Why it should matter to you
by einman77 on Jul 7, 2008 11:36 PM PDT
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PrintIn the recent weeks there has been some discussion about fan conduct, stemming from the impromptu goodbye celebration some fans had for Jack. There seems to be a lot of people who think “Who cares? It doesn’t bother me nor does it have anything to do with me.” I would like to share my thoughts on why it does affect all of us and why it should matter before the sands of time make this discussion irrelevant, or another incident or buildup occurs. This is a complex issue, so it’s a long one. I will also touch on the use of Pritch-slap a little because it fits in nicely with this and is closely related. I apologize for my long-windedness and for any redundancy as I felt it necessary to paint a comprehensive picture. I’ll start big and work my way down.
First there is the viewpoint from other fans. I know there was a post about this recently, and a lot of comparison was made to the Spurs and how they don’t really have people giving too much of an opinion on them despite being repeat champions. While both teams are clean as whistles (and hopefully it stays that way), this still won’t be our fate. The Spurs just outplay their opponents, make their foul shots, play team defense, make the right play, punch out and go home. Also, Duncan runs from the spotlight. That won’t be our fate. With Outlaw, Oden and Bayless (assuming all goes well there) on this team, we will play some in your face type of ball. People will have no choice but to love us or hate us. This team could be the Bulls of the next generation, having kids jumping on board the band wagon (along with your usual band wagoneers) and choosing this team to become a fan of because this is the kind of basketball they want to see. GO is also much less camera shy and a much more handsome man for his age than TD. The media will have plenty of coverage of him. With all this attention, there are a lot of reasons that people love us or hate us. What you don’t want is when people start talking about things other than basketball. I think we are pretty safe from someone on this team jumping into the stands for a fight, spitting on a fan, smoking a doob on I-5, or any of that fun stuff. Will they hate us because of the fan base? Before last Thursday I would have said “no, why would they?” I don’t think what happened was a big deal in the national spotlight, but it was only a draft party. If the Pacers come back next season and the fans start chanting “PRITCH SLAP, PRITCH SLAP, …..” after a JJ turnover, well, we aren’t going to win over many kids from Indiana with loose affiliations that way, especially when they go in the next room and say “Mommy, what’s a Pritchslap?” Moreover, we get the media and the national spotlight talking about something other than the basketball we are playing, which is usually not a good thing in the NBA, as any Blazers fan should be able to attest to. That stuff affects more than just national opinion (more on this below). We can’t help if they love us or hate us or not, but we do have some control over why they would.
The second piece of this is how our behavior affects the team. When Eagles fans cheered when Michael Irving was carried off the field on a stretcher, the media didn’t question the fans about what it was like nearly as much as they questioned the team. Is that fair to put this team (any team for that matter, but especially this one) in that type of position? How do you think they would feel? Maybe a little betrayed? Maybe like they are holding up more than their fair share of the bargain? It would certainly take the focus off of basketball. How do you think Jack feels right now about all the hard work he put in to this team? In all my days of watching sports, I have never seen a community and its players so connected. From the invites to meet draftees, to the personal messages from GO during his rehab, this team has put a lot of effort into connecting with the fans. You can certainly feel that connection too when you go into the Rose Garden. Last season was phenomenal at home, and I’m sure the team could feel it as much as the fans could. Why would you not want to hold up your end of this relationship? Using the above mentioned chant as an example, let’s take a look at a player interaction during the game:
Roy: Yo JJ, how are things in Indy?
JJ: Pretty good. Things are working out well here. I’m still disappointed that I had to leave here though. I mean you guys are 37-0 already.
Roy: It’s not the same without you.
(chant starts)
JJ: (shoots a sideways glance and and curls his lips a little)
Roy: Yo baby, forget them.
That’s right, Roy said ‘forget them’, talking about the fans. Talking about you. Whether you were there or not, participated or not, a slight on the fans is a slight on you and his perception of all the Blazers fans changes a little. He, or someone else on the team, could have already said this. The more that the players feel they have to stop thining about the fanbase, the more it happens.
That brings me to how it affects you. If the team had to start ignoring the fans, they wouldn’t be as receptive to the appreciation we are showing them right now. That would in turn rub off on you and this amazing atmosphere at the garden would be tarnished. In fact, even though Jack is gone, I would be surprised if the players were still as happy with the fans, even if it's just a little bit. Stuff like that could come up in retrospect if another incident were to occur. Also, with marginal infractions, the margin then shifts if not corrected, leading to more or more severe offenses. Would you want to take your kids to a game where all the people are acting like, um, appropriate spot for a curse, inappropriate website (and post)? I mean we have a 13 year old right here who could need our help getting his parents to take him to games. How about bringing your wife or girlfriend, or boyfriend out and having to try and ignore or explain the other people around you? Think they would want to do it again if you were trying to turn them on to the Blazers, or even better, trying to present an argument to buy season tickets? What about if your son or daughter talks about how he Pritch-slapped another kid in a pokemon trade at school?
I’m not advocating the employment of the thought police here. I don’t think that saying “Shut up” every time someone boos is appropriate. I personally don’t have any problem with people showing their appreciation or dissatisfaction in their own way. I’ll tell you, I’m no saint at sporting events, but I try not to cross over into serious disrespect. I do consider taunting other teams and sparring comments with appropriate fans of the other teams as part of the game. If you’re just screaming the whole time at a guy wearing a Clippers cap who hasn’t said a word the whole game it’s a little different than someone who is engaging in the banter. As for the players, let’s face it, Jared Dudley probably won’t get a lot of catcalls if he makes a mistake. If K*be does, he will. Why? Because deep down somewhere we respect his game and the threat that he poses so much that we want to throw him off. Well, that, and he’s the anti-christ. The times that warrant something outside of a cheer and let cheer policy is on the rare occasions when it crosses over into overly disrespectful. The chant is the most likely thing I could think of as an example and a reasonable step away from that song, but it really could be any number of things. This is just food for thought so you have a chance to really think about this before the Oregonian writes an article about it the morning after.
Prior to me writing this, you already have two factors working in your favor. One, the organization is doing a tremendous job of creating a positive atmosphere. You just have to follow their lead. Two, the arena will have a lot of full and partial season ticket holders next season, creating a lot of accountability and an opportunity to foster that positive culture. If someone close to you is joining in with something ridiculous, a simple “dude” a squint of the eyes and a shrug of the shoulders, for example, would do. That isn’t uncomfortable for anyone, and there would likely be a bit of mutual appreciation if that moment ended peacefully. I bet if anyone on this site sang that song, they feel now feel a little ashamed if they got caught up in the moment and joined in, and would have appreciated such a gesture. That shame would be nothing compared to if we were put in the national spotlight for an incident. IN the case where someone is being so obnoxious and persistent that you feel you have to say something, you’re probably not alone. Conversely, if someone does step up to someone else being obnoxious and you feel the same way, it’s not a terrible thing to give them some support so the offender doesn’t feel like it’s just one uptight person against them trying to have a good time.
All in all when this type of behavior is occouring, the only people it doesn’t bother is the people who are being disrespectful. If you think about it, it's because they aren’t taking other people’s perspective into consideration. That is why I feel it is alright to let them know that their behavior is bothering you.
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Good post
One comment before bed:
If my kid said he Pritch-slapped a kid in a Pokemon trade at school, I would high-five him. A shrewd business sense and a nose for a good pun? That’s ice cream material.
But yes, I think showing a little class can’t hurt. We don’t want to be Patriots fans here…
Kevin Pritchard is a 4.0 Draft Day Student
cheap shot
patriots fans are classy. little whiners like tomlinson make it seem as though the patriots are classless.
by PippenAintEasy on Jul 8, 2008 9:57 AM PDT up reply actions
no boston fans are classy.. cmon now
I remember the good old days. The Rasta Monsta days.
by GreatOden'sRaven on Jul 8, 2008 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Exactly.
Red Sox fans are the sole reason that I cannot in good conscience root for them. Last night, I was even pulling for the Twins. The Twins! That made me feel like less of a man, but it was better than the alternative.
One of Two Official Blazer's Edge Poets Laureate for the 2008-2009 Season
I will miss Jarrett Jack, but getting Jerryd Bayless is helping ease my pain.
by T Darkstar on Jul 8, 2008 5:53 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Speak up, I can't hear you!
.............................. the air conditioner is too loud…
"You don't live by the jumpshot, you die by the jumpshot." ---Charles Barkley, 2/7/08
Exactly.
Red Sox fans are the sole reason that I cannot in good conscience root for them. Last night, I was even pulling for the Twins. The Twins! That made me feel like less of a man, but it was better than the alternative.
One of Two Official Blazer's Edge Poets Laureate for the 2008-2009 Season
I will miss Jarrett Jack, but getting Jerryd Bayless is helping ease my pain.
Well, I didn't need to post it twice.
Now it feels superfluous.
One of Two Official Blazer's Edge Poets Laureate for the 2008-2009 Season
I will miss Jarrett Jack, but getting Jerryd Bayless is helping ease my pain.
I feel that
as in most cases, the certain vocal few make the reputation for the many. Most of the posters here and fans out there did not hate Jack and want to rub it in as was heard on Courtside live at the Rose Garden when the trade was announced.
I did not like the way Jack played sometimes but I still wish him well and hope that he has success in the future, but we are in the business of winning basketball games and Bayless will be able to bring more talent to the table than Jack, true there are intangeables, such as Jacks fire, leadership, toughness and determination, but we do not yet know if Bayless can bring that to the table.
Regardless of how we feel about Jack as a player, we cannot demean him as a person as he seemed to be a great guy and teammate and did not deserve any of the chants that he recieved and I hope that when Indy comes into town, he gets the start or when he does check in for the first time he will get a cheer from the crowd. If I was there, I would lead the cheers for him, because as much as he did sometimes frustrate me with his play, he still deserves this from us for the time he spent with us, he was not part of the Jailblazers he came in played hard and did not bring a loaded gun on an airplane, speed dorn Broadway, bring tinfoil covered weed on a plane, or like fighting dogs in the backyard.
Jack was kinda like the girlfriend that just did not work out and you just kinda parted ways, she didnt cheat on you or you on her, things just fell apart and both parties decided to part ways.
As for our upcoming success, people always hate winners, simple as that. Rather people will choose to cheer for the underdog, as it gives them hope that they someday may achieve that level of success. As of right now would you rather have 100% of people like you? Or 50% hate you and 50% love you? Winning tends to bring out the latter result, especially if, as we all hope, we become a dynastic team. I do somewhat sense that we are somewhat rubbing it in other peoples faces a bit and we are starting to transition from the liking phase to the hate/love phase of our team. We all feel very strongly and our love for our team grows after each brilliant move and successful season, but the brighter the picture, the darker the negative and we may inavdertantly end up creating a upswelling of negativity directed towards our team and their success if (and when) that time comes.
As much as it sucks right now and I hate to admit it, we have not done jack yet and have not even produced a wining season for a few years. Yes next year will be a winning season and I fully expect to be in the playoffs making a semi-deep run as well, but until that day happens, we have nothing but a bunch of potential on our team. What we have going for us is that:
1. We have a coach who seems to be able to overachieve with the talent he has
and
2. We have players that will simply outwork everyone else in the league
That is what is great about how KP has arranged this team, full of hard working, team oriented guys that happen to have a ton of talent as well. It is one thing to be talented and another to be hard working, but the two together are unstoppable.
The unfortunate thing is that we all know how hard of workers KP has brought in and how good the coaching staff is in preparing these guys to go out and play hard, but other fans do not see this and have no idea the caliber of player we have. WE overachieved last year and we will over achieve this year as well IMO.
56wins and the NW title 3rd seed in the playoffs.
56 wins!
thats one game short of the 1-seed.
how about 49 wins and the 7th seed…
by PippenAintEasy on Jul 8, 2008 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions
Jarret Jack
I loved the way he played. He played hard, and he played to win. His attitude was awesome. Sometimes he made mistakes, but I think people gave him a harder time than he earned. I look forward to cheering him next season, if only for a game.
wow
I just can’t see us being better than the battle tested Jazz next year, though I was thrilled to see us play so well against them head to head in ‘07-’08.
I think we’ll we in the 45-50 range depending on how quickly we gell, but since incorporating 3 rookies into the mix figures to be a challenge, I’m still taking the low end of that range. 45 wins and a fight for the 8th seed.
We’ll be right there in the mix for the division title in ‘09-’10, the first of many great races against DWill and Utah.
Boomshakalaka
I think
we’ll get 55 but Utah gets 57 this year. 09-10 we surpass them.
Oden’s incorporation will be easier than most rookies, because a) he spent a year with these guys, so interpersonal relationships are established b) defensive schemes will be unchanged, he just plugs right into Joel’s role and c) we don’t have to run much offense through him, he’ll score in double figures just on offensive rebounds and easy dishes.
We don’t need Greg to be what he’s going to be in three years for him to be a huge upgrade. All we need him to do is be Joel with the ability to catch the ball and shoot free throws. That doesn’t take much integration, he’s been watching Joel be Joel all year. Do that, and add Joel to the second unit, and we have a huge upgrade.
Other people don't have as much practice at being wrong as I do -- HT, timbo
I was personally disgusted...
...with the raucous cheer when it was announced that Jack was being traded at the draft party.
I looked over at those tables and thought, “that isn’t Portand… that isn’t the Blazers…”
Well stated
Other people don't have as much practice at being wrong as I do -- HT, timbo
I recommend also.
Can we officially retire the term “Pritch-slap”? According to both Barrett and Wheels, KP hates that term. If he doesn’t like it, why are we disrespecting him?
Koponen - PG of the future. Book it.
mainly because its funny
or at least was funny. but of course once the mainstream media hears about it, as with everything else, the joke has run its course already
I remember the good old days. The Rasta Monsta days.
by GreatOden'sRaven on Jul 8, 2008 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions
I hate that term too.
Why do anything to aggravate all the other NBA team officials that KP has to deal with? It’s stupid , really, and it’s my feeling BE should have never endorsed it.
HAMSTERDANCE!!!
"You don't live by the jumpshot, you die by the jumpshot." ---Charles Barkley, 2/7/08
I Agree strongly
I just signed up for a membership because I had to speak out about how disappointing the response to Jack’s trade has been.
While I agree that Jack was definitely not one of the pieces we need for a championship team, he could be that for someone else. I mean, the Lakers could certainly have used him. He gives them more fire than Kobe, he’s more explosive than anyone on their team but Kobe, and he’d have been tough enough to hang with the Celtics. Turnovers? He’d probably have the least on Lakers during the past finals. And all of this is ignoring the team spirit and hard work Jack gives. While Jack might not have been able to single handedly turn around the attitudes of entitlement and defeatism seen so often seen on that team, I think it is easy to see he could’ve been far more effective in giving the Lakers a chance than Farmar.
Whether you agree with me or not, I still say Jack could be part of a championship team – just not with an already young Blazer squad already filled with slashers, shooters, and good work ethics.
I wish Jack well. He was fun to watch and he was part of turning this team around. For that I thank him.
And “Pritch-slap”? Let’s hold ourselves up to the level of class we see in our players…
by staylost on Jul 8, 2008 11:24 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Why won't this die already?
Fans are fans. Some boo, some cheer, some swear, some sit there and do nothing. When you follow the team, all of those are your right.
As the team plays 50% of its games on the road in hostile environments, they are probably pretty accustomed to the banter. They can either tune it out or let it affect their game. Sure, hearing bad things is worse on your homecourt, but I don’t think that is much of an issue with our current team. I bet JJack, like most former Blazers, gets a warm round of applause… though you’re almost guaranteed to hear some boos. That’s the NBA. If that’s something that bothers the player, he probably doesn’t have the mental toughness to stick in the league.
Personally, I find myself in the middle ground. During a playoff game many moons ago, I sat high in the nose bleeds and yelled my voice gone… sitting a few rows down from me were a bunch of “fans”, groups of 15-17 year old boys and the occasional father figure no less, who not only barely made a sound, but kept looking back at me wondering why I was rooting my backside off. It was a playoff game for crying out loud, stand up and make some noise!
On the other side of this spectrum, I sat next to this total dbag last year who kept dropping super bad words (you know, the four letter variety that start with s and f). I’m not personally offended by obligatory overuse of curses, but even I thought it wasn’t the right place (you know, with kids and all being around).
That said, I find it pretty elitist and condescending for one fan to be telling another fan how to be a fan. If someone is bothering you that much, tell an usher, or move to another seat. If it was a real problem, it would probably be up to the team to address it (perfect example… NFL, late ‘80’s early ‘90’s, highly intense game, Cincinnati hosting someone else [Go Bengals!!!]... the fans are peeved about a bad call and start launching snowballs and beer bottles onto the field of play. The Head Coach Sam Wyche grabs the PA microphone and tells the fans to knock it off or get thrown out.). To postulate that there will be large swaths of fans tarnishing our national image by chanting “Pritchslap” during a game is a biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiig stretch… I don’t buy that happening.
All in all, I actually agree with your sentiment einman77, and I don’t mean to come across as antagonizing… this just seems something of a severly overworked subject that continues to find itself immortalized in the “rec’d fanpost” section. And as for the Pritchslap, it seems to keep being brought back to life by folks who are demanding to see it gone. Let it rest in peace (until the next trade, that is).
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Jul 8, 2008 12:02 PM PDT reply actions
I promise I'll stop
I felt that a comprehensive argument about the importance of keeping the garden a positive environment had to be put forth before this whole thing was put to rest.
I Thought..
I’d already argued every point regarding this issue, but it looks like I was wrong:
GO is also.. a much more handsome man for his age than TD.
Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?? Anybody else think this is a bit askew?
"Well, Travis just showed us that we can go to Travis Outlaw." - Nate McMillan
It's a close race.
TD does look Shrek-ish.
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Jul 8, 2008 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah..
That’s true. It’s more of the “for his age” part that gets me.
Then again, the California Raisins were pretty media-friendly.
"Well, Travis just showed us that we can go to Travis Outlaw." - Nate McMillan
He's joked about it
I don’t think it’s really a sore spot, and kind of adds to his character. If it seems out of place, I wanted to keep it kind of light. I think slightly off color comments are a big step away from complete disrespect. I’m not advocating that we become the prudes of the NBA as someone once said.
Why do you guys think Greg is ugly? He's not ugly, he's a good looking young man
who looks older than his chronological age right now. I’ve said this before, when Greg is 50 or 60 he’s going to look much the same as he does today. He’s got great eyes, strong, regular features, good,straight, white teeth and the body of a futuristic warrior. I’m sure many of you young guys would settle for that yourselves when you look at yourself in the mirror. I don’t think any of the women at the Bedge have indicated that they think Greg is ugly. Hmmmmm.
"Besides, AnntheFan will be here any minute to #25 you." T Darkstar
by annthefan on Jul 8, 2008 6:34 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I said he was a good looking mand for his age
I never said he was ugly. But I do have the body of a prehistoric giant platypus-human monster on steriods, so I can’t say I would want to see him when I gaze upon my reflection.
Haha! Sorry Einman. My comment wasn't really directed at you. I'm just feeling hot and cranky.
I have heard that opinion expressed pretty often, however, but I don’t agree with it at all. And, interestingly, I’ve only heard men express the opinion that Greg is ugly.
"Besides, AnntheFan will be here any minute to #25 you." T Darkstar
+1
Recommended, just for saying that Greg has “the body of a futuristic warrior.” I think he’s very handsome, in a timeless way. His features could be described as “monolithic,” and when I say that, I actually intend it as a compliment. He has been called Treebeard before, which I think is also a handsome and positive comparison. And also, he’s a futuristic warrior. In addition to his teeth and features, I’m pretty sure he shoots lasers out of his eyes and missiles from his forearms.
< /war >
I have seen far uglier men at 50
We’ll see how he looks when he reaches social security at the end of his rookie check
I remember the good old days. The Rasta Monsta days.
by GreatOden'sRaven on Jul 8, 2008 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Shrek-ish
Shrek-ish, I say. If he were green, he would be cast as the lead in the live motion picture version of Shrek. That, my friend, is not a good thing.
Rarr, I’m an ogre!!!
Playing basketball... is like playing poker while running on a treadmill at full speed with people swinging a Louisville Slugger at you. -Dave on 95.5 The Game
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Jul 8, 2008 6:04 PM PDT up reply actions
two peas in a pod
Playing basketball... is like playing poker while running on a treadmill at full speed with people swinging a Louisville Slugger at you. -Dave on 95.5 The Game
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Jul 8, 2008 6:06 PM PDT up reply actions
My experience with the situation
When I saw the Knicks in their only Rose Garden appearance last year, I made sure to cheer loudly for Z-Bo during introductions and their shoot-around. It’s silly to hold grudges against a former player that didn’t choose to leave, but left due to circumstances out of their control.
Yep.
I don’t see why Roy wouldn’t say “forget them” to Sheed and would to Jack. Booing is booing, regardless of your justification or intent.
My girlfriend (wasn’t too familiar with the Blazers) was very put-off when we went to a Pistons game and that transpired. I had to explain to her that Sheed left on.. ahem.. less-than-ideal terms and people were blowing off steam. She didn’t see that as much of an excuse, and I really think she’s right. Booing’s pretty classless, especially when aimed at a person and not a performance.
"Well, Travis just showed us that we can go to Travis Outlaw." - Nate McMillan
I don't think Roy and Sheed are good friends
And he requested that Z-bo leave. JJ was a hard worked on the court and off and a positive presence on the team. If someone disrespects the team or messes up the chemistry (ie. acts in a selfish way) then his team will always hold that against him somewhere and probably won’t really care too much about how that player feels because he has already shown that he didn’t really care too much about them. If the teammates truly cares about each other, they will try and protect each other.
I SWEAR I'm Not Trying to Stir Debate, but..
what we’re talking about is pretty simple: you boo or don’t because of your subjective opinions. Some feel it’s appropriate to boo OKC, some feel it isn’t so. Likewise with Sheed, Jack, etc. Whatever justifications you make for booing or cheering are your own opinions and that’s totally cool with me. What I’ve been saying since this concept was first proposed is that they’re your opinions – just as valid as mine, just as valid as someone who sang “hit the road, Jack”. It seems you’re trying to mold the Blazer fanbase to jive with what aligns with your moral compass, and I think that’s both silly (as you’re not going to change millions of real-world minds here at BEdge) and somewhat self-centered (as you’re not accepting differing interpretations of fandom).
I gots no beef with you, einman, but I think there’s a lot to be said for sitting back and enjoying a team, franchise and cultural phenomenon as it is and appreciating its organic growth rather than trying to harness and muzzle something into what you want it to be. In the meantime, I look forward to the upcoming seasons and will be there to cheer as I see fit and respect your freedom to do the same.
"Well, Travis just showed us that we can go to Travis Outlaw." - Nate McMillan
I'm leaving it up to you
I think it is important not to create a wedge between the team and the fans, especially in this city. But as far as deeming what is aporpriate or inappropriate, you are to make the decision. I just want to show that that little voice in your head that says ‘maybe I should do something’ has some support and validity. You don’t have to do anything at all if you don’t want to. I’m just happy you read this.
Thanks, Yo
I’m leaving it up to you, too. What I’ve been saying all along is that different people have different views and I’m not one to push mine on theirs, but looking back on our conversations it seems I’ve been pushing my “don’t push views on people” view on you. Apologies for any hypocrisy, and keep fighting the good fight.
You know, without pushing your views on peeps. Or whatever.
"Well, Travis just showed us that we can go to Travis Outlaw." - Nate McMillan
No need to appologize
I’m sure you aren’t the only one thinking something along those lines. I welcome other points of view, even if it is competely contardictory to mine and 100% better (I:m not a fan of ‘right’ and ‘wrong’, but that’s a whole other story). Besides, in the last thread I was arguing for an institution of some type of line in the sand. However, after I gave it some thought, I realized nearly everyone was in agreement that the song was over the line, just that no one said anything and let the few represent the many. The misunderstanding about this post is not all your fault fo sho.
Well done
I like recognizing the (unintended, obviously) hypocrisy.
The fact is, in most discussions, we all to some extent “push our views”, don’t we?
You do it, I do it, einman77 does it. What often seems to happen is that when someone pushes a view based on the concept that certain behavior is appropriate or inappropriate, too often they get shot down with “don’t push your views” or “don’t impose your morality”. That’s actually a hypocritical response, because the person saying that is likewise “pushing his view” or “imposing his morality”.
In fact, we all (or most of us, anyway) believe certain views should be pushed, and even imposed. Most of us are quite ok with someone pushing the view that racist behavior is not acceptable. And most of us believe in some standards of morality—we should “impose morality” when it comes to murder and rape.
So the “don’t push your view” or “impose your morality” argument is logically self-defeating. Questions like this need to be discussed 1) on the merits of the view/morality and 2) if found meritorious, on whether it is of sufficient importance to justify imposing it on others.
But there is nothing wrong with advocating certain behavior, challenging people with whether the opposite behavior is inappropriate, and encouraging people to change. We all do it, and we have all probably learned a lot more than we may recognize through such interactions.
Other people don't have as much practice at being wrong as I do -- HT, timbo
Yeah..
Thanks for the tip of the hat. It means a lot coming from you, controller of the universe and all.
I’ll still say, though, that if someone said “I hate popcorn! It’s fattening and salty and gross! No popcorn at Blazer games – let’s all get together to make sure this happens” I’m still going to be more “Dude, shut up” than “Good for you – we all have opinions and that’s what’s fun about diversity”.
On the other hand, I’m all for no rape at Blazer games, so we clearly agree on something.
"Well, Travis just showed us that we can go to Travis Outlaw." - Nate McMillan
Hmm
I notice you said nothing about murder.
Was that:
1) oversight?
2) thinking about Clay Bennett?
3) thinking about specific (or non-specific, for that matter) referees?
4) thinking about certain players who play for a certain team located approximately 1000 miles south of Portland?
I keep trying to tell everyone, I’m not going to control the universe. Just the world. I’m humble, and all. And not only am I humble, I’m good at being humble. Who else do you know that can honestly claim to be good at being humble?
Other people don't have as much practice at being wrong as I do -- HT, timbo
No rape at Blazer games...
is a very, very good idea.
Hey, someone had to say it.
"I love this game!" -Moonbeam, from 'Rollerball' right before he was knocked into a permanent coma
Robrun2 ... Me too!
I’m perplexed by how the general fan base seems to have a need to demean our ex-Blazers. Tearing someone else down must elevate their status’.
Well said.
I, too, am a mildly disgruntled JJ1 fan and will most certainly root for him if I’m at the Indy game in the Rose Garden. I’ll even wear my Jack t-shirt.
I must've missed all the venom
But JJ wasn’t a very good player, and I’m not going to pretend like he was. Miles was somewhat of a loser, and I’m not going to pretend he wasn’t. Zach Randolph was a childish naive fool, and I’m not going to pretend that he wasn’t.
So I don’t know. I believe in being honest despite the consequences.
Blazer Fan
And I disagree there's anything wrong with booing
I don’t understand that sort of mentality at all. Booing is fine. Of course there’s a line where taste becomes lack of taste, but c’mon. You guys are too nice.
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on Jul 8, 2008 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions
And Twenty-five cents please.............
............................................. pay up!
t
"You don't live by the jumpshot, you die by the jumpshot." ---Charles Barkley, 2/7/08
I said that booing isn't out of line
and gave a whole list of reasons why. I do feel like it’s beating a dead horse if you’re booing your own team, but some people are into that kind of thing. Moreover, I don’t think anyone at the game will give you a hard time for it. We’re in agreement that that’s not over the line. I would certainly hate if someone were to take this as a personal mission to go out and try and shut everyone being the least bit negative up.
As for JJ, he didn’t work out well for us, but are you saying the song wasn’t over the line?
because you don't think Jack was good
is that any reason to boo his return to Portland next year? That doesn’t make sense to me. You’re not literally saying you would or that people should boo him, but you seem to be saying that it’s okay and reasonable just because he wasn’t a great player.
I wouldn't
I wouldn’t boo Miles or Zach either. But I can understand why some people would.
Blazer Fan
by leeroyjenkins on Jul 8, 2008 8:09 PM PDT up reply actions
It's dumb
Jarrett played well enough for us to be of enough trade value to help us get Bayless without giving up a key piece. Thanks, Jarrett.
Other people don't have as much practice at being wrong as I do -- HT, timbo
by jscot on Jul 9, 2008 5:06 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Then why didn't your rec him?
"Man I want to rec it again." - pualo talking about jscot's long comment
One Time
My friend and I went to an Em’s game in Eugene. We got super trashed in the beer garden down the first base line. I don’t remember if we won the game or not, but I do remember walking home and seeing two guys wearing AquaSox jerseys. My buddy and I decided to mess with them, so we beat them up with some two by fours, we found at a house under construction. I just wish Blazer were as passionate as Eugene Emeralds fans.
"Man I want to rec it again." - pualo talking about jscot's long comment
How many times have you been in jail?
President of the Petteri Koponen fan club.
by Sabonis4Ever on Jul 9, 2008 10:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Only been arrested twice
Never actually locked up.
"Man I want to rec it again." - pualo talking about jscot's long comment
HAMSTERDANCE!!!
"You don't live by the jumpshot, you die by the jumpshot." ---Charles Barkley, 2/7/08
You over thinking the subject way too much. I’m just hope Blazers management doesn’t go around thinking about things like this all day. No one reports about the fans taunting old players when that team is one of the best in the league. Honestly I don’t know anyone that would taunt Jarrett Jack since we used him to make our team better. It would be more like an standing ovation for him playing well enough to make the Pacers want to trade Bayless to get him.
Also before you put a post like this on here use the enter key. Paragraphs are your friend.
Here is what I don't understand
Nowhere in this post do you explain what "crossing the line" is. What are you going to do when you are engaging in your usual supposed lighthearted ribbing of opponents and someone nudges you, squints his/her eyes at you, and says "dude"?
If you are ribbing the other team, you are opening the door for other people to do the same. Just because they follow your example in a way you disapprove of doesn’t mean you aren’t still setting an example. It’s simple really: just hold your tongue and be respectful of everyone or don’t tell other people what they can and cannot do.
And this is coming from someone who is never disrespectful to anyone in the Rose Garden.
BLZRS FRVR
Up to you dude
You’ve already pointed out my flawed moral reasoning and my absolute ignorance in the foundation of sports. That’s why I leave it up to a person of superior intelligence such as yourself. If you’ve never seen a crowd so over the line that it embarrasses the city than I really can’t tell you what it does. If you think ribbing another fan is over the line, have fun with that battle when you confront them. If you are OK watching the entire team put in an embarrassing spot, maybe a group of people decide next to throw beer on the players and you have a chance to stop it, and you employ your live and let live policy, than you can live with that. I’ll tell you what though, why don’t we use that policy with each other. I’m not real keen on someone calling me ignorant, and I’m not sure why you did.
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