have been since Nate took over as coach, although there were legitimate reasons for our struggles on the break(rebounding for starters). I feel like if we are still one of the worst fastbreaking teams in the league, it should be Nate that gets questioned. The pieces were there last year to get more easy buckets, but I get the feeling its pretty low on Nate’s practice priority list. On the other hand, maybe we don’t need to get better on the break, I mean Nate did a heck of a job when it came to W’s and L’s, so maybe I shouldn’t question how he coaches our team. I just think if we don’t get more easy buckets this year after adding Greg, Bayless, and Rudy, it should be a reflection on the coaching, good or bad. I guess I will stay tuned….

RUDY > MJ

by myemic23 on Aug 11, 2008 2:19 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Seattle

Somebody could correct me on this, but I seem to remember the Sonics team that Nate coached running a fair amount. In fact, I thought they were a fairly high scoring team.

by MavetheGreat on Aug 11, 2008 1:56 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yeah I remember that as well.

You gotta rebound and force turnovers to break, and we didn’t do either well last season.

by MattyDread on Aug 11, 2008 3:13 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Seattle under Coach Nate

Pace factor:

2004-2005 = 87.9 (27th of 30)
2003-2004 = 89.9 (15th of 30)
2002-2003 = 88.0 (27th of 29)
2001-2002 = 89.0 (24th of 29)

Offensive Rating (Dean Oliver):

2004-2005 = 112.2 (2nd or 29)
2003-2004 = 107.3 (3rd of 29)
2002-2003 = 103.7 (19th of 29)
2001-2002 = 108.9 (5th of 29)

Record:

2004-2005 = 52-30 (6th of 30)
2003-2004 = 37-45 (18th of 30)
2002-2003 = 40-42 (18th of 29)
2001-2002 = 45-37 (10th of 29)

So under Coach Nate Seattle at best was deliberate and efficient.

Aldridge said. "We feel like we can beat any team. We feel like we can beat the Spurs, Suns, Lakers, Mavericks, whoever any night right now, and we'll still be here when those teams get old and their guys retire. We're going to be here for a long time."

by lee3022 on Aug 12, 2008 12:05 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sprint it is.

The starting point for most fast breaks is at the rim. The ability to grab the rebound and whip it down the court was something that Walton, for example, has mastered. Walton had 4 years of college ball whereas Oden has had one, and in Wooden’s system, he’d pretty much mastered the outlet pass. The addition of Bayless and Fernandez will bring more speed, quickness and finishing to the team. At this point, the Blazers are a different team than last year, although it’s going to take some time and patience for it to become evident. Of the three rookies we expect contributions from, Oden will be the first starter. The rest of the team – Roy, Blake, Webster and Aldridge, will remain the same. Outlaw will continue to be the 6th man and Frye and Pryz will be the 7th and 8th. Bayless and Fernandez will then be integrated into the system. As a result, the skills they bring could take at least 1/2 a season to become clearer, and a full season or even longer to become truly effecitve. Of the two, I suspect that Bayless will be the one two get more early playing time as his defensive abilities appear to make him a better complementary player at this time. Fernandez may very well be used much like Outlaw, in that instant offense may be his early strong point as he can clearly get his shot and his length enables the Blazers, much like is also true of Outlaw, to create mismatches. I still think that the next most critical stage in the Blazers development will come next spring. At that point, we’ll start making decisions about Frye, Diogu and Webster, as we’ll have to sign or trade them if we don’t want to have $37 million in cap holds placed on the Blazers next summer. Right now, it appears that we’re most likely to deal with the SF spot at that time, due to the fact that Blake, Roy and Sergio are signed, and Fernandez and Bayless are rookies. As a result, we can afford to let the Guards develop. Webster, as a result, will be the key to what happens in the spring. If his game steps up another notch, and we feel that he and Outlaw give us the play we want at SF, then thee wi’ll be little trade action regardless of our cap space. We’d simply sign Webster. However, if we decide that we can do better at SF (much as we did in swapping Jack for Bayless), then Webster will likely be a part of a trade, along with either Frye or Diogu. If Frye shows Nate that he can improve his scoring, effectively play the PF position, and provide insurance at center, then he’d be the most likely to be kept – given two way players are more valuable. Webster would be traded because it’s his position that is being upgraded (like Jack), and Diogu would also go because you don’t pay someone $3 million to $4 million to be the third option at any position. These two, combined with cap space, could get us the wing player we may want. And, with the caveat of Oden’s health, we should keep in mind that having twin towers up front (whether Oden/Aldridge or Pryz/Frye), we may well be looking for a quick and speedy reincarnation of Jones who also has a three point shot.

It will be interesting in the Spring, that’s for certain. In my book – the action next year comes down to Webster.

by Eben Calder on Aug 11, 2008 6:27 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You have nailed it

Before i began to write my thoughts on the fast break, I read your comment. Every time I hear about a Blazer fast breaking team I think of the Walton era…This is where you beat people in transition…Walton had the knack of getting the pass down court almost before he rebounded the ball..three other players were at the positions that the transition gave up…this was always by design…the fastest way to get the ball down court is pass, pass, and pass…you get easy hoops because you’ve already beaten the defense…so you don’t necessarily need fancy finishers…The trailers also get better opportunities because the defense is still not set….rebound (from good position defense), outlet pass, speed/quickness = easy baskets. Rudy looks to fit this mold… possibly Aldridge (but he would be a trailer) ...But don’t see many other Blazers that have the goods (Yet)...The system would have to gear up for it and I don’t see the Blazers doing that.
I also think the same thought about Webster…He’s not there yet,so how long do you keep players on potential? i think the Blazers would jump on a 2 for 1 trade, involving Webster, and geared towards filling the 3 spot . It may even be something that would set them up for next year, if they thought they may have someone else in mind (already on the team or a temporary fill, by trade ) to try at this spot….In other words if Webster doesn’t fill their needs and ends up sitting more than playing, he loses value rapidly

by 67 on Aug 11, 2008 8:52 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

LA will lead the team in fast break points

He will be able to leak out more this year with GO. He can straight up run the floor with the best of them. And I expect him to be in top condition with all the work he seems to be doing in the offseason.

by Odynasty on Aug 11, 2008 12:00 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

we have the TO rule now

so we keep them for 5 years.

Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.

by jonestr on Aug 11, 2008 4:25 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Cool analysis but

Paragraph breaks pleeeeaaase?

by joelor on Aug 11, 2008 10:32 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm guessing another reason they didn't run the break

last season was because a fast-break, which requires quick decisions and passes, increases the likelihood of turnovers with a young, inexperienced team and point guards (Blake and Jack) who aren’t adept at that kind of play. We all know how much Nate hates turnovers. I think the plan has been to take things one step at a time, not give the players more than they can handle while they mature. I’d say the plan is working well.

Asked his specialty in the kitchen, Oden paused and said, "Hamburger Helper and tuna fish."

by MiledAnimal on Aug 11, 2008 9:17 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think you guessed right

You don’t want to throw too much at young, developing players…especially if they have not come through training in their college years.. it is so different now for NBA coaches who have to have help and support at developing young players…I would think the Blazers long term goal would be to develop a team that will get some easy baskets (you have to have easy ones to win consistently over the long haul…also to keep the other team from taking your half court options away). You simply need to have a flexible team… and gearing towards that is harder, and takes more patience than it did in the past…..Good defense with turnovers is another route to easy baskets.

by 67 on Aug 11, 2008 9:39 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Running of the Mouth

Some random thoughts about running:

Rebounding starts the break, especially if you can pass to mid-court. You have to develop a mindset to find an open team-mate rather than smother the ball after you rebound it.

Magic Johnson if he didn’t rebound it himself, always came back for the ball. If you are the best break dribbler, come back and get the ball. It doesn’t do you any good to run down the floor if nobody can get it down to you.

Jerome Kersey was never a great runner with the ball. But he could definitely finish. You shouldn’t always expect the SF to be the break starter. Go with what you got.

This team may have to rely on more passing then dribbling if they want to run. Which means they will have to really work on spacing and knowing their roles.

by ralphzillo on Aug 11, 2008 9:21 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Jerome Kersey

That’s a good point. Dave alluded to the Rip City teams of the early 90’s but they didn’t use a SF to start their breaks. I watched a couple throwback games this weekend and it was Drexler or Porter starting the breaks and everyone but Duckworth finishing them.

by MavetheGreat on Aug 11, 2008 2:03 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The difference is

Kersey had Drexler and Porter, either of whom could run the middle or fill a wing. That was a different team and a different pair of guards.

—Dave

by Dave on Aug 11, 2008 4:55 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

But

didn’t you suggest that our guards would be at the top of the key and therefore should be ahead of the break rather than waiting to receive the ball?

I guess I’m unclear about a couple things: 1) Why the shooting guard would be more likely than the point guard to be at further from the defensive basket. Because the point guard has penetrated? Roy drive more than our point guards. 2) Why it worked for the Rip City Guards and wouldn’t work for Roy/Blake or Rudy/Bayless

by MavetheGreat on Aug 11, 2008 5:08 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sure

As it stands right now the shooting guard would be farther downcourt than the point guard in a break situation because the shooting guard would release first while the point guard hangs back to receive the ball and bring it upcourt. The alternative would be having the shooting guard hang back while the point guard releases. With our specific players the choice is between Blake hanging back while Roy breaks out and Roy hanging back while Blake breaks out. I’m guessing on average the former would be better than the latter. Roy could sure score and pass while leading the break but I’m not sure him passing to Steve is better than him receiving passes from Steve in a running situation.

The penetration thing also has something to do with it as well but it doesn’t necessarily have to be that way. Sometimes the SG penetrates and the PG doesn’t.

The advantage the early 90’s Blazers had was two guards who were deadly threats to facilitate or finish. You didn’t want Drexler or Porter coming at you on the run because either could bust your chops. You never needed Kersey to run it down because you had those guys and it didn’t matter which one touched the ball first on the break.

The Blazers could have a similar deal if Bayless ends up playing with Roy but we’re not there yet. Blake is a great passer and a catch-and-shoot guy but not a real threat to score with the ball in his hands (or really that much from the wing either unless he shoots the three off of the catch). If I’m the opposition I play for the ball to fall into Blake’s hands no matter where he is on the break and I take my chances cutting him off when he tries to score. I’m not running down Steve here. He’s probably adequate on the break. But I’d like to be devastating and he’s just not the same threat with the ball in his hands as the finishers.

You could mitigate some of Blake’s shortcomings and the need for ANYBODY to stay downcourt with a small forward who could rebound the ball and key the break himself. In this case as soon as you see Player X going for a rebound it’s an automatic jailbreak…one on each wing and the SF in the middle. In essence you’d re-create the Blazers’ double-threat of the 90’s years just with a SG and SF instead of a PG and SG. Actually counting Blake you’d have three guys who could bring it up which would create all kinds of trouble.

I suspect this is low on the overall priority list, however. It’s more of a "gee whiz…this would be nice" thing, providing another template for a possible future SF should we decide to make changes at that position. I also thought it was kind of ironic that one of the nicer players to have on this team would have been the one who didn’t work out.

—Dave

by Dave on Aug 11, 2008 5:40 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The eventual solution

by the way, will probably not be another small forward but rather more of Bayless and Fernandez running.

—Dave

by Dave on Aug 11, 2008 5:41 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

How about working on our big men kicking the ball up front after a rebound?

Or are you specifically discussing steals and rebounds close to the top of the key?

Odenied: Coach, I promise I wasn't running hard ...

by Norsktroll on Aug 11, 2008 6:12 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That will come too.

In fact that will be the norm. I believe Oden will be good at it as well. It’ll be interesting to see if Oden can master the longer outlet passes.

—Dave

by Dave on Aug 11, 2008 6:37 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Got it

That makes sense, and I agree that Blake would be potentially the worst finisher on our starting five (I’m not intending to say I think he couldn’t do it, just not as well as the other four). Yet I’ve heard a lot of talk about how Aldridge runs better than any PF in the league. That ought to add to our numbers on occasion, especially considering how much we love the high pick and roll.

So if we assume that Roy and Blake are the only two guys capable of handling the ball, but Blake is the only one we wouldn’t want finishing, that means when Blake has the ball the defense tries not to allow him to pass to anyone else. Then, as you’re suggesting, the defense tries to cut him off at the last second. That seems like the point that a pass should be made anyway. You wait to pass until you get the defense to commit. Sure, he might be in the air, but if Steve can’t pass in that situation, he shouldn’t be a PG.

I guess all that to say I suspect that that won’t be the biggest thing keeping us from being a fast breaking team.

by MavetheGreat on Aug 11, 2008 6:45 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No Jack!!

OK, I tended to be a Jarrett Jack defender. I thought his ability to penetrate, draw fouls, and hit the foul shots late in games was responsible for a bunch of Blazer victories. And the guy played with a lot of heart. But Bayless should replicate all those contributions and then some. More importantly: Bayless CAN’T POSSIBLY be as bad at running a fast break as Jack was. Whatever the gene is that enables you to make good split-second decisions in transition, Jarrett lacks it. He seemed to ALWAYS make the wrong choice. Most often, he just bulled his way to the hoop, often missing, fumbling the ball away, or getting called for a charge.

So as much as I liked Jarrett, this is going to be a case of addition by subtraction; the Blazers fast break will automatically be better this season. Add Oden (gobbling rebounds & outletting the ball, freeing LMA to utilize his speed) and Bayless & Rudy, and this team should make a big leap forward in the breaking dept.

"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla

by hurryup09 on Aug 11, 2008 10:08 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If Bayless is better than Jack

isnt that just a case of subtracting one positive number and then adding on a bigger one? For true addition by subtraction just look at the ZBO trade or trades involving Ricky Davis.

Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.

by jonestr on Aug 11, 2008 4:28 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Webster would be the perfect fit for this

If he could just get those handles a little better. He’s a decent rebounder, at least he seems to get more boards out of that position than Travis does. But I’d like to see the break started by our guards picking up a few steals now and then, that’s the best way to break. Also, blocked shots work well sometimes. :)

by MattyDread on Aug 11, 2008 10:55 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hypothesis is a little off

What I mean is if it were in fact true that the weakness or “gray area” the Blazers have has to do with not having players that can “facilitate” the fast break, than we truly would have problems on a much much larger scale than simply not being to properly execute a fast break.

In its simplest terms, the fast break starts on the defensive end with the defensive rebound where the ball is outlet to a wing player or a guard who can quickly distribute the ball to the players who have already took off towards their basket. As you alluded to, the rebounding aspect of this has been an issue in the past. If my memory serves we were near the bottom in defensive rebounding last season. All of this changes with Oden on the court. I don’t mean to make Oden out to be a remedy for all that ails us or a cure for the common inept fast break, to be sure he will make mistakes and let us down. Your best or favorite player always will. That said, everything still changes with Oden on the court.

I don’t see us having a problem with players not being able to facilitate the fast break. If you’re an NBA player and you can’t pass well enough or pick your positions on defense to beat your opponent down court you shouldn’t be playing in the NBA. Period. We simply never worked on it in practice last year because Nate never really bought in to last year’s team being that style of team, or to more specific, a team that he felt could run the fast break consistently without losing the shooting match. This year all of that changes with Oden.

by ELLEVEN on Aug 11, 2008 2:22 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Who care if they run.

I want them to win. If they end up as a middle of the pack or even bottom third team when measured against running statistics, I don’t care. The ability to run is not a particularly good indicating correlator of winning.

A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have.
........Thomas Jefferson

The most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the
government and I'm here to help.' "
- Ronald Reagan

by timg56 on Aug 11, 2008 2:57 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Steve Blake

with all due respect Dave, I would like to disagree with you about Blake being a half court pg. I point to his Denver numbers to support this as Denver does not run a lot of half court plays and the ones they do run are just isos for AI or Carmelo, so the only way Steve was raking up up those 6.6 apg was by running things in transition or throwing lobs to Camby and possibly KMart if he was not injured all the time. I should mention that throwing lobs will probably be an important part of the offense this year as it will be an easy way to get points for Oden against guys not named tyson chandler.

I would definitely be interested in what others have to say about this so please chime in on Blake’s ability to run the fastbreak.

Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.

by jonestr on Aug 11, 2008 4:36 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I agree

Blake is more of a versatile guard than people give him credit for. Alluding to his time in Denver seems astute based on the way Denver runs. He’s sharp and makes good decisions which would help a fast break if he was handling the ball.

by MavetheGreat on Aug 11, 2008 5:02 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Steals/Deflections

Even with improved rebounding next year I think it’ll be difficult to run a traditional fast break via rebound/outlet. Going 90 feet directly is tough without a traditional point/facilitator like Nash or Paul. Brandon makes very good decisions but is a pace controller not a pace pusher. He has mentioned this himself and wants to push pace more, but I think its difficult for a 6-6” 230lb guy to do this consistently.

However, the best way to key the break is by a steal. Going from the hash mark or half court directly to the rim is much easier. It is here that Rudy may help a great deal. He already has a knack for steals, and is a 3 or 4 threat guy in the open court able to shoot from distance, handle well enough, get to the rim or find other people. Granted his containment D needs work.

Oden obviously is a key here by helping to allow the perimeter guys to gamble a bit more defensively (lets hope not too much in Rudy’s case). This style would suit Brandon, Bayless, Rudy & Outlaw (although I’d prefer he only caught it and finished). I like Martel, but he is so one-dimensional at present (and even that dimension can be streaky). Lets hope he can develop some handle and get in the mix.

by JMoon on Aug 11, 2008 4:40 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well said

I have remembered the USA team saying they have to create turnovers to get fast break points. With the athletes we have and with the bigs down low perhaps Coach Nate will allow our wings and guards to go for steals more often.

Earlier it was asked about Seattle under Coach Nate getting fast breaks (here) we saw there that he did not run and, of course, he did not have an Oden. Seattle ranked 7th, 10th, 12th, and 24th (oldest first 2001-2002 through 2004-2005) in steals as well. In his best year (2004-2005 he did not get steals (24th), rebounds (27th DR), or shoot well (19th FG%) but what they did do was not turn the ball over to other teams – especially steals against. They were more than 100 steals better than every other division winner that year except San Antonio (86 fewer) in opponent steals .

Does the success Coach Nate had in Seattle color his thinking about Portland? He certainly had emphasized it as opponents steals have dropped from 700 in the year before Nate to 498 last year (better than all the division leaders except NO and Det).

All this to say the steals may increase and trigger fast breaks but we better plan on rebounding for breaks as well.

Aldridge said. "We feel like we can beat any team. We feel like we can beat the Spurs, Suns, Lakers, Mavericks, whoever any night right now, and we'll still be here when those teams get old and their guys retire. We're going to be here for a long time."

by lee3022 on Aug 12, 2008 12:54 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sergio Rodriguez

That is your answer. When he’s out on the court we can run with the best of them. Nate putting Sergio on the court is a different story. There was absolutely no reason for Jack to get minutes over Sergio, yet it happened time and time again. 95% of Sergio’s minutes last year came with Jarrett Jack as the teams SG. Talk about set up for success (not). Subtract Jack and add either Rudy or Bayless and its a whole different story.

by as11osu on Aug 11, 2008 5:10 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I used to get so annoyed when Nate put Sergio and Jack on the floor together....

What was even worse about that tandem was that half the time Nate would let Jack run the point and stuff Sergio in the corner. If you aren’t going to let Sergio do his thing(handle the ball and find people) why even put him out there? I used to get so angry about that, but now it won’t matter because our team has surpassed Sergio with the additions of Bayless and Rudy and Sergio will likely be stuck on the bench unless he comes back with something resembling an nba jumpshot and something resembling nba defense. I sure hope he does though, Sergio is still one of my favorite blazers…

RUDY > MJ

by myemic23 on Aug 11, 2008 5:20 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I dont see why

Bayless/Rudy alone puts Sergio on the bench when he has very little skill overlap with these 2. If either prove incapable of bringing the ball up under pressure and you dont want Roy wasting his energy bringing the ball up then the only answers are Blake and Sergio. This might be a real possibility as at Bayless dribbles with his head down and may try and break pressure by dribbling through it (his right handedness will also make things tough.) which can easily lead to a TO. Rudy is tall and usually taller guys tend to have a higher dribble which is less easily controlled so he may also have trouble bringing the ball up.

Man I hope Sergio gets some minutes, That dudes game is awesome.

Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.

by jonestr on Aug 11, 2008 10:46 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I was going to cut and paste

what jonestr just wrote and tack my name to it, but thought it might just be easier to say, +1.

I remember telling him how impressed I was with a player during summer league. In Avery's unique voice, he replied, "Marc, it's summer league." I

by TwoDeep on Aug 12, 2008 4:35 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Someone has to initiate the break, which Blazer is it? It won't be Roy!

On the ‘77 teams, we had Walton AND Lucas rebounding and triggering the fastbreak to pg’s Johnny Davis, Dave Twardzik, and Lionel Hollins. The finishing piece was the fleet footed and always hustling Bobby Gross.

Remembering that team, I don’t really recall Walton or Lucas running the lanes. Their job was to defend, block shots, and rebound and to make long outlet passes to half court to a waiting Hollins and usually blazing Johnny D.!

The Drexler teams really didn’t become explosive until the Blazers acquired Buck Williams. Again, a big man committed to defending and rebounding the ball. That team had versatile guards in Drexler (dribbles with his head down, no left hand, and to this day still kills me!) and the multi talanted Terry Porter, and of course, the high flying Jerome Kersey filling the lanes for thundering dunks!

Both teams were committed to pushing the ball and looking for fast break opportunities. The ‘77 squad got it done with a HOF center in Walton whose defense and outlet passing is still the standard for big men in the NBA.

The Drexler teams got it done with tremendous perimeter defense from Clyde, Terry, and Jerome getting into passing lanes and making fast breaks opportunities off of turnovers and mistakes by their opponents!

For ‘77 it was Walton triggering the break. In the ‘90’s it was Drexler pushing the ball. Who on this current roster has the will to push the ball?

So, who is the identy of this team? It’s Brandon Roy, correct!

So, do you honestly see Brandon Roy pushing the ball and initiating fast breaks for this team? I have been watching Brandon’s play for two years now and I love his game but I don’t see a fast break player. He admits himself that his coaches going back to AAU have always pushed him have more pace in his game? Hmmm, pace? Aren’t they really saying they want Brandon to get up and down the court faster? You know, like a Fast Break?

I really do not believe this is Roy’s strength! Yes, I watched the All Star game and yes Roy did get up and down in that game. But he said it himself, many of the rebounds that came off the boards, he was chasing only to get beaten to the ball by his All Star team mate, Chris Paul. If Roy had gotten to the ball first, would he had pushed the ball like Paul? Based off what I have seen for the past two years, I say not! He would have walked the ball up the court and started a half court offense!

And, remind me again, how much defense is played in the All Star games? It’s like PTB fans think because Brandon got multiple layups in that game, he was fast breaking madman running down the floor! News flash, NO ONE plays defense in those All Star games, it suppose to be a show, not a contest! Until the last few minutes, nobody contest shots! Of course there are fast break opportunities for EVERYONE, not just Brandon Roy!

So, in my opinion, if not Roy, who? Yes, Oden can rebound and Block shots? As far as an outlet pass, I have no idea if he is capable of initiating the break? Lets hope so!

What about Blake? Probably not, he’s a half court guy! No doubt Aldridge wants to run but he needs someone to start the break so he can finish! Webster or Outlaw, both are better suited to be finishers. So, who pushes the ball?

The best candidates are probably Sergio or Bayless If Nate really is committed to pushing the ball then he will need to give Sergio another hard look because this is the strongest part of Sergio’s game. Bayless has the fire and determination to push the ball but does he have the willingness to give it up when it’s time to convert? With the likes of Roy, Aldridge, Outlaw, Webster, Fernandez, and even Oden, on the wings, will Bayless give up the ball? In the case of Sergio, again, this is his greatist strength!

Please don’t get me wrong! I love Roy’s game! I just think he is best suited for a half court game! However, if we have a committment to run, he is more than capable receiving long outlet passes and creating for himself or his other team mates. But, when I watch him play, I see a guy who want to slow the game down to HIS pace, and create the best opportunity for himself or his team mates by penetrating and kicking to the open guy!

by RIP CITY on Aug 12, 2008 1:01 AM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Fast break back burner

The fast break for this years team is , most likely on the back burner, simmering . We can make many comparable scenarios, but for now it’s a long way off. You have to have quickness, speed, good fundamental “D”, and faith in your teammates…As the season plays out and depending on who they play, there may be genuine attempts at running…I’m sure the team does realize that they will need easy hoops to consistantly win games over the long haul, so they have to develop this mindset as they work towards a team identity…..You need all 5 players on board, so one single key or player to trigger a break, is not solution.
One other thought (Nate does not like turnovers and most coaches don’t); The 77 team turned the ball over quite a bit, but was always on the plus side in the final outcome. Sometimes they would turn the ball over 20 times, but would still beat teams up by running up their backs. The 90’s teams turned the ball over too. Their running style was also quite a bit different than the 77 team…...The fast break for this team, if any, will be a development of what players they have. They like what they have, but this season will be a proving ground for whats in their future.
IMO …...We need the easy hoops…good rebounding,defense,quickness,conditioning and speed will get us there

by 67 on Aug 12, 2008 10:57 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

A site by Blazer fans, for Blazer fans
Start posting about the Trail Blazers »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Small
Nicolas Batum interview in REVERSE (french mag) of July
Small
HAVE WE LOST OUR MINDS
N1313394467_27679_4745_small
JD: Happy 4th, Welcome home Iraqi Vets!
N1313394467_27679_4745_small
Hedo Turkgolu: 7 Stages of grief (now 14)
Small
The Official I _______ Turkoglu Thread (UPDATED w/Poll)

Recent FanPosts

100_4977_small
JD 7/5
Small
Creating an Offensive Advantage
Small
Interesting take. What are your thoughts?
Small
David Lee begets a SF in the Future
Peacock_small
Dimitris Diamantidis
Small
David Lee? Nate Robinson? general Panic, what gives?
Iraq_christmas__small
Why not Roy?
Small
Here's the trade we NEED!(Wonder if Blazers will hire me?)
Small
Commitment
Small
The pg we need may already be on the roster

Post_icon New FanPost All FanPosts Carrot-mini

FanShots

Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.

Recommended FanShots

Greedo Turkoglu



"E lo tolo Pritchard????"
See Ya Later Hedo! It was fun while it lasted :)
fooled us!
Hedo Rejects Deal, Ends Talks
Hedo in red and black. Bustabucket whipped out the Photoshop

Recent FanShots

They do not teach pronouns at the Toronto Sun
New Canzano column re: Hedo
Think he'd sign for veteran's minimum?
The Ron Artest Soap Opera Reviewed (by timbo)
Monty Williams might be a top candidate for Wolves
How going after Lee makes sense
Blazers strike back, switch D-League co-affiliate from Toronto to Denver
Nothing to do with basketball
Just tired of Hedo talk
Blazers will talk with David Lee's agent

Post_icon New FanShot All FanShots Carrot-mini


Editors

Kitten_small Dave

Ben_small Ben.

Moderators

Pict1126_small -ken

Polar_bear_small jorga

151054601_tp_small prezofdeath

Small usmcr3049

Jesus_icon_i_small T Darkstar

Wallpaper_small geoffm

Official Partner of Yahoo! Sports