Who's the best player in the NBA?
by hobobob on Jul 31, 2008 12:57 PM PDT
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PrintI'm sold. I was sold during the playoffs. Rajon Rondo is the best player today. Just kidding. But, Chris Paul is the best. He may not be as athletic, score as much, flash as much as Kobe, but he makes his team more betterer overall. He's also not as ugly as LBJ (kidding aside, the Hornets without Paul are worse than the Cavs without LBJ, that sounds scary so maybe it's real close).
Why do people call Kobe the best? Is it the big marketness? Past history? The idea that LBJ has to win a title before we can incorrectly call him the best?
Am I nuts? Paul is THEE guy that makes the Hornets so good. It's right there and no one gives him enough credit.
In the poll below, you'll have the oppurtunity to agree with me. Now, that's smart pilitickin'
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A legitamite case...
... can be made for LBJ, KB, KG, CP3 or Duncan.
If I have to choose a team to win a pickup game to save someone’s life, I’m taking Kobe with the first pick.
Boomshakalaka
If you're calling your own fouls,
I’m taking Artest
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
I think "best" means individual.
“Most valuable” needs to take into account what they do for their team, what kind of teammate they are, etc. etc. etc.
I think K*be is the best player in the league, but LeBron, CP3, and Garnett are the most valuable players in the league.
Jerryd Bayless has two emotions: Kill and Win.
"I think it’s going to be very beautiful game next year."
-Nicolas Batum
Isn't best a poorly defined term
Usually best is a term defined by value. It indicates the lesser or greater value of something with regard to something else. That said, the idea of using the term ‘best’ without also incorporating the idea of value is incomprehensible.
If you’re saying it’s a team V individual thing, then you have to ask whether Basketball players are playing a team or individual sport. The answer is obviously team as I defined the area acceptable to be the NBA. NBA basketball is a team sport, so the most valuable player should also be the best player, as that value determines the preference ordering that the term best describes.
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
Isn't that circular reasoning?
The best player is the one who has the most value. The most valuable player should also be the best player.
Sorry, but I don’t think it works that way. The “most valuable” player is the one who is the most indispensable – the player that a team simply can’t do without. The emotional leader, the guy who keeps others in line and makes his teammates better, the guy who is a locker-room leader as well as a leader on the court. Oh, and he has to be a pretty good player; if he wasn’t, the rest of the team wouldn’t listen to him. This is why KG and CP3 have to be considered in any “Most Valuable Player” talk.
When I think of the “best” player I think of it in the way that jksnake put it (with slight modification): who would you pick in a one-on-one match against any other player in the league, if your life depended on the outcome? I don’t know about you, but I’m picking Kobe ten times out of ten. He is the best basketball player in this league, but definitely not the most valuable.
Say there was a trade on the table – Kobe for LeBron, straight-up. LA would be crazy not to make that deal, but Cleveland would never touch it with a 12.0396-meter pole. Why? Because LeBron is more valuable. He’s a great teammate, and he’s led a crummy supporting cast deep into the playoffs despite his young age. Kobe is a better basketball player than LeBron at this moment, but LeBron is much, much more valuable.
Jerryd Bayless has two emotions: Kill and Win.
"I think it’s going to be very beautiful game next year."
-Nicolas Batum
by rockingharder on Jul 31, 2008 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions
It's not circular, it's functional
Best is a description and thus function of value which is a function and description for a host of other social goods and physical attributes we don’t have the time to define. It’s like shorthand for that thing over there represents more than any other thing all the goodness of a certain idea. Of course its relative.
I think (and if I say ‘you’re saying’ at any point I mean ‘I think’) you’re saying it’s a description and thus a function of talent and discipline (as much has been made of Kobe’s training regime). I think you’re metric is off because you consider players one on one, which is not what happens in the NBA.
If is say who’s the best player in the NBA, I don’t mean who in the NBA would be the best one on one player. That’s why when someone says who is the best player in the league, we ought to consider that in terms of what the league is (team basketball). It’s sort of nonsensical to take a player completely out of his relative situation and put him into a totally theoretical situation. That’s like saying if Shaq and Kobe played one one one but only had to take the ball out two feet from the rim with winners outs, Shaq’s the best. We’re talking NBA here. Not one on one.
I totally understand that some people mean that Kobe is the best one on one player who also plays in the NBA. What I am asking is not who is the best one on one player that also happens to play in the NBA. I’m asking who the best NBA player is.
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
i agree... kinda
I like the way you distinguish between “best” and “most valuable” player, but the best player isn’t necessarily the best guy in a one-on-one match, it’s the most talented player overall and Kobe is by far the most talented player in the NBA, hands down.. but i bet LBJ would beat him in a one-on-one game 8 times out of ten.
I think, no matter your definition, the “best” player debate is between Kobe and LBJ… MVP debate would include more names
once LBJ develops a consistent jump shot, no debate, he’s the best… but right now, Kobe has the edge
by The Dynasty on Jul 31, 2008 9:14 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I compare it to Duncan and KG
KG started with such a superior physical ability to Duncan, but arguably never maximized his talent (not a great post player, not as dependable), whereas Duncan is still a great athlete, but nowhere near KG, he just could not have been a better basketball player given his physical ability and genetics.
Lebron is like KG, only on a completely different level. There’s never been anyone in the NBA with anything close to his combination of size, strength and speed, but he has yet to maximize his basketball ability. Kobe, on the other hand, could not be a better player given his physical makeup. It’s too bad for Kobe that his ceiling is just lower, but until Lebron reaches or gets close to that ceiling, Kobe is the better player.
Duncan has 4 rings and so does Shaq
All the rest are pretenders (unless you really think Robert Horry was the best player on his teams).
As for me I think past is Bob Cousy or Bill Russell and present is KG and future is Greg Oden. Big men still rule.
Aldridge said. "We feel like we can beat any team. We feel like we can beat the Spurs, Suns, Lakers, Mavericks, whoever any night right now, and we'll still be here when those teams get old and their guys retire. We're going to be here for a long time."
Best seems to indicate who would win a game of one-on-one
However it doesn’t account for the fact that there is no way that CP3 is going to be able to ever hope to stop Shaq on the block
Chris Paul I of NBA?
Chris Paul Belmondo?
The son of Winston-Salem, i.e. tobacco and witches?.
The Demon Deacon?
Emmanuel? (NO link, sorry, this is a family site).
The Midnight Rambler
the answer to this question changes about every 6 months
but as of today here is my top 20 list:
1. lebron james. nobody could have taken the cavs as far as he has the last 2 years.
2. kobe bryant. i hate the guy but you cant argue with his talent
3. chris paul. the best point guard in the league and is still getting better
4. dwayne wade. just half a step behind lebron and kobe
5. kevin garnett. can guard any player in the league and score 20ppg.
6. carmelo anthony. maybe the best offensive player in the league
7. gilbert arenas. maybe the best offensive player in the league.
8. paul pierce. after this years playoffs be has become an elite player.
9. amare stoudemire. healthy and still unstoppable
10. yao ming. the best center in the league for at least one more year
11. deron williams. the 2nd best point guard in the league
12. tracy mcgrady. will finally win some playoffs series this year and get respect.
13. dirk nowitzki. good for 24ppg every year
14. dwight howard.
15. tim duncan
16. steve nash
17. brandon roy
18. michael redd
19. allen iverson
20. baron davis
by JamesHollywoodRobinson on Jul 31, 2008 1:48 PM PDT reply actions
tell that dude
to learn a post move that does not involve dunking and he will be moved up
Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.
Why shoot a jumper when you can stuff it anytime on anyone in the league other than Amare and Oden?
Krikey! Kiteboarding is Kewl!
There's a difference between can't and won't
I was a multiple time all star throughout my little league career. Won 5 championships- 4 in a row- thats more in a row than MJ… (kenwo4life@aol.com)
by Ozzie Montana on Jul 31, 2008 8:15 PM PDT up reply actions
If he won't guard bigs by your 6th year in the league
then he probably never will. There are plenty of athletic freaks out there who have sucked at defense. You could make the same argument about Dirk, Jefferson, or Z-Bo. Fact is, if you took the top ten bigs in the league, Amare would probably be the worst defender by far. Don’t forget that the reason people were in love with Bynum early in the season was that he had a couple games against the suns and wolves where he put up 30 and 15. If you’re Amare and you can’t get motivated to play defense against the lakers, and you haven’t been able to get motivated to play defense in the playoffs the past 3 years, maybe it’s not a motivation issue and that you’re just not good at defense.
melo, gilbert and redd are way too high
duncan and howard are too low. Some will say Nash is too low, but I disagree- his bad D takes away some of his offensive value.
Boomshakalaka
by jksnake99 on Jul 31, 2008 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
duncan...
...is in my opinion the best power forward ever, but he’s past his prime. I really dont think its a slight to be considered the 15th best player in the league. Obviously he is still very good just not what he was 3 years ago.
Howard right now is maybe the best athlete in the league but he cant shoot a 12 foot jump shot, and still commits stupid fouls. In 2 years he is gonna be the beast of the east with Oden the beast of the west.
Carmelo, Arenas and Redd along with Iverson, Baron and Dirk are all mediocre defensive players who all need offensive systems to run through them and need the ball in their hands constantly. Do I think they would fit in with every team in the league? NO. Are they great players? YES.
Dominique Wilkins is one of the best offensive players in the history of the game! Did he have major flaws in other parts of his game? YES.
Every time I read a nba article I see players get bashed because they have deficiencies in their game. People need to understand that not every player is MJ. MJ didnt have a weakness in his game but 99% of players do have weaknesses.
by JamesHollywoodRobinson on Jul 31, 2008 4:29 PM PDT up reply actions
i dont think you watched game 1 of the suns series.....
duncans still got it…..
lebron is the best though
by BroyTheTruth on Jul 31, 2008 7:02 PM PDT up reply actions
In terms of career legacy, you can count the number of guys
in Nba history who are even in the conversation with Duncan on less than 2 full hands. If not for Manu stupidly fouling Dirk on a layup when they were up 3 at the end of one of the deciding games in the series, and two HOFers taking roughly 80% paycuts to go ring chasing with the lakers in 04, we could’ve been looking at 5 straight titles for the spurs and 6 overall for Duncan. That’d put him alone in the conversation with Jordan and Russell.
Even more impressive was his performance in the 2003 playoffs. The spurs team had names that year, but none were even close to their primes. Parker was a 2nd year streaky PG, Manu was a rookie, Robinson was 37, Stephen Jackson was barely in the league, and then amazingly almost every Spur except Duncan played horribly in the playoffs. Of their top 6 guys in FGA for the playoffs, Duncan was the only one who shot over 42%, along with leading the spurs in boards and assists.
Not sure where I was going with this, but it’s ridiculous to think how good he’s really been over his career.
Nuggets were better last year
When Melo was on the bench. Very rare among perceived superstars on winning teams.
Bayless isn't the second coming of Jordan.
Jordan was the first coming of Bayless.
sorry
Gilbert Arenas at 7? sorry, I guess i have something against volume shooters with low FG% (40% last two seasons) and high turnover rate (3.3 career). I’d like to see Dwight Howard, Duncan and Amare a little higher, but decent list in general.
I agree with Paul
I’ve thought this guy was an absolute marvel from the day he first set foot on an NBA court. He has pretty much turned a disater of a team into a legit contender singlehandedly. West, Chandler, Peja are all nice pieces but without Paul they’d be the best players on just another NBA bottom feeder.
You could probably make the same case for LeBron whereas Kobe has shown that he needs at least one or two other stars around him to consistently produce wins for his team.
My main concern with Paul is his long term durability. Given his style of play and his rather slight build, he could wind up breaking down rather early on in his career. That’s why a lot of people are actually higher on Deron Williams than Paul. I don’t think Deron is anywhere near as good as Chris, but the guy is built like a Hummer. I can see him playing as an effective PG in this league for a much longer duration than Paul.
bron bron
the man has a step on any player in the world right now and wont be caught in the near future, the guy can and does do it all. write him into the top 5 of all time by the ned of his career.
Meh, I would have to disagree
Top 5, yes, definitely. Best PG, probably (though he doesn’t look good when matched up with guys like Parker and even DWill). I think this year’s MVP voting was pretty accurate in terms of who belongs in the top 5 right now.
Who do you want to take (and create) the final shot in a tied game with the clock running out? My money is on Kobe first, then on LeBron.
Can Chris Paul score 40 to lift his team over the top if required? Regularly? Doubtful. Kobe can. LeBron can. Duncan can. Wade and Nowitzki can at times. Or getting a combined score of 40+ when adding assists and points? Rarely, but it happened in the playoffs, so he has it in him and still can develop a lot.
Odenied: Coach, I promise I wasn't running hard ...
I'd take LBJ over Kobe for the last shot
but I’d rather not get there in the first place. I’m talking over all. I thought I saw Paul torch Parker this year. Maybe I was wrong. I didn’t see him have much trouble with Dwill either.
LBJ lifts his team. No question about that. But as much as Paul. I don’t know. Not saying you’re wrong, but I’d prefer to have Paul. It would be incredibly tough to pass up LBJ, but no sweat passing up Kobe.
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
LBJ had the best crunch-time stats in the league.
Because he’s the most unstoppable going to the rack.
Bayless isn't the second coming of Jordan.
Jordan was the first coming of Bayless.
Duncan
Is my number 1. I hate his I didnt do it coach face, but seriously. The man is beast on both ends of the court, gets respect from officials, is first team all defense every year, and every year we assume since we know he is the best at his position we don’t give him the credit he deserves.
best PF of ALL TIME.. hard to argue with that.
Best Offense = Therapist #8
Best Defense = Shane Battier
Best All Around = Timmy Duncan
in one man’s humble opinion.
Shaniqua don't live here no more... Is Shaniqua there, HELL NO!
by GreatOden'sRaven on Jul 31, 2008 2:23 PM PDT reply actions
ok that last sentence from paragraph one
was a hodgepodge of deleting and rewriting.. here is a better sentence.. should have previewed it first
Because we subconciously know he is good, and is never discussed unless we are playin the Spurs, we forget how good he is.
Shaniqua don't live here no more... Is Shaniqua there, HELL NO!
by GreatOden'sRaven on Jul 31, 2008 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions
i dont like this post ONE BIT
Go post this on NBA . com. . . this is a BLAZER’S Blog… Duh!
Best Player in the NBA= Brandon Roy
Sophia
Leaders build cultures that create self-esteem, generate and sustain trust, elevate the dignity of work , create community and foster open communication, and finally encourage growth and learning.
-Warren Bennis USC Professor
That was a very hard winter,
and it was just like one long night,
with me lying awake, waiting and waiting and waiting
for daybreak.
- Black Elk
1881
I wish I could say that
and maybe I can next year. But, right now, you’re only totally right, and I can’t believe I forgot.
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
Atta girl
Shaniqua don't live here no more... Is Shaniqua there, HELL NO!
by GreatOden'sRaven on Jul 31, 2008 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Lebron James is the best
Comparing Lebron’s finals team vs Paul’s WCF tema
Morris Petersen > Larry Hughes (especially considering Hughes was injured all the time a sucked when he did paly)
David West > Drew Gooden
Big Z = Chandler (not the same type of player but contribute about as much)
In reality Chris Paul had the better team and still lost the Spurs, only his team lasted to 7 games against a one year older Spurs team
Lebron > Chris Paul
White Russain: drink of choice of The Dude/ El Duderino
by McLovinVs.TheDude on Jul 31, 2008 2:32 PM PDT reply actions
dont forget...
you also have to factor in the relative strengths of the conferences. east < west….by a long shot. how far do you think lebrons cavs would have gone if they were in the power conference?
Jerome James?
Shaniqua don't live here no more... Is Shaniqua there, HELL NO!
by GreatOden'sRaven on Jul 31, 2008 3:06 PM PDT up reply actions
But he was perfect from the field and the line last year ;-)
That dude must have serious potential…
Least valuable in terms of money to performance maybe, though they have Starbury on that team. Just saying.
Odenied: Coach, I promise I wasn't running hard ...
PER says...
...that among players who played more than 6.09 minutes/game (weird cutoff, but whatever), the bottom 5 are:
320) Brian Scalabrine, Celtics
321) Casey Jacobsen, Grizzlies
322) Trenton Hassell, Nets
323) Jason Collins, Wolves
324) Bobby Jones, Knicks
Among all players, the worst last year were:
446) Cedric Simmons, Bulls
447) Demetris Nichols, Bulls
448) Billy Thomas, Cavs
450) Keith Langford, Spurs
451) Orien Greene, Kings
Boomshakalaka
I didn't even know half of these players were in the NBA
Odenied: Coach, I promise I wasn't running hard ...
maybe I should qualify more
I think we need someone who has been around for a while but keeps getting contracts and is still awful. Ostertagish, lets say.
So from your nice list we should pluck Scalabrine, Hassel, and one of the Collins’(why not both?)
Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.
who is the worst?
thats simple just pick any player who was coming off the bench in game# 82 for the miami heat last year. they had about 6 players who were average players in the nbdl !!!
by JamesHollywoodRobinson on Jul 31, 2008 5:58 PM PDT up reply actions
ricky davis
I dont care what the stats say, that guy brings down any team he plays for in no time. sure he can score, but at what cost?
I wouldn't say he is the worst, but he does wreck havoc on any team
Bill Simmons also claims him getting signed by the Clippers was responsible for the earthquake in LA this week. LOL
Odenied: Coach, I promise I wasn't running hard ...
LeBron is by far the best.
Oden/Pryz
LMA/Frye
WebFoot/Trout
Roy/Rudy
Blake/Bayless
**Champs 08-09**
by BigCelPhone on Jul 31, 2008 4:54 PM PDT reply actions
He's a genious, right?
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
Timbo may be a cantankerous old fart but he is certainly far from dumb.
"Besides, AnntheFan will be here any minute to #25 you." T Darkstar
Since myemic hasn't posted yet,
I’m gonna throw down a little Rudy love on his behalf.
As we all know, Rudy > MJ without playing a single game in the NBA! He’s gotta be the best!
Andy Roddick has the most wimbledon titles in the world. He just hides them in Federer's trophy case
KG is the 'more betterer' than all of them
I’d take KG right now if I had to choose sides in a one on one competition. KG is a phenomenal athlete and with his height makes him very imposing. This post actuallt turned out to one of the more betterer posts lately because it really makes us look closely at what it is that makes the ultimate player. The reason I didnt pick that other guy was because KG can always back him down and we all know character matters.
"Meow" --- My cat Bonzi suggesting my money would be better spent on albacore then a couple months of mindless TV from COMCAST.... at least until the season starts.
KG is the 'more betterer than all of them'
I’d take KG right now if I had first pick to choose sides in a one on one competition. KG is a phenomenal athlete and with his height makes him very imposing. This post actually turned out to be one of the more betterer posts lately because it really makes us look closely at what it is that makes the ultimate player. The reason I didnt pick that other guy was because KG can always back him down and we all know character matters.
"Meow" --- My cat Bonzi suggesting my money would be better spent on albacore then a couple months of mindless TV from COMCAST.... at least until the season starts.
Here's a formula
Hypothetical, of course. How much would a player improve the regular season win total of the average playoff team? i.e. how many more wins would CP3 mean to each of the 16 playoff teams. Average that out.
Why only playoff teams? We want to eliminate the effect of a gunner moving his team from 10 to 25 wins.
by Engineering Problem on Jul 31, 2008 10:19 PM PDT reply actions
That's a good idea and much more along the lines of what I was thinking
but math is hard, and I try to avoid thinking when possible. Hunches are the ticket. Any idea who the math shows as the best? Any idea how you figure out how much a player affected wins?
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
but position makes an impact at that point
would cp3 moving into dwill spot really increase there win total that much? but moving him over to maybee the lakrs might be a big improvement. oh wait.. thats why you said to average it out over all the playoff teams… oops
"Doing research= good
Making up things=bad."
---jksnake99
I think KG is the best
He is often overlooked because he doesn’t score as many points as Kobe or LeBron, and because he played on a relatively weak team for most of his career. However, he is an excellent defender, good rebounder, good passer, makes hustle plays, and is a 54% FG shooter. In my opinion, these good traits are enough to make up for his average (for an all-star) scoring volume.
wait,
You mean paul PIERCE, right? Oh, no? Oh yea, it doesn’t count if the only person who thinks he’s the best is HIM!
Andy Roddick has the most wimbledon titles in the world. He just hides them in Federer's trophy case
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